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To everyone who thinks AoC, War and Lotro is going to destroy VG
DMEnoc
Member Posts: 153
AoC = First DX10 Game (not to mention MMO). You don't want to buy a new vid card for VG? Heh, stay away from this game then. Not to mention you can be a Human. Only a human. Wow facinating stuff. The game is designed for release on consoles and hence the combat system is designed for consoles. Also figure in its a PVP oreinted game, you get yet another niche game.
War = A WoW'ish graphical game based around pvp. NICHE!!! Although it will probably due well to the fact the Warhammer game has been around forever.
LOTRO = A game that will do well at first due to its namesake. However, once the content dries up, what are they going to do? Add in some made up crap? Hate to say, this would kill the game faster then never updating the content.
Gods and Heroes = My info on this game is pretty sketchy but from what I gather this is kind of a MMORTS. I don't think it'll destroy VG either.
Out of those 4 games that you all seem to think will end Vanguard, not one is going to be a mainstream game (aside from LOTRO). The only one that has a chance to kill VG is LOTRO and I highly doubt it will. Anyway, flame away.
Comments
WAR is a WoW clone?
Lemme guess, you saw a screenshot of an orc, and said, "Hey, WoW has orcs, wtf, this game is just ripping off WoW."?
PvP doesn't automatically mean it is niche. Practically every MMORPG on the market has some form of PvP, whether it be dueling, arenas, particular areas of the world set aside for PvP, instanced content, etc. Free for all PvP, a la Shadowbane, is niche, no doubt about it, but PvP as a general gaming concept is about as niche as crafting...in order words, it's not niche but rather an integral part of any current and future MMORPG.
Now, as for will any of the 4 games you mentioned utterly destroy Vanguard and put it out of business? Of course not. MMORPGs can live forever. They're about as hard to kill as zombie ninja-pirates. The more apt question should be: "Will any of these 4 games render Vanguard meaningless?" Well, the answer to the question is certainly yes. With Vanguard's poor initial retail performance, the fact the designers themselves have said the game was released incomplete, the incredibly steep system requirements coupled with poor engine optimization, it's avowed catering to "hardcore" grinders, and the result is that Vanguard is just too damn much of a pain to play for most people.
Again, does that mean Vanguard is going to close shop like AC2? Probably not. Will it limp around at 25,000-50,000 subscribers? A very high probability, I'd say.
Your info seems to be pretty sketchy all around. Eg Warhammer actually has something more than PvP, and do you actually think that someone wouldn't play AoC if there's no Elfs or Dwarves? And if game is more pvp than pve oriented, you actually think that people won't play it? Put in some more facts, dammit
I don't think that these games would destroy VG cos there nothing much to be destroyed.... I mean, if one plays VG and likes it, he/she prolly will play it after these aforementioned games are released. I just hope for Sigil's sake that they're able to fix the bugs before end of this year.
"I actually cook my meat with nothing but my burning hatred for vegetables"
Now how wrong is my info on what races you can be in Conan?
well i dissagree AOC has such a huge fan base and the combat is different (not just the old hit and wait) and the PVP will tae a whole new level to the game and will bring in not only people looking for the new thing and the Conan name (which by itself has a huge fan base ) but briung in the hardcore PVPers
not to mention how important the guild of the game will have to be and the 120 level (80 main level 20 profession level and 20 PVP leves) and updaiting contant will be no problem with how large the Conan world is .
i see this game lasting a very long time and will be close if not the top MMO
WR is no where near a wow clone or anything close to it its graphics are true to how the characters looked in the table-top games and will be a great game the the PVPers
LOTRO will have a large starting player base due to its name no qestion about that but i think the game will do well for its self. and they are doing a good job on it and the LOTR fans out there will enjoy the game.
i plan on playing all three at one point in time or another
now i think VG will stay will good numbers of players from what i ahve heard its not that bad of a game but for me i need something different i need something new
for me it looks like DAoC and EQ mixed together not trying to bash eather of these two game sence i still play DAoC =]
AoC = will be the first true MMORPG on a console, which will bring in a whole new breed of gamers, it MIGHT also be cross platform which will also make people who own both platforms want to play together with housemates and friends without top end PCs, this game will be big imho
LOTRO = will be a niche game and not get very big at all, i was very into the whole LoTRO scene untill i heard it was being made in the same vein as D&DO which i beta tested and hated (personal preferance)
gods and heroes = not a game i have followed very closely so do not know much about this one
that being said ......
