SOE put themselves into a bind somewhat because they added VG to the All Access and increased the monthly fee because of it. Therefore, they can not just tell Sigil to go pound sand like Microsoft did.
Now they are in bed with the Sigil more than they probably should be. My guess is that Brad is spinning more tales than Spiderman and telling them he can get 500k subsribers with a relaunch or some such crap as that. The SOE Excecutives probably have never seen the game outside of a demo in some office so they do not know how dire this game really is.
Either way I bet Brad will make out like a fat rat and get tons of money in the buyout. The rest of his company as well as the game itself will be screwed. Even more screwed than it already is.
If I were SOE I would just pull this game. I do not see any way they can recover. The underlying design as well as the underlying technology is so flawed I don't think it can be saved.
Why is it that when people make statistics up off the top of their head they are always a nice round number like 50 or 75 percent? Why never 63 percent? Or 71 percent?
SOE put themselves into a bind somewhat because they added VG to the All Access and increased the monthly fee because of it. Therefore, they can not just tell Sigil to go pound sand like Microsoft did. Now they are in bed with the Sigil more than they probably should be. My guess is that Brad is spinning more tales than Spiderman and telling them he can get 500k subsribers with a relaunch or some such crap as that. The SOE Excecutives probably have never seen the game outside of a demo in some office so they do not know how dire this game really is. Either way I bet Brad will make out like a fat rat and get tons of money in the buyout. The rest of his company as well as the game itself will be screwed. Even more screwed than it already is. If I were SOE I would just pull this game. I do not see any way they can recover. The underlying design as well as the underlying technology is so flawed I don't think it can be saved.
Could you ellaborate on the disign and technology flaws? Also could you direct me to the information regarding a buyout?
SOE put themselves into a bind somewhat because they added VG to the All Access and increased the monthly fee because of it. Therefore, they can not just tell Sigil to go pound sand like Microsoft did. Now they are in bed with the Sigil more than they probably should be. My guess is that Brad is spinning more tales than Spiderman and telling them he can get 500k subsribers with a relaunch or some such crap as that. The SOE Excecutives probably have never seen the game outside of a demo in some office so they do not know how dire this game really is. Either way I bet Brad will make out like a fat rat and get tons of money in the buyout. The rest of his company as well as the game itself will be screwed. Even more screwed than it already is. If I were SOE I would just pull this game. I do not see any way they can recover. The underlying design as well as the underlying technology is so flawed I don't think it can be saved.
Could you ellaborate on the disign and technology flaws? Also could you direct me to the information regarding a buyout?
SOE put themselves into a bind somewhat because they added VG to the All Access and increased the monthly fee because of it. Therefore, they can not just tell Sigil to go pound sand like Microsoft did. Now they are in bed with the Sigil more than they probably should be. My guess is that Brad is spinning more tales than Spiderman and telling them he can get 500k subsribers with a relaunch or some such crap as that. The SOE Excecutives probably have never seen the game outside of a demo in some office so they do not know how dire this game really is. Either way I bet Brad will make out like a fat rat and get tons of money in the buyout. The rest of his company as well as the game itself will be screwed. Even more screwed than it already is. If I were SOE I would just pull this game. I do not see any way they can recover. The underlying design as well as the underlying technology is so flawed I don't think it can be saved.
Could you ellaborate on the disign and technology flaws? Also could you direct me to the information regarding a buyout?
SOE put themselves into a bind somewhat because they added VG to the All Access and increased the monthly fee because of it. Therefore, they can not just tell Sigil to go pound sand like Microsoft did. Now they are in bed with the Sigil more than they probably should be. My guess is that Brad is spinning more tales than Spiderman and telling them he can get 500k subsribers with a relaunch or some such crap as that. The SOE Excecutives probably have never seen the game outside of a demo in some office so they do not know how dire this game really is. Either way I bet Brad will make out like a fat rat and get tons of money in the buyout. The rest of his company as well as the game itself will be screwed. Even more screwed than it already is. If I were SOE I would just pull this game. I do not see any way they can recover. The underlying design as well as the underlying technology is so flawed I don't think it can be saved.
Could you ellaborate on the disign and technology flaws? Also could you direct me to the information regarding a buyout?
SOE put themselves into a bind somewhat because they added VG to the All Access and increased the monthly fee because of it. Therefore, they can not just tell Sigil to go pound sand like Microsoft did. Now they are in bed with the Sigil more than they probably should be. My guess is that Brad is spinning more tales than Spiderman and telling them he can get 500k subsribers with a relaunch or some such crap as that. The SOE Excecutives probably have never seen the game outside of a demo in some office so they do not know how dire this game really is. Either way I bet Brad will make out like a fat rat and get tons of money in the buyout. The rest of his company as well as the game itself will be screwed. Even more screwed than it already is. If I were SOE I would just pull this game. I do not see any way they can recover. The underlying design as well as the underlying technology is so flawed I don't think it can be saved.
Could you ellaborate on the disign and technology flaws? Also could you direct me to the information regarding a buyout?
He never said what they were working on. He never said they were hammering out a deal for a buyout. He didn't say much of anything.
So once again, can you direct me to something that confirms that they are working on a buyout?
ok. You win. All is good with Vanguard and Brad is talking about nothing. Nothing is wrong and no changes will happen.
By the way VG has 500k subscribers too. Right? No. make that a million. No need for any change whatsoever.
You still haven't directed me to the link that says SoE is buying out VG or Sigil.
Know what people will typically do when they are caught in a lie? Get hostile.
Quote from Brads post:
SOE is in discussions with Sigil regarding the future of Vanguard and Sigil Games in Carlsbad. Talks are going well and first and foremost, our primary concern right now is what's best for Vanguard and its community. We want to ensure that this game and its community have a healthy future. The specifics that we work out over the coming days will all be with that single goal in mind."
