You know, the millions of people who play WoW do so because they have fun. They honestly don't care about the fact that a handful of super hardcore MMORPG nerds are offended by its success. When they stop having fun, they leave, but they don't suddenly think the game is the Antichrist.
I'm trying to figure out what about WoW bothers people here so much. It's beyond dislike. It's beyond any kind of logic or reason. I think it's the fact that WoW highlights what MMORPG gameplay is and has been since the beginning: a timesink. There was never any challenge or skill involved in any of them. That doesn't mean they weren't fun. Advancement just had nothing to do with player skill. I suppose a lot of hardcore MMORPG gamers vest so much of their egos in MMORPG's that their heart breaks to admit that all the achievements they earned were only because they slogged away for thousands of hours, not because they were actually good at anything.
I suppose that's ultimately the difference between the casual and hardcore MMORPG player. Casuals play for fun. Hardcores play for ego.
Some people like more of a challenge and hardcore appoarch to there MMO's. I agree WOW was fun for the first 4-5 months for me and lots of people are still enjoying. It all depends on your own gaming preferences. I would love to see a new MMO come out just like AC's PVP. It was and still is the best PVP experience IMO. Most people however are not into the PVP aspect of MMOs.
I run the Mature Minded Gamers. We do video and board gaming videos and reviews. We also have a big Dungeons and Dragons community with multiple games active each week. Join us at: https://www.maturemindedgamers.com
In my opinion, for something to be challenging, people have to actually fail at it. If everybody succeeds at something, that's not a challenge. That's what even the old MMORPG's are. As long as you were willing to invest ridiculous amounts of time, you'd eventually get to the top tier of players. If you die and the game adds thirty hours to your grind to replace lost equipment or XP, that's not a challenge. That's just a nice coating of extra grind sauce for people who like it. I really wonder how many hardcore MMORPG players would like a MMORPG where you could play for one-thousand hours and still be on the bottom of the totem pole if you weren't up to the (actually difficult) challenges it provided.
No thx i dont ike Hardcore punishing in Games its not my Cup of tea. Spending hours for a equipment/gold and then just losing it becouse you got gangbanged? I play PvP for the Competition and not becouse i want to loot his items.
No thx i dont ike Hardcore punishing in Games its not my Cup of tea. Spending hours for a equipment/gold and then just losing it becouse you got gangbanged? I play PvP for the Competition and not becouse i want to loot his items.
......then maybe you should bank more often and roll with a group?
No thx i dont ike Hardcore punishing in Games its not my Cup of tea. Spending hours for a equipment/gold and then just losing it becouse you got gangbanged? I play PvP for the Competition and not becouse i want to loot his items.
......then maybe you should bank more often and roll with a group? How about i just dont play those kind of games? Are you one of those sort that jump with a 5 man group on one and when you kill him you scream !HAHA NOOB I GEWT YOUR LAWT!
No thx i dont ike Hardcore punishing in Games its not my Cup of tea. Spending hours for a equipment/gold and then just losing it becouse you got gangbanged? I play PvP for the Competition and not becouse i want to loot his items.
......then maybe you should bank more often and roll with a group? How about i just dont play those kind of games? Are you one of those sort that jump with a 5 man group on one and when you kill him you scream !HAHA NOOB I GEWT YOUR LAWT!
No thx i dont ike Hardcore punishing in Games its not my Cup of tea. Spending hours for a equipment/gold and then just losing it becouse you got gangbanged? I play PvP for the Competition and not becouse i want to loot his items.
......then maybe you should bank more often and roll with a group? How about i just dont play those kind of games? Are you one of those sort that jump with a 5 man group on one and when you kill him you scream !HAHA NOOB I GEWT YOUR LAWT!
QQ more IMO. Wow what a retarted answer thx for proving my point.
No thx i dont ike Hardcore punishing in Games its not my Cup of tea. Spending hours for a equipment/gold and then just losing it becouse you got gangbanged? I play PvP for the Competition and not becouse i want to loot his items.