WAR = you said "A WoW'ish graphical game based around pvp. NICHE!!!" this is not really true at all, for one the graphics look very different from WoW, is based around PvP yes but there will be raiding and a whole lot of newly inovated PvE experiances that will be show stoppers and will bring in the crowd's for sure, everyone in my old WoW guild (which was 200+ accounts before i left) said they were going to be migrating to WAR and an awefull lot of people on these boards that are intrigued by the game, i belive (and i dont think i am the only one) that this game will be massive.
so in conclusion i think that AoC and WAR will both be massively mainstream and VG will be the one pushed to a niche market, but as none of the games you mentioned are out yet and VG is, we will all have to wait and see
I dont really want to get dragged into a debate such as this as to be totally honest its pointless comparing computer games unless to be honest you compare games aimed at the same market of player base. Personally i think its more likely Warhammer Online and Age of Conan are actually competing for a similar market space and player base to each other...and i sincerely hope they both do well.
With that point in mind and this is not attacking vanguard in any way shape or form but the Lord of the rings online beta's popularity and "Good Press" at present is due to the fact its engine is "solid" and its code implementation "Highly Polished".
And that alone goes to prove that above anything else it is what matters most in the first time experience the vast majority of "Average gamers" look for. Alot of other features are very much secondary to the majority of the games playing public.
I hope that vanguard's code and engine gets the attention it needs from Sigil so that the potential of the game can be opened up because it is there, but unfortunately masked by poor performance and first time technical experience thus the current online communities attitude towards it and that isnt fiction, it is fact.
Lord of the Rings online at present is one of the most polished closed beta's i have ever played and it isnt even at a LIVE release stage. For this fact alone and its compelling IP it will do very very well on release. The fact is it is launching on a solid base...the basic building blocks are there, performance, solid engine and code, playable out of the box setup and experience...World of Warcraft followed this mentality also and its subscription numbers are testament to its success.
Vanguard has offered a hell of alot of complexity and scope in its presentation moreso than seen in alot of MMORPG games, but the basic building blocks are just not there, its engine is unoptimized, it has created a mixed first impression and its code needs alot of work to bring it up to par above and beyond game issues seen with release MMORPG games due to its early release. To end on a positive if this can be rectified in a timely fashion it will limit the damage done on release and allow the game to grow and compete. But on paper presently LOTRO is a technically smoother performing application with a far higher degree of polish and presentation and as it stands due to this fact alone will see more commercial success. Vanguard has time, but a shortening window, and it needs to get its "house" in order now and get these "Basic Fundamentals" nailed down now.
Just my opinions of course but i see them reflected across alot of posts around here. And i hope i have given as substantial a view and argument as i can.
Regards
Mag
Ever notice how out of all the released games, the all have like one or two pvp servers compared to 8-10 pve servers? Yeah its niche. Most of us when we want pvp, go to our FPS games.
And for clarification, I never said War was a wow clone. I said it has wow'ish graphics.
To Mag: Like I said, LOTRO is the only game that I think will be competing in the same market as VG and I do think it will do well. I for one won't play it due to Turbine's hands on it and I am a huge fan of the books/movies. I know that I wouldn't be able to judge the game for its own merits, just on how it doesn't follow the story correctly.
To the OP...
Where to begin...
AoC, This game is attempting to change the way MMOs are played in a sense, and you are bashing on it? I guess we should all make games like EQ 1 for the next 100 years.. that would be exciting!
On to WAR
First off, WAR is NOT a WoW clone. Let me educate you on something called a timeline here...
Many years ago the Warhammer franchise is created.
Blizzard creates WoW and takes a liking to some of the artforms seen in Warhammer figurines etc... thus modeling some of their graphics after the Warhammer franchise
EA Mythic begins development of WAR and due to the fact that they want to be accurate, they make 100% sure that they stick to the artwork of the Warhammer franchise when it comes to designing the graphics for the game.
Secondly, EA Mythic made DAoC, argueably one of the best PvP MMOs on the market by people that play to PvP, not PvE. WoW is by no means a PvP game, yes it has PvP. However, it should not be classified as such, its main selling point is PvE content. WAR's design is leaning towards 80% PvP content end game.