Another quote:
Does this mean an acquisition? I can't say at this point.
Another quote:
What it does mean at this point is that both companies agree that we need more of SOE's involvement if Vanguard is going to continue to get the support it needs to both continue to be worked on and improved and debugged and optimized.
About the only truth you've provided is that I'm right. Good job!
SOE put themselves into a bind somewhat because they added VG to the All Access and increased the monthly fee because of it. Therefore, they can not just tell Sigil to go pound sand like Microsoft did. Now they are in bed with the Sigil more than they probably should be. My guess is that Brad is spinning more tales than Spiderman and telling them he can get 500k subsribers with a relaunch or some such crap as that. The SOE Excecutives probably have never seen the game outside of a demo in some office so they do not know how dire this game really is. Either way I bet Brad will make out like a fat rat and get tons of money in the buyout. The rest of his company as well as the game itself will be screwed. Even more screwed than it already is. If I were SOE I would just pull this game. I do not see any way they can recover. The underlying design as well as the underlying technology is so flawed I don't think it can be saved.
Could you ellaborate on the disign and technology flaws? Also could you direct me to the information regarding a buyout?
He never said what they were working on. He never said they were hammering out a deal for a buyout. He didn't say much of anything.
So once again, can you direct me to something that confirms that they are working on a buyout?
ok. You win. All is good with Vanguard and Brad is talking about nothing. Nothing is wrong and no changes will happen.
By the way VG has 500k subscribers too. Right? No. make that a million. No need for any change whatsoever.
You still haven't directed me to the link that says SoE is buying out VG or Sigil.
Know what people will typically do when they are caught in a lie? Get hostile.
Quote from Brads post:
SOE is in discussions with Sigil regarding the future of Vanguard and Sigil Games in Carlsbad. Talks are going well and first and foremost, our primary concern right now is what's best for Vanguard and its community. We want to ensure that this game and its community have a healthy future. The specifics that we work out over the coming days will all be with that single goal in mind."
Another quote:
Does this mean an acquisition? I can't say at this point.
Another quote:
What it does mean at this point is that both companies agree that we need more of SOE's involvement if Vanguard is going to continue to get the support it needs to both continue to be worked on and improved and debugged and optimized.
About the only truth you've provided is that I'm right. Good job!
They will be forced to turn the servers off if SOE does not buy it. There is no other option. They have major debt and and extremely low subscribtion base and about 100 Employees workiing on the game.
They released the game early because they were out of money. They are not in a better situation now.
When did Mcquaid say anything about SoE's aquiring VG or Sigil? I don't recall the word aquasition being used in the last post Mcquaid made. An example of a hypocrit would be saying that Mcquaid missinformed and lied about such and such; then taking information and then lying about it as well. A lot of people here continue to condemn the man for doing the exact same thing they themselves continue to do an a daily bases, even hourly. Mcquaid never said they were working on a deal for SoE to aquire the game or Sigil, only that further involvment was needed from SoE. This could mean any number of things from selling a portion of the IP rights to the selling of the full IP or even a portion to the full controll of Sigil itself. Hell, for as much as anyone here knows they could simply be working out a deal that would provide Sigil with increased developement to push for a relaunch. 75% chance huh? You know, I've been rubbing my crystal balls all day and I keep coming up with a completely dif. result. I guess mine are broken.
Everything comes at a cost. If SOE was unable to provide Sigil with additional funds to stave off an early release, what makes you think they are suddenly opening up the coffers to fund a "relaunch"? Do people understand how much this is going to cost? Bringing in additional developers, developing tools - all of that and more takes time and money especially if they want to do it right the second time.
Even if all of that happens, it makes no guarantee that subs will magically shoot up. Brad is talking about a 2008 "re-release" + expansion. That is 6+ months of paying a full staff to fix the mess.
SOE put themselves into a bind somewhat because they added VG to the All Access and increased the monthly fee because of it. Therefore, they can not just tell Sigil to go pound sand like Microsoft did. Now they are in bed with the Sigil more than they probably should be. My guess is that Brad is spinning more tales than Spiderman and telling them he can get 500k subsribers with a relaunch or some such crap as that. The SOE Excecutives probably have never seen the game outside of a demo in some office so they do not know how dire this game really is. Either way I bet Brad will make out like a fat rat and get tons of money in the buyout. The rest of his company as well as the game itself will be screwed. Even more screwed than it already is. If I were SOE I would just pull this game. I do not see any way they can recover. The underlying design as well as the underlying technology is so flawed I don't think it can be saved.
Could you ellaborate on the disign and technology flaws? Also could you direct me to the information regarding a buyout?
He never said what they were working on. He never said they were hammering out a deal for a buyout. He didn't say much of anything.
So once again, can you direct me to something that confirms that they are working on a buyout?
ok. You win. All is good with Vanguard and Brad is talking about nothing. Nothing is wrong and no changes will happen.
By the way VG has 500k subscribers too. Right? No. make that a million. No need for any change whatsoever.
You still haven't directed me to the link that says SoE is buying out VG or Sigil.
Know what people will typically do when they are caught in a lie? Get hostile.
Quote from Brads post:
SOE is in discussions with Sigil regarding the future of Vanguard and Sigil Games in Carlsbad. Talks are going well and first and foremost, our primary concern right now is what's best for Vanguard and its community. We want to ensure that this game and its community have a healthy future. The specifics that we work out over the coming days will all be with that single goal in mind."
Another quote:
Does this mean an acquisition? I can't say at this point.
