This proves beyond ANY shadow of doubt that Lucas Arts/LEC and $OE are living in some kind of a dream world. They think they have improved the game. WTF???? I mean really WTF???? Is 350K people that left the game just our imagination? Are the memories of how PACKED AH, Bestine, Theed, Cnet, the Dantooine Mining Outpost, (and that is just a few), were with people just our imaginations? These people are sick ... they are truly fucked up in their minds to believe they have improved the game. Granted there is always going to be 10% that will like what 90 % of the people hate. But to me that is NOT an improvement. Chriscao is on some very serious drugs. I hope LA is happy. They just lost a devoted SW fan. No longer will I buy or see anything that is related to SW or to LA. They have just been placed in the same boat as $OE. I will make it my lifes mission to run down LA/LEC, SONY, and $OE to everyone I know and anyone that will listen. I guarantee I will cost them more in lost revenue than the $1,300 I spent playing SWG. There is an old saying ... what goes around comes around. BTW .. I really liked the part ... "tell us what you think". They have NEVER listened to the playerbase ... I seriously doubt they will start now.
Do you honestly think that a fucking CORPORATION would admit to their mistakes? They are there to promote their game, they work for the company, and if they shit-talk the game they will be FIRED. They are paid well so I am pretty sure they do not want to lose their jobs. The devs do know what they did, but they also know that if they go out and straight up tell the playerbase that the game sucks their job would go out the window.
SONY is a corporation, and the SWG devs all work for that corporation. Do you think that some of the devs were feeling a bit uneasy while implementing the NGE? Of course, but if they just up and said how they felt about it their asses would be fired. Smedly doesn't care if they lose a dev, he can hire another who will listen. As Darth said, it was a business decision, the devs couldn't stop Smedly and Smedly knew that.
So go back and re-read your post. They do NOT believe they improved the game, an idiot could read the numbers, They DO however know that if they talk about the game like that on the public forums then they are turning away potential customers and will lose their job. They all had the same memories we did, but when they get an order from the boss they have to fulfill that order even if it means sacrificing a working system. ChrisCao is just doing his job, promote the game and work on it. The devs do have control over the system, but when Smedly issues an order such as the NGE, they know that:
1) He doesn't give a flying fuck about the game, he wants his order carried out. And 2:
2) Even if all of them speak out against it and say how good the game is, Smedly would not give a shit. He cares about the money, and if he thought the new system would make money, he would fire them one by one until the rest agree and just hire fresh meat.
In closing, the devs did MAKE the system, and I am sure a few thought that it could turn out well. But they had no vote on whether to implement it or not, it was an order from the boss, and the boss thought it to be a good idea. The devs MAY look like they would have buttsex with the game in its current state, but that it just their work-face. I am sure they have some of the same feelings about the game as you do, probably a bit less radical though. The game needs new direction, and hopefully that is what it will get. I have not heard or seen much of Blixtev, he seems to be more of a lurker on the forums, but anything is better than "Dark Lord" Helios, who was like the Saddam Hussein of SWG. I do like however that even though they said that Blixtev and Helios were NOT a part of the NGE changes, that they mentioned them as "tumultous" and that "they won't happen again" (even if this may be a bullshit quote) indicating that they had a negative effect on the playerbase.
Seriously there is no point to bash him for this. There is no point of bashing them anymore. This game is dead, and nobody in their developement team is sending signals that it is not. Now is the point if your playing to say do I want to ride this game to the sunset, or would I rather save some money. Now if your there to throw tantrums you really are wasteing money. Now if you come to this forum to throw tantrums you are wasteing your time. We all understand just how rotten the staff was, and we understand the game is all but over. You can celebrate now if that is what your after. Personally I find it quite sad. I know the game had to die, because of what the NGE represented. Unfortunately some will take the demise as a sign that the vision behind the original game was wrong. Rather then bad management all around being the cause. Would you blame a fine sports car for erupting into flames even though the idiot driver was washing it with gasoline? Some will blame the concept however. Ignoreing the fact that sandbox play is a major component of series like GTA. The sandbox sells incompetent management does not.
Indeed ... the game as it exists now is a kludge layered onto a kludge layered onto a kludge ... one half-implemented solution to problems after another. A massive influx of resources probably couldn't straighten out the mess they've made, and this project is NEVER going to get a massive influx of resources again, it's been on low-maintenance mode since the NGE killed off any hope of it ever being a significant revenue producer.
100% agree that it is already a classic case study on destroying a product through mismanagement. It shouldn't be taught at game design courses, but in business management courses. Because it's the "suits" that ravaged every bit of potential SWG ever had, not the folks writing the code.
Some will blame the concept however. Ignoreing the fact that sandbox play is a major component of series like GTA. The sandbox sells incompetent management does not.
You're right about one thing. Quality sells. But GTA is not a sandbox. It's made to look like one, but it's not.
Key features that make GTA for such an apealing piece:
- Fluid transitions: You don't spawn a car, you don't apear behind the wheel. You open the door, sit, and drive away. If you crash the car, it doesn't explode and you force run for another 50m before rubber-banding back, but you're kicked out. That's a powerful illusion GTA offers.
- Causality: Aim the car, jump out, watch it crash over the fence into a group of unsuspecting bypassers.
- Familiar environment. When you see a police car, you know you can turn on the lights. You know that, since you've seen police cars do that. When you see an interplanetary drop ship, you don't know what it does, how it behaves or how it fulfils it's purpose
The reason it's not a sandbox:
- It's completely pre-scripted. Every script is attached to an exact trigger
- No persistent world. You cannot change anything. You cannot affect anything unless it was scripted. You cannot drop something then go back to pick it up.
- No passive events. You cannot observe an unpredicted event. Certain factions hate each other. That is it. A true sandbox would have entities that would be affecting the world (and be affected by it). People in cars actually driving between destinations based on their needs, and player would be just a part of that, not the reason for world's existance. While apparently a minimal change, it does differentiate sandbox games from linear. MMOs get this factor from players (hence the apeal), where you can stumble upon someone doing something unexpected, and partake in that.
But above all, GTA offers an extremly fluid and satisfying excecution. That is what made it such an outstanding game.
SWG, great concept. I was one of the Beta testers (although many will say the game continues in Beta still...). There were a lot of great things about the game, and I'm sure there are still some great things to be found. Of course, the camraderie that made the game worthwhile for me dwindled as the people left in droves...the replacements never lasted long or played the same way.
It is impossible to blame the shortcomings of the game on one person. I know many of my suggestions through Beta and TC were not fully implemented. Whether they were considered and dismissed or never read, I'll never know.
Every major upgrade and revamp (and I mean EVERY) was met with resistance by a large number of people. How SOE made the decisions they did, I'll never know. I do know that after years of playing and testing the game, I gave the account away. Perhaps it is still being used today....
In short, I would say the difficulties of SWG should probably not be held against any individual, or even against LucsArts. (No, I'm not Helios or Big George!) Keep looking for a good game, let me know when you find it!
I would recommend this wikipedia entry for discussion as to what defines a sandbox game. No offense but the definition given is so restrictive that only a mmorpg can fill it. Yet I have heard multiple sources refer to GTA in the sense of a sandbox. Furter more many sources claim that is what escalates GTA above other fair that it left the rails, and engages sandbox play. You can do what you want how you want with no long term ramifications.
he works for ultima online now, poor UO community...
someone warn the community, please... anyone got access to the Ultima Online boards to post there ?
Can you imagine???? You are a Dev and management just hires this guy named Helios who was the brains behind the NGE at $OE which is what brought SWG down. Can you imagine how all the other Devs feel over there????? Imagine you spent years working on UO and management hires this fool that almost single handedly destroyed SWG!!!!!!!
