This is lame. I had no interest in playing l2 for long but had fun playing the "speical version"
Im sorry Jukan that I didnt wanna waste my life grinding up krazy korean lvls when I didnt plan to play it more then a few mths waiting or yet killing time for a game that was worth my money in buying. IMO it was funner getting your char going and was more lets say "carefree" in pvp not being to concerned bout losing your gear since it didnt take long to get back.
When reading the FBI poor excuse of a reason for thier actions it says that "piracy of media and other commercial goods causes huge losses to the U.S. economy each year and it's American consumers who are paying the price."
However, I wasnt going to buy l2 in the first place, how was that profit lost? They consider money THEY COULD be getting a loss, not money they should have. And the American Consumers is paying the price? Well hell we are paying taxes and not paying for software we are just trying or using for fun, sounds like a double raping.
Obviously you don't understand economics. Maybe you wouldn't have payed for L2, but there are thousands that would. I am already seeing them joining up with official as we speak!
Don't blame ya, the grind is long and time consuming. But really, I am a full time student with 2 jobs and can play L2 in my spare time. It isn't always just about levels. Yes it has taken me near 2 years to get just to level 71, but it was worth it most of the time. I was looking for a good game, not something just to play for a month or two. So it worked for me. I don't play games if I can't find one I like, I spend my time somewhere else.
It is about time that the FBI shut these servers down. L2exteme was shut down because donations started becomming profits of another persons work. If you were a developer and you spend thousands of dollars developing something and pouring time into it to let some guy to just take that idea and make some money too, you would be pissed.
What it boils down to is, if L2 is to long, boring, hard, whatever, then you should just play another game. Want no monthly fee with no grind pick up guild wars.
Oh, and one more thing, you aren't "wasting" your time. Playing games period can be thought of as a waste of time. You play games to enjoy yourself, and it depends what your discription of wasting your time is. At one point I was even a private server GM. But I will agree 100% that these servers getting shut down are great! If you wanna play L2, play the game NCsoft provides, if you don't play something else, it is simple. Playing on a private server that can be shut down, or the admins quitting, or a unstable data envoiroment is a waste of time.
Hah. It's the end of private servers, the same way all the bot programs saw an end. Lol. You've got a better chance of NCsoft not spinning their sub numbers then private servers going down.
This wasn't a civil court cease and desist letter. The FBI shut them down, they only get involved with criminal actions.
From the site:
This site has been seized by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Warning: The unauthorized reproduction or distribution of copyrighted works is illegal. Criminal copyright infringement, including infringement without monetary gain, is investigated by the FBI and is punishable by up to 5 years in federal prison and a fine of $250,000.
Originally posted by Jukan Obviously you don't understand economics. Maybe you wouldn't have payed for L2, but there are thousands that would. I am already seeing them joining up with official as we speak!
I don't think it's that high. I've been on many a mmorpg server during betas, and as soon as it went p2p, the server pop dropped so low you might go a whole day without seeing a single person. It rebounded after that a bit, but never to pre-p2p. Most (75-80%) of people who play on private servers would never p2p. It's often quite expensive, difficult, or, due to uncertainties in life, just not worth it. Plus, private server admins often get many things right that the real server admins can't. Why should I pay for an incomplete game when I can play a complete one for free? I've never taken economics, but I believe a complete product is prefered over an incomplete one. And yes, I consider NcSoft's L2 incomplete - I've been on a server which was shut down because the admin had more stuff working than NCSoft did. He proved it was possible to have a fully functional L2, and was shut down for it. Hell... so much for democratic ideals.
Originally posted by Jukan Don't blame ya, the grind is long and time consuming. But really, I am a full time student with 2 jobs and can play L2 in my spare time. It isn't always just about levels. Yes it has taken me near 2 years to get just to level 71, but it was worth it most of the time. I was looking for a good game, not something just to play for a month or two. So it worked for me. I don't play games if I can't find one I like, I spend my time somewhere else.
