Anybody know what the name of the new company is that Brad will be leading and what the name of the revolutionary 4th generation MMO will be? Man I love when history repeats itself. Victory is near!
For anyone who lost their Virginity in post-Luclin Everquest, followed EQII like a rabid fanboi, and then repeated the process with Vanguard, it is all quite ironic.
Unfortunately we still got to get that 3rd generation game out before we get any 4th gen out, although I hear that Vanguard the Sequel will have such a revolutionary graphics engine that it will not even be able to be shown on todays PCs without them blowing up and the game play will be so hardcore that when your character dies your credit card will actually be charged extra for your incompentence.
For those interested in the graphs there was a lot of discussion over on SilkyVenom in February and March.
The first discussion - both on these threads and in others - was the number of characters level 10 and above. Even now 3 months since launch it isn't far above 200k (was 213k earlier in the week). Level 20 and up was under 60k (assume it has just passed 60k now). Tell me again how hard it is getting to level 10?
The first set of graphs that Merritt posted were along the above lines (check the number of r's and t's tracking the growth in level 1 characters. It is A measure.
The there was discussion about characters that gained a level in a day as being 'active' - and people posted that not everyone played every day, it discounted the handful of pure dimplomacy folks etc etc.
So the graph that Meritt then produced had the following characteristics:
The number given is the number of unique characters that gained at least 1 adventure, crafting or diplomacy level in a 4 day period. Level 50s were included by default even if they were devs or no longer played. A character that gained multiple levels was counted once and once only. If a person played more than one character in the 4 day period and leveled both, both were counted. A 4 day window meant that if a player played once a week they would be included if they gained a level.
So some over estimating - the 50s, folks who leveled more than one character and possibly some negatives - people who played but failed to level. Remember however that most characters are very low so gaining a level is not that big a deal.
What Merritt pointed out was that the key was not the accuracy as such but the trend - and it was down.
Merritt hasn't produced an update but since the end of March all the stats have got worse. I mentioned the level 10s for example well at the start of April there were nearly 188k level 10 and up. So that is 25k people who have reached level 10 since the start of the month. And no you cannot say they are all playing above level 10 because that means no new characters and under 60k characters in total.
Anyway that is the background - weeks and weeks of posts about in on Silky (at least there were) so I am not going to suggest what the figures mean.
This game had the second largest budget ever in an MMO, had 5 years of development, and was marketed as the first 3rd gen MMO.
This makes me wonder, why is that an argument all the time. Isn't it alreade a nailed fact that many dont consider it to be the 3rd gen mmo. So why continue to build arguments on it.
I was hoping to buy this game, but refrained after hearing so many bad things. My biggest doubt was about server populations and finding groups to level up. So, if SoE did buy out VG and merge servers, I would buy this game. (As long as Vanguard dont end up with 4 $30 expansions a year, each with less content then a coloring book.)
This game had the second largest budget ever in an MMO, had 5 years of development, and was marketed as the first 3rd gen MMO.
This makes me wonder, why is that an argument all the time. Isn't it alreade a nailed fact that many dont consider it to be the 3rd gen mmo. So why continue to build arguments on it.
Or did you just pop up and joined the bandwagon?
If you read my whole post instead of the line that bothers you, I was referring to someone who mentioned that 30k actives is good number. The scope of this game compared to DAOC, which was released several years ago are both pulling the same number actives illustrates whether or not this is a good indicator. The budget does bear mentioning because it symbolizes how grand the project was and what the return on that level of investment is yielding them this early/late in their product life cycle. (I'm a business graduate and a business owner so I'm looking at it from this perspective). I think the real test will be 1 month from now to see what impact, if any, LOTRO will have.
Originally posted by SKIPADI I would suggest that a lot of MMO's today would be thrilled to have 30,000 players logging in each day. Just my opinion.
Maybe, but most pay to play MMOs should be pulling in at least this much. DAOC, a game that is virtually a ghost town with the exception of classic servers gets about this many a day worldwide which can be viewed on the camelotherald. No disrespect to DAOC, its a great game, just past its product life cycle. How many years old is DAOC? Vanguard has been out for a few months and it has the activity of a game thats been out for years and declining. Just using DAOC as an example because it is one of the only games that publicly shows server populations at any given time. This game had the second largest budget ever in an MMO, had 5 years of development, and was marketed as the first 3rd gen MMO.
