asfar as the thing about us jumping ship when a new PVP game comes out. well I'm sorry that doesnt seem very likely i mean come on eve has been out since 2003 and its player base has been steadly (slowly albeit) growing and still is growing and how many decent PVP games have come out since 2003? theres been a few. most of EVE's players haven't jumped ship for those what makes you think they will for any others?
Well maybe our definitions of decent and good are different. I thought UO PVP was Very Good, Daoc 1yr after release was Good, Daoc 4yrs after release decent. I dont play Eve but I will just concede the pvp could either be Decent or Good if I did choose to play it. WoW PVP was Decent.
So I am curious what the other games are that have been released after Eve that are decent or above? Because surely if a good MMO pvp game has been released since Eve then I am really missing something.
By my definition all existing PVP games have yet to have their PVP playerbase tested for loyalty do to nothing very good even being released. I suspect Warhammer will change that, but I am not positive. There would be no reason for someone to leave a decent game for a bad game. Therefore my point still stands that 50% of Eve players are looking for a new MMO, but nothing is really out there at the moment.
No it was a pretty obvious comparison to the whacked-out logic you were trying to employ in your argument. Remember what they say about assuming?
I'm an avid EVE player, I also spend a lot of my WORKDAY browsing MMORPG among other sites. I'm not looking for a game to replace EVE in any way. I usually have subs going to 2 different MMO's at a time, EVE for my sci-fi fix and another MMO for my fantasy fix. I'm currently in the market for a new fantasy game as a secondary game, AoC looks to be that game but we'll see what else comes up..
LOL gg for killing your own arguement with your own post. So I said most people who visit this site are looking for a new MMO to play. You disproved me by saying you are an Eve player who comes here and is looking for a new game to play? I can see know why you are having difficulty understanding my posts. For some people its difficult to distinguish deductive reasoning to no reasoning at all. I am not sure I can help you with that however. Its probably best if instead of trying to understand posts, that you just post how they are whacked out, without explaining why they are, because that is so much easier?
LOL gg for killing your own arguement with your own post. So I said most people who visit this site are looking for a new MMO to play. You disproved me by saying you are an Eve player who comes here and is looking for a new game to play? I can see know why you are having difficulty understanding my posts. For some people its difficult to distinguish deductive reasoning to no reasoning at all. I am not sure I can help you with that however. Its probably best if instead of trying to understand posts, that you just post how they are whacked out, without explaining why they are, because that is so much easier?
Here's a fun fact for you.
Each of the reader's choice award catagories had between 5-6k votes. EVE won best game with 2/3rds of the votes, so we'll say that they recieved 4000 votes. Even assuming every one of those players wants to quit EVE (the logic behind that assertion is referred to by smart people as "insane logical fallacies"), then that's less then 2% of the game population.
So even assuming that your logic is correct (which it isnt, it's actually so stupid that I thought you were being sarcastic until you started defending it), your numbers are off by more then an order of magnitude.
I'd say that the Chewbacca Defense was a perfectly apt proof of why your posts have all sucked.
Originally posted by Rattrap True statement would be "PVP in EVE enables more experienced players to make money by ganking newbies"
There is very little money to be made ganking newbies. They just don't have anything worth taking, you'll be happy if the loot is enough to pay for the ammo you used to kill them.
It's the clueless mission running veterans that give the real the good stuff and to kill those you don't have to have a year worth of skillpoints, because as said above they are mostly clueless about anything other than missions.
Btw looking at the video footage I would dare guess most if it is from the last Alliance PVP Tournament. I base this guess on the huge amount of remote boosting shown in the video, something that is very uncommon in day to day pvp.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
No it was a pretty obvious comparison to the whacked-out logic you were trying to employ in your argument. Remember what they say about assuming?
I'm an avid EVE player, I also spend a lot of my WORKDAY browsing MMORPG among other sites. I'm not looking for a game to replace EVE in any way. I usually have subs going to 2 different MMO's at a time, EVE for my sci-fi fix and another MMO for my fantasy fix. I'm currently in the market for a new fantasy game as a secondary game, AoC looks to be that game but we'll see what else comes up..