30 years from now you will regret not getting more than 4 hours of sleep a day.
Originally posted by Jukan It is about time that the FBI shut these servers down. L2exteme was shut down because donations started becomming profits of another persons work. If you were a developer and you spend thousands of dollars developing something and pouring time into it to let some guy to just take that idea and make some money too, you would be pissed.
That's the one thing i won't defend... I see no problem with someone starting up a private server for their friends, even getting them to chip in to help pay for things (servers aren't cheap things...) but i don't think they should make a profit off of it.
Originally posted by Jukan What it boils down to is, if L2 is to long, boring, hard, whatever, then you should just play another game. Want no monthly fee with no grind pick up guild wars.
... and spend your precious money on an incomplete game, when a fully functional one is out there. Sounds great! So much for economics...
I get a full nights sleep...well unless homework keeps me up late, but never had I underslept do to L2, that is a personal problem, not a problem caused by a game.
30 years from now I will probally regret a lot of things, and it is very possible l2 will be one of them, but probally not the biggest regret I will have.
The point is L2 is NCsofts creation, without it there would be no Private Servers. Democratic ideals are to have rights, and NCsoft should get rights to their production. Creating a private server is using L2's intellectual property rights is illegal according to the FBI.
Private servers aren't just for a few friends to play on. If that was so there wouldn't be online donations with paypal, a site to advertise, etc. etc. L2extreme was shut down because it became a "business" if it was just a few friends, then no one would have known.
ok first our opinion that it was fake. i think that server that was closed under FBI announcement it's just a fake.
Posted by KADAR: [quote][color=black]My opinion. Fake. They made some money and want to gain attention and close shop. Just like the HsC did a couple years ago with a fake cease and desist letter. But HsC took it one step further. They asked for donations to help defer court costs. There was never a court case.
The FBI agent is a real guy. Only thing is, he is a Security Specialist. He handles hacking type cases. They would not assign him to a copyright type case unless L2x got caught breaking into NA Ncsoft. The FBI would not alter a website, especially using an Iframe. They would have confiscated the computers and there would be no website.
The other OFF servers that are down, are down because they have not figured out what is true.[/color] [/quote]
Another QUOTE from other forum : [quote][color=black]Well apparently one of my Gms is ex-l2x so he has some connections with them =p
According to him, he spoke with the upper gms of l2x and they told him that Shmee was basicly blackmailed into cutting his losses and leaving. Something to do with a huge chargeback and that it was enough to make him have to close the server. So he closed the server somewhat randomly and disappeared... None of the Gms can contact him.[/color] [/quote]
So others L2OFF servers owners don't know what to do now. So they closed they servers, sitting in they houces, pissing in they pants and waiting to see if it was fake or real.
Originally posted by Jukan If you were a developer and you spend thousands of dollars developing something and pouring time into it to let some guy to just take that idea and make some money too, you would be pissed.
Developers are hired. People playing and donating on private servers does not directly affect the developers.
Originally posted by aranha http://www.lineage2.com/news/news.html#a007871 its pretty much over.. a dark day for lineage 2 players all over the world. The official servers are just too hardcore for the normal mmorpg players.
Dark Day?
Sorry but stealing is stealing. I bet if someone started stealing from you you would be the first to put them in their place.
Lineage 2 is a completely playable game. It just takes a little bit of effort and for some people, a paradigm shift of what they want out of the game.
Now, if an argument were to be made that NC should create alternate rules servers, well then that is a different thing. I bet they would make a lot of money from that.
But I can never back the usage of another company's intellectual property.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
"The FBI estimates L2Extreme has up to 50,000 active users on its service. NCsoft estimates that monetary losses and damages from the operation are costing NCsoft millions of dollars per year."
They estimate that millions of dollars are lost because "Omg they should of have paid for OUR game and paid us mth to mth!" instead of playing a casual private server.
"L2Extreme advertised on its website, www.l2extreme.com, that more than half million registered users had subscribed to play."
