I dont really care who owns VGSoH as long as it stays open and gets regular updates. If SOE can do that better then more power to them.
If this is true though I do feel for all those people at Sigil that have worked so hard to get this game out . I wouldnt want anyone to lose their job; unless they werent doing their job.
Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny. Lao-Tze
How is this SOE's fault anyway? Sigil and Microsoft went their separate ways, most likely because Sigil weren't going to meet agreed release dates, and then signed up with SOE as the publisher, which probably only came about because Brad still had contacts within SOE and managed to persuade them they he could make it work. Sigil are now probably running out of money as VSOH hasnt picked up as many subscribers as they had hoped for and investors are probably after a return on their investment in Sigil. There is no way VSOH has recouped its production costs so far and with a falling subscriber base I doubt it will, again investors will probably want to cut their losses and recoup as much as they can by selling it to someone else. I dont think SOE taking it over would be a big problem, the MMOs where SOE had complete control have actually had reasonable success, EQ was number one in its prime and is still going, PS did well and is still fairly unique, EQ2 lost out to WoWmania originally but has since recovered and is now a very well done and run product (overtaking WoW in my opinion since the release of EQ2:EoF and WoW:TBC). SOEs main failing was SWG, but a large part of that was that they didnt have complete control over it, they had to run every change past Lucas Arts/George Lucas, even so it was successful until the release of WoW after which point they took desperate measures to try to recover some of the lost player base (i.e. CU and NGE). I think the real question should be, would SOE want to take VSOH over? Seriously, it isnt popular enough as it is at the moment so they would have to make changes, and this forum has shown that any changes they would make would be treated negatively. Maybe the best move would be for Sigil to shut the servers down and sell the code to the highest bidder.
Nice to see this kind of post. I thank you for this, Shilak . To the others that dislike SOE so much, don't play thier games if you're so against SOE. Not one of us that are playing them have a problem with them at all. You can keep your past issues going all you want, it just show you have no area for being mature.. I think SOE has done a really great job in quite a few of thier games wether or not you agree with me. And as far as rumors go, they are simply rumors until SOE or Sigil come out and let us know. Try not to speculate to much. I know how many of you clowns want Vanguard to go under, just remember, when you hope for bad things to happen to others including the games they make, usually the bad thing are countered and happen to you yourself. Just justice if you ask me in the end.
How is this SOE's fault anyway? Sigil and Microsoft went their separate ways, most likely because Sigil weren't going to meet agreed release dates, and then signed up with SOE as the publisher, which probably only came about because Brad still had contacts within SOE and managed to persuade them they he could make it work. Sigil are now probably running out of money as VSOH hasnt picked up as many subscribers as they had hoped for and investors are probably after a return on their investment in Sigil. There is no way VSOH has recouped its production costs so far and with a falling subscriber base I doubt it will, again investors will probably want to cut their losses and recoup as much as they can by selling it to someone else. I dont think SOE taking it over would be a big problem, the MMOs where SOE had complete control have actually had reasonable success, EQ was number one in its prime and is still going, PS did well and is still fairly unique, EQ2 lost out to WoWmania originally but has since recovered and is now a very well done and run product (overtaking WoW in my opinion since the release of EQ2:EoF and WoW:TBC). SOEs main failing was SWG, but a large part of that was that they didnt have complete control over it, they had to run every change past Lucas Arts/George Lucas, even so it was successful until the release of WoW after which point they took desperate measures to try to recover some of the lost player base (i.e. CU and NGE). I think the real question should be, would SOE want to take VSOH over? Seriously, it isnt popular enough as it is at the moment so they would have to make changes, and this forum has shown that any changes they would make would be treated negatively. Maybe the best move would be for Sigil to shut the servers down and sell the code to the highest bidder.
Nice to see this kind of post. I thank you for this, Shilak . To the others that dislike SOE so much, don't play thier games if you're so against SOE. Not one of us that are playing them have a problem with them at all. You can keep your past issues going all you want, it just show you have no area for being mature.. I think SOE has done a really great job in quite a few of thier games wether or not you agree with me. And as far as rumors go, they are simply rumors until SOE or Sigil come out and let us know. Try not to speculate to much. I know how many of you clowns want Vanguard to go under, just remember, when you hope for bad things to happen to others including the games they make, usually the bad thing are countered and happen to you yourself. Just justice if you ask me in the end.
Try not to speculate, he says, as he ends his rant with speculation.