LOL gg for killing your own arguement with your own post. So I said most people who visit this site are looking for a new MMO to play. You disproved me by saying you are an Eve player who comes here and is looking for a new game to play? I can see know why you are having difficulty understanding my posts. For some people its difficult to distinguish deductive reasoning to no reasoning at all. I am not sure I can help you with that however. Its probably best if instead of trying to understand posts, that you just post how they are whacked out, without explaining why they are, because that is so much easier? How in the hell did I kill my own argument? I have been playing EVE since release and I have no intention of quitting the game in at least the next 3. I'm not however retarded enough to think that I won't need another game to play from time to time when I need a break from EVE, hence the need for a SECONDARY MMO to play. I visit this site for the news articles and interviews because I'm interested in what is upcoming in the world of MMO's.
Do you even know what deductive reasoning is? You're previous posts were whacked out because you are using assumptions based on 'facts' that you pulled out of your ass. The number of EVE subscribers that use this site is a few hundred at best, a far cry from 50% of the 170k subs that EVE has. If you look at the EVE boards on here there are far more new players trying trials than there are regular eve posters.
surely you do realize that on a school network that torrents at about up to a gig/sec that that video takes a while to download(windows media player does have self imposed bottle necks though for bandwidth... running at that max takes a while)
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
I more or less understand what Brainy is trying to say but somewhat different.
IMHO EVE is the first game of a new generation of "games". But this means it has trademarks of something that isn't a game. Does this affect how a pleyer feels about EVE?
Yes. I've played WoW and what I noticed there was the near perfection of what I call "The Drive". The drive to play on. The constant choosing of new, small and seemingly achievable goals. And the ever renewed feeling of accomplishment. In short: It's an addictive game. You will see the same thing in other addictive games.
WoW knows a lot, if not all of them. Note that in games many of the gameplay mechanics (like the magic behind the game) are hidden. This often gives the illusion that things like game balancing are easy.
EVE works differently. There is so much freedom that one has to set own goals. In effect, it's more a sim than a game. And the problem is that many people who are interested in gaming desire... A game. So I guess WoW in space would do much better than EVE, and would actually drain a lot of EVE players.
Why?
EVE lacks an easily understandable drive/motivation to play on.
It's "complicated". (I don't think it is, but meh)
Lots of dead spaces, where the player is left without the actual "game". Like warping, or mining.
On the other hand...
EVE does has a few things that makes even an ex-gamer (yes, for some time I have been frequenting these forums without playing an mmo or any game, sue me) like me at least interested.
Mature community, mainly because it's a hard game (meaning it has a steep learning curve).
A challenge.
You know it will take some time (3-4 years?) to do everything and to see it all.
No crap with limited content (aka crap with costly expansion packs), yet.
Possibly casual.
Multi-layered. I don't think a few battleships will actually do an effort to catch me (assuming I can run) as a total newb. Their ammo probably costs more than my ship.
Stimulates creativity in stead of forcing someone to choose a particular path.
Note that all the above aren't constants or asured to everyone.
So in conlusion I think many EVE players want a GAME a lot like EVE. Not a sim or a sandbox game.
I've played both games extensively. They're very different. I don't understand why people get into a hoo-hah about that, because the games are very different.
EVE is really an economic/military/political simulator based in space. It's a long-term commitment, it requires a lot of focus, energy and brainpower, and as a result it is much more of a niche game -- not just because it is sci-fi, but because it is damned complex, hard to learn and as a result less accessible than most games are. At its best, EVE is completely engrossing, involving its players in virtual wars of their own making, allowing people to exercise real world skills i(planning, strategy, leadership, diplomacy, etc.) n a virtual environment -- and for a certain personality type, this becomes very addictive in itself because the alternative reality becomes MORE real -- it becomes a real second life for a lot of people who play EVE. Sure, EVE's skill system allows one to train offline and this is casual-friendly, but most of the advanced players in EVE play anything other than casually and pour a great amount of their energy, intellect, drive and passion into their virtual lives in the EVE cluster. It's that aspect of it that I think is off-putting to many. I played EVE for almost three years (not counting breaks) and at times I found it completely engrossing. At other times, I just felt like I wanted something that was more relaxing, more of a game, and less of a virtual life. The politics of EVE can be very unforgiving ... enemies are made and remain enemies for years, scheming and backstabbing is constant, war and reprisal -- it's at once very exciting and yet also very stressful, consuming and draining. A lot of people don't want that in a pasttime for the long term. Eventually I was one of them. While I do not knock EVE, because I had tremendous fun playing the game on all levels, after a time I came to a point in my life where I wanted more of a "game" and less of a "virtual life", and so I quit EVE for good.
