Because Time sinks do not make a game more challenging... they are just time sinks.
Not everyone has no job and can play MMO's all day long.
I'm late to join the crowd (my posting forays on MMORPG.com are sporadic) but I'll voice my views.
Not every little challenging thing in an MMO is a time sink. Time sink is just what the whiners group it all under. These ideas are in a game to improve the game, give players a focus, maximise immersion or just prevent problems from occuring. Sometimes they are placed and make the game harder but the hardness is more often than not and offshoot of the desired reason.
No Auction House/Bazaar style economy avoids the problems of mudflation.
No insta-travel avoids the problems of over-frantic levelling and everywhere seeming like just around the corner.
Trivial Loot Code (TLC) avoids the problems of farming and, again, mudflation in game by restricting the occurances of lower level items flooding the market place.
They are all in for a reason. Whether or not you feel they make the game harder is your own personal opinion. I don't feel it is any harder to search a limited economically divided area for an item I may want than it is to run into a bazaar, open a UI window type the name of the item I want. It is less convenient, for sure, but not harder. No one ever lost out from having to put a little effort into something. As yet we don't even know how much effort that will be.
To have to ride from New Targonor to Bordinar's Cleft is no harder than having a gryphon or a portal to take you there. It is just less convenient. It is also more realistic and fun to have to do something yourself...in my eyes at least.
I can not help but think that the people who find these examples 'hard' suffer from an extended case of laziness. Either that or life and a long list of convenient MMO titles have taught them that everything should be easily gotten. Newsflash: the more you have to do then the more satisfaction you gain from doing it...a hard fought football game that you win narrowly, a long worked over essay that gets you higher marks...etc etc. You work hard you get rewards that scale.
Originally posted by holifeet Not every little challenging thing in an MMO is a time sink. Time sink is just what the whiners group it all under. These ideas are in a game to improve the game, give players a focus, maximise immersion or just prevent problems from occuring. Sometimes they are placed and make the game harder but the hardness is more often than not and offshoot of the desired reason.
I am not against making things harder in general, on the contrary, any elegant hardship is welcome now and then. But corpse run or lack or search functions or endless, hour-long travels to meet your friends is not hard, its pointless.
No Auction House/Bazaar style economy avoids the problems of mudflation.
Yes. As death penality has freed USA or China from murder and rape. Sorry, but I think it is better to encourage and reward GOOD behavior than punishing bad, especially in a game.
No insta-travel avoids the problems of over-frantic levelling and everywhere seeming like just around the corner.
You have a problem with what other people do, huh? If ppl power-level, so what`? I dont like power levelling myself, so we are on the same side in this question. But this is overdoing it again, as long travel prevents many other GOOD things. If a friend wants to join and has only an hour or so time, walking all over the continent is just plain silly. There are many far more simple and elegant solutions to prevent power levelling, EQ2 has some of them, like the Vitality. I prefer more clever solutions over beating people for every "inappropriate" behavior.
It is less convenient, for sure, but not harder. No one ever lost out from having to put a little effort into something.
I agree 100%. But WHY should a game be inconvenient in trivial things? I want to spent as much time as possible in fighting, adventure, grouping and quests, so EVERYTHING else that takes is time away is an unwanted distraction.
To have to ride from New Targonor to Bordinar's Cleft is no harder than having a gryphon or a portal to take you there. It is just less convenient. It is also more realistic and fun to have to do something yourself...in my eyes at least.
Often in WOW I went on foot or horse because I too enjoyed it. But out of free will, when *I* decided to do it, not someone forced me.
I can not help but think that the people who find these examples 'hard' suffer from an extended case of laziness. Either that or life and a long list of convenient MMO titles have taught them that everything should be easily gotten. Newsflash: the more you have to do then the more satisfaction you gain from doing it...a hard fought football game that you win narrowly, a long worked over essay that gets you higher marks...etc etc. You work hard you get rewards that scale.
I already have a hard work, thanks, I dont need a 2nd. It pays ME, not the other way around as in a MMO. I understand and share your last point about the football game. BUT: the game inside Vanguard is the adventure, the fighting, not the long, boring walk, not the endless hours because I am lost in the landscape or in the auction house lists. I want to fight the monsters, not the interface.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Originally posted by Blackmoor Better AI = More challenge plain and simple. But rather than spending time coding AI better than a box of rocks , note i said time there ,, not technology. The tech is there for decent AI , that has been proven in games already , although very rarely. Mostly they just go for the dumber than a box of rocks approach.
