Originally posted by Angelbound You can read it you just choose not to, dont be upset just because I might actually have a point.
Uh ok. I don't know if english is a second language for you or not. I usually don't slam people for shitty grammer but you sir, have shitty grammer. I can't make sense out of anything you say. You may have a point but it's lost in your lousy writing "style". So this won't turn into a flame-fest on grammer and syntax. I recuse myself from this thread until someone else replies that I can understand.
Originally posted by godpuppet Originally posted by hercules Much like an old fashion dumb mob i am amazed how in last 2 years we started to get people here who lack the simple ability to reason thru things. One of this is the SoE bashing. Firstly,we had the SWG changes which is a joint venture of LA/SoE yet 99% of the post are directed against SoE .Where is LA in all this?I even seen some of this bashers kissing LA butt simply because they own star wars licence and the star wars geeks know that they are only source of a new SW mmorpg for them. Then you have the vanguard issue.So many saying oh SoE ruined vanguard.Hello,SoE runs the CSR,billing,servers and publish it.The development of this game is purely sigil work.What do you want SoE to do?Print more nice looking boxes?Will that make the game better? Give them more time?Have they not done it already after M$ wanted a summer 2006 release?Vanguard had ample development time.SoE bought them some more months but i am sure like any company they don't plan to give a blank cheque to any game . Servers?What do you want them to do?The game engine is nowhere optimized .Not much you can do with servers when this happens.
ahem... To identify two of your points...
LA has been labeled as a cause to the NGE, the issue has been discussed and rediscussed. But at the end of the day Sony is responsible for making those changes, more time and effort could have been made to further ensure the NGE was smooth and that the games features met the players demands. Instead what you had was a stealth patch which durastically changed the nature of a game, changed peoples classes and further more, they did it without announcing its full changes and did it just before the pre-orders for obi wan expansions.
As for Vanguard, I dont seem to read many threads regarding SoE, people however still feel negativity towards SoE due to their actions prior, and so they should. Just becuase time has progressed, we have no reason to avoid being weary and cautious of their actions. it was due to that caution that many avoided wasting (IMO) money on Vanguard. But as you say, Sigil are responsible for the problems...
Categorizing people as "Haters" and then making a general opinion on the actions of a few can be deemed as ignorant. People dislike SoE for different reasons, and as you say, some are less justified then others. Please take that into consideration that not everyone makes rash judgements based on indecisive facts.
Much like an old fashion dumb mob i am amazed how in last 2 years we started to get people here who lack the simple ability to reason thru things. One of this is the SoE bashing. Firstly,we had the SWG changes which is a joint venture of LA/SoE yet 99% of the post are directed against SoE .Where is LA in all this?I even seen some of this bashers kissing LA butt simply because they own star wars licence and the star wars geeks know that they are only source of a new SW mmorpg for them. Then you have the vanguard issue.So many saying oh SoE ruined vanguard.Hello,SoE runs the CSR,billing,servers and publish it.The development of this game is purely sigil work.What do you want SoE to do?Print more nice looking boxes?Will that make the game better? Give them more time?Have they not done it already after M$ wanted a summer 2006 release?Vanguard had ample development time.SoE bought them some more months but i am sure like any company they don't plan to give a blank cheque to any game . Servers?What do you want them to do?The game engine is nowhere optimized .Not much you can do with servers when this happens.
Well one reason i think noone cares about LA here is that LA doesn't currently have any other MMO's out there atm, whereas SOE have several that people can have gripes with.
As far as Vanguard, I've seen just as much Sigil and Mr. Bradley McQuaid bashing on this site, MORE than the SOE bashing that is Vanguard related. In fact, I think if you look through people hating on Vanguard due to SOE, it is alot of cases of people who probably hold a grudge over a different game experience and just truly want them to fail. *shrugs* I'm not going to tell them to get over it, because whats the point of that? There's been plenty of times where a company did something that made me shy away or completely avoid their products. Sometimes it was something that had no effect on me and I did it on principle alone can you imagine that?
And I don't think you could label me an SOE hater here, as I don't think I've ever really bothered to do so. I think you are right in some cases the "mob" may not correctly place blame on all parties involved. But there may be reasons why that you just don't accept. Free will is a bitch.
Ok I went and looked at my posts and only one had miss types, and things like btw means by the way if you cannot understand why people like to shorten there typing then you do not type enough. Second of all your judgement is shitty its not poor grammer its called trying to type to fast no one is perfect and you should not expect perfect typing stop trying to be the elitist please.
If you don't agree go get a station access pass for the new price of $30 a month, and choose from the myriad of turds to play!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
People saying SOE ruined Vanguard are really out there. If it wasn't for SOE bailing Sigil's sorry broke butts out, there'd be no Vanguard. SOE saved Vanguard from the scrap heap. SOE has become a fall guy company for all the players to blame when their MMO fails. Take Gods and Heroes as an example. If it does well, SOE will get no credit. If it flops, they'll get the blame. Mark my words...
Would you kindly show us the raving success stories of SOE please? It isn't like they haven't put out clunker after clunker and earned their reputation. DC comics will be the same way as long as the management stays the same.
I was lucky enough to work with the devs in EQ2 the first 9 or so months of the game. Good people each and every one who truely wanted to make a fun game. However it was very obvious that they a) didn't understand what makes a game fun and most importantly b) were handcuffed by SOE's management time table. It was so frustrating to report bugs and have live chats with devs about crashes, dupes and other game stopping bugs and know they can't fix them before the managers timetable dictates a patch goes live. Not sure if it still happens, but patches went live 7 days after hitting test unless it crashed the entire server. No lies. That reeks of a company that doesn't care for it's player base.
It was mostly the sony timetable that causes the disasters. Even EQ, the mothership, suffered from ramped up expansion timetables so much that the players organized a boycott (see the SOE guild summit era for details) to force SoE to stop. Really has any other company been taken to task like this EVER? SWG, launched WAYYYY to early, but even the haters mostly agree this should have been one of the greatest games ever if it was given time to be finished. To bad SWG was the most mismanaged game in history, how do you screw up the biggest franchise in gaming history? EQ2 was rushed to 'destroy' Warcraft and it showed in performance all the way to lackluster play and lifeless zones. What system in the game didn't get the typical SOE combat upgrade... everything did. The game wasn't a complete dissaster at launch bug wise, though it was trying enough to drive people away. It simply wasn't good. The core philosphy of the game sucked from itemization, artifical time sinks, lack of content that worked to just about every aspect of the game. That is why SoE has spent the last 2 years mimicing other games to make EQ2 decent. They simply do not know how to make games.
