Originally posted by Zerogenum http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1372026.ece There are 1.5 million Palestinians imprisoned in the most heavily populated area in the world. Israel has stopped all trade. It has even forbidden fishermen to go far from the shore so they wade into the surf to try vainly to catch fish with hand-thrown nets.
Mute arguement. Israel isn't going anywhere. Any US citizen, that bitches about Israel occupying land, should head to the nearest Native American reservation and give away all their belongings. Then, they should buy a one way ticket back to the "Old World." Hard not to look silly when you're entire way of living is built on a foundation of genocide and occupation that makes the Israeli-Palestinian conflict look tame. It's easy to be a critic living on the fruits of slavery, genocide, and occupation that helped create and fuel the beginnings of the US. Yet, the Israelis are monsters for carving out a minute portion of the middle east (that they have historical and religious roots too) to call a nation. Go figure.
Originally posted by lardmouth Mute arguement. Israel isn't going anywhere. Any US citizen, that bitches about Israel occupying land, should head to their nearest Native American reservation and give away all their belongings. Then, they should buy a one way ticket back to the "Old World." Hard not to look silly when you're entire way of living is built on a foundation of genocide and occupation that makes the Israeli-Palestinian conflict look tame. It's easy to be a critic resting on the fruits of slavery, genocide, and occupation.
No thanks. But how about this once the world stops listening to you try to change the subject to "what about you"? What then?
Seriously If i could go back to the old world and be amongst my own I would. The old world was way more peaceful and a lot more decent. But the fact is the land we control was signed over to us (treaty of hidalgo and winning the war against the british).
Where as Israels history of coming into being was wrapped around illegal immigration, counterfeiting, bombing, terrorist organizations declaring war on the british and arabs and what not.
The situation is quite different.
Zerogenum - MixMatched BH Carbineer Template of the Gods, Kettemoor PRE CU SWG.
Yeah, the genocidal campaign against the Native American. The Slavery against blacks. Yes, it was different, it was far worse. And you can go back to the old world. Plenty of airports nowadays. Otherwise, you're content living on the fruits of occupation and slavery. Give over you property to a Native American family, and heck, an african american family. Lead by example and show those Israeli's how much better you are.
If you want to include reperations stop right there, lets count crime involved with that and reperations to victims families. Ever hear of liberia? Why not give them their freedom to lead themselves free of oppression? As for the native americans i have a few friends who are happy with their government checks, none of them hold grudges as far as I know.
Zerogenum - MixMatched BH Carbineer Template of the Gods, Kettemoor PRE CU SWG.
Originally posted by lardmouth I have a question for those who don't seem to believe Israel should exist at all. Are you prepared to have your nation accept the entire Israeli population as refugees for the sake of peace. After all, you can't seriously believe the muslims/arabs, that scream against the existence of Israel, want to swoop in and set up a democratic power sharing government that equally represents all partys. So, are you prepared to provide financial aid taking in Israeli refugees and getting them on their feet? Any volunteers?
We've done it before. But I don't really feel much sympathy for the Israeli's this time. It's not 1939 any more.
I don't see why the arabs that scream against the existance of Israel wouldn't want to see a different system of government there. I think everyone does.
I always get the impression that when these countries call for the destruction of Israel, that they are not calling for genocide. After all when we call for the destruction of North Korea that's not we mean is it? When we called for the destruction of Japan and Germany for example did we mean total annhilation, I don't think we did.
I think all this infammatory nonsense about calling for the destruction of Israel doesn't sound any less reasonable than calling for the destruction of Hamas, the PLO or Hezbollah.
So here's my question, when you say the "destruction of Israel", do you think they are talking about the complete genocide of all jews, or do you think they are tallking about the defeat of the jewish state. It's overthrow and the removal of its governance of that region?
Originally posted by baff Originally posted by lardmouth I have a question for those who don't seem to believe Israel should exist at all. Are you prepared to have your nation accept the entire Israeli population as refugees for the sake of peace. After all, you can't seriously believe the muslims/arabs, that scream against the existence of Israel, want to swoop in and set up a democratic power sharing government that equally represents all partys. So, are you prepared to provide financial aid taking in Israeli refugees and getting them on their feet? Any volunteers?