Doesn't management KNOW that their community/playerbase KNOWS all to well who and what Helios is?
Do you honestly think that a fucking CORPORATION would admit to their mistakes? They are there to promote their game, they work for the company, and if they shit-talk the game they will be FIRED. They are paid well so I am pretty sure they do not want to lose their jobs. The devs do know what they did, but they also know that if they go out and straight up tell the playerbase that the game sucks their job would go out the window. Publically speaking of course you toe the line. As a software developer your responsible to advise management of problems. You are there to advise them on responsible courses of action. Just stating feesibility as was used as a cop out by the current and former team that brought the CU and NGE is weak and lame and shows no personal back bone. We cannot be fully privy to how these systems went down, but its hard to argue against public outcry that the CU and NGE where not ready for release among testers and the current game community. Responsible dev's and management wouldn't have pushed it out with such disdain among current customers. SONY is a corporation, and the SWG devs all work for that corporation. Do you think that some of the devs were feeling a bit uneasy while implementing the NGE? Of course, but if they just up and said how they felt about it their asses would be fired. Smedly doesn't care if they lose a dev, he can hire another who will listen. As Darth said, it was a business decision, the devs couldn't stop Smedly and Smedly knew that. That is a very ignorant position to assume SOE management took. I think they where sold by the developers the NGE as total game improvement. I am sure SOE wanted SWG to be more successful and they collaborated on the NGE to make a better gaming experience. However, the devs over promised and under delivered. Any uneasiness the devs felt was because developers where writing checks they couldn't cash in terms of the realistic time and resources the NGE would cost to do right. However, when the outcry against the NGE and the CU was the loudest and players where outright revolting who stepped up from SOE and who was responsible to do so? We turned to the Devs who apparently lacked the will to do it. We turned to Smedley who asked for our patience. We turned to LA who apparently outright didn't seem to care. Blame the culture where no one in a corporation is responsible for what they produce. It isnt a speaking out issue as much as no one acts accountable even if they are. So go back and re-read your post. They do NOT believe they improved the game, an idiot could read the numbers, They DO however know that if they talk about the game like that on the public forums then they are turning away potential customers and will lose their job. They all had the same memories we did, but when they get an order from the boss they have to fulfill that order even if it means sacrificing a working system. ChrisCao is just doing his job, promote the game and work on it. The devs do have control over the system, but when Smedly issues an order such as the NGE, they know that: Chris is not doing his job. Developers of games are there to make a fun game. He has to work within the confines of his budget. As a lead developer his taking directives from Management on "in-game" systems is absurd. I highly doubt John Smedley walked into anyones office and demanded they produce the NGE from a napkin scribble he came up with drunk off his ass at the bar the previous night. Here is what likely occurred (especially given statements out of devs post NGE). Smedley asked what could be done to improve swg numbers and fun factors. He asked for proposals. Someone demo'd the NGE. Smedley asked if it could be done. Some dev made rediculous promises about the NGE being a savior system. Smedley being totally ignorant on reality bought into the sales pitch and the developers below the lead developer where ordered by the developers the NGE was to begin. If any developer didn't think the NGE was a good idea they where responsible to report that to there boss and the lead devs should have considered that. People act as if Smedley is directing games development personally. That is not even remotely close to his job as CEO of SOE. That is the developers job and letting them off the hook for the NGE and blaming Smedley is kind of silly. Sure he takes ultimate responsibility and should have freaking known better about the CU and NGE it isn't his code that sucks. When customers bitched and moaned to him in writing, in blogs and in the forums he should have done the responsible corporate thing and forced his staff to fix it. He didn't and his board should ask why. 1) He doesn't give a flying fuck about the game, he wants his order carried out. And 2: Not true. He cares and his orders where carried out. Try to make the NGE work. That was a huge error on his part in believing his development staff after the NGE was already considered by him to be basically a broken game. Why he trusted that dev staff is beyond my understanding. 2) Even if all of them speak out against it and say how good the game is, Smedly would not give a shit. He cares about the money, and if he thought the new system would make money, he would fire them one by one until the rest agree and just hire fresh meat. In closing, the devs did MAKE the system, and I am sure a few thought that it could turn out well. But they had no vote on whether to implement it or not, it was an order from the boss, and the boss thought it to be a good idea. The devs MAY look like they would have buttsex with the game in its current state, but that it just their work-face. I am sure they have some of the same feelings about the game as you do, probably a bit less radical though. The game needs new direction, and hopefully that is what it will get. I have not heard or seen much of Blixtev, he seems to be more of a lurker on the forums, but anything is better than "Dark Lord" Helios, who was like the Saddam Hussein of SWG. I do like however that even though they said that Blixtev and Helios were NOT a part of the NGE changes, that they mentioned them as "tumultous" and that "they won't happen again" (even if this may be a bullshit quote) indicating that they had a negative effect on the playerbase.
Devs had no vote? They wrote and coded the system. The said it was done when it wasn't. They proposed the NGE and tested it to begin with. They over sold the features and under sold the cost and time it would take to do the NGE. Smedley bought it.
Helios, Blixtev, ChrisCao, anyone who worked on the NGE is just as responsible as Smedley since they actually bore responsiblity of making and compiling the code. That is why software developers as such a pain in the ass. Because they have to deliver.
he works for ultima online now, poor UO community...
someone warn the community, please... anyone got access to the Ultima Online boards to post there ?
Can you imagine???? You are a Dev and management just hires this guy named Helios who was the brains behind the NGE at $OE which is what brought SWG down. Can you imagine how all the other Devs feel over there????? Imagine you spent years working on UO and management hires this fool that almost single handedly destroyed SWG!!!!!!!
Doesn't management KNOW that their community/playerbase KNOWS all to well who and what Helios is?
Management has the right to mismanage.
Well, considering it's well known that the "Helios is at UO" rumor was based on someone posting erroneous info without LOOKING at the info, there is another point to consider. Helios was a developer for UO, and left there to work at SOE. Considering he was the one responsible for the AoS catastrophy of UO, SOE is the one that should have seen red flags and not hired the moron in the first place. Helios is the reason the NGE was never developed into something, because he cared about nothing and noone unless it or they were PvP related. Just as when he worked on UO, considering that AoS was a PvP expansion and fucked UO up more than even Trammel did.
I gladly instruct you to go to this website. It was written by a guy who was invited to go to an Influencers Summit by the developers. I just read it today and it sheds some light on how the developers act off of the forums. I highly suggest you read it.
To Haxjoo: http://swg.blindzebra.com/summit-debrief.asp I gladly instruct you to go to this website. It was written by a guy who was invited to go to an Influencers Summit by the developers. I just read it today and it sheds some light on how the developers act off of the forums. I highly suggest you read it.
That shows that SOE folks can blow smoke up people's asses, lie, and deflect blame to thier faces. Saying "We have these great plans but we're not able to talk about them1" and "LEC wouldn't let us do these wonderful things!" is nothing more than empty words. SOE destroyed the game and are now trying to pass the buck off on LucasArts because it didn't work out anywhere near how they thought it would.
They would have ditched the NGE if they weren't still convinced that it made the game better (and that it is the customers' fault for not appreciating the changes). The person who wrote that drivel is either 'star struck' or a paid employee of SOE. It comes across like a diary of a teenage girl who just met the boy band they like.
I gladly instruct you to go to this website. It was written by a guy who was invited to go to an Influencers Summit by the developers. I just read it today and it sheds some light on how the developers act off of the forums. I highly suggest you read it.
That shows that SOE folks can blow smoke up people's asses, lie, and deflect blame to thier faces. Saying "We have these great plans but we're not able to talk about them1" and "LEC wouldn't let us do these wonderful things!" is nothing more than empty words. SOE destroyed the game and are now trying to pass the buck off on LucasArts because it didn't work out anywhere near how they thought it would.
