Gameloading I am honestly beginning to believe you get paid by Blizzard. Other wise I can not fathom your rabid defense of World of Warcraft. You have this strong belief that no other game could ever possibly come close to WoW in subscription numbers. It is either blind loyalty, bought loyalty, or just plain ignorance. Records are meant to be broken. There is always someone bigger and better around the corner. That is how the world works. Blizzard isn't the only company capable of having millions of fans. Yet you seem devoted to them and think that they are.
And before you say well that history shows no one will get more subscribers. History showed no one would get more then Everquest 1 had. But we can see know that wasn't true. History doesn't always predict the future. Especially in a genre that is so new that no one has an idea where it will be in the future. Really the MMO genre has no robust history to use to predict what will happen. As broadband has become more widespread the genre has become bigger. As we the gaming age get older and our kids game and then their kids game the audience gets larger. So what makes you possibly think that No other game will catch on fire and bring new players to the MMO genre?
Turbine's history shows they aren't able to deliver a product that is good enough to acheive WOW type sub numbers.
The genre is still too new. The history doesn't matter when the genre is still expanding. Blizzard's history didn't support that they would get this many subscribers either. If you played at release you would know that. The servers always had a ton of queues they were blown away by the amount of people and had no idea. So you can't base it on history. Plus A Lord of the rings MMO has no history. Neither does a Warhammer one, or a Star Trek one, or a Stargate one, etc.
As shown by WoW the history of the genre has nothing to do with new games coming out. Each are unique do to the worlds they are being built on.
I did play WOW at release, but you know what they say about ppl that ASSume. Blizzard had a history of making great games, so their history of success was proven far before WOW was released. Turbine has a recent history of putting out 2nd rate MMOs and their subscription numbers have reflected that. I hope LOTRO is better then their last attempts, as it's a great IP and would be ashame for them to waste another strong IP.
Gameloading I am honestly beginning to believe you get paid by Blizzard. Yes, Blizzard pays me 300$ a month to come to mmorpg.com to tell everyone how great WoW is. Other wise I can not fathom your rabid defense of World of Warcraft yes, because its silly somebody doesn't jump on the "I HATE WOW!" bandwagon. You have this strong belief that no other game could ever possibly come close to WoW in subscription numbers. You see, this is EXACTLY what happens when people don't read my posts. I have NEVER EVER said that no other game could ever possibly come close to WoW in subscribtion numbers. do you know what I did say? I said that WAR won't come close to WoW in subscribtion numbers, THATS what I said.
It is either blind loyalty, bought loyalty, or just plain ignorance. its actually a lack of reading comprehension on your part. Records are meant to be broken. There is always someone bigger and better around the corner. That is how the world works. Blizzard isn't the only company capable of having millions of fans. Yet you seem devoted to them and think that they are.
And before you say well that history shows no one will get more subscribers. History showed no one would get more then Everquest 1 had. But we can see know that wasn't true. History doesn't always predict the future. Especially in a genre that is so new that no one has an idea where it will be in the future. Really the MMO genre has no robust history to use to predict what will happen. As broadband has become more widespread the genre has become bigger. As we the gaming age get older and our kids game and then their kids game the audience gets larger. So what makes you possibly think that No other game I don't think that and I never said that, don't put words in my mouth. will catch on fire and bring new players to the MMO genre?
You don't think that yet you attack every other game that is hyped and popular coming up? Do you just have something against Western MMOs? I don't understand. You have attacked LOTRO and you did attack WAR. There aren't any big threads about Age of Conan so Im not sure if you attacked that game too.
And one again you seem to be ignoring the Group dynamics that conjuctions brings ot the game. Is that do to the fact that you can't find any reason for it to be considered something different from WoW? WoW doesn't have this so no WoW combat and LOTRO combat are not the same.
WoW is also not the first game that you could jump into and play for 20 minutes. Asheron's Call was even better then World of Warcraft for this. I could portal tie to the dungeon I wanted to fight in. So when I logged in I could cast 1 spell and be in the dungeon fighting mobs and when I needed to go I could recall back to my safe point at the lifestone or my house or the guild mansion etc. So no WoW is not the first game to be casual friendly in the genre. So please come up with something else that is new to the genre.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Gameloading I am honestly beginning to believe you get paid by Blizzard. Other wise I can not fathom your rabid defense of World of Warcraft. You have this strong belief that no other game could ever possibly come close to WoW in subscription numbers. It is either blind loyalty, bought loyalty, or just plain ignorance. Records are meant to be broken. There is always someone bigger and better around the corner. That is how the world works. Blizzard isn't the only company capable of having millions of fans. Yet you seem devoted to them and think that they are.
And before you say well that history shows no one will get more subscribers. History showed no one would get more then Everquest 1 had. But we can see know that wasn't true. History doesn't always predict the future. Especially in a genre that is so new that no one has an idea where it will be in the future. Really the MMO genre has no robust history to use to predict what will happen. As broadband has become more widespread the genre has become bigger. As we the gaming age get older and our kids game and then their kids game the audience gets larger. So what makes you possibly think that No other game will catch on fire and bring new players to the MMO genre?
Turbine's history shows they aren't able to deliver a product that is good enough to acheive WOW type sub numbers.
The genre is still too new. The history doesn't matter when the genre is still expanding. Blizzard's history didn't support that they would get this many subscribers either. If you played at release you would know that. The servers always had a ton of queues they were blown away by the amount of people and had no idea. So you can't base it on history. Plus A Lord of the rings MMO has no history. Neither does a Warhammer one, or a Star Trek one, or a Stargate one, etc.
As shown by WoW the history of the genre has nothing to do with new games coming out. Each are unique do to the worlds they are being built on.
I did play WOW at release, but you know what they say about ppl that ASSume. Blizzard had a history of making great games, so their history of success was proven far before WOW was released. Turbine has a recent history of putting out 2nd rate MMOs and their subscription numbers have reflected that. I hope LOTRO is better then their last attempts, as it's a great IP and would be ashame for them to waste another strong IP.
What does DDO, AC2, or AC have to do with LOTRO? Nothing at all. To an non MMO veteran they won't even know what AC, AC2, or DDO is. So that is a mute point. When I played World of Warcraft for 2 years and spoke with people in game you know what the most popular answer was for a person previous MMO game? Diablo 2. Which isn't even a MMO. So these people as they get tired of World of Warcraft, which is inevitable even the best games eventually lose their fans interests, they will be looking for a new game to play. These people who went from Bnet to WoW won't care about the history of game developers. They aren't going to care that Turbine never had a huge hit before. They don't care that SOE destroyed SWG. They don't care who Brad Mcquaid is. These people don't give a rat's ass about the rest of the genre's history. What will get them is when they go into their local Gamestop, EBgames, Bestbuy, etc and see the box sitting there for Lord of the rings online and they say hey this looks cool.
We the MMO veterans are a vast minority of the market. So most people who end up playing LOTRO are not going to care about Turbines recent history.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
WoW was the first mmo to make mmo gameplay easy and accessible. Then you proceed to downplay LOTR's small unique traits.
Your example to backup your statement was that in WoW you can log in and do BGs for 20mins and log back out.
1) BGs wasn't in launch.
2) You could do the same thing in DAOC.