......then maybe you should bank more often and roll with a group? How about i just dont play those kind of games? Are you one of those sort that jump with a 5 man group on one and when you kill him you scream !HAHA NOOB I GEWT YOUR LAWT!
QQ more IMO. Wow what a retarted answer thx for proving my point.
Seriously. It's now 2007 and look at the most popular mmos that we as gamers have so graciously accepted as our mmorpg of the year 2007. Shallow and non-challenging. Now before all you WOW fans try and flame me and tell me that WOW is challenging, I really want you to "stop" first and ask yourself if grinding out those top levels are really challenging or if its just boring. There IS a big difference you know! Isn't it sad when Ultima Online, even with all of its trammel "protect the weak at heart" nonsense is still one of the deepest and most challenging mmos out there? And what we have accepted as a replacement is pretty eye-candy that is nothing but a seriously long grind-fest and is quite honestly only a challenge to a retarded and blind monkey! Anyone's great grandmother or very young child can play and excel at a game like World of Warcraft. Hell, my 5 year old daughter plays it for crying out loud! She also plays "Barbie Horse Adventures" on my PS2. So perhaps 7.5 million should jump on Barbie's latest PS2 adventure because it too is simple and easy and mindless to play if you are over the age of say 8 years old. Some of you may call me hardcore. And that I am the exception rather the rule of what mmo fans love today. But that's exactly my point! Shouldn't more of us desire more challenge in our mmos? Shouldn't we want SOME kind of consequence of dying in the game?? I'm certainly not saying we should love a game where griefing is rewarded, but for crying out loud,we should like a game where there is big rewards for big risks and the simple fact is most of todays mmos have very little if no "risk" what-so-ever! You never lose a damn thing if you mindlessly run your level 6 avatar into a red level 50 mob. The higher the risk, the higher the reward! But if there is no risk (as in no death penalties) then the game is basically "no risk, all reward". And we wonder why so many get so bored of todays mmos after just a short period of time. Compare that to the avid fans of older mmos like the original Everquest, Asheron's Call (1), and the old school Ultima Online (Pre-Trammel). In those classics where there is a huge risk vs reward challenge, the fans of the late 90's when those games blossomed STILL play their games almost a decade later! We really should be ashamed for supporting such mindless, un-challenging, all-reward, no risk eye candy today. Go ahead and flame away WoW fans. but atleast provide some kind of thought process in your flames, please. - Zaxx
Not ashamed at all. I'm not playing WoW or EQ2 or any of the curent crop of MMO's. The only MMO I am currently subscribed to is EVE. Though I do also play UO.
Other than that, see my sig for what I am playing now.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
In my opinion, for something to be challenging, people have to actually fail at it. If everybody succeeds at something, that's not a challenge. That's what even the old MMORPG's are. As long as you were willing to invest ridiculous amounts of time, you'd eventually get to the top tier of players. If you die and the game adds thirty hours to your grind to replace lost equipment or XP, that's not a challenge. That's just a nice coating of extra grind sauce for people who like it. I really wonder how many hardcore MMORPG players would like a MMORPG where you could play for one-thousand hours and still be on the bottom of the totem pole if you weren't up to the (actually difficult) challenges it provided.
True only for some MMORPG's but in the interest of not starting flame wars I'm not going to get into this arguement. Suffice to say you haven't played some of the more hard-core MMORPG's if this is the way that you think.
I will leave it at this: Games that follow the EQ model fit the description you gave. Games that didn't... don't (generally speaking).
"I really wonder how many hardcore MMORPG players would like a MMORPG where you could play for one-thousand hours and still be on the bottom of the totem pole if you weren't up to the (actually difficult) challenges it provided."
Hehe.... I already play a game like that. It's called EVE online where even 3 year vets can still be on the bottom of the totem pole. Because skill points don't make you a good PVP'er or Alliance leader or Corporation CEO. They just give you access to more ships which you can either be good at or shitty at. Skills will help you kill NPC's all day.... Not much help against another player who's better at the game than you though.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
I don't think ANY mmo or RPG I play was ever really challenging.
