The problem with LOTR graphics that you can't see in the screenshots is that in game it kind of feels like your in an invisible room with very vivid paintings on the wall. I can't explain it any other way but I feel like i'm in a box or a prison.
It's called LSD, someone slipped it into your cheerios, wait 8 hours or so and give it another shot.
ROFL.
As for this thread. I haven't played LOTR, and I stopped playing Vanguard a week back. But in VGs defense, it's a bloody huge game and having a consistently screenshot-quality art style for a world that big is pretty much impossible.
The models in lotr remind me of boxes with eyes painted on.
BTW I find your remark about the lsd highly offensive and very bland. Do you know anyone who has tripped on acid? are you aware of the severe psychological problems it causes that aren't apparent until years later? Believe me it's no joke when a good friend kills himself...RIP brother.
Wow, somehow me making a joke about the description turned into me making fun of someone killing themselves... nah, I don't think so.. you can take your guiltrip elsewhere jimmy, I've been around too long and seen too much for that to phase me.
But nice try!
Do I know anyone who has 'tripped on acid'?.. yeah, myself and pretty much everyone I grew up with, and hundreds of times. We are all fine and living healthy, wealthy lives now.
Why do people kill themselves? Every reason under the sun. And fear not, I too have experience with loss and suicide. But if you think I was eve coming closs to making fun of people killing themselves, your mind is someplace dark..
Anyway, boxes with eyes painted on? You get the block too.. cya.
The problem with LOTR graphics that you can't see in the screenshots is that in game it kind of feels like your in an invisible room with very vivid paintings on the wall. I can't explain it any other way but I feel like i'm in a box or a prison.
It's called LSD, someone slipped it into your cheerios, wait 8 hours or so and give it another shot.
ROFL.
As for this thread. I haven't played LOTR, and I stopped playing Vanguard a week back. But in VGs defense, it's a bloody huge game and having a consistently screenshot-quality art style for a world that big is pretty much impossible.
The models in lotr remind me of boxes with eyes painted on.
BTW I find your remark about the lsd highly offensive and very bland. Do you know anyone who has tripped on acid? are you aware of the severe psychological problems it causes that aren't apparent until years later? Believe me it's no joke when a good friend kills himself...RIP brother.
Wow, somehow me making a joke about the description turned into me making fun of someone killing themselves... nah, I don't think so.. you can take your guiltrip elsewhere jimmy, I've been around too long and seen too much for that to phase me.
But nice try!
Do I know anyone who has 'tripped on acid'?.. yeah, myself and pretty much everyone I grew up with, and hundreds of times. We are all fine and living healthy, wealthy lives now.
Why do people kill themselves? Every reason under the sun. And fear not, I too have experience with loss and suicide. But if you think I was eve coming closs to making fun of people killing themselves, your mind is someplace dark..
Anyway, boxes with eyes painted on? You get the block too.. cya.
I think he was speaking of how there is a 2d background far off in the distance in LotR i.e. everything in the distance is not rendered in 3d but is an imposter 2d background, thus his comment about being in a vividly painted box.
I took these shots today in VG, click them to make them full screen. LotR looks really great for what it does, I just prefer Vanguards gritty look.
Not knocking VSOH... but the environment artist who mapped the texture to the rock the character is standing on in the third screenshot needs more sleep, more training or more time.
That is just... bad. I could almost see it if they were aiming at lowering rendering overhead by using larger, less detailed textures, but compared to the surrounding scenery, it looks like someone just fell asleep at the texture wheel there for a minute or two. Ouch.
And you can know that by looking at exactly 1/5th of the rock which that angle affords you? Did you just come up with that insult to flame the game? Seriously man there is no way you can tell what you just said based on that screenshot. Your lying.
You seem to have forgotten two words that are implied in his statement -- "That is just... bad. I could almost see it if they were aiming at lowering rendering overhead by using larger, less detailed textures, but compared to the surrounding scenery,(To me) it looks like someone just fell asleep at the texture wheel there for a minute or two. Ouch".
It is simply his opinion and nothing else. If it looks like that to him, how can he be lying ?
He is lying because his opinion is based on no factual evidence and he is wrong regardless, no one fell asleep making this game, he is trying to knock the game by lying and pretending he knows something about making graphics.
The problem with LOTR graphics that you can't see in the screenshots is that in game it kind of feels like your in an invisible room with very vivid paintings on the wall. I can't explain it any other way but I feel like i'm in a box or a prison.
It's called LSD, someone slipped it into your cheerios, wait 8 hours or so and give it another shot.
ROFL.
As for this thread. I haven't played LOTR, and I stopped playing Vanguard a week back. But in VGs defense, it's a bloody huge game and having a consistently screenshot-quality art style for a world that big is pretty much impossible.
The models in lotr remind me of boxes with eyes painted on.
BTW I find your remark about the lsd highly offensive and very bland. Do you know anyone who has tripped on acid? are you aware of the severe psychological problems it causes that aren't apparent until years later? Believe me it's no joke when a good friend kills himself...RIP brother.
Wow, somehow me making a joke about the description turned into me making fun of someone killing themselves... nah, I don't think so.. you can take your guiltrip elsewhere jimmy, I've been around too long and seen too much for that to phase me.
But nice try!
Do I know anyone who has 'tripped on acid'?.. yeah, myself and pretty much everyone I grew up with, and hundreds of times. We are all fine and living healthy, wealthy lives now.
Why do people kill themselves? Every reason under the sun. And fear not, I too have experience with loss and suicide. But if you think I was eve coming closs to making fun of people killing themselves, your mind is someplace dark..
Anyway, boxes with eyes painted on? You get the block too.. cya.
I think he was speaking of how there is a 2d background far off in the distance in LotR i.e. everything in the distance is not rendered in 3d but is an imposter 2d background, thus his comment about being in a vividly painted box.
Thank you for explaining my perspective in a more valid way. I was refering to hunter s thompson. And to the other posterYou tripped on acid? That explains your hostility and desire to flame people. One of the long term effects of acid is paranoia and unexplainable beligerent hostility.
Based on those screenshots, the answer is obvious-- LOTR looks miles better, and for one main, overriding reason: Art Direction.
Tolkien's world had a very specific style all its own, and the artwork by men like Alan Lee and John Howe brought that world to life. The game, just like the movies that came before, follows that same art direction while bringing its own unique style to Middle Earth. The colors are vibrant, there's contrast in the world, and everything in the world not only looks more lush, but as if it has an actual purpose, and isn't just there to take up space.
For the sake of contrast, just look at the very first pair of screens. In Vanguard, the shore and the water are both the same washed out, gray tone, and all the bump mapping makes it all look like it runs together. Also, the water isn't reflecting the environment, making everything look unnatural, and as if it isn't even part of the world.
The LOTR shot, on the other hand, looks more realistic, at least in terms of immersion. The place feels alive, and organic, rather than washed out and plain.
I'd just like to share some VG screens 'cause I'm not sure where else to put them (there were some SS threads but they seem to have been eaten by the forum beast). I have a really low end system and if I try to run up around high or highest quality my computer usually can't really handle it, but I expect that, and I'm in dire need of an upgrade. Also, for some reason (I don't think my graphics card has shader 3.0 or it could be some other reason) the water ends up looking like a really low res terrible texture for me, which I'm used to but other than that puts some people off. But it just doesn't work for me. Perhaps I don't have the right drivers or something.