The boys and men comment ,,get a grip on reality please. Death penalties don't seperate anyone besides people who are willing to deal with them vs people who aren't. Nothing more , and nothing less.
It is called a death penalty for a reason ,, it's a penalty , not some sort of perverted challenge. It is a penalty for failing , messing up , being an idiot , being unlucky, having lag , having isp problems , etc. No challenge at all to it , that is pure penalty.
Challenge is a nasty fight where you have to pull out your entire bag of tricks to survive. Challenge is getting the perfect pull , or getting in a stun at the right time , or a well timed heal, or dealing with the unexpected.
Ok mate, we are arguing over the meaning of "challenge". If you want to be anal about the meaning of the word, your reasons are better than mine for sure.
But I think we are using the word "challenge" as a loose word. For me it is more challenging trying to stay alive by thinking more carefully what I am doing, than just clicking the attack button on everything that moves, like it happens in other games.
For me that's an extra challenge which justify having the death penalty as a deterrent.
You can think it differently, I respect your point of view because it is a valid one, but my reasons make sense too.
Originally posted by ste2000 Originally posted by Blackmoor Better AI = More challenge plain and simple. But rather than spending time coding AI better than a box of rocks , note i said time there ,, not technology. The tech is there for decent AI , that has been proven in games already , although very rarely. Mostly they just go for the dumber than a box of rocks approach.
The boys and men comment ,,get a grip on reality please. Death penalties don't seperate anyone besides people who are willing to deal with them vs people who aren't. Nothing more , and nothing less.
It is called a death penalty for a reason ,, it's a penalty , not some sort of perverted challenge. It is a penalty for failing , messing up , being an idiot , being unlucky, having lag , having isp problems , etc. No challenge at all to it , that is pure penalty.
Challenge is a nasty fight where you have to pull out your entire bag of tricks to survive. Challenge is getting the perfect pull , or getting in a stun at the right time , or a well timed heal, or dealing with the unexpected.
Ok mate, we are arguing over the meaning of "challenge". If you want to be anal about the meaning of the word, your reasons are better than mine for sure.
But I think we are using the word "challenge" as a loose word. For me it is more challenging trying to stay alive by thinking more carefully what I am doing, than just clicking the attack button on everything that moves, like it happens in other games.
For me that's an extra challenge which justify having the death penalty as a deterrent.
You can think it differently, I respect your point of view because it is a valid one, but my reasons make sense too. People need to stop kidding themselves, these games are often prupsoely purposely neutered of "challenge". The AI is not dumb because of laziness or computing power. It is a purposeful design choice.
Easy example, about 6 months after release the Guild Wars devs altered mob behavior so that after a certain threshold of AOE damage mobs would scatter, ie. act "intelliengtly" to minimize the damage. This is easy to implement and since it just about one variable and an "if" statement, or in other words a very simple heuristic, it would be a negligable amount of computing burden.
These games do not have features like the above mentioned thing becase they upset people. I remember elementalists (mages basically) crying about it ruining their favorite farm build. I remember mentioning to people in the my old WoW guild and they were like "Aw man that would be a pain". The "challenge" of these games is often seriously and purposely dumbed down in particular ways.
Seriously no one should be kidding themselves. They are holding your hands and patting you on the head and telling you that you are "special".
You can think it differently, I respect your point of view because it is a valid one, but my reasons make sense too.
Ok mate, we are arguing over the meaning of "challenge". If you want to be anal about the meaning of the word, your reasons are better than mine for sure.
But I think we are using the word "challenge" as a loose word. For me it is more challenging trying to stay alive by thinking more carefully what I am doing, than just clicking the attack button on everything that moves, like it happens in other games.
For me that's an extra challenge which justify having the death penalty as a deterrent.
I wouldn't call it anal so much as your view is just unthinkable to me. Playing smart and not dying to me falls under "not playing like an idiot". It has its own rewards , faster advancement , less downtime, less headaches, etc. Regardless as much as you slam WOW about nothing having death penalties they do ,, not as harsh as some games but penalties none the less.