WoW is more of a "game". Sure you can RP in WoW (and I do that as well), but it's light-hearted, the emphasis is on fun and entertainment, on relaxation. Can WoW be super-stressful if you are running raid instances all the time? Sure it can, but that's not most of the game, and it isn't the way most of the players play WoW. I find it interesting that some other posters have concluded that they couldn't see themselves playing a game like WoW as an older gamer, but for me (pushing 40, heh), it's been exactly the opposite. As I have gotten older and more busy in other areas of life, I really don't have the time to lead a virtual life like EVE offers -- my one real life is consuming enough -- but I do have the time for a few hours of progress in WoW on this or that character, and the fun camaraderie of others who are similarly minded in the guilds I belong to. It's more light-hearted fun, more relaxing, and more of what I am looking for in a game when I come home from an already very mentally draining professional day.
I think people should just realize that EVE and WoW are just two fantastic games, but designed for people who are looking for different things, regardless of their ages or situation in life.
i always get pulled to eve by its looks and sci-fi theme.. and always want to give it another chanse.. but whenever i start playing it i realize why i keep quitting..
I like eve, its a great game.. but.. I takes too much time to get stuff done. It's great to have a huge universe. It's bad it takes forever. I want a game not a 2nd job. What's this? manual is faster than auto pilot? Yay! I can sit there for 60 mins manualing gate jumping! Korean style grinding is more fun that that. Now people don't have to mine but at the beginning.. we all had to mine, even the pirates minned. Pvp was fun if I could get to it. But it takes so long to get anywere. As for pvp I've had more lots more fun in L2 castle seiges.
Eve online is the only game I've ever played while reading a book.
Eve is great but other games let me get to the fun faster.
Get home 9 hours later and wait a couple of hours more for the travel to stop.
Buy some crap for your money.
Talk with your corp about how cool EvE is.
Fight some bandits by massing your attack keys, hull repair, shield repair and make sure the computer keeps the optimal distance for you.
Go to bed.
That's my opinion at least.
Let the bombardment begin.
You've managed to sum up my exact opinion of EVE right there. On more thing to mention is that when you finally finish loading after a jump, you've most probably been shot out of the, eh, "space".
EVE would be a great game if it didn't use point and click controls but went for direct control instead.
Get home 9 hours later and wait a couple of hours more for the travel to stop.
Buy some crap for your money.
Talk with your corp about how cool EvE is.
Fight some bandits by massing your attack keys, hull repair, shield repair and make sure the computer keeps the optimal distance for you.
Go to bed.
That's my opinion at least.
Let the bombardment begin.
You've managed to sum up my exact opinion of EVE right there. On more thing to mention is that when you finally finish loading after a jump, you've most probably been shot out of the, eh, "space".
EVE would be a great game if it didn't use point and click controls but went for direct control instead.
Actually, it would be a terrible game - twitch flight controls do not work when you have a 300 ping. Personally, I think Jackcolt has no idea what he's talking about, but thats just me sharing my opinion too.
Get home 9 hours later and wait a couple of hours more for the travel to stop.
Buy some crap for your money.
Talk with your corp about how cool EvE is.
Fight some bandits by massing your attack keys, hull repair, shield repair and make sure the computer keeps the optimal distance for you.
Go to bed.
That's my opinion at least.
Let the bombardment begin.
You've managed to sum up my exact opinion of EVE right there. On more thing to mention is that when you finally finish loading after a jump, you've most probably been shot out of the, eh, "space".
EVE would be a great game if it didn't use point and click controls but went for direct control instead.