They can buy titles all day long and drive them into the ground sure, but what do they really do that warrents praise?
The best I have heard is they fixed EQ2 after 2+ years to make it a decent game? (something I doubt, but maybe it hit some niche)
I think they can go suck a lemon and fall down some stairs.
How did I come to this conclusion?
I read on the forums about how they destroyed what should have been the greatest mmo in history. Sure I shouldn't listen to hear-say, but the proof is in the subscribers.
I trialed MxO, EQ2, SWG. I threw up moments later and was sent to hospital. The doctor said I caught soetitis. I was in a bad shape. I couldn't move for days.
I eventually got over the torment, after months and months of therapy. When I hear someone say the words SOE, I begin to shake and quiver in fear. The mere name is enough to frighten the proudest of lions, the fiercest of eagles and the strongest of bears.
In conclusion, eating cheese is good for you, because it is a dairy product and helps your bones because bones need calcium.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Plenty of people think. The OP obviously isn't one of them.
I never "Jumped on the bandwagon". I just started hating SOE when they shafted me with the NGE. Simple as that. Everything that had to do with it was completely and totally wrong. LA may have told them to change it, but that doesn't mean they detailed everything around the launch of the NGE, or the nearly fraudulent buisness practices created with the ToOW expansion's release. They also didn't tell them to "Release it buggy" or "Create a crappy FPS clone".
I could write pages and pages more about this. However, I for some reason feel it will be lost on you, as you've already formed your opinion on so-called "SOE haters". You can kiss my ass if you think I'm just following the popular trend and know nothing about what I'm saying.
We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment; We are choosing to be here right now -Tool, Parabola
That is why SoE has spent the last 2 years mimicing other games to make EQ2 decent. They simply do not know how to make games.
They can buy titles all day long and drive them into the ground sure, but what do they really do that warrents praise?
The best I have heard is they fixed EQ2 after 2+ years to make it a decent game? (something I doubt, but maybe it hit some niche)
I don't know who they're "mimicing" (spelled: mimicking), but I'll give them credit for improving their product over 2 years as opposed to another game company destroying their product over the past 2-3 years. Just when you thought a game couldn't get any worse, which EQ2 was still better than it at launch, they've been steadily killing it. So, good for SoE, I'm glad they're at least trying.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
I think SOE deserves every bit of the negative atention they get. A company should not up and totally remake a game once its been released. Does it get old after awhile seeing all the posts about SOE? for me sometimes it does. But then it also keeps new and old players who might not have other wise known about what happened informed.
I don't know who they're "mimicing" (spelled: mimicking), but I'll give them credit for improving their product over 2 years as opposed to another game company destroying their product over the past 2-3 years. Just when you thought a game couldn't get any worse, which EQ2 was still better than it at launch, they've been steadily killing it. So, good for SoE, I'm glad they're at least trying.
They are mimicking (better?) World of warcraft. More "solo" content, quest icon/loot rewards listed, soul bound items, etc. At launch this game wasn't even finished in its concept it was so poor. You may give credit for them "improving" a game by just imitating someone else who did things right from the start, but that seems like a pretty low standard to hold someone to.
Add to the top of that the total cost of the game between expansions the 7$ mini dungeons and "premium web portal" puts EQ2 3-5 times more than wow (or most other games) you should get more than 2 years of catch up to finally become pale imitation. Everyone loves paying more to wait for an inferior product to be changed underneath your feet. Maybe thats just the sony crowd...
As for destroying a game over 2-3 years you mean star wars galaxies I assume.
To the OP, I think SOE deserves every bit of the negative atention they get. A company should not up and totally remake a game once its been released. Does it get old after awhile seeing all the posts about SOE? for me sometimes it does. But then it also keeps new and old players who might not have other wise known about what happened informed.
True Jay and everyone else SOE is not the best company around for sure but they are still putting money into Eq2 why i don't know, i personally was a fan on Eq way back when, Eq2 i think i tryed the trial and that was it. BUT SoE still runs the planetside servers even tho there isnt that much of a pop on it anymore its still a good game, sure if u have a duel core PC it looks like you speed hack and the gfx are not the best but still new contant being adding i dont see how you can bash a whole company just because Eq2 sucks....but isnt there forum the place where you should be bashing it not on here, we all play very diffient games, i myself have just given up WOW to play city of villians again, now theres a game thats goin into a slow death, but i will be leaving it for warhammer online as i guess alot of people will be leaving there games for lord of the rings online, AoC and warhammer online so i say if you dont like a game dont bash it, dont play it, let it die..
To the OP, I think SOE deserves every bit of the negative atention they get. A company should not up and totally remake a game once its been released. Does it get old after awhile seeing all the posts about SOE? for me sometimes it does. But then it also keeps new and old players who might not have other wise known about what happened informed.
True Jay and everyone else SOE is not the best company around for sure but they are still putting money into Eq2 why i don't know, i personally was a fan on Eq way back when, Eq2 i think i tryed the trial and that was it. BUT SoE still runs the planetside servers even tho there isnt that much of a pop on it anymore its still a good game, sure if u have a duel core PC it looks like you speed hack and the gfx are not the best but still new contant being adding i dont see how you can bash a whole company just because Eq2 sucks....but isnt there forum the place where you should be bashing it not on here, we all play very diffient games, i myself have just given up WOW to play city of villians again, now theres a game thats goin into a slow death, but i will be leaving it for warhammer online as i guess alot of people will be leaving there games for lord of the rings online, AoC and warhammer online so i say if you dont like a game dont bash it, dont play it, let it die..
Cheers Doc
I have never played a SOE MMO. I'm not saying their games are bad just the company. And for me I don't care how good any of their games are. Why would I support a company with such low morals and standards or poor management. These forums seem to be a safe haven for everyone to speak on the matter without Biased censorship. Im a easy going guy most of the time, so theres no hate or anything from me towards them. why should their be i didn;t give them any of my money for SWG. Its justa matter of principle to me as a person.