LOTRO will do just fine. The game is solid and in its current state is much more playable than Vanguard is.
I dont know much about Gods and Heroes, I admit, therefore I have nothing to say.
I played Vanguard on launch on the FFA PvP server and was in the top 5 sorcerers on the server a few weeks in. Vanguard is nothing but a huge PvE grind, not to mention game being majorly broken. I regret buying it. However, if you are looking for a buggy game that has a HUGE XP curve then this is the game for you. *Please Note* The PvE in this game is no where near difficult... it is just ridiculously tedious to level. Its more a test of your patience to stay with the game through the grind than anything else. The devs have been quoted as saying "We want no players to reach max level within a year of release" and after my experience I believe they will make sure it happens XP nerf after XP nerf just to have things their way.
If anything is going to destroy Vanguard, it will be the devs that created it. They ignored their community during beta, kept everyone out of the loop, released patches changing major aspects of the game without fixing a damn thing, and continuously patched irrelevant issues rather than focusing on what mattered. Vanguard had amazing potential to be a great game, and even a great PvP game. However, many factors contribute to why I believe it is no longer worth my time, and I know I am not alone.
Dude are u serious?.....i mean.....you did take the doctors advice to stop inhaing your own gas right?
First off, The fact that AoC is a games based around pvp, and you can only play as human doesnt detract from it, neither does the fact that its a cross platform game. Just to put things into perspective:
People are scared of only one rance when char customization is poor, if youve read up on this game youll know that this wont be an issue.
PvP is part of EVERY succesful game (see WoW, even VG lil fanboi), the fact that PvP is a big part of the game doesnt make it niches as it has been stated that resource gathering/crafting will be useful etc etc.
Being cross platform doesnt mean its bad......plz tell me how this is bad?.....not like their using ps2 hardware here buddy....after all you were whinning over its DX10 support. BTW if youve kept up with the market youll see that DX10 compatible cards will see a fall in price by years end (maybe VG should have waited a few more months and release with less bugs and allow people some time to upgrade).
Second of all WAR is a farcry from a wow clone. Get your facts stright. The artistic style of the game is based of the table top game. Again the fact that its a pvp-centric game doesnt mean its a niche game, if the rest of the content is good people will play.......
Third of all LoTR will most likely be succesful and tbh they always have room to expand. Yes they will keep within boundaries of the lore but if you look deeply into the game, it still has much room to expand.
And lastly GnH is a game thats breaking away from the mold. This industry needs innovation (something its been severely lacking as of late). So far its looking impressive and im sure many people will give it a try.
VG had a chance to make its splash and soon enough so will these. The way i see it is that the market as a whole is fragmenting more and more as better games come out, so well see a stop to overpowering franshises like WoW in the future. And just to lay it out there....i DO think all of these games will hurt VG in the end because i believe they will hurt WoW innevitably. VG released with bad reviews and major shortfalls....im sure at some point itl get much much better....but the stigma of poor launch will stop it from ever becoming a huge game....just look at EQII. Its become much much better, but u wont see that game breaking the 1m number.
I would also like to point out a fundamental flaw with the OP's argument regarding AoC. It is designed for both DX9 and DX10, so you do not need to have a DX10 card to play it. DX10 adds nothing to the gameplay itself, only a little extra eye candy.
anyone that think WAR is a WoW clone lacks reading skillz. First, Warhammer license long before WoW. Second, you can level from all pvp. Third, there is no ganking. Fourth, the entire game is a campaign to takedown enemy cities. Fifth, WAR will have a 'Public Quest System'. Next, there wont be any dedicated healers.
Anyone that says WAR is a WoW clone seriously doesnt have any idea about that game and their posts are basically lies and garbage. this is one of the reasons I avoid the Vanguard forums like a plague. There's always some clown trying to convince everyone else that Vanguard is da bomb. guess you can expect nothing less at an MMO forum tho. people always trying to justify their $15 bucks a month I guess
Ever notice how out of all the released games, the all have like one or two pvp servers compared to 8-10 pve servers? Yeah its niche. Most of us when we want pvp, go to our FPS games.
And for clarification, I never said War was a wow clone. I said it has wow'ish graphics.