Actually, it would be a terrible game - twitch flight controls do not work when you have a 300 ping. Personally, I think Jackcolt has no idea what he's talking about, but thats just me sharing my opinion too. With good network code, a ping of 300 would not be an issue, especially if the game still used aimed turrets. I personally feel EVE could have been so much more with direct control. I'm still waiting for a space MMO that utilizes direct control, but manages to keep all the Elite and beyond elements that EVE incorporates into the game so successfully.
You've managed to sum up my exact opinion of EVE right there. On more thing to mention is that when you finally finish loading after a jump, you've most probably been shot out of the, eh, "space".
EVE would be a great game if it didn't use point and click controls but went for direct control instead.
Actually, it would be a terrible game - twitch flight controls do not work when you have a 300 ping. Personally, I think Jackcolt has no idea what he's talking about, but thats just me sharing my opinion too. With good network code, a ping of 300 would not be an issue, especially if the game still used aimed turrets. I personally feel EVE could have been so much more with direct control. I'm still waiting for a space MMO that utilizes direct control, but manages to keep all the Elite and beyond elements that EVE incorporates into the game so successfully. Yes 300 ping WOULD be an issue with direct control, have you ever tried to play against someone in an FPS with 300 ping, they warp all over the place and are near impossible to kill, now imagine that type of gameplay with 50-100+ players in the same grid. Anyone who didn't have a fibre connection to the server would get flooded with data as there would be MEGABYTES of data being transferred to each client every second. The only way you can have direct control schemes that work in MMO's is to use heavy instancing, i.e. DDO and just look what happens when that game lags.
Besides that is the fact that all of the ships in EVE are capital sized vessels. As I've said before. Have you ever seen two 747's dogfighting? NO. They why would you expect ships that are at least 10x the size of them to do it, whether they're in space or not. The control scheme for EVE is appropriate to the type of game it is and it works perfectly fine.
I love how you show soo much flashy footage and then you show like a 3 second still shot of what the pvp is ACTUALLY like and then skip right past it.
PvP is like this...
You click on a text pull down with a list of ships... you then right click the ship you want to attack and click set orbit at x-distance... you then click ur weapons to activate them so that they automatically fire for you. Then you wait to see if you win. Chances are you will never see the enemy ship on ur screen the whole battle... u will be zoomed all the way out till he is just a dot and so is your ship. I guess you could zoom in on ur ship when he shoots back and u might see something like the explosion from the video but its not like you have any control over it anyway.
I love how you show soo much flashy footage and then you show like a 3 second still shot of what the pvp is ACTUALLY like and then skip right past it. PvP is like this... You click on a text pull down with a list of ships... you then right click the ship you want to attack and click set orbit at x-distance... you then click ur weapons to activate them so that they automatically fire for you. Then you wait to see if you win. Chances are you will never see the enemy ship on ur screen the whole battle... u will be zoomed all the way out till he is just a dot and so is your ship. I guess you could zoom in on ur ship when he shoots back and u might see something like the explosion from the video but its not like you have any control over it anyway.
WOW you PVP'ed like that? No offense but how many times did you die?
What your describing could be level 1 missions maybe but other then that I would say you never went out of empire with out being podded real quick.
Comments
Well maybe our definitions of decent and good are different. I thought UO PVP was Very Good, Daoc 1yr after release was Good, Daoc 4yrs after release decent. I dont play Eve but I will just concede the pvp could either be Decent or Good if I did choose to play it. WoW PVP was Decent.
So I am curious what the other games are that have been released after Eve that are decent or above? Because surely if a good MMO pvp game has been released since Eve then I am really missing something.
By my definition all existing PVP games have yet to have their PVP playerbase tested for loyalty do to nothing very good even being released. I suspect Warhammer will change that, but I am not positive. There would be no reason for someone to leave a decent game for a bad game. Therefore my point still stands that 50% of Eve players are looking for a new MMO, but nothing is really out there at the moment.
Each of the reader's choice award catagories had between 5-6k votes. EVE won best game with 2/3rds of the votes, so we'll say that they recieved 4000 votes. Even assuming every one of those players wants to quit EVE (the logic behind that assertion is referred to by smart people as "insane logical fallacies"), then that's less then 2% of the game population.