I don't know who they're "mimicing" (spelled: mimicking), but I'll give them credit for improving their product over 2 years as opposed to another game company destroying their product over the past 2-3 years. Just when you thought a game couldn't get any worse, which EQ2 was still better than it at launch, they've been steadily killing it. So, good for SoE, I'm glad they're at least trying.
They are mimicking (better?) World of warcraft. More "solo" content, quest icon/loot rewards listed, soul bound items, etc. At launch this game wasn't even finished in its concept it was so poor. You may give credit for them "improving" a game by just imitating someone else who did things right from the start, but that seems like a pretty low standard to hold someone to.
Add to the top of that the total cost of the game between expansions the 7$ mini dungeons and "premium web portal" puts EQ2 3-5 times more than wow (or most other games) you should get more than 2 years of catch up to finally become pale imitation. Everyone loves paying more to wait for an inferior product to be changed underneath your feet. Maybe thats just the sony crowd...
As for destroying a game over 2-3 years you mean star wars galaxies I assume.
WoW didn’t invent solo content and EQ2 had plenty of soloable content at launch. EQ2 also had attuned items at launch, it had quest and loot rewards at launch. It sounds to me like you are listing a whole bunch of things WoW copied from EQ and EQ2 rather then the other way around.
The suggested retail price of EQ2 with *all* expansions is $39, but retailers can sell for less. Yes there is additional optional content and services you can buy, but these are just that, optional.
I don't know who they're "mimicing" (spelled: mimicking), but I'll give them credit for improving their product over 2 years as opposed to another game company destroying their product over the past 2-3 years. Just when you thought a game couldn't get any worse, which EQ2 was still better than it at launch, they've been steadily killing it. So, good for SoE, I'm glad they're at least trying.
They are mimicking (better?) World of warcraft. More "solo" content, quest icon/loot rewards listed, soul bound items, etc. At launch this game wasn't even finished in its concept it was so poor. You may give credit for them "improving" a game by just imitating someone else who did things right from the start, but that seems like a pretty low standard to hold someone to.
Add to the top of that the total cost of the game between expansions the 7$ mini dungeons and "premium web portal" puts EQ2 3-5 times more than wow (or most other games) you should get more than 2 years of catch up to finally become pale imitation. Everyone loves paying more to wait for an inferior product to be changed underneath your feet. Maybe thats just the sony crowd...
As for destroying a game over 2-3 years you mean star wars galaxies I assume.
Well, I knew you would bring WoW into this, but I didn't name names hoping you would be more clever. While "better?" would purely be an opinion, mimicking certain aspects of another game that mimicks other games is quite a jump to make. WoW has NOTHING in their game that is either revolutionary, or different, than any game before it. I do give them credit for creating a good mix of the "better?" aspects of those games that came before it. Anyone could easily say solo content came from many mmo's that came WAY before WoW came along as well as the other things you mentioned (although "soul bound" items, which they are not called in EQ2 actually comes from EQ and was in EQ2 at launch).
Considering launch, I couldn't even log into WoW AT ALL. Yeah, real great there. At least I could play EQ2. And the loot tables were horribly screwed up, as well as the quests even in newbie land, with having to loot quest items, which is still stupid in WoW. These were problems that still existed the second time I tried to play WoW many months later. Their launcher, admitted by Blizzard themselves, was the worst piece of garbage ever instituted just to launch the game in the first place. Now, after saying all that, I do give them credit for having a respectable game that pretty much anyone could play on any system. It was easy, semi-fun (without any challenge), and people could get right into the storyline, their characters, and enjoy the game. WoW had a great formula, although stolen from previous games, and with the huge advertising really launched it into the great subs it has today. I don't have any problem with the success of WoW and I'm actually grateful to them for putting MMO's on the map, and bringing tons of people into the genre that may have never even considered this type of game.
You mention the very things, although in a distasteful way (which makes me laugh), that makes EQ2 now a MUCH better game than WoW is today. While EQ2 was improving the game with updates, free and paid for, with expansions and packs, WoW spent 2 years adding tiny adjustments and twiddling their thumbs thanking all their subscribers for the money they're rolling in. They FINALLY put out their first expansion, so now they are only a quarter of the content EQ2 gives for $20-$50 less off the shelf than what you have to pay to get WoW, and the TBC expansion was the worst travesty of any game to date, great for them.
I really don't have anything against Blizzard or WoW. Their subscribers get what they get and they enjoy it, that's great. SoE has made mistakes, and I can choose to be a victim of either Blizzard or SoE, that's my choice by what I think is the best enjoyment I get for the money I pay. If I didn't like EQ2, then obviously, I wouldn't play it. I didn't like WoW, so I don't play it, but a few of my friends do, and we talk shop all the time. I watch them play and see cool stuff, and vice versa. They have fun, I have fun, and that's what is important. I don't think it is very good though to come around and spout off about something you know nothing about, especially given your "arguments", when I see a company actually making something better with customer input and trying to do what's best for their customers. EVERTHING SoE has done for EQ2, can't speak for the other games because I don't play them, has been because of customer feedback and input. I could link tons of posts on their forums of what the customer wanted, and SoE responded favorably because they want what the customer wants. This next patch coming up will be huge for gameplay, and I love being excited about the changes in the game.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
WoW didn’t invent solo content and EQ2 had plenty of soloable content at launch. EQ2 also had attuned items at launch, it had quest and loot rewards at launch. It sounds to me like you are listing a whole bunch of things WoW copied from EQ and EQ2 rather then the other way around.
The suggested retail price of EQ2 with *all* expansions is $39, but retailers can sell for less. Yes there is additional optional content and services you can buy, but these are just that, optional.
I never said blizzard invented solo play, but Sony sure had no intentions of it being any part of EQ2 at launch. If by solo content in EQ2 you mean finding a few mobs in outdoor areas to grind xp on then yes I guess it had solo content at launch. There sure was not solo oriented quests or adventuring areas. Trust me, playing on the test server where it was very hard to find groups, it really sticks out how much of the game you do not have access too. Everything, well the vast majority anyhow, was group content unless you happen to play a class that could solo "heroic" group mobs. Hell, you needed to complete group attunement quests just to get to the shared outdoor zones (zek and everfrost) when the game first came out. You can't honestly say this game was anything but solo unfriendly at launch. It wasn't even group friendly with shared xp debt.
