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When will we stop blaming the Developer.....blame the Tester
felore
Member Posts: 222
All I heard from these so called beta testers were good things before launch. Giving it high hype scores. Saying how it was gonna be the best mmo ever. Then after launch....theres a flood of this is broke, that is broke. Did you once report a bug before the launch? I am playing this mmo on a onboard graphics card. I have zero problems. The bugs are not as bad as people are making them out to be. Ya the mob will disappear every now and then....but maybe after you have already killed 200-300 mobs. You know what ....mobs do that in lots of mmos....WoW has mobs that run through walls when almost dead bringing back 50 of its friends. Anarchy Online has Named mobs when killed on a ramp fall through the geometry making it unable for you to get that ultra rare loot. Has Vanguard even been out a month? It is way more playable than a lot of mmo's at their release points. Stop being so negative, how about making a positive step by using the Report Bugs option.
Comments
who me ?
Well first getting banned for discussing bugs...not a chance. Several people were permanently banned in Beta but no one was banned for discussing bugs. If that was the case, all the legit beta testers would have been banned.
As to you leaving for another beta because your not a programmer: good luck on how that next game turns out. Beta testers are supposed to TEST the game and report bugs to let the programmers know what needs attention. However too many people consider it just a chance to test it before you buy it.
LOL Don't even fricken try.
I was in with the original Alpha group and I personally reported thousands of bugs.
How many were actually fixed by end of beta?? 3.. That's right out of well over 2000 reported, 3 a silly sorry pathetic little 3 got fixed.
The worst part of this whole thread is... I WARNED YOU... and other real testers WARNED YOU. Right here on this forum and yet you heckled us, flamed us, and called us all liars.. so suck it up.
No sympathy from me.
As for you Sorrow, you sound like a big ol' baby who needs a hug.
I was only part of Vanguard from beta 3 and when the game came out every bug i can remember reporting was fixed... where do u come up with 3? If thats the case the game wouldn't be playable, and as Felore said people make it out to be worse than it is... My pc runs fine on full graphics and personally all i've experienced is mob warping and server crashes which every game has - and don't try argue with me on that.
When people write about this game they always note the points they aren't happy with, and honestly if i listened to all these complainers I would be missing out on a shit load of fun.
This game isn't for everyone, but try it for yourself with no outside influences affecting your opinion to develop your own.
Awesome
Sorry OP but you are dead wrong. The closed beta testers did their job. Sigil and SOE are the ones you need to be throwing rotten tomatoes at.
I think you mean the game is a load of shit don't you? I would advise that when the ten day trial comes out by all means people should try it for themselves, however do not spend good money on it.
I miss DAoC
The funny part is, most of the problems people are complaining about are problems that every MMO suffers from within it's first month of release.
Lag issues? Check
Server database issues? Check
Class balance issues? Check
Client stability issues? Check
Server stability issues? Check
Feel free to post if you've seen an MMO launched that didn't have any of these problems. I'll be surprised if anyone can think of one though.
Remember in WoW when the zeppelins were dropping people all over the place? Not a big deal. But somehow the haters seem to hold Vanguard to a different standard.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
As a beta tester, I tested more than enough and really long enough... so much so that I am mourning over the time lost over this game! I have posted many concerns in the forums as well. Unfortunately, the voice of reality was often hushed there by the blind fanbois and their "Can I have your stuff?" or "Go back to WoW" cries.
Honestly, do you want this game in "worthy to play" condition in a few months time? There is only one thing to do! Quit it! With as many mature minded gamers doing the same, It will send a strong message to the devs. Other than that, you are wasting forum space here.
At the moment, Vanguard is a generic, buggy grinder that is supposed to be free. With many other similar free MMOs out there, I don't know why people still pay for VG. I think the reason why is the hype-hypnotised tiny group of fanbois who still insist on paying.
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!
I miss DAoC
I think you mean the game is a load of shit don't you? I would advise that when the ten day trial comes out by all means people should try it for themselves, however do not spend good money on it.
You never miss a chance to dog on Vanguard...do ya.I reported a lot of bugs. It is the developer's responsibility, however, to fix them (or avoid them in the first place) and make a quality product, which Sigil failed to do.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Wow, this post has it all:
- Blame the players, not the game
- Assertions of no problems at all on below spec hardware
- Minimizing bugs to make them seem like no big deal
- Comparisons to WoW
- Assertions that the game hasn't been out long enough to be finished (now that's funny)
I think the problem that a lot of people have is confusing being negative with being honest. It's okay to tell it like it really is, and still like the game. I'm still playing it, but I'm not deluded enough to believe that everything is rosey. Vanguard has good points and it has major issues at the same time.
Testers should never get the blame until they get paid to do it. IMHO players shouldnt be invited until the las beta before stress test. Its not like player change the game much, Ive seen some bad ideas get put into games even the beta testers are screaming about it. MMORPGs are dead atm moment, they are not bringing anything new to the table, just trying to improve on whats there. You cant say its beta tester fault when a game releases buggy. All a dev had to do was load the game and play a new char and they would see all the bugs, they knew they where there and they didnt care, it was finished enough to get players to buy it and money talks. Why do you act surprised, or place false blame beta teasters are not being paid and they choose who was to be in beta.
But, when the early release date came, people were concerned, new threads appeared regarding it, Sigil posted their reasons, low cash & SoE demands etc. I played until maybe the 10th of Jan and I had enough, the patches were making progress but this game is in no way worth paying money for.
So I came here and I told you about it, and for that I was labelled a hater & a Troll.