The first one was taken during beta with a p4 3.0ghz intel, radeon x300, and 512MB ram. I think that was on high performance (it was actually called something else then but I forget what) with the clip plane and tree detail range up as high as I could make them. I happened to be riding a griffon towards a sunset behind or around widow's veil peak, home of the dwarves (thats the name of the mountain right?) behind Themnwar's shield, a big dam, which is the structure to the bottom left. Then I upgraded to 1.5 gigs of ram but otherwise the same system and the rest are from live:
in riftseekers, the sky there moves quickly and its pretty surreal. definitely one of the most memorable MMO areas I've been in.
on my horse looking at the western watch barracks in tursh
Originally posted by roadwarriors He is lying because his opinion is based on no factual evidence and he is wrong regardless, no one fell asleep making this game, he is trying to knock the game by lying and pretending he knows something about making graphics.
roadwarriors; I am not lying and I most definitely know a considerable amount about the subject. I have been a graphic artist, illustrator and 3D modeler for a considerable number of years now.
When a texture is not mapped properly to an object or terrain area, it results in stretching and skewing of the texture. So rather than achieving the blended, detailed surface you desire, you get a distorted texture that does not appear as you may have desired it to.
In other screenshots, look at how the stones have textures mapped to them properly; the texture is smooth and consistent with the object edges; the texture does not appear stretched and it retains its detail. It looks like what it is supposed to be.
However, in that one screenshot, the black granite-type texture they were using has obviously been stretched to the surface area (or simply not mapped properly). In comparison to the other textures in the screenshot, it is stretched considerably and that has resulted in lost detail.
See how, in comparison with the sandy beach area in the background, the black granite appears very flat, rather than rounded more like a three dimensional object? That is also a result of a poorly mapped texture.
Do you see how the dark gray veins are stretched across the surface and stand out in harsh contrast with the light contrast of the texture? If the texture were smaller and repeated more, (or if it is simply a mapping problem that has stretched the texture out of proportion) those large veins would blend better, creating a veined surface more closely approximating granite.
Compare that surface with the large brownish stone in the screenshot below it. Do you see how the texure on the brown stone is smaller and repeated more often (or has been mapped properly to the size of the object)? Do you see how the darker veins blend better over the surface of the object? If you took the base texture on that brown stone and stretched it, you would get an effect similar to what happened with the veined granite texture in the screenshot I am referring to.
I was not literallly saying someone fell asleep while making VSoH. I was saying that in regards to that one area, they were perhaps not paying enough attention to the texture map of the object (area) or the texture itself was flawed (too large, not enough detail, etc).
It's not necessary that you believe me. Go to the Unreal web site and download the Unreal Editor 2 demo. Creat an object and a texture and play with it for a bit. You will see for yourself how the number of times a texture is repeated, its angle, rotation and the size of the texture affect the appearance of your object.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq Adnihilo Beorn Judge's Edge Somnulus Perfect Black ---------------------- Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2 Everquest / Everquest 2 Anarchy Online Shadowbane Dark Age of Camelot Star Wars Galaxies Matrix Online World of Warcraft Guild Wars City of Heroes
Great threat. Thanks for your comments, Somnulus. I always wondered why VG looked so wrong to me. Though I played around with 3D modelling a bit myself (Cinema4D, Blender) I do not have the right words to explain it.
Screenshots are screenshots, they rarely if ever has any relevance on the playing experience you're going to get yourself in my oppinion. They are used by marketing people and they are there to pull in the consumer.
I play Vanguard. I have experienced nice vistas and I have seen lots and lots of bleak uninspired deserts all around me. Is it better than Game X? I find that "better" is so subjective that it is pointless to really discuss (since, who am I to tell anybody else what their preferences are?) but I would like to make a comment about an element that I find is nice in regards to Vanguard's graphics.
I like the fact that the graphics suit the layout of the game. For me, one of the attractions of Vanguard is the huge landmass and in order for this landmass to appear huge it has to have vast areas of very similar terrain. A desert is huge if it takes a while to cross it, but a desert is a desert, it is bleak, barren, and rather level with a few dunes and some hardy reptiles or other small animals. If the environment changed dramatically from one area to the next it would not feel like one world, it would feel like tiles of varying size that was next to eachother and each was a separate mini-world of its own.
This is not an attack on World of Warcraft which I have also played and enjoyed, but WoW is an example of such a graphic layout. A distinct style for each zone so you can go from the deserts of Thousand Needles directly into the lush almost rainforest like vegetation of Feralas. It is very obvious where the zones cross over and that's one choice a developer can make.
Me personally prefer the Vanguard approach but that's not because of the individual textures or the amount of polygons, or the amount of lights casting shadows everywhere, it is because it makes the world a bit more real for me as a player. It makes a bit more sense to me and I like that.
I also like the fact that everything remains in perspective, that there is no painted background but that mountains several kilometers away are visible in the far off distance and that they will gradually grow and become more and more imposing as I ride closer. Again I like this because it feels more immersive to me.
So as I said in my opening, I really couldn't care about screenshots.
I am going to play Lord of the Rings: Online and any other MMO that sounds interesting to me and if it delivers good entertainment I'm going to keep playing it. RIght now my entertainment comes from Vanguard and one of its nice points to me is definately its graphics. And just for the record: Yes I have a very powerful computer and yes that is required to make Vanguard run and yes Vanguard propably has the least optimized graphics of any current MMO. But for me, Vanguard also has the most immersive world and that's largely due to its graphics.
Like i said Harafnir your opinion means nothing to me i could give one s----what you think are good graphic's LotR looks awesome but so does vanguard and anyone who cant admit it is just a SOE hating basher and am not playing a WOW clone like LotR on my 4000$ computer . i dont know who took them and i dont care they look nothing like vanguard does on my 24 inch wide screen dell with every setting maxed at 1920 x1200 and before you whine about the type of computer i run vanguard on i built it to play the games of the future
In the future, games play YOU!
*next part is PERSONAL opinion*
well, I know for myself that I'm NOT SOE hating basher, I barely know SOE and never played any game from them so I don't have any reason why to hate them, really and even so I hate the graphics of Vanguard, it's just not my taste, it looks plastic, dull and uninteresing, boring and simply ugly to me for some reason, I don't even like looking at the screenshots from VG, I almost want to 'puke' everytime I see them (when I saw that ship on water I almost did )
P.S. for the flamers, I'm NOT saying the graphic of VG is bad, it surely has a lot of details, polygons or whatever else, but to me it just looks ugly, like they forgot to hire some artists when making VG, not only programmers
The problem with LOTR graphics that you can't see in the screenshots is that in game it kind of feels like your in an invisible room with very vivid paintings on the wall. I can't explain it any other way but I feel like i'm in a box or a prison.
It's called LSD, someone slipped it into your cheerios, wait 8 hours or so and give it another shot.
ROFL.
As for this thread. I haven't played LOTR, and I stopped playing Vanguard a week back. But in VGs defense, it's a bloody huge game and having a consistently screenshot-quality art style for a world that big is pretty much impossible.
The models in lotr remind me of boxes with eyes painted on.
BTW I find your remark about the lsd highly offensive and very bland. Do you know anyone who has tripped on acid? are you aware of the severe psychological problems it causes that aren't apparent until years later? Believe me it's no joke when a good friend kills himself...RIP brother.
