SARCASIM-> Yeah, 10 groups of Jedi dueling infront of the Coronet Starport causing lag and an eyesore should not be ganked.
Yes I did enjoy hunting Jedi and I did enjoy turning their dangelies in a knot because I beat their "Alpha Class" toon. Yes it is funny using the combat system's cheap tactics to take down the uber template/class. Killing a powerless n00b on the otherhand is quite boring. I want to kill the best and to be hated in game.
It's bad enough MMORPG's are trying to force you into guilds where some 15 year old leader with a powertrip rules over the guild like a mad tyrant. It's bad enough MMORPG's keep pushing foward linear crap that just creates a boring grind and nothing more. It's bad enough that you have to deal with players who take dying way too seriously in MMORPG's.
But saying I can't gank these annoyances because I harm their game play, well that is a two way street.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii. --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses. --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence! --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
I play on the DAoC classic servers, and I find that everyone out in rvr is there to fight against other players. Some are there for the rps (most really), but some are there to go up against other skilled players. I had a great time last night on the island, Agramon, going 8v8. We had some long fights too, one lasted long enough for me ld mid fight and get logged back in game, and my group still managed to win. Needless to say as a pvper I play not to kill people who don't want to pvp, but to test my skills, and get better. It's a lot of fun knowing that you outplayed another group.
People like Syloc suck at real pvp. And the more they simply try to kill lower level players, and players who don't really want to engage in pvp the worse they get. When they encounter a situation where they have to fight truely skilled players over before they know what happened.
It is pathos we lack, and this lack of pathos makes the worlds we explore quite stale.
Originally posted by Aelfinn Hmm, congratulations Syloc, you just made it into my personal list of asshole gankers. PvP is not about repeatedly killing someone that has no desire whatsoever to participate. People like you give the rest of us who actually want a challenge in PVP a bad name, and forced the "carebear" market to search for non PVP games. Since they also make up the by far majority of gamers, publishers obliged, essentially ruining the market for us. Player versus player means all combatants are quite willing to strive for victory and if neccesary die, not one prick chasing down and killing some guy whos doing his best to run away. Don't call yourself a PvPer, its an insult to the rest of us.
Well said.
You are the sort of PVPer that I, as someone who normally doesn't engage in PVP, would be happy to duel honorably (and probably lose, hehe, but that's OK), and more than happy to share a server with. And that, BTW, is why I specifically pointed my comments to PK-gankers, and NOT generically to all PVPers. Because in my experience the vast majority of people who like PVP, are like you.
Originally posted by Suitepee 'Carebears' do not need 'PK gankers' directly,but after a while even the most hardcore 'carebear' must grow tired of 'grinding' the the same old spots for the same old reagants so they can go spend 3 hours grinding the same old instances. PvP adds the extra thrill,whether loot is dropped or not,of 'making' it to the grind spot,and then keeping your alertness of the surroundings.
This shows a monumental misunderstanding of the carebear attitude. Let me explain.
Most of us (not all, of course), avoid PVP in part because what you define as "the thrill" (of PVP), we find not the least bit thrilling at all. I play games to relax and have fun, NOT to be constantly "on edge" wondering if the next ganker is going to be around the corner.
So no, I don't need PK gankers at all... not one bit. I played SWG happily for 1.5 years without ever engaging in their factional PVP system, either as an overt (always PVP-on) or covert (PVP-flagged for brief periods) rebel or imperial. I played a character who was 100% neutral, 100% of the time, and thus 100% PVE. I never got bored. I played COH for over a year after PVP came out (just cancelled this month). I have never set foot in a PVP zone. When I got tired of the PVE, I did not go looking for PVP for a thrill -- I switched games (to the Saga of Ryzom, which has PVP, but which has a flag, and mine is set OFF, period, in perpetuity).
What's the "thrill" to a carebear? It varies, but whatever it is, you can rest assured it is NOT the chance of being ganked. The whole idea of being a carebear is that you are someone who does not want to be ganked and takes great pains to protect yourself from it -- usually, by finding a zone, server, or flag setting that makes ganking impossible.
Remember... if we wanted "the thrill of possibly being ganked" most of us would not be "carebears" in the first place. So you're barking up the wrong tree here. It's like saying that law-abiding citizens really "need" there to be muggers, theives, and muderers out there so we wouldn't be bored.
No, we don't need that... and neither do carebears need gankers.