Another quote:
What it does mean at this point is that both companies agree that we need more of SOE's involvement if Vanguard is going to continue to get the support it needs to both continue to be worked on and improved and debugged and optimized.
About the only truth you've provided is that I'm right. Good job!
They will be forced to turn the servers off if SOE does not buy it. There is no other option. They have major debt and and extremely low subscribtion base and about 100 Employees workiing on the game.
They released the game early because they were out of money. They are not in a better situation now.
Are you speculating or still making things up?
What's that you have written under your name? Something about the truth?
I suppose you can produce factual evidence that they would have to shut down, and that they have no other options.
SOE put themselves into a bind somewhat because they added VG to the All Access and increased the monthly fee because of it. Therefore, they can not just tell Sigil to go pound sand like Microsoft did. Now they are in bed with the Sigil more than they probably should be. My guess is that Brad is spinning more tales than Spiderman and telling them he can get 500k subsribers with a relaunch or some such crap as that. The SOE Excecutives probably have never seen the game outside of a demo in some office so they do not know how dire this game really is. Either way I bet Brad will make out like a fat rat and get tons of money in the buyout. The rest of his company as well as the game itself will be screwed. Even more screwed than it already is. If I were SOE I would just pull this game. I do not see any way they can recover. The underlying design as well as the underlying technology is so flawed I don't think it can be saved.
Could you ellaborate on the disign and technology flaws? Also could you direct me to the information regarding a buyout?
He never said what they were working on. He never said they were hammering out a deal for a buyout. He didn't say much of anything.
So once again, can you direct me to something that confirms that they are working on a buyout?
ok. You win. All is good with Vanguard and Brad is talking about nothing. Nothing is wrong and no changes will happen.
By the way VG has 500k subscribers too. Right? No. make that a million. No need for any change whatsoever.
You still haven't directed me to the link that says SoE is buying out VG or Sigil.
Know what people will typically do when they are caught in a lie? Get hostile.
Quote from Brads post:
SOE is in discussions with Sigil regarding the future of Vanguard and Sigil Games in Carlsbad. Talks are going well and first and foremost, our primary concern right now is what's best for Vanguard and its community. We want to ensure that this game and its community have a healthy future. The specifics that we work out over the coming days will all be with that single goal in mind."
Another quote:
Does this mean an acquisition? I can't say at this point.
Another quote:
What it does mean at this point is that both companies agree that we need more of SOE's involvement if Vanguard is going to continue to get the support it needs to both continue to be worked on and improved and debugged and optimized.
About the only truth you've provided is that I'm right. Good job!
They will be forced to turn the servers off if SOE does not buy it. There is no other option. They have major debt and and extremely low subscribtion base and about 100 Employees workiing on the game.
They released the game early because they were out of money. They are not in a better situation now.
Are you speculating or still making things up?
What's that you have written under your name? Something about the truth?
I suppose you can produce factual evidence that they would have to shut down, and that they have no other options.
I am done wih you. You are now dead to me. Let's wait and see who knows what.
When did Mcquaid say anything about SoE's aquiring VG or Sigil? I don't recall the word aquasition being used in the last post Mcquaid made. An example of a hypocrit would be saying that Mcquaid missinformed and lied about such and such; then taking information and then lying about it as well. A lot of people here continue to condemn the man for doing the exact same thing they themselves continue to do an a daily bases, even hourly. Mcquaid never said they were working on a deal for SoE to aquire the game or Sigil, only that further involvment was needed from SoE. This could mean any number of things from selling a portion of the IP rights to the selling of the full IP or even a portion to the full controll of Sigil itself. Hell, for as much as anyone here knows they could simply be working out a deal that would provide Sigil with increased developement to push for a relaunch. 75% chance huh? You know, I've been rubbing my crystal balls all day and I keep coming up with a completely dif. result. I guess mine are broken.
Everything comes at a cost. If SOE was unable to provide Sigil with additional funds to stave off an early release, what makes you think they are suddenly opening up the coffers to fund a "relaunch"? Do people understand how much this is going to cost? Bringing in additional developers, developing tools - all of that and more takes time and money especially if they want to do it right the second time.
Even if all of that happens, it makes no guarantee that subs will magically shoot up. Brad is talking about a 2008 "re-release" + expansion. That is 6+ months of paying a full staff to fix the mess.
I can agree with this 100%
My point was in regard to what is factually known now, and truth.
Mcquaid did not say they were selling out. Tnice can speculate till the sun burns out but when you state something as a fact and it's not then it's a lie.
Personally I'm inclined to thing that Mcquaid is in a position of either having to a portion of the IP, if not the entire thing, or some sort of absorbtion of Sigil into SoE. I can't imagine SoE simply throwing money at Sigil. I think thiers going to be a cost, but I wont tell you that this is truth or use what was written to support it. I'm speculating.
I also don't have a comment about truth under my name.
Everything comes at a cost. If SOE was unable to provide Sigil with additional funds to stave off an early release, what makes you think they are suddenly opening up the coffers to fund a "relaunch"? Do people understand how much this is going to cost? Bringing in additional developers, developing tools - all of that and more takes time and money especially if they want to do it right the second time. Even if all of that happens, it makes no guarantee that subs will magically shoot up. Brad is talking about a 2008 "re-release" + expansion. That is 6+ months of paying a full staff to fix the mess.
The other part of that is if Sony was unwilling to provide additional funds to stave off an early release. They might have looked at the game, and agreed to offer some help in the guise of the EQ2 dev team lending a hand to clean things up a bit near the end, but decided that it wouldn't be in their interest to invest any real money towards the game until it proved itself with subscription numbers.