Although I do NOT believe this rumor in the least, I will say this: If SOE is EVER running VG, the game is dead. Our whole guild would quit instantly, we're not going through another NGE. Why all the SOE hate? Tell me honestly, if SOE would not have published VG, then would this game ever be out? Where would Sigil get the funding from? Learn this well : SOE saved Brad's arse.
That said, I just don't believe Sigil would sell the game. It's worth more to Sigil then SOE can afford. If Sigil were in such bad shape, they would sell Sigil, not their only income source. Worth more, than SOE can afford ... oookay. If the rumor is correct (which I doubt as well) then Sigil would disband after selling out either way.
That said, I just don't believe Sigil would sell the game. It's worth more to Sigil then SOE can afford. If Sigil were in such bad shape, they would sell Sigil, not their only income source.
Indeed. I would imagine Sigil is in so much debt right now that they couldn't sell Vanguard without all sorts of legal and financial repurcussions. If the rumors are true, than I'd suggest looking for a bankruptcy announcement from Sigil in the near future.
They wouldn't sell the game, then file. Their creditors would be entitled to the funds. I imagine they would sell Sigil, with all debt & obligations, then absorb them. They would need the VG Team to keep the game going.
Again, I just don't believe this. If they sold the game, what would they do? What other games are they developing? Why would they sell their ONLY game & income source, and KEEP all their debt, operational costs & employee obligations? It just doesn't make sense.
Like I said, if they would sell, they would cut losses, pay debts from the money, and go separate ways, come on, this happened to companies which had huge success at a given time, and happens every day with developers who create flops.
I dont really care who owns VGSoH as long as it stays open and gets regular updates. If SOE can do that better then more power to them.
If this is true though I do feel for all those people at Sigil that have worked so hard to get this game out . I wouldnt want anyone to lose their job; unless they werent doing their job.
They worked so hard, and got payed in the meanwhile. Yeah, they put love in the game as well, as games in some strange way are art, but just like a theatre has to be run professionally, so should a game company, especially in such a competitive atmosphere. They worked for five years, now they go search for a new job, not the end of the world, not the first time it happened.
But once again, I state, I doubt they will sell VG so soon, they are doing better than that.
How is this SOE's fault anyway? Sigil and Microsoft went their separate ways, most likely because Sigil weren't going to meet agreed release dates, and then signed up with SOE as the publisher, which probably only came about because Brad still had contacts within SOE and managed to persuade them they he could make it work. Sigil are now probably running out of money as VSOH hasnt picked up as many subscribers as they had hoped for and investors are probably after a return on their investment in Sigil. There is no way VSOH has recouped its production costs so far and with a falling subscriber base I doubt it will, again investors will probably want to cut their losses and recoup as much as they can by selling it to someone else. I dont think SOE taking it over would be a big problem, the MMOs where SOE had complete control have actually had reasonable success, EQ was number one in its prime and is still going, PS did well and is still fairly unique, EQ2 lost out to WoWmania originally but has since recovered and is now a very well done and run product (overtaking WoW in my opinion since the release of EQ2:EoF and WoW:TBC). SOEs main failing was SWG, but a large part of that was that they didnt have complete control over it, they had to run every change past Lucas Arts/George Lucas, even so it was successful until the release of WoW after which point they took desperate measures to try to recover some of the lost player base (i.e. CU and NGE). I think the real question should be, would SOE want to take VSOH over? Seriously, it isnt popular enough as it is at the moment so they would have to make changes, and this forum has shown that any changes they would make would be treated negatively. Maybe the best move would be for Sigil to shut the servers down and sell the code to the highest bidder.
Nice to see this kind of post. I thank you for this, Shilak . To the others that dislike SOE so much, don't play thier games if you're so against SOE. Not one of us that are playing them have a problem with them at all. You can keep your past issues going all you want, it just show you have no area for being mature.. I think SOE has done a really great job in quite a few of thier games wether or not you agree with me. And as far as rumors go, they are simply rumors until SOE or Sigil come out and let us know. Try not to speculate to much. I know how many of you clowns want Vanguard to go under, just remember, when you hope for bad things to happen to others including the games they make, usually the bad thing are countered and happen to you yourself. Just justice if you ask me in the end.
The main issue from a business perspective that your dealing with here is that even if sony buys out sigil, they still have to recoup Their costs as a publisher. right now, im sure sony has a big investment in the 30 million that it cost to make. While "if" they bought out sigil, and took over VG, they are not going to push out a ton of new free content, given that they are already so far in the red.