They would have ditched the NGE if they weren't still convinced that it made the game better (and that it is the customers' fault for not appreciating the changes). The person who wrote that drivel is either 'star struck' or a paid employee of SOE.It comes across like a diary of a teenage girl who just met the boy band they like.
LMAO
and QFE
Exactly what I thought when I read it. I cant believe how easily some people forget that SOE does this "blow-smoke-up-the-customers-asses" routine every 6 months or so, dunno why this summit would be any different. I remember the fanboys coming home from the last summits, telling us how "they really listened this time, they so nice, they promise things will get better..." blah blah blah, sorry to burst anyones bubble, but its bullshit, dished out by the masters of bullshitting their customers to keep subs from dropping, the infamous SOE. (que the thunder/lightning and spooky music)
And now SOE is trying to pass the NGE-buck to LA, lol, please. The NGE was conceived by and pushed forward by SOE, not LA. SOE is the developer and publisher of SWG, not LA. SOE has even outright told us that they were infact the ones behind the NGE. So all this "ooo, the heavy hand of evil LA doomed us all..." is just people being ignorant. Is LA to blame for approving the NGE, after SOE pitched it to them as the best thing since sliced bread? Sure they are. But not nearly as guilty as the dumb asses who actually developed and pushed it forward from concept to live, and thatd be SOE.
Looks like SOE knows they're not getting any future SW title from LA at this point, and have decided to protect their own asses from here on out, starting with their current routine of "poor us at lil ol' SOE, big bad LA forced us to ruin SWG, we had no say in that at all, we promise, we'd never do something like that again...um, hey, while your here, want to check out some of our other games?"
"Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?"
To Haxjoo: http://swg.blindzebra.com/summit-debrief.asp I gladly instruct you to go to this website. It was written by a guy who was invited to go to an Influencers Summit by the developers. I just read it today and it sheds some light on how the developers act off of the forums. I highly suggest you read it.
That shows that SOE folks can blow smoke up people's asses, lie, and deflect blame to thier faces. Saying "We have these great plans but we're not able to talk about them1" and "LEC wouldn't let us do these wonderful things!" is nothing more than empty words. SOE destroyed the game and are now trying to pass the buck off on LucasArts because it didn't work out anywhere near how they thought it would.
They would have ditched the NGE if they weren't still convinced that it made the game better (and that it is the customers' fault for not appreciating the changes). The person who wrote that drivel is either 'star struck' or a paid employee of SOE.It comes across like a diary of a teenage girl who just met the boy band they like.
LMAO
and QFE
Exactly what I thought when I read it. I cant believe how easily some people forget that SOE does this "blow-smoke-up-the-customers-asses" routine every 6 months or so, dunno why this summit would be any different. I remember the fanboys coming home from the last summits, telling us how "they really listened this time, they so nice, they promise things will get better..." blah blah blah, sorry to burst anyones bubble, but its bullshit, dished out by the masters of bullshitting their customers to keep subs from dropping, the infamous SOE. (que the thunder/lightning and spooky music)
And now SOE is trying to pass the NGE-buck to LA, lol, please. The NGE was conceived by and pushed forward by SOE, not LA. SOE is the developer and publisher of SWG, not LA. SOE has even outright told us that they were infact the ones behind the NGE. So all this "ooo, the heavy hand of evil LA doomed us all..." is just people being ignorant. Is LA to blame for approving the NGE, after SOE pitched it to them as the best thing since sliced bread? Sure they are. But not nearly as guilty as the dumb asses who actually developed and pushed it forward from concept to live, and thatd be SOE.
Looks like SOE knows they're not getting any future SW title from LA at this point, and have decided to protect their own asses from here on out, starting with their current routine of "poor us at lil ol' SOE, big bad LA forced us to ruin SWG, we had no say in that at all, we promise, we'd never do something like that again...um, hey, while your here, want to check out some of our other games?"
I'd like to give those last 2 posts a big QFE.
And to add.. those who went to the summits were already inclined to believe the $OE fools talking to them. They were willing to invest their time and money to go, of course they'd be more positive.
Those summits are also Valhalla for rabid fanbois. A developer petting zoo filled with sicopants who want nothing but to cross the line between kissing virtual ass and real ass.
So at worst, the audience is slightly skeptical.. to at best, borderline dev stalkers... like the writer of that linked article.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
he works for ultima online now, poor UO community...
someone warn the community, please... anyone got access to the Ultima Online boards to post there ?
Someone should warn the UO community about this... if they dont know already. I sense a NGE hitting UO in its future. I fear the death to UO is near. :(In a way I hope Uo does die. i hope EA loses it's only MMo and I hope EA is bought out or at least taken over. UO isn't UO anymore. I hate EA just as much as you guys hate SOE =DUO isn't EA's only MMO and they are going to get bought out or taken over. They are a behometh. In the Gaming world they are equals to Blizzard and SOE in size. Also, they just aquired Mythic to run their MMO division. Which means they also aquired Dark Age of Camelot and the upcoming Warhammer Online. So EA isn't going away in the MMO field anytime soon.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
The demise of SWG has more to do with PS3. Then Lucasarts or you and me. Where have all the SWG profits went. Towards that console they were spent. Costs were cut to make it through. The SOE players hadn't a clue. They hid the truth with dance and song. Some fools still buy it strong. So it is that they will not see. Their game was sacraficed for the almighty PS3. Thankfully we all see. That console will be desroyed by the modest Wii. SOE will come back to those they neglected. Their cries for patronage will be rejected. So in the end they will know. That treachery was not the way to go. The angry will laugh, and SOE will sigh. The SWG player still with no game will silently cry.
People blameing lucasarts ignore the most fundamental shift in SOE. SOE moved its focus from its key demographic of PC players towards console players. They syphoned off as much money as possible from their current business to build into a new market. The changes to SWG have less to do with makeing that game more profitable, and makeing it less expensive to run with a plus that it might be console portable. No serious effort could have been put into SWG after the NGE for this reason. They took a gamble not on what most people think. They were not betting on capturing WoWs market. They were betting on catching the console market which honestly could be alot larger, and with cross platform performance they could have a chance of haveing double the numbers of subscribers WoW has.
I think most here suspect that the PS3 has a dismal future. The console has more problems that a psychotic off of medication. Meanwhile it faces two strong competitors. Both in far better shape then SONY is. Both Nintendo, and Microsoft are makeing money from their consoles. SOE has hurt its online community in a effort to help its parent company take a lead in the console market. I highly doubt that Microsoft, and Nintendo for that matter are going to let SOEs PC gameing sit behind the lines generateing revenue. They have Sony on the ropes as it is at this moment. They both have momentum, and the PS3 is rideing a wave of bad press. I highly doubt that they are going to let SOE just be. They entered into the console war, and that puts them on center stage. Both Microsoft, and Nintendo have everything to gain by going after SOE, and its devaluated market share in the MMORPG arena.
The real fun will begin when SOE has to compete with console rivals in the MMORPG marketplace. Both rivals flush with cash, and success. Then SOE will have to try to recover from its self inflicted wounds. I think the upcomeing year is going to be alot of fun. Smedley may well regret not placeing his effort into fewer games rather then trying to be the discount seller of online gameing. None of the current or future SOE games look like they could stand up to another onslaught especially from two console power houses flush with money.
To Haxjoo: http://swg.blindzebra.com/summit-debrief.asp I gladly instruct you to go to this website. It was written by a guy who was invited to go to an Influencers Summit by the developers. I just read it today and it sheds some light on how the developers act off of the forums. I highly suggest you read it.