They make is sound as if they had a monthly charge. All we had to do was create a account a provide a valid email address, kinda like here.
In the end those losses impact our customer support, product development, operational areas and ultimately they impact our player communities, most of which are trying to play games legitimately."
Maybe we didnt want all that? Could we say fk your customer server etc etc?
Also:
They admit that ppl bot in thier own game and dont do shit.
The official Servers are full of l2walkers and farming bots and its barely playable becose of that.. you cant take on a person with a walker prophet. On the private servers the rules are set by the admins making each server a uniqe experience. The official servers just dont deliver... and not to mention how hard it is to gain adena on the official servers.. I played official when there was no noobie buffers or barely any lowbie quests worth using (alpha,beta,official release) and it took our clan about 1 month to hit like 50 for most of us and im talking about Dominus Aurora.. We pretty much dominated kain back then holding all the bosses (raid bosses wasnt inplented yet). And now the walkers and farming bots has taken over the official servers...
Originally posted by SkSwitch Originally posted by thunderbolt1 The game was paid for, made by and belongs to NCSoft you knotheads. Glad to see the thieving pirates go.
From what I read... Priv Servers steal nothing. The use thier own code right? Reverse Coding?
However how do you OWN a shape, a color, a idea? Isnt that what a game consist of?
And isnt L2 just another korean game that was translated to english, and sum1 else slapping thier name on it, if so, NC made nothing. There's a lot of ignorance in this post.
I'll have a good laugh when the courts give these greedy little game companies too many rights and Microsoft slaps all their asses down allowing only BillGates sanctioned games to run on their OS. Hi, NCsoft, want to write your own OS too?!
NC doesn't sell the game, btw. The client is free and the server had no monitary value + it's dated and no longer used or supported by them. The subscriptions pay for the service they provide on their servers, which has completely sucked since they opened, hence the success of privates.
If this goes to the courts, which I hope it does, it should be unique and interesting. Cant wait to see some clueless judge cripple the software industry some more.
All of the work put into L2 is the work of NC and it's developers. They have the right to give give the client away, charge for it, whatever.
It is not the right of some people who just don't like what they've done to take it and change it and then take donations to keep it running.
It is NC's right to be a sucky company, great company, etc. If you don't like it don't play.
Cripple the software industry?
If and when you make a game or software package you have the right to distribute it anyway you want. And NC has the right to distribute their game (read: THEIR GAME) any way they want.
It's not the intellectual property of the makers of the private servers. That is it. Cut and dried.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Sentime I'll have a good laugh when the courts give these greedy little game companies too many rights and Microsoft slaps all their asses down allowing only BillGates sanctioned games to run on their OS. Hi, NCsoft, want to write your own OS too?!
NC doesn't sell the game, btw. The client is free and the server had no monitary value + it's dated and no longer used or supported by them. The subscriptions pay for the service they provide on their servers, which has completely sucked since they opened, hence the success of privates.
If this goes to the courts, which I hope it does, it should be unique and interesting. Cant wait to see some clueless judge cripple the software industry some more.
Sorry but the game isnt free, you need to buy a (cd) key to play it legaly, it isnt free to play and even if it was it's still their property and only they can use it, they have the rights for it and they paid for them, not like the free servers who didnt pay to use the game and intellectual property.
That said, it doesnt mean i dont think NCsoft sucks, they dont do anything about botters apart from the "yearly" ban and that doesnt change anything since most botters start botting right after it happens and have several accounts anyway. I have reported the same bots time and again and they dont ban them.... That's kind of sad since L2 is a pretty good game (in my opinion of course) and i hope private servers wont all close since it's the only way to play L2 like it should be... I bet most of the gold ebayer are NC's staff... but that's just my opinion, or if not they would care about it...
Originally posted by Sovrath All of the work put into L2 is the work of NC and it's developers. They have the right to give give the client away, charge for it, whatever. It is not the right of some people who just don't like what they've done to take it and change it and then take donations to keep it running. It is NC's right to be a sucky company, great company, etc. If you don't like it don't play. Cripple the software industry? If and when you make a game or software package you have the right to distribute it anyway you want. And NC has the right to distribute their game (read: THEIR GAME) any way they want. It's not the intellectual property of the makers of the private servers. That is it. Cut and dried.
