I use to LOVE dying and having to run back to where I died to get my corpse. However - in recent times - dying and then losing a crap load of exp. (i.e. hell levels in EQ - dying at level 30 with 90% exp. to 31 made you go back down to about 5% exp.) is pointless. If I spent hours upon hours of reaching a level and then I died and lost all of that work due to simple 'lag', I'd be more than likely to quit after so many times...
Think of this though - DAoC had a /release system. You could lose exp., but not lose any levels. Imagine dying, losing a little bit of exp., then releasing and losing twice as much exp. AND your corpse. Now imagine when you get to your corpse you get half of the exp lost back yet you still had a debt. of exp (i.e. a part of the bar would be like WoW's rest system only it would be more like a 'debt' system, earning 50% of normal exp. instead of 200%) at the same time. I think that would personally be amazing.
Dying in the old EQ1 (hell lvl) days sucked huge. There's still a decent amount of exp lost upon dying to this day.
These days I'd rather see a lateral penalty (less hp, less spell effectiveness or something other than exp) then a vertical (exp) penalty. Not saying that I won't play Vanguard if there's an exp penalty upon death I just prefer the lateral penalties.
I still think you should have an amount of lives and they take time to refresh...out of lives, can't play this toon until a life refresh...no other penalty.
Such a system doesn't affect casuals, since they won't run out of lives...but it is seriously affecting peoples with lot of time.
Maybe you can have some small debt system, as in CoV, in order to scare the casuals who wouldn't care about the amount of lives. This is eating half your next earned XP (rounded at the player disadvantage, sor 50% +1), so at worst you take twice more xp to level up...this scare casuals...a LOT...while I don't react at all to such a small thing, it is laughable for a player like me, yet, a lifes system...that would keep me in check and caring.
But I know, such a feature is too hardcore for some peoples...and casuals are prolly afraid about it, even if it would NEVER affect a casual...since it would be balanced to keep me and peoples with a lot of time stressed about dying, since we can't care less about a small debt that merely slow us.
EDIT: Such a lives per month system also give a game balancing option if the devs want to incorporate "epic races" at a later point, stronger races that have very little amount of lives...casuals might play them because they rarely die...and hardcore will see this as an increase challenge....yet, this is merely an option stacking to an already sweet system. The only persons that really dislike this lives-per month system are zergers...and I never care about them. Give them a server with no lives loss but full XP lost + CR and whatever else, so they can zerg ad nausea with like-minded zerger, peoples with same interests on the same servers = best for all.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by spiritglow Dying in the old EQ1 (hell lvl) days sucked huge. There's still a decent amount of exp lost upon dying to this day.
These days I'd rather see a lateral penalty (less hp, less spell effectiveness or something other than exp) then a vertical (exp) penalty. Not saying that I won't play Vanguard if there's an exp penalty upon death I just prefer the lateral penalties.
Spiritglow
I would agree with this slightly.
Doesnt make your efforts worthless (Recouping XP) but does penalize you for dieing.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth Originally posted by spiritglow Dying in the old EQ1 (hell lvl) days sucked huge. There's still a decent amount of exp lost upon dying to this day.
These days I'd rather see a lateral penalty (less hp, less spell effectiveness or something other than exp) then a vertical (exp) penalty. Not saying that I won't play Vanguard if there's an exp penalty upon death I just prefer the lateral penalties.
Spiritglow
I would agree with this slightly.
Doesnt make your efforts worthless (Recouping XP) but does penalize you for dieing.
Yes, still a penalty, one would still have to earn the hp, skill or spell effectiveness back and the time recoup could be same, more or less than what it would have been on the exp side of things. Of course lateral gaming is out of the box thinking for many. EQ1 came on board with lateral gaming somewhat with the AA system right after AO came out with theirs. Imo Guild Wars has intergrated both vertical and lateral progression really well. They seem to be moderate on vertical progression with very wide lateral progression.