Please help me contact the author of that link. I have an incredible real-estate deal, only for him!!!
To Haxjoo: http://swg.blindzebra.com/summit-debrief.asp I gladly instruct you to go to this website. It was written by a guy who was invited to go to an Influencers Summit by the developers. I just read it today and it sheds some light on how the developers act off of the forums. I highly suggest you read it.
That shows that SOE folks can blow smoke up people's asses, lie, and deflect blame to thier faces. Saying "We have these great plans but we're not able to talk about them1" and "LEC wouldn't let us do these wonderful things!" is nothing more than empty words. SOE destroyed the game and are now trying to pass the buck off on LucasArts because it didn't work out anywhere near how they thought it would.
They would have ditched the NGE if they weren't still convinced that it made the game better (and that it is the customers' fault for not appreciating the changes). The person who wrote that drivel is either 'star struck' or a paid employee of SOE.It comes across like a diary of a teenage girl who just met the boy band they like.
LMAO
and QFE
Exactly what I thought when I read it. I cant believe how easily some people forget that SOE does this "blow-smoke-up-the-customers-asses" routine every 6 months or so, dunno why this summit would be any different. I remember the fanboys coming home from the last summits, telling us how "they really listened this time, they so nice, they promise things will get better..." blah blah blah, sorry to burst anyones bubble, but its bullshit, dished out by the masters of bullshitting their customers to keep subs from dropping, the infamous SOE. (que the thunder/lightning and spooky music)
And now SOE is trying to pass the NGE-buck to LA, lol, please. The NGE was conceived by and pushed forward by SOE, not LA. SOE is the developer and publisher of SWG, not LA. SOE has even outright told us that they were infact the ones behind the NGE. So all this "ooo, the heavy hand of evil LA doomed us all..." is just people being ignorant. Is LA to blame for approving the NGE, after SOE pitched it to them as the best thing since sliced bread? Sure they are. But not nearly as guilty as the dumb asses who actually developed and pushed it forward from concept to live, and thatd be SOE.
Looks like SOE knows they're not getting any future SW title from LA at this point, and have decided to protect their own asses from here on out, starting with their current routine of "poor us at lil ol' SOE, big bad LA forced us to ruin SWG, we had no say in that at all, we promise, we'd never do something like that again...um, hey, while your here, want to check out some of our other games?"
Well, for now it doesn't even matter who made the NGE or what. It is staying and the only thing players can do now is try to improve it or not play it at all. If you don't like the game, don't play, but seriously get over it. The NGE is over a year old, and you guys are still sitting here flaming everything I have posted to you. You think that you have "revealed $oe's dirty greedy side to the people" and that you are superior to everyone who plays the game. Guess what. You are not. You seriously don't even criticize the game any more, you go straight for the company. The NGE is staying, so either get over it, or play it and enjoy it. There is no in between. I can't BELIEVE some people are still bitter about it. It is over a year old and you guys still sit here and post on it, even though you all don't even play the game, you just lurk the fucking forums. I don't know about you, but I am over the fact that the NGE is here, and I enjoy playing the game. I think you should figure out which side you are on so you can move on and have fun in other games. And for gods sake, it is fucking SOE not $OE. They are a company that makes money, oooohhh big deal! "I think I am going to put a dollar sign in front of the OE in SOE to symbolize that I am cool and SOE takes money from its players!". Well of course they do, YOU pay for it. Jesus fucking Christ.
To Haxjoo: http://swg.blindzebra.com/summit-debrief.asp I gladly instruct you to go to this website. It was written by a guy who was invited to go to an Influencers Summit by the developers. I just read it today and it sheds some light on how the developers act off of the forums. I highly suggest you read it.
That shows that SOE folks can blow smoke up people's asses, lie, and deflect blame to thier faces. Saying "We have these great plans but we're not able to talk about them1" and "LEC wouldn't let us do these wonderful things!" is nothing more than empty words. SOE destroyed the game and are now trying to pass the buck off on LucasArts because it didn't work out anywhere near how they thought it would.
They would have ditched the NGE if they weren't still convinced that it made the game better (and that it is the customers' fault for not appreciating the changes). The person who wrote that drivel is either 'star struck' or a paid employee of SOE.It comes across like a diary of a teenage girl who just met the boy band they like.
LMAO
and QFE
Exactly what I thought when I read it. I cant believe how easily some people forget that SOE does this "blow-smoke-up-the-customers-asses" routine every 6 months or so, dunno why this summit would be any different. I remember the fanboys coming home from the last summits, telling us how "they really listened this time, they so nice, they promise things will get better..." blah blah blah, sorry to burst anyones bubble, but its bullshit, dished out by the masters of bullshitting their customers to keep subs from dropping, the infamous SOE. (que the thunder/lightning and spooky music)
And now SOE is trying to pass the NGE-buck to LA, lol, please. The NGE was conceived by and pushed forward by SOE, not LA. SOE is the developer and publisher of SWG, not LA. SOE has even outright told us that they were infact the ones behind the NGE. So all this "ooo, the heavy hand of evil LA doomed us all..." is just people being ignorant. Is LA to blame for approving the NGE, after SOE pitched it to them as the best thing since sliced bread? Sure they are. But not nearly as guilty as the dumb asses who actually developed and pushed it forward from concept to live, and thatd be SOE.
Looks like SOE knows they're not getting any future SW title from LA at this point, and have decided to protect their own asses from here on out, starting with their current routine of "poor us at lil ol' SOE, big bad LA forced us to ruin SWG, we had no say in that at all, we promise, we'd never do something like that again...um, hey, while your here, want to check out some of our other games?"
Well, for now it doesn't even matter who made the NGE or what. It is staying and the only thing players can do now is try to improve it or not play it at all. If you don't like the game, don't play, but seriously get over it. The NGE is over a year old, and you guys are still sitting here flaming everything I have posted to you. You think that you have "revealed $oe's dirty greedy side to the people" and that you are superior to everyone who plays the game. Guess what. You are not. You seriously don't even criticize the game any more, you go straight for the company. The NGE is staying, so either get over it, or play it and enjoy it. There is no in between. I can't BELIEVE some people are still bitter about it. It is over a year old and you guys still sit here and post on it, even though you all don't even play the game, you just lurk the fucking forums. I don't know about you, but I am over the fact that the NGE is here, and I enjoy playing the game. I think you should figure out which side you are on so you can move on and have fun in other games. And for gods sake, it is fucking SOE not $OE. They are a company that makes money, oooohhh big deal! "I think I am going to put a dollar sign in front of the OE in SOE to symbolize that I am cool and SOE takes money from its players!". Well of course they do, YOU pay for it. Jesus fucking Christ.
You may want to look at the header for this forum .... Veteran Refuge.... A place for disgruntled former and current SWG players to talk about the game that WAS and the game that now is, ...
Hence why people will always voice their opinion on the game that WAS here.. You may not like it but you know you dont have to read it. It's your mouse clicker that clicks on that post even though the header you know is going to cause you to blow a vessel. People can whine about the game that used to be just like you can whine about the people that whine either way there is no way to stop it so might as well not get all worked up about it.
i take it everyone forgets that Lucas Arts is the company that contracted SOE to design & run the game. I can buy that the people at SOE don't like what was done or the way it happened. Do I forgive them? No.
Excellent point. LA isn't blameless. However, without knowing the terms of the contract I cannot sit here and shout LA should have stopped the NGE because I dont honestly know if they could have. I know for a fact SOE could have. So I pick on them. I cannot watch Attack of the Show since they gave that wessel from LA a virtual free pass on the NGE's glaring and obvious failures.