We've done it before. But I don't really feel much sympathy for the Israeli's this time. It's not 1939 any more.
I don't see why the arabs that scream against the existance of Israel wouldn't want to see a different system of government there. I think everyone does.
I always get the impression that when these countries call for the destruction of Israel, that they are not calling for genocide. After all when we call for the destruction of North Korea that's not we mean is it? When we called for the destruction of Japan and Germany for example did we mean total annhilation, I don't think we did.
I think all this infammatory nonsense about calling for the destruction of Israel doesn't sound any less reasonable than calling for the destruction of Hamas, the PLO or Hezbollah.
So here's my question, when you say the "destruction of Israel", do you think they are talking about the complete genocide of all jews, or do you think they are tallking about the defeat of the jewish state. It's overthrow and the removal of its governance of that region?
Hey, i dont want the israelis turning on us like they did the british. With the terrorism going on in the 40's
Zerogenum - MixMatched BH Carbineer Template of the Gods, Kettemoor PRE CU SWG.
Originally posted by baff Originally posted by lardmouth I have a question for those who don't seem to believe Israel should exist at all. Are you prepared to have your nation accept the entire Israeli population as refugees for the sake of peace. After all, you can't seriously believe the muslims/arabs, that scream against the existence of Israel, want to swoop in and set up a democratic power sharing government that equally represents all partys. So, are you prepared to provide financial aid taking in Israeli refugees and getting them on their feet? Any volunteers?
We've done it before. But I don't really feel much sympathy for the Israeli's this time. It's not 1939 any more.
I don't see why the arabs that scream against the existance of Israel wouldn't want to see a different system of government there. I think everyone does.
I always get the impression that when these countries call for the destruction of Israel, that they are not calling for genocide. After all when we call for the destruction of North Korea that's not we mean is it? When we called for the destruction of Japan and Germany for example did we mean total annhilation, I don't think we did.
I think all this infammatory nonsense about calling for the destruction of Israel doesn't sound any less reasonable than calling for the destruction of Hamas, the PLO or Hezbollah.
So here's my question, when you say the "destruction of Israel", do you think they are talking about the complete genocide of all jews, or do you think they are tallking about the defeat of the jewish state. It's overthrow and the removal of its governance of that region?
Meaning a complete and utter destruction of Israel. Hence their often repeated "drive the jews into the sea." They'd like to replace it with their Islamic caliphate. None but muslims should rule amongst the muslim empire. You can read up on the charters of Hamas and Hezbollah. Basically, they'd replace zionism with Islamism. In otherwords, any jew (or christian) allowed to live in that land (if they would be allowed to..) would have to do it under the strict fundamentalist interpretation of Islamic laws.
And Israel's ehud olmert says "We must ensure a jewish majority in Israel, or the very notion of a jewish state is void". And none but israelis should rule in the israeli empire?
Zerogenum - MixMatched BH Carbineer Template of the Gods, Kettemoor PRE CU SWG.
Originally posted by Zerogenum And Israel's ehud olmert says "We must ensure a jewish majority in Israel, or the very notion of a jewish state is void". And none but israelis should rule in the israeli empire?
Oh geeze, if such a thing bothered you, you have a hell of alot more Islamic nations to point a finger at for the same thing. At least, compared to one small Jewish nation. By the way, when was the last time the US (or say, the UK) elected a Black/hispanic/jewish/Native American/ Chinese/muslim, etc. to their highest office? Before you reply that there are some in cabinet or legislative positions...are they statistically represented numbers? And, just how many years of the Nation's existence had to pass before those inroads were made? Let me guess, because a Nation has been able to set and then defend it's borders through violence for a certain number (the US and European nations, for example) of generations they become unbound to the bloody history that shaped and enriched those nations? So then, how many years does Israel need to hold onto it's existence before they too can respond "Yeah, but those were our forefathers. It's not realistic to ask generations that had nothing to do with the bloody shaping of our nation to make reperations and hand over the land to the Arabs and muslims."