The vertical progression in Guild Wars is moderate and limited but at first glance looks casual but upon really getting into the game it scales to hardcore with the lateral progression but that hardcoreness doesn't require 4 to 12 hours playing/grouping/raiding a day as a built in requirement to keep up. You can leave for a month and come back and still be competitive without having to redouble your efforts to get caught up with your friends/guild charactor level.
There's less chance of player burnout, less chance of feeling like a donkey in a desert with a bottle of water just beyond reach. It fosters independence without allowing too much independence and mitigates too much dependence. I think with a healthy well thought out balance of vertical and lateral progression you could satisfy about 80 percent of most player types from casual to grouper to raiders to pvpers. Granted I'm over simplifying but I see it as possible. One problem I see is getting the exclusively vertical progression player to balance their play but it's already been started by EQ1, AO and Guildwars so it's not totally new to some players.
I have to agree with others that a time sink is just a time sink. It just makes you play longer. It isn't making the game more challenging.
I've always wondered about something. Shouldn't death give you more experience though? I mean you die, and you come back to life. As a result you should notice or remember what you did wrong to die in the first place so you learn from the experience. Shouldn't you gain from that situation? Especially in a game where characters coming back to life is a norm?
Originally posted by Effect I have to agree with others that a time sink is just a time sink. It just makes you play longer. It isn't making the game more challenging.I've always wondered about something. Shouldn't death give you more experience though? I mean you die, and you come back to life. As a result you should notice or remember what you did wrong to die in the first place so you learn from the experience. Shouldn't you gain from that situation? Especially in a game where characters coming back to life is a norm?
well technically speaking, if you died and came back to life would you even remember anything from your previous life? the idea is if you mess up and wipe your group or die as a result of your group getting wiped then death should sting a little bit.
xp loss is just one way to give a player the incentive to not want to die because of that penalty or whatever penalty there is for dying.
i understand some people don't have alot of time to play games so it is defiantly not for everyone, personally i want death to sting (at least a little bit) but i also want the actual content that i am experiencing to be difficult, the content can be is difficult as they want it to be with or without the xp loss or corpse runs.
as long as it is really hard to keep yourself from dying (in certain dungeons) and some death penalties thrown in there for an added bonus, i am happy.
The difference is primarily a matter of preference. If people don't like the risk-reward balance and the challenge, there are plenty of other games to play out there. After trying many MMORPGs, the secret ingredients for me are risk, challenge, reward and fear. I got that from EQ and nothing else.
I'm not a hardcore player, I have a family and a full time job, so I could never put in that many hours in a given week. Sure, it took me more time to get things done in the game, but heck, I played it for 6 years and enjoyed it immensely. That time, that challenge, led to many good friendships in game. A lot of bonding through common experiences that were both enjoyable and painful. Basically:
I want to be afraid to die.
I want it to be a pain in the ass if I need to get my corpse, or even find it.
I want it to take effort to level.
I want it to be risky to travel from one place to another.
It's this risk that leads to excitement, which in turn, led to great EQ memories for my friends and I. The first time our guild was going to go into The Plane of Fear..... Wow! I remember it like yesterday, I was scared to death because we knew if we got wiped, and couldn't get our corpes back, well then, they were going to decay and we would lose all our equipment. When I got my epic.... it felt fantastic because as a casual player, it took a long time and a lot of help from great friends.
Originally posted by boojiboy The difference is primarily a matter of preference.
I agree.
If people don't like the risk-reward balance and the challenge, there are plenty of other games to play out there.
Of course people play other games and many do to fit their own risk-reward balance.
After trying many MMORPGs, the secret ingredients for me are risk, challenge, reward and fear.
Almost sounds like an intro to a game design doc.
I got that from EQ and nothing else.
That happened to me as well for a time.
I'm not a hardcore player, I have a family and a full time job, so I could never put in that many hours in a given week. Sure, it took me more time to get things done in the game, but heck, I played it for 6 years and enjoyed it immensely. That time, that challenge, led to many good friendships in game.
Same here except no family yet and that I could put in a tremendous amount of hours to play.