Yes, I find SOME measure of challenge in them, but challenges are a side order, an extra, not the main course of the RPGs in general.
See, challenges can make a game fun...or boring. But, in the case of RPGs, they are not the main factor for the FUN. A shoorter/action game, everything lie in the challenge, there is very little else to offer. A RPG, and especially a MMORPG offer a LOT more than just challenge. Challenge is always going to be a welcome addition to me, but it must not replace the progression, the achievement, the developpment. Challenge is not the main course, otherwise it wouldn't be RPGs that would be popular, but challenging gameplays.
A RPG offer a journey, a path, a progression, friendships, common GOALS (not to be confused with challenges, challenges are a subpart of goals, not goals in themselves). I think more challenges could be added in the form of mini-games that doesn't directly impact the main game, that way peoples could meet challenges and maybe even progress within these mini games, beneficting from their other achievements in the MAIN gameplay (which is grouping, aka NOT raiding).
Taking a challenge-only path would lead to restricting your target audience, I like challenges myself, but they never where the first reason I pick games that are mostly build around achievement and progression, a path, a journey. If someone is unable to face said challenge, are you showing him the exit of the game? That is where games resolving around challenges fails. In a MMO-RPG, having mini games with challenges could be FUN for many players, without kicking players from the game itself, just from a mini-game they don't care about anyway.
If you want challenge, go play Chess or Battlefield 42 on the most hardcore settings (those you personnally dislike) and play against peoples who like these rules variants, and by all means, enjoy! RPGs are not built around challenges. Challenges are presents, yet not the center, not the main attraction, just a side order, an extra.
PS: Building a mini-game in a MMORPG that exist would have similar cost as creating a FLASH-game...which is very affordable!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
For someone who advocates the fact that there can be several ways of doing things you sure are very defensive and trying to take the high ground by talking down on the guy...
Awwww, Another "Hardcore" (read enjoys playing games at other peoples expense) throws his toys out of the pram because his favorite games are not as popular as Warcraft.
Another "Hardcore" gamer who is so self obsessed, he is completely oblivious to the fact that many players play a variety of MMORPG's for a variety of reasons. "Hey they dont like "My" games so they must be retarded monkeys, or kids, or both".
Well done in the world of generalisations. The MMO community never ceases to amaze me, you have "Hardcore RP'ers" who will not tolerate and form of OOC conversation, and no matter how new a player is will be verbally abusive to that player for the slightest faux pas.
You have the "Hardcore PVP" Brigade, who can only get enjoyment in killing other players regardless of level equivalency.
"Hardcore" raiders, who will not tolerate casual players, and throw the dummy (Pacifier if your the wrong side of the pond), if a game panders in any way to casual gameplay.
This is exactly why no company will likely ever make an mmo with any damn challenge to it again. This is most peoples thought process. Just like Jimmy's here. If I want challenge in my game, then hook electrodes to my nads and shock my nads everytime I take damage in the game eh? Great. Let me do that with a friggin retarded game like "WoW" where if my level 17 character fights a certain level 19 mob, then my BEST result is going to be taking about 95% of my health bar in damage. This is because I really have no skillful way of dodging any bolts from that mob or avoiding any damage coming. I just take it. Even if I jump over the fireball or run behind a rock, the god damn bolt will swirve and turn and hit me in my ass regardless! This is what I am talking about! Just point and click everything, over and over and over and over. Point and click. never actually use any skill to manuever or heal quickly or anything. Just mindlessly clicking away with no risk vs reward factor what-so-ever. And now you really think I'm gonna hook electrodes to my nads based on that total BS where I'm guaranteed to take tons of damage??!! Nooo. You just don't get it.