New content will be added,and things fixed, but sub fees pay for expansions,and if a game is going to take along time to break even, then your not going to see expansions at a rapid pace
I see SOE taking over only as a positive for Vanguard. Those that blame SOE for SWG I think are blaming the wrong people. What I read about it is that when WoW hit millions of subs, LucasArts said "Why didn't we?" so they forced SOE to revamp the game to get the WoW crowd/numbers that a Star Wars game COULD do.
*shrug* I think in alot of cases SOE is just the scapegoat that everybody loves to hate, just like Microsoft.
I hope SOE does buy out Vanguard because then the game might actually get fixed.
Although I do NOT believe this rumor in the least, I will say this: If SOE is EVER running VG, the game is dead. Our whole guild would quit instantly, we're not going through another NGE. Why all the SOE hate? Tell me honestly, if SOE would not have published VG, then would this game ever be out? Where would Sigil get the funding from? Learn this well : SOE saved Brad's arse. They've earned it. They destroyed 3 years of accomplishments with the NGE. Yes, it would have been published, just not as quickly. No, Brad saved his own butt. This was a win for SOE, their lineup is old & stale.
That said, I just don't believe Sigil would sell the game. It's worth more to Sigil then SOE can afford. If Sigil were in such bad shape, they would sell Sigil, not their only income source. Worth more, than SOE can afford ... oookay. If the rumor is correct (which I doubt as well) then Sigil would disband after selling out either way. Sigil can't "disband". They'll still have creditors/debt, operational costs & state employment obligations, as well as no revenue sources. Selling the game is not a viable option. Selling Sigil is, but would take more cash then SOE probably has access to.Blizzard could easily buy them, but not SOE. It is possible, but not likely.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Like I said, if they would sell, they would cut losses, pay debts from the money, and go separate ways, come on, this happened to companies which had huge success at a given time, and happens every day with developers who create flops.
Ok, give an example?
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
That might be true. On the other hand I heard from very good inside sources in both SOE and Blizzard, that Blizzard is going to buy both Vanguard and SWG and develop a SWG 2 game based in the vanguard engine.
I think thats a fake, but thats a DREAM for me... oh my... Wish I live just long enough to see a really good SWG 2, dear god then I can drop dead. ^^
I for myself hope SOE takes over. They have shown in EQ2 that they have the long breath and the right team to make a game good and lasting. Those who blame SOE for SWG really blame the wrong ppl IMO, as Stoneysilenc so rightly pointed out. All background info you see if you REALLY care to dig points to Lucasarts. The entire NGE was so unlike anything else that SOE ever did. Blaming them is just not right and fair. Plus: SWG was NOT in the perfect, great shape before NGE myth now makes of it. I was daily in SWG around the time for years, and the number of active players had GREATLY declined constantly in SWG, due to EQ2 and WOW. They HAD to make some great change, and the sandbox days ARE just over for a majority of players.
However, IMO the problems of VG are so deeply rooted in early off bad design, it will be extremely difficult to remedy. No small solutions will help here.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
That might be true. On the other hand I heard from very good inside sources in both SOE and Blizzard, that Blizzard is going to buy both Vanguard and SWG and develop a SWG 2 game based in the vanguard engine.
I think thats a fake, but thats a DREAM for me... oh my... Wish I live just long enough to see a really good SWG 2, dear god then I can drop dead. ^^
Hey dont go insulting me there. Why fake?It was heard first in a thread of a much more popular mmorg website than vanguard flames.MMORPG com. Imagine how many silly vantrolls gonna be arguing about it in other forums.
That might be true. On the other hand I heard from very good inside sources in both SOE and Blizzard, that Blizzard is going to buy both Vanguard and SWG and develop a SWG 2 game based in the vanguard engine.
I think thats a fake, but thats a DREAM for me... oh my... Wish I live just long enough to see a really good SWG 2, dear god then I can drop dead. ^^
Hey dont go insulting me there. Why fake?It was heard first in a thread of a much more popular mmorg website than vanguard flames.MMORPG com. Imagine how many silly vantrolls gonna be arguing about it in other forums.
Sorry, no offense meant. ^^
Only the flame war over the idea would be worth to live on and enjoy the war. >:D
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Reminds me of an old classic car I once had. Because I was not a mechanic, I pumped about $10,000 into fixing it up over time. Sure it was a nice idea to ride in a restored muscle car, however I just did not continue to have the funds to maintain it. In the end, my mechanic "took the car off my hands" and I lost about $5,000. Oddly, he most likely came out even based on what I spent on repairs.