As for soulbound items, I vividly remember the patch hitting and people flooding the test server forums blaming the testers for it going into the game. (there might have been a few items that were no trade from boss mobs, but who cares since boss mobs always dropped items 3-8 levels below your character level making them useless). Honestly, it was several months into the game when SoE changed the very nature of equiping items, and thus economy once more, or items by making everything soulbind on equip. This was NOT in the game at launch.
The base game and expansions totals how much if you bought them when they each respectively released? $200+ That same 'optional' content for WoW is free mind you except the one expansion pack.
WoW didn’t invent solo content and EQ2 had plenty of soloable content at launch. EQ2 also had attuned items at launch, it had quest and loot rewards at launch. It sounds to me like you are listing a whole bunch of things WoW copied from EQ and EQ2 rather then the other way around.
The suggested retail price of EQ2 with *all* expansions is $39, but retailers can sell for less. Yes there is additional optional content and services you can buy, but these are just that, optional.
I never said blizzard invented solo play, but Sony sure had no intentions of it being any part of EQ2 at launch. If by solo content in EQ2 you mean finding a few mobs in outdoor areas to grind xp on then yes I guess it had solo content at launch. There sure was not solo oriented quests or adventuring areas. Trust me, playing on the test server where it was very hard to find groups, it really sticks out how much of the game you do not have access too. Everything, well the vast majority anyhow, was group content unless you happen to play a class that could solo "heroic" group mobs. Hell, you needed to complete group attunement quests just to get to the shared outdoor zones (zek and everfrost) when the game first came out. You can't honestly say this game was anything but solo unfriendly at launch. It wasn't even group friendly with shared xp debt.
As for soulbound items, I vividly remember the patch hitting and people flooding the test server forums blaming the testers for it going into the game. (there might have been a few items that were no trade from boss mobs, but who cares since boss mobs always dropped items 3-8 levels below your character level making them useless). Honestly, it was several months into the game when SoE changed the very nature of equiping items, and thus economy once more, or items by making everything soulbind on equip. This was NOT in the game at launch.
The base game and expansions totals how much if you bought them when they each respectively released? $200+ That same 'optional' content for WoW is free mind you except the one expansion pack.
You are mistaken. Solo play was always intended to be part of EQ2 play as evidenced by the fact it was built into the mechanics before the game even hit beta. There have been some adjustments to how soloable some group content is and the amount of dedicated solo/duo content but that’s it. The fact that solo specific mechanics and mobs have been in the game since day one of beta makes it pretty clear that the option to solo play was always part of the design.
Then as now outdoor areas are the primary solo zones while dungeons are more group focused. In addition group content is and has always been specifically designed to be soloable once you have a few levels on it.
There was also plenty of solo content at launch, though there was the problem that it wasn’t easily identifiable before hand so people picking up all the quests would frequently run into roadblocks. However, if you selected a highly soloable class like Paladin, Monk, etc you could solo almost any of the content at launch.
You never needed to complete an access quest to get to any major outdoor zone. There were quests that followed the storyline of rediscovering zones like Zek, EL, etc and these did grant you access a few levels early but you were never forced to complete them. For example, the content in Zek and EL start at level 30, you could either wait until you were level 30 and get access automatically or you could complete a quest and get access as soon as level 25.
Attuned items were in game from the very beginning. In fact they were part of your Island of Refuge quests on launch day. What you are probably thinking of is the fact that all crafted items were changed to be attunable, which was pretty much a no brainer. Without this item sink the market for new crafted items would quickly have disappeared. This was actually an extension of the tweaking in beta that removed un-repairable item wear, which was the original item sink.
Considering launch, I couldn't even log into WoW AT ALL. Yeah, real great there. At least I could play EQ2. And the loot tables were horribly screwed up, as well as the quests even in newbie land, with having to loot quest items, which is still stupid in WoW. These were problems that still existed the second time I tried to play WoW many months later. Their launcher, admitted by Blizzard themselves, was the worst piece of garbage ever instituted just to launch the game in the first place. Now, after saying all that, I do give them credit for having a respectable game that pretty much anyone could play on any system. It was easy, semi-fun (without any challenge), and people could get right into the storyline, their characters, and enjoy the game. WoW had a great formula, although stolen from previous games, and with the huge advertising really launched it into the great subs it has today. I don't have any problem with the success of WoW and I'm actually grateful to them for putting MMO's on the map, and bringing tons of people into the genre that may have never even considered this type of game.
You mention the very things, although in a distasteful way (which makes me laugh), that makes EQ2 now a MUCH better game than WoW is today. While EQ2 was improving the game with updates, free and paid for, with expansions and packs, WoW spent 2 years adding tiny adjustments and twiddling their thumbs thanking all their subscribers for the money they're rolling in. They FINALLY put out their first expansion, so now they are only a quarter of the content EQ2 gives for $20-$50 less off the shelf than what you have to pay to get WoW, and the TBC expansion was the worst travesty of any game to date, great for them.
I really don't have anything against Blizzard or WoW. Their subscribers get what they get and they enjoy it, that's great. SoE has made mistakes, and I can choose to be a victim of either Blizzard or SoE, that's my choice by what I think is the best enjoyment I get for the money I pay. If I didn't like EQ2, then obviously, I wouldn't play it. I didn't like WoW, so I don't play it, but a few of my friends do, and we talk shop all the time. I watch them play and see cool stuff, and vice versa. They have fun, I have fun, and that's what is important. I don't think it is very good though to come around and spout off about something you know nothing about, especially given your "arguments", when I see a company actually making something better with customer input and trying to do what's best for their customers. EVERTHING SoE has done for EQ2, can't speak for the other games because I don't play them, has been because of customer feedback and input. I could link tons of posts on their forums of what the customer wanted, and SoE responded favorably because they want what the customer wants. This next patch coming up will be huge for gameplay, and I love being excited about the changes in the game.