Gestalt
Yeah dumb AI is a design choice ,, but i still see it as more of cost choice than anything else. Look at how MMO's have gone when it comes to freedom from when EQ originally came out. They have become more and more focused , raids with pretty much one or maybe 2 tactics you can use , so that they don't have to spend the time or effort thinking of different ways mobs may be fought or having to code better AI to deal with it.
I wouldn't call it anal so much as your view is just unthinkable to me. Playing smart and not dying to me falls under "not playing like an idiot". It has its own rewards , faster advancement , less downtime, less headaches, etc. Regardless as much as you slam WOW about nothing having death penalties they do ,, not as harsh as some games but penalties none the less.
Gestalt
Yeah dumb AI is a design choice ,, but i still see it as more of cost choice than anything else. Look at how MMO's have gone when it comes to freedom from when EQ originally came out. They have become more and more focused , raids with pretty much one or maybe 2 tactics you can use , so that they don't have to spend the time or effort thinking of different ways mobs may be fought or having to code better AI to deal with it.
But what incentive does WoW give you not to die? It gives you the incentive that you don't have to take out 5 minutes to run back to your corpse. Is that not a timesink?
Not dieing in vanguard will have the same rewards. It will also have the reward that you don't suffer expereince penalties, a much greater incentive not to die in my opinion.
Running to my corpse in WoW felt meaningless, it felt like I might as well have been just transported back to my corpse. It felt like it really was a timesink because that was all that was associated with death. I felt like I was being bored unnecesarily. In EQ I felt like I was being punished and I had an incentive to avoid it. There was also a game involved with getting back to my corpse because I couldn't just run there unseen. Corpse runs were one of my more enjoyable areas of EQ...they promoted teamwork. WoW, itself, didn't promote teamwork in its very identity.
That is why I like the death penalty in Vanguard. It will add some meaning to a corpse run, rather than a boring run back to the dungeon. It will promote more conscientious gameplay from more people and promote community because teamwork will be required to avoid death.
Ok so there is a severity difference in death penalties bewteen MMO's ,,what a shocking revalation.
I simply stated that WOW had a death penalty. Still doesn't do anything for helping clear up why anyone would want to play like an idiot in the first place unless its a deliberate choice.
And now for the smackdown,, Yeah the death penalty in EQ sure did keep all the people from training over the top of other people. Not to mention the kill stealing , spawn jumping etc etc. What a great community! And umm isn't teamwork required to avoid death in pretty much every mmo where you group so that you can avoid death? This is another one of those things that I just take as a given.
People keep raving about death penalties like it some sort of cure vs stupidity in MMO's. It isn't , it just adds more time to get from level a to level b. The idiots , the lazy , the skill less , they still get to point b , it just takes more time ( or less time in some cases). A much better fix in my books is still better AI , make the actual game a challenge.
One problem has always been that some deaths are due to reasons not in the player's control (i.e. computer failures, internet d/c, server crash) You can even argue that random gang ganks are are somewhat out of someone's control. I enjoy a challenging game. I don't prefer to lose experience over dying though, maybe fame and repuation, but experience in a skill based system or level base system, nah.
Corpse retrieval should be reasonable, but not too simple for the player otherwise there is not risk.
I think i had the most fun ever in playing eq1, it kept me busy for about 5 years because there was just so much to do. It took me forever to get the max lvl and then you had the aa you could learn, and i only knew 1 person who got every aa (because she never got off the game). The death penalty I liked because it added in a sense of danger which made it fun for me. I played wow in beta and up until this last spring, yes i was in a heavy raiding guild and im not going to bash the game because it was an awesome game. But you dont have to worry about dying and that part of the game i was dissapointed. Also remember that you didnt lose all your xp at high level you should have ALWAYS been recieving a rez which reduced the xp loss.
If there wasnt a death penalty we would never have had the "Has anybody here seen my corpse?" Movie
Originally posted by Stellos One problem has always been that some deaths are due to reasons not in the player's control (i.e. computer failures, internet d/c, server crash) You can even argue that random gang ganks are are somewhat out of someone's control. I enjoy a challenging game. I don't prefer to lose experience over dying though, maybe fame and repuation, but experience in a skill based system or level base system, nah. Corpse retrieval should be reasonable, but not too simple for the player otherwise there is not risk.