So even assuming that your logic is correct (which it isnt, it's actually so stupid that I thought you were being sarcastic until you started defending it), your numbers are off by more then an order of magnitude.
I'd say that the Chewbacca Defense was a perfectly apt proof of why your posts have all sucked.
It's the clueless mission running veterans that give the real the good stuff and to kill those you don't have to have a year worth of skillpoints, because as said above they are mostly clueless about anything other than missions.
Btw looking at the video footage I would dare guess most if it is from the last Alliance PVP Tournament. I base this guess on the huge amount of remote boosting shown in the video, something that is very uncommon in day to day pvp.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Do you even know what deductive reasoning is? You're previous posts were whacked out because you are using assumptions based on 'facts' that you pulled out of your ass. The number of EVE subscribers that use this site is a few hundred at best, a far cry from 50% of the 170k subs that EVE has. If you look at the EVE boards on here there are far more new players trying trials than there are regular eve posters.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
IMHO EVE is the first game of a new generation of "games". But this means it has trademarks of something that isn't a game. Does this affect how a pleyer feels about EVE?
Yes. I've played WoW and what I noticed there was the near perfection of what I call "The Drive". The drive to play on. The constant choosing of new, small and seemingly achievable goals. And the ever renewed feeling of accomplishment. In short: It's an addictive game. You will see the same thing in other addictive games.
This is an interesting list of things that make a game addictive.
WoW knows a lot, if not all of them. Note that in games many of the gameplay mechanics (like the magic behind the game) are hidden. This often gives the illusion that things like game balancing are easy.
EVE works differently. There is so much freedom that one has to set own goals. In effect, it's more a sim than a game. And the problem is that many people who are interested in gaming desire... A game. So I guess WoW in space would do much better than EVE, and would actually drain a lot of EVE players.
Why?
On the other hand...
EVE does has a few things that makes even an ex-gamer (yes, for some time I have been frequenting these forums without playing an mmo or any game, sue me) like me at least interested.
- Mature community, mainly because it's a hard game (meaning it has a steep learning curve).
- A challenge.
- You know it will take some time (3-4 years?) to do everything and to see it all.
- No crap with limited content (aka crap with costly expansion packs), yet.
- Possibly casual.
- Multi-layered. I don't think a few battleships will actually do an effort to catch me (assuming I can run) as a total newb. Their ammo probably costs more than my ship.
- Stimulates creativity in stead of forcing someone to choose a particular path.
Note that all the above aren't constants or asured to everyone.So in conlusion I think many EVE players want a GAME a lot like EVE. Not a sim or a sandbox game.
CLICK HERE TO GET A LIST OF FREE MMO LISTS!!!
I dont think nobody in his right mind could say EVE is bad game.
And if he does, it is just because he or she is completely misinformed.
Problem with EVE - at least for me
For all the greatness , it is very very complex. It surely could be played as a simple game - but than you are missing most of the fun.
So it is complex. Which is great.
Except , some people just dont have time, nerves, or dedication for such game.
As i said before in some forum
Dont ask what EVE can offer you , ask what you can offer EVE
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
EVE is really an economic/military/political simulator based in space. It's a long-term commitment, it requires a lot of focus, energy and brainpower, and as a result it is much more of a niche game -- not just because it is sci-fi, but because it is damned complex, hard to learn and as a result less accessible than most games are. At its best, EVE is completely engrossing, involving its players in virtual wars of their own making, allowing people to exercise real world skills i(planning, strategy, leadership, diplomacy, etc.) n a virtual environment -- and for a certain personality type, this becomes very addictive in itself because the alternative reality becomes MORE real -- it becomes a real second life for a lot of people who play EVE. Sure, EVE's skill system allows one to train offline and this is casual-friendly, but most of the advanced players in EVE play anything other than casually and pour a great amount of their energy, intellect, drive and passion into their virtual lives in the EVE cluster. It's that aspect of it that I think is off-putting to many. I played EVE for almost three years (not counting breaks) and at times I found it completely engrossing. At other times, I just felt like I wanted something that was more relaxing, more of a game, and less of a virtual life. The politics of EVE can be very unforgiving ... enemies are made and remain enemies for years, scheming and backstabbing is constant, war and reprisal -- it's at once very exciting and yet also very stressful, consuming and draining. A lot of people don't want that in a pasttime for the long term. Eventually I was one of them. While I do not knock EVE, because I had tremendous fun playing the game on all levels, after a time I came to a point in my life where I wanted more of a "game" and less of a "virtual life", and so I quit EVE for good.