I mean what's next people?? A new mmo that gets 30 million players just because it is made by "Square-Enix" that has everyone in a huge field doing nothing but catching treasure, gold, and mad loot falling from the sky!?? No even having to bother with actually fighting any mobs! WOW! Just run around and catch falling loot from the sky! Ohhhh and it'll be so damn brilliant cuz if two players actually try and get the same hunk of falling loot, BOTH players that are close will get the same fallen piece of loot! We can't actually have any competition you know! Boy! Think of it! ALL REWARDS! NO RISKS! NO CHALLENGE! YAY!
It's not that I hate WoW. Not that I think I am superior to those who do like WoW or a similar game like it. It's simply the fact that I can't believe so many people are flocking so much to games like WoW that really offer so little in the challenge, skill, and risk vs reward departments.
Flame on WoW lovers. But I know that there are plenty who agree with me, whether they are responding or not here.
Oh, and Jimmy, this is the medium (an mmo game forum) where I and others like me have as much right to complain about the lack luster mmos today as you have the rights to insult and degrade them for the games that they like. You are great at flaming, I must admit. Perhaps you'd excel at an mmo where you get rewarded for flaming others posts. You do so well at it, bro.
For someone who advocates the fact that there can be several ways of doing things you sure are very defensive and trying to take the high ground by talking down on the guy...
Actually, I was on the attack. I've been in flamewars with Zax before and I like to speak in a language that he can understand.
And while I realize that this is a forum and you're free to say whatever, I still think that Zax could redirect that energy he uses to bait people into something more constructive. If you really want a "hardcore" <snicker> MMO, make one. Of course he wouldn't have anything to bitch about then. So I guess everyone would win but Zax.
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
How many easy mode/normal MMO's are there which require nothing much and don't really pose a challenge?
How many MMO's are there that are 'hardcore' (someone else's words), which DO require a tad more and due to a more 'harsh' way of doing things make things more challenges, makes a victory taste sweeter as defeat would have been more costly?
Exactly, there's tons of normal ones, and almost no 'hardcore' (again, someone else's words, not my choice but you understand what I mean). There's tons of MMO's, old and new, who pose no challenge, which don't have any real highs because there aren't any real lows, which just make the player waealthier, stronger with no repercussions if that player fekked up or is just stupid.
Ok, given the fact that there's several ways of doing things, that people might like different things in different ways it's not that odd to have someone who like the more 'harsh' MMO's starts to cry about the fact that there are just about zero of those. EVE is a good example of a more harsh environment and yes I'm an EVE player, but understand that people who like a bit more of a challenge from an MMO aren't by default evil PKers, nasty people who eat babies for breakfast. We just like more of a challenge...
And as any person/group, we want to be heard and if possible have SOME options to choose from, as it stands there's hardly any MMO for these people. Would there have been 1 or 2 good MMO's that also cater for the other type of player like us I'm sure you wouldn't hear us whine about it. But most of the new MMO's that come out are just sad little happy happy loot/gold/level/ubah sword copies the same old thing. I'm betaing LOTRO so you have some idea of how much I'm gritting my teeth with that one hehehe, yet I beta it to test it and find some bugs, but I'm certainly not one of their future customers.
People like different things, that's a fact. Atm only mainstream MMO's are coming out, we feel neglected.
I think MMORPGS out in the market right now are fine. We have games that offer little boys and girls a heartly challenge after school(like vanguard, so does its fans claimed), and we have silly and simple games (wow) that offers people with social engagements some relaxation after work.
I think MMORPGS out in the market right now are fine. We have games that offer little boys and girls a heartly challenge after school(like vanguard, so does its fans claimed), and we have silly and simple games (wow) that offers people with social engagements some relaxation after work.
"little boys and girls"?
Your whole comment sounds like the typical carebear who can only see black and white, who screams and yells when things are too difficult, too challenging and actually require some effort. Think beyond 'us' and 'them' (if you're capable of doing that) and find that things aren't black nor white, they're mostly grey.
