First of all WoW is not a copy of Warcraft3. I never liked Warcraft3 and I would never have tried WoW if i werent invited into beta, but I tried WoW in beta and it was nothing like Warcraft. Sure then name is there, some visuals are from Warcraft and names too, but the game is completely different. Its a MMORPG for christ's sake! It has no strategic unit control whatsoever (unless you call pet control strategic unit control).
Originally posted by Distortion0
"action-packed combat" If you like paying $15 pressing an auto-attack button then pressing several special skill buttons when they light up!
Cmon, its been said so many times, if i had a screenie from my rogue id post it to show u how many skills, clickies, talents, potions, items, spells i can have. My level 55 hunter has about 5 bars FULL of skills, items, potions and other stuff that i can use during combat and/or outside combat in order to attack something or do something beneficial for myself. If anything, WoW has sometimes too MANY skills that I could chose from. Often I lose myself in my options so I have to sort of make a pre-combat plan on what to use against what... but when combat starts, i forget to use a skill or two almost always, and when replaying encounter in my head I always come up with better methods of what I could of used/clicked/done for better outcome.
Heres the link for WoW numbers, as of Aug 2005, North America had over 1 mil active subs.
And to back up Snakey's statement. WoW was not made for gamers. Read any reveiw of the game. They will state that it was made so that anyone can pick up the game and play it. Some even go as far as to litterately say that it was made for people who don't normally play MMOs and or video games.
Everquest was made for the gamers of the MMO market. In it's development, it attempted to bring new ideas to the market. It made advancements from the generation before it. WoW however, came after Everquest. The devs of WoW adressed none of the issue that plagued the gamers of EQ unlike the devs of EQ who had adressed the concerns of earlier MMO games. Since WoW ignored games of the EQ generation of game, it can be said that the game was not made for gamers.
Uh, so if I dont spend 5-10 hours daily playing a game im not a gamer? Everquest was made for HARDCORE gamers, the ones who can spend 8 hours a day raiding or spend months grinding same mobs over and over, the ones with no social life basicaly (as I was when I played EQ for 8-13 hours a day for a year). As soon as I found a job, EQ was gone for me. WoW advanced the idea of MMO into more suitable for *gasp* casuals! And here we see the results. Sure, some hardcore people are pissed becuase there isnt much content at high end WoW. Well, dont play it then. Noone is forcing you to play it if you get to 60 in 3 weeks and then silently cuss at the PvP/PvE grind. Play a game that rewards countless hours of grind like EQ or L2. For the rest of millions of us, WoW was the first breath of fresh air, the first step in the right direction by making a revolutionary game without anything revolutionary in it.
All in all, opinions are just that, opinions, but if u stack the numbers then WoW had and still has the leading numbers. Cant deny that, nomatter how much you hate the game.
Originally posted by CleffyII Still about 4 million subs come from Asia, primarily China which has a different payment structure then the US. I would expect that combined they are making 760 million. Still more then any other mmo. The only one who comes close in NCSoft at about 300 million.
In Q1 of 2005 VU games (which includes Blizzard, Sierra, Sierra Online, and Vivendi mobile games) reported revenue of 114 million Euros. At that time WoW was sitting at 1.5 million subscribers
In Q1/06 VU games reported revenue of 143 million Euros with Blizzard reporting 6.5 million WoW subscribers.
VU Games also says ~50% of their revenue comes from online games.
I think thats a little misleading because Vivendi owns 60% of the gaming industry. Saying they had 30 billion dollar profit increase is just a sign that the Game Industry is growing. I am pretty certain the9 who hosts WoW as well as other online imports in China has a split revenue with Blizzard. Still I think $760 million revenue per year right now is a safe bet of how much they are making. The economy is different around the world. What might sell for $50 in the US would sell for $7 in China.
Still there profits should increase Drastically once the expansion is released. That 7.5 million represents the current subscriber base, not all the people who have played WoW. With the expansion, you should see many people who left because they were bored returning to play through the new content. The numbers could shoot through the roof and compete on the same numbers as Free MMOs.
And to back up Snakey's statement. WoW was not made for gamers. Read any reveiw of the game. They will state that it was made so that anyone can pick up the game and play it. Some even go as far as to litterately say that it was made for people who don't normally play MMOs and or video games.
Everquest was made for the gamers of the MMO market. In it's development, it attempted to bring new ideas to the market. It made advancements from the generation before it. WoW however, came after Everquest. The devs of WoW adressed none of the issue that plagued the gamers of EQ unlike the devs of EQ who had adressed the concerns of earlier MMO games. Since WoW ignored games of the EQ generation of game, it can be said that the game was not made for gamers.