Your points are well taken.
I thought DAOC was down to about 20k logging in daily, that was a great game but I think its run is about over.
Concerning Vanguard though, I think that Sigil, if (big if) they can keep those stable numbers, may have a window of opportunity to turn things around. Obviously I have no idea what Sigil's financial situation is, but if they can hang on, and keep improving the game, they just may be able to create that 3rd gen MMO they spoke of.
When the tyrant has disposed of foreign enemies by conquest or treaty, and there is nothing to fear from them, then he is always stirring up some war or other in order that the people may require a leader. -- Plato
All Im asking for is proof of where the data came from...... One thing that always puzzles me is if you dislike a game so much how come you spend so much of your free time in its forums? You guys remind me a guy who gets dumped by his girlfriend and then you stalk her... lol
My understanding of that graph is that the information came directly from the Vanguard Players site. There was a simple tool that he created that would pull data from the player site.
The author said that for a character to be considered active it had to have gained a level in either adventuring, crafting or diplomacy . I think he only considered characters that were level 10 or above in this, because many people create alts that never make it past the first few levels.
Now based on these numbers, you have to try and estimate how many are alts on the same account. Would it be reasonable to assume an active subscription might have 2 or 3 characters over level 10 that have each gained a level in one of the three spheres of gameplay?
One thing that always puzzles me is if you dislike a game so much how come you spend so much of your free time in its forums? You guys remind me a guy who gets dumped by his girlfriend and then you stalk her... lol
One thing that always puzzles me is if you like a game so much how come you spend so much of your free time in its forums? You guys remind me a guy who marries his girlfriend and then you ignore her... lol
Actually forums are used to get information about the game, such as patch notes or any tips on how to create better weapons or armor... Unfornatually some people prefer to turn it into there own personal soap opera on how this game destroyed there life by not living up to there expectations.. lol
Information about a game can be both good and bad. When you try and censor one side you do a disservice to the community as a whole. An open discussion about all aspects of a game is always preferable to a one-sided one...unless you are Brad McQuaid and are trying to save your sinking ship.
I have no issues on people posting why they dont like they game or what is broken about the game, my issues are with posters who post stats and figures implying there fact about the games ""impeding doom"" when they actually have no proof the information is accurate...
What a surprise as others have stated. Many of yus were prediciting this back in December/January. Who could not have seen a mile off that a game based on punitive death penalties, long downtime between fights, long travel times, and forced grouping would have problems finding a player base. VSoH can join the Matrix, Planetside, and EQ1 in the Station Pass stable of " has beens and never weres". At least you get EQII however which is the one pearl in that cesspool.
Merritt's charts do not include leveling in diplomacy as a criteria. He specifically excluded it.
Also, one other small item. Using those same numbers that people are citing as showing such drastic declines, Merritt estimated the number of active subscriptions at 175K and climbing.
- How can you talk if you haven't got a brain?
- I don't know, but some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't they?
>>> If your not playing the game, then why should it matter to you what happens to the game at all?
>>> If you are playing the game, then despite the knee jerk reactions, Sigil already submitted to both Microsoft and Sony Online when they cut the deal for money. There is NEVER a loan with no strings attached in the Corporate world. If anything, knowing that SoE is backing the project should provide some relief in knowing that they won't be forced to pull the plug due to lack of capital.
I'm sorry, I just don't get the attitude of those who say they will quit if SoE buys the game. If you bought the game knowing SoE was the publisher and backer, then you already sold out to SoE, this is just another formality. I know, it's the old SWG stuff coming up again, however there is still a healthy EQ and EQ/2 out there that they seem to be doing quite well with. I guess I don't avoid Mac Donald's because their salads don't appeal to me anymore than I buy the Tofu burgers at the salad place. SoE has been quite good at this genre of MMoG's and Brad's Vision of VG was nothing more than a polished version of that.
>>> If your not playing the game, then why should it matter to you what happens to the game at all?
>>> If you are playing the game, then despite the knee jerk reactions, Sigil already submitted to both Microsoft and Sony Online when they cut the deal for money. There is NEVER a loan with no strings attached in the Corporate world. If anything, knowing that SoE is backing the project should provide some relief in knowing that they won't be forced to pull the plug due to lack of capital.