Sounds to me like you're saying Microsoft has the right to do whatever since they developed Windows, like block Firefox and force you to use IE?
@naldric, the client is free. What you pay for and need a CD key for is their service (ie running servers, customer support, and profits from that). You can dl the client to you computer, look at the files, play the music etc etc and not pay NCsoft a dime, and if you read their copyright policy, they state quite clearly you can do whatever unless you charge a fee for it. The server files themselves are not a software package, are not sold and have no monitary value. You can quote EULA if you want, but that's not law and even NCsoft reps have said it's more of a guide to help them provide better service, and not all EULA and ROC clauses are enforced or equally enforced.
I'm not argruing that private servers are "right", but I am concered over the controls the companies are given over people modifying and reverse engineering current products and the laws created as companies are trying boost their profits. Much of the software industry was built on copying and immitation with companies allowing or forced to allow continued development and creativity.
To add, if NCsoft wasn't so draconian, rather creative and tried to emulate the atmosphere on private servers with a different variety of servers, this woudln't be an issue right now.
Originally posted by Jukan If you were a developer and you spend thousands of dollars developing something and pouring time into it to let some guy to just take that idea and make some money too, you would be pissed.
Developers are hired. People playing and donating on private servers does not directly affect the developers.
I am not sure what you mean here.
Really? Part of those players "might" have played the original, meaning more money for the main company, meaning more interest in their games, meaning that the developers get to keep their jobs and continue working in a field/for the company they have chosen.
Yes, you can make a very valid argument that many of those players wouldn't play the original retail game. But then they don't play. Obviouisly the game is not for them. It's not their decision or right to use the materials that NC designed for their own purposes. If you don't have the right to use something you don't have the right.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
good riddence to private servers? Oh yeah, they'll go away, just like l2walker, the eBayers, scammers and botters.
NC efforts to stop it will be about as effective as media efforts to stop music piracy. In the meanwhile NC will learn nothing and the retail servers will continue to suck.
Don't compare cars to software btw. But if you want too, a company like this wants to build a set of roads and build a car, you can build your own roads and your own car and long as you don't copy anything they did or impact their profits in any way. You can't ride their car on your roads btw, nor can you ride your car on their roads, or you end up in jail.
You follow? ... maybe? imo if the auto/transportation industry was offered the same rights software companies want, your ferrari would have never been built and this country would still be stuck in the 1800's.
)
Comments
But good, more people should be playing the Real Lineage II anyway...not some fake stuff because it is "easier" and "free"
...
This is lame. I had no interest in playing l2 for long but had fun playing the "speical version"
Im sorry Jukan that I didnt wanna waste my life grinding up krazy korean lvls when I didnt plan to play it more then a few mths waiting or yet killing time for a game that was worth my money in buying. IMO it was funner getting your char going and was more lets say "carefree" in pvp not being to concerned bout losing your gear since it didnt take long to get back.
When reading the FBI poor excuse of a reason for thier actions it says that "piracy of media and other commercial goods causes huge losses to the U.S. economy each year and it's American consumers who are paying the price."
However, I wasnt going to buy l2 in the first place, how was that profit lost? They consider money THEY COULD be getting a loss, not money they should have. And the American Consumers is paying the price? Well hell we are paying taxes and not paying for software we are just trying or using for fun, sounds like a double raping.
GG
Don't blame ya, the grind is long and time consuming. But really, I am a full time student with 2 jobs and can play L2 in my spare time. It isn't always just about levels. Yes it has taken me near 2 years to get just to level 71, but it was worth it most of the time. I was looking for a good game, not something just to play for a month or two. So it worked for me. I don't play games if I can't find one I like, I spend my time somewhere else.