Unique? I think not. WoW is a casual game moreso then other games of it's time but you can't honestly act like WoW has unique traits and LOTRs traits are pathetic.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Gameloading I am honestly beginning to believe you get paid by Blizzard. Yes, Blizzard pays me 300$ a month to come to mmorpg.com to tell everyone how great WoW is. Other wise I can not fathom your rabid defense of World of Warcraft yes, because its silly somebody doesn't jump on the "I HATE WOW!" bandwagon. You have this strong belief that no other game could ever possibly come close to WoW in subscription numbers. You see, this is EXACTLY what happens when people don't read my posts. I have NEVER EVER said that no other game could ever possibly come close to WoW in subscribtion numbers. do you know what I did say? I said that WAR won't come close to WoW in subscribtion numbers, THATS what I said.
It is either blind loyalty, bought loyalty, or just plain ignorance. its actually a lack of reading comprehension on your part. Records are meant to be broken. There is always someone bigger and better around the corner. That is how the world works. Blizzard isn't the only company capable of having millions of fans. Yet you seem devoted to them and think that they are.
And before you say well that history shows no one will get more subscribers. History showed no one would get more then Everquest 1 had. But we can see know that wasn't true. History doesn't always predict the future. Especially in a genre that is so new that no one has an idea where it will be in the future. Really the MMO genre has no robust history to use to predict what will happen. As broadband has become more widespread the genre has become bigger. As we the gaming age get older and our kids game and then their kids game the audience gets larger. So what makes you possibly think that No other game I don't think that and I never said that, don't put words in my mouth. will catch on fire and bring new players to the MMO genre?
You don't think that yet you attack every other game that is hyped and popular coming up? Do you just have something against Western MMOs? I don't understand. You have attacked LOTRO and you did attack WAR. There aren't any big threads about Age of Conan so Im not sure if you attacked that game too.
oh god, here we go again. I did not attack WAR in any way or form.The only thing I said that WAR won't reach 1 million subscribers, I am not attacking the game. There are plenty of big threads about Age of Conan, and I attack AoC just as much as I attack WAR: None.
I even explained that I'm actually looking forward to WAR, I already have it pre-ordered.
And one again you seem to be ignoring the Group dynamics that conjuctions brings ot the game. Is that do to the fact that you can't find any reason for it to be considered something different from WoW? WoW doesn't have this so no WoW combat and LOTRO combat are not the same.
The conjunction system doesn't make a diffrence, its only something extra, just like it is in EQ2. Its still the age old tank and spank set up, not to mention it only really matters when your grouping. Here, I have another one for you, WoW has a skill that Everquest didnt have, so now WoW's combat is completely unique and is nothing like Everquest's. its the same bullshit.
WoW is also not the first game that you could jump into and play for 20 minutes. Asheron's Call was even better then World of Warcraft for this. I could portal tie to the dungeon I wanted to fight in. So when I logged in I could cast 1 spell and be in the dungeon fighting mobs and when I needed to go I could recall back to my safe point at the lifestone or my house or the guild mansion etc. So no WoW is not the first game to be casual friendly in the genre. So please come up with something else that is new to the genre.
Thats just your opinipn. I could NEVER accomplish the same things in AC in 20 minutes as I could in WoW, in WoW, I could pick up a quest, the quest text clearly explains what is expected of me, and be done with it in no time. not with AC. I think the real reason you come up with this is just for the heck of trying to "Diss" me. its not going to work, just give up already.
What WoW brought to the genre that was unique was accessibility. Never before was an MMO made that was so easy for anyone to get into and play ... never. Total MMO newbies could fire it up and play right from the get-go without having to learn a bunch of slash commands, macros and the like. Blizzard's genius was to take the existing general paradigm of MMOs (mostly basing this on EQ), trim out much of the tedious bits or non-user-friendly bits, don't design it so you have to be a leet computer owner to play it, and make the game as accessible as hell. That is what was unique about WoW -- it was by far and away the most accessible MMO for non-MMO players because it was designed specifically to appeal to people who had never played an MMO before.
So your big answer to all of that was..... WoW was the first mmo to make mmo gameplay easy and accessible. Then you proceed to downplay LOTR's small unique traits. exactly.
Your example to backup your statement was that in WoW you can log in and do BGs for 20mins and log back out. 1) BGs wasn't in launch. Pre-BG's, there was world pvp. the world was set up this way that there was always conflict between certain towns, such as Tarren mill and the alliance town (forgot the name, never played alliance for long). besides, they are in now, so what is your point?
2) You could do the same thing in DAOC. Really? Last time I checked, DAOC's RVR scale lasted a bit longer then 20 minutes, + it wasn't always happening.
Unique? I think not. WoW is a casual game moreso then other games of it's time but you can't honestly act like WoW has unique traits and LOTRs traits are pathetic.
Gameloading I am honestly beginning to believe you get paid by Blizzard. Other wise I can not fathom your rabid defense of World of Warcraft. You have this strong belief that no other game could ever possibly come close to WoW in subscription numbers. It is either blind loyalty, bought loyalty, or just plain ignorance. Records are meant to be broken. There is always someone bigger and better around the corner. That is how the world works. Blizzard isn't the only company capable of having millions of fans. Yet you seem devoted to them and think that they are.
And before you say well that history shows no one will get more subscribers. History showed no one would get more then Everquest 1 had. But we can see know that wasn't true. History doesn't always predict the future. Especially in a genre that is so new that no one has an idea where it will be in the future. Really the MMO genre has no robust history to use to predict what will happen. As broadband has become more widespread the genre has become bigger. As we the gaming age get older and our kids game and then their kids game the audience gets larger. So what makes you possibly think that No other game will catch on fire and bring new players to the MMO genre?
Turbine's history shows they aren't able to deliver a product that is good enough to acheive WOW type sub numbers.
The genre is still too new. The history doesn't matter when the genre is still expanding. Blizzard's history didn't support that they would get this many subscribers either. If you played at release you would know that. The servers always had a ton of queues they were blown away by the amount of people and had no idea. So you can't base it on history. Plus A Lord of the rings MMO has no history. Neither does a Warhammer one, or a Star Trek one, or a Stargate one, etc.
As shown by WoW the history of the genre has nothing to do with new games coming out. Each are unique do to the worlds they are being built on.
I did play WOW at release, but you know what they say about ppl that ASSume. Blizzard had a history of making great games, so their history of success was proven far before WOW was released. Turbine has a recent history of putting out 2nd rate MMOs and their subscription numbers have reflected that. I hope LOTRO is better then their last attempts, as it's a great IP and would be ashame for them to waste another strong IP.
Also, Blizzard's history of success game them no indication that WoW would be so big. They couldn't have expected and have stated numerous times that they didn't expect the numbers they received at launch. They were hoping for EQ1 numbers. So once again a history of success at RTS games and single player RPGs doesn't automatically mean they are going to have huge MMO numbers.
Even though Gameloading hates when I use them as an example, that would mean EA will have the largest MMO market ever. There history of success as a gaming company (85 million copies of Sims sold, 50+ million copies of Madden sold, etc.) should mean that if you are using Blizzard's history in other games as a serious indicator on predicting WoW's Success.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
it is because people could relate Warcraft to blizzard, but people can't relate WARHAMMER to EA. this is proven by the fact one of the warhammer rts games EA launched didn't became as successfull, as well as the flop of Motor city only and E&B.
Gameloading I am honestly beginning to believe you get paid by Blizzard. Yes, Blizzard pays me 300$ a month to come to mmorpg.com to tell everyone how great WoW is. Other wise I can not fathom your rabid defense of World of Warcraft yes, because its silly somebody doesn't jump on the "I HATE WOW!" bandwagon. You have this strong belief that no other game could ever possibly come close to WoW in subscription numbers. You see, this is EXACTLY what happens when people don't read my posts. I have NEVER EVER said that no other game could ever possibly come close to WoW in subscribtion numbers. do you know what I did say? I said that WAR won't come close to WoW in subscribtion numbers, THATS what I said.