Some of those things are within the player control and some are not within the devs control. Generally it is a push on things like server crashes as we all get a shot at that. Same goes with some things like ISP problems.
I feel that using this as an excuse just gives people the option to not take care of things they might not otherwise take care of. If you have issues with your computer and the game punishes you, you will either quit the game or get it fixed. It's annoying that people keep using this excuse to keep companies from trying use certain gaming challenges.
No time to play game. Fine. We care? Nop. Some one forcing you to play this game? Nop. But becouse you don't have life and will jump from forum to forum and trash the game that you don't like.
Lol I really don't understand these ppl. I mean... If I don't like some game I just stop fallowing it and wait for something new. I don't think of how many things will be done in wrong way. I don't care.
Jeez. Oh and btw newb these are MMOs... They take time. I think some SP games would work better for you.
Every time I read your post, I die a little inside...
And for all the people that are complaining about the corpse retreivals, I have read somewhere that they are giving you options of what you want to do. Altars as they explained it, where you pay coin to get all your items back, or you have the option to do your own corpse run. I personally dont like this because everyone would take an easy way out, depending on how much coin you need to re-buy your items back though I suppose.
There is nothing better in my opinion than making your way through a dangerous area, with xp and items to lose to really get the blood pumping.
EQ1 zones were very dangerous and very challenging.
With WoW I found myself running through zones without a care.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Funny this always comes up. If people don't like a challenge, don't like working with risk and want everything handed to you with nothing to lose then please don't play Vanguard, go play WoW. WoW is for those who want no risk or challenge involved in thier game play.
I for one won't miss all of the "easy" mode players who cry about not having any time to play and cry louder when things are to hard to do.
If you don't like what you see then don't play.........please.
Death penalty of any sort will lead to complaints from those who die a lot, or just dont like having any disadvantage from playing bad, taking risks and failing, or just plain going AFK in the middle of a battlefield.
If you introduce item decay, people will complain about their precious, hard-to-get items not lasting forever.
If you use exp penalty, its harsh on those with little time, where 1 death equals the work of a week lost. It also means people wont like to group up as much, as a bad player can ruin YOUR experience.
If you dont have any death penalty, everyone will be able to attain everything, just given time, since you never go backwards, and nothing is out of reach.
In the end, personally I believe in massive temporary penalties, like 20 minutes of half stats, and/or massive repair costs, leading to another money sink ingame. Exp loss never made much sense to me for various reasons, and also tends not to go well with community. corpse runs, on the other hand, are a great way of giving people a sense of threat in areas too high level for them.
Peeps complain about that cuz they have been spoon fed everything anymore, every game after the age of corpse hunting and loseing xp they have spoon fed the newbiest crap ever. The last ooohh 4 MMOs have jsut gave you everything, and barely had to do jack SHEET to get anything...AKA Newbish Casual MMOs AKA easy as SHEET to play. I find all those games so dang boring cuz i have done everything you can do in a month. There never was soooooooooo much whinning and complain then as there is now. All the games spoiled you new peeps so much that you expected that every mmo was like that. Now that some games have broiught back that traditional way of play you hate it and complain
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth Because Time sinks do not make a game more challenging... they are just time sinks.Not everyone has no job and can play MMO's all day long.
Translation: /whineOn "I want easy mode, I don't want to have to think to play a game, I don't want to be careful, I don't want to have to avoid dieing, I don't want to earn anything with smart play, I don't want to wait for anything, and everything should be handed to me!"
If you want easy-mode, go play WoW... this is obviously not the game for you...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Originally posted by Cydone Contrast is why. If you havent felt loss in your life, you will die a very unsatisfied man, cos you will never know what you realy had! Instead of playing for 3 month and quitting, you can now play for 2 years. you should be happy!, but I guess you arent able to be satisfied..
Feeling loss in a video game is far different from loss in real life. In a video game all you lose is time. For myself, time is far too valuable to lose in a video game. If the developers are too lazy to provide content and would rather make a player retread ground they have already been through, then my time and money is better spent elsewhere.
Originally posted by metalcore In my opinion its fear that makes it more fun.
That's right, the challenge comes from fear, fear to lose stuff or levels if you go in a fight unprepaired. Prepairing yourself for a fight , making the changes to lose as little as possible, that's the fun part of an mmo.
