think people are too hung up on the whole "game must be true to the era of the story" idea.
Meaning, the game is supposed to be just after episode 4 after they wiped out the Jedi
And they are supposed to be rare to non-existent
So if you really want to be true to the plot there should be no Jedi.
If you can get past the "has to conform to the original plot" then having alot of Jedi doesn't really make a difference. We're supposed to be making our own story anyway, right?
Jedi are not the Uber almost unkillable class they once were, They are a good melee class and rightly vulnerable to a good ranged attack. They have brought balance to the Force
I didn't have a Jedi Character pre-CU because I wasn't up for grinding a bunch of professions that I had no interest in pursuing.
As far as the whole perma death thing, I think that any kind of limit to the number of Jedi or any kind of Perma death thing would turn me off. I like to PvP and perma death would make me not want to PvP with my Jedi. I'm also having fun with my post NGE Jedi and I didn't have to dance a single dance, make any sandwiches or do anybody's hair style To get him.
And you guys wonder why there wont ever be a pre-cu swg?
Even between the 20-25 anti nger's on this board there seems to be great disagreement on the jedi issue. You do realize this is what brought on the NGE in the first place right?
_____________________ I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
Originally posted by Zaush IMHO the quest to become Jedi became the major content of the game for most people during the hologrind era, and evem more so during the village. Becoming Jedi should be removed as content in the game, But not Jedi and not as an alpha class.
Simple solution, make a sever cap for Jedi at each level, and make it a % of the total population of the sever, say around 6%, 1% Master, 2% Knight, and 3% Jedi.
Institute perma death on Knight and above, and make master perma overt to any and everyone in game regardless of faction. Make them extremely tough however, with strong mind trick abilities to be able to hide amoung the masses.
Make unlocking a FS slot a back end "lottery" process. There is nothing an individual can do to become FS, or unlock FS, it is just luck. If and when your FS/Jedi toon dies, you could either keep the slot as a regular toon, or drop it and go back into the lottery process. As toons die, slots open up for new players.
Jedi should be powerful, should be rare, and should be very tough to play. This should weed out the powergamers who play Jedi as a noverlty, as opposed to serious Star Wars fans who hold the position of Jedi to a higher standard.
Originally posted by feldrin I think the village idea was much better than the holo grind (I did both). I like the skill loss idea (not just xp loss) and saber TEF. For death there should always be punishment for a jedi it should have been much more that other classes. Why, well because it was a tough life being a jedi and that's enough reason. The real problem with jedi in SWG was there was no jedi content. There should have been things were there just for jedi. There were after all BH terminals if there had been more for a jedi to do there would not have been as many stand outside the starport in cities all across the galaxy. I remember having my jedi on mustafar the day before they anounce the NGE, by no means was it jedi only content but you got to fight ncp with light sabers. It was great. The few days before they announce the nge was the most fun I had in SWG since well before the CU. Anyway I guess none of this really matters I just gave the 21 day trial a look and I assure you the game is nothing like it once was so jedi doesn't matter anymore our game has been dead for while.
Just so you know (in the beta) as I have screen shots, it's first run had skill loss and TEFs... not alot of people know this, it lasted only a week before it was changed in the beta of the village.
I look back and still think it's funny I got invited to alot of those lol.... That is before they hated me due to my rants with the NGE.
lol
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Then, since Jedi had Alt's, they should put logout timer of 1-8 hours when you die as a Jedi, Depending on your Vis LVL.
How dare you contemplate the thought of those who unlocked (in the days) actually log into their mains/alts to "play" the game. A suggestion as such would have caused for so much turmoil when somebody would point out Pre-NGE that all who unlock have the second character to play the game with when discussing how to curb the Jedi sprawl (and chastised if they had a Jedi as well). It's the inherent problem of alpha classes that are "awarded" based upon purported "work" for a game and always tears apart the community.
The above aside there were countless ways that SOE/LEC could have balanced out to allow for whatever build they'd like; however, that would have required both houses to be open to customer input as well as not following the WoW carrot.
LOl, this is what I did when I died, you had to calm down gather your thoughts.... and plan the next run and how to stay alive.
You had to PLAN PLAN PLAN... you had to THINK THINK THINK... these are all anti-NGE concepts of course but it was part of the fun.