It is either blind loyalty, bought loyalty, or just plain ignorance. its actually a lack of reading comprehension on your part. Records are meant to be broken. There is always someone bigger and better around the corner. That is how the world works. Blizzard isn't the only company capable of having millions of fans. Yet you seem devoted to them and think that they are.
And before you say well that history shows no one will get more subscribers. History showed no one would get more then Everquest 1 had. But we can see know that wasn't true. History doesn't always predict the future. Especially in a genre that is so new that no one has an idea where it will be in the future. Really the MMO genre has no robust history to use to predict what will happen. As broadband has become more widespread the genre has become bigger. As we the gaming age get older and our kids game and then their kids game the audience gets larger. So what makes you possibly think that No other game I don't think that and I never said that, don't put words in my mouth. will catch on fire and bring new players to the MMO genre?
You don't think that yet you attack every other game that is hyped and popular coming up? Do you just have something against Western MMOs? I don't understand. You have attacked LOTRO and you did attack WAR. There aren't any big threads about Age of Conan so Im not sure if you attacked that game too.
oh god, here we go again. I did not attack WAR in any way or form.The only thing I said that WAR won't reach 1 million subscribers, I am not attacking the game. There are plenty of big threads about Age of Conan, and I attack AoC just as much as I attack WAR: None.
I even explained that I'm actually looking forward to WAR, I already have it pre-ordered.
And one again you seem to be ignoring the Group dynamics that conjuctions brings ot the game. Is that do to the fact that you can't find any reason for it to be considered something different from WoW? WoW doesn't have this so no WoW combat and LOTRO combat are not the same.
The conjunction system doesn't make a diffrence, its only something extra, just like it is in EQ2. Its still the age old tank and spank set up, not to mention it only really matters when your grouping. Here, I have another one for you, WoW has a skill that Everquest didnt have, so now WoW's combat is completely unique and is nothing like Everquest's. its the same bullshit.
The conjuction system isn't the only thing unique. There is also the fact that there is minimal magic (ie no magic nuker class). You also gain new skills as you level for combat as opposed to more powerful versions of the skills you already have. As you walk around the world an animal mob will warn you to walk away before it attacks and if you do walk away it won't attack you. That isn't in WoW either.
WoW is also not the first game that you could jump into and play for 20 minutes. Asheron's Call was even better then World of Warcraft for this. I could portal tie to the dungeon I wanted to fight in. So when I logged in I could cast 1 spell and be in the dungeon fighting mobs and when I needed to go I could recall back to my safe point at the lifestone or my house or the guild mansion etc. So no WoW is not the first game to be casual friendly in the genre. So please come up with something else that is new to the genre.
Thats just your opinipn. I could NEVER accomplish the same things in AC in 20 minutes as I could in WoW, in WoW, I could pick up a quest, the quest text clearly explains what is expected of me, and be done with it in no time. not with AC. I think the real reason you come up with this is just for the heck of trying to "Diss" me. its not going to work, just give up already.
And that is just your opinion on WoW. There is no right answer here other hten WoW wasn't the only casual MMO and it wasn't the first casual MMO. Heck I could play any game casually if you really didn't care about what you accomplished. What Wow did add was the ability for everyone to reach the endgame. That wasn't easy prior to World of Warcraft. Before WoW reaching the endgame was something that only hardcore gamers did. The casuals had fun playing the game and never ran out of anything to do before then, because they couldn't level up fast enough to catch up to the content. So yes by making the game extremely easy to level in WoW was the first game to make it so easy that everyone could reach the endgame and could do it fairly quickly. ( I am a casual gamer, I still hit 60 on my first character in 13 days played.)
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Ok first you say 20 mins, now you say 10mins. You like to exagerate alot don't you? No, I simply made a typo, its fixed now.
WoW has one unique feature which is barely unique yet you say LOTR has unique features that are just not quite big enough for you. again, it is only barely unique in your opinion. I found it a very unique feature, and the only other MMORPG I could consider casual was City of Heroes, except for the death penalty.
Yeah I would also like to see a 20min BGs. Join WSG, AB can also only take 20 minutes if you have a good team.
DAOC RvR may take longer than 10mins (which I never stated otherwise) and for you to say that it wasn't always active. I beg to differ. your free to differ.
DAOC also allowed you to complete a quest and log off, but in an mmo is that really accomplishing much? it is in WoW, Because the whole game is build around the questing concept. Questing in WoW is REALLY rewarding, not so much in DAOC.
There is nothing overly unique about WoW, same deal with LotRO online. They are both shameless clones as you like to put it.
it is because people could relate Warcraft to blizzard, but people can't relate WARHAMMER to EA. this is proven by the fact one of the warhammer rts games EA launched didn't became as successfull, as well as the flop of Motor city only and E&B.
You don't have to relate the game to hte developer. The average consumer doesn't care about who make that product if they are familar with the product name itself.
See you can either build up a brand name like Warhammer or a company name or both. But they are not mutually exclusive. People can choose a product based on the fact that so and so makes it, or because they know the name of the product or both.
So some people might decide to try LOTRO because they love Lord of the rings or because lord of the rings is familair to them. other people might try it because they like Turbine or Midway and that is familiar to them. Same thing with Warhammer. Some people will see the EA and go hey I love them and the stuff they make, or they might see the warhammer name and say wow I love those books or games. But they don't need to say wow I sure love EA warhammer stuff.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Gameloading I am honestly beginning to believe you get paid by Blizzard. Yes, Blizzard pays me 300$ a month to come to mmorpg.com to tell everyone how great WoW is. Other wise I can not fathom your rabid defense of World of Warcraft yes, because its silly somebody doesn't jump on the "I HATE WOW!" bandwagon. You have this strong belief that no other game could ever possibly come close to WoW in subscription numbers. You see, this is EXACTLY what happens when people don't read my posts. I have NEVER EVER said that no other game could ever possibly come close to WoW in subscribtion numbers. do you know what I did say? I said that WAR won't come close to WoW in subscribtion numbers, THATS what I said.
It is either blind loyalty, bought loyalty, or just plain ignorance. its actually a lack of reading comprehension on your part. Records are meant to be broken. There is always someone bigger and better around the corner. That is how the world works. Blizzard isn't the only company capable of having millions of fans. Yet you seem devoted to them and think that they are.
And before you say well that history shows no one will get more subscribers. History showed no one would get more then Everquest 1 had. But we can see know that wasn't true. History doesn't always predict the future. Especially in a genre that is so new that no one has an idea where it will be in the future. Really the MMO genre has no robust history to use to predict what will happen. As broadband has become more widespread the genre has become bigger. As we the gaming age get older and our kids game and then their kids game the audience gets larger. So what makes you possibly think that No other game I don't think that and I never said that, don't put words in my mouth. will catch on fire and bring new players to the MMO genre?
You don't think that yet you attack every other game that is hyped and popular coming up? Do you just have something against Western MMOs? I don't understand. You have attacked LOTRO and you did attack WAR. There aren't any big threads about Age of Conan so Im not sure if you attacked that game too.
oh god, here we go again. I did not attack WAR in any way or form.The only thing I said that WAR won't reach 1 million subscribers, I am not attacking the game. There are plenty of big threads about Age of Conan, and I attack AoC just as much as I attack WAR: None.
I even explained that I'm actually looking forward to WAR, I already have it pre-ordered.