A lot of bonding through common experiences that were both enjoyable and painful. Basically: I want to be afraid to die. I want it to be a pain in the ass if I need to get my corpse, or even find it. I want it to take effort to level. I want it to be risky to travel from one place to another.
The above speaks of harshness.. A harsh gaming environment. The euphoria, the joy, the bonding that comes from overcoming a painful harsh environment. I experienced it as well.
Other segments of our society create such environments to induce bonding etc as well such as the military in boot camps and some types of training. Very necessary at times. The attributes needed to overcome harsh environments are good defence mechanisms for survival.
It's this risk that leads to excitement, which in turn, led to great EQ memories for my friends and I.
Same here. Many great memories.
The first time our guild was going to go into The Plane of Fear..... Wow! I remember it like yesterday, I was scared to death because we knew if we got wiped, and couldn't get our corpes back, well then, they were going to decay and we would lose all our equipment.
Corpse decay could be very painful indeed. Losing everything after having put in so many hours obtaining gear.
When I got my epic.... it felt fantastic because as a casual player, it took a long time and a lot of help from great friends.
Sure EQ fostered all that but for me heres the rub. I no longer desire or prefer a harsh gaming environment to derive an euphoria or joy or bonding. Sometimes theres a tendency to want to recreate, go back and re-experience a previous experience.
This is seen time and time again in those who have co-dependent tendencies and co-dependent tendencies left unresolved typically become addictions. (Game designers may or may not be aware of this.) If you were to put a few co-dependents in a room with many non-co-dependents the co-dependents would unconsciously become attracted to and approach each other about 80 percent of the time. We dont know why but it happens. It seems the only real difference between co-dependents and non-co-dependents is that co-dependents get stuck in an experience and want to recreate it and the non-co-dependent move on to creating their own new experiences and joys and remember its all happening at an unconscious non aware level usually.
People like Amathe and others realize innately its better not to try and go back and recreate the EQ experience for obvious reasons whereas those who tend toward co dependencies cant wait for it to happen, to them it would be like coming back home to comfortable surroundings no matter how harsh it is. The co-dependent is an expert at denial and magical thinking. Coming up with internal statements like its not that bad but it really is or at least I ____ and not ____ If I do ___ then it will be okay You fill in the blanks.
If you care to look into the co-dependent topic further Id recommend a book named Love is a Choice authored by Robert Hemfelt, Frank Minirth and Paul Meier.
Brad has been hard line in the past about the difficulty (harshness of the pve) in Vanguard but of late seem to have relaxed that position to something between EQ1 and WoW. There have been betarumors that revamp changes are being made to zones. But on the other hand lately he has said of his campaign to inform players (get the word out) about Vanguard that he has done bbqs before (from a silkyvenom dev post). I could do without the sarcasm.
I realize there are Brad-SOE-Vanguard haters out there and I surely have had some issues with SOE in the past, but I'm glad Brad posts as much as he does. I know of no other person is his position that does it to his degree and as Ive said in the past Im giving the game a chance and I hope others will as well but if its a recreation of the EQ1 grind with a new face and play mechanics then it will remain unplayed with my checking in every few months to see if its improved.
Spiritglow
P.S. See for yourself, make up your mind and go with it. That's what I'm gonna do
I see nothing wrong with EXP loss, lvl loss now that is another story. But to give value to what you do there must be something at stake, that is one of the things that separate the MMORPG from the more traditional home game.
Corpse retrival-well I look at it this way, how is it that running butt naked through high level zones trying to dodge the agro of creatures that though they may be 10 levels lower then you they can handedly beat the mess out of you a challenge? That is setting you up for failure. That reminds me
EQ when they added on an area in Erudin that had this place called the Hole. You could zone in by jumping in and plummet to your death and at first know one knew there was another entrance. Why do I say this was a setup? Because if you were High level your body was at the bottom of this dungeon and basicly unretrivable without a guild force or a necromancer and some heavy cash to summon your corpse, to make matters worse you thought that you could use levitate like in all other zones and enter this zone? Wrong, they purposely would dispell your levitate so you could suffer the same fate; no storyline reasoning so as not to break immersion and explain why. Just a way to jack the player and make some unknowing individual have to start all over again. This happened to many people.