Do not whine about these things in Vanguard if you do not like it (I do understand that not everyone has the time to prepare themselfes this good, or just wanna go play and fight without thinking), there are lots of games that have the instant gradification factor (for example wow) where you just can log in and start unprepaired. But if people start whining here Vanguard will be going the same way as SWG and we do NOT want that. We have waited a long time already for a game like Vanguard that has some penalties and has prolly some uber weapons; for me the penalties could be higher and the weapons more uber but I like the fact that Vanguard has found a compromis between hardcore and regular gamers.
So let's all just play and let the devs do their job!!
Why are you guys questionning the game design/vision when you know it's gonna be like that ? Why is it such a big deal ? Because you would like to play vanguard ?
I really don't get it... In this game, this is how it works.... why do you want to "change" it ?
Yes, it's a game... but it's about time we finally get one that makes us scared of dying.
There is no exp loss, corpse retrieval will probably be pretty easy. Welcome to MMORPGs after WoW has proven EQ style games won't be a smashing success with competition.
If you have any questions please ask. I have moved on to WoW from eq and no longer have any desire to play a dead game. Thank you. (posted by another selling his account in EQ1)
Comments
They're not reanimating EQ1. They are using EQ1 as an inspiration, or how EQ1 was when it was just EQ. That is very different to reanimating EQ.
Every single MMO that is in existence draws its inspiration from another MMO, even if the developers say they don't.
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Not every little challenging thing in an MMO is a time sink. Time sink is just what the whiners group it all under. These ideas are in a game to improve the game, give players a focus, maximise immersion or just prevent problems from occuring. Sometimes they are placed and make the game harder but the hardness is more often than not and offshoot of the desired reason.
No Auction House/Bazaar style economy avoids the problems of mudflation.
No insta-travel avoids the problems of over-frantic levelling and everywhere seeming like just around the corner.
Trivial Loot Code (TLC) avoids the problems of farming and, again, mudflation in game by restricting the occurances of lower level items flooding the market place.
They are all in for a reason. Whether or not you feel they make the game harder is your own personal opinion. I don't feel it is any harder to search a limited economically divided area for an item I may want than it is to run into a bazaar, open a UI window type the name of the item I want. It is less convenient, for sure, but not harder. No one ever lost out from having to put a little effort into something. As yet we don't even know how much effort that will be.
To have to ride from New Targonor to Bordinar's Cleft is no harder than having a gryphon or a portal to take you there. It is just less convenient. It is also more realistic and fun to have to do something yourself...in my eyes at least.
I can not help but think that the people who find these examples 'hard' suffer from an extended case of laziness. Either that or life and a long list of convenient MMO titles have taught them that everything should be easily gotten. Newsflash: the more you have to do then the more satisfaction you gain from doing it...a hard fought football game that you win narrowly, a long worked over essay that gets you higher marks...etc etc. You work hard you get rewards that scale.
.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
If you want to be anal about the meaning of the word, your reasons are better than mine for sure.
But I think we are using the word "challenge" as a loose word.
For me it is more challenging trying to stay alive by thinking more carefully what I am doing, than just clicking the attack button on everything that moves, like it happens in other games.
For me that's an extra challenge which justify having the death penalty as a deterrent.
You can think it differently, I respect your point of view because it is a valid one, but my reasons make sense too.
If you want to be anal about the meaning of the word, your reasons are better than mine for sure.
But I think we are using the word "challenge" as a loose word.
For me it is more challenging trying to stay alive by thinking more carefully what I am doing, than just clicking the attack button on everything that moves, like it happens in other games.
For me that's an extra challenge which justify having the death penalty as a deterrent.
You can think it differently, I respect your point of view because it is a valid one, but my reasons make sense too.
People need to stop kidding themselves, these games are often prupsoely purposely neutered of "challenge". The AI is not dumb because of laziness or computing power. It is a purposeful design choice.
Easy example, about 6 months after release the Guild Wars devs altered mob behavior so that after a certain threshold of AOE damage mobs would scatter, ie. act "intelliengtly" to minimize the damage. This is easy to implement and since it just about one variable and an "if" statement, or in other words a very simple heuristic, it would be a negligable amount of computing burden.
