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Why PvPers Need Carebears
Syloc
Member Posts: 92
Ever feel the perpetual need to ravage that treehugger over and over again with a sharp metal object? Or how about that jackas that spams the DAOC chat with, "I don't realm vs realm, I just craft?"
What's funny is that, despite the horrid difference between pvpers and carebears, there's an addition that that carebear community gives pvp. Hell in Shadowbane, the carebears provided a stark contrast to the kill kill kill gameplay, adding depth to the playerbase. To DAOC it almost added a role-playing edges unbeknownst to the general population; that by fighting in realm vs realm you were protecting these valient souls that decided to farm all day long for that special sword.
Darkfall, in some regards, hints that they recognize this. The so-called savior for hardcore PVPers nonchalantly cuddles up next to the aforementioned Carebear, using them as merchants and hunters. How about the pvp servers on WoW? Isn't it fun to ruin that guy's day that can't get that certain quest cause you keep killing him?
But Carebears are more than ample fodder for you're prepubescent need for violence. Carebears provide that ying to your yang. It provides that milk to your Oreo. It tells you that there's more to your world that people that want to kill you. That makes the game epic. That makes the game a world. More that that, it makes the game something you might someday cherish.
Keep playing
-Syloc of The Silent Brotherhood, Wrath Server, Shadowbane.
Visit My fantasy Blog! http://fantasyglobe.blogspot.com/
Comments
Every perp needs a victim, every foot needs an ass, every game needs carebears.
That kinda took me back.
You've been watching too much Southpark. That kinda stuff doesn't happen in WoW.
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That kinda took me back.
You've been watching too much Southpark. That kinda stuff doesn't happen in WoW.
you know there is stuff like very loong escort quests?
now imagine the guy gets killed right before the end...
how much time do you think did he lost?
oh and there are quests which cant be repeated after failure
so if someone kills you...
hf
Pi*1337/100 = 42
The problem for the PKer/ganker is that the situation is asymmetrical. He needs the carebear, but the carebear most definitely does not need him. So, this presents a conundrum, not to the carebear, who can happily exist on a PVE-only server or in a PVE-only zone or with the PVE-only flag up... but for the guy looking for victims.
The real question is not "why should a PKer want to share space/servers/etc with a carebear?" because of course he does... those are his targets. The question, instead, is "Why should the carebear want to share space/servers/etc with the bully of a PKer?" and the answer, as far as I can see, for the vast majority of carebears would be... we don't.
C
The type of troubled and mindless ganker who really needs to learn this lesson has neither the wit nor the urge to read anything so complex as your post.
Unfortunately it is also this type who have forced the devs to cripple PvP in games to such an extent that even us carebear types find the majority of MMORPG's today dull and lifeless after a couple of months.
Although I love the ganking, that kind of play did have severe limitations. Not that it got boring because, let's face it, the private cussing messages were by far worth the trouble of hunting the carebear down... but it degraded the game. People started to quit, there really wasn't any point. Hell if it wasn't me, it would have been someone else hunting them down.
But in all honesty, Carebears give more than just mindless fodder. Nullapex goes on the right point that it somewhat ruins the game. I've always felt that PvP ALONE can't make a game because the game devolves into a first person shooter/ xbox game. The MMO, however flawed it might be, needs that pve aspect to keep it in the "epic" feel.
God knows all the developers out there agree with this sentiment, prefering to go the route of EQ clone 26 released in November and EQ clone 100 released in January.
-Syloc of Shadowbane
Visit My fantasy Blog! http://fantasyglobe.blogspot.com/
Hmm, congratulations Syloc, you just made it into my personal list of asshole gankers. PvP is not about repeatedly killing someone that has no desire whatsoever to participate. People like you give the rest of us who actually want a challenge in PVP a bad name, and forced the "carebear" market to search for non PVP games. Since they also make up the by far majority of gamers, publishers obliged, essentially ruining the market for us.
Player versus player means all combatants are quite willing to strive for victory and if neccesary die, not one prick chasing down and killing some guy whos doing his best to run away. Don't call yourself a PvPer, its an insult to the rest of us.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
QFT
I used to enjoy both PvE and PvP games, but gave up PvP because of behviour such as this, and indeed I now vote in favour of PvE in gaming polls etc because, again, of moronic behaviour such as Syloc's.
PvP gankers = bullies.
Its sickening really when some PvPers actually like a challenge and get their name sullied by mindless ganking by people who only want to piss off as many people as possible, always lower level than themselves (something to do with not getting hugs from their dads when young I think).
In a lot of ways the WoW battlegrounds is un attractive to these gankers and moan about it because they are quite frankly terrible at PvP when faced with equal ability.
So instead of trying to be better at it, they say it has no goal and has no freedom. In reality it should give them as much PvP as they would ever want.
I don't play WoW anymore, I have only done BG a few times, I am mainly a PvEer unless its defending my home town and am glad the care bears have spoken by boycotting PvP games designed for the gankers.
Bring back real PvP I say and let the gankers go home and cry to mummy.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
I enjoy FFA PvP with looting because it gives me a challenge. The adrenaline rush it great, and knowing that you could actually lose something makes it worth it. It has nothing to do with running around ganking lowbies or any of that crap. It has everything to do with the community created in FFA PvP games, where you rely on your friends to back you up and help you when you're in trouble.