It is about time that the FBI shut these servers down. L2exteme was shut down because donations started becomming profits of another persons work. If you were a developer and you spend thousands of dollars developing something and pouring time into it to let some guy to just take that idea and make some money too, you would be pissed.
What it boils down to is, if L2 is to long, boring, hard, whatever, then you should just play another game. Want no monthly fee with no grind pick up guild wars.
Oh, and one more thing, you aren't "wasting" your time. Playing games period can be thought of as a waste of time. You play games to enjoy yourself, and it depends what your discription of wasting your time is. At one point I was even a private server GM. But I will agree 100% that these servers getting shut down are great! If you wanna play L2, play the game NCsoft provides, if you don't play something else, it is simple. Playing on a private server that can be shut down, or the admins quitting, or a unstable data envoiroment is a waste of time.
This wasn't a civil court cease and desist letter. The FBI shut them down, they only get involved with criminal actions.
From the site:
This site has been seized by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Warning: The unauthorized reproduction or distribution of
copyrighted works is illegal. Criminal copyright infringement,
including infringement without monetary gain, is investigated by the
FBI and is punishable by up to 5 years in federal prison and a fine of
$250,000.
30 years from now I will probally regret a lot of things, and it is very possible l2 will be one of them, but probally not the biggest regret I will have.
The point is L2 is NCsofts creation, without it there would be no Private Servers. Democratic ideals are to have rights, and NCsoft should get rights to their production. Creating a private server is using L2's intellectual property rights is illegal according to the FBI.
Private servers aren't just for a few friends to play on. If that was so there wouldn't be online donations with paypal, a site to advertise, etc. etc. L2extreme was shut down because it became a "business" if it was just a few friends, then no one would have known.
Developers are hired. People playing and donating on private servers does not directly affect the developers.
I am not sure what you mean here.
http://www.lineage2.com/news/news.html#a007871
its pretty much over.. a dark day for lineage 2 players all over the world. The official servers are just too hardcore for the normal mmorpg players.
Dark Day?
Sorry but stealing is stealing. I bet if someone started stealing from you you would be the first to put them in their place.
Lineage 2 is a completely playable game. It just takes a little bit of effort and for some people, a paradigm shift of what they want out of the game.
Now, if an argument were to be made that NC should create alternate rules servers, well then that is a different thing. I bet they would make a lot of money from that.
But I can never back the usage of another company's intellectual property.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
They estimate that millions of dollars are lost because "Omg they should of have paid for OUR game and paid us mth to mth!" instead of playing a casual private server.
"L2Extreme advertised on its website, www.l2extreme.com, that more than half million registered users had subscribed to play."
They make is sound as if they had a monthly charge. All we had to do was create a account a provide a valid email address, kinda like here.
In the end those losses impact our customer support, product development, operational areas and ultimately they impact our player communities, most of which are trying to play games legitimately."
Maybe we didnt want all that? Could we say fk your customer server etc etc?
Also:
They admit that ppl bot in thier own game and dont do shit.
The official Servers are full of l2walkers and farming bots and its barely playable becose of that.. you cant take on a person with a walker prophet. On the private servers the rules are set by the admins making each server a uniqe experience. The official servers just dont deliver... and not to mention how hard it is to gain adena on the official servers.. I played official when there was no noobie buffers or barely any lowbie quests worth using (alpha,beta,official release) and it took our clan about 1 month to hit like 50 for most of us and im talking about Dominus Aurora.. We pretty much dominated kain back then holding all the bosses (raid bosses wasnt inplented yet). And now the walkers and farming bots has taken over the official servers...
A darn dark day indeed.
http://www.es-l2.com/
If so...
FK!
I actually liked that aserver... The adena rate was balanced enough to where you could afford GM gear and didnt have to save up =(... So Long Hawkeye!
However how do you OWN a shape, a color, a idea? Isnt that what a game consist of?
And isnt L2 just another korean game that was translated to english, and sum1 else slapping thier name on it, if so, NC made nothing.