I'm sorry, I just don't get the attitude of those who say they will quit if SoE buys the game. If you bought the game knowing SoE was the publisher and backer, then you already sold out to SoE, this is just another formality. I know, it's the old SWG stuff coming up again, however there is still a healthy EQ and EQ/2 out there that they seem to be doing quite well with. I guess I don't avoid Mac Donald's because their salads don't appeal to me anymore than I buy the Tofu burgers at the salad place. SoE has been quite good at this genre of MMoG's and Brad's Vision of VG was nothing more than a polished version of that.
I keep seeing people post that the whole "SOE" hate thing is because of SWG. I am sure a good portion was. I was ready to buy SWG on day one before I tried out the beta. EQI's direction post Luclin and EQ2's initial release were also sore-spots for alot of people including myself. I don't hate them but their track record of bad moves wasn't just SWG.
>>> If your not playing the game, then why should it matter to you what happens to the game at all?
>>> If you are playing the game, then despite the knee jerk reactions, Sigil already submitted to both Microsoft and Sony Online when they cut the deal for money. There is NEVER a loan with no strings attached in the Corporate world. If anything, knowing that SoE is backing the project should provide some relief in knowing that they won't be forced to pull the plug due to lack of capital.
I'm sorry, I just don't get the attitude of those who say they will quit if SoE buys the game. If you bought the game knowing SoE was the publisher and backer, then you already sold out to SoE, this is just another formality. I know, it's the old SWG stuff coming up again, however there is still a healthy EQ and EQ/2 out there that they seem to be doing quite well with. I guess I don't avoid Mac Donald's because their salads don't appeal to me anymore than I buy the Tofu burgers at the salad place. SoE has been quite good at this genre of MMoG's and Brad's Vision of VG was nothing more than a polished version of that.
I keep seeing people post that the whole "SOE" hate thing is because of SWG. I am sure a good portion was. I was ready to buy SWG on day one before I tried out the beta. EQI's direction post Luclin and EQ2's initial release were also sore-spots for alot of people including myself. I don't hate them but their track record of bad moves wasn't just SWG.I have to disagree here. I am not sure if you played SWG, but what SOE did with the NGE to SWG is despicable. Major newspapers carried the story. Hell... even SOE said it was a bad move and apologized. I am just to weary of the whole subject to go into more details.. but what happened to SWG was a special case and I hope it never ever ever happens to another game and to another fan-base.
>>> If your not playing the game, then why should it matter to you what happens to the game at all?
>>> If you are playing the game, then despite the knee jerk reactions, Sigil already submitted to both Microsoft and Sony Online when they cut the deal for money. There is NEVER a loan with no strings attached in the Corporate world. If anything, knowing that SoE is backing the project should provide some relief in knowing that they won't be forced to pull the plug due to lack of capital.
I'm sorry, I just don't get the attitude of those who say they will quit if SoE buys the game. If you bought the game knowing SoE was the publisher and backer, then you already sold out to SoE, this is just another formality. I know, it's the old SWG stuff coming up again, however there is still a healthy EQ and EQ/2 out there that they seem to be doing quite well with. I guess I don't avoid Mac Donald's because their salads don't appeal to me anymore than I buy the Tofu burgers at the salad place. SoE has been quite good at this genre of MMoG's and Brad's Vision of VG was nothing more than a polished version of that.
I keep seeing people post that the whole "SOE" hate thing is because of SWG. I am sure a good portion was. I was ready to buy SWG on day one before I tried out the beta. EQI's direction post Luclin and EQ2's initial release were also sore-spots for alot of people including myself. I don't hate them but their track record of bad moves wasn't just SWG.I have to disagree here. I am not sure if you played SWG, but what SOE did with the NGE to SWG is despicable. Major newspapers carried the story. Hell... even SOE said it was a bad move and apologized. I am just to weary of the whole subject to go into more details.. but what happened to SWG was a special case and I hope it never ever ever happens to another game and to another fan-base.
So let me see if I can sort this out...
Taking $35 Million from investors and then releasing something that you admit should not have been released while charging the general public, based on boxed sales, another $10 Million Plus the subscriptions, makes you someone to trust enough even when you went back to the old company for backing.
Releasing a product that was built on technology designed to be affordable 6 months from now, even though that would be the high end systems of today that people are having problems with also makes you trust them so long as they don't let SoE buy them out?
Well, I guess you should trust SoE then, because like Brad, even though they hosed over the public with SWG, they did apologize, and as so many point out, that's what really counts?