If you get knocked down, you either get back on your feet and try again, or you get someone to help you. True 'hardcore PvPers' are in it for the challenge, and most importantly the honor and respect of other players when they know that you are indeed better than them.
This was one of the greatest things back in the days of AC when red PK was still popular. 75% of the PKers were honorable. You could gank someone and not loot them, and it was a show of respect as an honorable person.. a way of saying "Hey.. no hard feelings eh?" But now, all people look at are the groups of people who run around wanting to kill people just because they can, because there are no penalties associated with it. Because they want to ruin the experience of another gamer.
I would bet that if a game with good gameplay came out, and they had FFA PvP -with- looting, it would have a huge playerbase. Yeah, you will always have your asshats in games like that, but the majority of the community is going to be great. The best part about those games was that if you started killing random people just because you could, your name got out there and people treated you differently. You'd be treated like an outcast if you were an ass to people.
Thank god Darkfall won't have auto-targeting. Now those mean 'PK gankers' will actually need skill to beat people,and not just a superior level/gear (whoops! Darkfall doesn't have levels either. And gear won't be the major factor!) advantage so they can 1-hit kill,emote/laugh and move on. Oh no,they'll need to use their brains for once,and skill. So Johnny Carebear may yet survive.
'Carebears' do not need 'PK gankers' directly,but after a while even the most hardcore 'carebear' must grow tired of 'grinding' the the same old spots for the same old reagants so they can go spend 3 hours grinding the same old instances. PvP adds the extra thrill,whether loot is dropped or not,of 'making' it to the grind spot,and then keeping your alertness of the surroundings. (unless there's 'stealth' rogues/other,in which case you just need to be prepared for when they strike) And then there's the anti-PK response from the community,which encourages people to PK for the 'greater good'.
So in a way,carebears DO need 'PK gankers',if only for sheer entertainment purposes once they're tired of grinding craftmanship over and over without any thrill to it.
Actually, I think PvP concepts like Guildwars' are very fun, where the PvE is totally excluded from the PvP experience, like in SWG restuss or WoW battlegrounds...
You can VERY easily implement this concept on a fun and more distinct level, like implementing REAL contested areas that save you time as a shortcut or give you a buff on passing through, or sieges where faction-combat occurs. You can include penalties for that anytime (although I think itemloss is pretty stupid because you cant get "right back to the action"; something equivalent would suit this though, like PvP-Points that actually MEAN something [not like WoW]).
There are tons of possibilities to exclude gankers even in a FFA-PvP game. Questmarkers for example, if someone is currently doing a quest (marker has a timer of course) he cannot be attacked but HAS to do that quest in a given time, or level restricted PvP, like players that are not within a 5-level range cannot be attacked, or that player is marked KoS by every guard in every settlement in the gameworld.
I actually DO think WoW PvP is wonderful fun, because you can have a slaughterfest lasting 10 hours just for the fun of it... which I did quite often back in my WoW days, it was, till I ran out of things to do PvE, great fun...
Meridion
"Why PvPers Need Carebears" OP, I really get tired of this title being applied as some type of stigma to be ashamed of I'm a Carebear and quiet happy to say so. This however doesn't mean that I don't PvP when the situation is appropriate meaning both parties are in the appropriate level range. A player that purposely goes to and area frequented by players so inferior to them in reagrd to level to the point that they have no risk to themselves is purely an asshat and needs to take a long hard look in the mirror. There is no justification in such activity, opposition groups that band together and have a much lower level party member with them to give that member undeserved credit for vanquishing players needs to be addressed by developers as well.
The notion that players will police this type of activity themselves is rediculous since we all have our own adgenda's we are working toward. Why would I take time out of my gaming experience to run to the aid of players who are being victimised when the only reward for doing so is the occaisional insincere thank you if I'm lucky? I think the idea of being able to loot the vanquished player is as just plain wrong, they played hard for what they have as have I and I don't see the validity of taking it from them, if a game subscribes to that sort of thing I simply don't play it.
I would like to see harsher penalties for the gank oriented PKer since a lot of fixes may be out of reach software wise for this type of activity, the idea of guards of all factions being toggled to attack them would be a start. Negative ranking for each PK below a set level to the degree it has an impact, in regard to the composition of a party if one player is above a certain threshold then no one in the party gets credit for a kill and for those it applies to the negative ranking be applied etc... There are numerous ideas to put the PKer/ganker back in his bottle, I'd just like to see some come into play.
I like checking peoples user info when they make comments like this, just to see if the stereotype is right in how certain people are tagged.
anyway, according to your info you're 39 years old. is this how you get off, for real, when you game?
lol.. if the comment you made that I quoted doesnt scream real life inadequacy, I dont know what does. This type of insecurity is common in teenagers, but a 39 year old man should have more confidence in himself and feel better about himself then to have the highlight of his day what you said above.
call me crazy, but I actually find it fun helping someone out in a quest then doing what you rather enjoy.
then again, theres the other stereotype about 39 year old men living in their parents basement playing MMO's 24/7
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
I have done quite a bit of martial arts/wrestling etc. You would be surprised how many mild mannered accountants and patent office clerks would kick the living s**t out of you in real life.