You could not run around willy nilly and live forever dueling or some crap like that.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Heres a bad story, one of my in game Jedi friends that unlocked early as well, was goofing off in the city we hid at...
This is PERMA DEATH DAYS... needless to say, he had died twice that week, I died once killing mobs...
Well, he decided to duel a TKM friend of ours in the city and told him back off.. if he got low...
So fine, he agreed.
They start fighting, both get low (Now he is 3444 in Jedi paddy (Which is like Knight in the system you guys may remember, were talking 7 weeks of grinding...)
Needless to say, as you guys may remember TKMs once in that spinning kick (I forgot the name) it does not stop.... well, the triple incap happend by mistake and almost instantly.
Needless to say, he died, lost it all.. sabers, money , items, and skills...LOL just for fucking around.
Trust me when I say, it will make you think twice before dueling and acting foolish when you lose 20 mill xp that is hard to get.
And boy was he pissed off. His own fault too... BUT he learned....
See, people think because it's a game it shoudl be easy or somthing in the NGE... man do they have it wrong.
Some of us liked it harder then any game, risky and rewarding..Some people do not get that.
Whats worse is the Devs and the marketing dept got together to fuck this up in ways we never thought possible.
Too bad to, it really was fun.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by pirrg And you guys wonder why there wont ever be a pre-cu swg?
Even between the 20-25 anti nger's on this board there seems to be great disagreement on the jedi issue. You do realize this is what brought on the NGE in the first place right?
Right so here's 20-25, or thereabouts, anti-NGE'ers who posted on a single thread :
Originally posted by pirrg And you guys wonder why there wont ever be a pre-cu swg?
Even between the 20-25 anti nger's on this board there seems to be great disagreement on the jedi issue. You do realize this is what brought on the NGE in the first place right?
Right so here's 20-25, or thereabouts, anti-NGE'ers who posted on a single thread :
if it had been stickied, god knows how many more would have signed.
acmtalk
Aetius73
akevv
Amnestie
Apache_
ArtifacT
ata23
Athela
auntisocial
avienthas
azhrarn
Bama1267
bas1889
BBCG
Beatnik59
bigfoots
bigherb
BillyTheKidd
Bissrok
Blackslug
Bob_Blawblaw
Brentmeister
broadzilla
caine6621
Candiru
right that's 25, and there's more
Captainhook
CastleGoob
Charisi
Chessack
chlaos
chudbrew
dacia72
Daed710
Dakkide
Darklighter1
DarthRaiden
Delzo
derangedcow
dmane15
dookseid
dudleysoft
duncan_922
ebenholt
enzyme
Erwinn
Fignar
FikusOfAhazi
FreelancerA4
Gearbox
GGordon27
gladiatory2k
gmmonkey
gnarlsbarkly
Gorair
Gozzar
Gresesmonkey
Gurlok
Harry-Sack
Hauken
iskareot
JediGeek
JestorRodo
Jett
Jorev
jrgambit
jrscott
kanezfan
kb056
Kehn
KenshuAni
KillerJimmy
kimosabe
kinglog123
kissodeath
kparton
Kylrathin
larrylf38
lasko
Leel
LilT
lordkas
LuRavi
Lyta
-Magoo-
majoch
Malickiebloo
Mavolence
Maxzius
miagisan
micro04
MikeG50
milton1970
mithrandir72
Morlan
morpin
Morrigane
mpaody
MrArchy
MX13
n2k3156
Nasedoo
neilh73
njdevi66
oats
Obigan
Ohisham
oreyi
Osen
OssirisWard
pegaus
Plasuma!!!
pmc8853
poizenviper
PyscoJuggalo
Ra've
RavenStJ
Reachwind
rizzi
rollnstns
royalpenalty
ruegon
Sandbox
Saublod
Seloth
Sempayw
ShadowLords
sham4480
Shayde
ShiloFields
shirlnt
Shogie
sickboy_ukuk
Slickinfinit
SmurfMagic
Snipan
snoops99
SODAofBRIA
Splashin
SratoEd
suske
Taram
TeranHawkins
tetsul
thamathar
tillamook
tjvoodoo
treysmooth
Utapau
Vagelisp
Vastar
Vind1cator
VolatileMan
Wakizashi
Wildcat84
wmassey
wolfmann
Womp
Wordaen
WuduLarch
Wufa
Xcathdra
xxthecorexx
zadrak1
Zaush
ZenoLoc
zipit
zoey121
zzzilladraw
saying ROFL pwned just does not say enough.