EDIT: Just want to add, the main reason many testers didnt come here and spam their opinions of Vanguard is becuase they are under NDA, you only post your thoughts if you dont give a shit about losing your account.
---
Ya'know...
If can you blame these "players" and World of Warcraft for Vanguard, hell, developers may never make a bad game every again!!!
Think of it, seriously.
Someone makes another Pokeman game, Blame WoW and the Beta testers.
Someone makes another lame movie rip off game, blame WoW and beta testers.
WHY STOP THERE.
If Uwe Boll decides to make the most horrible game movie rip off ever called "Everguard, The Crazed Adventures", let's not blame him for being a looser or SOE for selling the rights, let's blame WoW and beta testers!!!
Yup, I predict a golden age in entertainment as of right now. Thank you WoW and testers, for being the scapegoats of the century.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
I think this post does have a good point.
For every 1 person who beta tests as a beta tester should, there are 1000 who think that 'beta testing' just means a 'free early sneak preview' that they can play and enjoy.
Some will even go so far as to intentionally not report issues in hopes they can exploit them after launch - a certain diplomacy bug for stupid amounts of money comes to mind.
Is this unique to Vanguard? No.
Could Sigil have maybe been more selective about its testers? Possibly.
Gaming? That's not gaming!
That's just people sat 'round in costumes drinking...
Sorry but its the devs and SOE that are to blame..............
You only get one chance to make a first impression and doubly so in the competitive MMO market. The first impression that people have gotten from this game is mediocre at best. Just like AO had an opportunity to challenge EQ and DAOC for MMO supremacy way back then but their launch was buggy and incomplete just like VG so people moved on and never looked back.
Im afraid Jackdog is right on this one. VG went straight to the ICU and will likely never recover. It will spend the rest of its days on life support via station pass.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
Apparently someone missed the 900 + posts about how nearly every beta tester was shocked about the release date.
Yes, OP, certainly we are to blame for them releasing the game 5 months early. Lay off the crack.
Its a little early for me to sign the death certificate, Starman, though I do fear you are right. Its a real shame, too, because this game could have really been something. I am still hoping they will pull it together, and I know that they are trying, my few interactions with GMs thus far have definitely given me that impression ( even though in all 3 cases - lost items, lost xp, and a completely borked character model bug where my character had two torsoes and four arms, the GM could do nothing to help me.)
They are trying, and I know the circumstances around the release was somewhat of a 'release or go bankrupt' scenario, or so I've heard, but it just seems like the priorities are somewhat skewed. Perception is reality and impressions mean a LOT - Sigil really should give the 'class balance' development team and in fact any employee who isn't working on stability and bug fixing a vacation until the game is technically more sound - because with changes to classes coming in, and game breaking bugs not being fixed, the impression is that Sigil is mis-prioritizing. While this isn't precisely the case, the public eye doesn't really care about truth, it cares about appearances.
I'm still hoping they can pull it off, though my weekly visits to the fansite forums quickly erode my hopes.
Gaming? That's not gaming!
That's just people sat 'round in costumes drinking...
Vanguard is a grinder, that is another thing with the content of this game. The main problem with this game and other games like it is that you are not following a main quest. . .if you aren't following a main quest what is there to get immersed in. . .When I first started I justs tarted in a world where you just played the game. . .you don't follow a story you don't take down main bosses for the kingdom or province. . .you just do odd jobs for the people that need help. . .
http://mentaltruancy.guildportal.com - Friendly Vanguard:Saga of Heroes Qalia based Guild.
We didn't pay the testers for the product, it is the developers fault that they didn't hire better caliber of testers. While there were some good ones out there, the way that Vanguard did its beta invites clearly shows a lot of slack assing. There were plenty of accounts that were used once or twice then never logged again. . .those people should have been removed and there should have been fresh blood, if Vanguard actually had some stringent rules for BT's then perhaps they would have received more feedback so those people that actually cared about BT'ing and not BP'ing would have gotten in.
http://mentaltruancy.guildportal.com - Friendly Vanguard:Saga of Heroes Qalia based Guild.
Lag Issues? Should have been found, checked and fixed under and after stress testing.
Server Database Issues? That is something that also must have been a problem under Beta and should have been found and fixed.
Class Balance Issues? There will always be issues of balances in games. I don't know how often I tried to argue that the queen are too strong in chess, but it will never be fixed. So that issue are forgiveable, even when it would be great not to have that problem.
Client Stability Issues? See Server Database Issues.
Server Stability Issues? See Server Database Issues.
This is not just on Vanguard, but as you said in almost any MMORPG out there. Now how can that be? It's is plain wrong and certainly an element of rushed products, so the companies can earn some quick $$$. All those problems are noticeable through Beta and should be fixed before Live.
Now, I just choose to not put up with it any more and it just fitted with Vanguard's Launch. The only thing I can do about it, since I'm certain they will not care how often I call them or how often I write rants in either emails or at forums, is too say, "Tough Love, Sigil. You are now on the list of Devs I will never touch a product from again.You are probably good guys, but it is time for you, to sit in the corner". Not because I'm insanely mad or completly out of my mind, but it is simply the only weapon I have to fight with.
So for now on Apollo's Will's Blacklist:
Sigil (Vanguard)
Obsidian (Neverwinter Night 2)
More to come.
I heard a rumour that Brad "The game god" Mcquest had already been working on his vision for five years. I mean come one only five years to get it right, you trolls have to give SIGIL a chance you know. It's not like they built the golden gate bridge in only five years ...............
/sarcasm off
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
You'd think that any game in development that long would have been much farther along.