People like Nancy Mc who spout stupidity and get promoted bother the hell out of me and makes me wonder about the viability of any future star wars title.
I do not buy people at SOE dont like what was done or the way it happened. They admit they choose to push for the NGE. There is developer blog entries to prove it so. They sold it to LA. LA bought it hook line and sinker.
The demise of SWG has more to do with PS3. Then Lucasarts or you and me. Where have all the SWG profits went. Towards that console they were spent. Costs were cut to make it through. The SOE players hadn't a clue. They hid the truth with dance and song. Some fools still buy it strong. So it is that they will not see. Their game was sacraficed for the almighty PS3. Thankfully we all see. That console will be desroyed by the modest Wii. SOE will come back to those they neglected. Their cries for patronage will be rejected. So in the end they will know. That treachery was not the way to go. The angry will laugh, and SOE will sigh. The SWG player still with no game will silently cry. People blameing lucasarts ignore the most fundamental shift in SOE. SOE moved its focus from its key demographic of PC players towards console players. They syphoned off as much money as possible from their current business to build into a new market. The changes to SWG have less to do with makeing that game more profitable, and makeing it less expensive to run with a plus that it might be console portable. No serious effort could have been put into SWG after the NGE for this reason. They took a gamble not on what most people think. They were not betting on capturing WoWs market. They were betting on catching the console market which honestly could be alot larger, and with cross platform performance they could have a chance of haveing double the numbers of subscribers WoW has. I think most here suspect that the PS3 has a dismal future. The console has more problems that a psychotic off of medication. Meanwhile it faces two strong competitors. Both in far better shape then SONY is. Both Nintendo, and Microsoft are makeing money from their consoles. SOE has hurt its online community in a effort to help its parent company take a lead in the console market. I highly doubt that Microsoft, and Nintendo for that matter are going to let SOEs PC gameing sit behind the lines generateing revenue. They have Sony on the ropes as it is at this moment. They both have momentum, and the PS3 is rideing a wave of bad press. I highly doubt that they are going to let SOE just be. They entered into the console war, and that puts them on center stage. Both Microsoft, and Nintendo have everything to gain by going after SOE, and its devaluated market share in the MMORPG arena. The real fun will begin when SOE has to compete with console rivals in the MMORPG marketplace. Both rivals flush with cash, and success. Then SOE will have to try to recover from its self inflicted wounds. I think the upcomeing year is going to be alot of fun. Smedley may well regret not placeing his effort into fewer games rather then trying to be the discount seller of online gameing. None of the current or future SOE games look like they could stand up to another onslaught especially from two console power houses flush with money.
Jebus, eminem, where did you learn to WRITE???
That post is like...internet transmitted herpes or something.
I do not buy people at SOE dont like what was done or the way it happened. They admit they choose to push for the NGE. There is developer blog entries to prove it so. They sold it to LA. LA bought it hook line and sinker.
It's a big team. At one time, 70 people. That made for over 70 opinions about anything, at any given time.
That dev blog was mine, in reference to the combat interface. It was not in reference "the NGE", but the clicky combat system which I did - and still do - find to be more fun than than what SWG had at the time.
I very much disliked a combat system in which a guy ran up to his target, pressed a function key, saw particle effects, ate a sammich, pressed a function key, more particle effects, drank some wine, and otherwise played his particle-effect generating toolbar until the target turned into a corpse.
Otherwise, SOE as the developer developed, and LA as the published approved or didn't, as ever has been the case.
But anyway, many people have left now - on to other projects or on to other start-ups in town. Fairly common in the game industry for folk to move off of old projects and onto new ones.
Maybe the people who are left at SOE don't like what happened or how it went down? Why is that hard to buy?
I do not buy people at SOE dont like what was done or the way it happened. They admit they choose to push for the NGE. There is developer blog entries to prove it so. They sold it to LA. LA bought it hook line and sinker.
It's a big team. At one time, 70 people. That made for over 70 opinions about anything, at any given time.
That dev blog was mine, in reference to the combat interface. It was not in reference "the NGE", but the clicky combat system which I did - and still do - find to be more fun than than what SWG had at the time.
I very much disliked a combat system in which a guy ran up to his target, pressed a function key, saw particle effects, ate a sammich, pressed a function key, more particle effects, drank some wine, and otherwise played his particle-effect generating toolbar until the target turned into a corpse.
Otherwise, SOE as the developer developed, and LA as the published approved or didn't, as ever has been the case.
But anyway, many people have left now - on to other projects or on to other start-ups in town. Fairly common in the game industry for folk to move off of old projects and onto new ones.
Maybe the people who are left at SOE don't like what happened or how it went down? Why is that hard to buy?
That comment about making combat what you liked rather than what the paying customers liked is really the thing I dislike about you most Jeff. It just reeks of hubris and a total lack of concern for the players.
I do not buy people at SOE dont like what was done or the way it happened. They admit they choose to push for the NGE. There is developer blog entries to prove it so. They sold it to LA. LA bought it hook line and sinker.
It's a big team. At one time, 70 people. That made for over 70 opinions about anything, at any given time.
That dev blog was mine, in reference to the combat interface. It was not in reference "the NGE", but the clicky combat system which I did - and still do - find to be more fun than than what SWG had at the time.
I very much disliked a combat system in which a guy ran up to his target, pressed a function key, saw particle effects, ate a sammich, pressed a function key, more particle effects, drank some wine, and otherwise played his particle-effect generating toolbar until the target turned into a corpse.
Otherwise, SOE as the developer developed, and LA as the published approved or didn't, as ever has been the case.
But anyway, many people have left now - on to other projects or on to other start-ups in town. Fairly common in the game industry for folk to move off of old projects and onto new ones.
Maybe the people who are left at SOE don't like what happened or how it went down? Why is that hard to buy?
To be blunt: I think you guys assumed to much. Or worse, thought that is what needed to be fixed or worked on.
Funny, I don't remember seeing ANY posts about us complaing about the old UI, pre-CU .... I do remember however seeing "PLEASE FIX THIS: etc..."...
You guys seemed to work on what we liked and neglected what needed to be addressed most of the time.
But hey.... what do I know... I mean, the battle fields would have never have gone over if working right........ right??? lololol...
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
That comment about making combat what you liked rather than what the paying customers liked is really the thing I dislike about you most Jeff. It just reeks of hubris and a total lack of concern for the players. Just my 2 cents.
I know. You're right. The first post that I made here was to apologize for that post. Not to apologize for liking clicky combat more than CU, but for posting about any part of the NGE so gleefully, without thinking how that was just salting your wounds. People who didn't even care about the combat changes, creature handlers rather more upset their game was gone for example, were pissed to read that post, rightfully so. That was terribly insensitive.
As for the design itself: Lord Pall was the lead designer then, doing what game designers are supposed to do: design a game system within given parameters. That is, we're tasked with things, like "redesign combat". And given some direction, like "make it so these people will like it". Or sometimes, "those people."
Comments
Do you honestly think that a fucking CORPORATION would admit to their mistakes? They are there to promote their game, they work for the company, and if they shit-talk the game they will be FIRED. They are paid well so I am pretty sure they do not want to lose their jobs. The devs do know what they did, but they also know that if they go out and straight up tell the playerbase that the game sucks their job would go out the window.
SONY is a corporation, and the SWG devs all work for that corporation. Do you think that some of the devs were feeling a bit uneasy while implementing the NGE? Of course, but if they just up and said how they felt about it their asses would be fired. Smedly doesn't care if they lose a dev, he can hire another who will listen. As Darth said, it was a business decision, the devs couldn't stop Smedly and Smedly knew that.