Blizzards one shortcomming that I recall was the terrible que login times and the lack of hardware to meet the demand the game put out. Also they did often credit people with free playtime to compensate, when was the last time you saw sony pony up for their mistakes (A: never)? Yet people were willing to pay to wait in line to play a game rather than play EQ2 which had plenty of space open. There is a reason for that. There is a reason why people left in such amounts that sony already had to merge servers. EQ2 was rushed to launch to compete with WoW and was not finished in design or concept. (yes Sony moved their launch date to 2 weeks prior to WoW, just to answer whoever said that earlier) Technically EQ2 worked ok with some show stopping bugs here and there, but it just didn't make any sense. Both games are just clones of what came before so don't just pin that on WoW, every game is using the same basic MMO formula, some just do things right making them fun, others just put something out to make money. I agree that WoW isn't really a challenging game for what I like, but it sure holds a vaste amount of entertainment value and does put some positive changes to the MMO design. EQ2 did so much more wrong that the few good things they did weren't really a factor. Lets be honest that Eq2 sucked real hard at least the first year. I have no reason to believe anything is different based on my dealing with Sony.
Are you serious? Your stance is that EQ2 spent 2 years making the game better while WoW did nothing? Ok lets look at that. EQ2 got 3 xpacks at what $50 bucks each (the first of which I beta tested and was furious it went live in the state it did, that was the final straw for me). How many other mini dungeons at 5-10$ bucks each or whatever they cost now? That puts Eq2 somewhere in the 200$ dollar range just to have the extras to play with. In that same time Blizzard added Black wing lair, AQ40, AQ20 (AQ had an AWESOME world wide event for players to work together in also), Zul'gurub, Naxxaramas (again with an awesome world wide event to challenge players), Dire maul east/west/north, Arathi basin, warsong gulch and alterac valley plus whatever else I don't recall off the top of my head. All of this new content for the low low price of FREE! Not even mentioning the retail expansion for 40-50$. Just because Sony puts a pricetag on everything the decide to grace the players with doesn't make another companies accomplishments null or void because they choose to give a little respect to their players. Honestly you sound a little bit 'battered wife syndrome' claiming WoW did nothing and EQ2 did so much.
As for them taking 2 years to "make a better game" at whos expense was that? I played and got so tired of the core concepts of classes getting changed, not tweeked mind you, outright changed. Of course they would undo those changes in a couple weeks after getting so much angry feedback or not, but who wanted to play a game where everything was in a constant state of flux? So maybe it is a better game now, but who really cares. I don't trust that they will not change everything, yet again, to try to grab some more subscriptions.
Seriously, if the biggest MMO company in the world (at the time) with the largest budget and most experienced talent could only produce game that required 2+ years to fix then why even bother? Is the bar really set that low for people who still play sony games?
While I agree that WoW or EQ2 are not for everyone and people find entertainment where they will, cool by me. That is how things should work. But to say victim of blizzard I don't understand? Victim of what? SoE has a reputation for screwing their customers. Yes each company will rub people the wrong way but nothing to the extent of SoE, so I'll leave it at I don't understand your comment.
However don't think SoE made their changes based on customer feedback. I got to see some behind the scenes stuff while on the test server (before I left). Yes there were devs and private forums we had access to and the such, not sure what its like now with public transfers. Anyhow, no one asked for the typical sony combat revamp of all the classes, nor the trade revamp changes. Trust me when I say they blind sided test with so many off the wall changes that had ZERO basis on what people where asking for. Most of the time we were scratching our heads asking why they would do something. Live server players would start riots about the changes because no one understood all the direction changes all the time. Better yet, things would just go live without ever hitting test server. They would just add stuff or rather break stuff to be honest. It was the classic early release and then finish the game mentality of Sony. They still think players will hang around while they finish games.
One thing leaves me in the dark though. I keep hearing those who play EQ2 say how great it is now (especially when compared to WoW), but never any reasons why it is good, let alone better than any other game? What gives?
You are mistaken. Solo play was always intended to be part of EQ2 play as evidenced by the fact it was built into the mechanics before the game even hit beta. There have been some adjustments to how soloable some group content is and the amount of dedicated solo/duo content but that’s it. The fact that solo specific mechanics and mobs have been in the game since day one of beta makes it pretty clear that the option to solo play was always part of the design.
Actually, they added mechanics to identify group encounters, not the other way around. The MMO standard at that time was that all mobs where the same (IE solo content). This was a step to reduce the amount of solo content in favor of adding group content to the normal world (and dungeons). Yes I was a bit dramatic stating they had no plans for solo content, but I wasn't far off the mark. They bet the farm that people would only group like in EQ because you had no other choice in that game. Thus lack of vision.
Then as now outdoor areas are the primary solo zones while dungeons are more group focused. In addition group content is and has always been specifically designed to be soloable once you have a few levels on it.
Completing content because you nearly 'grey it out' it is not solo content. Also recall you don't get loot after a certain level range. I doubt that was their solo content design. I actually recall a change they made to certain named encounters so that people couldn't solo/duo them for treasure even with a good deal of levels above the monster.
There was also plenty of solo content at launch, though there was the problem that it wasn’t easily identifiable before hand so people picking up all the quests would frequently run into roadblocks. However, if you selected a highly soloable class like Paladin, Monk, etc you could solo almost any of the content at launch.
Again, just because some classes solo to effeciently doesn't mean there is solo content. Yes there was a smattering of fedex or kill X quests, but they were in serious shortage of supply. The whole game was a giant funnel to grouping. There was a large outcry from the community for real solo content at the time. I recall those roadblocks in the 'solo content' do 2-3 steps in a quest and then get to an encounter where 5 mobs in a group need to be killed that no solo class could possibly do (thus group) or there would be a heroic mob that needed to be killed to continue to quest. The problem wasn't idnetifying a solo quest, it was that you would at some point need a group to complete it!
You never needed to complete an access quest to get to any major outdoor zone. There were quests that followed the storyline of rediscovering zones like Zek, EL, etc and these did grant you access a few levels early but you were never forced to complete them. For example, the content in Zek and EL start at level 30, you could either wait until you were level 30 and get access automatically or you could complete a quest and get access as soon as level 25.
I stand corrected and you are right about just waiting 5+ level to get auto access to common zones. It sill was a bad design they eventually did away with, but you are right. However, just look at that concept, it weights so far in favor of grouping it seems like an abstract punishment to solo play.