Pirrg DO NOT SAY THE NGE WAS BECAUSE OF JEDI, because it was not at all.
You need to attend some summit meetings before you spew your crap.
Jedi was USED in the NGE as a marketing ploy to hold people or get what people left or new people to try it because of free JEDI now.
It was told to us by Grant at the summit.
ALSO KNOW, that Grants side of the team wanted to keep it unlocked and rare, however the marketing team wanted a carrot to dangle.
In fact, he quoted himself saying He wished it did not happen that way, but some things are out of thier control"... People threw a fit and yelled so loud it was not funny.
In fact, most people at the summits wanted Jedi to be locked and rare...not free, but like they said at them all they needed a ploy to attract people.
So don't go saying JEDI made the NGE or some crap, because it's not true at all..
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Go to love the posts saying it was the player-base that brought about NGE happen. If the Players Opinions of of the game mattered to them so much, then why didn't the posts saying the NGE was bad even while it was on the test server make them re-think and consider.
A simple Poll on the site would have shown how well the thing was going to be received.
No this was an attempt to get a new player-base nothing more. And when It didn't materialize, the board clamp down and the damage control age begun.
Go to love the posts saying it was the player-base that brought about NGE happen. If the Players Opinions of of the game mattered to them so much, then why didn't the posts saying the NGE was bad even while it was on the test server make them re-think and consider. A simple Poll on the site would have shown how well the thing was going to be received. No this was an attempt to get a new player-base nothing more. And when It didn't materialize, the board clamp down and the damage control age begun.
Yep , they changed that and actually did say at the Game meetings in Austin that they tried to get a magical player base more or less.
They failed and hence you heard the term... "Do not make our mistakes"... come up often now.
The NGE was not only a failure, but they all wish they had not done it or had it. Sucks, but they at least say they wish they never did it etc... Smedley himself on his blog said this.
So while Pirrg can claim some great thing to the NGE I think it's safe to say he is wrong. Bottom line, I will look at the product as a business choice. It is a failure, no success at all actually.
The writing is on the wall when only 20 people show up at the last summit meeting in Cali... sorry, I know better.
It's sad, at one time they had to turn people away from a 1500 person ball room. Now..? Now they have leftover breakfast food for the homeless...
Gotta love irony and Karma catching up to them.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
1. Why is it bad that there alot of Jedi and that anyone who wants a Jedi can now have one?
2. Why do Jedi need a different system for death than all the rest of the classes?
3. Should Jedi be an Alpha class that is stronger than the other classes?
I suspect that if you answered yes to number 3, then it is the reason for number one and two.
If Jedi are balanced with other classes, then there is no reason for 1 and 2, perma death, limits or the like.
If Jedi are an Alpha class then PvP can never be balanced. If you have PvP and you have a class that had advantages over all the other classes it makes the game not worth playing IMO.
When I engage in PvP I like to know the contest is determined by the decisions I make in combat. When combat is determined by a. Having grinded through countless dungeons to get the uber gear (why I left Wow) or b. Having grinded and grinded and grinded XP/Professions (Why I left pre-CU SWG), then it kills the fun of PvP.
Go to Planetside you say? Play Battlefield you say? I like to have crafting in the mix, and being able to have things like owning a house, personlized vehicles, etc. is what I am looking for, and none of the FPS/Quasi-MMO's have those things.
Balanced PvP and a non-grinding RPG game makes for good fun.
What if they had a game where you could choose your level?
If you want to grind, then pick level one. If you don't, then pick the maximum level character.
I wonder how many people would choose the grind given an equal amount of content at all levels?
***Edit, doh! hit enter instead of tab and the poll got posted before I was done. and Edit message doesn't let me edit the poll. See complete poll in next post->>>
*** Hmm... Won't let me post another poll to this thread either. Choices should have been
a. I would choose max level
b. I would choose a mid level
c. I would choose level one
d. I wouldn't be interested in playing a game like that.