WoW was not designed to appeal to the pre-WoW MMO market to a large degree, I agree. It was made to take the MMO, as a genre, to the masses of non-MMO gamers and newcomers to gaming, and it succeeded brilliantly at that. It's no surprise that many MMO gamers dislike WoW, because it wasn't made to appeal to them. EQ2 was ... but they set the system requirements too high, and had the misfortune of getting swamped by WoW's release a few weeks later, and in response they've gradually but steadily made this or that feature of the release version of EQ2 more casual friendly in order to compete with WoW to some degree.
The tension here is that WoW is the 900 ton gorilla of online gaming at the moment, but the game itself is not designed to appeal to the true MMO afficionado. So the afficionado community hates WoW, but Blizzard laughs all the way to the bank.
At the end of the day, it *is* about selling games and getting the most people to play your game for as long as you can manage. Gaming is a business, first and foremost. And Blizzard wins the game of the gaming business right now.
Here is a poser then, since WoW's success is attributed in part to it's casualness, why did CoH not do so well? Only getting something like 100k subscribers or so.
Originally posted by nomadian Here is a poser then, since WoW's success is attributed in part to it's casualness, why did CoH not do so well? Only getting something like 100k subscribers or so.
Im not sure CoH is that much casual friendly... I tried it in beta and twice during trial, and after several levels, i was beginning to hit that invisible "group-and-grind" barrier. CoH has much less diverse content then WoW, just the missions themselves are so repetative and monotone, i mean surely they could of created a random "dungeon" generator that doesnt have 5 dungeon presets... CoH is a fun game, but it was burried under lack of different types of content. Complete lack of items and crafting was also a big contributor to its not-so-great sales.
I think the biggest ball-breaker in any game is what different things you can do, aside your main gameplay. Can you craft? capture cities/towns? Build housing? quest? work on your faction? farm loot from rare mobs? explore? participate in guild/clan wars? trade? travel? The more things any given game covers with decent content and decent level of reward the more popular it becomes. You dont need anything new or revolutionary to succed, you dont need to create something outside the box, you just need to polish that box and present it in a good way. The next game with good graphics, PvP, crafting, exploration, raiding, economy, questing will dwarf any other game, including WoW. But I dont see that coming in the next dozen years.
Originally posted by CleffyII Still about 4 million subs come from Asia, primarily China which has a different payment structure then the US. I would expect that combined they are making 760 million. Still more then any other mmo. The only one who comes close in NCSoft at about 300 million.
In Q1 of 2005 VU games (which includes Blizzard, Sierra, Sierra Online, and Vivendi mobile games) reported revenue of 114 million Euros. At that time WoW was sitting at 1.5 million subscribers
In Q1/06 VU games reported revenue of 143 million Euros with Blizzard reporting 6.5 million WoW subscribers.
VU Games also says ~50% of their revenue comes from online games.
I think thats a little misleading because Vivendi owns 60% of the gaming industry. Saying they had 30 billion dollar profit increase is just a sign that the Game Industry is growing. I am pretty certain the9 who hosts WoW as well as other online imports in China has a split revenue with Blizzard. Still I think $760 million revenue per year right now is a safe bet of how much they are making. The economy is different around the world. What might sell for $50 in the US would sell for $7 in China.
Im not sure you understand what those numbers mean. That is *all* the money Vivendi received for *all* their games over those 3 month periods. Your estimate of what WoW is bringing in exceeds all the money the whole company is bringing in from all the games they sell or distribute.
Before WoW Vivendi was in dire straits. Having to close parts of the company and even questioning the future of Blizzard. I remember the guys at Blizzard Europe being uncertain about their jobs. They put a lot of eggs in the MMORPG basket as a calculated risk, but no one foresaw the huge popularity of the game. Revenues have now skyrocketed due the WoW itself and the effect of having such a well-known title -sales for other Blizzard/Vivendi games- are seeing an increase in sales too.
However, you have to realize they spent A LOT on this game, from development to advertising.
AC (retired); EQ (retired); DAoC (retired); Horizons (retired); EQII (retired); CoH (retired); AC II (tested); Lineage II (beta); Neocron (tested); Saga of Ryzom (beta); SWG (retired)...
I think lomiller and others are right. I've read stock reports from various MMO companies that contain not only their own records but estimated records and growth records of the entire industry and from those reports it would seem the whole industry is at the moment not worth much over 1 billion dollars. Therefore to say, as the OP did, that one MMO is producing more than 1 billion profit per year is a little unbelievable and laughable without any external links or sources.
The whole conversation and thread is a little academical and light hearted without proof to credited economists, just theory and opinion, nothing more, talking shite if you will.
A billion overall is a bit optimistic in my opinion over the whole time WoW has been released. Trying to say they make 1 bil per year is just a joke though.
I've not read every post in this thread so this may many times before have been talked about, however this is my opinion and I would agree with posts that assert a similar view. WoW categorically does not make 1 Bil per year.