And one again you seem to be ignoring the Group dynamics that conjuctions brings ot the game. Is that do to the fact that you can't find any reason for it to be considered something different from WoW? WoW doesn't have this so no WoW combat and LOTRO combat are not the same.
The conjunction system doesn't make a diffrence, its only something extra, just like it is in EQ2. Its still the age old tank and spank set up, not to mention it only really matters when your grouping. Here, I have another one for you, WoW has a skill that Everquest didnt have, so now WoW's combat is completely unique and is nothing like Everquest's. its the same bullshit.
The conjuction system isn't the only thing unique. There is also the fact that there is minimal magic (ie no magic nuker class). You also gain new skills as you level for combat as opposed to more powerful versions of the skills you already have. As you walk around the world an animal mob will warn you to walk away before it attacks and if you do walk away it won't attack you. That isn't in WoW either.
more simple, unimportant aspects. if you gain new skills or level and improve older ones, the concept is still the same. Shall I explain to you what the lack of a magic nuker class means? diffrent graphics, because now simply another class takes the long range nuker role.
WoW is also not the first game that you could jump into and play for 20 minutes. Asheron's Call was even better then World of Warcraft for this. I could portal tie to the dungeon I wanted to fight in. So when I logged in I could cast 1 spell and be in the dungeon fighting mobs and when I needed to go I could recall back to my safe point at the lifestone or my house or the guild mansion etc. So no WoW is not the first game to be casual friendly in the genre. So please come up with something else that is new to the genre.
Thats just your opinipn. I could NEVER accomplish the same things in AC in 20 minutes as I could in WoW, in WoW, I could pick up a quest, the quest text clearly explains what is expected of me, and be done with it in no time. not with AC. I think the real reason you come up with this is just for the heck of trying to "Diss" me. its not going to work, just give up already.
And that is just your opinion on WoW. There is no right answer here other hten WoW wasn't the only casual MMO and it wasn't the first casual MMO. Heck I could play any game casually if you really didn't care about what you accomplished. the accomplishement part is exactly the point i'm trying to make.. What Wow did add was the ability for everyone to reach the endgame. That wasn't easy prior to World of Warcraft. Before WoW reaching the endgame was something that only hardcore gamers did. The casuals had fun playing the game and never ran out of anything to do before then, because they couldn't level up fast enough to catch up to the content. So yes by making the game extremely easy to level in WoW was the first game to make it so easy that everyone could reach the endgame and could do it fairly quickly. ( I am a casual gamer, I still hit 60 on my first character in 13 days played.)
Ok first you say 20 mins, now you say 10mins. You like to exagerate alot don't you? No, I simply made a typo, its fixed now.
WoW has one unique feature which is barely unique yet you say LOTR has unique features that are just not quite big enough for you. again, it is only barely unique in your opinion. I found it a very unique feature, and the only other MMORPG I could consider casual was City of Heroes, except for the death penalty.
Yeah I would also like to see a 20min BGs. Join WSG, AB can also only take 20 minutes if you have a good team.
DAOC RvR may take longer than 10mins (which I never stated otherwise) and for you to say that it wasn't always active. I beg to differ. your free to differ.
DAOC also allowed you to complete a quest and log off, but in an mmo is that really accomplishing much? it is in WoW, Because the whole game is build around the questing concept. Questing in WoW is REALLY rewarding, not so much in DAOC. Actually that is just your opinion not true. I found a lot of quests in WoW to be a waste of time. They gave rewards my class couldn't even use. Where as in DAoC the rewards for each quest are taliored to your particular class. For instance I can choose a leather item that has str buffs or dex buffs or intelligence buffs. That is extremely rewarding. If you start a new character and do the starter quests they give you a full set of armor, cloak, some weapons etc that are all for your particular class. Hmm compared to the WoW starter quests where they gave me apples that I always would sell or pies because at that low level health regenerates fast enough without needed to eat anything, yeah real REWARDING
There is nothing overly unique about WoW, same deal with LotRO online. They are both shameless clones as you like to put it.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
it is because people could relate Warcraft to blizzard, but people can't relate WARHAMMER to EA. this is proven by the fact one of the warhammer rts games EA launched didn't became as successfull, as well as the flop of Motor city only and E&B.
You don't have to relate the game to hte developer. The average consumer doesn't care about who make that product if they are familar with the product name itself.
By your theory, Warhammer RTS game would have sold millions of copies, but it didn't happen. weird eh?
See you can either build up a brand name like Warhammer or a company name or both. But they are not mutually exclusive. People can choose a product based on the fact that so and so makes it, or because they know the name of the product or both.
History proves they are.
So some people might decide to try LOTRO because they love Lord of the rings or because lord of the rings is familair to them. other people might try it because they like Turbine or Midway and that is familiar to them. Same thing with Warhammer. Some people will see the EA and go hey I love them and the stuff they make, or they might see the warhammer name and say wow I love those books or games. But they don't need to say wow I sure love EA warhammer stuff.
Ok first you say 20 mins, now you say 10mins. You like to exagerate alot don't you? No, I simply made a typo, its fixed now.
WoW has one unique feature which is barely unique yet you say LOTR has unique features that are just not quite big enough for you. again, it is only barely unique in your opinion. I found it a very unique feature, and the only other MMORPG I could consider casual was City of Heroes, except for the death penalty.
Yeah I would also like to see a 20min BGs. Join WSG, AB can also only take 20 minutes if you have a good team.
DAOC RvR may take longer than 10mins (which I never stated otherwise) and for you to say that it wasn't always active. I beg to differ. your free to differ.
DAOC also allowed you to complete a quest and log off, but in an mmo is that really accomplishing much? it is in WoW, Because the whole game is build around the questing concept. Questing in WoW is REALLY rewarding, not so much in DAOC.
There is nothing overly unique about WoW, same deal with LotRO online. They are both shameless clones as you like to put it.
My response would be something like this
And that is just your opinion on WoW. There is no right answer here other hten WoW wasn't the only casual MMO and it wasn't the first casual MMO. Heck I could play any game casually if you really didn't care about what you accomplished. What Wow did add was the ability for everyone to reach the endgame.
The only rewarding thing you get from questing in WoW is being one step closer to the endgame. Other than that..?
What makes WoW quests so rewarding compared to DAOC quests?
Ok I see a revolving pattern here.
You like WoW ALOT. Your opinions on WoW are obviously bias towards it.
I already know your next reply so don't bother answering my questions unless you feel you have to.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Gameloading I am honestly beginning to believe you get paid by Blizzard. Yes, Blizzard pays me 300$ a month to come to mmorpg.com to tell everyone how great WoW is. Other wise I can not fathom your rabid defense of World of Warcraft yes, because its silly somebody doesn't jump on the "I HATE WOW!" bandwagon. You have this strong belief that no other game could ever possibly come close to WoW in subscription numbers. You see, this is EXACTLY what happens when people don't read my posts. I have NEVER EVER said that no other game could ever possibly come close to WoW in subscribtion numbers. do you know what I did say? I said that WAR won't come close to WoW in subscribtion numbers, THATS what I said.
It is either blind loyalty, bought loyalty, or just plain ignorance. its actually a lack of reading comprehension on your part. Records are meant to be broken. There is always someone bigger and better around the corner. That is how the world works. Blizzard isn't the only company capable of having millions of fans. Yet you seem devoted to them and think that they are.
