EQ, DAoC, WoW, Vanguard and most games on this website are 2nd gen.
Is AoC a 3rd gen? If you are even asking the question...a generation is not a subtle shift, it is an obvious change. It is not a few details and a new label, it is something that nobody can argue.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
UO is 1st gen EQ, DAoC, WoW, Vanguard and most games on this website are 2nd gen.
Is AoC a 3rd gen? If you are even asking the question...a generation is not a subtle shift, it is an obvious change. It is not a few details and a new label, it is something that nobody can argue.
does a 6 point combat system, formation combat, spellweaving, and physics-mounted combat count as an obvious change?
does a 6 point combat system, formation combat, spellweaving, and physics-mounted combat count as an obvious change?
To me, it isn't obvious with words. Maybe with a glance it will change...but...I doubt it. UO is 2D. EQ and WoW are 3D. There is no room to argue. A car is a car, a plane is a plane.
Is AoC 3rd gen or what you describe 3rd gen? As much as you like it, I don't think so. I would love to convince you that CoH is a 3rd gen...but it isn't...it is the "best 2nd gen" if we want, but it is, 2nd gen.
The fact that you bring 4 points to support a change in a gen...is just the proof that it is still 2nd gen; maybe the best 2nd gen ever and going to change the gaming world like WoW. See, Blizzard never cry when we say WoW is 2nd gen and belong with EQ and Vanguard, they smile and say they do it better. A new gen doesn't need a paragraph it is obvious.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I really don't understand you people. If a generation is marked by innovation, than there hasn't been more than a single generation, unless you count MUDs. This "MIGHT" just stretch to innovative. It has a nice M rating, the combat is more involved, albeit far from the real time they are passing it off to be, first game on the new operating system, lots of voice overs, some good ideas with PvP. It's still not that revolutionary. Perhaps the only things that could really push this over the top is the mounted combat + the spell-weaving. I think innovation should take physics into account, and maybe some more platforming elements, more puzzles, and really try to do SOMETHING new with the quests, for God's sake, that's been the weakest, and largest part of the MMORPG market for so long, improve them!
I really don't understand you people. If a generation is marked by innovation, than there hasn't been more than a single generation, unless you count MUDs. This "MIGHT" just stretch to innovative. It has a nice M rating, the combat is more involved, albeit far from the real time they are passing it off to be, first game on the new operating system, lots of voice overs, some good ideas with PvP. It's still not that revolutionary. Perhaps the only things that could really push this over the top is the mounted combat + the spell-weaving. I think innovation should take physics into account, and maybe some more platforming elements, more puzzles, and really try to do SOMETHING new with the quests, for God's sake, that's been the weakest, and largest part of the MMORPG market for so long, improve them!
Improve the quest system eh?
Perhaps you mean in terms of various ways to begin a quest, like say stumbling onto the scene of a crime as opposed to talking to NPCs that just stand there all day? Or quests that affect the way NPCs around you act towards you, and not just the one you actually did the quest for? Perhaps you meant multiple methods for completing the same quest? Or would simply getting rid of the "Kill X mob"/"collect Y of Z" formulae be enough?
All of these are done in AoC, and to be honest, without taking the step into the realm of truly world affecting quests, the above is about as far as you can go. And no MMORPG is going to be taking that step for decades.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
I don't know how people come up with "generations" for MMOs. I mean for a generation skip to occur I believe a MAJOR change needs to happen. Here is how I see it:
The first generation of MMO to me are MUDS. Text based, but hundreds/thousands of people online in one persistent game world.
Second Generation: Let's introduce Graphics aka Ultima Online quickly replaced by:
Third Generation (3D): Everything from EQ to VG/LotR.
Let's face it - NO MMO has significantly changed the genre since EQ. Interfaces look the same, we have 1st and or 3rd person view, we raid, we PvP, we get items, we level blah blah blah.
None of the games out right now nor any of the games in development are going to break that mold. Just because VG claimed to be next generation (what a joke!) doesn't mean it is. I'm looking forward to WAR but I have no illusions about it. It will follow the same pattern as all MMOs for the past 8 years. For something to be next (4th) generation it would have to change the way we play MMOs.
Sure over the years we added fancy features such as player housing, instancing, diplomacy aka Magic: The Gathering Online (/boggle) but none of those actually change HOW the game is played.
It's the same with the RTS genre. Yeah we have tons of new features but if you played Original Warcraft or Command & Conquer I you can play all of them.
Comments
We only have 2 gens so far.
UO is 1st gen
EQ, DAoC, WoW, Vanguard and most games on this website are 2nd gen.
Is AoC a 3rd gen? If you are even asking the question...a generation is not a subtle shift, it is an obvious change. It is not a few details and a new label, it is something that nobody can argue.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
To me, it isn't obvious with words. Maybe with a glance it will change...but...I doubt it. UO is 2D. EQ and WoW are 3D. There is no room to argue. A car is a car, a plane is a plane.
Is AoC 3rd gen or what you describe 3rd gen? As much as you like it, I don't think so. I would love to convince you that CoH is a 3rd gen...but it isn't...it is the "best 2nd gen" if we want, but it is, 2nd gen.
The fact that you bring 4 points to support a change in a gen...is just the proof that it is still 2nd gen; maybe the best 2nd gen ever and going to change the gaming world like WoW. See, Blizzard never cry when we say WoW is 2nd gen and belong with EQ and Vanguard, they smile and say they do it better. A new gen doesn't need a paragraph it is obvious.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Never give up and never surrender!
Darkfall Travelogues!
Perhaps you mean in terms of various ways to begin a quest, like say stumbling onto the scene of a crime as opposed to talking to NPCs that just stand there all day? Or quests that affect the way NPCs around you act towards you, and not just the one you actually did the quest for? Perhaps you meant multiple methods for completing the same quest? Or would simply getting rid of the "Kill X mob"/"collect Y of Z" formulae be enough?
All of these are done in AoC, and to be honest, without taking the step into the realm of truly world affecting quests, the above is about as far as you can go. And no MMORPG is going to be taking that step for decades.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
I don't know how people come up with "generations" for MMOs. I mean for a generation skip to occur I believe a MAJOR change needs to happen. Here is how I see it:
The first generation of MMO to me are MUDS. Text based, but hundreds/thousands of people online in one persistent game world.
Second Generation: Let's introduce Graphics aka Ultima Online quickly replaced by:
Third Generation (3D): Everything from EQ to VG/LotR.
Let's face it - NO MMO has significantly changed the genre since EQ. Interfaces look the same, we have 1st and or 3rd person view, we raid, we PvP, we get items, we level blah blah blah.
None of the games out right now nor any of the games in development are going to break that mold. Just because VG claimed to be next generation (what a joke!) doesn't mean it is. I'm looking forward to WAR but I have no illusions about it. It will follow the same pattern as all MMOs for the past 8 years. For something to be next (4th) generation it would have to change the way we play MMOs.
Sure over the years we added fancy features such as player housing, instancing, diplomacy aka Magic: The Gathering Online (/boggle) but none of those actually change HOW the game is played.
It's the same with the RTS genre. Yeah we have tons of new features but if you played Original Warcraft or Command & Conquer I you can play all of them.
Just my humble opinion...
Deathstiny
Guild Master of Reborn