Attuned items were in game from the very beginning. In fact they were part of your Island of Refuge quests on launch day. What you are probably thinking of is the fact that all crafted items were changed to be attunable, which was pretty much a no brainer. Without this item sink the market for new crafted items would quickly have disappeared. This was actually an extension of the tweaking in beta that removed un-repairable item wear, which was the original item sink. I recall mailing many item drops from my toons on the introduction island to several of my other characters on the inrto island (newbie island was awesome I admit, love that zone). There were a vast number of non crafted items that could be traded along with some nodrop items mostly from quest rewards if I recall. Long story short. Items from most mosters (outside the some of raid ones, but even then) were useless to people who killed them because they were to low level to be useful, so people would sell them or just mail them to alts. It was killing the crafters, so they made the change partly for that reason. The other part was because once you finished with an item you could just resell it or send it to an alt. There was no decay in the system, again lack of vision. Honestly in my 50 or whatever levels it was, I never once got an item from a monster drop that I could use, ever! That was so disheartening that most bosses dropped items that were always 5+ levels lower than what would be appropriate for a group killing that mob. Player crafted stuff was always better or the legendary quests items were superior. Dungeons and monsters servered no purpose other than grinding xp or waypoints for quests.
Yes there were attuned items at launch, but there were alot there were very much tradeable.
How absurd, someone actually trying to defend SOE. Nothing like trying an impossible task. There is so much on the web to literally destroy any argument you can come up with.
EQ2 is not a bad game, I would have to say it is their best game to date, only problem is it took them 2 years to get there. Most people have moved on and EQ2 is not in their thoughts at all anymore.
Sony's continued release of unfinished games combined with some amazing blunders(SWG-NGE) has set them up as somewhat of a pariah to the pool of people who play MMO's.
The problem with SOE is that the suits think they know what is best for the game. Unfortunately they have employed really clueless suits, hence the moniker fits. It was not a big deal when they had no competition in their market, but once the competition hit, people did not have to put up with their incompetance any more and left for good.
Until they clean out the idiots residing in their executive suites, they will continue to deserve all the crap people heap on them.
Comments
Uh ok. I don't know if english is a second language for you or not. I usually don't slam people for shitty grammer but you sir, have shitty grammer. I can't make sense out of anything you say.
You may have a point but it's lost in your lousy writing "style".
So this won't turn into a flame-fest on grammer and syntax. I recuse myself from this thread until someone else replies that I can understand.
Thanks and have a good day.
LA has been labeled as a cause to the NGE, the issue has been discussed and rediscussed. But at the end of the day Sony is responsible for making those changes, more time and effort could have been made to further ensure the NGE was smooth and that the games features met the players demands. Instead what you had was a stealth patch which durastically changed the nature of a game, changed peoples classes and further more, they did it without announcing its full changes and did it just before the pre-orders for obi wan expansions.
As for Vanguard, I dont seem to read many threads regarding SoE, people however still feel negativity towards SoE due to their actions prior, and so they should. Just becuase time has progressed, we have no reason to avoid being weary and cautious of their actions. it was due to that caution that many avoided wasting (IMO) money on Vanguard. But as you say, Sigil are responsible for the problems...
Categorizing people as "Haters" and then making a general opinion on the actions of a few can be deemed as ignorant. People dislike SoE for different reasons, and as you say, some are less justified then others. Please take that into consideration that not everyone makes rash judgements based on indecisive facts.
Amen Reverend
NGE Refugee.
Well one reason i think noone cares about LA here is that LA doesn't currently have any other MMO's out there atm, whereas SOE have several that people can have gripes with.
As far as Vanguard, I've seen just as much Sigil and Mr. Bradley McQuaid bashing on this site, MORE than the SOE bashing that is Vanguard related. In fact, I think if you look through people hating on Vanguard due to SOE, it is alot of cases of people who probably hold a grudge over a different game experience and just truly want them to fail. *shrugs* I'm not going to tell them to get over it, because whats the point of that? There's been plenty of times where a company did something that made me shy away or completely avoid their products. Sometimes it was something that had no effect on me and I did it on principle alone can you imagine that?
And I don't think you could label me an SOE hater here, as I don't think I've ever really bothered to do so. I think you are right in some cases the "mob" may not correctly place blame on all parties involved. But there may be reasons why that you just don't accept. Free will is a bitch.
SOE = two pound of sh*te in a one pound bag.
If you don't agree go get a station access pass for the new price of $30 a month, and choose from the myriad of turds to play!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I was lucky enough to work with the devs in EQ2 the first 9 or so months of the game. Good people each and every one who truely wanted to make a fun game. However it was very obvious that they a) didn't understand what makes a game fun and most importantly b) were handcuffed by SOE's management time table. It was so frustrating to report bugs and have live chats with devs about crashes, dupes and other game stopping bugs and know they can't fix them before the managers timetable dictates a patch goes live. Not sure if it still happens, but patches went live 7 days after hitting test unless it crashed the entire server. No lies. That reeks of a company that doesn't care for it's player base.
It was mostly the sony timetable that causes the disasters. Even EQ, the mothership, suffered from ramped up expansion timetables so much that the players organized a boycott (see the SOE guild summit era for details) to force SoE to stop. Really has any other company been taken to task like this EVER? SWG, launched WAYYYY to early, but even the haters mostly agree this should have been one of the greatest games ever if it was given time to be finished. To bad SWG was the most mismanaged game in history, how do you screw up the biggest franchise in gaming history? EQ2 was rushed to 'destroy' Warcraft and it showed in performance all the way to lackluster play and lifeless zones. What system in the game didn't get the typical SOE combat upgrade... everything did. The game wasn't a complete dissaster at launch bug wise, though it was trying enough to drive people away. It simply wasn't good. The core philosphy of the game sucked from itemization, artifical time sinks, lack of content that worked to just about every aspect of the game. That is why SoE has spent the last 2 years mimicing other games to make EQ2 decent. They simply do not know how to make games.
They can buy titles all day long and drive them into the ground sure, but what do they really do that warrents praise?
The best I have heard is they fixed EQ2 after 2+ years to make it a decent game? (something I doubt, but maybe it hit some niche)
I will let you all in on an amazing secret.
I have never bought an SOE made game.
And you know what?
I think they can go suck a lemon and fall down some stairs.
How did I come to this conclusion?
I read on the forums about how they destroyed what should have been the greatest mmo in history. Sure I shouldn't listen to hear-say, but the proof is in the subscribers.
I trialed MxO, EQ2, SWG. I threw up moments later and was sent to hospital. The doctor said I caught soetitis. I was in a bad shape. I couldn't move for days.