Maybe it's just my flawed logic that comes to place here, but why would people be willing to stick it out with "Brad"; but not with SoE, when Sigil basically did the same exact things, just at release instead of later in the game? Wait...Wait... I know this one, because SoE made a huge mistake caving in to what the players demanded, thus ruining a game (SWG) where that can never happen here? Yep, we won't see things like easy experience or transporters in this game, it's for the pure of heart....well, that was till this patch of course.
Honestly, I like the game, bugs and all. Fact is it is getting better, however there would be NO game without SoE so it seems a little ironic to bash them and put 100% loyalty into the company that feeds off them.
>>> If your not playing the game, then why should it matter to you what happens to the game at all?
>>> If you are playing the game, then despite the knee jerk reactions, Sigil already submitted to both Microsoft and Sony Online when they cut the deal for money. There is NEVER a loan with no strings attached in the Corporate world. If anything, knowing that SoE is backing the project should provide some relief in knowing that they won't be forced to pull the plug due to lack of capital.
I'm sorry, I just don't get the attitude of those who say they will quit if SoE buys the game. If you bought the game knowing SoE was the publisher and backer, then you already sold out to SoE, this is just another formality. I know, it's the old SWG stuff coming up again, however there is still a healthy EQ and EQ/2 out there that they seem to be doing quite well with. I guess I don't avoid Mac Donald's because their salads don't appeal to me anymore than I buy the Tofu burgers at the salad place. SoE has been quite good at this genre of MMoG's and Brad's Vision of VG was nothing more than a polished version of that.
I keep seeing people post that the whole "SOE" hate thing is because of SWG. I am sure a good portion was. I was ready to buy SWG on day one before I tried out the beta. EQI's direction post Luclin and EQ2's initial release were also sore-spots for alot of people including myself. I don't hate them but their track record of bad moves wasn't just SWG.I have to disagree here. I am not sure if you played SWG, but what SOE did with the NGE to SWG is despicable. Major newspapers carried the story. Hell... even SOE said it was a bad move and apologized. I am just to weary of the whole subject to go into more details.. but what happened to SWG was a special case and I hope it never ever ever happens to another game and to another fan-base.
I didn't play SWG post release but I played beta and read what the NGE did. Basically it made it Diablo style and added some run ins with R2-D2 and Han Solo for good measure. It basically made the game dumbed down after people worked their butts off for Jedi or some other class. I'm just saying that other games including EQ2, EQ1 and Vanguard were dumbed down as well. EQ2 went the solo route to compete with WOW, EQI added portals and god like weapons and Vanguard also toyed with XP levels and Death penalties to compete with WOW. It wasn't as bad as the SWG fiasco but certainly I would say there are people who like me never played SWG but still hold SOE in ill regard. Add in their wonderful customer service and I imagine it has it's Trolls for every game in their stable.
I still cant see the rather childish resentment towards SOE..yes they made a mess of SWG but given the meddling of LA even blizzard would have had a hard time turning that game into a winner.
Sigil have created a game that when (c'mon lets be fair it HAS to happen) SOE takes over they have the know how to hopefully make it work you only have to look towards the sublime EQ2 to see that given time and love and attention SOE can make great games,Sigil seemingly dont.
Its time to hand the game over to a company that knows what its doing and hopefully SOE can turn it around.
Merritt's charts do not include leveling in diplomacy as a criteria. He specifically excluded it. Also, one other small item. Using those same numbers that people are citing as showing such drastic declines, Merritt estimated the number of active subscriptions at 175K and climbing.
Make sure you use the correct term - 175K accounts not subscriptions. Of the 175K accounts,
some are real and some are buddy keys. The buddy keys never paid for the box or the monthly
fee so they are nothing more than a free ride and brought no income to Sigil.
The graph suggests that a cash crunch is coming sooner rather than later. Perhaps the
rumor has surfaced to prepare people for what is coming.
Merritt's charts do not include leveling in diplomacy as a criteria. He specifically excluded it. Also, one other small item. Using those same numbers that people are citing as showing such drastic declines, Merritt estimated the number of active subscriptions at 175K and climbing.
Make sure you use the correct term - 175K accounts not subscriptions. Of the 175K accounts,
some are real and some are buddy keys. The buddy keys never paid for the box or the monthly
fee so they are nothing more than a free ride and brought no income to Sigil.