No i'm not 39, there's just something about online information that makes me want to lie... maybe it's just me.
In any regard I think the interpretation of, "What is pvp" is relative. This is the same argument people make for intelligence. Some people think it's the quantifying and reasoning of information while other cultures regard respect and well being as a measure of intelligence. So does PvP integrate into this perspective.
The reality is that different people take Player Vs Player differently. Some people play straight up team versus team while others prefer to gank. And some, like me, like to do both. Now i'm not advocating that ganking is the only way to pvp but once in awhile, I prefer to do just that. Don't get me wrong, I love the lore aspect and sometimes i delve into roleplaying but i do like to just kick back, drink a soda, and fool around.
To expect people to delegate into perfect parties into perfect fair battles is just a major mistake. No one should tell you how to play the game and, by limiting your options, it just restricts the player to how they prefer to play the game.
But the everlasting AFFRONT everyone's screaming about is total nonsense. OF COURSE YOU GUYS NEED GANKERS! I'm not saying you need to be victimized repeadily, but these days people demand that a great mmorpg need not be just pvp or just pve but a combination of both. That's why DAOC is still supporting decent pops and Shadowbane/Carebear games have a hard time of finding an audience after the inital rush is over.
I'm tired of these games that decidly market to only one particular way of playing. It's either they force me to pvp 24/7 or to pve 24/7, and no don't give me some crapass battleground and attempt to tell me that it's anything like pvp. DAOC, in this way, accomplished this. (but the trendmill took away any advantage that it might have had over other games)
I'm sorry but I don't know about you... but my mood changes with what I feel like doing. It's the freedom that I like, to craft and hunt for that special monster or, if my heart desires, take out my sword of vampire's bite and hunt down some thieves.
I have a short attention span like that. No i'm not 39.
Originally posted by Syloc But the everlasting AFFRONT everyone's screaming about is total nonsense. OF COURSE YOU GUYS NEED GANKERS! I'm not saying you need to be victimized repeadily, but these days people demand that a great mmorpg need not be just pvp or just pve but a combination of both. That's why DAOC is still supporting decent pops and Shadowbane/Carebear games have a hard time of finding an audience after the inital rush is over.
EQ has more subscribers than DAOC and is an older 'carebear' game.
Carebears say they dont want to be hunted in the games by kill hungry pvpers. But the truth is that the game is boring without us trying to frag you all the time.
Originally posted by OrangeSpork But the truth is that the game is boring without us trying to frag you all the time.
Only to you. It's just like Chessack said - you haven't got the faintest idea about the mindset of a PvE player. For us, what is boring is EXACTLY what you think of as the "thrill", and vice versa. I couldn't possibly think of anything more boring than having some 10 year old interrupt my gameplay by killing my avatar for no reason. I avoid all PvP because quite simply, I have nothing to gain from it regardless if I win or lose. It's kinda like watching soap operas: in theory I could do it, but in practice the sheer boredom and total lack of meaning would cause me a great deal of discomfort.
PvPer's who create these threads, they really just dont understand a very basic concept.
You will never get sympathy or understanding for your cause when you constantly belittle the vast majority of the gaming community by insulting them with a derogatory term.
Drop the name calling and the ridiculous aggressive posturing and maybe, just maybe, people will consider you worth taking seriously.
Originally posted by Tamalan You will never get sympathty or understanding for your cause when you constantly belittle the vast majority of the gaming community by insulting them with a derogatory term.
True; if every PvE player is a "carebear", then every PvP player is a "ganker".
Originally posted by Syloc I'm tired of these games that decidly market to only one particular way of playing.
In my city, there is basically only one person who starts up new night clubs. The problem is, every one of them is the same; mainstream pop / hiphop music, neutral interior, MTV culture. None of these places has a personality; it doesn't make any difference which one you go to, just as it doesn't matter which McDonalds you eat in. What "something for everyone" actually comes down to is, "not enough for anyone". I would select a PvE-only game over a mixture of PvP and PvE any time because the lack of PvP would finally allow some things that are not possible in mixed environments.
Oh and btw: Shadowbane is pure, unlimited PvP, not PvE... and DAOC is only ever really mentioned in terms of RvR...
Originally posted by Syloc I'm tired of these games that decidly market to only one particular way of playing.