So go back and re-read your post. They do NOT believe they improved the game, an idiot could read the numbers, They DO however know that if they talk about the game like that on the public forums then they are turning away potential customers and will lose their job. They all had the same memories we did, but when they get an order from the boss they have to fulfill that order even if it means sacrificing a working system. ChrisCao is just doing his job, promote the game and work on it. The devs do have control over the system, but when Smedly issues an order such as the NGE, they know that:
1) He doesn't give a flying fuck about the game, he wants his order carried out. And 2:
2) Even if all of them speak out against it and say how good the game is, Smedly would not give a shit. He cares about the money, and if he thought the new system would make money, he would fire them one by one until the rest agree and just hire fresh meat.
In closing, the devs did MAKE the system, and I am sure a few thought that it could turn out well. But they had no vote on whether to implement it or not, it was an order from the boss, and the boss thought it to be a good idea. The devs MAY look like they would have buttsex with the game in its current state, but that it just their work-face. I am sure they have some of the same feelings about the game as you do, probably a bit less radical though. The game needs new direction, and hopefully that is what it will get. I have not heard or seen much of Blixtev, he seems to be more of a lurker on the forums, but anything is better than "Dark Lord" Helios, who was like the Saddam Hussein of SWG. I do like however that even though they said that Blixtev and Helios were NOT a part of the NGE changes, that they mentioned them as "tumultous" and that "they won't happen again" (even if this may be a bullshit quote) indicating that they had a negative effect on the playerbase.
100% agree that it is already a classic case study on destroying a product through mismanagement. It shouldn't be taught at game design courses, but in business management courses. Because it's the "suits" that ravaged every bit of potential SWG ever had, not the folks writing the code.
Key features that make GTA for such an apealing piece:
- Fluid transitions: You don't spawn a car, you don't apear behind the wheel. You open the door, sit, and drive away. If you crash the car, it doesn't explode and you force run for another 50m before rubber-banding back, but you're kicked out. That's a powerful illusion GTA offers.
- Causality: Aim the car, jump out, watch it crash over the fence into a group of unsuspecting bypassers.
- Familiar environment. When you see a police car, you know you can turn on the lights. You know that, since you've seen police cars do that. When you see an interplanetary drop ship, you don't know what it does, how it behaves or how it fulfils it's purpose
The reason it's not a sandbox:
- It's completely pre-scripted. Every script is attached to an exact trigger
- No persistent world. You cannot change anything. You cannot affect anything unless it was scripted. You cannot drop something then go back to pick it up.
- No passive events. You cannot observe an unpredicted event. Certain factions hate each other. That is it. A true sandbox would have entities that would be affecting the world (and be affected by it). People in cars actually driving between destinations based on their needs, and player would be just a part of that, not the reason for world's existance. While apparently a minimal change, it does differentiate sandbox games from linear. MMOs get this factor from players (hence the apeal), where you can stumble upon someone doing something unexpected, and partake in that.
But above all, GTA offers an extremly fluid and satisfying excecution. That is what made it such an outstanding game.
SWG, great concept. I was one of the Beta testers (although many will say the game continues in Beta still...). There were a lot of great things about the game, and I'm sure there are still some great things to be found. Of course, the camraderie that made the game worthwhile for me dwindled as the people left in droves...the replacements never lasted long or played the same way.
It is impossible to blame the shortcomings of the game on one person. I know many of my suggestions through Beta and TC were not fully implemented. Whether they were considered and dismissed or never read, I'll never know.
Every major upgrade and revamp (and I mean EVERY) was met with resistance by a large number of people. How SOE made the decisions they did, I'll never know. I do know that after years of playing and testing the game, I gave the account away. Perhaps it is still being used today....
In short, I would say the difficulties of SWG should probably not be held against any individual, or even against LucsArts. (No, I'm not Helios or Big George!) Keep looking for a good game, let me know when you find it!
Love the Wookiee!
Seek
I would recommend this wikipedia entry for discussion as to what defines a sandbox game. No offense but the definition given is so restrictive that only a mmorpg can fill it. Yet I have heard multiple sources refer to GTA in the sense of a sandbox. Furter more many sources claim that is what escalates GTA above other fair that it left the rails, and engages sandbox play. You can do what you want how you want with no long term ramifications.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbox_(video_games)
he works for ultima online now, poor UO community...
someone warn the community, please... anyone got access to the Ultima Online boards to post there ?
Can you imagine???? You are a Dev and management just hires this guy named Helios who was the brains behind the NGE at $OE which is what brought SWG down. Can you imagine how all the other Devs feel over there????? Imagine you spent years working on UO and management hires this fool that almost single handedly destroyed SWG!!!!!!!
Doesn't management KNOW that their community/playerbase KNOWS all to well who and what Helios is?
Management has the right to mismanage.
Devs had no vote? They wrote and coded the system. The said it was done when it wasn't. They proposed the NGE and tested it to begin with. They over sold the features and under sold the cost and time it would take to do the NGE. Smedley bought it.
Helios, Blixtev, ChrisCao, anyone who worked on the NGE is just as responsible as Smedley since they actually bore responsiblity of making and compiling the code. That is why software developers as such a pain in the ass. Because they have to deliver.
he works for ultima online now, poor UO community...
someone warn the community, please... anyone got access to the Ultima Online boards to post there ?
Can you imagine???? You are a Dev and management just hires this guy named Helios who was the brains behind the NGE at $OE which is what brought SWG down. Can you imagine how all the other Devs feel over there????? Imagine you spent years working on UO and management hires this fool that almost single handedly destroyed SWG!!!!!!!
Doesn't management KNOW that their community/playerbase KNOWS all to well who and what Helios is?
Management has the right to mismanage.
Well, considering it's well known that the "Helios is at UO" rumor was based on someone posting erroneous info without LOOKING at the info, there is another point to consider. Helios was a developer for UO, and left there to work at SOE. Considering he was the one responsible for the AoS catastrophy of UO, SOE is the one that should have seen red flags and not hired the moron in the first place. Helios is the reason the NGE was never developed into something, because he cared about nothing and noone unless it or they were PvP related. Just as when he worked on UO, considering that AoS was a PvP expansion and fucked UO up more than even Trammel did.
To Haxjoo:
http://swg.blindzebra.com/summit-debrief.asp
I gladly instruct you to go to this website. It was written by a guy who was invited to go to an Influencers Summit by the developers. I just read it today and it sheds some light on how the developers act off of the forums. I highly suggest you read it.
They would have ditched the NGE if they weren't still convinced that it made the game better (and that it is the customers' fault for not appreciating the changes). The person who wrote that drivel is either 'star struck' or a paid employee of SOE. It comes across like a diary of a teenage girl who just met the boy band they like.
LMAO
and QFE
Exactly what I thought when I read it. I cant believe how easily some people forget that SOE does this "blow-smoke-up-the-customers-asses" routine every 6 months or so, dunno why this summit would be any different. I remember the fanboys coming home from the last summits, telling us how "they really listened this time, they so nice, they promise things will get better..." blah blah blah, sorry to burst anyones bubble, but its bullshit, dished out by the masters of bullshitting their customers to keep subs from dropping, the infamous SOE. (que the thunder/lightning and spooky music)
And now SOE is trying to pass the NGE-buck to LA, lol, please. The NGE was conceived by and pushed forward by SOE, not LA. SOE is the developer and publisher of SWG, not LA. SOE has even outright told us that they were infact the ones behind the NGE. So all this "ooo, the heavy hand of evil LA doomed us all..." is just people being ignorant. Is LA to blame for approving the NGE, after SOE pitched it to them as the best thing since sliced bread? Sure they are. But not nearly as guilty as the dumb asses who actually developed and pushed it forward from concept to live, and thatd be SOE.