Originally posted by Wankler I have to ask a couple of questions here:
1. Why is it bad that there alot of Jedi and that anyone who wants a Jedi can now have one?
2. Why do Jedi need a different system for death than all the rest of the classes?
3. Should Jedi be an Alpha class that is stronger than the other classes?
I suspect that if you answered yes to number 3, then it is the reason for number one and two.
If Jedi are balanced with other classes, then there is no reason for 1 and 2, perma death, limits or the like.
If Jedi are an Alpha class then PvP can never be balanced. If you have PvP and you have a class that had advantages over all the other classes it makes the game not worth playing IMO.
When I engage in PvP I like to know the contest is determined by the decisions I make in combat. When combat is determined by a. Having grinded through countless dungeons to get the uber gear (why I left Wow) or b. Having grinded and grinded and grinded XP/Professions (Why I left pre-CU SWG), then it kills the fun of PvP.
Go to Planetside you say? Play Battlefield you say? I like to have crafting in the mix, and being able to have things like owning a house, personlized vehicles, etc. is what I am looking for, and none of the FPS/Quasi-MMO's have those things.
Balanced PvP and a non-grinding RPG game makes for good fun.
What if they had a game where you could choose your level?
If you want to grind, then pick level one. If you don't, then pick the maximum level character.
I wonder how many people would choose the grind given an equal amount of content at all levels?
***Edit, doh! hit enter instead of tab and the poll got posted before I was done. and Edit message doesn't let me edit the poll. See complete poll in next post->>>
*** Hmm... Won't let me post another poll to this thread either. Choices should have been
a. I would choose max level b. I would choose a mid level c. I would choose level one d. I wouldn't be interested in playing a game like that.
First answer:
Because this is set in a time where they are supposed to be a very few in exile. Guess thats the difference when I watch films and play games. I like them to make at least a little sence.
Second Answer:
Personaly Did'nt want them in game to start with.
Third Answer:
Well second answer covers this.
As to chosing my levels. This answe covers A through D.
I just wouldnt play it.
If i wanted everything from the get go I would play a different type of game. A game designed for it. I would'nt Expect BF2 to change to an rpg because I prefer that type of game.
And for any smart ass who ses (what are you doing now) I say, Asking for the original game back. Big difference there.
Originally posted by Wankler I have to ask a couple of questions here:
1. Why is it bad that there alot of Jedi and that anyone who wants a Jedi can now have one?
Because at the start of the game, this was to be a Star Wars Universe more so being, other things classes or profs were present-- kinda a balance like police vs civilians if you will. This concept drew us all in, every single Star Wars game can have 5578758 Jedi -- this is one that allowed you to be Uncloe Owen and be just as valid in ways.
The concept of Jedi was talked of in beta but was never a main topic -- and we liked that. All other games had focused on that but this was to be different and it made sense.
It was not a game just about Jedi it was about everything Star Wars... small and big.
BUT part of your question is kinda loaded, because the alpha part of it and rare in numbers issue comes into play with balance to the population etc.. I will get to that.
2. Why do Jedi need a different system for death than all the rest of the classes?
See, this again is going back on the power of Jedi to be different in the risk vs reward concept that was invented. The option KEPT the popualtion, the challenge and difficulty to the extreme, thus even pushing the economy and still making people play thier main toon, as not to through the balance out of the population. Jedi was more powerful so there had to be things in the system to keep it in check to (hold some of the balance) since the other classes were not pitted against that.
Lets face it, Jedi are and should be stronger then Uncle Owen, or for that matter a simple Storm Trooper, even most Dark Troopers etc.. BUT how do you do this with a balance? Well, you consider PVE and also PVP -- but you add risk to it to make it worth while... a glass cannon if you will. So that, the deaths have a higher penalty based on it's power and class, with that said... this is still a debate to this day.
BUT this comes into play with the work and effort with thought made into the toon.. this is kinda going backwards now that I see your questions are all kinda falling into one.
See, Jedi was a in game reward, a in game goal at first... it was somthing you did while you did the rest of the game and learned about it, how to do things, live and make creds and be successful. It was in most ways a goal or quest if you will with alot of risk and reward.