In my city, there is basically only one person who starts up new night clubs. The problem is, every one of them is the same; mainstream pop / hiphop music, neutral interior, MTV culture. None of these places has a personality; it doesn't make any difference which one you go to, just as it doesn't matter which McDonalds you eat in. What "something for everyone" actually comes down to is, "not enough for anyone". I would select a PvE-only game over a mixture of PvP and PvE any time because the lack of PvP would finally allow some things that are not possible in mixed environments.
Oh and btw: Shadowbane is pure, unlimited PvP, not PvE... and DAOC is only ever really mentioned in terms of RvR...
Im going to disagree with you on one point here, and its a matter of opinion. Pure PvE and PvP game are BOTH lacking substance, and I dont mean a lack of kickable arses. Pure PvE games are often flat and stale, pure PvP chaotic and full to the brim with immaturity. I would love to see a true mix coming out again, but as long as gankers dominate the face of what is commonly called "PvP", it will never happen.
Age of Conan might have hit on something, by entirely seperating PvP and PvE skill sets, loot tables and zones, while still forcing them to interact through the medium of crafted Equipment/weapons being the best gear around, which is part of why ive been following its development so closely.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
Originally posted by Syloc Ever feel the perpetual need to ravage that treehugger over and over again with a sharp metal object? Or how about that jackas that spams the DAOC chat with, "I don't realm vs realm, I just craft?"
What's funny is that, despite the horrid difference between pvpers and carebears, there's an addition that that carebear community gives pvp. Hell in Shadowbane, the carebears provided a stark contrast to the kill kill kill gameplay, adding depth to the playerbase. To DAOC it almost added a role-playing edges unbeknownst to the general population; that by fighting in realm vs realm you were protecting these valient souls that decided to farm all day long for that special sword.
Darkfall, in some regards, hints that they recognize this. The so-called savior for hardcore PVPers nonchalantly cuddles up next to the aforementioned Carebear, using them as merchants and hunters. How about the pvp servers on WoW? Isn't it fun to ruin that guy's day that can't get that certain quest cause you keep killing him?
But Carebears are more than ample fodder for you're prepubescent need for violence. Carebears provide that ying to your yang. It provides that milk to your Oreo. It tells you that there's more to your world that people that want to kill you. That makes the game epic. That makes the game a world. More that that, it makes the game something you might someday cherish.
Keep playing
-Syloc of The Silent Brotherhood, Wrath Server, Shadowbane.
[quote]Originally posted by SlyFoo whats carebear?[/b][/quote]
It's a fairly meaningless derogatory term. Often it's used as a substitute for 'PVE', and to label players who prefer PVE over PVP. But it can also be used to cover anyone who doens't like the exact form of PVP that you do, for example people who don't like full-loot in their pvp are often called 'carebears' too. Oddly enough, 'hardcore' PVPers are actually carebears, since they don't want full consequences in PVP, I've never heard one argue in favor of permadeath.
Originally posted by SlyFoo Originally posted by Syloc
whats carebear? Paranoid schizophrenic who get emotionally stressed when their character dies because of something another player has done either directly or indirectly to them. Nervous breakdowns/ADHD and whiny posts about gankers flood the messageboards everytime they lose an item they worked hard to get.
Usually end up cancelling all 30 accounts and deleting character which forces the developers to rethink gameplay and change code to try to bring them back.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Originally posted by Briansho Paranoid schizophrenic who get emotionally stressed when their character dies because of something another player has done either directly or indirectly to them. Nervous breakdowns/ADHD and whiny posts about gankers flood the messageboards everytime they lose an item they worked hard to get.
Even your avatar makes it pretty obvious to me that it's you who is in need of medical help, not the ones you blame for thinking that there is something wrong with just taking by force what others have worked hard to achieve. If everyone thought the same way, the only skill anyone would ever bother learning is how to kill others. If PvP looting is allowed, it should only affect items that have themselves been gained through PvP; otherwise everything else becomes pointless.
Originally posted by Briansho Originally posted by SlyFoo Originally posted by Syloc
whats carebear? Paranoid schizophrenic who get emotionally stressed when their character dies because of something another player has done either directly or indirectly to them. Nervous breakdowns/ADHD and whiny posts about gankers flood the messageboards everytime they lose an item they worked hard to get.
Usually end up cancelling all 30 accounts and deleting character which forces the developers to rethink gameplay and change code to try to bring them back. I have never met a "carebear" like that, nor does being a Carebear really mean that. Since it is obvious you gank I would assume you would be more polite to people who consider themselves Carebears, because obviously you lack the skills to win in a fair fight.
