A lot of people get nhilism and atheism confused. Atheists may not believe in god/God/G-D/gods, but most still have a belief in something whther that be themselves or something more existential. Buddhists are atheist, except for maybe a few sects who treat buddha as a deity, to compensate for traditions. For me I'm an agnostic/pantheist. God is a very malliable word, and for rightnow the western religions have hijacked the concept. To me god is just a word meaning something greater then us whether it's concious or not.
A good example of my belief is how things are made up of something smaller and smaller. Cells are living things that think for themselves in a very primitive way, but we are made up of them that forms a collective concious. Except for them they do not think of their own exhist, they just exhist and perform their duties, as we do. No one can prove if our exhistance is meaningless, it's only meaningless if we havent done anything ever in our lives to survive. Anyway blah blah blah. Dont make this a heated debate guys, it's just going to turn out like any other religious debate ona an internet forum. Have some humility, and if a christian bothers you with their wanting to "save" you just realise it's in good intentions and tell them your not interested. Fundamentalist atheists are the same as fundamentalist christians/jews/ or muslims. Wisdom is important, your not as logical as the discovery channel, or history channel tricks you into thinking. Just live your life. Atheists can be more self rightous then any other belief/religion. Atheism now these days seems to even be developing traditions, the sign of another religion. Not all atheists are logical.
It's the highlighted part that bothers me.
A man in a starbucks one day, as I was getting coffee and minding my own, spent 30 minutes trying to convince me that I would be going to hell. I politely explained that for an athiest there is no hell, and for a true athiest there is no conversion.
A man knocked on my door one day and spent 30 minutes trying to convince me that I was not truelly happy because I had not excepted Jesus Christ as my personal lord and savior. I politely explained that if I needed to believe in God, and Jesus Christ, to be happy then I was not "truelly" happy.
It takes a lot of balls to stand before another man and tell them how they should think, and feel. This is something I haven't the nerve to do, but others feel compelled to do to me.
The next time you call someone self rightous I would like you to look in the newspaper or turn on CNN, or any other program reporting world news, and find the athiest blowing things up or killing in the name of thier God. The day a war is started over the belief of an athiest I'll agree with you. Untill then, you are wrong.
For gigles. The definition of an agnostic:
Agnosticism (from the Greeka, meaning "without", and Gnosticism or gnosis, meaning knowledge) means unknowable, and is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims—particularly theological claims regarding metaphysics, afterlife or the existence of God, god(s), or deities—is unknown or, depending on the form of agnosticism, inherently unknowable.
Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge of God or gods; or, alternatively, that while certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge. Agnosticism in both cases involves some form of skepticism.
Demographic research services normally list agnostics in the same category as atheists and non-religious people,[1] although this can be misleading depending on the number of agnostic theists who identify themselves first as agnostics and second as followers of a particular religion.
I didnt call anyone specifically self rightous, and your ersonal experiences arent a good explanation. I didnt call all atheist self rightout, I said they CAN be, just as any other religous person can be reasonable and self rightous, so dont assume I was directing any negativity at you. And youa re making assumptins based on what I said. Agnosticism is much more complicated than that and it doesnt always have to do with god. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism. You made assumptions and stereotyped me, and only found something in what i had to say and spinned it. I am agnostic, and I know what it is so dont lecture me on the definition, I wouldnt have said it if i didnt know the meaning.
And it's ignorant of you to think that all atheists are as calm as you are when explaining something to a christian the reason you dont want to be converted. There are also atheists who go out of their way to tell christians and other religions what to think.
The agnostic definition wasn't for you. A lot of people use it like it's interchangable with the word athiest.
But, what you chose to type was: Atheists can be more self rightous then any other belief/religion
I can only read it as you have written it.
Edit: I haven't made any gross generalizations, nor delved into my beliefs other then to indicate that I am an athiest. Refer to the red type please.
They CAN BE more self rightous, which means they have just as much ability as any other belief system. I didnt say THEY ARE more self rightous. They playing field is even on both sides.
I apologize to you Dante. I'm tired with and dealing with a migraine.
I'm being to hard and you are right. I'm reading more then I should into what you wrote.
If we want to keep religion out of the government, why even have a government? Where do our laws and such come from? What makes them right or wrong? Some one, Christian or not, is forcing their beliefs of right on wrong on us, so does it really matter who it is?
Without a god, or a "higher power," we must be amoral (not to be confused with immoral), so there can't really be any right or wrong, or any need for a government.
Why are we having a religous discussion in a game forum? If it should be anywhere, it should be in the Off Topic forum. I come here to discuss games, not everyones point of view on life, politics and religon
Why are we having a religous discussion in a game forum? If it should be anywhere, it should be in the Off Topic forum. I come here to discuss games, not everyones point of view on life, politics and religon
If you read the first post, the OP realized he used the wrong forum after he posted it and we're waiting for a mod or admin or something to move it.
In the fictional universe of WH40k, The Emperor of Mankind unifies Earth under one rule after a long hard-fought century of warfare, abolishing religion in the process. His forces end up having to kill a hefty portion of the planet in order to achieve this costly victory.
Were that to happen in this reality, i don't doubt that a large portion of our population would fight for their faith.
Is that noble or foolish? Fighting and dying for your beleifs? Throwing your life away for mystical what-ifs?
I can respect people who choose to live their life as how they believe a benevolent god would want them to.