Looks like SOE knows they're not getting any future SW title from LA at this point, and have decided to protect their own asses from here on out, starting with their current routine of "poor us at lil ol' SOE, big bad LA forced us to ruin SWG, we had no say in that at all, we promise, we'd never do something like that again...um, hey, while your here, want to check out some of our other games?"
"Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now.
We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?"
They would have ditched the NGE if they weren't still convinced that it made the game better (and that it is the customers' fault for not appreciating the changes). The person who wrote that drivel is either 'star struck' or a paid employee of SOE. It comes across like a diary of a teenage girl who just met the boy band they like.
LMAO
and QFE
Exactly what I thought when I read it. I cant believe how easily some people forget that SOE does this "blow-smoke-up-the-customers-asses" routine every 6 months or so, dunno why this summit would be any different. I remember the fanboys coming home from the last summits, telling us how "they really listened this time, they so nice, they promise things will get better..." blah blah blah, sorry to burst anyones bubble, but its bullshit, dished out by the masters of bullshitting their customers to keep subs from dropping, the infamous SOE. (que the thunder/lightning and spooky music)
And now SOE is trying to pass the NGE-buck to LA, lol, please. The NGE was conceived by and pushed forward by SOE, not LA. SOE is the developer and publisher of SWG, not LA. SOE has even outright told us that they were infact the ones behind the NGE. So all this "ooo, the heavy hand of evil LA doomed us all..." is just people being ignorant. Is LA to blame for approving the NGE, after SOE pitched it to them as the best thing since sliced bread? Sure they are. But not nearly as guilty as the dumb asses who actually developed and pushed it forward from concept to live, and thatd be SOE.
Looks like SOE knows they're not getting any future SW title from LA at this point, and have decided to protect their own asses from here on out, starting with their current routine of "poor us at lil ol' SOE, big bad LA forced us to ruin SWG, we had no say in that at all, we promise, we'd never do something like that again...um, hey, while your here, want to check out some of our other games?"
I'd like to give those last 2 posts a big QFE.
And to add.. those who went to the summits were already inclined to believe the $OE fools talking to them. They were willing to invest their time and money to go, of course they'd be more positive.
Those summits are also Valhalla for rabid fanbois. A developer petting zoo filled with sicopants who want nothing but to cross the line between kissing virtual ass and real ass.
So at worst, the audience is slightly skeptical.. to at best, borderline dev stalkers... like the writer of that linked article.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
he works for ultima online now, poor UO community...
someone warn the community, please... anyone got access to the Ultima Online boards to post there ?
Someone should warn the UO community about this... if they dont know already. I sense a NGE hitting UO in its future. I fear the death to UO is near. :(In a way I hope Uo does die. i hope EA loses it's only MMo and I hope EA is bought out or at least taken over. UO isn't UO anymore. I hate EA just as much as you guys hate SOE =DUO isn't EA's only MMO and they are going to get bought out or taken over. They are a behometh. In the Gaming world they are equals to Blizzard and SOE in size. Also, they just aquired Mythic to run their MMO division. Which means they also aquired Dark Age of Camelot and the upcoming Warhammer Online. So EA isn't going away in the MMO field anytime soon.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
The demise of SWG has more to do with PS3. Then Lucasarts or you and me. Where have all the SWG profits went. Towards that console they were spent. Costs were cut to make it through. The SOE players hadn't a clue. They hid the truth with dance and song. Some fools still buy it strong. So it is that they will not see. Their game was sacraficed for the almighty PS3. Thankfully we all see. That console will be desroyed by the modest Wii. SOE will come back to those they neglected. Their cries for patronage will be rejected. So in the end they will know. That treachery was not the way to go. The angry will laugh, and SOE will sigh. The SWG player still with no game will silently cry.
People blameing lucasarts ignore the most fundamental shift in SOE. SOE moved its focus from its key demographic of PC players towards console players. They syphoned off as much money as possible from their current business to build into a new market. The changes to SWG have less to do with makeing that game more profitable, and makeing it less expensive to run with a plus that it might be console portable. No serious effort could have been put into SWG after the NGE for this reason. They took a gamble not on what most people think. They were not betting on capturing WoWs market. They were betting on catching the console market which honestly could be alot larger, and with cross platform performance they could have a chance of haveing double the numbers of subscribers WoW has.
I think most here suspect that the PS3 has a dismal future. The console has more problems that a psychotic off of medication. Meanwhile it faces two strong competitors. Both in far better shape then SONY is. Both Nintendo, and Microsoft are makeing money from their consoles. SOE has hurt its online community in a effort to help its parent company take a lead in the console market. I highly doubt that Microsoft, and Nintendo for that matter are going to let SOEs PC gameing sit behind the lines generateing revenue. They have Sony on the ropes as it is at this moment. They both have momentum, and the PS3 is rideing a wave of bad press. I highly doubt that they are going to let SOE just be. They entered into the console war, and that puts them on center stage. Both Microsoft, and Nintendo have everything to gain by going after SOE, and its devaluated market share in the MMORPG arena.
The real fun will begin when SOE has to compete with console rivals in the MMORPG marketplace. Both rivals flush with cash, and success. Then SOE will have to try to recover from its self inflicted wounds. I think the upcomeing year is going to be alot of fun. Smedley may well regret not placeing his effort into fewer games rather then trying to be the discount seller of online gameing. None of the current or future SOE games look like they could stand up to another onslaught especially from two console power houses flush with money.
SWG Team Mtg.
They would have ditched the NGE if they weren't still convinced that it made the game better (and that it is the customers' fault for not appreciating the changes). The person who wrote that drivel is either 'star struck' or a paid employee of SOE. It comes across like a diary of a teenage girl who just met the boy band they like.
LMAO
and QFE
Exactly what I thought when I read it. I cant believe how easily some people forget that SOE does this "blow-smoke-up-the-customers-asses" routine every 6 months or so, dunno why this summit would be any different. I remember the fanboys coming home from the last summits, telling us how "they really listened this time, they so nice, they promise things will get better..." blah blah blah, sorry to burst anyones bubble, but its bullshit, dished out by the masters of bullshitting their customers to keep subs from dropping, the infamous SOE. (que the thunder/lightning and spooky music)
And now SOE is trying to pass the NGE-buck to LA, lol, please. The NGE was conceived by and pushed forward by SOE, not LA. SOE is the developer and publisher of SWG, not LA. SOE has even outright told us that they were infact the ones behind the NGE. So all this "ooo, the heavy hand of evil LA doomed us all..." is just people being ignorant. Is LA to blame for approving the NGE, after SOE pitched it to them as the best thing since sliced bread? Sure they are. But not nearly as guilty as the dumb asses who actually developed and pushed it forward from concept to live, and thatd be SOE.
Looks like SOE knows they're not getting any future SW title from LA at this point, and have decided to protect their own asses from here on out, starting with their current routine of "poor us at lil ol' SOE, big bad LA forced us to ruin SWG, we had no say in that at all, we promise, we'd never do something like that again...um, hey, while your here, want to check out some of our other games?"
Well, for now it doesn't even matter who made the NGE or what. It is staying and the only thing players can do now is try to improve it or not play it at all. If you don't like the game, don't play, but seriously get over it. The NGE is over a year old, and you guys are still sitting here flaming everything I have posted to you. You think that you have "revealed $oe's dirty greedy side to the people" and that you are superior to everyone who plays the game. Guess what. You are not. You seriously don't even criticize the game any more, you go straight for the company. The NGE is staying, so either get over it, or play it and enjoy it. There is no in between. I can't BELIEVE some people are still bitter about it. It is over a year old and you guys still sit here and post on it, even though you all don't even play the game, you just lurk the fucking forums. I don't know about you, but I am over the fact that the NGE is here, and I enjoy playing the game. I think you should figure out which side you are on so you can move on and have fun in other games. And for gods sake, it is fucking SOE not $OE. They are a company that makes money, oooohhh big deal! "I think I am going to put a dollar sign in front of the OE in SOE to symbolize that I am cool and SOE takes money from its players!". Well of course they do, YOU pay for it. Jesus fucking Christ.