So the base of the game is established and the footwork has already been done. SoE has the resources to invest as well as the staff and the servers, what is everyone so in a panic about? Loosing "Brad's Vision"; that was lost along with $35,000,000 over the past few years. Still want to blame the state of the game on everything but Sigil? Still want to believe that somehow another say $10 Million and another year would have resulted in anything different had SoE never entered the picture?
Let's keep in mind that MS treats $35 Million on development like you and I look at the $15 a moth subscription, it's small change if the reward is there in the end. If your backing someone and your really sure that you both have the same objectives and they have the creativity and ability to pull it off, then you give them a lot of support and very little control because you stand to win in the end. If that had been the case, I'm fairly sure that VG would be a MS title, not a spin off to SoE.
I was reminded again last night when watching a Biography Special on some recording artists how so many of them that are succesful have Agents, Producers and Record Labels behind them. They stick to what they are good at which is making music that sells and let the others figure out the details of business management.
Those that blame SOE for SWG I think are blaming the wrong people. What I read about it is that when WoW hit millions of subs, LucasArts said "Why didn't we?" so they forced SOE to revamp the game to get the WoW crowd/numbers that a Star Wars game COULD do.
I see people post this all the time and here is my response: I don't care who came up with the NGE. It's how SOE implemented it that I had a problem with. I'm sure LucasArts would have loved for SWG to have WoW-like subscription numbers but whether or not it was them or SOE that came up with the NGE, SOE was the one that screwed up the implementation.
Like I said, if they would sell, they would cut losses, pay debts from the money, and go separate ways, come on, this happened to companies which had huge success at a given time, and happens every day with developers who create flops.
Ok, give an example?Matrix Online
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
I find it funny that the Vanguard haters will jump on any rumor or fake graph and run with it like its fact... lol
It was created by a Moderator over at Silky Venom. Silky Venom is a Fan Site and the graph was developed by a fan and not a hater. This graph has been out since Mid March
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
I find it funny that the Vanguard haters will jump on any rumor or fake graph and run with it like its fact... lol
It was created by a Moderator over at Silky Venom. Silky Venom is a Fan Site and the graph was developed by a fan and not a hater. This graph has been out since Mid March
And how is this ""Fan"" getting his information in order to create the graph? I know Sigil or SOE is not releasing this data.... If your going to post graphs then post links to support it.. otherwise it means nothing...
I find it funny that the Vanguard haters will jump on any rumor or fake graph and run with it like its fact... lol
What's even funnier is how fanbois will try to discredit anything that takes an objective look at their game and finds an unfavorable conclusion. Especially when the data is from a Vanguard fan site.
Like I said, if they would sell, they would cut losses, pay debts from the money, and go separate ways, come on, this happened to companies which had huge success at a given time, and happens every day with developers who create flops.
Ok, give an example?
How about Troika Games? They produced some awesome titles that I and a lot of others really enjoyed. After running into financial trouble, they had to sell assets and disband.
Comments
If this is true though I do feel for all those people at Sigil that have worked so hard to get this game out . I wouldnt want anyone to lose their job; unless they werent doing their job.
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze
Try not to speculate, he says, as he ends his rant with speculation.
They wouldn't sell the game, then file. Their creditors would be entitled to the funds. I imagine they would sell Sigil, with all debt & obligations, then absorb them. They would need the VG Team to keep the game going.
Again, I just don't believe this. If they sold the game, what would they do? What other games are they developing? Why would they sell their ONLY game & income source, and KEEP all their debt, operational costs & employee obligations? It just doesn't make sense.
Like I said, if they would sell, they would cut losses, pay debts from the money, and go separate ways, come on, this happened to companies which had huge success at a given time, and happens every day with developers who create flops.But once again, I state, I doubt they will sell VG so soon, they are doing better than that.
The main issue from a business perspective that your dealing with here is that even if sony buys out sigil, they still have to recoup Their costs as a publisher. right now, im sure sony has a big investment in the 30 million that it cost to make. While "if" they bought out sigil, and took over VG, they are not going to push out a ton of new free content, given that they are already so far in the red.
New content will be added,and things fixed, but sub fees pay for expansions,and if a game is going to take along time to break even, then your not going to see expansions at a rapid pace
*shrug* I think in alot of cases SOE is just the scapegoat that everybody loves to hate, just like Microsoft.