3. Should Jedi be an Alpha class that is stronger than the other classes?
Yes it SHOULD have been, this does not fit in the NGE and so it will never happen again.. the NGE is a very dummied down version of the complex game we once had. Right now, with no loss, decay, no risk in fact nothing to even worry about with visibility or ganks... this is a moot point.
BUT see the catch is this, Yes it should be BUT it should have higher risks, this class and toon was for the power gamer in us... sorry it just was... It worked better in this game too for that reason. We did not need 0275937 Jedi running around. We needed 1 in 20 at best... or even 1 in 10 -- not 75% Jedi --- this would have made the game more successful, giving people goals in game... to take at thier own pace, while enjoying the population of the game and other classes.
There was so many things that made this into balance, such as perma death decay, skill loss and common sense.
You could not USE your Jedi 24/7 you had to be smart, grind when you could avoid things and use some tactics and planning.. IT WAS A SIM vs ARCADE STYLE JEDI GAME.
The balance came from how long it took to unlock, the creds and resources, the BH hunting you, the TEFs, the Decay, the Death system of skill loss or perma death and decay of it (So you could not play your Jedi 24/7 and it did not look like JEDI ONLINE vs SWG) A entire galaxy of different people.
Our balance was alot of risk, time, effort and reward, while still having a strict set of rules to play by.
Yes, some people did abuse this, but this is no different then the game now with other things.
Jedi was not for the casual gamer, like it or not it wasn't. BUT THE NGE needed people so they used this ploy to change it.
JEDI COULD HAVE AND WAS balanced with PvP but see, here is the issue... people assumed and claimed themselves as equals to Jedi -- they just thought they should be able to fight every class. Jedi should have been pitted more so against Light and Dark -- but still had interaction with normal toons.
This was the PvP issue with Jedi -- you have easy toon vs hard to get toon that was made strong with high risks.... (So in this case the common sense comment is, well get 3 people to kill him if you don't think he should kill you)..
Which by it's concept is what was supposed to happen. BUT you have people that cried because they could not solo one... in PvP THERE IS NO RULE that says all things need to be equal.. if that was the case then everyone should be exactly alike and call it a day.
That is boring...So this encouraged, group hunts, Jedi was at risk and it should have been. Most of us knew our roles and expected it. Making a game worth playing is a mere choice. There is goals and concepts in alot of games. The balance DOES NOT HAVE TO COME FROM PLAYERS... it can come from the games mechanics alone.
People needed to understand that, but they chose to cry instead. Do not get me wrong not all Jedi were decent, some were assholes, I know I had my share of them running into them.
See then the last factor comes into play:
SIM vs ARCADE -- What do you want in PvP -- if you want all things equal and exact, not to mention based on lag, items, class, etc... THEN you are a ARCADE style pvper..
This is not SIM -- in SIM it is alot like the real world and can be rough, not everyone HAS a saber, NOT everyone has a good weapon they saved up for months to use, NOT everyone has a weapon made with Krayt scales that made that weapon perfect and powerful, NOT everyone is a level 90 and wants to grind that far... to use a weapon, NOT evreyone is the same with speed, stance etc..... power.
So while some of this could ALL be simply answered in that fashion, I think you can understand it. SIM vs ARCADE..
Balance is in the eye of the beholder most of the time... SIM, ARCADE , none of this matters and just makes it so that whomever presses a button faster wins..NOT the time and effort he spent learning the toon, its mechs, knowing its risk, and items well.
SO here we are...
The NGE.. is ARCADE, it by all means is not complex and has less factors in pvp to even make a difference... a Level 90 is a level 90 and odds are they are all close in damage etc.. finding out that level mattered more at the summits was funny though I must admit.)
The pre-NGE had a challenge, it was SIM -- you could not just go up to a Storm Trooper and kill him, you had risks involved, from TEFS to other people etc...
The balance was complex, don't get me wrong but as we can all see... it seems people now realized how much they liked it now that it is all gone.
(In other words, it's good to be the one eyed king in the land of the blind, but sooner or later you will get bored).
Jedi and the concept of it being a reward worked well, it was just missunderstood and people had alot of jealously and anger that stemmed from it.