These games do not have features like the above mentioned thing becase they upset people. I remember elementalists (mages basically) crying about it ruining their favorite farm build. I remember mentioning to people in the my old WoW guild and they were like "Aw man that would be a pain". The "challenge" of these games is often seriously and purposely dumbed down in particular ways.
Seriously no one should be kidding themselves. They are holding your hands and patting you on the head and telling you that you are "special".
If you want to be anal about the meaning of the word, your reasons are better than mine for sure.
But I think we are using the word "challenge" as a loose word.
For me it is more challenging trying to stay alive by thinking more carefully what I am doing, than just clicking the attack button on everything that moves, like it happens in other games.
For me that's an extra challenge which justify having the death penalty as a deterrent.
I wouldn't call it anal so much as your view is just unthinkable to me. Playing smart and not dying to me falls under "not playing like an idiot". It has its own rewards , faster advancement , less downtime, less headaches, etc. Regardless as much as you slam WOW about nothing having death penalties they do ,, not as harsh as some games but penalties none the less.
Gestalt
Yeah dumb AI is a design choice ,, but i still see it as more of cost choice than anything else. Look at how MMO's have gone when it comes to freedom from when EQ originally came out. They have become more and more focused , raids with pretty much one or maybe 2 tactics you can use , so that they don't have to spend the time or effort thinking of different ways mobs may be fought or having to code better AI to deal with it.
I wouldn't call it anal so much as your view is just unthinkable to me. Playing smart and not dying to me falls under "not playing like an idiot". It has its own rewards , faster advancement , less downtime, less headaches, etc. Regardless as much as you slam WOW about nothing having death penalties they do ,, not as harsh as some games but penalties none the less.
Gestalt
Yeah dumb AI is a design choice ,, but i still see it as more of cost choice than anything else. Look at how MMO's have gone when it comes to freedom from when EQ originally came out. They have become more and more focused , raids with pretty much one or maybe 2 tactics you can use , so that they don't have to spend the time or effort thinking of different ways mobs may be fought or having to code better AI to deal with it.
But what incentive does WoW give you not to die? It gives you the incentive that you don't have to take out 5 minutes to run back to your corpse. Is that not a timesink?
Not dieing in vanguard will have the same rewards. It will also have the reward that you don't suffer expereince penalties, a much greater incentive not to die in my opinion.
Running to my corpse in WoW felt meaningless, it felt like I might as well have been just transported back to my corpse. It felt like it really was a timesink because that was all that was associated with death. I felt like I was being bored unnecesarily. In EQ I felt like I was being punished and I had an incentive to avoid it. There was also a game involved with getting back to my corpse because I couldn't just run there unseen. Corpse runs were one of my more enjoyable areas of EQ...they promoted teamwork. WoW, itself, didn't promote teamwork in its very identity.
That is why I like the death penalty in Vanguard. It will add some meaning to a corpse run, rather than a boring run back to the dungeon. It will promote more conscientious gameplay from more people and promote community because teamwork will be required to avoid death.
.
I simply stated that WOW had a death penalty. Still doesn't do anything for helping clear up why anyone would want to play like an idiot in the first place unless its a deliberate choice.
And now for the smackdown,, Yeah the death penalty in EQ sure did keep all the people from training over the top of other people. Not to mention the kill stealing , spawn jumping etc etc. What a great community! And umm isn't teamwork required to avoid death in pretty much every mmo where you group so that you can avoid death? This is another one of those things that I just take as a given.
People keep raving about death penalties like it some sort of cure vs stupidity in MMO's. It isn't , it just adds more time to get from level a to level b. The idiots , the lazy , the skill less , they still get to point b , it just takes more time ( or less time in some cases). A much better fix in my books is still better AI , make the actual game a challenge.
One problem has always been that some deaths are due to reasons not in the player's control (i.e. computer failures, internet d/c, server crash) You can even argue that random gang ganks are are somewhat out of someone's control. I enjoy a challenging game. I don't prefer to lose experience over dying though, maybe fame and repuation, but experience in a skill based system or level base system, nah.
Corpse retrieval should be reasonable, but not too simple for the player otherwise there is not risk.