They would have ditched the NGE if they weren't still convinced that it made the game better (and that it is the customers' fault for not appreciating the changes). The person who wrote that drivel is either 'star struck' or a paid employee of SOE. It comes across like a diary of a teenage girl who just met the boy band they like.
LMAO
and QFE
Exactly what I thought when I read it. I cant believe how easily some people forget that SOE does this "blow-smoke-up-the-customers-asses" routine every 6 months or so, dunno why this summit would be any different. I remember the fanboys coming home from the last summits, telling us how "they really listened this time, they so nice, they promise things will get better..." blah blah blah, sorry to burst anyones bubble, but its bullshit, dished out by the masters of bullshitting their customers to keep subs from dropping, the infamous SOE. (que the thunder/lightning and spooky music)
And now SOE is trying to pass the NGE-buck to LA, lol, please. The NGE was conceived by and pushed forward by SOE, not LA. SOE is the developer and publisher of SWG, not LA. SOE has even outright told us that they were infact the ones behind the NGE. So all this "ooo, the heavy hand of evil LA doomed us all..." is just people being ignorant. Is LA to blame for approving the NGE, after SOE pitched it to them as the best thing since sliced bread? Sure they are. But not nearly as guilty as the dumb asses who actually developed and pushed it forward from concept to live, and thatd be SOE.
Looks like SOE knows they're not getting any future SW title from LA at this point, and have decided to protect their own asses from here on out, starting with their current routine of "poor us at lil ol' SOE, big bad LA forced us to ruin SWG, we had no say in that at all, we promise, we'd never do something like that again...um, hey, while your here, want to check out some of our other games?"
Well, for now it doesn't even matter who made the NGE or what. It is staying and the only thing players can do now is try to improve it or not play it at all. If you don't like the game, don't play, but seriously get over it. The NGE is over a year old, and you guys are still sitting here flaming everything I have posted to you. You think that you have "revealed $oe's dirty greedy side to the people" and that you are superior to everyone who plays the game. Guess what. You are not. You seriously don't even criticize the game any more, you go straight for the company. The NGE is staying, so either get over it, or play it and enjoy it. There is no in between. I can't BELIEVE some people are still bitter about it. It is over a year old and you guys still sit here and post on it, even though you all don't even play the game, you just lurk the fucking forums. I don't know about you, but I am over the fact that the NGE is here, and I enjoy playing the game. I think you should figure out which side you are on so you can move on and have fun in other games. And for gods sake, it is fucking SOE not $OE. They are a company that makes money, oooohhh big deal! "I think I am going to put a dollar sign in front of the OE in SOE to symbolize that I am cool and SOE takes money from its players!". Well of course they do, YOU pay for it. Jesus fucking Christ.
You may want to look at the header for this forum .... Veteran Refuge.... A place for disgruntled former and current SWG players to talk about the game that WAS and the game that now is, ...
Hence why people will always voice their opinion on the game that WAS here.. You may not like it but you know you dont have to read it. It's your mouse clicker that clicks on that post even though the header you know is going to cause you to blow a vessel. People can whine about the game that used to be just like you can whine about the people that whine either way there is no way to stop it so might as well not get all worked up about it.
i take it everyone forgets that Lucas Arts is the company that contracted SOE to design & run the game.
I can buy that the people at SOE don't like what was done or the way it happened.
Do I forgive them? No.
MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G
Excellent point. LA isn't blameless. However, without knowing the terms of the contract I cannot sit here and shout LA should have stopped the NGE because I dont honestly know if they could have. I know for a fact SOE could have. So I pick on them. I cannot watch Attack of the Show since they gave that wessel from LA a virtual free pass on the NGE's glaring and obvious failures.
People like Nancy Mc who spout stupidity and get promoted bother the hell out of me and makes me wonder about the viability of any future star wars title.
I do not buy people at SOE dont like what was done or the way it happened. They admit they choose to push for the NGE. There is developer blog entries to prove it so. They sold it to LA. LA bought it hook line and sinker.
Jebus, eminem, where did you learn to WRITE???
That post is like...internet transmitted herpes or something.
It's a big team. At one time, 70 people. That made for over 70 opinions about anything, at any given time.
That dev blog was mine, in reference to the combat interface. It was not in reference "the NGE", but the clicky combat system which I did - and still do - find to be more fun than than what SWG had at the time.
I very much disliked a combat system in which a guy ran up to his target, pressed a function key, saw particle effects, ate a sammich, pressed a function key, more particle effects, drank some wine, and otherwise played his particle-effect generating toolbar until the target turned into a corpse.
Otherwise, SOE as the developer developed, and LA as the published approved or didn't, as ever has been the case.
But anyway, many people have left now - on to other projects or on to other start-ups in town. Fairly common in the game industry for folk to move off of old projects and onto new ones.
Maybe the people who are left at SOE don't like what happened or how it went down? Why is that hard to buy?
Jeff Freeman
It's a big team. At one time, 70 people. That made for over 70 opinions about anything, at any given time.
That dev blog was mine, in reference to the combat interface. It was not in reference "the NGE", but the clicky combat system which I did - and still do - find to be more fun than than what SWG had at the time.
I very much disliked a combat system in which a guy ran up to his target, pressed a function key, saw particle effects, ate a sammich, pressed a function key, more particle effects, drank some wine, and otherwise played his particle-effect generating toolbar until the target turned into a corpse.
Otherwise, SOE as the developer developed, and LA as the published approved or didn't, as ever has been the case.
But anyway, many people have left now - on to other projects or on to other start-ups in town. Fairly common in the game industry for folk to move off of old projects and onto new ones.
Maybe the people who are left at SOE don't like what happened or how it went down? Why is that hard to buy?
That comment about making combat what you liked rather than what the paying customers liked is really the thing I dislike about you most Jeff. It just reeks of hubris and a total lack of concern for the players.
Just my 2 cents.
It's a big team. At one time, 70 people. That made for over 70 opinions about anything, at any given time.
That dev blog was mine, in reference to the combat interface. It was not in reference "the NGE", but the clicky combat system which I did - and still do - find to be more fun than than what SWG had at the time.
I very much disliked a combat system in which a guy ran up to his target, pressed a function key, saw particle effects, ate a sammich, pressed a function key, more particle effects, drank some wine, and otherwise played his particle-effect generating toolbar until the target turned into a corpse.
Otherwise, SOE as the developer developed, and LA as the published approved or didn't, as ever has been the case.
But anyway, many people have left now - on to other projects or on to other start-ups in town. Fairly common in the game industry for folk to move off of old projects and onto new ones.
Maybe the people who are left at SOE don't like what happened or how it went down? Why is that hard to buy?
To be blunt: I think you guys assumed to much. Or worse, thought that is what needed to be fixed or worked on.
Funny, I don't remember seeing ANY posts about us complaing about the old UI, pre-CU .... I do remember however seeing "PLEASE FIX THIS: etc..."...
You guys seemed to work on what we liked and neglected what needed to be addressed most of the time.
But hey.... what do I know... I mean, the battle fields would have never have gone over if working right........ right??? lololol...
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
As for the design itself: Lord Pall was the lead designer then, doing what game designers are supposed to do: design a game system within given parameters. That is, we're tasked with things, like "redesign combat". And given some direction, like "make it so these people will like it". Or sometimes, "those people."
Jeff Freeman