Originally posted by Gameloading Actually, its not "just my opinion". http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/misc/awards.htmlhttp://www.gamestats.com/objects/016/016985//articles.html (average press score: 9,3) (average gamer score: 9,1) http://www.mmorpgchart.com/ Those people that keep saying WoW is such a horrible, bad, or medicore game, thats an opinion. imo, people are free to post their opinion, but make sure you post it as an opinion, this can be done by adding a simply "imo" at the beginning of the post. don't post it as a fact.
WoW the best? Thats a joke. Does Mc Donald's make the best burger? Hell no. It's just as popular so it must be the best right?
Stop being stupid, you like it fine. It's popular fine... it is far from the best.
Originally posted by CleffyII Still about 4 million subs come from Asia, primarily China which has a different payment structure then the US. I would expect that combined they are making 760 million. Still more then any other mmo. The only one who comes close in NCSoft at about 300 million.
In Q1 of 2005 VU games (which includes Blizzard, Sierra, Sierra Online, and Vivendi mobile games) reported revenue of 114 million Euros. At that time WoW was sitting at 1.5 million subscribers
In Q1/06 VU games reported revenue of 143 million Euros with Blizzard reporting 6.5 million WoW subscribers.
VU Games also says ~50% of their revenue comes from online games.
I think thats a little misleading because Vivendi owns 60% of the gaming industry. Saying they had 30 billion dollar profit increase is just a sign that the Game Industry is growing. I am pretty certain the9 who hosts WoW as well as other online imports in China has a split revenue with Blizzard. Still I think $760 million revenue per year right now is a safe bet of how much they are making. The economy is different around the world. What might sell for $50 in the US would sell for $7 in China.
Im not sure you understand what those numbers mean. That is *all* the money Vivendi received for *all* their games over those 3 month periods. Your estimate of what WoW is bringing in exceeds all the money the whole company is bringing in from all the games they sell or distribute.
Oops, sorry I don't know why I thought that was a billion. Still your argument further supports my assumption that they aren't making a billion because of the subscribers from China. I said $760 Million because it was a best possibility w/ 7.5 million subscribers. Divide 760 million by 4 and you get 190 million, which is pretty close to thier first quarter earnings with 6.5 million subscribers. Vivendi only saw 3 good selling games Q01 2006, Ice Age 2 was its second highest grossing behind WoW's subscription revenue. So you can pretty much tell that the majority is from WoW, probably close to 100 million was solely from WoW for the first 3 months.
Originally posted by Vociferor I think lomiller and others are right. I've read stock reports from various MMO companies that contain not only their own records but estimated records and growth records of the entire industry and from those reports it would seem the whole industry is at the moment not worth much over 1 billion dollars. Therefore to say, as the OP did, that one MMO is producing more than 1 billion profit per year is a little unbelievable and laughable without any external links or sources. A billion overall is a bit optimistic in my opinion over the whole time WoW has been released. Trying to say they make 1 bil per year is just a joke though.
Not profit, revenue. Who knows what the profit is after expenses? But the revenue figure is much easier to derive. Blizzard says it has 7.5m subs. Most sources assume that 4.5m or so of those are in Asia on a reduced pricing plan, so let's leave them out. We know what the other 3m are paying: $15 or thereabouts in local currencies in other western countries. If you do the math, that's about 540m in revenue from Western subscribers per year. You need to add to that the Asian revenues, and even if they are much lower, say in the 150m range, that's still a total revenue from WoW of around 700-750m per annum. Again, revenue, not profit. It's pretty close to a billion in revenue.
Originally posted by Celestian Originally posted by Gameloading Actually, its not "just my opinion". http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/misc/awards.htmlhttp://www.gamestats.com/objects/016/016985//articles.html (average press score: 9,3) (average gamer score: 9,1) http://www.mmorpgchart.com/ Those people that keep saying WoW is such a horrible, bad, or medicore game, thats an opinion. imo, people are free to post their opinion, but make sure you post it as an opinion, this can be done by adding a simply "imo" at the beginning of the post. don't post it as a fact.
WoW the best? Thats a joke. Does Mc Donald's make the best burger? Hell no. It's just as popular so it must be the best right?
Stop being stupid, you like it fine. It's popular fine... it is far from the best.
The distinction you're drawing is between your subjective opinion about the quality of the product as compared with the market's opinion. Blizzard, and every other developer, is in business to make money. Blizzard is winning that game, as a company, in spades with their product. McDonald's makes a lot of money for its shareholders as well.
Originally posted by Novaseeker Originally posted by Celestian Originally posted by Gameloading Actually, its not "just my opinion". http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/misc/awards.htmlhttp://www.gamestats.com/objects/016/016985//articles.html (average press score: 9,3) (average gamer score: 9,1) http://www.mmorpgchart.com/ Those people that keep saying WoW is such a horrible, bad, or medicore game, thats an opinion. imo, people are free to post their opinion, but make sure you post it as an opinion, this can be done by adding a simply "imo" at the beginning of the post. don't post it as a fact.