However how do you OWN a shape, a color, a idea? Isnt that what a game consist of?
And isnt L2 just another korean game that was translated to english, and sum1 else slapping thier name on it, if so, NC made nothing.
There's a lot of ignorance in this post.
game companies too many rights and Microsoft slaps all their asses down
allowing only BillGates sanctioned games to run on their OS. Hi,
NCsoft, want to write your own OS too?!
NC doesn't sell the game, btw. The client is free and the server had
no monitary value + it's dated and no longer used or supported by
them. The subscriptions pay for the service they provide on their
servers, which has completely sucked since they opened, hence the
success of privates.
If this goes to the courts, which I hope it does, it should be unique
and interesting. Cant wait to see some clueless judge cripple the
software industry some more.
All of the work put into L2 is the work of NC and it's developers. They have the right to give give the client away, charge for it, whatever.
It is not the right of some people who just don't like what they've done to take it and change it and then take donations to keep it running.
It is NC's right to be a sucky company, great company, etc. If you don't like it don't play.
Cripple the software industry?
If and when you make a game or software package you have the right to distribute it anyway you want. And NC has the right to distribute their game (read: THEIR GAME) any way they want.
It's not the intellectual property of the makers of the private servers. That is it. Cut and dried.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Sorry but the game isnt free, you need to buy a (cd) key to play it legaly, it isnt free to play and even if it was it's still their property and only they can use it, they have the rights for it and they paid for them, not like the free servers who didnt pay to use the game and intellectual property.
That said, it doesnt mean i dont think NCsoft sucks, they dont do anything about botters apart from the "yearly" ban and that doesnt change anything since most botters start botting right after it happens and have several accounts anyway. I have reported the same bots time and again and they dont ban them.... That's kind of sad since L2 is a pretty good game (in my opinion of course) and i hope private servers wont all close since it's the only way to play L2 like it should be... I bet most of the gold ebayer are NC's staff... but that's just my opinion, or if not they would care about it...
@naldric, the client is free. What you pay for and need a CD key for is their service (ie running servers, customer support, and profits from that). You can dl the client to you computer, look at the files, play the music etc etc and not pay NCsoft a dime, and if you read their copyright policy, they state quite clearly you can do whatever unless you charge a fee for it. The server files themselves are not a software package, are not sold and have no monitary value. You can quote EULA if you want, but that's not law and even NCsoft reps have said it's more of a guide to help them provide better service, and not all EULA and ROC clauses are enforced or equally enforced.
I'm not argruing that private servers are "right", but I am concered over the controls the companies are given over people modifying and reverse engineering current products and the laws created as companies are trying boost their profits. Much of the software industry was built on copying and immitation with companies allowing or forced to allow continued development and creativity.
To add, if NCsoft wasn't so draconian, rather creative and tried to emulate the atmosphere on private servers with a different variety of servers, this woudln't be an issue right now.
Developers are hired. People playing and donating on private servers does not directly affect the developers.
I am not sure what you mean here.
Really? Part of those players "might" have played the original, meaning more money for the main company, meaning more interest in their games, meaning that the developers get to keep their jobs and continue working in a field/for the company they have chosen.
Yes, you can make a very valid argument that many of those players wouldn't play the original retail game. But then they don't play. Obviouisly the game is not for them. It's not their decision or right to use the materials that NC designed for their own purposes. If you don't have the right to use something you don't have the right.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
good riddence to private servers?
NC efforts to stop it will be about as effective as media efforts to stop music piracy.
In the meanwhile NC will learn nothing and the retail servers will continue to suck.
Don't compare cars to software btw. But if you want too, a company like this wants to build a set of roads and build a car, you can build your own roads and your own car and long as you don't copy anything they did or impact their profits in any way. You can't ride their car on your roads btw, nor can you ride your car on their roads, or you end up in jail.
You follow? ... maybe? imo if the auto/transportation industry was offered the same rights software companies want, your ferrari would have never been built and this country would still be stuck in the 1800's.