My assumption to adding some of these mechanics to a game is the fact that some coders and developers are to lazy to come up with true challenging content and therefore create the horse chasing the carrot type of enviroment in game.
To the people of Vanguard, I hope they have learned from those hienous mistakes of the past, because this is the last chance I give those working on the current game.
On the flipside though this game does look very promising and I do think they are putting their heart and soul in it so I am trying to get past those horrible old times and be optimistic.
Originally posted by boojiboy The difference is primarily a matter of preference. If people don't like the risk-reward balance and the challenge, there are plenty of other games to play out there. After trying many MMORPGs, the secret ingredients for me are risk, challenge, reward and fear. I got that from EQ and nothing else. I'm not a hardcore player, I have a family and a full time job, so I could never put in that many hours in a given week. Sure, it took me more time to get things done in the game, but heck, I played it for 6 years and enjoyed it immensely. That time, that challenge, led to many good friendships in game. A lot of bonding through common experiences that were both enjoyable and painful. Basically: I want to be afraid to die. I want it to be a pain in the ass if I need to get my corpse, or even find it. I want it to take effort to level. I want it to be risky to travel from one place to another. It's this risk that leads to excitement, which in turn, led to great EQ memories for my friends and I. The first time our guild was going to go into The Plane of Fear..... Wow! I remember it like yesterday, I was scared to death because we knew if we got wiped, and couldn't get our corpes back, well then, they were going to decay and we would lose all our equipment. When I got my epic.... it felt fantastic because as a casual player, it took a long time and a lot of help from great friends.
EQ is still the best MMO out there to date IMHO. I still remember the first time I walked out of Felwithe into the forest and got killed by a small bat........that was almost 10yrs ago...and I remember it like yesterday. No other game has made you explore and feel the fear of death (especially if you are exploring alone). I haven't found another MMO game yet that gave you such a feeling of accomplishment from killing a dragon, god, or any creature as did EQ.
I for one hope this is (gotta love this word) a EQ "clone" with better graphics.....I want it to take 50-100 people to take down a dragon or a god and have the lore/background as extensive as EQ as well. It drives you to get to know the world your in and makes it that much more immersive.
Does anyone remember when the PVP server "Rallos Zek" Banded together and took down the Sleeper (Keraphrym for all you Lore junkies) ? How many hours did that take? And they had to do it 2 times.....how many people were involved? Nearly the entire server?? That is what a MMO should be.....they said the Sleeper was "unkillable" and they proved the devs wrong. To me that is just amazing and I was very jealous I was not a part of that server when that happened.
Bottom line, there are enough Care bear MMOs out there to choose from. If you dont like what Vanguard represents then the simple answer is don't buy it/play it. It's been made pretty clear that Vanguard will be a time sink, love it or leave it.
EQ is still the best MMO out there to date IMHO. I still remember the first time I walked out of Felwithe into the forest and got killed by a small bat........that was almost 10yrs ago...and I remember it like yesterday. No other game has made you explore and feel the fear of death (especially if you are exploring alone). I haven't found another MMO game yet that gave you such a feeling of accomplishment from killing a dragon, god, or any creature as did EQ.
I for one hope this is (gotta love this word) a EQ "clone" with better graphics.....I want it to take 50-100 people to take down a dragon or a god and have the lore/background as extensive as EQ as well. It drives you to get to know the world your in and makes it that much more immersive.
Does anyone remember when the PVP server "Rallos Zek" Banded together and took down the Sleeper (Keraphrym for all you Lore junkies) ? How many hours did that take? And they had to do it 2 times.....how many people were involved? Nearly the entire server?? That is what a MMO should be.....they said the Sleeper was "unkillable" and they proved the devs wrong. To me that is just amazing and I was very jealous I was not a part of that server when that happened.