WoW the best? Thats a joke. Does Mc Donald's make the best burger? Hell no. It's just as popular so it must be the best right?
Stop being stupid, you like it fine. It's popular fine... it is far from the best.
The distinction you're drawing is between your subjective opinion about the quality of the product as compared with the market's opinion. Blizzard, and every other developer, is in business to make money. Blizzard is winning that game, as a company, in spades with their product. McDonald's makes a lot of money for its shareholders as well. Yup. Who says a certain product is best? is it the quality of the product? the quantity? Id say a combination of those 2 and many other factors. Fact is, McDonalds is fast to serve a client, tastes good, and is cheap. Its one of the best products avaialble. Its not healthy for sure. But people who ignore the healthy part, consider McDonalds "best" food for those first 3 reasons. Now instead of trying to point fingers at evil money-hungry corps, we could do something shocking like try and improve bad products. Luckily the trend started going that way with low fat sandwitches and salads. who knows, maybe in the future McDonalds will be a leader in health food. But thats crazy talk. As nova said, McDonalds is reaping a hella money. I call that a definite success, and success doesnt come out of bad products (some other brown stinky stuff comes out of bad products).
Those people that keep saying WoW is such a horrible, bad, or medicore game, thats an opinion. imo, people are free to post their opinion, but make sure you post it as an opinion, this can be done by adding a simply "imo" at the beginning of the post. don't post it as a fact.
WoW the best? Thats a joke. Does Mc Donald's make the best burger? Hell no. It's just as popular so it must be the best right?
Stop being stupid, you like it fine. It's popular fine... it is far from the best.
Ah, the flawed MCdonalds theory, one that every WoW Hater has at least used once.
Do you know why MCdonalds is popular? Because MCdonalds is everywhere. every village with 3 houses or more has a MCdonalds. Not the case with WoW, it is everywhere, but so are other MMORPG's.
Next, MCdonalds is popular among children. the little toy, anyone? it also serves food that children like to eat.
And you know the number one reason? to most people, MCdonalds food actually taste's good for a fast food restaurant. food is subjective. there is no such thing as "quality" in food.
Don't compare the food franchise with the MMORPG industry. Stop being stupid. Facts go against your WoW hatred.
Phew, that was fun! Hahaha, it's always fun to read how people justify not liking or even better, dieing wish to not like wow.
As for best part, I can't see whats the problem. You read a review, you try a game, like=play, don't like=don't play. I realy doubt that people would play any game or listen to any music, or eat in McD for that matter if they didn't like it.
It's like some people here are on a crusade of rescuing all innocent newbies in the genre from the evil hypnotising, addicting, life stealing, cancer giving WoW, or is it...?
I think Warhammer Online has the highest potential to do what WoW did, simply because Warhammer is a very well known name, just like Warcraft was/is.
Garrik
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"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."
Originally posted by Garrik I think Warhammer Online has the highest potential to do what WoW did, simply because Warhammer is a very well known name, just like Warcraft was/is.Garrik
Yes it does have similar potential. Let's see how it is pulled off. If WAR is designed as an open PvP game with PK looting, it won't be nearly as popular as WoW.
Originally posted by Novaseeker Originally posted by Garrik I think Warhammer Online has the highest potential to do what WoW did, simply because Warhammer is a very well known name, just like Warcraft was/is.Garrik
Yes it does have similar potential. Let's see how it is pulled off. If WAR is designed as an open PvP game with PK looting, it won't be nearly as popular as WoW. Aye, i doubt casuals would enjoy open grief PvP with items they can lose. If WAR is as diverse as WoW, with open but limited PvP, i think it may become as sucessfull as WoW. Im definitely looking forward to try this game.
Originally posted by Celestian Originally posted by Gameloading Actually, its not "just my opinion". http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/misc/awards.htmlhttp://www.gamestats.com/objects/016/016985//articles.html (average press score: 9,3) (average gamer score: 9,1) http://www.mmorpgchart.com/ Those people that keep saying WoW is such a horrible, bad, or medicore game, thats an opinion. imo, people are free to post their opinion, but make sure you post it as an opinion, this can be done by adding a simply "imo" at the beginning of the post. don't post it as a fact.
WoW the best? Thats a joke. Does Mc Donald's make the best burger? Hell no. It's just as popular so it must be the best right?
Stop being stupid, you like it fine. It's popular fine... it is far from the best.
Yeah because we all know we eat stuff that doesn't appeal to us, or doesn't taste good. I bet you eat alot of shit sandwiches now don't you? The only person being stupid around here is you. If you WoW haters best argument is something about fast food chains and McDonalds then you need to try harder. Because the analogy is flawed.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Originally posted by Gameloading Actually, its not "just my opinion". http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/misc/awards.htmlhttp://www.gamestats.com/objects/016/016985//articles.html (average press score: 9,3) (average gamer score: 9,1) http://www.mmorpgchart.com/ Those people that keep saying WoW is such a horrible, bad, or medicore game, thats an opinion. imo, people are free to post their opinion, but make sure you post it as an opinion, this can be done by adding a simply "imo" at the beginning of the post. don't post it as a fact.