And before you say well that history shows no one will get more subscribers. History showed no one would get more then Everquest 1 had. But we can see know that wasn't true. History doesn't always predict the future. Especially in a genre that is so new that no one has an idea where it will be in the future. Really the MMO genre has no robust history to use to predict what will happen. As broadband has become more widespread the genre has become bigger. As we the gaming age get older and our kids game and then their kids game the audience gets larger. So what makes you possibly think that No other game I don't think that and I never said that, don't put words in my mouth. will catch on fire and bring new players to the MMO genre?
You don't think that yet you attack every other game that is hyped and popular coming up? Do you just have something against Western MMOs? I don't understand. You have attacked LOTRO and you did attack WAR. There aren't any big threads about Age of Conan so Im not sure if you attacked that game too.
oh god, here we go again. I did not attack WAR in any way or form.The only thing I said that WAR won't reach 1 million subscribers, I am not attacking the game. There are plenty of big threads about Age of Conan, and I attack AoC just as much as I attack WAR: None.
I even explained that I'm actually looking forward to WAR, I already have it pre-ordered.
And one again you seem to be ignoring the Group dynamics that conjuctions brings ot the game. Is that do to the fact that you can't find any reason for it to be considered something different from WoW? WoW doesn't have this so no WoW combat and LOTRO combat are not the same.
The conjunction system doesn't make a diffrence, its only something extra, just like it is in EQ2. Its still the age old tank and spank set up, not to mention it only really matters when your grouping. Here, I have another one for you, WoW has a skill that Everquest didnt have, so now WoW's combat is completely unique and is nothing like Everquest's. its the same bullshit.
The conjuction system isn't the only thing unique. There is also the fact that there is minimal magic (ie no magic nuker class). You also gain new skills as you level for combat as opposed to more powerful versions of the skills you already have. As you walk around the world an animal mob will warn you to walk away before it attacks and if you do walk away it won't attack you. That isn't in WoW either.
more simple, unimportant aspects. if you gain new skills or level and improve older ones, the concept is still the same. Shall I explain to you what the lack of a magic nuker class means? diffrent graphics, because now simply another class takes the long range nuker role.
WoW is also not the first game that you could jump into and play for 20 minutes. Asheron's Call was even better then World of Warcraft for this. I could portal tie to the dungeon I wanted to fight in. So when I logged in I could cast 1 spell and be in the dungeon fighting mobs and when I needed to go I could recall back to my safe point at the lifestone or my house or the guild mansion etc. So no WoW is not the first game to be casual friendly in the genre. So please come up with something else that is new to the genre.
Thats just your opinipn. I could NEVER accomplish the same things in AC in 20 minutes as I could in WoW, in WoW, I could pick up a quest, the quest text clearly explains what is expected of me, and be done with it in no time. not with AC. I think the real reason you come up with this is just for the heck of trying to "Diss" me. its not going to work, just give up already.
And that is just your opinion on WoW. There is no right answer here other hten WoW wasn't the only casual MMO and it wasn't the first casual MMO. Heck I could play any game casually if you really didn't care about what you accomplished. the accomplishement part is exactly the point i'm trying to make.. What Wow did add was the ability for everyone to reach the endgame. That wasn't easy prior to World of Warcraft. Before WoW reaching the endgame was something that only hardcore gamers did. The casuals had fun playing the game and never ran out of anything to do before then, because they couldn't level up fast enough to catch up to the content. So yes by making the game extremely easy to level in WoW was the first game to make it so easy that everyone could reach the endgame and could do it fairly quickly. ( I am a casual gamer, I still hit 60 on my first character in 13 days played.)
Yes in 20 minutes I could log on recall to my lifestone and kill 1-2 crystal lord on AC and get Loot that would be equivalent to raiding on WoW that takes 4-6 hours to complete and no guarentee that you get anything from your time in the dungeon.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Ok first you say 20 mins, now you say 10mins. You like to exagerate alot don't you? No, I simply made a typo, its fixed now.
WoW has one unique feature which is barely unique yet you say LOTR has unique features that are just not quite big enough for you. again, it is only barely unique in your opinion. I found it a very unique feature, and the only other MMORPG I could consider casual was City of Heroes, except for the death penalty.
Yeah I would also like to see a 20min BGs. Join WSG, AB can also only take 20 minutes if you have a good team.
DAOC RvR may take longer than 10mins (which I never stated otherwise) and for you to say that it wasn't always active. I beg to differ. your free to differ.
DAOC also allowed you to complete a quest and log off, but in an mmo is that really accomplishing much? it is in WoW, Because the whole game is build around the questing concept. Questing in WoW is REALLY rewarding, not so much in DAOC. Actually that is just your opinion not true. I found a lot of quests in WoW to be a waste of time. They gave rewards my class couldn't even use. Where as in DAoC the rewards for each quest are taliored to your particular class. For instance I can choose a leather item that has str buffs or dex buffs or intelligence buffs. That is extremely rewarding. If you start a new character and do the starter quests they give you a full set of armor, cloak, some weapons etc that are all for your particular class. Hmm compared to the WoW starter quests where they gave me apples that I always would sell or pies because at that low level health regenerates fast enough without needed to eat anything, yeah real REWARDING
There is nothing overly unique about WoW, same deal with LotRO online. They are both shameless clones as you like to put it.
Discussion is over, your starting to make things up to prove your arguement. You simply took a standpoint and will attack everything that goes against that, with made up concepts if required, because you don't want to be proven wrong. I will ignore your posts from now on, you are unable to look at this in a realistic way, not to mention you barely even read my posts and put words in my mouth.
it is because people could relate Warcraft to blizzard, but people can't relate WARHAMMER to EA. this is proven by the fact one of the warhammer rts games EA launched didn't became as successfull, as well as the flop of Motor city only and E&B.
You don't have to relate the game to hte developer. The average consumer doesn't care about who make that product if they are familar with the product name itself.
By your theory, Warhammer RTS game would have sold millions of copies, but it didn't happen. weird eh?
See you can either build up a brand name like Warhammer or a company name or both. But they are not mutually exclusive. People can choose a product based on the fact that so and so makes it, or because they know the name of the product or both.
History proves they are.
What history are you talking about? Pre WoW or post WoW? Because those are two completely different animals. You can't compare new games to how the market was 3.5 years ago. You need to compare the games to what the market is now.
So some people might decide to try LOTRO because they love Lord of the rings or because lord of the rings is familair to them. other people might try it because they like Turbine or Midway and that is familiar to them. Same thing with Warhammer. Some people will see the EA and go hey I love them and the stuff they make, or they might see the warhammer name and say wow I love those books or games. But they don't need to say wow I sure love EA warhammer stuff.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Heh, last I checked wern't you the one to take the standpoint of.... LOTR brings nothing unique to mmos, unlike everything else before it which had something unique. Then you proceeded to state mere opinions, instead of concrete facts that WoW was unique even in a small way. Discussion is over. I agree.
funny thing is, I made perfectly clear that its my oppinion, so your going to have to live with it.
Ok first you say 20 mins, now you say 10mins. You like to exagerate alot don't you? No, I simply made a typo, its fixed now.
WoW has one unique feature which is barely unique yet you say LOTR has unique features that are just not quite big enough for you. again, it is only barely unique in your opinion. I found it a very unique feature, and the only other MMORPG I could consider casual was City of Heroes, except for the death penalty.
Yeah I would also like to see a 20min BGs. Join WSG, AB can also only take 20 minutes if you have a good team.
DAOC RvR may take longer than 10mins (which I never stated otherwise) and for you to say that it wasn't always active. I beg to differ. your free to differ.