Amen to the above, I for one am looking forward to the challenges I hope Vanguard will offer.
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth Because Time sinks do not make a game more challenging... they are just time sinks.Not everyone has no job and can play MMO's all day long.
Translation: /whineOn "I want easy mode, I don't want to have to think to play a game, I don't want to be careful, I don't want to have to avoid dieing, I don't want to earn anything with smart play, I don't want to wait for anything, and everything should be handed to me!"
If you want easy-mode, go play WoW... this is obviously not the game for you...
Typical Moronic Vanguard Fan boy. <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--> <!--[endif]-->
Cant hold a conversation or discussion so ill just jump on the poster with some stereo typical response.
My comments were about the Idea of Corps runs and XP loss as Challenge.
Where did I say any of those things?
The Downside of dieing is that you have failed, and must do it again, and most likely get back to where you are going.
Why must it be anything more than that?
Why must i waste the next 20 minutes of MY game time because i died? I dont have all day to play. Even doing all of the things you list i would still die.
So again, i died, for whatever reason, isnt failing, and having to try again enough?
You comments remind me of that Guy from the South part WOW episode, because im sure thats exactly what here would say.
Corps runs and XP loss are nothing more than time sinks to impede progression to increase subscription time and reinforce the addictive side of mmo's.
Thats not challenge.
For the record, i have played EQ1, SWG Pre-CU, UO (Pre Traminal (SP) and many others. I prefer sandboxs. So please, try to pigion whole me again will you.
At the time i was playing thoes games i was much younger, now i have a carrer, loved ones, and not alot of time to play MMO's. There is a beter way to create challange in MMO's with out wasting your users time.
You're complaining about something you obviously don't know about. All the things you are whining about (and it is whining since you're complaining about problems that don't exist) are not issues in VSoH, however you insist on complaining about them. Get in the Beta, TRY THE gAME & SYSTEMS, then come back and complain.
Oh, and I'm far from a Fanboi. I am however TIRED of people who think they know everything and actually know nothing of this game complaining about things that aren't even issues in this game. THATS Moronic.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Comments
I use to LOVE dying and having to run back to where I died to get my corpse. However - in recent times - dying and then losing a crap load of exp. (i.e. hell levels in EQ - dying at level 30 with 90% exp. to 31 made you go back down to about 5% exp.) is pointless. If I spent hours upon hours of reaching a level and then I died and lost all of that work due to simple 'lag', I'd be more than likely to quit after so many times...
Think of this though - DAoC had a /release system. You could lose exp., but not lose any levels. Imagine dying, losing a little bit of exp., then releasing and losing twice as much exp. AND your corpse. Now imagine when you get to your corpse you get half of the exp lost back yet you still had a debt. of exp (i.e. a part of the bar would be like WoW's rest system only it would be more like a 'debt' system, earning 50% of normal exp. instead of 200%) at the same time. I think that would personally be amazing.
Dying in the old EQ1 (hell lvl) days sucked huge. There's still a decent amount of exp lost upon dying to this day.
These days I'd rather see a lateral penalty (less hp, less spell effectiveness or something other than exp) then a vertical (exp) penalty. Not saying that I won't play Vanguard if there's an exp penalty upon death I just prefer the lateral penalties.
Spiritglow
I still think you should have an amount of lives and they take time to refresh...out of lives, can't play this toon until a life refresh...no other penalty.
Such a system doesn't affect casuals, since they won't run out of lives...but it is seriously affecting peoples with lot of time.
Maybe you can have some small debt system, as in CoV, in order to scare the casuals who wouldn't care about the amount of lives. This is eating half your next earned XP (rounded at the player disadvantage, sor 50% +1), so at worst you take twice more xp to level up...this scare casuals...a LOT...while I don't react at all to such a small thing, it is laughable for a player like me, yet, a lifes system...that would keep me in check and caring.
But I know, such a feature is too hardcore for some peoples...and casuals are prolly afraid about it, even if it would NEVER affect a casual...since it would be balanced to keep me and peoples with a lot of time stressed about dying, since we can't care less about a small debt that merely slow us.
EDIT: Such a lives per month system also give a game balancing option if the devs want to incorporate "epic races" at a later point, stronger races that have very little amount of lives...casuals might play them because they rarely die...and hardcore will see this as an increase challenge....yet, this is merely an option stacking to an already sweet system. The only persons that really dislike this lives-per month system are zergers...and I never care about them. Give them a server with no lives loss but full XP lost + CR and whatever else, so they can zerg ad nausea with like-minded zerger, peoples with same interests on the same servers = best for all.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I would agree with this slightly.
Doesnt make your efforts worthless (Recouping XP) but does penalize you for
dieing.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I would agree with this slightly.
Doesnt make your efforts worthless (Recouping XP) but does penalize you for dieing.
Yes, still a penalty, one would still have to earn the hp, skill or spell effectiveness back and the time recoup could be same, more or less than what it would have been on the exp side of things. Of course lateral gaming is out of the box thinking for many. EQ1 came on board with lateral gaming somewhat with the AA system right after AO came out with theirs. Imo Guild Wars has intergrated both vertical and lateral progression really well. They seem to be moderate on vertical progression with very wide lateral progression.
The vertical progression in Guild Wars is moderate and limited but at first glance looks casual but upon really getting into the game it scales to hardcore with the lateral progression but that hardcoreness doesn't require 4 to 12 hours playing/grouping/raiding a day as a built in requirement to keep up. You can leave for a month and come back and still be competitive without having to redouble your efforts to get caught up with your friends/guild charactor level.
There's less chance of player burnout, less chance of feeling like a donkey in a desert with a bottle of water just beyond reach. It fosters independence without allowing too much independence and mitigates too much dependence. I think with a healthy well thought out balance of vertical and lateral progression you could satisfy about 80 percent of most player types from casual to grouper to raiders to pvpers. Granted I'm over simplifying but I see it as possible. One problem I see is getting the exclusively vertical progression player to balance their play but it's already been started by EQ1, AO and Guildwars so it's not totally new to some players.
Spiritglow
I have to agree with others that a time sink is just a time sink. It just makes you play longer. It isn't making the game more challenging.
I've always wondered about something. Shouldn't death give you more experience though? I mean you die, and you come back to life. As a result you should notice or remember what you did wrong to die in the first place so you learn from the experience. Shouldn't you gain from that situation? Especially in a game where characters coming back to life is a norm?
well technically speaking, if you died and came back to life would you even remember anything from your previous life? the idea is if you mess up and wipe your group or die as a result of your group getting wiped then death should sting a little bit.
xp loss is just one way to give a player the incentive to not want to die because of that penalty or whatever penalty there is for dying.
i understand some people don't have alot of time to play games so it is defiantly not for everyone, personally i want death to sting (at least a little bit) but i also want the actual content that i am experiencing to be difficult, the content can be is difficult as they want it to be with or without the xp loss or corpse runs.
as long as it is really hard to keep yourself from dying (in certain dungeons) and some death penalties thrown in there for an added bonus, i am happy.
The difference is primarily a matter of preference. If people don't like the risk-reward balance and the challenge, there are plenty of other games to play out there. After trying many MMORPGs, the secret ingredients for me are risk, challenge, reward and fear. I got that from EQ and nothing else.
I'm not a hardcore player, I have a family and a full time job, so I could never put in that many hours in a given week. Sure, it took me more time to get things done in the game, but heck, I played it for 6 years and enjoyed it immensely. That time, that challenge, led to many good friendships in game. A lot of bonding through common experiences that were both enjoyable and painful. Basically:
I want to be afraid to die.
I want it to be a pain in the ass if I need to get my corpse, or even find it.
I want it to take effort to level.
I want it to be risky to travel from one place to another.