WoW the best? Thats a joke. Does Mc Donald's make the best burger? Hell no. It's just as popular so it must be the best right?
Stop being stupid, you like it fine. It's popular fine... it is far from the best.
Yeah because we all know we eat stuff that doesn't appeal to us, or doesn't taste good. I bet you eat alot of shit sandwiches now don't you? The only person being stupid around here is you. If you WoW haters best argument is something about fast food chains and McDonalds then you need to try harder. Because the analogy is flawed.
McDonalds is ediable. That's about it and it's barely that.
But it's everywhere and when I get off the interstate and I have a choice between "SAM'S FRIED FISH", "DONKEY BBQ PALACE" and "McDonalds" I'm gonna eat at McDonalds. That and McDonalds is open all night in most places, where as everything else closes around 10.
Have you noticed the new things on the menu? That's because their CEO(or president or w/e the hell he is) said "We need to quit focusing on getting bigger and start focusing on getting better" I think it's time for WoW to follow.
Originally posted by SnaKey Originally posted by RoinOriginally posted by Celestian Originally posted by Gameloading Actually, its not "just my opinion". http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/misc/awards.htmlhttp://www.gamestats.com/objects/016/016985//articles.html (average press score: 9,3) (average gamer score: 9,1) http://www.mmorpgchart.com/ Those people that keep saying WoW is such a horrible, bad, or medicore game, thats an opinion. imo, people are free to post their opinion, but make sure you post it as an opinion, this can be done by adding a simply "imo" at the beginning of the post. don't post it as a fact.
WoW the best? Thats a joke. Does Mc Donald's make the best burger? Hell no. It's just as popular so it must be the best right?
Stop being stupid, you like it fine. It's popular fine... it is far from the best.
Yeah because we all know we eat stuff that doesn't appeal to us, or doesn't taste good. I bet you eat alot of shit sandwiches now don't you? The only person being stupid around here is you. If you WoW haters best argument is something about fast food chains and McDonalds then you need to try harder. Because the analogy is flawed.
McDonalds is ediable. That's about it and it's barely that.
But it's everywhere and when I get off the interstate and I have a choice between "SAM'S FRIED FISH", "DONKEY BBQ PALACE" and "McDonalds" I'm gonna eat at McDonalds. That and McDonalds is open all night in most places, where as everything else closes around 10.
Have you noticed the new things on the menu? That's because their CEO(or president or w/e the hell he is) said "We need to quit focusing on getting bigger and start focusing on getting better" I think it's time for WoW to follow.
And like I said that argument is stupid and flawed. You might be a mindless sheep that eats something because it's "edible". I personally only eat stuff I like. Rotten food is edible, but would you stop at a resturant that serves that, if it was the only one open at 2am? Didn't think so.
Edit: By rotten i'm not implying "rotten" as in gone bad. Just taste bad.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
My point was just that saying the word "best" is not a subjective term is grammatically incorrect. That and adapting people's words to fit what you believe...as if to FORCE them to believe what you do, isn't polite or in favor of your argument. You can argue all day that WoW is the best game ever and I will happily argue with you, just make sure you're not trying to say a subjective statement is objective.
Comments
and I would never have tried WoW if i werent invited into beta, but I
tried WoW in beta and it was nothing like Warcraft. Sure then name is
there, some visuals are from Warcraft and names too, but the game is
completely different. Its a MMORPG for christ's sake! It has no
strategic unit control whatsoever (unless you call pet control
strategic unit control).
Originally posted by Distortion0
"action-packed combat"
If you like paying $15 pressing an auto-attack button then pressing several special skill buttons when they light up!
Cmon,
its been said so many times, if i had a screenie from my rogue id post
it to show u how many skills, clickies, talents, potions, items, spells
i can have. My level 55 hunter has about 5 bars FULL of skills, items,
potions and other stuff that i can use during combat and/or outside
combat in order to attack something or do something beneficial for
myself. If anything, WoW has sometimes too MANY skills that I could
chose from. Often I lose myself in my options so I have to sort of make
a pre-combat plan on what to use against what... but when combat
starts, i forget to use a skill or two almost always, and when
replaying encounter in my head I always come up with better methods of
what I could of used/clicked/done for better outcome.
Heres the link for WoW numbers, as of Aug 2005, North America had over 1 mil active subs.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/08/29/news_6132187.html
Originally posted by Distortion0
And to back up Snakey's statement. WoW was not made for gamers. Read
any reveiw of the game. They will state that it was made so that anyone
can pick up the game and play it. Some even go as far as to litterately
say that it was made for people who don't normally play MMOs and or
video games.