Of course, that's just pure speculation on my part. But I don't think it's all that far fetched given all the time and money that had already been spent on Vanguard by the time they got it.
If something like this was the case, and any additional funding was tied to subscription performance, I couldn't see SOE wanting to invest in 6+ months of a full staff to fix or revamp the game, much less work on an expansion as well, unless they were in total control of it. That would mean a buyout, or full absorption of Sigil before they'd go any further. Again, pure speculation. But given the reality of the money involved no matter what happens, it's not all that implausible.
We won't know for sure until we hear from Brad again, or until there's some sort of official word, but I'm definitely interested in seeing where all of this is going to go.
Spin it any way you want Farlic but if it walks like a duck , and quacks like a duck , then the darn thing is probably a duck. I have been hearing rumors on a half dozen industry related boards since Friday that the talks were not going well, your posts just re enforce those rumors.
"You still haven't directed me to the link that says SoE is buying out VG or Sigil."
It is intuitively obvious that SoE would require complete control (i.e. buyout) of Sigil/Vanguard to provide any further assistance to this doomed pile of crap.
What remains to be seen is if SoE really is willing to step up and provide further assistance.
However it comes as no surprise that what is obvious to over 95% of people following this fiasco is unknown to the blind Vanbois.
Which is exactly why Sigil ended up releaseing a huge pile of crap in the first place and is in the position it is in now.
Spin it any way you want Farlic but if it walks like a duck , and quacks like a duck , then the darn thing is probably a duck. I have been hearing rumors on a half dozen industry related boards since Friday that the talks were not going well, your posts just re enforce those rumors.
Post links.
And a rumor isn't truth. It's a rumor. You know about as much as I do. Get over yourself.
Everything comes at a cost. If SOE was unable to provide Sigil with additional funds to stave off an early release, what makes you think they are suddenly opening up the coffers to fund a "relaunch"? Do people understand how much this is going to cost? Bringing in additional developers, developing tools - all of that and more takes time and money especially if they want to do it right the second time. Even if all of that happens, it makes no guarantee that subs will magically shoot up. Brad is talking about a 2008 "re-release" + expansion. That is 6+ months of paying a full staff to fix the mess.
The other part of that is if Sony was unwilling to provide additional funds to stave off an early release. They might have looked at the game, and agreed to offer some help in the guise of the EQ2 dev team lending a hand to clean things up a bit near the end, but decided that it wouldn't be in their interest to invest any real money towards the game until it proved itself with subscription numbers.
Of course, that's just pure speculation on my part. But I don't think it's all that far fetched given all the time and money that had already been spent on Vanguard by the time they got it.
If something like this was the case, and any additional funding was tied to subscription performance, I couldn't see SOE wanting to invest in 6+ months of a full staff to fix or revamp the game, much less work on an expansion as well, unless they were in total control of it. That would mean a buyout, or full absorption of Sigil before they'd go any further. Again, pure speculation. But given the reality of the money involved no matter what happens, it's not all that implausible.
We won't know for sure until we hear from Brad again, or until there's some sort of official word, but I'm definitely interested in seeing where all of this is going to go.
Actually, they wouldn't have spent money to "stave off" an early release, as you put it so well. Sony's never released a finished game. "Never completely finished" has been the mantra for ALL of their releases, they say that like it's a good thing.
What they fail to see is that the idea than an MMO is never "finished" means things like new content, slight improvements to gameplay... NOT that core systems aren't complete, NOT that the game is broken at release.
It has been proven that $OE has released products that were unfinished INTENTIONALLY. That EQ race that Smed promoted wasn't even coded into the expansion yet (don't know the specifics, I don't EQ). The Jedi functionality wasn't live at launch of SWG. The list goes on from there.
They've even taken it to absurd new heights, with SWG's new "Pay to beta" philosophy. John Smedley himself said SWG was "Nowhere near fun right now" two months after the nge was launched... but did he suspend billing until it was "fun"? No way.. keep on feeding the beast.
So to think that $OE would hesitate for a second in releasing a broken game, is just plain wrong based on how they do things. They rush things out early so they can get the cashflow started THEN try to band-aid it to a working product.
Which is why they've gone from #1 in the MMO market to #4 in 2 short years.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Spin it any way you want Farlic but if it walks like a duck , and quacks like a duck , then the darn thing is probably a duck. I have been hearing rumors on a half dozen industry related boards since Friday that the talks were not going well, your posts just re enforce those rumors.
Well the OP admits he is speculating, he say the he has not heard anything.
You state you actually heard something, although you safeguard it by calling it a rumour.
Actually, I am also interested to read these s.c. rumours. Regardless of any spin.
Everything comes at a cost. If SOE was unable to provide Sigil with additional funds to stave off an early release, what makes you think they are suddenly opening up the coffers to fund a "relaunch"? Do people understand how much this is going to cost? Bringing in additional developers, developing tools - all of that and more takes time and money especially if they want to do it right the second time. Even if all of that happens, it makes no guarantee that subs will magically shoot up. Brad is talking about a 2008 "re-release" + expansion. That is 6+ months of paying a full staff to fix the mess.
The other part of that is if Sony was unwilling to provide additional funds to stave off an early release. They might have looked at the game, and agreed to offer some help in the guise of the EQ2 dev team lending a hand to clean things up a bit near the end, but decided that it wouldn't be in their interest to invest any real money towards the game until it proved itself with subscription numbers.
Of course, that's just pure speculation on my part. But I don't think it's all that far fetched given all the time and money that had already been spent on Vanguard by the time they got it.
If something like this was the case, and any additional funding was tied to subscription performance, I couldn't see SOE wanting to invest in 6+ months of a full staff to fix or revamp the game, much less work on an expansion as well, unless they were in total control of it. That would mean a buyout, or full absorption of Sigil before they'd go any further. Again, pure speculation. But given the reality of the money involved no matter what happens, it's not all that implausible.