DAOC also allowed you to complete a quest and log off, but in an mmo is that really accomplishing much? it is in WoW, Because the whole game is build around the questing concept. Questing in WoW is REALLY rewarding, not so much in DAOC. Actually that is just your opinion not true. I found a lot of quests in WoW to be a waste of time. They gave rewards my class couldn't even use. Where as in DAoC the rewards for each quest are taliored to your particular class. For instance I can choose a leather item that has str buffs or dex buffs or intelligence buffs. That is extremely rewarding. If you start a new character and do the starter quests they give you a full set of armor, cloak, some weapons etc that are all for your particular class. Hmm compared to the WoW starter quests where they gave me apples that I always would sell or pies because at that low level health regenerates fast enough without needed to eat anything, yeah real REWARDING
There is nothing overly unique about WoW, same deal with LotRO online. They are both shameless clones as you like to put it.
Discussion is over, your starting to make things up to prove your arguement. You simply took a standpoint and will attack everything that goes against that, with made up concepts if required, because you don't want to be proven wrong. I will ignore your posts from now on, you are unable to look at this in a realistic way, not to mention you barely even read my posts and put words in my mouth.
goodbye sir
What did I make up? There are plenty of quests that do not give rewards for all classes in World of Warcraft. And I am playing Dark Age of camelot and their are plenty of quests that you get to choose a reward that is based on your class. So how is that making something up?
If you can't defend the great quests in your game then it is ok to admit it. But it is proven that WoW's quests are not designed to give rewards that are usuable to every class each and every time. And if you had played Dark Age of Camelot recently you would see their starter quests and how they give rewards based on your class. Later rewards do this as well. The Epic quest line is the same for many different classes but you get a unique to your class set of armor upon completion of the quest line. Artifacts will depend on whether you wnat a caster or melee or healing version of the artifact. Champion quest line gives you access to a champion weapon that is unique to your class. So how is any part of that made up?
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Comments
The genre is still too new. The history doesn't matter when the genre is still expanding. Blizzard's history didn't support that they would get this many subscribers either. If you played at release you would know that. The servers always had a ton of queues they were blown away by the amount of people and had no idea. So you can't base it on history. Plus A Lord of the rings MMO has no history. Neither does a Warhammer one, or a Star Trek one, or a Stargate one, etc.
As shown by WoW the history of the genre has nothing to do with new games coming out. Each are unique do to the worlds they are being built on.
I did play WOW at release, but you know what they say about ppl that ASSume. Blizzard had a history of making great games, so their history of success was proven far before WOW was released. Turbine has a recent history of putting out 2nd rate MMOs and their subscription numbers have reflected that. I hope LOTRO is better then their last attempts, as it's a great IP and would be ashame for them to waste another strong IP.
You don't think that yet you attack every other game that is hyped and popular coming up? Do you just have something against Western MMOs? I don't understand. You have attacked LOTRO and you did attack WAR. There aren't any big threads about Age of Conan so Im not sure if you attacked that game too.
And one again you seem to be ignoring the Group dynamics that conjuctions brings ot the game. Is that do to the fact that you can't find any reason for it to be considered something different from WoW? WoW doesn't have this so no WoW combat and LOTRO combat are not the same.
WoW is also not the first game that you could jump into and play for 20 minutes. Asheron's Call was even better then World of Warcraft for this. I could portal tie to the dungeon I wanted to fight in. So when I logged in I could cast 1 spell and be in the dungeon fighting mobs and when I needed to go I could recall back to my safe point at the lifestone or my house or the guild mansion etc. So no WoW is not the first game to be casual friendly in the genre. So please come up with something else that is new to the genre.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
The genre is still too new. The history doesn't matter when the genre is still expanding. Blizzard's history didn't support that they would get this many subscribers either. If you played at release you would know that. The servers always had a ton of queues they were blown away by the amount of people and had no idea. So you can't base it on history. Plus A Lord of the rings MMO has no history. Neither does a Warhammer one, or a Star Trek one, or a Stargate one, etc.
As shown by WoW the history of the genre has nothing to do with new games coming out. Each are unique do to the worlds they are being built on.
I did play WOW at release, but you know what they say about ppl that ASSume. Blizzard had a history of making great games, so their history of success was proven far before WOW was released. Turbine has a recent history of putting out 2nd rate MMOs and their subscription numbers have reflected that. I hope LOTRO is better then their last attempts, as it's a great IP and would be ashame for them to waste another strong IP.
What does DDO, AC2, or AC have to do with LOTRO? Nothing at all. To an non MMO veteran they won't even know what AC, AC2, or DDO is. So that is a mute point. When I played World of Warcraft for 2 years and spoke with people in game you know what the most popular answer was for a person previous MMO game? Diablo 2. Which isn't even a MMO. So these people as they get tired of World of Warcraft, which is inevitable even the best games eventually lose their fans interests, they will be looking for a new game to play. These people who went from Bnet to WoW won't care about the history of game developers. They aren't going to care that Turbine never had a huge hit before. They don't care that SOE destroyed SWG. They don't care who Brad Mcquaid is. These people don't give a rat's ass about the rest of the genre's history. What will get them is when they go into their local Gamestop, EBgames, Bestbuy, etc and see the box sitting there for Lord of the rings online and they say hey this looks cool.
We the MMO veterans are a vast minority of the market. So most people who end up playing LOTRO are not going to care about Turbines recent history.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
So your big answer to all of that was.....
WoW was the first mmo to make mmo gameplay easy and accessible. Then you proceed to downplay LOTR's small unique traits.
Your example to backup your statement was that in WoW you can log in and do BGs for 20mins and log back out.
1) BGs wasn't in launch.
2) You could do the same thing in DAOC.
Unique? I think not. WoW is a casual game moreso then other games of it's time but you can't honestly act like WoW has unique traits and LOTRs traits are pathetic.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
You don't think that yet you attack every other game that is hyped and popular coming up? Do you just have something against Western MMOs? I don't understand. You have attacked LOTRO and you did attack WAR. There aren't any big threads about Age of Conan so Im not sure if you attacked that game too.
oh god, here we go again. I did not attack WAR in any way or form.The only thing I said that WAR won't reach 1 million subscribers, I am not attacking the game. There are plenty of big threads about Age of Conan, and I attack AoC just as much as I attack WAR: None.
I even explained that I'm actually looking forward to WAR, I already have it pre-ordered.
And one again you seem to be ignoring the Group dynamics that conjuctions brings ot the game. Is that do to the fact that you can't find any reason for it to be considered something different from WoW? WoW doesn't have this so no WoW combat and LOTRO combat are not the same.
The conjunction system doesn't make a diffrence, its only something extra, just like it is in EQ2. Its still the age old tank and spank set up, not to mention it only really matters when your grouping. Here, I have another one for you, WoW has a skill that Everquest didnt have, so now WoW's combat is completely unique and is nothing like Everquest's. its the same bullshit.
WoW is also not the first game that you could jump into and play for 20 minutes. Asheron's Call was even better then World of Warcraft for this. I could portal tie to the dungeon I wanted to fight in. So when I logged in I could cast 1 spell and be in the dungeon fighting mobs and when I needed to go I could recall back to my safe point at the lifestone or my house or the guild mansion etc. So no WoW is not the first game to be casual friendly in the genre. So please come up with something else that is new to the genre.
Thats just your opinipn. I could NEVER accomplish the same things in AC in 20 minutes as I could in WoW, in WoW, I could pick up a quest, the quest text clearly explains what is expected of me, and be done with it in no time. not with AC. I think the real reason you come up with this is just for the heck of trying to "Diss" me. its not going to work, just give up already.