Everquest was made for the gamers of the MMO market. In it's
development, it attempted to bring new ideas to the market. It made
advancements from the generation before it. WoW however, came after
Everquest. The devs of WoW adressed none of the issue that plagued the
gamers of EQ unlike the devs of EQ who had adressed the concerns of
earlier MMO games. Since WoW ignored games of the EQ generation of
game, it can be said that the game was not made for gamers.
Uh, so if I dont spend 5-10 hours daily playing a game im not a gamer?
Everquest was made for HARDCORE gamers, the ones who can spend 8 hours
a day raiding or spend months grinding same mobs over and over, the
ones with no social life basicaly (as I was when I played EQ for 8-13
hours a day for a year). As soon as I found a job, EQ was gone for me.
WoW advanced the idea of MMO into more suitable for *gasp* casuals! And
here we see the results. Sure, some hardcore people are pissed becuase
there isnt much content at high end WoW. Well, dont play it then. Noone
is forcing you to play it if you get to 60 in 3 weeks and then silently
cuss at the PvP/PvE grind. Play a game that rewards countless hours of
grind like EQ or L2. For the rest of millions of us, WoW was the first
breath of fresh air, the first step in the right direction by making a
revolutionary game without anything revolutionary in it.
All in all, opinions are just that, opinions, but if u stack the
numbers then WoW had and still has the leading numbers. Cant deny that,
nomatter how much you hate the game.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
In Q1 of 2005 VU games (which includes Blizzard, Sierra, Sierra Online, and Vivendi mobile games) reported revenue of 114 million Euros. At that time WoW was sitting at 1.5 million subscribers
In Q1/06 VU games reported revenue of 143 million Euros with Blizzard reporting 6.5 million WoW subscribers.
VU Games also says ~50% of their revenue comes from online games.
I think thats a little misleading because Vivendi owns 60% of the gaming industry. Saying they had 30 billion dollar profit increase is just a sign that the Game Industry is growing. I am pretty certain the9 who hosts WoW as well as other online imports in China has a split revenue with Blizzard. Still I think $760 million revenue per year right now is a safe bet of how much they are making. The economy is different around the world. What might sell for $50 in the US would sell for $7 in China.
Still there profits should increase Drastically once the expansion is released. That 7.5 million represents the current subscriber base, not all the people who have played WoW. With the expansion, you should see many people who left because they were bored returning to play through the new content. The numbers could shoot through the roof and compete on the same numbers as Free MMOs.
And to back up Snakey's statement. WoW was not made for gamers. Read
any reveiw of the game. They will state that it was made so that anyone
can pick up the game and play it. Some even go as far as to litterately
say that it was made for people who don't normally play MMOs and or
video games.
Everquest was made for the gamers of the MMO market. In it's
WoW was not designed to appeal to the pre-WoW MMO market to a large degree, I agree. It was made to take the MMO, as a genre, to the masses of non-MMO gamers and newcomers to gaming, and it succeeded brilliantly at that. It's no surprise that many MMO gamers dislike WoW, because it wasn't made to appeal to them. EQ2 was ... but they set the system requirements too high, and had the misfortune of getting swamped by WoW's release a few weeks later, and in response they've gradually but steadily made this or that feature of the release version of EQ2 more casual friendly in order to compete with WoW to some degree.development, it attempted to bring new ideas to the market. It made
advancements from the generation before it. WoW however, came after
Everquest. The devs of WoW adressed none of the issue that plagued the
gamers of EQ unlike the devs of EQ who had adressed the concerns of
earlier MMO games. Since WoW ignored games of the EQ generation of
game, it can be said that the game was not made for gamers.
The tension here is that WoW is the 900 ton gorilla of online gaming at the moment, but the game itself is not designed to appeal to the true MMO afficionado. So the afficionado community hates WoW, but Blizzard laughs all the way to the bank.
At the end of the day, it *is* about selling games and getting the most people to play your game for as long as you can manage. Gaming is a business, first and foremost. And Blizzard wins the game of the gaming business right now.
Im not sure CoH is that much casual friendly... I tried it in beta and twice during trial, and after several levels, i was beginning to hit that invisible "group-and-grind" barrier. CoH has much less diverse content then WoW, just the missions themselves are so repetative and monotone, i mean surely they could of created a random "dungeon" generator that doesnt have 5 dungeon presets... CoH is a fun game, but it was burried under lack of different types of content. Complete lack of items and crafting was also a big contributor to its not-so-great sales.
I think the biggest ball-breaker in any game is what different things you can do, aside your main gameplay. Can you craft? capture cities/towns? Build housing? quest? work on your faction? farm loot from rare mobs? explore? participate in guild/clan wars? trade? travel? The more things any given game covers with decent content and decent level of reward the more popular it becomes. You dont need anything new or revolutionary to succed, you dont need to create something outside the box, you just need to polish that box and present it in a good way. The next game with good graphics, PvP, crafting, exploration, raiding, economy, questing will dwarf any other game, including WoW. But I dont see that coming in the next dozen years.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
In Q1 of 2005 VU games (which includes Blizzard, Sierra, Sierra Online, and Vivendi mobile games) reported revenue of 114 million Euros. At that time WoW was sitting at 1.5 million subscribers
In Q1/06 VU games reported revenue of 143 million Euros with Blizzard reporting 6.5 million WoW subscribers.