We won't know for sure until we hear from Brad again, or until there's some sort of official word, but I'm definitely interested in seeing where all of this is going to go.
Actually, they wouldn't have spent money to "stave off" an early release, as you put it so well. Sony's never released a finished game. "Never completely finished" has been the mantra for ALL of their releases, they say that like it's a good thing.
NOT that core systems aren't complete, NOT that the game is broken at release.
That EQ race that Smed promoted wasn't even coded into the expansion yet (don't know the specifics, I don't EQ). The Jedi functionality wasn't live at launch of SWG. .
FFS, just step of the "I HATE EVERYTHING SOE BECAUSE THEY KILLED MY BELOVED SWG" crying pedal for a sec ok.
First of all:,
SoE has released finished producs that made a huge market.EQ, EQ2, Planetside, and tons of smaller MMO, go look on their site. They were finished and they STILL support them.
Second:
SIGIL released an unfinished product, not SoE.....SoE had no chance to release it because of lack of funds....did you read brad's posts? He even tells you why.
If SoE didn't help Sigil out....if SoE didn't put EQ2 programmers on Vanguard <<<<<<<<<< are you reading this?<<<<<<<<< VG wouldn't have even been released.
I don't really care what SoE did to your SWG, I could give a **(& about SWG. I just hate people bashing SoE for everything and anything because of their stupid game. How does what you write about SWG, even remotely relate to vanguard.
Spin it any way you want Farlic but if it walks like a duck , and quacks like a duck , then the darn thing is probably a duck. I have been hearing rumors on a half dozen industry related boards since Friday that the talks were not going well, your posts just re enforce those rumors.
Post links.
And a rumor isn't truth. It's a rumor. You know about as much as I do. Get over yourself.
Heh some are private boards, some were PMs. Like you said any way it does not really matter since this all speculation until the press conference is held. As far as what I know, I am not in the software business. However I know some who are because I am in a support business so I do get around more than you may think.
Just my opinion here but the best thing that could happen with the game and get me interested in it again is if SOE buys em out lock, stock, and barrel.
Spin it any way you want Farlic but if it walks like a duck , and quacks like a duck , then the darn thing is probably a duck. I have been hearing rumors on a half dozen industry related boards since Friday that the talks were not going well, your posts just re enforce those rumors.
Post links.
And a rumor isn't truth. It's a rumor. You know about as much as I do. Get over yourself.
Heh some are private boards, some were PMs. Like you said any way it does not really matter since this all speculation until the press conference is held. As far as what I know, I am not in the software business. However I know some who are because I am in a support business so I do get around more than you may think.
Just my opinion here but the best thing that could happen with the game and get me interested in it again is if SOE buys em out lock, stock, and barrel.
Unbelievably we can agree on something. SoE needs to buyout VG.
Originally posted by Jackdog Spin it any way you want Farlic but if it walks like a duck , and quacks like a duck , then the darn thing is probably a duck. I have been hearing rumors on a half dozen industry related boards since Friday that the talks were not going well, your posts just re enforce those rumors.
Post links. And a rumor isn't truth. It's a rumor. You know about as much as I do. Get over yourself.
Heh some are private boards, some were PMs. Like you said any way it does not really matter since this all speculation until the press conference is held. As far as what I know, I am not in the software business. However I know some who are because I am in a support business so I do get around more than you may think.
Just my opinion here but the best thing that could happen with the game and get me interested in it again is if SOE buys em out lock, stock, and barrel.
Unbelievably we can agree on something. SoE needs to buyout VG.
Heh no kidding.
As far as my reasoning goes , if SOE does not then Sigil will have to do a chapter 11 and someone will buy them out for pennies on the dollar and looking at Horizons history will show what would happen then.
Even though I do not care for the game myself I do think it would make a fine little niche game for the original demographic that it was slated for at it's conception. McQuaid just hosed it up trying to turn it into a swiss army knife of MMORPGs and as much as I am sure his intentions were good, he should have concentrated on making it for a smaller dedicated fan base and a unique game.
The hard thing will be how to overcome the large world size at his point. The games large world size needs a large population to match or it will fell empty. No matter what happens there are several serious obstacles to overcome, the hardware and bugs being the least of it,
I played Van for about 2-3 days @ Launch and gave it up, and I am now coming back (currently updating, which is taking forever) I don't care what happens as long as the game continues to get fixes, patches, and attention I am happy.
http://www.warriornation.net Current MMO: LoTRO LForward: The Agency Played MMO: V:SoH, SWG, WoW, EVE, RFO, FFXI, LOTRO, EQ, AoC, EQII, AA, COH/V, D&D, LII, SL, DAoC, AL, PS, SB, CO, AO, TR.
Comments
SOE put themselves into a bind somewhat because they added VG to the All Access and increased the monthly fee because of it. Therefore, they can not just tell Sigil to go pound sand like Microsoft did.
Now they are in bed with the Sigil more than they probably should be. My guess is that Brad is spinning more tales than Spiderman and telling them he can get 500k subsribers with a relaunch or some such crap as that. The SOE Excecutives probably have never seen the game outside of a demo in some office so they do not know how dire this game really is.
Either way I bet Brad will make out like a fat rat and get tons of money in the buyout. The rest of his company as well as the game itself will be screwed. Even more screwed than it already is.
If I were SOE I would just pull this game. I do not see any way they can recover. The underlying design as well as the underlying technology is so flawed I don't think it can be saved.