Being one that was in beta, unlocked at pub 6 I have seen it all.... from when we were rare and special and people were very very kind to us, TO being spit on in Star Ports with pole arms in hand and being a class that is given away no different then a merchant.
For marketing Jedi was the last dollar maker.... the NGE needed the help, so it was the sacrafice or the pig they bled perse...
It's sad, at one time -- it was a goal to unlock, get that special music and know you did use effort in the game to get somthing, THEN the real grind started and you then had to learn somthing altogether harder.
Some people just do not understand or want to work for this concept... and 97% of the time it's the people that NEVER MADE JEDI OR WERE ONE THAT THINK THEY KNOW WHAT IT WAS LIKE OR WAS FOR THAT MATTER HOW IT HARD IT WAS... it's those people that make me laugh... because odds are most of them are now Free clicky Jedi talking smack...lol
Isk---
OH* (and yeah, I did alot of things with Jedi to know all of this, I beta'd all stages of it and was lucky enough to be one, make Knight and do it all the hard way.. to understand why things were like they were.)
I suspect that if you answered yes to number 3, then it is the reason for number one and two.
If Jedi are balanced with other classes, then there is no reason for 1 and 2, perma death, limits or the like.
If Jedi are an Alpha class then PvP can never be balanced. If you have PvP and you have a class that had advantages over all the other classes it makes the game not worth playing IMO.
When I engage in PvP I like to know the contest is determined by the decisions I make in combat. When combat is determined by a. Having grinded through countless dungeons to get the uber gear (why I left Wow) or b. Having grinded and grinded and grinded XP/Professions (Why I left pre-CU SWG), then it kills the fun of PvP.
Go to Planetside you say? Play Battlefield you say? I like to have crafting in the mix, and being able to have things like owning a house, personlized vehicles, etc. is what I am looking for, and none of the FPS/Quasi-MMO's have those things.
Balanced PvP and a non-grinding RPG game makes for good fun.
What if they had a game where you could choose your level?
If you want to grind, then pick level one. If you don't, then pick the maximum level character.
I wonder how many people would choose the grind given an equal amount of content at all levels?
***Edit, doh! hit enter instead of tab and the poll got posted before I was done. and Edit message doesn't let me edit the poll. See complete poll in next post->>>
*** Hmm... Won't let me post another poll to this thread either. Choices should have been
a. I would choose max level b. I would choose a mid level c. I would choose level one d. I wouldn't be interested in playing a game like that.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by Wankler I have to ask a couple of questions here:
1. Why is it bad that there alot of Jedi and that anyone who wants a Jedi can now have one?
2. Why do Jedi need a different system for death than all the rest of the classes?
3. Should Jedi be an Alpha class that is stronger than the other classes?
I suspect that if you answered yes to number 3, then it is the reason for number one and two.
If Jedi are balanced with other classes, then there is no reason for 1 and 2, perma death, limits or the like.
If Jedi are an Alpha class then PvP can never be balanced. If you have PvP and you have a class that had advantages over all the other classes it makes the game not worth playing IMO.
PvP balance will ruin a good PvE game everytime. And if you make harsh penalties for misusing your Jedi character, then the alpha class problem is no longer an issue.
When I engage in PvP I like to know the contest is determined by the decisions I make in combat. When combat is determined by a. Having grinded through countless dungeons to get the uber gear (why I left Wow) or b. Having grinded and grinded and grinded XP/Professions (Why I left pre-CU SWG), then it kills the fun of PvP.
Go to Planetside you say? Play Battlefield you say? I like to have crafting in the mix, and being able to have things like owning a house, personlized vehicles, etc. is what I am looking for, and none of the FPS/Quasi-MMO's have those things.
Balanced PvP and a non-grinding RPG game makes for good fun.
That is a gameplay opinion. I had alot of fun grinding Pre CU. It would have been nice to have a little more placed content to balance it out.
What if they had a game where you could choose your level?
If you want to grind, then pick level one. If you don't, then pick the maximum level character.
I wonder how many people would choose the grind given an equal amount of content at all levels?