VU Games also says ~50% of their revenue comes from online games.
I think thats a little misleading because Vivendi owns 60% of the gaming industry. Saying they had 30 billion dollar profit increase is just a sign that the Game Industry is growing. I am pretty certain the9 who hosts WoW as well as other online imports in China has a split revenue with Blizzard. Still I think $760 million revenue per year right now is a safe bet of how much they are making. The economy is different around the world. What might sell for $50 in the US would sell for $7 in China.
Im not sure you understand what those numbers mean. That is *all* the money Vivendi received for *all* their games over those 3 month periods. Your estimate of what WoW is bringing in exceeds all the money the whole company is bringing in from all the games they sell or distribute.
company and even questioning the future of Blizzard. I remember the
guys at Blizzard Europe being uncertain about their jobs. They put a
lot of eggs in the MMORPG basket as a calculated risk, but no one
foresaw the huge popularity of the game. Revenues have now skyrocketed
due the WoW itself and the effect of having such a well-known title
-sales for other Blizzard/Vivendi games- are seeing an increase in
sales too.
However, you have to realize they spent A LOT on this game, from development to advertising.
AC (retired); EQ (retired); DAoC (retired); Horizons (retired); EQII (retired); CoH (retired); AC II (tested); Lineage II (beta); Neocron (tested); Saga of Ryzom (beta); SWG (retired)...
I think lomiller and others are right. I've read stock reports from various MMO companies that contain not only their own records but estimated records and growth records of the entire industry and from those reports it would seem the whole industry is at the moment not worth much over 1 billion dollars. Therefore to say, as the OP did, that one MMO is producing more than 1 billion profit per year is a little unbelievable and laughable without any external links or sources.
The whole conversation and thread is a little academical and light hearted without proof to credited economists, just theory and opinion, nothing more, talking shite if you will.
A billion overall is a bit optimistic in my opinion over the whole time WoW has been released. Trying to say they make 1 bil per year is just a joke though.
I've not read every post in this thread so this may many times before have been talked about, however this is my opinion and I would agree with posts that assert a similar view. WoW categorically does not make 1 Bil per year.
WoW the best? Thats a joke. Does Mc Donald's make the best burger? Hell no. It's just as popular so it must be the best right?
Stop being stupid, you like it fine. It's popular fine... it is far from the best.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
In Q1 of 2005 VU games (which includes Blizzard, Sierra, Sierra Online, and Vivendi mobile games) reported revenue of 114 million Euros. At that time WoW was sitting at 1.5 million subscribers
In Q1/06 VU games reported revenue of 143 million Euros with Blizzard reporting 6.5 million WoW subscribers.
VU Games also says ~50% of their revenue comes from online games.
I think thats a little misleading because Vivendi owns 60% of the gaming industry. Saying they had 30 billion dollar profit increase is just a sign that the Game Industry is growing. I am pretty certain the9 who hosts WoW as well as other online imports in China has a split revenue with Blizzard. Still I think $760 million revenue per year right now is a safe bet of how much they are making. The economy is different around the world. What might sell for $50 in the US would sell for $7 in China.
Im not sure you understand what those numbers mean. That is *all* the money Vivendi received for *all* their games over those 3 month periods. Your estimate of what WoW is bringing in exceeds all the money the whole company is bringing in from all the games they sell or distribute.
Oops, sorry I don't know why I thought that was a billion. Still your argument further supports my assumption that they aren't making a billion because of the subscribers from China. I said $760 Million because it was a best possibility w/ 7.5 million subscribers. Divide 760 million by 4 and you get 190 million, which is pretty close to thier first quarter earnings with 6.5 million subscribers. Vivendi only saw 3 good selling games Q01 2006, Ice Age 2 was its second highest grossing behind WoW's subscription revenue. So you can pretty much tell that the majority is from WoW, probably close to 100 million was solely from WoW for the first 3 months.
Stop being stupid, you like it fine. It's popular fine... it is far from the best.
The distinction you're drawing is between your subjective opinion about the quality of the product as compared with the market's opinion. Blizzard, and every other developer, is in business to make money. Blizzard is winning that game, as a company, in spades with their product. McDonald's makes a lot of money for its shareholders as well.
yay!
Blizzard is making an assload of money!!!
and it effects my life.. how..
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Stop being stupid, you like it fine. It's popular fine... it is far from the best.
The distinction you're drawing is between your subjective opinion about the quality of the product as compared with the market's opinion. Blizzard, and every other developer, is in business to make money. Blizzard is winning that game, as a company, in spades with their product. McDonald's makes a lot of money for its shareholders as well.