I eventually got over the torment, after months and months of therapy. When I hear someone say the words SOE, I begin to shake and quiver in fear. The mere name is enough to frighten the proudest of lions, the fiercest of eagles and the strongest of bears.
In conclusion, eating cheese is good for you, because it is a dairy product and helps your bones because bones need calcium.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Plenty of people think. The OP obviously isn't one of them.
I never "Jumped on the bandwagon". I just started hating SOE when they shafted me with the NGE. Simple as that. Everything that had to do with it was completely and totally wrong. LA may have told them to change it, but that doesn't mean they detailed everything around the launch of the NGE, or the nearly fraudulent buisness practices created with the ToOW expansion's release. They also didn't tell them to "Release it buggy" or "Create a crappy FPS clone".
I could write pages and pages more about this. However, I for some reason feel it will be lost on you, as you've already formed your opinion on so-called "SOE haters". You can kiss my ass if you think I'm just following the popular trend and know nothing about what I'm saying.
We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment;
We are choosing to be here right now -Tool, Parabola
Can i clerify something???
SOE merged EQ2's servers 1 time over a year ago
since then, they have added 5 or 6 pvp servers, and i believe they are adding another
the game is not diminishing in numbers, infact it has more numbers than i can ever remember it having
I was shafted by the NGE as well
The new EQ2, better than ever befor !
don't click this link...
I don't know who they're "mimicing" (spelled: mimicking), but I'll give them credit for improving their product over 2 years as opposed to another game company destroying their product over the past 2-3 years. Just when you thought a game couldn't get any worse, which EQ2 was still better than it at launch, they've been steadily killing it. So, good for SoE, I'm glad they're at least trying.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
To the OP,
I think SOE deserves every bit of the negative atention they get. A company should not up and totally remake a game once its been released. Does it get old after awhile seeing all the posts about SOE? for me sometimes it does. But then it also keeps new and old players who might not have other wise known about what happened informed.
Add to the top of that the total cost of the game between expansions the 7$ mini dungeons and "premium web portal" puts EQ2 3-5 times more than wow (or most other games) you should get more than 2 years of catch up to finally become pale imitation. Everyone loves paying more to wait for an inferior product to be changed underneath your feet. Maybe thats just the sony crowd...
As for destroying a game over 2-3 years you mean star wars galaxies I assume.
True Jay and everyone else SOE is not the best company around for sure but they are still putting money into Eq2 why i don't know, i personally was a fan on Eq way back when, Eq2 i think i tryed the trial and that was it. BUT SoE still runs the planetside servers even tho there isnt that much of a pop on it anymore its still a good game, sure if u have a duel core PC it looks like you speed hack and the gfx are not the best but still new contant being adding i dont see how you can bash a whole company just because Eq2 sucks....but isnt there forum the place where you should be bashing it not on here, we all play very diffient games, i myself have just given up WOW to play city of villians again, now theres a game thats goin into a slow death, but i will be leaving it for warhammer online as i guess alot of people will be leaving there games for lord of the rings online, AoC and warhammer online so i say if you dont like a game dont bash it, dont play it, let it die..
Cheers Doc
True Jay and everyone else SOE is not the best company around for sure but they are still putting money into Eq2 why i don't know, i personally was a fan on Eq way back when, Eq2 i think i tryed the trial and that was it. BUT SoE still runs the planetside servers even tho there isnt that much of a pop on it anymore its still a good game, sure if u have a duel core PC it looks like you speed hack and the gfx are not the best but still new contant being adding i dont see how you can bash a whole company just because Eq2 sucks....but isnt there forum the place where you should be bashing it not on here, we all play very diffient games, i myself have just given up WOW to play city of villians again, now theres a game thats goin into a slow death, but i will be leaving it for warhammer online as i guess alot of people will be leaving there games for lord of the rings online, AoC and warhammer online so i say if you dont like a game dont bash it, dont play it, let it die..
Cheers Doc
I have never played a SOE MMO. I'm not saying their games are bad just the company. And for me I don't care how good any of their games are. Why would I support a company with such low morals and standards or poor management. These forums seem to be a safe haven for everyone to speak on the matter without Biased censorship. Im a easy going guy most of the time, so theres no hate or anything from me towards them. why should their be i didn;t give them any of my money for SWG. Its justa matter of principle to me as a person.
Add to the top of that the total cost of the game between expansions the 7$ mini dungeons and "premium web portal" puts EQ2 3-5 times more than wow (or most other games) you should get more than 2 years of catch up to finally become pale imitation. Everyone loves paying more to wait for an inferior product to be changed underneath your feet. Maybe thats just the sony crowd...
As for destroying a game over 2-3 years you mean star wars galaxies I assume.
Add to the top of that the total cost of the game between expansions the 7$ mini dungeons and "premium web portal" puts EQ2 3-5 times more than wow (or most other games) you should get more than 2 years of catch up to finally become pale imitation. Everyone loves paying more to wait for an inferior product to be changed underneath your feet. Maybe thats just the sony crowd...
As for destroying a game over 2-3 years you mean star wars galaxies I assume.
Well, I knew you would bring WoW into this, but I didn't name names hoping you would be more clever. While "better?" would purely be an opinion, mimicking certain aspects of another game that mimicks other games is quite a jump to make. WoW has NOTHING in their game that is either revolutionary, or different, than any game before it. I do give them credit for creating a good mix of the "better?" aspects of those games that came before it. Anyone could easily say solo content came from many mmo's that came WAY before WoW came along as well as the other things you mentioned (although "soul bound" items, which they are not called in EQ2 actually comes from EQ and was in EQ2 at launch).
Considering launch, I couldn't even log into WoW AT ALL. Yeah, real great there. At least I could play EQ2. And the loot tables were horribly screwed up, as well as the quests even in newbie land, with having to loot quest items, which is still stupid in WoW. These were problems that still existed the second time I tried to play WoW many months later. Their launcher, admitted by Blizzard themselves, was the worst piece of garbage ever instituted just to launch the game in the first place. Now, after saying all that, I do give them credit for having a respectable game that pretty much anyone could play on any system. It was easy, semi-fun (without any challenge), and people could get right into the storyline, their characters, and enjoy the game. WoW had a great formula, although stolen from previous games, and with the huge advertising really launched it into the great subs it has today. I don't have any problem with the success of WoW and I'm actually grateful to them for putting MMO's on the map, and bringing tons of people into the genre that may have never even considered this type of game.