Kinda odd that I'm not little nor young, actually LIKE social engagement and interaction, am a really nice guy (even in games which give me the option of being a nasty ****), who has played a ton of MMO's including WOW and liked it to a point, you won't see me bashing WOW in any way BUT I also happen to like MMO's like EVE, I like to have a challenge and feel that if there's no pain there can't be any gain. I like to be challenged, to have to choose things and to learn and improve because I HAVE to, because the game is 'difficult'.
Where in your black and white world do I fit in then?
Comments
Even to myself I'm a genius
No.
You know, the millions of people who play WoW do so because they have fun. They honestly don't care about the fact that a handful of super hardcore MMORPG nerds are offended by its success. When they stop having fun, they leave, but they don't suddenly think the game is the Antichrist.
I'm trying to figure out what about WoW bothers people here so much. It's beyond dislike. It's beyond any kind of logic or reason. I think it's the fact that WoW highlights what MMORPG gameplay is and has been since the beginning: a timesink. There was never any challenge or skill involved in any of them. That doesn't mean they weren't fun. Advancement just had nothing to do with player skill. I suppose a lot of hardcore MMORPG gamers vest so much of their egos in MMORPG's that their heart breaks to admit that all the achievements they earned were only because they slogged away for thousands of hours, not because they were actually good at anything.
I suppose that's ultimately the difference between the casual and hardcore MMORPG player. Casuals play for fun. Hardcores play for ego.
Some people like more of a challenge and hardcore appoarch to there MMO's. I agree WOW was fun for the first 4-5 months for me and lots of people are still enjoying. It all depends on your own gaming preferences. I would love to see a new MMO come out just like AC's PVP. It was and still is the best PVP experience IMO. Most people however are not into the PVP aspect of MMOs.
Join us at: https://www.maturemindedgamers.com
In my opinion, for something to be challenging, people have to actually fail at it. If everybody succeeds at something, that's not a challenge. That's what even the old MMORPG's are. As long as you were willing to invest ridiculous amounts of time, you'd eventually get to the top tier of players. If you die and the game adds thirty hours to your grind to replace lost equipment or XP, that's not a challenge. That's just a nice coating of extra grind sauce for people who like it. I really wonder how many hardcore MMORPG players would like a MMORPG where you could play for one-thousand hours and still be on the bottom of the totem pole if you weren't up to the (actually difficult) challenges it provided.
QQ more IMO.
QQ more IMO. Wow what a retarted answer thx for proving my point.
QQ more IMO. Wow what a retarted answer thx for proving my point.
Thanks for proving mine. Irony anyone?
Not ashamed at all. I'm not playing WoW or EQ2 or any of the curent crop of MMO's. The only MMO I am currently subscribed to is EVE. Though I do also play UO.
Other than that, see my sig for what I am playing now.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
I will leave it at this: Games that follow the EQ model fit the description you gave. Games that didn't... don't (generally speaking).
"I really wonder how many hardcore MMORPG players would like a MMORPG where you could play for one-thousand hours and still be on the bottom of the totem pole if you weren't up to the (actually difficult) challenges it provided."
Hehe.... I already play a game like that. It's called EVE online where even 3 year vets can still be on the bottom of the totem pole. Because skill points don't make you a good PVP'er or Alliance leader or Corporation CEO. They just give you access to more ships which you can either be good at or shitty at. Skills will help you kill NPC's all day.... Not much help against another player who's better at the game than you though.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
I don't think ANY mmo or RPG I play was ever really challenging.
Yes, I find SOME measure of challenge in them, but challenges are a side order, an extra, not the main course of the RPGs in general.
See, challenges can make a game fun...or boring. But, in the case of RPGs, they are not the main factor for the FUN. A shoorter/action game, everything lie in the challenge, there is very little else to offer. A RPG, and especially a MMORPG offer a LOT more than just challenge. Challenge is always going to be a welcome addition to me, but it must not replace the progression, the achievement, the developpment. Challenge is not the main course, otherwise it wouldn't be RPGs that would be popular, but challenging gameplays.