The graph suggests that a cash crunch is coming sooner rather than later. Perhaps the
rumor has surfaced to prepare people for what is coming.
I think were also leaving out a large portion of the player base, the ALL ACCESS players. I know I intend to play VG less when I get the anniversary edition of EQ as well as when the next expansion to EQ2 is released. Since the income on these accounts is applied based on the percentage of SoE Games ~vs~ VG played, the numbers reflect a subscriber even if they logged in 10 minutes out of the month into VG.
Here, honestly is my concern:
I enjoy the game, bugs and all. Now if I invest ton's of time and Sigil can't pull it off, then I have ton's of hours into an empty server or no servers at all. Now I'm not saying that SoE holds some magic that will fix the game and build the numbers, hell the code could be so screwed up that could take a long time to happen. I do however feel that SoE adding the game to their overhead and structuring the staffing while utilizing their current resources may very well be more viable than Sigil having VG as a one horse show having to support itself on the game.
Call it a pet peeve, but they could start with the Forums. Had this game been released smoothly the affiliate system very well could have worked. Given the current circumstances, I for one feel like I would rather hear things from the horses mouth than gleam sites for tidbits of information.
Merritt's charts do not include leveling in diplomacy as a criteria. He specifically excluded it. Also, one other small item. Using those same numbers that people are citing as showing such drastic declines, Merritt estimated the number of active subscriptions at 175K and climbing.
Come on Dude do you really believe that? Beside the point that people who only do diplomacy has to be extremely small, there is no way they have more than 50-75k people subscribed to Vanguard and shrinking every week.
btw, Diplomacy is nothing but a joke, a bad joke at that. Nothing but some dumb card game in the midst of another game.
This is where difference of opinion comes in and and you are being overly forcefull in what you think about it. Diplomacy in VG is a lot of fun for a lot of players. Saying its a joke is a slap in the face to a decent amount of people playing the game.
If you dont like what they did..you dont need to take part in it. Its one thing to say you dont enjoy the Diplo sphere but its another to just declare it a bad joke...thats just insulting to people that enjoy it.
btw, card games are still popular in modern culture and many people play various card games for entertainment.
Blea, I don't wanna get on the F' Sigil / SoE bandwagon but my impression is that they have both been playing their hands for opposite and the same reasons.
First, I think Sigil at first wanted to see it finished and see if they COULD get a player base, but soon realized what they suspected, and fell to plan "B". Unload the debt, product, and responsibility. This also led them to SoE, knowing they would love to get their hands on it.
SoE has been playing to get the game and add it to their collective, playing Sigil and through "helping" has been planning the buyout for some time. I'm sure they have charged them a premium for their services including 'loaner-devs'. Making Sigil go further in debt to SoE, debt that will be 'forgiven' if a structured buyout goes through.
Merritt's charts do not include leveling in diplomacy as a criteria. He specifically excluded it. Also, one other small item. Using those same numbers that people are citing as showing such drastic declines, Merritt estimated the number of active subscriptions at 175K and climbing.
Make sure you use the correct term - 175K accounts not subscriptions. Of the 175K accounts,
some are real and some are buddy keys. The buddy keys never paid for the box or the monthly
fee so they are nothing more than a free ride and brought no income to Sigil.
The graph suggests that a cash crunch is coming sooner rather than later. Perhaps the
rumor has surfaced to prepare people for what is coming.
I think were also leaving out a large portion of the player base, the ALL ACCESS players. I know I intend to play VG less when I get the anniversary edition of EQ as well as when the next expansion to EQ2 is released. Since the income on these accounts is applied based on the percentage of SoE Games ~vs~ VG played, the numbers reflect a subscriber even if they logged in 10 minutes out of the month into VG.
The beauty of data mining is that everyone is included regardless of what vehicle they use to get into
the game. What value would the VGPlayers website have, if it omitted the All Access players or any other
segment of the player population ? It would stand out like a sore thumb because someone would
wonder why their character was not listed. The value / beauty of data mining is that it has no biases.
If the data is presented to the world as valid (presumably VGPlayers is accurate or at least there have
been very few complaints about its content), then the data mined from it is accurate. Why accurate ?
Because given the same criteria and same source data, the mined information is available to anyone
Merritt's charts do not include leveling in diplomacy as a criteria. He specifically excluded it. Also, one other small item. Using those same numbers that people are citing as showing such drastic declines, Merritt estimated the number of active subscriptions at 175K and climbing.