Seriously, how many generations before Israel get's to use the western nations' get of jail free card? I'd love to see the US and European citizens lead by example. Tear down their borders, make reperations, etc. I'd wager that not one nation would still stand. What nation's borders and riches haven't been forged and set through bloodshed, submission and exploitation of others, expulsion of aboriginal clans/tribes/goverments? Yet, through time and a number of generations we say "Well, that's the past and we can't seriously be expected to tear ourselves down to make up for it." Again, how many generations or years will Israel have to see before they too can claim the same defense of their existence?
Meaning a complete and utter destruction of Israel. Hence their often repeated "drive the jews into the sea." They'd like to replace it with their Islamic caliphate. None but muslims should rule amongst the muslim empire. You can read up on the charters of Hamas and Hezbollah. Basically, they'd replace zionism with Islamism. In otherwords, any jew (or christian) allowed to live in that land (if they would be allowed to..) would have to do it under the strict fundamentalist interpretation of Islamic laws.
Regime change, then.
In which case, they can go for it for all I care. Hamas and Hezbollah seem like a pretty decent bunch of people too. It makes no difference to me who rules.
What nation's borders and riches haven't been forged and set through bloodshed, submission and exploitation of others, expulsion of aboriginal clans/tribes/goverments? Yet, through time and a number of generations we say "Well, that's the past and we can't seriously be expected to tear ourselves down to make up for it." Again, how many generations or years will Israel have to see before they too can claim the same defense of their existence?
I'd say, at least one generation of NOT taking any more land from the palestinian owners (and I'm talking about personal ownership here, not territory of states). Yet, it seems that it is ongoing. The West Bank Barrier separates many palestinian farmers from their land so they cannot access it anymore. Construction is ongoing. If Israel stops that project now and treats the Palestinians fairly for a few decades, the conflict could be mostly defused.
Comments
Why?
Zerogenum - MixMatched BH Carbineer Template of the Gods, Kettemoor PRE CU SWG.
Seriously If i could go back to the old world and be amongst my own I would. The old world was way more peaceful and a lot more decent. But the fact is the land we control was signed over to us (treaty of hidalgo and winning the war against the british).
Where as Israels history of coming into being was wrapped around illegal immigration, counterfeiting, bombing, terrorist organizations declaring war on the british and arabs and what not.
The situation is quite different.
Zerogenum - MixMatched BH Carbineer Template of the Gods, Kettemoor PRE CU SWG.
Zerogenum - MixMatched BH Carbineer Template of the Gods, Kettemoor PRE CU SWG.
We've done it before. But I don't really feel much sympathy for the Israeli's this time. It's not 1939 any more.
I don't see why the arabs that scream against the existance of Israel wouldn't want to see a different system of government there. I think everyone does.
I always get the impression that when these countries call for the destruction of Israel, that they are not calling for genocide. After all when we call for the destruction of North Korea that's not we mean is it? When we called for the destruction of Japan and Germany for example did we mean total annhilation, I don't think we did.
I think all this infammatory nonsense about calling for the destruction of Israel doesn't sound any less reasonable than calling for the destruction of Hamas, the PLO or Hezbollah.
So here's my question, when you say the "destruction of Israel", do you think they are talking about the complete genocide of all jews, or do you think they are tallking about the defeat of the jewish state. It's overthrow and the removal of its governance of that region?
We've done it before. But I don't really feel much sympathy for the Israeli's this time. It's not 1939 any more.
I don't see why the arabs that scream against the existance of Israel wouldn't want to see a different system of government there. I think everyone does.
I always get the impression that when these countries call for the destruction of Israel, that they are not calling for genocide. After all when we call for the destruction of North Korea that's not we mean is it? When we called for the destruction of Japan and Germany for example did we mean total annhilation, I don't think we did.
I think all this infammatory nonsense about calling for the destruction of Israel doesn't sound any less reasonable than calling for the destruction of Hamas, the PLO or Hezbollah.
So here's my question, when you say the "destruction of Israel", do you think they are talking about the complete genocide of all jews, or do you think they are tallking about the defeat of the jewish state. It's overthrow and the removal of its governance of that region?