Your probably one of those guys who complain to developers about not being able to go to newbie zones and kill players who just started out and who are the lowest level.
Maybe the same type who only attack players who are a level lower than you and who are fighting a NPC in order to get that "real" challenge.
95% of pvp players are the ones who make pvp fun. It's the other 5% that makes ffa pvp almost impossible to create for a developer because that 5% will abuse anything they can in the game just to gank around.
Even with games like roma Victor, Lineage 2, Guild Wars, WW2 Online, Planetside, and many mroe you just cant help but whine your ass off to the casual player, who, after 8 hours of working in some forsaken office/factory/Resteraunt (:P) just wants to wind down with a nice game, He plays it cause its got awesome raiding, crafting, and optional PvP...but it also has the FFA PvP...
So he's out looting and leveling when someone 30 levels over him, clad in Tier 50 armor with a sword of +5000 pwnz comes in, kills him, spends 5 minutes spouting incomprehensible vulgarity, loots him for the hell of it, and runs off laughing "PWNED". Guy leaves game, a few thousand other players follow suit, game dies.
Point is, some of us play a FFA PvP games becuase ot has elements other games don't have. then again, PvP in an mmorpg is pretty much a sham, if you want REAL PvP play an fps or mmofps.
People claim "carebears" whine endlessly, when mmorpg.com manages to get a topic a week abotu soem teenage-yound adult basement dweller whining on why they hate "carebears", why they need to die/how to kill them, or some other pile of idiocy.
and as a previous poster said, you dare call yourself a real pvper?
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
Originally posted by Syloc You should reread what I posted because that's exactly what I said. And geeze are you a plant or something? Go advertise somewhere else plz =( -Syloc
No, that is far from what you said. While the theme of pure PvE and PvP games lacking something is a common element, the reasons for that are quite different.
Your claim is that PvPers need lots of targets, lots of weak "treehuggers" to hunt down and destroy for the sheer pleasure of it. You additional claim is that said "carebears" need to be hunted down to break up the monotany of the endless grind you seem convinced they are constantly bored of.
Niether of these statements are remotely true. Especcially on the PvEers part, with a very few exceptions, no one enjoys getting ravaged "over and over again with a sharp metal object", or being unable to complete a quest because some prick is deliberately preventing him from doing it. And no one I have ever met that you would call a "carebear" wants anything other than controlled conditions, in other words, no bastards hiding in the bushes waiting to onehit kill him.
As for PvPers, dont you damn well dare claim to speak for the rest of us, ganker. As I stated before, player versus player involves willing participants on both sides of the fight, and certainly does not cover you cutting down the guy forty levels below you just because you can.
As to your last statement, I'm no plant. The game has damn good potential, and its not exactly like I'm the only one "advertising" for a game they like.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
Read the whole thing if you're going to post. You're just reading what you want to hear and nothing else. I said MMOs need both and that the ganker ideal alone can't sustain a game. (as has been proved by sb, d&L, etc etc)
"Your claim is that PvPers need lots of targets, lots of weak "treehuggers" to hunt down and destroy for the sheer pleasure of it. "
Is an ignorant statement by a guy that just wants to flame without reading something context. Reading the first sentence alone does not give understanding in a whole post. Maybe, instead of planting what you've been instructed to plant, you should take your time... and get it right.
Do you want to argue for the sake of aruging? There's plenty of stuff on the web to do that. In any case, let this thread die! It's been long sinced ganked fromt he main topic. hehe
Originally posted by Syloc I said MMOs need both and that the ganker ideal alone can't sustain a game.
I agree with you on the last part, but not the first part. PvE players don't need PvP players any more than sheep need wolves, and PvP players should not need PvE players as victims either. I never PvP myself, but I can respect motives like "thrill of danger" or "challenge" when both sides clearly enjoy it and allow it - but I disagree with your opinion that every good MMO must cater to that specific type of player. PvP is _always_ harmful in a PvE setting.
Syloc, is that really your only defense? Insinuating that I'm a plant of some kind? Rather weak If you ask me. Answer me directly instead of trying to undermine my character.
Originally posted by Jade6
Originally posted by Syloc I said MMOs need both and that the ganker ideal alone can't sustain a game.
I agree with you on the last part, but not the first part. PvE players don't need PvP players any more than sheep need wolves, and PvP players should not need PvE players as victims either. I never PvP myself, but I can respect motives like "thrill of danger" or "challenge" when both sides clearly enjoy it and allow it - but I disagree with your opinion that every good MMO must cater to that specific type of player. PvP is _always_ harmful in a PvE setting.