A RPG offer a journey, a path, a progression, friendships, common GOALS (not to be confused with challenges, challenges are a subpart of goals, not goals in themselves). I think more challenges could be added in the form of mini-games that doesn't directly impact the main game, that way peoples could meet challenges and maybe even progress within these mini games, beneficting from their other achievements in the MAIN gameplay (which is grouping, aka NOT raiding).
Taking a challenge-only path would lead to restricting your target audience, I like challenges myself, but they never where the first reason I pick games that are mostly build around achievement and progression, a path, a journey. If someone is unable to face said challenge, are you showing him the exit of the game? That is where games resolving around challenges fails. In a MMO-RPG, having mini games with challenges could be FUN for many players, without kicking players from the game itself, just from a mini-game they don't care about anyway.
If you want challenge, go play Chess or Battlefield 42 on the most hardcore settings (those you personnally dislike) and play against peoples who like these rules variants, and by all means, enjoy! RPGs are not built around challenges. Challenges are presents, yet not the center, not the main attraction, just a side order, an extra.
PS: Building a mini-game in a MMORPG that exist would have similar cost as creating a FLASH-game...which is very affordable!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
For someone who advocates the fact that there can be several ways of doing things you sure are very defensive and trying to take the high ground by talking down on the guy...
Awwww, Another "Hardcore" (read enjoys playing games at other peoples expense) throws his toys out of the pram because his favorite games are not as popular as Warcraft.
Another "Hardcore" gamer who is so self obsessed, he is completely oblivious to the fact that many players play a variety of MMORPG's for a variety of reasons. "Hey they dont like "My" games so they must be retarded monkeys, or kids, or both".
Well done in the world of generalisations. The MMO community never ceases to amaze me, you have "Hardcore RP'ers" who will not tolerate and form of OOC conversation, and no matter how new a player is will be verbally abusive to that player for the slightest faux pas.
You have the "Hardcore PVP" Brigade, who can only get enjoyment in killing other players regardless of level equivalency.
"Hardcore" raiders, who will not tolerate casual players, and throw the dummy (Pacifier if your the wrong side of the pond), if a game panders in any way to casual gameplay.
Hail the "Hardcores" they obviosly know best!!
Hardcore, my arse. We're talking about video games here...passive things you do sitting down in front of a computer.
If you want hardcore, masturbate with some Icy Hot.
LoL.
This is exactly why no company will likely ever make an mmo with any damn challenge to it again. This is most peoples thought process. Just like Jimmy's here. If I want challenge in my game, then hook electrodes to my nads and shock my nads everytime I take damage in the game eh? Great. Let me do that with a friggin retarded game like "WoW" where if my level 17 character fights a certain level 19 mob, then my BEST result is going to be taking about 95% of my health bar in damage. This is because I really have no skillful way of dodging any bolts from that mob or avoiding any damage coming. I just take it. Even if I jump over the fireball or run behind a rock, the god damn bolt will swirve and turn and hit me in my ass regardless! This is what I am talking about! Just point and click everything, over and over and over and over. Point and click. never actually use any skill to manuever or heal quickly or anything. Just mindlessly clicking away with no risk vs reward factor what-so-ever. And now you really think I'm gonna hook electrodes to my nads based on that total BS where I'm guaranteed to take tons of damage??!! Nooo. You just don't get it.
I mean what's next people?? A new mmo that gets 30 million players just because it is made by "Square-Enix" that has everyone in a huge field doing nothing but catching treasure, gold, and mad loot falling from the sky!?? No even having to bother with actually fighting any mobs! WOW! Just run around and catch falling loot from the sky! Ohhhh and it'll be so damn brilliant cuz if two players actually try and get the same hunk of falling loot, BOTH players that are close will get the same fallen piece of loot! We can't actually have any competition you know! Boy! Think of it! ALL REWARDS! NO RISKS! NO CHALLENGE! YAY!
It's not that I hate WoW. Not that I think I am superior to those who do like WoW or a similar game like it. It's simply the fact that I can't believe so many people are flocking so much to games like WoW that really offer so little in the challenge, skill, and risk vs reward departments.