Carebears, hah. People who think they are hardcore in any gaming environment are rather sad but the some of the PvPers are probably the funniest because they are just so wrong. Its amazing how unrealistic combat breeds unrealistic expectations. Ah well.
its true. when ia mout there fighting for MID or HIB*fuge the ALBS lol* i get a carebear to bring me stuff liek armor if i need it or weps. ot even for them to jump out there real fast so peopel will pop and i will go out there and blast away lol. so ya we do need them for bait or just foer them to carry our stuff lmao.
get your carebear today!!!!! only 140 gold that si right people only 140 gold!!!!!! *pluse shiping and handling*
warning this company is not in fault if yours dies,leaves you or logs off or is just not on ^_^
thanks you come again!!
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Which FF Character Are You?
I fully enjoy killing people for fun and pissing them off, I don't do it to piss them off but I love it when they do get pissed off lol. I do it mostly for the challenge, like right now in EVE I'm in the process of setting up a PVP Solo Frig to pirate some nice ratters.
I don't feel inadequate in anything I do in life. It's just more fun and challenging than killing a brainless mob with a predictable AI 100,000,000 times till my eyes bleed and I get carpal tunnel in my mouse hand.
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See I usually go the other way. I wait for someone to call me a Carebear, completely admit to it, completely agree that they sooooo cool because they call themselves Hardcore PVP'ers, then I destroy them and every bit of ego they thought they had, while taking every single ounce of self respect they enjoyed.
I then invite them to a Vent server and laugh at them because they got beat down by a girl. While I don't find this particular comedic myself this is usually where the 16 year old boy has a fit and shows just how little intelligence is involved with those that go around spouting the words like Carebear, pwnd and the like.
Let's be honest here, people who call themselves these so called "Hardcore PVP'ers" and can't stop calling people who dont' agree with them "Carebears" are just excersising another form of egotistical masturbation. It's delusionary self involvement in it's lowest form, it's pathetic, it's sad and most notably it's laughable by the rest of us that get it.
What do we get? We get that we're all gamers, we get that we're not better then anyone else and we get that you don't get it and we also get that it's funny as hell on that one point alone.
So by all means, call me a Carebear, go right ahead and assume that makes you better then I, please please pleasse assume that I'm fodder for the taking, that makes the game epic for me and mine also. And trust me, I don't have to wait for "someday" to cherish it, I enjoy it everytime I log in and every time I read it on the forums.
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Shae,
and what game do you do this in?
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Name it.
I've had the same point of view about this dumb ass "Carebear Vs. HardCore PVP'er" thing since it's been out. Any game that I've played that has had open PVP, I've always acted the same way. I cut my MMO teeth on Lineage 1 where you had no choice but to protect yourself, do you think I consider myself a hardcore pvp'er because of that? Hell no.
Lineage 2 was the same thing, SWG back when PvP'ing meant something, WoW was a cakewalk after those esperiences and DAoC RVR was a breeze, I've never thought myself better for any of it though.
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Ganking can be fun, but only when your ganking the "1337." Take SWG, pre-NGE. If you were a BH you experienced the BEST ganking content ever.
Here is what I did:
1- I would sit right in the space port with my novice carbineer tag up.
2- I would watch the combat tab and listen to music.
3- When two jedi started dueling, I would then go to the terms to find one of the jedi's missions.
4- I would wait until one of the jedi get's incapped twice.
5- I would then nuke my target to hell.
It is not fun killing a powerless target, but ganking a powerful target who is ruining immersion, that is the best thing in the world
Edit- That is what I really mean...
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
And this is the one common denominator that I find holds true across this funny little spectrum of Gankers/PK'ers/Campers/Hardcore PVP'ers.
It's not that you all enjoy actually beating another player at whatever game your playing together, very seldomly is that enough for you, it's that you actually take pleasure in ruining someone elses enjoyment and experience, either by frustrating them or taking away something they enjoy.
It's a much more real, visceral behavior for you. It's almost as if the act of just beating someone at the game has somehow lost it's pontency and something more needs to be incorporated to get any sort of self satisfaction.
Or maybe it's just that your jerks and naturally it's going to flow into a your virtual-digital self.
For myself, I don't even mind the behavior, if anything I tend to agree with the OP that adds a bit of flavor to what can sometimes be a stale experience of an MMO and it always provides the more less agressive, mature among us with a good laugh but in the end, it's also a little sad, pathetic almost.
Anyways, to each their own, that's the trick. We all seek what we want from these games, or else only one MMO would ever be needed. Sometimes those needs are going to conflict with someone elses and that's fine, we have to grow up eventually and realize that in the growing world of online gaming, this is going to happen more and more. I just wish that we would accept those changes, move on and stop giving ourselves these tittles and holding them against each other.
Because really, don't we have enough dividing us in the real world, do we really have to start giving ourselves completely useless titles to judge ourselves by in the virutal world we play just so we can cope?
You'd think we'd learn from our mistakes already...
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