Yup. Who says a certain product is best? is it the quality of the product? the quantity? Id say a combination of those 2 and many other factors. Fact is, McDonalds is fast to serve a client, tastes good, and is cheap. Its one of the best products avaialble. Its not healthy for sure. But people who ignore the healthy part, consider McDonalds "best" food for those first 3 reasons. Now instead of trying to point fingers at evil money-hungry corps, we could do something shocking like try and improve bad products. Luckily the trend started going that way with low fat sandwitches and salads. who knows, maybe in the future McDonalds will be a leader in health food. But thats crazy talk. As nova said, McDonalds is reaping a hella money. I call that a definite success, and success doesnt come out of bad products (some other brown stinky stuff comes out of bad products).
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Stop being stupid, you like it fine. It's popular fine... it is far from the best.
Ah, the flawed MCdonalds theory, one that every WoW Hater has at least used once.
Do you know why MCdonalds is popular? Because MCdonalds is everywhere. every village with 3 houses or more has a MCdonalds. Not the case with WoW, it is everywhere, but so are other MMORPG's.
Next, MCdonalds is popular among children. the little toy, anyone? it also serves food that children like to eat.
And you know the number one reason? to most people, MCdonalds food actually taste's good for a fast food restaurant. food is subjective. there is no such thing as "quality" in food.
Don't compare the food franchise with the MMORPG industry. Stop being stupid. Facts go against your WoW hatred.
Phew, that was fun! Hahaha, it's always fun to read how people justify not liking or even better, dieing wish to not like wow.
As for best part, I can't see whats the problem. You read a review, you try a game, like=play, don't like=don't play. I realy doubt that people would play any game or listen to any music, or eat in McD for that matter if they didn't like it.
It's like some people here are on a crusade of rescuing all innocent newbies in the genre from the evil hypnotising, addicting, life stealing, cancer giving WoW, or is it...?
I think Warhammer Online has the highest potential to do what WoW did, simply because Warhammer is a very well known name, just like Warcraft was/is.
Garrik
________________________________
"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."
Yes it does have similar potential. Let's see how it is pulled off. If WAR is designed as an open PvP game with PK looting, it won't be nearly as popular as WoW.
similar potential. Let's see how it is pulled off. If WAR
is designed as an open PvP game with PK looting, it won't be nearly as
popular as WoW.
Aye, i doubt casuals would
enjoy open grief PvP with items they can lose. If WAR is as diverse as
WoW, with open but limited PvP, i think it may become as sucessfull as
WoW. Im definitely looking forward to try this game.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Stop being stupid, you like it fine. It's popular fine... it is far from the best.
Yeah because we all know we eat stuff that doesn't appeal to us, or doesn't taste good. I bet you eat alot of shit sandwiches now don't you? The only person being stupid around here is you. If you WoW haters best argument is something about fast food chains and McDonalds then you need to try harder. Because the analogy is flawed.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
McDonalds is ediable. That's about it and it's barely that.
But it's everywhere and when I get off the interstate and I have a choice between "SAM'S FRIED FISH", "DONKEY BBQ PALACE" and "McDonalds" I'm gonna eat at McDonalds. That and McDonalds is open all night in most places, where as everything else closes around 10.
Have you noticed the new things on the menu? That's because their CEO(or president or w/e the hell he is) said "We need to quit focusing on getting bigger and start focusing on getting better"
I think it's time for WoW to follow.
A Work in Progress.
Add Me
WoW makes 1 Billion a Year...
The Tobacco companies make what? 3 Figure Billions atleast a year.
Just because something makes alot of money, doesn't mean its any good.
Stop being stupid, you like it fine. It's popular fine... it is far from the best.
Yeah because we all know we eat stuff that doesn't appeal to us, or doesn't taste good. I bet you eat alot of shit sandwiches now don't you? The only person being stupid around here is you. If you WoW haters best argument is something about fast food chains and McDonalds then you need to try harder. Because the analogy is flawed.
McDonalds is ediable. That's about it and it's barely that.
But it's everywhere and when I get off the interstate and I have a choice between "SAM'S FRIED FISH", "DONKEY BBQ PALACE" and "McDonalds" I'm gonna eat at McDonalds. That and McDonalds is open all night in most places, where as everything else closes around 10.
Have you noticed the new things on the menu? That's because their CEO(or president or w/e the hell he is) said "We need to quit focusing on getting bigger and start focusing on getting better"
I think it's time for WoW to follow.
And like I said that argument is stupid and flawed. You might be a mindless sheep that eats something because it's "edible". I personally only eat stuff I like. Rotten food is edible, but would you stop at a resturant that serves that, if it was the only one open at 2am? Didn't think so.
Edit: By rotten i'm not implying "rotten" as in gone bad. Just taste bad.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.