***Edit, doh! hit enter instead of tab and the poll got posted before I was done. and Edit message doesn't let me edit the poll. See complete poll in next post->>>
*** Hmm... Won't let me post another poll to this thread either. Choices should have been
a. I would choose max level b. I would choose a mid level c. I would choose level one d. I wouldn't be interested in playing a game like that.
I would never play such a game. There is a reason why I don't play console games now.
Comments
Meaning, the game is supposed to be just after episode 4 after they wiped out the Jedi
And they are supposed to be rare to non-existent
So if you really want to be true to the plot there should be no Jedi.
If you can get past the "has to conform to the original plot" then
having alot of Jedi doesn't really make a difference. We're supposed
to be making our own story anyway, right?
Jedi are not the Uber almost unkillable class they once were, They are
a good melee class and rightly vulnerable to a good ranged attack. They
have brought balance to the Force
I didn't have a Jedi Character pre-CU because I wasn't up for grinding
a bunch of professions that I had no interest in pursuing.
As far as the whole perma death thing, I think that any kind of limit
to the number of Jedi or any kind of Perma death thing would turn me
off. I like to PvP and perma death would make me not want to PvP with
my Jedi. I'm also having fun with my post NGE Jedi and I didn't have
to dance a single dance, make any sandwiches or do anybody's hair style
To get him.
Even between the 20-25 anti nger's on this board there seems to be great disagreement on the jedi issue. You do realize this is what brought on the NGE in the first place right?
_____________________
I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
Waste of bandwidth.
PreCU SW:G is gone, never coming back.
Get over it.
Just so you know (in the beta) as I have screen shots, it's first run had skill loss and TEFs... not alot of people know this, it lasted only a week before it was changed in the beta of the village.
I look back and still think it's funny I got invited to alot of those lol.... That is before they hated me due to my rants with the NGE.
lol
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
How dare you contemplate the thought of those who unlocked (in the days) actually log into their mains/alts to "play" the game. A suggestion as such would have caused for so much turmoil when somebody would point out Pre-NGE that all who unlock have the second character to play the game with when discussing how to curb the Jedi sprawl (and chastised if they had a Jedi as well). It's the inherent problem of alpha classes that are "awarded" based upon purported "work" for a game and always tears apart the community.
The above aside there were countless ways that SOE/LEC could have balanced out to allow for whatever build they'd like; however, that would have required both houses to be open to customer input as well as not following the WoW carrot.
LOl, this is what I did when I died, you had to calm down gather your thoughts.... and plan the next run and how to stay alive.
You had to PLAN PLAN PLAN... you had to THINK THINK THINK... these are all anti-NGE concepts of course but it was part of the fun.
You could not run around willy nilly and live forever dueling or some crap like that.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Heres a bad story, one of my in game Jedi friends that unlocked early as well, was goofing off in the city we hid at...
This is PERMA DEATH DAYS... needless to say, he had died twice that week, I died once killing mobs...
Well, he decided to duel a TKM friend of ours in the city and told him back off.. if he got low...
So fine, he agreed.
They start fighting, both get low (Now he is 3444 in Jedi paddy (Which is like Knight in the system you guys may remember, were talking 7 weeks of grinding...)
Needless to say, as you guys may remember TKMs once in that spinning kick (I forgot the name) it does not stop.... well, the triple incap happend by mistake and almost instantly.
Needless to say, he died, lost it all.. sabers, money , items, and skills...LOL just for fucking around.
Trust me when I say, it will make you think twice before dueling and acting foolish when you lose 20 mill xp that is hard to get.
And boy was he pissed off. His own fault too... BUT he learned....
See, people think because it's a game it shoudl be easy or somthing in the NGE... man do they have it wrong.
Some of us liked it harder then any game, risky and rewarding..Some people do not get that.
Whats worse is the Devs and the marketing dept got together to fuck this up in ways we never thought possible.
Too bad to, it really was fun.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Right so here's 20-25, or thereabouts, anti-NGE'ers who posted on a single thread :
http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/96008/page/1
if it had been stickied, god knows how many more would have signed.
Candiru
right that's 25, and there's more
Right so here's 20-25, or thereabouts, anti-NGE'ers who posted on a single thread :
http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/96008/page/1
if it had been stickied, god knows how many more would have signed.
Candiru
right that's 25, and there's more
saying ROFL pwned just does not say enough.