I agree with you, right up to the last sentance. PvP is not always harmfull in that setting, it isnt however necessarily benificial either.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
Comments
Yes I did enjoy hunting Jedi and I did enjoy turning their dangelies in a knot because I beat their "Alpha Class" toon. Yes it is funny using the combat system's cheap tactics to take down the uber template/class. Killing a powerless n00b on the otherhand is quite boring. I want to kill the best and to be hated in game.
It's bad enough MMORPG's are trying to force you into guilds where some 15 year old leader with a powertrip rules over the guild like a mad tyrant. It's bad enough MMORPG's keep pushing foward linear crap that just creates a boring grind and nothing more. It's bad enough that you have to deal with players who take dying way too seriously in MMORPG's.
But saying I can't gank these annoyances because I harm their game play, well that is a two way street.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
People like Syloc suck at real pvp. And the more they simply try to kill lower level players, and players who don't really want to engage in pvp the worse they get. When they encounter a situation where they have to fight truely skilled players over before they know what happened.
It is pathos we lack, and this lack of pathos makes the worlds we explore quite stale.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Antioche
You are the sort of PVPer that I, as someone who normally doesn't engage in PVP, would be happy to duel honorably (and probably lose, hehe, but that's OK), and more than happy to share a server with. And that, BTW, is why I specifically pointed my comments to PK-gankers, and NOT generically to all PVPers. Because in my experience the vast majority of people who like PVP, are like you.
*bows deeply*
C
Most of us (not all, of course), avoid PVP in part because what you define as "the thrill" (of PVP), we find not the least bit thrilling at all. I play games to relax and have fun, NOT to be constantly "on edge" wondering if the next ganker is going to be around the corner.
So no, I don't need PK gankers at all... not one bit. I played SWG happily for 1.5 years without ever engaging in their factional PVP system, either as an overt (always PVP-on) or covert (PVP-flagged for brief periods) rebel or imperial. I played a character who was 100% neutral, 100% of the time, and thus 100% PVE. I never got bored. I played COH for over a year after PVP came out (just cancelled this month). I have never set foot in a PVP zone. When I got tired of the PVE, I did not go looking for PVP for a thrill -- I switched games (to the Saga of Ryzom, which has PVP, but which has a flag, and mine is set OFF, period, in perpetuity).
What's the "thrill" to a carebear? It varies, but whatever it is, you can rest assured it is NOT the chance of being ganked. The whole idea of being a carebear is that you are someone who does not want to be ganked and takes great pains to protect yourself from it -- usually, by finding a zone, server, or flag setting that makes ganking impossible.
Remember... if we wanted "the thrill of possibly being ganked" most of us would not be "carebears" in the first place. So you're barking up the wrong tree here. It's like saying that law-abiding citizens really "need" there to be muggers, theives, and muderers out there so we wouldn't be bored.
No, we don't need that... and neither do carebears need gankers.
C
No i'm not 39, there's just something about online information that makes me want to lie... maybe it's just me.
In any regard I think the interpretation of, "What is pvp" is relative. This is the same argument people make for intelligence. Some people think it's the quantifying and reasoning of information while other cultures regard respect and well being as a measure of intelligence. So does PvP integrate into this perspective.
The reality is that different people take Player Vs Player differently. Some people play straight up team versus team while others prefer to gank. And some, like me, like to do both. Now i'm not advocating that ganking is the only way to pvp but once in awhile, I prefer to do just that. Don't get me wrong, I love the lore aspect and sometimes i delve into roleplaying but i do like to just kick back, drink a soda, and fool around.
To expect people to delegate into perfect parties into perfect fair battles is just a major mistake. No one should tell you how to play the game and, by limiting your options, it just restricts the player to how they prefer to play the game.
But the everlasting AFFRONT everyone's screaming about is total nonsense. OF COURSE YOU GUYS NEED GANKERS! I'm not saying you need to be victimized repeadily, but these days people demand that a great mmorpg need not be just pvp or just pve but a combination of both. That's why DAOC is still supporting decent pops and Shadowbane/Carebear games have a hard time of finding an audience after the inital rush is over.