-Currently looking forward to FFXIV
-Currently playing EvE and Global Agenda
I am not going to restate the myriad design and technical problems with VG. Search the forums for that information. As far as the buyout is concerned check out Brad's note at http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=8569.
I am not going to restate the myriad design and technical problems with VG. Search the forums for that information. As far as the buyout is concerned check out Brad's note at http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=8569.
Funny, I read that the day it was posted.
He never said what they were working on. He never said they were hammering out a deal for a buyout. He didn't say much of anything.
So once again, can you direct me to something that confirms that they are working on a buyout?
I am not going to restate the myriad design and technical problems with VG. Search the forums for that information. As far as the buyout is concerned check out Brad's note at http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=8569.
Funny, I read that the day it was posted.
He never said what they were working on. He never said they were hammering out a deal for a buyout. He didn't say much of anything.
So once again, can you direct me to something that confirms that they are working on a buyout?
ok. You win. All is good with Vanguard and Brad is talking about nothing. Nothing is wrong and no changes will happen.
By the way VG has 500k subscribers too. Right? No. make that a million. No need for any change whatsoever.
I am not going to restate the myriad design and technical problems with VG. Search the forums for that information. As far as the buyout is concerned check out Brad's note at http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=8569.
Funny, I read that the day it was posted.
He never said what they were working on. He never said they were hammering out a deal for a buyout. He didn't say much of anything.
So once again, can you direct me to something that confirms that they are working on a buyout?
ok. You win. All is good with Vanguard and Brad is talking about nothing. Nothing is wrong and no changes will happen.
By the way VG has 500k subscribers too. Right? No. make that a million. No need for any change whatsoever.
You still haven't directed me to the link that says SoE is buying out VG or Sigil.
Know what people will typically do when they are caught in a lie? Get hostile.
Quote from Brads post:
SOE is in discussions with Sigil regarding the future of Vanguard and Sigil Games in Carlsbad. Talks are going well and first and foremost, our primary concern right now is what's best for Vanguard and its community. We want to ensure that this game and its community have a healthy future. The specifics that we work out over the coming days will all be with that single goal in mind."
Another quote:
Does this mean an acquisition? I can't say at this point.
Another quote:
What it does mean at this point is that both companies agree that we need more of SOE's involvement if Vanguard is going to continue to get the support it needs to both continue to be worked on and improved and debugged and optimized.
About the only truth you've provided is that I'm right. Good job!
I am not going to restate the myriad design and technical problems with VG. Search the forums for that information. As far as the buyout is concerned check out Brad's note at http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=8569.
Funny, I read that the day it was posted.
He never said what they were working on. He never said they were hammering out a deal for a buyout. He didn't say much of anything.
So once again, can you direct me to something that confirms that they are working on a buyout?
ok. You win. All is good with Vanguard and Brad is talking about nothing. Nothing is wrong and no changes will happen.
By the way VG has 500k subscribers too. Right? No. make that a million. No need for any change whatsoever.
You still haven't directed me to the link that says SoE is buying out VG or Sigil.
Know what people will typically do when they are caught in a lie? Get hostile.
Quote from Brads post:
SOE is in discussions with Sigil regarding the future of Vanguard and Sigil Games in Carlsbad. Talks are going well and first and foremost, our primary concern right now is what's best for Vanguard and its community. We want to ensure that this game and its community have a healthy future. The specifics that we work out over the coming days will all be with that single goal in mind."
Another quote:
Does this mean an acquisition? I can't say at this point.
Another quote:
What it does mean at this point is that both companies agree that we need more of SOE's involvement if Vanguard is going to continue to get the support it needs to both continue to be worked on and improved and debugged and optimized.
About the only truth you've provided is that I'm right. Good job!
They will be forced to turn the servers off if SOE does not buy it. There is no other option. They have major debt and and extremely low subscribtion base and about 100 Employees workiing on the game.
They released the game early because they were out of money. They are not in a better situation now.
Everything comes at a cost. If SOE was unable to provide Sigil with additional funds to stave off an early release, what makes you think they are suddenly opening up the coffers to fund a "relaunch"? Do people understand how much this is going to cost? Bringing in additional developers, developing tools - all of that and more takes time and money especially if they want to do it right the second time.
Even if all of that happens, it makes no guarantee that subs will magically shoot up. Brad is talking about a 2008 "re-release" + expansion. That is 6+ months of paying a full staff to fix the mess.
I am not going to restate the myriad design and technical problems with VG. Search the forums for that information. As far as the buyout is concerned check out Brad's note at http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=8569.
Funny, I read that the day it was posted.
He never said what they were working on. He never said they were hammering out a deal for a buyout. He didn't say much of anything.
So once again, can you direct me to something that confirms that they are working on a buyout?
ok. You win. All is good with Vanguard and Brad is talking about nothing. Nothing is wrong and no changes will happen.
By the way VG has 500k subscribers too. Right? No. make that a million. No need for any change whatsoever.
You still haven't directed me to the link that says SoE is buying out VG or Sigil.
Know what people will typically do when they are caught in a lie? Get hostile.
Quote from Brads post:
SOE is in discussions with Sigil regarding the future of Vanguard and Sigil Games in Carlsbad. Talks are going well and first and foremost, our primary concern right now is what's best for Vanguard and its community. We want to ensure that this game and its community have a healthy future. The specifics that we work out over the coming days will all be with that single goal in mind."
Another quote:
Does this mean an acquisition? I can't say at this point.
Another quote:
What it does mean at this point is that both companies agree that we need more of SOE's involvement if Vanguard is going to continue to get the support it needs to both continue to be worked on and improved and debugged and optimized.
About the only truth you've provided is that I'm right. Good job!