The genre is still too new. The history doesn't matter when the genre is still expanding. Blizzard's history didn't support that they would get this many subscribers either. If you played at release you would know that. The servers always had a ton of queues they were blown away by the amount of people and had no idea. So you can't base it on history. Plus A Lord of the rings MMO has no history. Neither does a Warhammer one, or a Star Trek one, or a Stargate one, etc.
As shown by WoW the history of the genre has nothing to do with new games coming out. Each are unique do to the worlds they are being built on.
I did play WOW at release, but you know what they say about ppl that ASSume. Blizzard had a history of making great games, so their history of success was proven far before WOW was released. Turbine has a recent history of putting out 2nd rate MMOs and their subscription numbers have reflected that. I hope LOTRO is better then their last attempts, as it's a great IP and would be ashame for them to waste another strong IP.
Also, Blizzard's history of success game them no indication that WoW would be so big. They couldn't have expected and have stated numerous times that they didn't expect the numbers they received at launch. They were hoping for EQ1 numbers. So once again a history of success at RTS games and single player RPGs doesn't automatically mean they are going to have huge MMO numbers.
Even though Gameloading hates when I use them as an example, that would mean EA will have the largest MMO market ever. There history of success as a gaming company (85 million copies of Sims sold, 50+ million copies of Madden sold, etc.) should mean that if you are using Blizzard's history in other games as a serious indicator on predicting WoW's Success.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Why must every game be compare to one another?
Is there just enough content out there to discuss rather to constantly compare and contrast?
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Ok first you say 20 mins, now you say 10mins.
You like to exagerate alot don't you?
WoW has one unique feature which is barely unique yet you say LOTR has unique features that are just not quite big enough for you.
Yeah I would also like to see a 20min BGs.
DAOC RvR may take longer than 10mins (which I never stated otherwise) and for you to say that it wasn't always active. I beg to differ.
DAOC also allowed you to complete a quest and log off, but in an mmo is that really accomplishing much?
There is nothing overly unique about WoW, same deal with LotRO online. They are both shameless clones as you like to put it.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
You don't think that yet you attack every other game that is hyped and popular coming up? Do you just have something against Western MMOs? I don't understand. You have attacked LOTRO and you did attack WAR. There aren't any big threads about Age of Conan so Im not sure if you attacked that game too.
oh god, here we go again. I did not attack WAR in any way or form.The only thing I said that WAR won't reach 1 million subscribers, I am not attacking the game. There are plenty of big threads about Age of Conan, and I attack AoC just as much as I attack WAR: None.
I even explained that I'm actually looking forward to WAR, I already have it pre-ordered.
And one again you seem to be ignoring the Group dynamics that conjuctions brings ot the game. Is that do to the fact that you can't find any reason for it to be considered something different from WoW? WoW doesn't have this so no WoW combat and LOTRO combat are not the same.
The conjunction system doesn't make a diffrence, its only something extra, just like it is in EQ2. Its still the age old tank and spank set up, not to mention it only really matters when your grouping. Here, I have another one for you, WoW has a skill that Everquest didnt have, so now WoW's combat is completely unique and is nothing like Everquest's. its the same bullshit.
The conjuction system isn't the only thing unique. There is also the fact that there is minimal magic (ie no magic nuker class). You also gain new skills as you level for combat as opposed to more powerful versions of the skills you already have. As you walk around the world an animal mob will warn you to walk away before it attacks and if you do walk away it won't attack you. That isn't in WoW either.
WoW is also not the first game that you could jump into and play for 20 minutes. Asheron's Call was even better then World of Warcraft for this. I could portal tie to the dungeon I wanted to fight in. So when I logged in I could cast 1 spell and be in the dungeon fighting mobs and when I needed to go I could recall back to my safe point at the lifestone or my house or the guild mansion etc. So no WoW is not the first game to be casual friendly in the genre. So please come up with something else that is new to the genre.
Thats just your opinipn. I could NEVER accomplish the same things in AC in 20 minutes as I could in WoW, in WoW, I could pick up a quest, the quest text clearly explains what is expected of me, and be done with it in no time. not with AC. I think the real reason you come up with this is just for the heck of trying to "Diss" me. its not going to work, just give up already.
And that is just your opinion on WoW. There is no right answer here other hten WoW wasn't the only casual MMO and it wasn't the first casual MMO. Heck I could play any game casually if you really didn't care about what you accomplished. What Wow did add was the ability for everyone to reach the endgame. That wasn't easy prior to World of Warcraft. Before WoW reaching the endgame was something that only hardcore gamers did. The casuals had fun playing the game and never ran out of anything to do before then, because they couldn't level up fast enough to catch up to the content. So yes by making the game extremely easy to level in WoW was the first game to make it so easy that everyone could reach the endgame and could do it fairly quickly. ( I am a casual gamer, I still hit 60 on my first character in 13 days played.)
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
You don't have to relate the game to hte developer. The average consumer doesn't care about who make that product if they are familar with the product name itself.
See you can either build up a brand name like Warhammer or a company name or both. But they are not mutually exclusive. People can choose a product based on the fact that so and so makes it, or because they know the name of the product or both.
So some people might decide to try LOTRO because they love Lord of the rings or because lord of the rings is familair to them. other people might try it because they like Turbine or Midway and that is familiar to them. Same thing with Warhammer. Some people will see the EA and go hey I love them and the stuff they make, or they might see the warhammer name and say wow I love those books or games. But they don't need to say wow I sure love EA warhammer stuff.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
You don't think that yet you attack every other game that is hyped and popular coming up? Do you just have something against Western MMOs? I don't understand. You have attacked LOTRO and you did attack WAR. There aren't any big threads about Age of Conan so Im not sure if you attacked that game too.
oh god, here we go again. I did not attack WAR in any way or form.The only thing I said that WAR won't reach 1 million subscribers, I am not attacking the game. There are plenty of big threads about Age of Conan, and I attack AoC just as much as I attack WAR: None.
I even explained that I'm actually looking forward to WAR, I already have it pre-ordered.
And one again you seem to be ignoring the Group dynamics that conjuctions brings ot the game. Is that do to the fact that you can't find any reason for it to be considered something different from WoW? WoW doesn't have this so no WoW combat and LOTRO combat are not the same.
The conjunction system doesn't make a diffrence, its only something extra, just like it is in EQ2. Its still the age old tank and spank set up, not to mention it only really matters when your grouping. Here, I have another one for you, WoW has a skill that Everquest didnt have, so now WoW's combat is completely unique and is nothing like Everquest's. its the same bullshit.
The conjuction system isn't the only thing unique. There is also the fact that there is minimal magic (ie no magic nuker class). You also gain new skills as you level for combat as opposed to more powerful versions of the skills you already have. As you walk around the world an animal mob will warn you to walk away before it attacks and if you do walk away it won't attack you. That isn't in WoW either.
more simple, unimportant aspects. if you gain new skills or level and improve older ones, the concept is still the same. Shall I explain to you what the lack of a magic nuker class means? diffrent graphics, because now simply another class takes the long range nuker role.
WoW is also not the first game that you could jump into and play for 20 minutes. Asheron's Call was even better then World of Warcraft for this. I could portal tie to the dungeon I wanted to fight in. So when I logged in I could cast 1 spell and be in the dungeon fighting mobs and when I needed to go I could recall back to my safe point at the lifestone or my house or the guild mansion etc. So no WoW is not the first game to be casual friendly in the genre. So please come up with something else that is new to the genre.