WoW is more of a "game". Sure you can RP in WoW (and I do that as well), but it's light-hearted, the emphasis is on fun and entertainment, on relaxation. Can WoW be super-stressful if you are running raid instances all the time? Sure it can, but that's not most of the game, and it isn't the way most of the players play WoW. I find it interesting that some other posters have concluded that they couldn't see themselves playing a game like WoW as an older gamer, but for me (pushing 40, heh), it's been exactly the opposite. As I have gotten older and more busy in other areas of life, I really don't have the time to lead a virtual life like EVE offers -- my one real life is consuming enough -- but I do have the time for a few hours of progress in WoW on this or that character, and the fun camaraderie of others who are similarly minded in the guilds I belong to. It's more light-hearted fun, more relaxing, and more of what I am looking for in a game when I come home from an already very mentally draining professional day.
I think people should just realize that EVE and WoW are just two fantastic games, but designed for people who are looking for different things, regardless of their ages or situation in life.
This should be stickied, mate
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
My cool sig: Turrets suck.
I like eve, its a great game.. but.. I takes too much time to get stuff done. It's great to have a huge universe. It's bad it takes forever. I want a game not a 2nd job. What's this? manual is faster than auto pilot? Yay! I can sit there for 60 mins manualing gate jumping! Korean style grinding is more fun that that. Now people don't have to mine but at the beginning.. we all had to mine, even the pirates minned. Pvp was fun if I could get to it. But it takes so long to get anywere. As for pvp I've had more lots more fun in L2 castle seiges.
Eve online is the only game I've ever played while reading a book.
Eve is great but other games let me get to the fun faster.
EVE would be a great game if it didn't use point and click controls but went for direct control instead.
EVE would be a great game if it didn't use point and click controls but went for direct control instead.
Actually, it would be a terrible game - twitch flight controls do not work when you have a 300 ping. Personally, I think Jackcolt has no idea what he's talking about, but thats just me sharing my opinion too.
EVE would be a great game if it didn't use point and click controls but went for direct control instead.
Actually, it would be a terrible game - twitch flight controls do not work when you have a 300 ping. Personally, I think Jackcolt has no idea what he's talking about, but thats just me sharing my opinion too. With good network code, a ping of 300 would not be an issue, especially if the game still used aimed turrets. I personally feel EVE could have been so much more with direct control. I'm still waiting for a space MMO that utilizes direct control, but manages to keep all the Elite and beyond elements that EVE incorporates into the game so successfully.
Besides that is the fact that all of the ships in EVE are capital sized vessels. As I've said before. Have you ever seen two 747's dogfighting? NO. They why would you expect ships that are at least 10x the size of them to do it, whether they're in space or not. The control scheme for EVE is appropriate to the type of game it is and it works perfectly fine.
Of course the same can be said about games like wow or guildwars exept ill have a fantasy screensaver with chat features.
Nice signiture picture tho
This is EVE
Get the free trial and try it you will see more than that
Get the free trial and try it you will see more than that
If you make one too and show me some wonders of the EvE.
I love how you show soo much flashy footage and then you show like a 3 second still shot of what the pvp is ACTUALLY like and then skip right past it.
PvP is like this...
You click on a text pull down with a list of ships... you then right click the ship you want to attack and click set orbit at x-distance... you then click ur weapons to activate them so that they automatically fire for you. Then you wait to see if you win. Chances are you will never see the enemy ship on ur screen the whole battle... u will be zoomed all the way out till he is just a dot and so is your ship. I guess you could zoom in on ur ship when he shoots back and u might see something like the explosion from the video but its not like you have any control over it anyway.
What your describing could be level 1 missions maybe but other then that I would say you never went out of empire with out being podded real quick.