I think i had the most fun ever in playing eq1, it kept me busy for about 5 years because there was just so much to do. It took me forever to get the max lvl and then you had the aa you could learn, and i only knew 1 person who got every aa (because she never got off the game). The death penalty I liked because it added in a sense of danger which made it fun for me. I played wow in beta and up until this last spring, yes i was in a heavy raiding guild and im not going to bash the game because it was an awesome game. But you dont have to worry about dying and that part of the game i was dissapointed. Also remember that you didnt lose all your xp at high level you should have ALWAYS been recieving a rez which reduced the xp loss.
If there wasnt a death penalty we would never have had the "Has anybody here seen my corpse?" Movie
Some of those things are within the player control and some are not within the devs control. Generally it is a push on things like server crashes as we all get a shot at that. Same goes with some things like ISP problems.
I feel that using this as an excuse just gives people the option to not take care of things they might not otherwise take care of. If you have issues with your computer and the game punishes you, you will either quit the game or get it fixed. It's annoying that people keep using this excuse to keep companies from trying use certain gaming challenges.
No time to play game. Fine. We care? Nop. Some one forcing you to play this game? Nop. But becouse you don't have life and will jump from forum to forum and trash the game that you don't like.
Lol I really don't understand these ppl. I mean... If I don't like some game I just stop fallowing it and wait for something new. I don't think of how many things will be done in wrong way. I don't care.
Jeez. Oh and btw newb these are MMOs... They take time. I think some SP games would work better for you.
Because NOT dying is a challenge.
eqnext.wikia.com
In my opinion its fear that makes it more fun.
There is nothing better in my opinion than making your way through a dangerous area, with xp and items to lose to really get the blood pumping.
EQ1 zones were very dangerous and very challenging.
With WoW I found myself running through zones without a care.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Funny this always comes up. If people don't like a challenge, don't like working with risk and want everything handed to you with nothing to lose then please don't play Vanguard, go play WoW. WoW is for those who want no risk or challenge involved in thier game play.
I for one won't miss all of the "easy" mode players who cry about not having any time to play and cry louder when things are to hard to do.
If you don't like what you see then don't play.........please.
Death penalty of any sort will lead to complaints from those who die a lot, or just dont like having any disadvantage from playing bad, taking risks and failing, or just plain going AFK in the middle of a battlefield.
If you introduce item decay, people will complain about their precious, hard-to-get items not lasting forever.
If you use exp penalty, its harsh on those with little time, where 1 death equals the work of a week lost. It also means people wont like to group up as much, as a bad player can ruin YOUR experience.
If you dont have any death penalty, everyone will be able to attain everything, just given time, since you never go backwards, and nothing is out of reach.
In the end, personally I believe in massive temporary penalties, like 20 minutes of half stats, and/or massive repair costs, leading to another money sink ingame. Exp loss never made much sense to me for various reasons, and also tends not to go well with community. corpse runs, on the other hand, are a great way of giving people a sense of threat in areas too high level for them.
Translation: /whineOn "I want easy mode, I don't want to have to think to play a game, I don't want to be careful, I don't want to have to avoid dieing, I don't want to earn anything with smart play, I don't want to wait for anything, and everything should be handed to me!"
If you want easy-mode, go play WoW... this is obviously not the game for you...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
That's right, the challenge comes from fear, fear to lose stuff or levels if you go in a fight unprepaired. Prepairing yourself for a fight , making the changes to lose as little as possible, that's the fun part of an mmo.
Do not whine about these things in Vanguard if you do not like it (I do understand that not everyone has the time to prepare themselfes this good, or just wanna go play and fight without thinking), there are lots of games that have the instant gradification factor (for example wow) where you just can log in and start unprepaired. But if people start whining here Vanguard will be going the same way as SWG and we do NOT want that. We have waited a long time already for a game like Vanguard that has some penalties and has prolly some uber weapons; for me the penalties could be higher and the weapons more uber but I like the fact that Vanguard has found a compromis between hardcore and regular gamers.
So let's all just play and let the devs do their job!!
Why are you guys questionning the game design/vision when you know it's gonna be like that ? Why is it such a big deal ? Because you would like to play vanguard ?
I really don't get it... In this game, this is how it works.... why do you want to "change" it ?
Yes, it's a game... but it's about time we finally get one that makes us scared of dying.
eqnext.wikia.com
If you have any questions please ask. I have moved on to WoW from eq and no longer have any desire to play a dead game. Thank you. (posted by another selling his account in EQ1)
That what I do.
Yay!