Wow, somehow me making a joke about the description turned into me making fun of someone killing themselves... nah, I don't think so.. you can take your guiltrip elsewhere jimmy, I've been around too long and seen too much for that to phase me.
But nice try!
Do I know anyone who has 'tripped on acid'?.. yeah, myself and pretty much everyone I grew up with, and hundreds of times. We are all fine and living healthy, wealthy lives now.
Why do people kill themselves? Every reason under the sun. And fear not, I too have experience with loss and suicide. But if you think I was eve coming closs to making fun of people killing themselves, your mind is someplace dark..
Anyway, boxes with eyes painted on? You get the block too.. cya.
I think he was speaking of how there is a 2d background far off in the distance in LotR i.e. everything in the distance is not rendered in 3d but is an imposter 2d background, thus his comment about being in a vividly painted box.
Thank you for explaining my perspective in a more valid way. I was refering to hunter s thompson. And to the other posterYou tripped on acid? That explains your hostility and desire to flame people. One of the long term effects of acid is paranoia and unexplainable beligerent hostility.
LOL... Hunter S Thompson.. do you even know who you are talking about?? You give me crap for mentioning LSD.. have you ever read any of his work?
You would know about the long-term effects of LSD use how? Oh yeah, your vast experience with the subject. Right. Reading your replies is great, it's good to know brainwashing is still in full effect. But brainwashed or not, you do need to work on your sense of humor.
I'm done with this thread, arguing with the mis-informed puts me on edge.
He is lying because his opinion is based on no factual evidence and he is wrong regardless, no one fell asleep making this game, he is trying to knock the game by lying and pretending he knows something about making graphics.
roadwarriors; I am not lying and I most definitely know a considerable amount about the subject. I have been a graphic artist, illustrator and 3D modeler for a considerable number of years now.
When a texture is not mapped properly to an object or terrain area, it results in stretching and skewing of the texture. So rather than achieving the blended, detailed surface you desire, you get a distorted texture that does not appear as you may have desired it to.
In other screenshots, look at how the stones have textures mapped to them properly; the texture is smooth and consistent with the object edges; the texture does not appear stretched and it retains its detail. It looks like what it is supposed to be.
However, in that one screenshot, the black granite-type texture they were using has obviously been stretched to the surface area (or simply not mapped properly). In comparison to the other textures in the screenshot, it is stretched considerably and that has resulted in lost detail.
See how, in comparison with the sandy beach area in the background, the black granite appears very flat, rather than rounded more like a three dimensional object? That is also a result of a poorly mapped texture.
Do you see how the dark gray veins are stretched across the surface and stand out in harsh contrast with the light contrast of the texture? If the texture were smaller and repeated more, (or if it is simply a mapping problem that has stretched the texture out of proportion) those large veins would blend better, creating a veined surface more closely approximating granite.
Compare that surface with the large brownish stone in the screenshot below it. Do you see how the texure on the brown stone is smaller and repeated more often (or has been mapped properly to the size of the object)? Do you see how the darker veins blend better over the surface of the object? If you took the base texture on that brown stone and stretched it, you would get an effect similar to what happened with the veined granite texture in the screenshot I am referring to.
I was not literallly saying someone fell asleep while making VSoH. I was saying that in regards to that one area, they were perhaps not paying enough attention to the texture map of the object (area) or the texture itself was flawed (too large, not enough detail, etc).
It's not necessary that you believe me. Go to the Unreal web site and download the Unreal Editor 2 demo. Creat an object and a texture and play with it for a bit. You will see for yourself how the number of times a texture is repeated, its angle, rotation and the size of the texture affect the appearance of your object.
Ok your disdain for a certain rock not withstanding, having played both games (if you have) which game would you say has better graphics? In terms of advanced design, not artistic or style choice. Also you must take into account the size of the two worlds, to not do so would be to compare a vase with the statue of liberty. Scale must be taken into account.
If you said that the world of Vanguard is so much bigger in size and scope that they cannot be compared, then you picked the right answer.
LOTR has far prettier graphics, IMHO, when you're talking about screen shots and such. It definitely beats VG hands down on prettiness, no doubt about it. BUT it has the "movie set" problem that people keep talking about. In LOTR, I don't feel like I'm part of the environment, I feel like an actor on a stage with pictures of houses and fields, etc.
So, in the end, I come down on the question of "better" this way:
I can't tell by SS, but does the sky in LoTRO move?
LoTRO looks more like GW to me. The screens make the world look restrained and linear somehow, and the character models seem strange. They use a lot of 2d textures to give a 3d feel to the characters. The only game I can really compare the character models to is the way they are done in Lineage 2, expcept that the L2 models look much better.
I can't explain it really. It's like simple 3d models with complex 2d textures to make the model look like it has more polygons in it, and lineage 2 did the same thing so that they could display hundreds of characters on screen without effecting the performance. It looks like LoTRO is doing the same thing with thier models.
In my opinion when you are compairing graphics you have to look at the complexity of the code and the technology that is used to create the images you are seeing. You can do a lot of things with simple codes and low polygons to make it look pretty but it's still graphically inferior.
I would call it static graphics. LoTRO looks pretty now but unless they overhaul the engine in 2 years it will not improve with system upgrades. VG on the other hand is going to look better and better as systems upgrade and video cards take advantage of new software technology. Light, shadows, and reflections are not drawn the same in the two game.
I really don't think that anyone has a system that is capable of showing off VG at it's fullest yet. I'm running a 7950 now and It's not even able to use some of the stuff that is in the engine. I believe it's the world shader that that won't let me go over 80%. Tone mapping and HDR can still cause problems or just not show. I really think there are things that are being missed in VG because of it's complexity were the graphics are concerned.
But yeah, LoTRO is very pretty looking, and it's also a game that should be compared with WoW and not VG as they are as dif. as MMO's set in a fantasy would can be. Even then LoTRO is prolly more along the lines of what Chronicles of Spellborne will be then what WoW is. Trying to make comparisons between these two games is like trying to make a comparison over wich is better, Madden or NBA streets; both are sports titles but not neccasarily sitting in the same market. VG is a sandbox game more akin to UO with a non linear progression and LoTRO is based on a pre existing IP, restricted in the things they can do and linear. These two games appeal to vastly different markets, one is casual centric while the other is designed to appeal to the hardcore MMO player. One is building to compete directly with WoW while the other is here to fill a niche market.