They will be forced to turn the servers off if SOE does not buy it. There is no other option. They have major debt and and extremely low subscribtion base and about 100 Employees workiing on the game.
They released the game early because they were out of money. They are not in a better situation now.
Are you speculating or still making things up?
What's that you have written under your name? Something about the truth?
I suppose you can produce factual evidence that they would have to shut down, and that they have no other options.
I am not going to restate the myriad design and technical problems with VG. Search the forums for that information. As far as the buyout is concerned check out Brad's note at http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=8569.
Funny, I read that the day it was posted.
He never said what they were working on. He never said they were hammering out a deal for a buyout. He didn't say much of anything.
So once again, can you direct me to something that confirms that they are working on a buyout?
ok. You win. All is good with Vanguard and Brad is talking about nothing. Nothing is wrong and no changes will happen.
By the way VG has 500k subscribers too. Right? No. make that a million. No need for any change whatsoever.
You still haven't directed me to the link that says SoE is buying out VG or Sigil.
Know what people will typically do when they are caught in a lie? Get hostile.
Quote from Brads post:
SOE is in discussions with Sigil regarding the future of Vanguard and Sigil Games in Carlsbad. Talks are going well and first and foremost, our primary concern right now is what's best for Vanguard and its community. We want to ensure that this game and its community have a healthy future. The specifics that we work out over the coming days will all be with that single goal in mind."
Another quote:
Does this mean an acquisition? I can't say at this point.
Another quote:
What it does mean at this point is that both companies agree that we need more of SOE's involvement if Vanguard is going to continue to get the support it needs to both continue to be worked on and improved and debugged and optimized.
About the only truth you've provided is that I'm right. Good job!
They will be forced to turn the servers off if SOE does not buy it. There is no other option. They have major debt and and extremely low subscribtion base and about 100 Employees workiing on the game.
They released the game early because they were out of money. They are not in a better situation now.
Are you speculating or still making things up?
What's that you have written under your name? Something about the truth?
I suppose you can produce factual evidence that they would have to shut down, and that they have no other options.
I am done wih you. You are now dead to me. Let's wait and see who knows what.
Everything comes at a cost. If SOE was unable to provide Sigil with additional funds to stave off an early release, what makes you think they are suddenly opening up the coffers to fund a "relaunch"? Do people understand how much this is going to cost? Bringing in additional developers, developing tools - all of that and more takes time and money especially if they want to do it right the second time.
Even if all of that happens, it makes no guarantee that subs will magically shoot up. Brad is talking about a 2008 "re-release" + expansion. That is 6+ months of paying a full staff to fix the mess.
I can agree with this 100%
My point was in regard to what is factually known now, and truth.
Mcquaid did not say they were selling out. Tnice can speculate till the sun burns out but when you state something as a fact and it's not then it's a lie.
Personally I'm inclined to thing that Mcquaid is in a position of either having to a portion of the IP, if not the entire thing, or some sort of absorbtion of Sigil into SoE. I can't imagine SoE simply throwing money at Sigil. I think thiers going to be a cost, but I wont tell you that this is truth or use what was written to support it. I'm speculating.
I also don't have a comment about truth under my name.
You can debate fact or you can debate your opinion. You can not debate your opinion as fact Tnice.
I also would prefer to be cremated and a simply memorial service will suffice. Nothing extravagant. If you can, get a clown to.
AC (retired); EQ (retired); DAoC (retired); Horizons (retired); EQII (retired); CoH (retired); AC II (tested); Lineage II (beta); Neocron (tested); Saga of Ryzom (beta); SWG (retired)...
The other part of that is if Sony was unwilling to provide additional funds to stave off an early release. They might have looked at the game, and agreed to offer some help in the guise of the EQ2 dev team lending a hand to clean things up a bit near the end, but decided that it wouldn't be in their interest to invest any real money towards the game until it proved itself with subscription numbers.
Of course, that's just pure speculation on my part. But I don't think it's all that far fetched given all the time and money that had already been spent on Vanguard by the time they got it.
If something like this was the case, and any additional funding was tied to subscription performance, I couldn't see SOE wanting to invest in 6+ months of a full staff to fix or revamp the game, much less work on an expansion as well, unless they were in total control of it. That would mean a buyout, or full absorption of Sigil before they'd go any further. Again, pure speculation. But given the reality of the money involved no matter what happens, it's not all that implausible.
We won't know for sure until we hear from Brad again, or until there's some sort of official word, but I'm definitely interested in seeing where all of this is going to go.
I miss DAoC
"You still haven't directed me to the link that says SoE is buying out VG or Sigil."
It is intuitively obvious that SoE would require complete control (i.e. buyout) of Sigil/Vanguard to provide any further assistance to this doomed pile of crap.
What remains to be seen is if SoE really is willing to step up and provide further assistance.
However it comes as no surprise that what is obvious to over 95% of people following this fiasco is unknown to the blind Vanbois.
Which is exactly why Sigil ended up releaseing a huge pile of crap in the first place and is in the position it is in now.
Post links.
And a rumor isn't truth. It's a rumor. You know about as much as I do. Get over yourself.
The other part of that is if Sony was unwilling to provide additional funds to stave off an early release. They might have looked at the game, and agreed to offer some help in the guise of the EQ2 dev team lending a hand to clean things up a bit near the end, but decided that it wouldn't be in their interest to invest any real money towards the game until it proved itself with subscription numbers.
Of course, that's just pure speculation on my part. But I don't think it's all that far fetched given all the time and money that had already been spent on Vanguard by the time they got it.