I hope SOE does buy out Vanguard because then the game might actually get fixed.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
TwitchTV Partnered Streamer
MMORPG.com Spotlight Blog Writer
Co-Leader of Inquisition
Youtube Channel
I think thats a fake, but thats a DREAM for me... oh my... Wish I live just long enough to see a really good SWG 2, dear god then I can drop dead. ^^
I for myself hope SOE takes over. They have shown in EQ2 that they have the long breath and the right team to make a game good and lasting. Those who blame SOE for SWG really blame the wrong ppl IMO, as Stoneysilenc so rightly pointed out. All background info you see if you REALLY care to dig points to Lucasarts. The entire NGE was so unlike anything else that SOE ever did. Blaming them is just not right and fair. Plus: SWG was NOT in the perfect, great shape before NGE myth now makes of it. I was daily in SWG around the time for years, and the number of active players had GREATLY declined constantly in SWG, due to EQ2 and WOW. They HAD to make some great change, and the sandbox days ARE just over for a majority of players.
However, IMO the problems of VG are so deeply rooted in early off bad design, it will be extremely difficult to remedy. No small solutions will help here.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Darth Schmed "Today will be a day long remembered. It has seen the end of SWG, it will soon see the end of the Vanguard."
I think thats a fake, but thats a DREAM for me... oh my... Wish I live just long enough to see a really good SWG 2, dear god then I can drop dead. ^^
Hey dont go insulting me there. Why fake?It was heard first in a thread of a much more popular mmorg website than vanguard flames.MMORPG com. Imagine how many silly vantrolls gonna be arguing about it in other forums.
I think thats a fake, but thats a DREAM for me... oh my... Wish I live just long enough to see a really good SWG 2, dear god then I can drop dead. ^^
Hey dont go insulting me there. Why fake?It was heard first in a thread of a much more popular mmorg website than vanguard flames.MMORPG com. Imagine how many silly vantrolls gonna be arguing about it in other forums.
Sorry, no offense meant. ^^
Only the flame war over the idea would be worth to live on and enjoy the war. >:D
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
So the base of the game is established and the footwork has already been done. SoE has the resources to invest as well as the staff and the servers, what is everyone so in a panic about? Loosing "Brad's Vision"; that was lost along with $35,000,000 over the past few years. Still want to blame the state of the game on everything but Sigil? Still want to believe that somehow another say $10 Million and another year would have resulted in anything different had SoE never entered the picture?
Let's keep in mind that MS treats $35 Million on development like you and I look at the $15 a moth subscription, it's small change if the reward is there in the end. If your backing someone and your really sure that you both have the same objectives and they have the creativity and ability to pull it off, then you give them a lot of support and very little control because you stand to win in the end. If that had been the case, I'm fairly sure that VG would be a MS title, not a spin off to SoE.
I was reminded again last night when watching a Biography Special on some recording artists how so many of them that are succesful have Agents, Producers and Record Labels behind them. They stick to what they are good at which is making music that sells and let the others figure out the details of business management.
And where did you get his graph?
I find it funny that the Vanguard haters will jump on any rumor or fake graph and run with it like its fact... lol
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
And where did you get his graph?
I find it funny that the Vanguard haters will jump on any rumor or fake graph and run with it like its fact... lol
It was created by a Moderator over at Silky Venom. Silky Venom is a Fan Site and the graph was developed by a fan and not a hater. This graph has been out since Mid March
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
And where did you get his graph?
I find it funny that the Vanguard haters will jump on any rumor or fake graph and run with it like its fact... lol
It was created by a Moderator over at Silky Venom. Silky Venom is a Fan Site and the graph was developed by a fan and not a hater. This graph has been out since Mid March
And how is this ""Fan"" getting his information in order to create the graph? I know Sigil or SOE is not releasing this data.... If your going to post graphs then post links to support it.. otherwise it means nothing...
And where did you get his graph?
I find it funny that the Vanguard haters will jump on any rumor or fake graph and run with it like its fact... lol
What's even funnier is how fanbois will try to discredit anything that takes an objective look at their game and finds an unfavorable conclusion. Especially when the data is from a Vanguard fan site.
TwitchTV Partnered Streamer
MMORPG.com Spotlight Blog Writer
Co-Leader of Inquisition
Youtube Channel
How about Troika Games? They produced some awesome titles that I and a lot of others really enjoyed. After running into financial trouble, they had to sell assets and disband.
Here's a Wiki with more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troika_Games