You mention the very things, although in a distasteful way (which makes me laugh), that makes EQ2 now a MUCH better game than WoW is today. While EQ2 was improving the game with updates, free and paid for, with expansions and packs, WoW spent 2 years adding tiny adjustments and twiddling their thumbs thanking all their subscribers for the money they're rolling in. They FINALLY put out their first expansion, so now they are only a quarter of the content EQ2 gives for $20-$50 less off the shelf than what you have to pay to get WoW, and the TBC expansion was the worst travesty of any game to date, great for them.
I really don't have anything against Blizzard or WoW. Their subscribers get what they get and they enjoy it, that's great. SoE has made mistakes, and I can choose to be a victim of either Blizzard or SoE, that's my choice by what I think is the best enjoyment I get for the money I pay. If I didn't like EQ2, then obviously, I wouldn't play it. I didn't like WoW, so I don't play it, but a few of my friends do, and we talk shop all the time. I watch them play and see cool stuff, and vice versa. They have fun, I have fun, and that's what is important. I don't think it is very good though to come around and spout off about something you know nothing about, especially given your "arguments", when I see a company actually making something better with customer input and trying to do what's best for their customers. EVERTHING SoE has done for EQ2, can't speak for the other games because I don't play them, has been because of customer feedback and input. I could link tons of posts on their forums of what the customer wanted, and SoE responded favorably because they want what the customer wants. This next patch coming up will be huge for gameplay, and I love being excited about the changes in the game.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
As for soulbound items, I vividly remember the patch hitting and people flooding the test server forums blaming the testers for it going into the game. (there might have been a few items that were no trade from boss mobs, but who cares since boss mobs always dropped items 3-8 levels below your character level making them useless). Honestly, it was several months into the game when SoE changed the very nature of equiping items, and thus economy once more, or items by making everything soulbind on equip. This was NOT in the game at launch.
The base game and expansions totals how much if you bought them when they each respectively released? $200+ That same 'optional' content for WoW is free mind you except the one expansion pack.
As for soulbound items, I vividly remember the patch hitting and people flooding the test server forums blaming the testers for it going into the game. (there might have been a few items that were no trade from boss mobs, but who cares since boss mobs always dropped items 3-8 levels below your character level making them useless). Honestly, it was several months into the game when SoE changed the very nature of equiping items, and thus economy once more, or items by making everything soulbind on equip. This was NOT in the game at launch.
The base game and expansions totals how much if you bought them when they each respectively released? $200+ That same 'optional' content for WoW is free mind you except the one expansion pack.
Are you serious? Your stance is that EQ2 spent 2 years making the game better while WoW did nothing? Ok lets look at that. EQ2 got 3 xpacks at what $50 bucks each (the first of which I beta tested and was furious it went live in the state it did, that was the final straw for me). How many other mini dungeons at 5-10$ bucks each or whatever they cost now? That puts Eq2 somewhere in the 200$ dollar range just to have the extras to play with. In that same time Blizzard added Black wing lair, AQ40, AQ20 (AQ had an AWESOME world wide event for players to work together in also), Zul'gurub, Naxxaramas (again with an awesome world wide event to challenge players), Dire maul east/west/north, Arathi basin, warsong gulch and alterac valley plus whatever else I don't recall off the top of my head. All of this new content for the low low price of FREE! Not even mentioning the retail expansion for 40-50$. Just because Sony puts a pricetag on everything the decide to grace the players with doesn't make another companies accomplishments null or void because they choose to give a little respect to their players. Honestly you sound a little bit 'battered wife syndrome' claiming WoW did nothing and EQ2 did so much.
As for them taking 2 years to "make a better game" at whos expense was that? I played and got so tired of the core concepts of classes getting changed, not tweeked mind you, outright changed. Of course they would undo those changes in a couple weeks after getting so much angry feedback or not, but who wanted to play a game where everything was in a constant state of flux? So maybe it is a better game now, but who really cares. I don't trust that they will not change everything, yet again, to try to grab some more subscriptions.
Seriously, if the biggest MMO company in the world (at the time) with the largest budget and most experienced talent could only produce game that required 2+ years to fix then why even bother? Is the bar really set that low for people who still play sony games?
While I agree that WoW or EQ2 are not for everyone and people find entertainment where they will, cool by me. That is how things should work. But to say victim of blizzard I don't understand? Victim of what? SoE has a reputation for screwing their customers. Yes each company will rub people the wrong way but nothing to the extent of SoE, so I'll leave it at I don't understand your comment.
However don't think SoE made their changes based on customer feedback. I got to see some behind the scenes stuff while on the test server (before I left). Yes there were devs and private forums we had access to and the such, not sure what its like now with public transfers. Anyhow, no one asked for the typical sony combat revamp of all the classes, nor the trade revamp changes. Trust me when I say they blind sided test with so many off the wall changes that had ZERO basis on what people where asking for. Most of the time we were scratching our heads asking why they would do something. Live server players would start riots about the changes because no one understood all the direction changes all the time. Better yet, things would just go live without ever hitting test server. They would just add stuff or rather break stuff to be honest. It was the classic early release and then finish the game mentality of Sony. They still think players will hang around while they finish games.
One thing leaves me in the dark though. I keep hearing those who play EQ2 say how great it is now (especially when compared to WoW), but never any reasons why it is good, let alone better than any other game? What gives?
How absurd, someone actually trying to defend SOE. Nothing like trying an impossible task. There is so much on the web to literally destroy any argument you can come up with.
EQ2 is not a bad game, I would have to say it is their best game to date, only problem is it took them 2 years to get there. Most people have moved on and EQ2 is not in their thoughts at all anymore.
Sony's continued release of unfinished games combined with some amazing blunders(SWG-NGE) has set them up as somewhat of a pariah to the pool of people who play MMO's.
The problem with SOE is that the suits think they know what is best for the game. Unfortunately they have employed really clueless suits, hence the moniker fits. It was not a big deal when they had no competition in their market, but once the competition hit, people did not have to put up with their incompetance any more and left for good.
Until they clean out the idiots residing in their executive suites, they will continue to deserve all the crap people heap on them.