I'm tired of these games that decidly market to only one particular way of playing. It's either they force me to pvp 24/7 or to pve 24/7, and no don't give me some crapass battleground and attempt to tell me that it's anything like pvp. DAOC, in this way, accomplished this. (but the trendmill took away any advantage that it might have had over other games)
I'm sorry but I don't know about you... but my mood changes with what I feel like doing. It's the freedom that I like, to craft and hunt for that special monster or, if my heart desires, take out my sword of vampire's bite and hunt down some thieves.
I have a short attention span like that. No i'm not 39.
-Syloc
Visit My fantasy Blog! http://fantasyglobe.blogspot.com/
EQ has more subscribers than DAOC and is an older 'carebear' game.
Only to you. It's just like Chessack said - you haven't got the faintest idea about the mindset of a PvE player. For us, what is boring is EXACTLY what you think of as the "thrill", and vice versa. I couldn't possibly think of anything more boring than having some 10 year old interrupt my gameplay by killing my avatar for no reason. I avoid all PvP because quite simply, I have nothing to gain from it regardless if I win or lose. It's kinda like watching soap operas: in theory I could do it, but in practice the sheer boredom and total lack of meaning would cause me a great deal of discomfort.
PvPer's who create these threads, they really just dont understand a very basic concept.
You will never get sympathy or understanding for your cause when you constantly belittle the vast majority of the gaming community by insulting them with a derogatory term.
Drop the name calling and the ridiculous aggressive posturing and maybe, just maybe, people will consider you worth taking seriously.
In my city, there is basically only one person who starts up new night clubs. The problem is, every one of them is the same; mainstream pop / hiphop music, neutral interior, MTV culture. None of these places has a personality; it doesn't make any difference which one you go to, just as it doesn't matter which McDonalds you eat in. What "something for everyone" actually comes down to is, "not enough for anyone". I would select a PvE-only game over a mixture of PvP and PvE any time because the lack of PvP would finally allow some things that are not possible in mixed environments.
Oh and btw: Shadowbane is pure, unlimited PvP, not PvE... and DAOC is only ever really mentioned in terms of RvR...
In my city, there is basically only one person who starts up new night clubs. The problem is, every one of them is the same; mainstream pop / hiphop music, neutral interior, MTV culture. None of these places has a personality; it doesn't make any difference which one you go to, just as it doesn't matter which McDonalds you eat in. What "something for everyone" actually comes down to is, "not enough for anyone". I would select a PvE-only game over a mixture of PvP and PvE any time because the lack of PvP would finally allow some things that are not possible in mixed environments.
Oh and btw: Shadowbane is pure, unlimited PvP, not PvE... and DAOC is only ever really mentioned in terms of RvR...
Im going to disagree with you on one point here, and its a matter of opinion. Pure PvE and PvP game are BOTH lacking substance, and I dont mean a lack of kickable arses. Pure PvE games are often flat and stale, pure PvP chaotic and full to the brim with immaturity. I would love to see a true mix coming out again, but as long as gankers dominate the face of what is commonly called "PvP", it will never happen.
Age of Conan might have hit on something, by entirely seperating PvP and PvE skill sets, loot tables and zones, while still forcing them to interact through the medium of crafted Equipment/weapons being the best gear around, which is part of why ive been following its development so closely.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
You should reread what I posted because that's exactly what I said.
And geeze are you a plant or something? Go advertise somewhere else plz =(
-Syloc
Visit My fantasy Blog! http://fantasyglobe.blogspot.com/
[quote]Originally posted by SlyFoo
whats carebear?[/b][/quote]
It's a fairly meaningless derogatory term. Often it's used as a substitute for 'PVE', and to label players who prefer PVE over PVP. But it can also be used to cover anyone who doens't like the exact form of PVP that you do, for example people who don't like full-loot in their pvp are often called 'carebears' too. Oddly enough, 'hardcore' PVPers are actually carebears, since they don't want full consequences in PVP, I've never heard one argue in favor of permadeath.
Paranoid schizophrenic who get emotionally stressed when their character dies because of something another player has done either directly or indirectly to them. Nervous breakdowns/ADHD and whiny posts about gankers flood the messageboards everytime they lose an item they worked hard to get.
Usually end up cancelling all 30 accounts and deleting character which forces the developers to rethink gameplay and change code to try to bring them back.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
blah
Paranoid schizophrenic who get emotionally stressed when their character dies because of something another player has done either directly or indirectly to them. Nervous breakdowns/ADHD and whiny posts about gankers flood the messageboards everytime they lose an item they worked hard to get.