Pirrg DO NOT SAY THE NGE WAS BECAUSE OF JEDI, because it was not at all.
You need to attend some summit meetings before you spew your crap.
Jedi was USED in the NGE as a marketing ploy to hold people or get what people left or new people to try it because of free JEDI now.
It was told to us by Grant at the summit.
ALSO KNOW, that Grants side of the team wanted to keep it unlocked and rare, however the marketing team wanted a carrot to dangle.
In fact, he quoted himself saying He wished it did not happen that way, but some things are out of thier control"... People threw a fit and yelled so loud it was not funny.
In fact, most people at the summits wanted Jedi to be locked and rare...not free, but like they said at them all they needed a ploy to attract people.
So don't go saying JEDI made the NGE or some crap, because it's not true at all..
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Go to love the posts saying it was the player-base that brought about NGE happen. If the Players Opinions of of the game mattered to them so much, then why didn't the posts saying the NGE was bad even while it was on the test server make them re-think and consider.
A simple Poll on the site would have shown how well the thing was going to be received.
No this was an attempt to get a new player-base nothing more. And when It didn't materialize, the board clamp down and the damage control age begun.
Yep , they changed that and actually did say at the Game meetings in Austin that they tried to get a magical player base more or less.
They failed and hence you heard the term... "Do not make our mistakes"... come up often now.
The NGE was not only a failure, but they all wish they had not done it or had it. Sucks, but they at least say they wish they never did it etc... Smedley himself on his blog said this.
So while Pirrg can claim some great thing to the NGE I think it's safe to say he is wrong. Bottom line, I will look at the product as a business choice. It is a failure, no success at all actually.
The writing is on the wall when only 20 people show up at the last summit meeting in Cali... sorry, I know better.
It's sad, at one time they had to turn people away from a 1500 person ball room. Now..? Now they have leftover breakfast food for the homeless...
Gotta love irony and Karma catching up to them.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
I have to ask a couple of questions here:
1. Why is it bad that there alot of Jedi and that anyone who wants a Jedi can now have one?
2. Why do Jedi need a different system for death than all the rest of the classes?
3. Should Jedi be an Alpha class that is stronger than the other classes?
I suspect that if you answered yes to number 3, then it is the reason for number one and two.
If Jedi are balanced with other classes, then there is no reason for 1 and 2, perma death, limits or the like.
If Jedi are an Alpha class then PvP can never be balanced. If you
have PvP and you have a class that had advantages over all the other
classes it makes the game not worth playing IMO.
When I
engage in PvP I like to know the contest is determined by the decisions
I make in combat. When combat is determined by a. Having grinded
through countless dungeons to get the uber gear (why I left Wow) or b.
Having grinded and grinded and grinded XP/Professions (Why I left
pre-CU SWG), then it kills the fun of PvP.
Go to Planetside
you say? Play Battlefield you say? I like to have crafting
in the mix, and being able to have things like owning a house,
personlized vehicles, etc. is what I am looking for, and none of the
FPS/Quasi-MMO's have those things.
Balanced PvP and a non-grinding RPG game makes for good fun.
What if they had a game where you could choose your level?
If you want to grind, then pick level one. If you don't, then pick the maximum level character.
I wonder how many people would choose the grind given an equal amount of content at all levels?
***Edit, doh! hit enter instead of tab and the poll got posted before I
was done. and Edit message doesn't let me edit the poll.
See complete poll in next post->>>
*** Hmm... Won't let me post another poll to this thread either. Choices should have been
a. I would choose max level
b. I would choose a mid level
c. I would choose level one
d. I wouldn't be interested in playing a game like that.
First answer:
Because this is set in a time where they are supposed to be a very few in exile. Guess thats the difference when I watch films and play games. I like them to make at least a little sence.
Second Answer:
Personaly Did'nt want them in game to start with.
Third Answer:
Well second answer covers this.
As to chosing my levels.
This answe covers A through D.
I just wouldnt play it.
If i wanted everything from the get go I would play a different type of game. A game designed for it. I would'nt Expect BF2 to change to an rpg because I prefer that type of game.
And for any smart ass who ses (what are you doing now) I say, Asking for the original game back. Big difference there.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1