Ok your disdain for a certain rock not withstanding, having played both games (if you have) which game would you say has better graphics? In terms of advanced design, not artistic or style choice. Also you must take into account the size of the two worlds, to not do so would be to compare a vase with the statue of liberty. Scale must be taken into account. If you said that the world of Vanguard is so much bigger in size and scope that they cannot be compared, then you picked the right answer.
design is far superior in LotRo, you can tell just by looking on the screens, designers were playing with all those details in lotro
if you mean technical stuff like amount of polygons or shaders, technology and such things, then surely VG is in advantage but what's the point in having super technology when you can't use it or make it look nice??? take Final Fantasy XII for example, for the old PS2 and look how it looks... it's not about HOW ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY YOU HAVE, but HOW YOU USE IT
and as for the world size... noone really cares, cause if that's an excuse why they made it look ugly cause of big world, then they surely took a bigger bite than they could handle
I'd rather have smaller world that shows the 'love of designers' , that people put a lot of effort in it and with all the details, with nice artistic work than huge, vast world that looks bad and like it was thrown together just for the sake of it
you can make small vase look nice and also the statue of liberty, size doesn't matter, especially not in design and art, that's just stupid excuse
or can you imagine, that you'd go to a school of design and when they give you a task to make something bigger, you'd tell them that cause of the size you couldn't make it look nice like smaller works? that's ridiculous don't you think? they'd kick you out of the school sooner than you could spell 'design'
I can't tell by SS, but does the sky in LoTRO move? LoTRO looks more like GW to me. The screens make the world look restrained and linear somehow, and the character models seem strange. They use a lot of 2d textures to give a 3d feel to the characters. The only game I can really compare the character models to is the way they are done in Lineage 2, expcept that the L2 models look much better. I can't explain it really. It's like simple 3d models with complex 2d textures to make the model look like it has more polygons in it, and lineage 2 did the same thing so that they could display hundreds of characters on screen without effecting the performance. It looks like LoTRO is doing the same thing with thier models. In my opinion when you are compairing graphics you have to look at the complexity of the code and the technology that is used to create the images you are seeing. You can do a lot of things with simple codes and low polygons to make it look pretty but it's still graphically inferior. I would call it static graphics. LoTRO looks pretty now but unless they overhaul the engine in 2 years it will not improve with system upgrades. VG on the other hand is going to look better and better as systems upgrade and video cards take advantage of new software technology. Light, shadows, and reflections are not drawn the same in the two game. I really don't think that anyone has a system that is capable of showing off VG at it's fullest yet. I'm running a 7950 now and It's not even able to use some of the stuff that is in the engine. I believe it's the world shader that that won't let me go over 80%. Tone mapping and HDR can still cause problems or just not show. I really think there are things that are being missed in VG because of it's complexity were the graphics are concerned. But yeah, LoTRO is very pretty looking, and it's also a game that should be compared with WoW and not VG as they are as dif. as MMO's set in a fantasy would can be. Even then LoTRO is prolly more along the lines of what Chronicles of Spellborne will be then what WoW is. Trying to make comparisons between these two games is like trying to make a comparison over wich is better, Madden or NBA streets; both are sports titles but not neccasarily sitting in the same market. VG is a sandbox game more akin to UO with a non linear progression and LoTRO is based on a pre existing IP, restricted in the things they can do and linear. These two games appeal to vastly different markets, one is casual centric while the other is designed to appeal to the hardcore MMO player. One is building to compete directly with WoW while the other is here to fill a niche market.
This is where someone finally points out why the game runs poorly for alot of people, the graphics are far far far advanced. They built it this way to make sure it looked up to date in a year , most players load the game assume they can crank the graphics they beghin play and the hitching and such begins , they blame the game engine , the developer or anything else but the real cause.... their PC. I have 2 pcs 1 at work which runs Vanguard almost flawlessly on medium with bump mapping on with the exception of running through large cities where I lose a good 10-15 fps from my standard 35-50 base whoc is just fine by me, at home my pc is much older so I know its limitations and I cranked the effects right down to get a playable performance , not lovely by any means but I can get by and group just fine. I do not blame anyone but my poor pc for performance. FYI for you new Vista runners it takes over 1 gig of ram just to run the gui of VISTA ( beyond all the other resource hogging applications that run along with it in gbackgroundas it was not produced to be a gaming OS so if you go out and buy a new pc with vista and 1.5gig of ram or even 2gig you are gonna be disappointed and again not anyones fault but your pcs. Vanuguard has some issues still but far less then original release, I love it and plan to continue.
I can't tell by SS, but does the sky in LoTRO move? LoTRO looks more like GW to me. The screens make the world look restrained and linear somehow, and the character models seem strange. They use a lot of 2d textures to give a 3d feel to the characters. The only game I can really compare the character models to is the way they are done in Lineage 2, expcept that the L2 models look much better. I can't explain it really. It's like simple 3d models with complex 2d textures to make the model look like it has more polygons in it, and lineage 2 did the same thing so that they could display hundreds of characters on screen without effecting the performance. It looks like LoTRO is doing the same thing with thier models. In my opinion when you are compairing graphics you have to look at the complexity of the code and the technology that is used to create the images you are seeing. You can do a lot of things with simple codes and low polygons to make it look pretty but it's still graphically inferior. I would call it static graphics. LoTRO looks pretty now but unless they overhaul the engine in 2 years it will not improve with system upgrades. VG on the other hand is going to look better and better as systems upgrade and video cards take advantage of new software technology. Light, shadows, and reflections are not drawn the same in the two game. I really don't think that anyone has a system that is capable of showing off VG at it's fullest yet. I'm running a 7950 now and It's not even able to use some of the stuff that is in the engine. I believe it's the world shader that that won't let me go over 80%. Tone mapping and HDR can still cause problems or just not show. I really think there are things that are being missed in VG because of it's complexity were the graphics are concerned. But yeah, LoTRO is very pretty looking, and it's also a game that should be compared with WoW and not VG as they are as dif. as MMO's set in a fantasy would can be. Even then LoTRO is prolly more along the lines of what Chronicles of Spellborne will be then what WoW is. Trying to make comparisons between these two games is like trying to make a comparison over wich is better, Madden or NBA streets; both are sports titles but not neccasarily sitting in the same market. VG is a sandbox game more akin to UO with a non linear progression and LoTRO is based on a pre existing IP, restricted in the things they can do and linear. These two games appeal to vastly different markets, one is casual centric while the other is designed to appeal to the hardcore MMO player. One is building to compete directly with WoW while the other is here to fill a niche market.
This is where someone finally points out why the game runs poorly for alot of people, the graphics are far far far advanced. They built it this way to make sure it looked up to date in a year , most players load the game assume they can crank the graphics they beghin play and the hitching and such begins , they blame the game engine , the developer or anything else but the real cause.... their PC. I have 2 pcs 1 at work which runs Vanguard almost flawlessly on medium with bump mapping on with the exception of running through large cities where I lose a good 10-15 fps from my standard 35-50 base whoc is just fine by me, at home my pc is much older so I know its limitations and I cranked the effects right down to get a playable performance , not lovely by any means but I can get by and group just fine. I do not blame anyone but my poor pc for performance. FYI for you new Vista runners it takes over 1 gig of ram just to run the gui of VISTA ( beyond all the other resource hogging applications that run along with it in gbackgroundas it was not produced to be a gaming OS so if you go out and buy a new pc with vista and 1.5gig of ram or even 2gig you are gonna be disappointed and again not anyones fault but your pcs. Vanuguard has some issues still but far less then original release, I love it and plan to continue.
Bout time someone agreed with me. Been spouting off about this stuff for what feels like forever.
My favoritest thing in the world is to read a post by some guy that claims that his high end rig can't run a game so the game is broken, but never post any info on his machine. Like a Dxdiag, Can't you run one of these, and doesn't it show what you're packing?
I'm not buying a 360 or a PS3; don't really care to own any nintendo products, but could you imagine if I got all up in arms that Madden '07 didn't look as good on my PS2 as it does on the PS3?
People, you're agruing over the choice to use bright vibrant pastels or darker hues in a traditional oil color medium.
It's like, vid cards have architecture in them that is capable of displaying dif. things; and I don't think that most of the cards on the market are all the way there yet. I think that things like DX10 and cell processor, I mean whatever Nvidia is calling there version of cell processing, are going to have an impact on VG.
Think about this:
A lot of that lag that you get when your out running around or crossing chunks is partially caused by your CPU trying to process the gigs of information all at once, and your Gfx cards single processor trying to render it.. It bogs it down causing things to get a little choppy. In a couple of years most people will be using Gfx cards that take over some of the processing that your CPU normally does through cell proecessing. Hundreds of small processors all working on different things at once, freeing up your CPU to do it's job more efficiently. These are the kinds of cards VG is planned for, and LoTRO won't be able to utilize without overhauling thier engine. In 2 years LoTRO will be like WoW is today, graphically outdated. Now this is speculation of course, I have no idea what the LoTRO engine is capable of, and I make these speculations off the things I gather reading reviews and posts by people in beta. I can't see a game that can run as well as people say it runs on mid to lower grade systems of today being up to utilizing the architecture of Gfx cards in 2 years.
Artistically speaking I'm not for the LoTRO art direction. It's more of the same stuff I've been seeing, and I've never been a fan of carebear fantasy art. Middle earth isn't a fuzzy and warm place, full of vibrant color and glamour. Middle earth is a war torn and scarred place, plagued with the in fighting of demi-gods. Turbine is butchering the world that Tolkien built for the sake of allowing it to run on more systems. Hey, may sound dorky but I love those books, and the silmarillion is possibly the best book I've ever read.
Maybe next time take your screens of vanguard with all the settings maxed lol .
Again, the screens are from the developers of Vanguard, it is their marketing shots sent to sites like this one to promote their game.. Are you telling everyone on MMORPG.com that the people that programmed Vanguard does not have computers strong enough to play Vanguard? Ooooook, I hope that is only your opinion and not somehting widespread.
We all know exactly how Vanguard looks, on any setting. We all do. Stop being ashamed for it, stop trying to come up with some farfetched excuses. Just accept and be proud of what you play, exactly like it looks and how it plays. Making stuff up only make the game look bad
Like i said Harafnir your opinion means nothing to me i could give one s----what you think are good graphic's LotR looks awesome but so does vanguard and anyone who cant admit it is just a SOE hating basher and am not playing a WOW clone like LotR on my 4000$ computer . i dont know who took them and i dont care they look nothing like vanguard does on my 24 inch wide screen dell with every setting maxed at 1920 x1200 and before you whine about the type of computer i run vanguard on i built it to play the games of the future
Sorry I just heard "Blah blah blah, insult insult insults, I have an overactive imagination"
All I heard was "look at my puter." And it's not Harafnir's opinion...those ARE the shots from the creators of the game...how can that statement of fact be an opinion
Artistically speaking I'm not for the LoTRO art direction. It's more of the same stuff I've been seeing, and
well, that's true, but guess why? that's because Turbine have license for Lord of the Rings and trust me, they wouldn't have it for long if they went all crazy with the design and art
after all, it's Middle-Earth, the first real fantasy as we know it in the history of literature, so everything you've seen before is just based on the Middle-Earth
so saying that it's the same stuff you've been seeing, is a bit ridiculous, no?
Originally posted by Fariic I've never been a fan of carebear fantasy art. Middle earth isn't a fuzzy and warm place, full of vibrant color and glamour. Middle earth is a war torn and scarred place, plagued with the in fighting of demi-gods. Turbine is butchering the world that Tolkien built for the sake of allowing it to run on more systems. Hey, may sound dorky but I love those books, and the silmarillion is possibly the best book I've ever read.
hm correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that Turbine is using illustrations from lotr books and also from Tolkien himself, that's at least what I read somewhere
and the story is just at the beginning, the war is just starting and only Eriador has been released... those were still pretty calm and peaceful times, definitely not a war torn world
wait some time when the story will move on and other places will be released, I'm sure you'll get your war torn land
or do you really think that place like Shire was in war at the beginning of the story? it actually IS a warm place, just like I imagined Shire and like it was described in the books
fighting of demi-gods? I think you are mistaking Lord of the Rings with Silmarillion :P
what's the point in having super technology when you can't use it or make it look nice???
Because what you think is nice, I might think is crap, and vice versa. You might like the bright bubbly look of banjoo kazooie while I prefer the dark look of Legacy of Kain. Graphics does not equal style.
what's the point in having super technology when you can't use it or make it look nice???
Because what you think is nice, I might think is crap, and vice versa. You might like the bright bubbly look of banjoo kazooie while I prefer the dark look of Legacy of Kain. Graphics does not equal style.
yup , some people here are mistaking graphics (as technology) with design and art (style), as I said, the technology in VG is far better, but the deisgn, art and style of lotro is far superior, you don't have to like it, but objectively looking on it it's obvious
the work and 'love' of the artist is obvious much more in the design of lotro... you don't have to like Mona Lisa, but saying that the art is bad just cause you don't like it is kinda....
and in VG is obvious that they lack in department of art and design
P.S. I like Legacy of Kain ^^
P.P.S. do you honestly think that for example THIS is nice?
Comments
It's called LSD, someone slipped it into your cheerios, wait 8 hours or so and give it another shot.
ROFL.
As for this thread. I haven't played LOTR, and I stopped playing Vanguard a week back. But in VGs defense, it's a bloody huge game and having a consistently screenshot-quality art style for a world that big is pretty much impossible.
The models in lotr remind me of boxes with eyes painted on.
BTW I find your remark about the lsd highly offensive and very bland. Do you know anyone who has tripped on acid? are you aware of the severe psychological problems it causes that aren't apparent until years later? Believe me it's no joke when a good friend kills himself...RIP brother.
Wow, somehow me making a joke about the description turned into me making fun of someone killing themselves... nah, I don't think so.. you can take your guiltrip elsewhere jimmy, I've been around too long and seen too much for that to phase me.
But nice try!
Do I know anyone who has 'tripped on acid'?.. yeah, myself and pretty much everyone I grew up with, and hundreds of times. We are all fine and living healthy, wealthy lives now.
Why do people kill themselves? Every reason under the sun. And fear not, I too have experience with loss and suicide. But if you think I was eve coming closs to making fun of people killing themselves, your mind is someplace dark..
Anyway, boxes with eyes painted on? You get the block too.. cya.
It's called LSD, someone slipped it into your cheerios, wait 8 hours or so and give it another shot.
ROFL.
As for this thread. I haven't played LOTR, and I stopped playing Vanguard a week back. But in VGs defense, it's a bloody huge game and having a consistently screenshot-quality art style for a world that big is pretty much impossible.
The models in lotr remind me of boxes with eyes painted on.
BTW I find your remark about the lsd highly offensive and very bland. Do you know anyone who has tripped on acid? are you aware of the severe psychological problems it causes that aren't apparent until years later? Believe me it's no joke when a good friend kills himself...RIP brother.
Wow, somehow me making a joke about the description turned into me making fun of someone killing themselves... nah, I don't think so.. you can take your guiltrip elsewhere jimmy, I've been around too long and seen too much for that to phase me.
But nice try!
Do I know anyone who has 'tripped on acid'?.. yeah, myself and pretty much everyone I grew up with, and hundreds of times. We are all fine and living healthy, wealthy lives now.
Why do people kill themselves? Every reason under the sun. And fear not, I too have experience with loss and suicide. But if you think I was eve coming closs to making fun of people killing themselves, your mind is someplace dark..
Anyway, boxes with eyes painted on? You get the block too.. cya.
I think he was speaking of how there is a 2d background far off in the distance in LotR i.e. everything in the distance is not rendered in 3d but is an imposter 2d background, thus his comment about being in a vividly painted box.
Not knocking VSOH... but the environment artist who mapped the texture to the rock the character is standing on in the third screenshot needs more sleep, more training or more time.
That is just... bad. I could almost see it if they were aiming at lowering rendering overhead by using larger, less detailed textures, but compared to the surrounding scenery, it looks like someone just fell asleep at the texture wheel there for a minute or two. Ouch.
And you can know that by looking at exactly 1/5th of the rock which that angle affords you? Did you just come up with that insult to flame the game? Seriously man there is no way you can tell what you just said based on that screenshot. Your lying.
You seem to have forgotten two words that are implied in his statement -- "That is just... bad. I could almost see it if they were aiming at lowering rendering overhead by using larger, less detailed textures, but compared to the surrounding scenery,(To me) it looks like someone just fell asleep at the texture wheel there for a minute or two. Ouch".
It is simply his opinion and nothing else. If it looks like that to him, how can he be lying ?
He is lying because his opinion is based on no factual evidence and he is wrong regardless, no one fell asleep making this game, he is trying to knock the game by lying and pretending he knows something about making graphics.
It's called LSD, someone slipped it into your cheerios, wait 8 hours or so and give it another shot.
ROFL.
As for this thread. I haven't played LOTR, and I stopped playing Vanguard a week back. But in VGs defense, it's a bloody huge game and having a consistently screenshot-quality art style for a world that big is pretty much impossible.
The models in lotr remind me of boxes with eyes painted on.
BTW I find your remark about the lsd highly offensive and very bland. Do you know anyone who has tripped on acid? are you aware of the severe psychological problems it causes that aren't apparent until years later? Believe me it's no joke when a good friend kills himself...RIP brother.
Wow, somehow me making a joke about the description turned into me making fun of someone killing themselves... nah, I don't think so.. you can take your guiltrip elsewhere jimmy, I've been around too long and seen too much for that to phase me.
But nice try!
Do I know anyone who has 'tripped on acid'?.. yeah, myself and pretty much everyone I grew up with, and hundreds of times. We are all fine and living healthy, wealthy lives now.
Why do people kill themselves? Every reason under the sun. And fear not, I too have experience with loss and suicide. But if you think I was eve coming closs to making fun of people killing themselves, your mind is someplace dark..
Anyway, boxes with eyes painted on? You get the block too.. cya.
I think he was speaking of how there is a 2d background far off in the distance in LotR i.e. everything in the distance is not rendered in 3d but is an imposter 2d background, thus his comment about being in a vividly painted box.
Thank you for explaining my perspective in a more valid way. I was refering to hunter s thompson. And to the other posterYou tripped on acid? That explains your hostility and desire to flame people. One of the long term effects of acid is paranoia and unexplainable beligerent hostility.
Tolkien's world had a very specific style all its own, and the artwork by men like Alan Lee and John Howe brought that world to life. The game, just like the movies that came before, follows that same art direction while bringing its own unique style to Middle Earth. The colors are vibrant, there's contrast in the world, and everything in the world not only looks more lush, but as if it has an actual purpose, and isn't just there to take up space.
For the sake of contrast, just look at the very first pair of screens. In Vanguard, the shore and the water are both the same washed out, gray tone, and all the bump mapping makes it all look like it runs together. Also, the water isn't reflecting the environment, making everything look unnatural, and as if it isn't even part of the world.
The LOTR shot, on the other hand, looks more realistic, at least in terms of immersion. The place feels alive, and organic, rather than washed out and plain.
The first one was taken during beta with a p4 3.0ghz intel, radeon x300, and 512MB ram. I think that was on high performance (it was actually called something else then but I forget what) with the clip plane and tree detail range up as high as I could make them. I happened to be riding a griffon towards a sunset behind or around widow's veil peak, home of the dwarves (thats the name of the mountain right?) behind Themnwar's shield, a big dam, which is the structure to the bottom left. Then I upgraded to 1.5 gigs of ram but otherwise the same system and the rest are from live:
in riftseekers, the sky there moves quickly and its pretty surreal. definitely one of the most memorable MMO areas I've been in.
on my horse looking at the western watch barracks in tursh
a barbarian guy up close.
Here are some Orc pictures....Martok music is the shizzle btw anyways I just think the whole Martok area is very dark and kewl.
roadwarriors; I am not lying and I most definitely know a considerable amount about the subject. I have been a graphic artist, illustrator and 3D modeler for a considerable number of years now.
When a texture is not mapped properly to an object or terrain area, it results in stretching and skewing of the texture. So rather than achieving the blended, detailed surface you desire, you get a distorted texture that does not appear as you may have desired it to.
In other screenshots, look at how the stones have textures mapped to them properly; the texture is smooth and consistent with the object edges; the texture does not appear stretched and it retains its detail. It looks like what it is supposed to be.
However, in that one screenshot, the black granite-type texture they were using has obviously been stretched to the surface area (or simply not mapped properly). In comparison to the other textures in the screenshot, it is stretched considerably and that has resulted in lost detail.
See how, in comparison with the sandy beach area in the background, the black granite appears very flat, rather than rounded more like a three dimensional object? That is also a result of a poorly mapped texture.
Do you see how the dark gray veins are stretched across the surface and stand out in harsh contrast with the light contrast of the texture? If the texture were smaller and repeated more, (or if it is simply a mapping problem that has stretched the texture out of proportion) those large veins would blend better, creating a veined surface more closely approximating granite.
Compare that surface with the large brownish stone in the screenshot below it. Do you see how the texure on the brown stone is smaller and repeated more often (or has been mapped properly to the size of the object)? Do you see how the darker veins blend better over the surface of the object? If you took the base texture on that brown stone and stretched it, you would get an effect similar to what happened with the veined granite texture in the screenshot I am referring to.
I was not literallly saying someone fell asleep while making VSoH. I was saying that in regards to that one area, they were perhaps not paying enough attention to the texture map of the object (area) or the texture itself was flawed (too large, not enough detail, etc).
It's not necessary that you believe me. Go to the Unreal web site and download the Unreal Editor 2 demo. Creat an object and a texture and play with it for a bit. You will see for yourself how the number of times a texture is repeated, its angle, rotation and the size of the texture affect the appearance of your object.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
I look at this thread and shrug.
Screenshots are screenshots, they rarely if ever has any relevance on the playing experience you're going to get yourself in my oppinion. They are used by marketing people and they are there to pull in the consumer.
I play Vanguard. I have experienced nice vistas and I have seen lots and lots of bleak uninspired deserts all around me. Is it better than Game X? I find that "better" is so subjective that it is pointless to really discuss (since, who am I to tell anybody else what their preferences are?) but I would like to make a comment about an element that I find is nice in regards to Vanguard's graphics.
I like the fact that the graphics suit the layout of the game. For me, one of the attractions of Vanguard is the huge landmass and in order for this landmass to appear huge it has to have vast areas of very similar terrain. A desert is huge if it takes a while to cross it, but a desert is a desert, it is bleak, barren, and rather level with a few dunes and some hardy reptiles or other small animals. If the environment changed dramatically from one area to the next it would not feel like one world, it would feel like tiles of varying size that was next to eachother and each was a separate mini-world of its own.
This is not an attack on World of Warcraft which I have also played and enjoyed, but WoW is an example of such a graphic layout. A distinct style for each zone so you can go from the deserts of Thousand Needles directly into the lush almost rainforest like vegetation of Feralas. It is very obvious where the zones cross over and that's one choice a developer can make.
Me personally prefer the Vanguard approach but that's not because of the individual textures or the amount of polygons, or the amount of lights casting shadows everywhere, it is because it makes the world a bit more real for me as a player. It makes a bit more sense to me and I like that.
I also like the fact that everything remains in perspective, that there is no painted background but that mountains several kilometers away are visible in the far off distance and that they will gradually grow and become more and more imposing as I ride closer. Again I like this because it feels more immersive to me.
So as I said in my opening, I really couldn't care about screenshots.
I am going to play Lord of the Rings: Online and any other MMO that sounds interesting to me and if it delivers good entertainment I'm going to keep playing it. RIght now my entertainment comes from Vanguard and one of its nice points to me is definately its graphics. And just for the record: Yes I have a very powerful computer and yes that is required to make Vanguard run and yes Vanguard propably has the least optimized graphics of any current MMO. But for me, Vanguard also has the most immersive world and that's largely due to its graphics.
*next part is PERSONAL opinion*
well, I know for myself that I'm NOT SOE hating basher, I barely know SOE and never played any game from them so I don't have any reason why to hate them, really and even so I hate the graphics of Vanguard, it's just not my taste, it looks plastic, dull and uninteresing, boring and simply ugly to me for some reason, I don't even like looking at the screenshots from VG, I almost want to 'puke' everytime I see them
P.S. for the flamers, I'm NOT saying the graphic of VG is bad, it surely has a lot of details, polygons or whatever else, but to me it just looks ugly, like they forgot to hire some artists when making VG, not only programmers
It's called LSD, someone slipped it into your cheerios, wait 8 hours or so and give it another shot.
ROFL.
As for this thread. I haven't played LOTR, and I stopped playing Vanguard a week back. But in VGs defense, it's a bloody huge game and having a consistently screenshot-quality art style for a world that big is pretty much impossible.
The models in lotr remind me of boxes with eyes painted on.
BTW I find your remark about the lsd highly offensive and very bland. Do you know anyone who has tripped on acid? are you aware of the severe psychological problems it causes that aren't apparent until years later? Believe me it's no joke when a good friend kills himself...RIP brother.
Wow, somehow me making a joke about the description turned into me making fun of someone killing themselves... nah, I don't think so.. you can take your guiltrip elsewhere jimmy, I've been around too long and seen too much for that to phase me.
But nice try!
Do I know anyone who has 'tripped on acid'?.. yeah, myself and pretty much everyone I grew up with, and hundreds of times. We are all fine and living healthy, wealthy lives now.
Why do people kill themselves? Every reason under the sun. And fear not, I too have experience with loss and suicide. But if you think I was eve coming closs to making fun of people killing themselves, your mind is someplace dark..
Anyway, boxes with eyes painted on? You get the block too.. cya.
I think he was speaking of how there is a 2d background far off in the distance in LotR i.e. everything in the distance is not rendered in 3d but is an imposter 2d background, thus his comment about being in a vividly painted box.
Thank you for explaining my perspective in a more valid way. I was refering to hunter s thompson. And to the other posterYou tripped on acid? That explains your hostility and desire to flame people. One of the long term effects of acid is paranoia and unexplainable beligerent hostility.
LOL... Hunter S Thompson.. do you even know who you are talking about?? You give me crap for mentioning LSD.. have you ever read any of his work?
You would know about the long-term effects of LSD use how? Oh yeah, your vast experience with the subject. Right. Reading your replies is great, it's good to know brainwashing is still in full effect. But brainwashed or not, you do need to work on your sense of humor.
I'm done with this thread, arguing with the mis-informed puts me on edge.
roadwarriors; I am not lying and I most definitely know a considerable amount about the subject. I have been a graphic artist, illustrator and 3D modeler for a considerable number of years now.
When a texture is not mapped properly to an object or terrain area, it results in stretching and skewing of the texture. So rather than achieving the blended, detailed surface you desire, you get a distorted texture that does not appear as you may have desired it to.
In other screenshots, look at how the stones have textures mapped to them properly; the texture is smooth and consistent with the object edges; the texture does not appear stretched and it retains its detail. It looks like what it is supposed to be.
However, in that one screenshot, the black granite-type texture they were using has obviously been stretched to the surface area (or simply not mapped properly). In comparison to the other textures in the screenshot, it is stretched considerably and that has resulted in lost detail.
See how, in comparison with the sandy beach area in the background, the black granite appears very flat, rather than rounded more like a three dimensional object? That is also a result of a poorly mapped texture.
Do you see how the dark gray veins are stretched across the surface and stand out in harsh contrast with the light contrast of the texture? If the texture were smaller and repeated more, (or if it is simply a mapping problem that has stretched the texture out of proportion) those large veins would blend better, creating a veined surface more closely approximating granite.
Compare that surface with the large brownish stone in the screenshot below it. Do you see how the texure on the brown stone is smaller and repeated more often (or has been mapped properly to the size of the object)? Do you see how the darker veins blend better over the surface of the object? If you took the base texture on that brown stone and stretched it, you would get an effect similar to what happened with the veined granite texture in the screenshot I am referring to.
I was not literallly saying someone fell asleep while making VSoH. I was saying that in regards to that one area, they were perhaps not paying enough attention to the texture map of the object (area) or the texture itself was flawed (too large, not enough detail, etc).
It's not necessary that you believe me. Go to the Unreal web site and download the Unreal Editor 2 demo. Creat an object and a texture and play with it for a bit. You will see for yourself how the number of times a texture is repeated, its angle, rotation and the size of the texture affect the appearance of your object.
Ok your disdain for a certain rock not withstanding, having played both games (if you have) which game would you say has better graphics? In terms of advanced design, not artistic or style choice. Also you must take into account the size of the two worlds, to not do so would be to compare a vase with the statue of liberty. Scale must be taken into account.
If you said that the world of Vanguard is so much bigger in size and scope that they cannot be compared, then you picked the right answer.
So, in the end, I come down on the question of "better" this way:
- LOTR is a prettier picture.
- VS is a nicer world to move around in.
I can't tell by SS, but does the sky in LoTRO move?
LoTRO looks more like GW to me. The screens make the world look restrained and linear somehow, and the character models seem strange. They use a lot of 2d textures to give a 3d feel to the characters. The only game I can really compare the character models to is the way they are done in Lineage 2, expcept that the L2 models look much better.
I can't explain it really. It's like simple 3d models with complex 2d textures to make the model look like it has more polygons in it, and lineage 2 did the same thing so that they could display hundreds of characters on screen without effecting the performance. It looks like LoTRO is doing the same thing with thier models.
In my opinion when you are compairing graphics you have to look at the complexity of the code and the technology that is used to create the images you are seeing. You can do a lot of things with simple codes and low polygons to make it look pretty but it's still graphically inferior.
I would call it static graphics. LoTRO looks pretty now but unless they overhaul the engine in 2 years it will not improve with system upgrades. VG on the other hand is going to look better and better as systems upgrade and video cards take advantage of new software technology. Light, shadows, and reflections are not drawn the same in the two game.
I really don't think that anyone has a system that is capable of showing off VG at it's fullest yet. I'm running a 7950 now and It's not even able to use some of the stuff that is in the engine. I believe it's the world shader that that won't let me go over 80%. Tone mapping and HDR can still cause problems or just not show. I really think there are things that are being missed in VG because of it's complexity were the graphics are concerned.
But yeah, LoTRO is very pretty looking, and it's also a game that should be compared with WoW and not VG as they are as dif. as MMO's set in a fantasy would can be. Even then LoTRO is prolly more along the lines of what Chronicles of Spellborne will be then what WoW is. Trying to make comparisons between these two games is like trying to make a comparison over wich is better, Madden or NBA streets; both are sports titles but not neccasarily sitting in the same market. VG is a sandbox game more akin to UO with a non linear progression and LoTRO is based on a pre existing IP, restricted in the things they can do and linear. These two games appeal to vastly different markets, one is casual centric while the other is designed to appeal to the hardcore MMO player. One is building to compete directly with WoW while the other is here to fill a niche market.
if you mean technical stuff like amount of polygons or shaders, technology and such things, then surely VG is in advantage but what's the point in having super technology when you can't use it or make it look nice??? take Final Fantasy XII for example, for the old PS2 and look how it looks... it's not about HOW ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY YOU HAVE, but HOW YOU USE IT
and as for the world size... noone really cares, cause if that's an excuse why they made it look ugly cause of big world, then they surely took a bigger bite than they could handle
I'd rather have smaller world that shows the 'love of designers' , that people put a lot of effort in it and with all the details, with nice artistic work than huge, vast world that looks bad and like it was thrown together just for the sake of it
you can make small vase look nice and also the statue of liberty, size doesn't matter, especially not in design and art, that's just stupid excuse
or can you imagine, that you'd go to a school of design and when they give you a task to make something bigger, you'd tell them that cause of the size you couldn't make it look nice like smaller works? that's ridiculous don't you think? they'd kick you out of the school sooner than you could spell 'design'
Bout time someone agreed with me. Been spouting off about this stuff for what feels like forever.
My favoritest thing in the world is to read a post by some guy that claims that his high end rig can't run a game so the game is broken, but never post any info on his machine. Like a Dxdiag, Can't you run one of these, and doesn't it show what you're packing?
I'm not buying a 360 or a PS3; don't really care to own any nintendo products, but could you imagine if I got all up in arms that Madden '07 didn't look as good on my PS2 as it does on the PS3?
People, you're agruing over the choice to use bright vibrant pastels or darker hues in a traditional oil color medium.
It's like, vid cards have architecture in them that is capable of displaying dif. things; and I don't think that most of the cards on the market are all the way there yet. I think that things like DX10 and cell processor, I mean whatever Nvidia is calling there version of cell processing, are going to have an impact on VG.
Think about this:
A lot of that lag that you get when your out running around or crossing chunks is partially caused by your CPU trying to process the gigs of information all at once, and your Gfx cards single processor trying to render it.. It bogs it down causing things to get a little choppy. In a couple of years most people will be using Gfx cards that take over some of the processing that your CPU normally does through cell proecessing. Hundreds of small processors all working on different things at once, freeing up your CPU to do it's job more efficiently. These are the kinds of cards VG is planned for, and LoTRO won't be able to utilize without overhauling thier engine. In 2 years LoTRO will be like WoW is today, graphically outdated. Now this is speculation of course, I have no idea what the LoTRO engine is capable of, and I make these speculations off the things I gather reading reviews and posts by people in beta. I can't see a game that can run as well as people say it runs on mid to lower grade systems of today being up to utilizing the architecture of Gfx cards in 2 years.
Artistically speaking I'm not for the LoTRO art direction. It's more of the same stuff I've been seeing, and I've never been a fan of carebear fantasy art. Middle earth isn't a fuzzy and warm place, full of vibrant color and glamour. Middle earth is a war torn and scarred place, plagued with the in fighting of demi-gods. Turbine is butchering the world that Tolkien built for the sake of allowing it to run on more systems. Hey, may sound dorky but I love those books, and the silmarillion is possibly the best book I've ever read.
Again, the screens are from the developers of Vanguard, it is their marketing shots sent to sites like this one to promote their game.. Are you telling everyone on MMORPG.com that the people that programmed Vanguard does not have computers strong enough to play Vanguard? Ooooook, I hope that is only your opinion and not somehting widespread.
We all know exactly how Vanguard looks, on any setting. We all do. Stop being ashamed for it, stop trying to come up with some farfetched excuses. Just accept and be proud of what you play, exactly like it looks and how it plays. Making stuff up only make the game look bad
Like i said Harafnir your opinion means nothing to me i could give one s----what you think are good graphic's LotR looks awesome but so does vanguard and anyone who cant admit it is just a SOE hating basher and am not playing a WOW clone like LotR on my 4000$ computer . i dont know who took them and i dont care they look nothing like vanguard does on my 24 inch wide screen dell with every setting maxed at 1920 x1200 and before you whine about the type of computer i run vanguard on i built it to play the games of the future
Sorry I just heard "Blah blah blah, insult insult insults, I have an overactive imagination"
All I heard was "look at my puter." And it's not Harafnir's opinion...those ARE the shots from the creators of the game...how can that statement of fact be an opinion
well, that's true, but guess why? that's because Turbine have license for Lord of the Rings and trust me, they wouldn't have it for long if they went all crazy with the design and artafter all, it's Middle-Earth, the first real fantasy as we know it in the history of literature, so everything you've seen before is just based on the Middle-Earth
so saying that it's the same stuff you've been seeing, is a bit ridiculous, no?
hm correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that Turbine is using illustrations from lotr books and also from Tolkien himself, that's at least what I read somewhereand the story is just at the beginning, the war is just starting and only Eriador has been released... those were still pretty calm and peaceful times, definitely not a war torn world
wait some time when the story will move on and other places will be released, I'm sure you'll get your war torn land
or do you really think that place like Shire was in war at the beginning of the story? it actually IS a warm place, just like I imagined Shire and like it was described in the books
fighting of demi-gods? I think you are mistaking Lord of the Rings with Silmarillion :P
In general, its environment seems richer and more alive. Vanguard seems dull and lifeless.
Because what you think is nice, I might think is crap, and vice versa. You might like the bright bubbly look of banjoo kazooie while I prefer the dark look of Legacy of Kain. Graphics does not equal style.
Because what you think is nice, I might think is crap, and vice versa. You might like the bright bubbly look of banjoo kazooie while I prefer the dark look of Legacy of Kain. Graphics does not equal style.
yup , some people here are mistaking graphics (as technology) with design and art (style), as I said, the technology in VG is far better, but the deisgn, art and style of lotro is far superior, you don't have to like it, but objectively looking on it it's obvious
the work and 'love' of the artist is obvious much more in the design of lotro... you don't have to like Mona Lisa, but saying that the art is bad just cause you don't like it is kinda....
and in VG is obvious that they lack in department of art and design
P.S. I like Legacy of Kain ^^
P.P.S. do you honestly think that for example THIS is nice?