Make sure you use the correct term - 175K accounts not subscriptions. Of the 175K accounts,
some are real and some are buddy keys. The buddy keys never paid for the box or the monthly
fee so they are nothing more than a free ride and brought no income to Sigil.
The graph suggests that a cash crunch is coming sooner rather than later. Perhaps the
rumor has surfaced to prepare people for what is coming.
Yes, it was active accounts, not subscriptions and I suspect that the cash crunch is already here. Otherwise they most likely would not have released early.
- How can you talk if you haven't got a brain?
- I don't know, but some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't they?
Comments
For anyone who lost their Virginity in post-Luclin Everquest, followed EQII like a rabid fanboi, and then repeated the process with Vanguard, it is all quite ironic.
Unfortunately we still got to get that 3rd generation game out before we get any 4th gen out, although I hear that Vanguard the Sequel will have such a revolutionary graphics engine that it will not even be able to be shown on todays PCs without them blowing up and the game play will be so hardcore that when your character dies your credit card will actually be charged extra for your incompentence.
For those interested in the graphs there was a lot of discussion over on SilkyVenom in February and March.
The first discussion - both on these threads and in others - was the number of characters level 10 and above. Even now 3 months since launch it isn't far above 200k (was 213k earlier in the week). Level 20 and up was under 60k (assume it has just passed 60k now). Tell me again how hard it is getting to level 10?
The first set of graphs that Merritt posted were along the above lines (check the number of r's and t's
tracking the growth in level 1 characters. It is A measure.
The there was discussion about characters that gained a level in a day as being 'active' - and people posted that not everyone played every day, it discounted the handful of pure dimplomacy folks etc etc.
So the graph that Meritt then produced had the following characteristics:
The number given is the number of unique characters that gained at least 1 adventure, crafting or diplomacy level in a 4 day period. Level 50s were included by default even if they were devs or no longer played. A character that gained multiple levels was counted once and once only. If a person played more than one character in the 4 day period and leveled both, both were counted. A 4 day window meant that if a player played once a week they would be included if they gained a level.
So some over estimating - the 50s, folks who leveled more than one character and possibly some negatives - people who played but failed to level. Remember however that most characters are very low so gaining a level is not that big a deal.
What Merritt pointed out was that the key was not the accuracy as such but the trend - and it was down.
Merritt hasn't produced an update but since the end of March all the stats have got worse. I mentioned the level 10s for example well at the start of April there were nearly 188k level 10 and up. So that is 25k people who have reached level 10 since the start of the month. And no you cannot say they are all playing above level 10 because that means no new characters and under 60k characters in total.
Anyway that is the background - weeks and weeks of posts about in on Silky (at least there were) so I am not going to suggest what the figures mean.
This makes me wonder, why is that an argument all the time. Isn't it alreade a nailed fact that many dont consider it to be the 3rd gen mmo. So why continue to build arguments on it.
Or did you just pop up and joined the bandwagon?
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
This makes me wonder, why is that an argument all the time. Isn't it alreade a nailed fact that many dont consider it to be the 3rd gen mmo. So why continue to build arguments on it.
Or did you just pop up and joined the bandwagon?
If you read my whole post instead of the line that bothers you, I was referring to someone who mentioned that 30k actives is good number. The scope of this game compared to DAOC, which was released several years ago are both pulling the same number actives illustrates whether or not this is a good indicator. The budget does bear mentioning because it symbolizes how grand the project was and what the return on that level of investment is yielding them this early/late in their product life cycle. (I'm a business graduate and a business owner so I'm looking at it from this perspective). I think the real test will be 1 month from now to see what impact, if any, LOTRO will have.
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Your points are well taken.
I thought DAOC was down to about 20k logging in daily, that was a great game but I think its run is about over.
Concerning Vanguard though, I think that Sigil, if (big if) they can keep those stable numbers, may have a window of opportunity to turn things around. Obviously I have no idea what Sigil's financial situation is, but if they can hang on, and keep improving the game, they just may be able to create that 3rd gen MMO they spoke of.
When the tyrant has disposed of foreign enemies by conquest or treaty, and there is nothing to fear from them, then he is always stirring up some war or other in order that the people may require a leader.
-- Plato
The author said that for a character to be considered active it had to have gained a level in either adventuring, crafting or diplomacy . I think he only considered characters that were level 10 or above in this, because many people create alts that never make it past the first few levels.
Now based on these numbers, you have to try and estimate how many are alts on the same account. Would it be reasonable to assume an active subscription might have 2 or 3 characters over level 10 that have each gained a level in one of the three spheres of gameplay?
Actually forums are used to get information about the game, such as patch notes or any tips on how to create better weapons or armor... Unfornatually some people prefer to turn it into there own personal soap opera on how this game destroyed there life by not living up to there expectations.. lol
Information about a game can be both good and bad. When you try and censor one side you do a disservice to the community as a whole. An open discussion about all aspects of a game is always preferable to a one-sided one...unless you are Brad McQuaid and are trying to save your sinking ship.
I have no issues on people posting why they dont like they game or what is broken about the game, my issues are with posters who post stats and figures implying there fact about the games ""impeding doom"" when they actually have no proof the information is accurate...
I miss DAoC
Merritt's charts do not include leveling in diplomacy as a criteria. He specifically excluded it.
Also, one other small item. Using those same numbers that people are citing as showing such drastic declines, Merritt estimated the number of active subscriptions at 175K and climbing.
- How can you talk if you haven't got a brain?
- I don't know, but some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't they?
>>> If you are playing the game, then despite the knee jerk reactions, Sigil already submitted to both Microsoft and Sony Online when they cut the deal for money. There is NEVER a loan with no strings attached in the Corporate world. If anything, knowing that SoE is backing the project should provide some relief in knowing that they won't be forced to pull the plug due to lack of capital.
I'm sorry, I just don't get the attitude of those who say they will quit if SoE buys the game. If you bought the game knowing SoE was the publisher and backer, then you already sold out to SoE, this is just another formality. I know, it's the old SWG stuff coming up again, however there is still a healthy EQ and EQ/2 out there that they seem to be doing quite well with. I guess I don't avoid Mac Donald's because their salads don't appeal to me anymore than I buy the Tofu burgers at the salad place. SoE has been quite good at this genre of MMoG's and Brad's Vision of VG was nothing more than a polished version of that.
So let me see if I can sort this out...
Taking $35 Million from investors and then releasing something that you admit should not have been released while charging the general public, based on boxed sales, another $10 Million Plus the subscriptions, makes you someone to trust enough even when you went back to the old company for backing.
Releasing a product that was built on technology designed to be affordable 6 months from now, even though that would be the high end systems of today that people are having problems with also makes you trust them so long as they don't let SoE buy them out?
Well, I guess you should trust SoE then, because like Brad, even though they hosed over the public with SWG, they did apologize, and as so many point out, that's what really counts?
Maybe it's just my flawed logic that comes to place here, but why would people be willing to stick it out with "Brad"; but not with SoE, when Sigil basically did the same exact things, just at release instead of later in the game? Wait...Wait... I know this one, because SoE made a huge mistake caving in to what the players demanded, thus ruining a game (SWG) where that can never happen here? Yep, we won't see things like easy experience or transporters in this game, it's for the pure of heart....well, that was till this patch of course.
Honestly, I like the game, bugs and all. Fact is it is getting better, however there would be NO game without SoE so it seems a little ironic to bash them and put 100% loyalty into the company that feeds off them.
I didn't play SWG post release but I played beta and read what the NGE did. Basically it made it Diablo style and added some run ins with R2-D2 and Han Solo for good measure. It basically made the game dumbed down after people worked their butts off for Jedi or some other class. I'm just saying that other games including EQ2, EQ1 and Vanguard were dumbed down as well. EQ2 went the solo route to compete with WOW, EQI added portals and god like weapons and Vanguard also toyed with XP levels and Death penalties to compete with WOW. It wasn't as bad as the SWG fiasco but certainly I would say there are people who like me never played SWG but still hold SOE in ill regard. Add in their wonderful customer service and I imagine it has it's Trolls for every game in their stable.
I still cant see the rather childish resentment towards SOE..yes they made a mess of SWG but given the meddling of LA even blizzard would have had a hard time turning that game into a winner.
Sigil have created a game that when (c'mon lets be fair it HAS to happen) SOE takes over they have the know how to hopefully make it work you only have to look towards the sublime EQ2 to see that given time and love and attention SOE can make great games,Sigil seemingly dont.
Its time to hand the game over to a company that knows what its doing and hopefully SOE can turn it around.
some are real and some are buddy keys. The buddy keys never paid for the box or the monthly
fee so they are nothing more than a free ride and brought no income to Sigil.
The graph suggests that a cash crunch is coming sooner rather than later. Perhaps the
rumor has surfaced to prepare people for what is coming.
some are real and some are buddy keys. The buddy keys never paid for the box or the monthly
fee so they are nothing more than a free ride and brought no income to Sigil.
The graph suggests that a cash crunch is coming sooner rather than later. Perhaps the
rumor has surfaced to prepare people for what is coming.
I think were also leaving out a large portion of the player base, the ALL ACCESS players. I know I intend to play VG less when I get the anniversary edition of EQ as well as when the next expansion to EQ2 is released. Since the income on these accounts is applied based on the percentage of SoE Games ~vs~ VG played, the numbers reflect a subscriber even if they logged in 10 minutes out of the month into VG.
Here, honestly is my concern:
I enjoy the game, bugs and all. Now if I invest ton's of time and Sigil can't pull it off, then I have ton's of hours into an empty server or no servers at all. Now I'm not saying that SoE holds some magic that will fix the game and build the numbers, hell the code could be so screwed up that could take a long time to happen. I do however feel that SoE adding the game to their overhead and structuring the staffing while utilizing their current resources may very well be more viable than Sigil having VG as a one horse show having to support itself on the game.
Call it a pet peeve, but they could start with the Forums. Had this game been released smoothly the affiliate system very well could have worked. Given the current circumstances, I for one feel like I would rather hear things from the horses mouth than gleam sites for tidbits of information.
This move was already foreseen long ago. SoE taking over VG. It was just a matter of time.
It was "when" and not "if "soe took it over.
So much for Brad and his "vision".
btw, Diplomacy is nothing but a joke, a bad joke at that.
Nothing but some dumb card game in the midst of another game.
If you dont like what they did..you dont need to take part in it. Its one thing to say you dont enjoy the Diplo sphere but its another to just declare it a bad joke...thats just insulting to people that enjoy it.
btw, card games are still popular in modern culture and many people play various card games for entertainment.
First, I think Sigil at first wanted to see it finished and see if they COULD get a player base, but soon realized what they suspected, and fell to plan "B". Unload the debt, product, and responsibility. This also led them to SoE, knowing they would love to get their hands on it.
SoE has been playing to get the game and add it to their collective, playing Sigil and through "helping" has been planning the buyout for some time. I'm sure they have charged them a premium for their services including 'loaner-devs'. Making Sigil go further in debt to SoE, debt that will be 'forgiven' if a structured buyout goes through.
But who's to say, just a rumor.
some are real and some are buddy keys. The buddy keys never paid for the box or the monthly
fee so they are nothing more than a free ride and brought no income to Sigil.
The graph suggests that a cash crunch is coming sooner rather than later. Perhaps the
rumor has surfaced to prepare people for what is coming.
I think were also leaving out a large portion of the player base, the ALL ACCESS players. I know I intend to play VG less when I get the anniversary edition of EQ as well as when the next expansion to EQ2 is released. Since the income on these accounts is applied based on the percentage of SoE Games ~vs~ VG played, the numbers reflect a subscriber even if they logged in 10 minutes out of the month into VG.
The beauty of data mining is that everyone is included regardless of what vehicle they use to get into
the game. What value would the VGPlayers website have, if it omitted the All Access players or any other
segment of the player population ? It would stand out like a sore thumb because someone would
wonder why their character was not listed. The value / beauty of data mining is that it has no biases.
If the data is presented to the world as valid (presumably VGPlayers is accurate or at least there have
been very few complaints about its content), then the data mined from it is accurate. Why accurate ?
Because given the same criteria and same source data, the mined information is available to anyone
and as such is repeatable and verifiable.
some are real and some are buddy keys. The buddy keys never paid for the box or the monthly
fee so they are nothing more than a free ride and brought no income to Sigil.
The graph suggests that a cash crunch is coming sooner rather than later. Perhaps the
rumor has surfaced to prepare people for what is coming.
Yes, it was active accounts, not subscriptions and I suspect that the cash crunch is already here. Otherwise they most likely would not have released early.
- How can you talk if you haven't got a brain?
- I don't know, but some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't they?