If something like this was the case, and any additional funding was tied to subscription performance, I couldn't see SOE wanting to invest in 6+ months of a full staff to fix or revamp the game, much less work on an expansion as well, unless they were in total control of it. That would mean a buyout, or full absorption of Sigil before they'd go any further. Again, pure speculation. But given the reality of the money involved no matter what happens, it's not all that implausible.
We won't know for sure until we hear from Brad again, or until there's some sort of official word, but I'm definitely interested in seeing where all of this is going to go.
Actually, they wouldn't have spent money to "stave off" an early release, as you put it so well. Sony's never released a finished game. "Never completely finished" has been the mantra for ALL of their releases, they say that like it's a good thing.
What they fail to see is that the idea than an MMO is never "finished" means things like new content, slight improvements to gameplay... NOT that core systems aren't complete, NOT that the game is broken at release.
It has been proven that $OE has released products that were unfinished INTENTIONALLY. That EQ race that Smed promoted wasn't even coded into the expansion yet (don't know the specifics, I don't EQ). The Jedi functionality wasn't live at launch of SWG. The list goes on from there.
They've even taken it to absurd new heights, with SWG's new "Pay to beta" philosophy. John Smedley himself said SWG was "Nowhere near fun right now" two months after the nge was launched... but did he suspend billing until it was "fun"? No way.. keep on feeding the beast.
So to think that $OE would hesitate for a second in releasing a broken game, is just plain wrong based on how they do things. They rush things out early so they can get the cashflow started THEN try to band-aid it to a working product.
Which is why they've gone from #1 in the MMO market to #4 in 2 short years.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
You state you actually heard something, although you safeguard it by calling it a rumour.
Actually, I am also interested to read these s.c. rumours. Regardless of any spin.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
The other part of that is if Sony was unwilling to provide additional funds to stave off an early release. They might have looked at the game, and agreed to offer some help in the guise of the EQ2 dev team lending a hand to clean things up a bit near the end, but decided that it wouldn't be in their interest to invest any real money towards the game until it proved itself with subscription numbers.
Of course, that's just pure speculation on my part. But I don't think it's all that far fetched given all the time and money that had already been spent on Vanguard by the time they got it.
If something like this was the case, and any additional funding was tied to subscription performance, I couldn't see SOE wanting to invest in 6+ months of a full staff to fix or revamp the game, much less work on an expansion as well, unless they were in total control of it. That would mean a buyout, or full absorption of Sigil before they'd go any further. Again, pure speculation. But given the reality of the money involved no matter what happens, it's not all that implausible.
We won't know for sure until we hear from Brad again, or until there's some sort of official word, but I'm definitely interested in seeing where all of this is going to go.
Actually, they wouldn't have spent money to "stave off" an early release, as you put it so well. Sony's never released a finished game. "Never completely finished" has been the mantra for ALL of their releases, they say that like it's a good thing.
NOT that core systems aren't complete, NOT that the game is broken at release.
That EQ race that Smed promoted wasn't even coded into the expansion yet (don't know the specifics, I don't EQ). The Jedi functionality wasn't live at launch of SWG. .
FFS, just step of the "I HATE EVERYTHING SOE BECAUSE THEY KILLED MY BELOVED SWG" crying pedal for a sec ok.
First of all:,
SoE has released finished producs that made a huge market.EQ, EQ2, Planetside, and tons of smaller MMO, go look on their site. They were finished and they STILL support them.
Second:
SIGIL released an unfinished product, not SoE.....SoE had no chance to release it because of lack of funds....did you read brad's posts? He even tells you why.
If SoE didn't help Sigil out....if SoE didn't put EQ2 programmers on Vanguard <<<<<<<<<< are you reading this?<<<<<<<<< VG wouldn't have even been released.
I don't really care what SoE did to your SWG, I could give a **(& about SWG. I just hate people bashing SoE for everything and anything because of their stupid game. How does what you write about SWG, even remotely relate to vanguard.
Post links.
And a rumor isn't truth. It's a rumor. You know about as much as I do. Get over yourself.
Heh some are private boards, some were PMs. Like you said any way it does not really matter since this all speculation until the press conference is held. As far as what I know, I am not in the software business. However I know some who are because I am in a support business so I do get around more than you may think.Just my opinion here but the best thing that could happen with the game and get me interested in it again is if SOE buys em out lock, stock, and barrel.
I miss DAoC
Post links.
And a rumor isn't truth. It's a rumor. You know about as much as I do. Get over yourself.
Heh some are private boards, some were PMs. Like you said any way it does not really matter since this all speculation until the press conference is held. As far as what I know, I am not in the software business. However I know some who are because I am in a support business so I do get around more than you may think.Just my opinion here but the best thing that could happen with the game and get me interested in it again is if SOE buys em out lock, stock, and barrel.
Unbelievably we can agree on something. SoE needs to buyout VG.
As far as my reasoning goes , if SOE does not then Sigil will have to do a chapter 11 and someone will buy them out for pennies on the dollar and looking at Horizons history will show what would happen then.
Even though I do not care for the game myself I do think it would make a fine little niche game for the original demographic that it was slated for at it's conception. McQuaid just hosed it up trying to turn it into a swiss army knife of MMORPGs and as much as I am sure his intentions were good, he should have concentrated on making it for a smaller dedicated fan base and a unique game.
The hard thing will be how to overcome the large world size at his point. The games large world size needs a large population to match or it will fell empty. No matter what happens there are several serious obstacles to overcome, the hardware and bugs being the least of it,
I miss DAoC
http://www.warriornation.net
Current MMO: LoTRO
LForward: The Agency
Played MMO: V:SoH, SWG, WoW, EVE, RFO, FFXI, LOTRO, EQ, AoC, EQII, AA, COH/V, D&D, LII, SL, DAoC, AL, PS, SB, CO, AO, TR.