Flame on WoW lovers. But I know that there are plenty who agree with me, whether they are responding or not here.
Oh, and Jimmy, this is the medium (an mmo game forum) where I and others like me have as much right to complain about the lack luster mmos today as you have the rights to insult and degrade them for the games that they like. You are great at flaming, I must admit. Perhaps you'd excel at an mmo where you get rewarded for flaming others posts. You do so well at it, bro.
- Zaxx
For someone who advocates the fact that there can be several ways of doing things you sure are very defensive and trying to take the high ground by talking down on the guy...
Actually, I was on the attack. I've been in flamewars with Zax before and I like to speak in a language that he can understand.
And while I realize that this is a forum and you're free to say whatever, I still think that Zax could redirect that energy he uses to bait people into something more constructive. If you really want a "hardcore" <snicker> MMO, make one. Of course he wouldn't have anything to bitch about then. So I guess everyone would win but Zax.
Play nicely now or Kitty gets scared
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Razorback, I'll assume you're the mod who deleted Jimmy's post. Why delete it and leave the next's guy post that fully quotes it? /boggle.
If it's not you, then waggle a finger at the dude that did it.
BTW, where in Australia do you live?
BTW Razor? You gonna eat that?
I'll publicly apologize if you kill that cat....
Look at it this way;
How many easy mode/normal MMO's are there which require nothing much and don't really pose a challenge?
How many MMO's are there that are 'hardcore' (someone else's words), which DO require a tad more and due to a more 'harsh' way of doing things make things more challenges, makes a victory taste sweeter as defeat would have been more costly?
Exactly, there's tons of normal ones, and almost no 'hardcore' (again, someone else's words, not my choice but you understand what I mean). There's tons of MMO's, old and new, who pose no challenge, which don't have any real highs because there aren't any real lows, which just make the player waealthier, stronger with no repercussions if that player fekked up or is just stupid.
Ok, given the fact that there's several ways of doing things, that people might like different things in different ways it's not that odd to have someone who like the more 'harsh' MMO's starts to cry about the fact that there are just about zero of those. EVE is a good example of a more harsh environment and yes I'm an EVE player, but understand that people who like a bit more of a challenge from an MMO aren't by default evil PKers, nasty people who eat babies for breakfast. We just like more of a challenge...
And as any person/group, we want to be heard and if possible have SOME options to choose from, as it stands there's hardly any MMO for these people. Would there have been 1 or 2 good MMO's that also cater for the other type of player like us I'm sure you wouldn't hear us whine about it. But most of the new MMO's that come out are just sad little happy happy loot/gold/level/ubah sword copies the same old thing. I'm betaing LOTRO so you have some idea of how much I'm gritting my teeth with that one hehehe, yet I beta it to test it and find some bugs, but I'm certainly not one of their future customers.
People like different things, that's a fact. Atm only mainstream MMO's are coming out, we feel neglected.
I think MMORPGS out in the market right now are fine. We have games that offer little boys and girls a heartly challenge after school(like vanguard, so does its fans claimed), and we have silly and simple games (wow) that offers people with social engagements some relaxation after work.
"little boys and girls"?
Your whole comment sounds like the typical carebear who can only see black and white, who screams and yells when things are too difficult, too challenging and actually require some effort. Think beyond 'us' and 'them' (if you're capable of doing that) and find that things aren't black nor white, they're mostly grey.
Kinda odd that I'm not little nor young, actually LIKE social engagement and interaction, am a really nice guy (even in games which give me the option of being a nasty ****), who has played a ton of MMO's including WOW and liked it to a point, you won't see me bashing WOW in any way BUT I also happen to like MMO's like EVE, I like to have a challenge and feel that if there's no pain there can't be any gain. I like to be challenged, to have to choose things and to learn and improve because I HAVE to, because the game is 'difficult'.
Where in your black and white world do I fit in then?