Hey, i dont want the israelis turning on us like they did the british. With the terrorism going on in the 40's
Zerogenum - MixMatched BH Carbineer Template of the Gods, Kettemoor PRE CU SWG.
We've done it before. But I don't really feel much sympathy for the Israeli's this time. It's not 1939 any more.
I don't see why the arabs that scream against the existance of Israel wouldn't want to see a different system of government there. I think everyone does.
I always get the impression that when these countries call for the destruction of Israel, that they are not calling for genocide. After all when we call for the destruction of North Korea that's not we mean is it? When we called for the destruction of Japan and Germany for example did we mean total annhilation, I don't think we did.
I think all this infammatory nonsense about calling for the destruction of Israel doesn't sound any less reasonable than calling for the destruction of Hamas, the PLO or Hezbollah.
So here's my question, when you say the "destruction of Israel", do you think they are talking about the complete genocide of all jews, or do you think they are tallking about the defeat of the jewish state. It's overthrow and the removal of its governance of that region?
Meaning a complete and utter destruction of Israel. Hence their often repeated "drive the jews into the sea." They'd like to replace it with their Islamic caliphate. None but muslims should rule amongst the muslim empire. You can read up on the charters of Hamas and Hezbollah. Basically, they'd replace zionism with Islamism. In otherwords, any jew (or christian) allowed to live in that land (if they would be allowed to..) would have to do it under the strict fundamentalist interpretation of Islamic laws.
And Israel's ehud olmert says "We must ensure a jewish majority in Israel, or the very notion of a jewish state is void". And none but israelis should rule in the israeli empire?
Zerogenum - MixMatched BH Carbineer Template of the Gods, Kettemoor PRE CU SWG.
Oh geeze, if such a thing bothered you, you have a hell of alot more Islamic nations to point a finger at for the same thing. At least, compared to one small Jewish nation. By the way, when was the last time the US (or say, the UK) elected a Black/hispanic/jewish/Native American/ Chinese/muslim, etc. to their highest office? Before you reply that there are some in cabinet or legislative positions...are they statistically represented numbers? And, just how many years of the Nation's existence had to pass before those inroads were made? Let me guess, because a Nation has been able to set and then defend it's borders through violence for a certain number (the US and European nations, for example) of generations they become unbound to the bloody history that shaped and enriched those nations? So then, how many years does Israel need to hold onto it's existence before they too can respond "Yeah, but those were our forefathers. It's not realistic to ask generations that had nothing to do with the bloody shaping of our nation to make reperations and hand over the land to the Arabs and muslims."
Seriously, how many generations before Israel get's to use the western nations' get of jail free card? I'd love to see the US and European citizens lead by example. Tear down their borders, make reperations, etc. I'd wager that not one nation would still stand. What nation's borders and riches haven't been forged and set through bloodshed, submission and exploitation of others, expulsion of aboriginal clans/tribes/goverments? Yet, through time and a number of generations we say "Well, that's the past and we can't seriously be expected to tear ourselves down to make up for it." Again, how many generations or years will Israel have to see before they too can claim the same defense of their existence?
Regime change, then.
In which case, they can go for it for all I care. Hamas and Hezbollah seem like a pretty decent bunch of people too. It makes no difference to me who rules.
Originally posted by lardmouth
What nation's borders and riches haven't been forged and set through bloodshed, submission and exploitation of others, expulsion of aboriginal clans/tribes/goverments? Yet, through time and a number of generations we say "Well, that's the past and we can't seriously be expected to tear ourselves down to make up for it." Again, how many generations or years will Israel have to see before they too can claim the same defense of their existence?
I'd say, at least one generation of NOT taking any more land from the palestinian owners (and I'm talking about personal ownership here, not territory of states). Yet, it seems that it is ongoing.
The
West Bank Barrier
separates many palestinian farmers from their land so they cannot access it anymore. Construction is ongoing. If Israel stops that project now and treats the Palestinians fairly for a few decades, the conflict could be mostly defused.