It's this risk that leads to excitement, which in turn, led to great EQ memories for my friends and I. The first time our guild was going to go into The Plane of Fear..... Wow! I remember it like yesterday, I was scared to death because we knew if we got wiped, and couldn't get our corpes back, well then, they were going to decay and we would lose all our equipment. When I got my epic.... it felt fantastic because as a casual player, it took a long time and a lot of help from great friends.
I see nothing wrong with EXP loss, lvl loss now that is another story. But to give value to what you do there must be something at stake, that is one of the things that separate the MMORPG from the more traditional home game.
Corpse retrival-well I look at it this way, how is it that running butt naked through high level zones trying to dodge the agro of creatures that though they may be 10 levels lower then you they can handedly beat the mess out of you a challenge? That is setting you up for failure. That reminds me
EQ when they added on an area in Erudin that had this place called the Hole. You could zone in by jumping in and plummet to your death and at first know one knew there was another entrance. Why do I say this was a setup? Because if you were High level your body was at the bottom of this dungeon and basicly unretrivable without a guild force or a necromancer and some heavy cash to summon your corpse, to make matters worse you thought that you could use levitate like in all other zones and enter this zone? Wrong, they purposely would dispell your levitate so you could suffer the same fate
; no storyline reasoning so as not to break immersion and explain why. Just a way to jack the player and make some unknowing individual have to start all over again. This happened to many people.
My assumption to adding some of these mechanics to a game is the fact that some coders and developers are to lazy to come up with true challenging content and therefore create the horse chasing the carrot type of enviroment in game.
To the people of Vanguard, I hope they have learned from those hienous mistakes of the past, because this is the last chance I give those working on the current game.
On the flipside though this game does look very promising
and I do think they are putting their heart and soul in it so I am trying to get past those horrible old times and be optimistic.
Only time can revele the future, Isn't it so?
Starwars Galaxies, An Empier Diveded, That's what it says on my box anyway.
http://www.ram.org/ramblings/science/time_is_relative.html
Bottom line, there are enough Care bear MMOs out there to choose from. If you dont like what Vanguard represents then the simple answer is don't buy it/play it. It's been made pretty clear that Vanguard will be a time sink, love it or leave it.
S
Amen to the above, I for one am looking forward to the challenges I hope Vanguard will offer.
S
Translation: /whineOn "I want easy mode, I don't want to have to think to play a game, I don't want to be careful, I don't want to have to avoid dieing, I don't want to earn anything with smart play, I don't want to wait for anything, and everything should be handed to me!"
If you want easy-mode, go play WoW... this is obviously not the game for you...
Typical Moronic Vanguard Fan boy.
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Cant hold a conversation or discussion so ill just jump on the poster with some stereo typical response.
My comments were about the Idea of Corps runs and XP loss as Challenge.
Where did I say any of those things?
The Downside of dieing is that you have failed, and must do it again, and most likely get back to where you are going.
Why must it be anything more than that?
Why must i waste the next 20 minutes of MY game time because i died? I dont have all day to play. Even doing all of the things you list i would still die.
So again, i died, for whatever reason, isnt failing, and having to try again enough?
You comments remind me of that Guy from the South part WOW episode, because im sure thats exactly what here would say.
Corps runs and XP loss are nothing more than time sinks to impede progression to increase subscription time and reinforce the addictive side of mmo's.
Thats not challenge.
For the record, i have played EQ1, SWG Pre-CU, UO (Pre Traminal (SP) and many others. I prefer sandboxs. So please, try to pigion whole me again will you.
At the time i was playing thoes games i was much younger, now i have a carrer, loved ones, and not alot of time to play MMO's. There is a beter way to create challange in MMO's with out wasting your users time.Typical Moronic Vanguard H8tr.
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You're complaining about something you obviously don't know about. All the things you are whining about (and it is whining since you're complaining about problems that don't exist) are not issues in VSoH, however you insist on complaining about them. Get in the Beta, TRY THE gAME & SYSTEMS, then come back and complain.
Oh, and I'm far from a Fanboi. I am however TIRED of people who think they know everything and actually know nothing of this game complaining about things that aren't even issues in this game. THATS Moronic.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!