To Mag: Like I said, LOTRO is the only game that I think will be competing in the same market as VG and I do think it will do well. I for one won't play it due to Turbine's hands on it and I am a huge fan of the books/movies. I know that I wouldn't be able to judge the game for its own merits, just on how it doesn't follow the story correctly.
What're you talking about? Vanguard has no PvP on normal servers, and forced PvP on it's PvP servers. It's PvP servers are correct but it's normal servers aren't. Most MMOs with PvP servers STILL have consensual PvP on their normal servers; like City of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Dark Age of Camelot. Vanguard is odd-man out and niche when it comes to this.WAR uses consensual PvP, which is anything but niche with World of Warcraft solely stating so.
Ever notice how out of all the released games, the all have like one or two pvp servers compared to 8-10 pve servers? Yeah its niche. Most of us when we want pvp, go to our FPS games.
And for clarification, I never said War was a wow clone. I said it has wow'ish graphics.
To Mag: Like I said, LOTRO is the only game that I think will be competing in the same market as VG and I do think it will do well. I for one won't play it due to Turbine's hands on it and I am a huge fan of the books/movies. I know that I wouldn't be able to judge the game for its own merits, just on how it doesn't follow the story correctly.
What're you talking about? Vanguard has no PvP on normal servers, and forced PvP on it's PvP servers. It's PvP servers are correct but it's normal servers aren't. Most MMOs with PvP servers STILL have consensual PvP on their normal servers; like City of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Dark Age of Camelot. Vanguard is odd-man out and niche when it comes to this.WAR uses consensual PvP, which is anything but niche with World of Warcraft solely stating so.
QFT......OP needs to brush of on his reading skills or at the very least his attention span. (hides the sugar pills)
The only game that is going to "kill" Vanguard is Vanguard itself.
The only game that is going to "kill" Vanguard is Vanguard itself.
OH MY GOD. QUOTED FOR TRUTH.
OH MY GOD. QUOTED FOR TRUTH.
Actually, when you consider the Vanbois, it's more like assisted suicide.
There is also POTBS... but wait, that is an EVE clone, right?
And then there is the Chronicles of Spellborn... but wait, that is ya da ya da yada, right?
Anyways, I have this strong sense that Leareth and his pet and his alts will not be running around in Telon anymore by the end of 2007. But in one of these upcoming worlds. Dunno, just a hunch
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!
I truly find it funny that people are telling me to brush up on my reading skills when they obviouisly cannot read at all. I have never said that WAR was a WoW clone. No where. I also reiterated and clarified that point. You obviously can't read though or you would see this.
Vanguard is NOT half as bad as you people are claiming. Granted on your 486's it might be a bit slow but for people who are actually realize that when a game isn't giving you the performance you want, you need to tweak it.
Leareth will be running around in Telon until the servers shut down or until another game comes out that isn't based solely on PvP, Graphics or an IP that I know like the back of my hand.
I personally think that WAR is going to be the next big one, in terms of subscribers...
The only thing I agree with the OP about, is that it is a "WoW-ish graphical game". Lore aside (The old Warcraft rts's were originally based on Warhammer), WAR looks like it even used the same engine as WoW. It didn't, I'm just saying that it has the same look - But that works to its benefit.
In WoW though, PvPers were treated as the red-headed step child. They are in every MMO that isn't PvP based. But now, a game coming out that has the same look and feel of WoW, based entirely on PvP, and set in the Warhammer universe... Where do you think all of those WoW PvPers will go? So, as far as subscribers, I think WAR will be it for the next batch of MMOs coming out.
Anyways, back on topic, AoC, WAR, and LOTRO will not kill Vanguard. They target different crowds, and each of those crowds will play their own game. The only problem for Vanguard is that its targetted crowd may be a lot smaller than the others..
I've half a mind to bookmark this thread so I can pull it up again and say "Neener" after they've consolidated down to three servers.
I'm guessing that will be sometime in late October.
I am not even going to point out why the OP is completely wrong.
Your assumptions about the games you mentioned are a joke.
I don't feel like explaining to you why this is true because like all VG fanbois you will just reply back with nonsense and bullshit. When you try these games out for yourself, I guarentee you will be eating your words. VG has done nothing for the mmo industry, Brad has made a specticle of himself just as you have done.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
As i have been playing vanguard a lot as of late i see the game only improving in the future,.
playing eq2 and two worlds