Thats just your opinipn. I could NEVER accomplish the same things in AC in 20 minutes as I could in WoW, in WoW, I could pick up a quest, the quest text clearly explains what is expected of me, and be done with it in no time. not with AC. I think the real reason you come up with this is just for the heck of trying to "Diss" me. its not going to work, just give up already.
And that is just your opinion on WoW. There is no right answer here other hten WoW wasn't the only casual MMO and it wasn't the first casual MMO. Heck I could play any game casually if you really didn't care about what you accomplished. the accomplishement part is exactly the point i'm trying to make.. What Wow did add was the ability for everyone to reach the endgame. That wasn't easy prior to World of Warcraft. Before WoW reaching the endgame was something that only hardcore gamers did. The casuals had fun playing the game and never ran out of anything to do before then, because they couldn't level up fast enough to catch up to the content. So yes by making the game extremely easy to level in WoW was the first game to make it so easy that everyone could reach the endgame and could do it fairly quickly. ( I am a casual gamer, I still hit 60 on my first character in 13 days played.)
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
You don't have to relate the game to hte developer. The average consumer doesn't care about who make that product if they are familar with the product name itself.
By your theory, Warhammer RTS game would have sold millions of copies, but it didn't happen. weird eh?
See you can either build up a brand name like Warhammer or a company name or both. But they are not mutually exclusive. People can choose a product based on the fact that so and so makes it, or because they know the name of the product or both.
History proves they are.
So some people might decide to try LOTRO because they love Lord of the rings or because lord of the rings is familair to them. other people might try it because they like Turbine or Midway and that is familiar to them. Same thing with Warhammer. Some people will see the EA and go hey I love them and the stuff they make, or they might see the warhammer name and say wow I love those books or games. But they don't need to say wow I sure love EA warhammer stuff.
My response would be something like this
And that is just your opinion on WoW. There is no right answer here other hten WoW wasn't the only casual MMO and it wasn't the first casual MMO. Heck I could play any game casually if you really didn't care about what you accomplished. What Wow did add was the ability for everyone to reach the endgame.
The only rewarding thing you get from questing in WoW is being one step closer to the endgame. Other than that..?
What makes WoW quests so rewarding compared to DAOC quests?
Ok I see a revolving pattern here.
You like WoW ALOT. Your opinions on WoW are obviously bias towards it.
I already know your next reply so don't bother answering my questions unless you feel you have to.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
You don't think that yet you attack every other game that is hyped and popular coming up? Do you just have something against Western MMOs? I don't understand. You have attacked LOTRO and you did attack WAR. There aren't any big threads about Age of Conan so Im not sure if you attacked that game too.
oh god, here we go again. I did not attack WAR in any way or form.The only thing I said that WAR won't reach 1 million subscribers, I am not attacking the game. There are plenty of big threads about Age of Conan, and I attack AoC just as much as I attack WAR: None.
I even explained that I'm actually looking forward to WAR, I already have it pre-ordered.
And one again you seem to be ignoring the Group dynamics that conjuctions brings ot the game. Is that do to the fact that you can't find any reason for it to be considered something different from WoW? WoW doesn't have this so no WoW combat and LOTRO combat are not the same.
The conjunction system doesn't make a diffrence, its only something extra, just like it is in EQ2. Its still the age old tank and spank set up, not to mention it only really matters when your grouping. Here, I have another one for you, WoW has a skill that Everquest didnt have, so now WoW's combat is completely unique and is nothing like Everquest's. its the same bullshit.
The conjuction system isn't the only thing unique. There is also the fact that there is minimal magic (ie no magic nuker class). You also gain new skills as you level for combat as opposed to more powerful versions of the skills you already have. As you walk around the world an animal mob will warn you to walk away before it attacks and if you do walk away it won't attack you. That isn't in WoW either.
more simple, unimportant aspects. if you gain new skills or level and improve older ones, the concept is still the same. Shall I explain to you what the lack of a magic nuker class means? diffrent graphics, because now simply another class takes the long range nuker role.
WoW is also not the first game that you could jump into and play for 20 minutes. Asheron's Call was even better then World of Warcraft for this. I could portal tie to the dungeon I wanted to fight in. So when I logged in I could cast 1 spell and be in the dungeon fighting mobs and when I needed to go I could recall back to my safe point at the lifestone or my house or the guild mansion etc. So no WoW is not the first game to be casual friendly in the genre. So please come up with something else that is new to the genre.
Thats just your opinipn. I could NEVER accomplish the same things in AC in 20 minutes as I could in WoW, in WoW, I could pick up a quest, the quest text clearly explains what is expected of me, and be done with it in no time. not with AC. I think the real reason you come up with this is just for the heck of trying to "Diss" me. its not going to work, just give up already.
And that is just your opinion on WoW. There is no right answer here other hten WoW wasn't the only casual MMO and it wasn't the first casual MMO. Heck I could play any game casually if you really didn't care about what you accomplished. the accomplishement part is exactly the point i'm trying to make.. What Wow did add was the ability for everyone to reach the endgame. That wasn't easy prior to World of Warcraft. Before WoW reaching the endgame was something that only hardcore gamers did. The casuals had fun playing the game and never ran out of anything to do before then, because they couldn't level up fast enough to catch up to the content. So yes by making the game extremely easy to level in WoW was the first game to make it so easy that everyone could reach the endgame and could do it fairly quickly. ( I am a casual gamer, I still hit 60 on my first character in 13 days played.)
Yes in 20 minutes I could log on recall to my lifestone and kill 1-2 crystal lord on AC and get Loot that would be equivalent to raiding on WoW that takes 4-6 hours to complete and no guarentee that you get anything from your time in the dungeon.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
goodbye sir
You don't have to relate the game to hte developer. The average consumer doesn't care about who make that product if they are familar with the product name itself.
By your theory, Warhammer RTS game would have sold millions of copies, but it didn't happen. weird eh?
See you can either build up a brand name like Warhammer or a company name or both. But they are not mutually exclusive. People can choose a product based on the fact that so and so makes it, or because they know the name of the product or both.
History proves they are.
What history are you talking about? Pre WoW or post WoW? Because those are two completely different animals. You can't compare new games to how the market was 3.5 years ago. You need to compare the games to what the market is now.
So some people might decide to try LOTRO because they love Lord of the rings or because lord of the rings is familair to them. other people might try it because they like Turbine or Midway and that is familiar to them. Same thing with Warhammer. Some people will see the EA and go hey I love them and the stuff they make, or they might see the warhammer name and say wow I love those books or games. But they don't need to say wow I sure love EA warhammer stuff.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Heh, last I checked wern't you the one to take the standpoint of....
LOTR brings nothing unique to mmos, unlike everything else before it which had something unique.
Then you proceeded to state mere opinions, instead of concrete facts that WoW was unique even in a small way.
Discussion is over. I agree.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
goodbye sir
What did I make up? There are plenty of quests that do not give rewards for all classes in World of Warcraft. And I am playing Dark Age of camelot and their are plenty of quests that you get to choose a reward that is based on your class. So how is that making something up?
If you can't defend the great quests in your game then it is ok to admit it. But it is proven that WoW's quests are not designed to give rewards that are usuable to every class each and every time. And if you had played Dark Age of Camelot recently you would see their starter quests and how they give rewards based on your class. Later rewards do this as well. The Epic quest line is the same for many different classes but you get a unique to your class set of armor upon completion of the quest line. Artifacts will depend on whether you wnat a caster or melee or healing version of the artifact. Champion quest line gives you access to a champion weapon that is unique to your class. So how is any part of that made up?
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)