Usually end up cancelling all 30 accounts and deleting character which forces the developers to rethink gameplay and change code to try to bring them back.
I have never met a "carebear" like that, nor does being a Carebear really mean that. Since it is obvious you gank I would assume you would be more polite to people who consider themselves Carebears, because obviously you lack the skills to win in a fair fight.
Your probably one of those guys who complain to developers about not being able to go to newbie zones and kill players who just started out and who are the lowest level.
Maybe the same type who only attack players who are a level lower than you and who are fighting a NPC in order to get that "real" challenge.
Even with games like roma Victor, Lineage 2, Guild Wars, WW2 Online, Planetside, and many mroe you just cant help but whine your ass off to the casual player, who, after 8 hours of working in some forsaken office/factory/Resteraunt (:P) just wants to wind down with a nice game, He plays it cause its got awesome raiding, crafting, and optional PvP...but it also has the FFA PvP...
So he's out looting and leveling when someone 30 levels over him, clad in Tier 50 armor with a sword of +5000 pwnz comes in, kills him, spends 5 minutes spouting incomprehensible vulgarity, loots him for the hell of it, and runs off laughing "PWNED". Guy leaves game, a few thousand other players follow suit, game dies.
Point is, some of us play a FFA PvP games becuase ot has elements other games don't have. then again, PvP in an mmorpg is pretty much a sham, if you want REAL PvP play an fps or mmofps.
People claim "carebears" whine endlessly, when mmorpg.com manages to get a topic a week abotu soem teenage-yound adult basement dweller whining on why they hate "carebears", why they need to die/how to kill them, or some other pile of idiocy.
and as a previous poster said, you dare call yourself a real pvper?
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
No, that is far from what you said. While the theme of pure PvE and PvP games lacking something is a common element, the reasons for that are quite different.
Your claim is that PvPers need lots of targets, lots of weak "treehuggers" to hunt down and destroy for the sheer pleasure of it. You additional claim is that said "carebears" need to be hunted down to break up the monotany of the endless grind you seem convinced they are constantly bored of.
Niether of these statements are remotely true. Especcially on the PvEers part, with a very few exceptions, no one enjoys getting ravaged "over and over again with a sharp metal object", or being unable to complete a quest because some prick is deliberately preventing him from doing it. And no one I have ever met that you would call a "carebear" wants anything other than controlled conditions, in other words, no bastards hiding in the bushes waiting to onehit kill him.
As for PvPers, dont you damn well dare claim to speak for the rest of us, ganker. As I stated before, player versus player involves willing participants on both sides of the fight, and certainly does not cover you cutting down the guy forty levels below you just because you can.
As to your last statement, I'm no plant. The game has damn good potential, and its not exactly like I'm the only one "advertising" for a game they like.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Read the whole thing if you're going to post. You're just reading what you want to hear and nothing else. I said MMOs need both and that the ganker ideal alone can't sustain a game. (as has been proved by sb, d&L, etc etc)
"Your claim is that PvPers need lots of targets, lots of weak "treehuggers" to hunt down and destroy for the sheer pleasure of it. "
Is an ignorant statement by a guy that just wants to flame without reading something context. Reading the first sentence alone does not give understanding in a whole post. Maybe, instead of planting what you've been instructed to plant, you should take your time... and get it right.
Do you want to argue for the sake of aruging? There's plenty of stuff on the web to do that. In any case, let this thread die!
It's been long sinced ganked fromt he main topic. hehe
-Syloc
Visit My fantasy Blog! http://fantasyglobe.blogspot.com/
I agree with you on the last part, but not the first part. PvE players don't need PvP players any more than sheep need wolves, and PvP players should not need PvE players as victims either. I never PvP myself, but I can respect motives like "thrill of danger" or "challenge" when both sides clearly enjoy it and allow it - but I disagree with your opinion that every good MMO must cater to that specific type of player. PvP is _always_ harmful in a PvE setting.
I agree with you on the last part, but not the first part. PvE players don't need PvP players any more than sheep need wolves, and PvP players should not need PvE players as victims either. I never PvP myself, but I can respect motives like "thrill of danger" or "challenge" when both sides clearly enjoy it and allow it - but I disagree with your opinion that every good MMO must cater to that specific type of player. PvP is _always_ harmful in a PvE setting.
I agree with you, right up to the last sentance. PvP is not always harmfull in that setting, it isnt however necessarily benificial either.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway