because a lot of us cannot sit at a computer 2 to 12 hours uninterrupted living on Twinkies and relieving ourselves in diet Pepsi bottles. Maybe if I did not have a wife/child/life I could do it but as it is my extended ( more than a 15 min PUG) grouping is something for late Friday nights. I like chatting with guildies while I am playing though.
from what i have learned about mmorpgs comunitys most people like to play solo
my conclusion to this is that people are so lonely in real life that even in virtual worlds they like to have their space and peace like they are used to have in real life.
people pay to play in a game with 8 million people but then play it alone
its a fake feeling of not being alone
like when we go to the mall sunday afternoon alone , the place is packed with people but still we do all the shoping alone and feel good the have people around
how odd is this ? what kind of humans are we becomeing ? vanity , we can be really good in a single player game , but then we cant show it off
so we pay for a game where we can show off our single player game habilitys why the big majority of the people play solo MMORPGs ?
why do we even blame a game when the comunity sucs ? comunity is made of people not code.
who do we blame for humans being selfish ? thats all for now
you do a fine job cataloging and stereotyping individuals you have come across or observed. the fact you started this thread supports my statement. the simple answer, is to watch your own lane, mind your own business, and let others play the way they want to play.
you seem to ask for the answer to a supposed problem where there is none to quantify your own values on how a mmo "should" be played and question "why" when you observe the oposite of your own playstyle or observation, the answer is simple, again, watch your own lane.
can you smell that?!!...............there is nothing quite like it.....................the smell of troll in the morning............i love that smell.
You seem to be a big fan of guild wars. Which in terms of interaction is probably the closest thing to a single player MMO there is. Look up the word irony my friend.
it's called social anxiety disorder most people who play online games are able to overcome it online and act regularly and talk to people, however some people are just so messed up from the disorder they are afraid even in video game of social contact.
I imagine people solo for the same reasons that people masturbate. You could always go to a bar and pick up a fat, ugly girl to have sex with, but even though you get sex, you don't enjoy it very much and are disgusted with yourself afterwards. Grouping with lamers and kiddies is just as dissatisfying.
Maybe people in games are doing diffferent quests or different instances. Or depending on the game...just in diffferent stages. Why do i want to go waste my time on old content if thats the only group avaialble to me? Chances are I dont. How many times has one asked in a guild or clan chat if anyone wants to do something....but they dont because they all have different things they are trying to get accomplished? Even if no one liked soloing....there would still be a need for it.
Take my schedule for instance, I get home in the AM...rarely anyone on at that time. I try and try and try to get groups going usually to no avail. If soloing were not an option...Id quit the game because there would be nothing to do. That is also precisely the reason I quit EQ2 when it came out. When EQ2 came out it wasnt very solo friendly. And being me, I like to play alot and pretty much outleveled too many people on the server leaving myself no one to play with.
Theres hundreds of reasons why people solo because they have to or why they like to. Why even make a post about it? If your inteligent enough to post on these forums , it would suffice to say you are intelligent enough to come to your own conlclusion on why people like to solo or not. Of course from your opening post it isnt so apparent ....
This may have been mentioned before, I'm too lazy to browse 9 pages to check, sorry if it was.
There's been talk in both FFXI and espc WoW about this, so I know a few reasons for why some ppl like to go solo:
1. Grouping isn't their "thing", but the community is.
2. An offline game will never have the same patches, added contents, etc, as online games.
3. Wanting to decide for themselves how to use their online hours, and not let others be in charge.
4. To be able to do end-game stuff in MMOs, you usually (like in WoW) have to use several hours in one session, AND it must start at a time that suits you. (ie. Raids in WoW, and Dynamis in FFXI)
5. To do end-game stuff, 25-40 ppl might have to work together. With these amounts, there are always some quarrels, etc.
6. "I'm good enough for those experienced players, so I can't do end-game stuff" is a comment I've heard about FFXI's Dynamis.
There are more, but it's been a long night... hehe.
Originally posted by Klave To the OP. You seem to be a big fan of guild wars. Which in terms of interaction is probably the closest thing to a single player MMO there is. Look up the word irony my friend.
Solo leveling *cough* faster in almost every MMORPG *cough cough*.
i play solo most of the time as i find it easier to gain xp.when i go in dungeons i die in party as groups ive been in dont have a clue.i always speak to community and if i need help on bosses will team up so solo isnt that bad lol
Don't even think that soloing is optional it is essential.
My definition of "soloing" :
"the ability of advancing your character to the max AND stay competitive (reward wise: same gear opportunities etc) among the player base by doing PvE activities alone"
And "grouping" is the exact opposite. Also, note my emphasis on equal reward opportunities, and on PvE not PvP.
By that definition, soloing/grouping has nothing to do with socializing. You can socialize while soloing in an mmorpg, and as others have noted there are many more social activities that do not fall under "grouping".
"Grouping for an incentive" is terribly flawed IMHO. There should be no incentive or need to group.
Some would say "why group then? what's the incentive?" I tell them that if there is a need to group, or an imbalance between grouping and soloing in what is best, what is faster, what provides the best loot, people will not care for the social factor of the group at all. You get all sorts of people that can't cooperate or function in a group for multiple reasons, just because they need to be in one, and because they don't care of truly getting to know you, chances are that they will never meet you again. That's the reason for the PUGs from Hell (most of them are from Hell)
Content that requires X players to experience (raids,dungeons) adds a lot of pain to insult. I payed for that content and I want to see that content alone if I have to. On the requirements, the boxes of these games didn't state that the game requires 20 people besides you to see that content. it did say that on-line experience varies, but that was with respect to the unpredictable nature of humans, not in terms of what you can and can't do.
Raids/Dungeons should be scaled down for 1 player or X players each time as they enter the thing. In most cases those are instances so there is no problem in implementing that. The perfect implementation of that was Diablo II, the entire "world instance" would be scaled for more players. If blizzard were to add to the diablo recipe a large persistent world, an auction house system, and the polish they did on wow... you can only imagine.
To the person saying that "this prevents people from playing in groups" because of no incentives to do so, I would reply that you have to ask yourself why are you grouping in the first place in these games. And I wouldn't accept from you the reasoning "because it is the social thing to do, I'm a social person, I like people". You are doing it for other reasons that have nothing to do with the charming personality of your groupies. And if this doesn't apply to your group, it applies for the majority.
And that is because:
Groups should always form from people that you know about: How they play, what do they like, how do they think, how they react. This takes a long time and perhaps you can do that with only true real life friends, so PUGs are an aberration of these games along with most of the game clans/guilds that are formed "because ppl need a group" including raiding guilds. Only with good friends can you hope for a socially successful group, otherwise it is not "social grouping" it is "group forced labor" in the name of the gains.
In my opinion, grouping is optional in mmorpgs and soloing is essential.
To the OP:
1) Yes, most ppl do play solo. even in games like wow and EQ that have no soloable endgame. mmorpgs can be played in many ways, not being in a group doesn't mean you are alone. Being in a group doesn't mean you are sociable.
2) If you are lonely and/or antisocial in real life, playing a mmorpg will not help you, it will make things worse. Read this line many times and then stop playing and delete your character and account.
3) It's only a game. I want to play for 2 hours tops and grow my char a bit. WTF, when did we loose all sense of reason and logic w.r.t. to gaming?
from what i have learned about mmorpgs comunitys most people like to play solo
my conclusion to this is that people are so lonely in real life that even in virtual worlds they like to have their space and peace like they are used to have in real life.
people pay to play in a game with 8 million people but then play it alone
its a fake feeling of not being alone
like when we go to the mall sunday afternoon alone , the place is packed with people but still we do all the shoping alone and feel good the have people around
how odd is this ? what kind of humans are we becomeing ? vanity , we can be really good in a single player game , but then we cant show it off
so we pay for a game where we can show off our single player game habilitys why the big majority of the people play solo MMORPGs ?
why do we even blame a game when the comunity sucs ? comunity is made of people not code.
who do we blame for humans being selfish ? thats all for now
you do a fine job cataloging and stereotyping individuals you have come across or observed. the fact you started this thread supports my statement. the simple answer, is to watch your own lane, mind your own business, and let others play the way they want to play.
you seem to ask for the answer to a supposed problem where there is none to quantify your own values on how a mmo "should" be played and question "why" when you observe the oposite of your own playstyle or observation, the answer is simple, again, watch your own lane.
Hehe, very well said, but I fear that what you just wrote must come across as some alien language to the OP, judging from his posts.
Then again we see this question here now and again and I would estimate that something like 99% of those threads are just trolling.
You would have to be really ignorant or stupid, or both, to not understand what most people here have said.
Being able to read and write should put you well above the intellectual limit to understand the concept of "Not everyone likes the same things I do", and the classic "Other people have different opinions".
Making me believe the OP was well aware of the answers to his question, he just wanted to stir up trouble.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMO the amount of solo playing in MMOs is a result of players reacting to the social environment created by the game model used.
The majority of MMOs are EQ clones, that is class/level based with a high degree of itemization. Classes and especially, levels, segment the player base, making finding appropriate team members more difficult. We pay to play, not to stand around yelling LFG. Also I find the materialism created by itemization makes the goal of the game largely self-centric. Players playing the same classes are discouraged from playing together because there will be competition for the same gear.
The behaviour of the player base is somewhat like water; it will form to whatever vessel it is contained in. I found less soloing in games like Shadowbane and Eve; not surprisingly, these are not Everclones but smaller, more limited appeal niche games. Blaming the player base for the social tone of the game is, in my opinion, placing the cart before the horse. Instead look at the environment around them.
It dosnt matter how many reasons (and there all good) we give the creator of this thread he is not going to read or expect them all so why are people still here?
Monkeytroll
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion , even if it is totally wrong." (Johny Depp)
Originally posted by SonofSeth - I pay to play a MMORPG to play solo because I can't solo in a singleplayer, how can I realy solo when there is none else there to avoid
I love how everyone goes on to ask why people care that solo play is part of a game, because it doesn't affect groupers. You guys obviously don't have a whole lot of design theory under your belts. I don't know if it's been addressed already, but the answer is obvious, if no-one is looking for a group, it's difficult to find a group. If solo playing makes levelling easier then no-one will want a group. However, if there is pretty much forced grouping, everyone needs/wants to group, so finding a good group is a simple, and often rewarding, matter.
I love how everyone goes on to ask why people care that solo play is part of a game, because it doesn't affect groupers. You guys obviously don't have a whole lot of design theory under your belts. I don't know if it's been addressed already, but the answer is obvious, if no-one is looking for a group, it's difficult to find a group. If solo playing makes levelling easier then no-one will want a group. However, if there is pretty much forced grouping, everyone needs/wants to group, so finding a good group is a simple, and often rewarding, matter.
I want to see some more forced grouping games.
You are onlly partially correct. Soloing is more fun. Forced grouping games are not as successful as solo friendly games.
You are onlly partially correct. Soloing is more fun. Forced grouping games are not as successful as solo friendly games.
Damn straight! I quit CoH and DDO because of forced grouping issues, because I could have a lot more fun playing WoW and AO, which are much more solo-friendly. If I'm paying a monthly fee to play a MMO, I want to be able to play in the manner of my choosing, regardless of the time of day. Since I play a lot in the wee hours (when there are fewer players avaiulable to group with), I tend to do a lot of solo-grinding or running single-player quests. Any game that prevents me from having a reasonably good time while trying to play by myself (I'm not saying soloists should be able to solo dungeons or anything like that), won't be getting my money for long.
Currently playing: LOTRO, Rift (beta) and WoW (on occasion)
I love how everyone goes on to ask why people care that solo play is part of a game, because it doesn't affect groupers. You guys obviously don't have a whole lot of design theory under your belts. I don't know if it's been addressed already, but the answer is obvious, if no-one is looking for a group, it's difficult to find a group. If solo playing makes levelling easier then no-one will want a group. However, if there is pretty much forced grouping, everyone needs/wants to group, so finding a good group is a simple, and often rewarding, matter.
I want to see some more forced grouping games.
You are onlly partially correct. Soloing is more fun. Forced grouping games are not as successful as solo friendly games. Yeah, because that sure as hell isn't subjective.
Scanned thru the 10 pages here and it appears the OP was satisfied with the following....on page 5
Originally posted by japo
Okay....it's late at night and I'm bored so ...let's turn this around on the OP and use his style of thinking and logic...
OP....why do you group? Why would someone pay a monthly fee to socialize in a freekin' game. Are you that lame that you would pay a gaming company a monthly fee to find friends for you?
Geez...if I want to socialize I'll go clubbing or something...if I want to play a game I'll do that. I don't need "forced" friendships from a game for that....thank you very much.
Want to see how much skill you really have in a game...try to solo it. Anyone can stand around whacking a mob while getting steady heals from a group member....try completing the same quest and killing the same mob solo...that takes skill.
OP posted one last time after the above post......thank goodness....everyone have a nice day.....
I'll be soloing for the most part for all the reasons given in this unusual saga
Comments
I miss DAoC
you do a fine job cataloging and stereotyping individuals you have come across or observed. the fact you started this thread supports my statement. the simple answer, is to watch your own lane, mind your own business, and let others play the way they want to play.
you seem to ask for the answer to a supposed problem where there is none to quantify your own values on how a mmo "should" be played and question "why" when you observe the oposite of your own playstyle or observation, the answer is simple, again, watch your own lane.
can you smell that?!!...............there is nothing quite like it.....................the smell of troll in the morning............i love that smell.
To the OP.
You seem to be a big fan of guild wars. Which in terms of interaction is probably the closest thing to a single player MMO there is. Look up the word irony my friend.
Heres a thought.....
Maybe people in games are doing diffferent quests or different instances. Or depending on the game...just in diffferent stages. Why do i want to go waste my time on old content if thats the only group avaialble to me? Chances are I dont. How many times has one asked in a guild or clan chat if anyone wants to do something....but they dont because they all have different things they are trying to get accomplished? Even if no one liked soloing....there would still be a need for it.
Take my schedule for instance, I get home in the AM...rarely anyone on at that time. I try and try and try to get groups going usually to no avail. If soloing were not an option...Id quit the game because there would be nothing to do. That is also precisely the reason I quit EQ2 when it came out. When EQ2 came out it wasnt very solo friendly. And being me, I like to play alot and pretty much outleveled too many people on the server leaving myself no one to play with.
Theres hundreds of reasons why people solo because they have to or why they like to. Why even make a post about it? If your inteligent enough to post on these forums , it would suffice to say you are intelligent enough to come to your own conlclusion on why people like to solo or not. Of course from your opening post it isnt so apparent ....
This may have been mentioned before, I'm too lazy to browse 9 pages to check, sorry if it was.
There's been talk in both FFXI and espc WoW about this, so I know a few reasons for why some ppl like to go solo:
1. Grouping isn't their "thing", but the community is.
2. An offline game will never have the same patches, added contents, etc, as online games.
3. Wanting to decide for themselves how to use their online hours, and not let others be in charge.
4. To be able to do end-game stuff in MMOs, you usually (like in WoW) have to use several hours in one session, AND it must start at a time that suits you. (ie. Raids in WoW, and Dynamis in FFXI)
5. To do end-game stuff, 25-40 ppl might have to work together. With these amounts, there are always some quarrels, etc.
6. "I'm good enough for those experienced players, so I can't do end-game stuff" is a comment I've heard about FFXI's Dynamis.
There are more, but it's been a long night... hehe.
My definition of "soloing" :
"the ability of advancing your character to the max AND stay competitive (reward wise: same gear opportunities etc) among the player base by doing PvE activities alone"
And "grouping" is the exact opposite. Also, note my emphasis on equal reward opportunities, and on PvE not PvP.
By that definition, soloing/grouping has nothing to do with socializing. You can socialize while soloing in an mmorpg, and as others have noted there are many more social activities that do not fall under "grouping".
"Grouping for an incentive" is terribly flawed IMHO. There should be no incentive or need to group.
Some would say "why group then? what's the incentive?" I tell them that if there is a need to group, or an imbalance between grouping and soloing in what is best, what is faster, what provides the best loot, people will not care for the social factor of the group at all. You get all sorts of people that can't cooperate or function in a group for multiple reasons, just because they need to be in one, and because they don't care of truly getting to know you, chances are that they will never meet you again. That's the reason for the PUGs from Hell (most of them are from Hell)
Content that requires X players to experience (raids,dungeons) adds a lot of pain to insult. I payed for that content and I want to see that content alone if I have to. On the requirements, the boxes of these games didn't state that the game requires 20 people besides you to see that content. it did say that on-line experience varies, but that was with respect to the unpredictable nature of humans, not in terms of what you can and can't do.
Raids/Dungeons should be scaled down for 1 player or X players each time as they enter the thing. In most cases those are instances so there is no problem in implementing that. The perfect implementation of that was Diablo II, the entire "world instance" would be scaled for more players. If blizzard were to add to the diablo recipe a large persistent world, an auction house system, and the polish they did on wow... you can only imagine.
To the person saying that "this prevents people from playing in groups" because of no incentives to do so, I would reply that you have to ask yourself why are you grouping in the first place in these games. And I wouldn't accept from you the reasoning "because it is the social thing to do, I'm a social person, I like people". You are doing it for other reasons that have nothing to do with the charming personality of your groupies. And if this doesn't apply to your group, it applies for the majority.
And that is because:
Groups should always form from people that you know about: How they play, what do they like, how do they think, how they react. This takes a long time and perhaps you can do that with only true real life friends, so PUGs are an aberration of these games along with most of the game clans/guilds that are formed "because ppl need a group" including raiding guilds. Only with good friends can you hope for a socially successful group, otherwise it is not "social grouping" it is "group forced labor" in the name of the gains.
In my opinion, grouping is optional in mmorpgs and soloing is essential.
To the OP:
1) Yes, most ppl do play solo. even in games like wow and EQ that have no soloable endgame. mmorpgs can be played in many ways, not being in a group doesn't mean you are alone. Being in a group doesn't mean you are sociable.
2) If you are lonely and/or antisocial in real life, playing a mmorpg will not help you, it will make things worse. Read this line many times and then stop playing and delete your character and account.
3) It's only a game. I want to play for 2 hours tops and grow my char a bit. WTF, when did we loose all sense of reason and logic w.r.t. to gaming?
you do a fine job cataloging and stereotyping individuals you have come across or observed. the fact you started this thread supports my statement. the simple answer, is to watch your own lane, mind your own business, and let others play the way they want to play.
you seem to ask for the answer to a supposed problem where there is none to quantify your own values on how a mmo "should" be played and question "why" when you observe the oposite of your own playstyle or observation, the answer is simple, again, watch your own lane.
Hehe, very well said, but I fear that what you just wrote must come across as some alien language to the OP, judging from his posts.
Then again we see this question here now and again and I would estimate that something like 99% of those threads are just trolling.
You would have to be really ignorant or stupid, or both, to not understand what most people here have said.
Being able to read and write should put you well above the intellectual limit to understand the concept of "Not everyone likes the same things I do", and the classic "Other people have different opinions".
Making me believe the OP was well aware of the answers to his question, he just wanted to stir up trouble.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The majority of MMOs are EQ clones, that is class/level based with a high degree of itemization. Classes and especially, levels, segment the player base, making finding appropriate team members more difficult. We pay to play, not to stand around yelling LFG. Also I find the materialism created by itemization makes the goal of the game largely self-centric. Players playing the same classes are discouraged from playing together because there will be competition for the same gear.
The behaviour of the player base is somewhat like water; it will form to whatever vessel it is contained in. I found less soloing in games like Shadowbane and Eve; not surprisingly, these are not Everclones but smaller, more limited appeal niche games. Blaming the player base for the social tone of the game is, in my opinion, placing the cart before the horse. Instead look at the environment around them.
It dosnt matter how many reasons (and there all good) we give the creator of this thread he is not going to read or expect them all so why are people still here?
Monkeytroll
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion , even if it is totally wrong." (Johny Depp)
- neoteo you are such a tool
- Guildwars is not a MMORPG
- I pay to play a MMORPG to play solo because I can't solo in a singleplayer, how can I realy solo when there is none else there to avoid
- I play a rogue
I want to see some more forced grouping games.
Currently playing:
LOTRO, Rift (beta) and WoW (on occasion)
Scanned thru the 10 pages here and it appears the OP was satisfied with the following....on page 5
OP posted one last time after the above post......thank goodness....everyone have a nice day.....
I'll be soloing for the most part for all the reasons given in this unusual saga
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
~J. Krishnamurti