I can't respect people who choose to murder and harm others in the name of those same beliefs.
As I understand it you cannot assume that nothing is real unless you experience the religions or whatever it is you do not believe in, for instance if you never believed in buddhism and never got into the practice or read one book on it then that makes you a fool im sorry, but it does. You need to experience and explore religions and beliefs before you assume nothing is real. It takes experience to judge anything in life including religions and beliefs. I for one believe but I dont believe in a specific religion because all books and religions are written byhuman beings which is bound to be flawed maybe not all of them but most, but I think there are half truths in them if anything and if you put them together there all pretty similar some where stolen from others and etc.
You do not have to follow a religion to believe you can just know something is out there and something beyond your prespective of understanding and beyond the eyes of your own being is around and within you.
Buddhism is a bad example. Buddhists do not worship "the Buddha". In fact "The Buddha" told people not to follow him. That the only way to enlightenment is thru cleansing of everything that is of the world. Thus emptiness in mind. In part a traditional buddhist would make even a atheist look religious.
As to atheism and religion. No one really knows why they are usually better scholars than someone who is actually of that religion. Almost like they are searching for something. I am not atheist. So really i could not tell you why some Atheists do it. Although i have heard they do it for other than the reason I stated.
Agnosticism means unknowable, and is the view that the truth value of certain claims - particularly theological claims regarding metaphysics, afterlife or the existence of God, god(s), or deities is unknown or inherently unknowable.
Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge of God or gods; or, alternatively, that while certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge.
I felt that this needed saying again, cleaned up a bit, as it's the single most important part of this thread, IMHO.
My father asked me once if I believed in Jesus. I'm still not certain why he asked. I carefully responded with "yes and no." He turned and gave me a confused look. I explained to him that I didn't know if Jesus is real or if he is our Saviour, and that it was impossible to know, but religion isn't about the man. Religion is a tool to make people do what they are supposed to do anyways - respect each other, refrain from killing/harming other people, the list goes on. I don't need to believe in Jesus to believe that the above list applies to me and I should do these things without question, and without expecting anything (including entry into Heaven, if there is such a thing) as reward.
I think religion and MMOs have more in common than people realize, in that we participate at first because it's interesting and meaningful, and later on because we feel like we have to in order to keep up with our neighbors. If it's not engaging AND rewarding, it isn't worth doing.
This debate is stupid. Noone will ever win this debate since we as human beings are made to disagree. We were made with different views and morals due to childhood experiences and how we were raised.
I for one am an atheist. I don't believe in a God. I don't pray, or any of that. And I am still a sane person. I view religion as a way to control society, to keep them in check; a different branch of law if you will. As said in previous posts, religion is the greatest of all evils. Political leaders, or people in general [i]can[/i] use religion to justify their actions which is ridiculous. To me, religion is for the people that are confused. They look for purpose in life and ask why they're here, how did it all begin and they look for the most simplest answer; a God. A god that's supposedly going to rise from the dead to judge us. A god that people have waited for thousands of years, yet still hasn't appeared. Yet they still believe. Why? Because they have faith. I'm no science major, but when you put your mind to something and stick to it, it would take alot for you to let go of it.
I, as an atheist, side with science; a side that tries to explain through logic, evidence, and thinking. When I ask a religous person how they justify fossils of Dinosaurs, neanderthals, planets, atoms, cells, and other scientific evidence, they shrug it off and continue to stick to a bible that's 1700? years old. What's sad to me is how modern society still relies on religion to go through everyday lives. Are we not advanced enough to use science to justify life? Thousands of years ago, man did not have science to explain how things worked; hence the creation of religion. Today as man we look at Greeks that believed in Zeus, Hades, and other Gods that were named after weather, actions, and other factors and look at them as some confused society. Why is it that today we can easily brush off old religous beliefs ( aka Greeks, etc ) and use science to justify their God, yet when it comes to the Bible, we can't do the same for that?
We all believe in what we want to believe. It helps us function, to live life. That's the power of the mind; it creates pleasure, emotions, fear, innovation, and the power to advance through logical thinking.
Religion is dumb. All religions ask for money for some reason. i mean what the fack
Name me one religions who doesnt ask for money. (and budhha monks come down and ask for food)
catholics and christians well they are the biggest rip off ever.
Muslims well they do the aumone thing.
Let's jewish well they faking rich so they don't really need to and they think they are the chosen people so fack that.
Native Americans probably had the best religions and most healthy.
Believe in god is one thing believing in a religion is a whole different stupid matter. For all we know all these morons are praying to the same God and are pounding on themselves because they gave hima different name
Tsk tsk tsk, all you atheists making assumptions about religious folk.
Yeah, I am SO afraid of death...so afraid that I grasp onto the idea of a God and religion because I have nothing else to sustain me. Making such idiotic generalizations about religious and spiritual people is downright stupid.
It's no surprise to me at all that most 20-somethings and teenagers today aren't religious. Our society has turned to such absolute shit that I can understand it. A society where everything is 'on-demand' and nothing is left for you to figure out- everything is spelled out for you 100%. Television, music, the general whittling away of basic American morals, has led to this generation where nonchalance is the standard. And I'm ashamed to be a part of this generation, truly.
And now that I think of it, 75% of you won't even understand what I'm talking about because your parents use the family computer as a babysitter.
Since when did I say they actually worship buddha? And how is it a bad example? Im talking about exploring other religions I said nothing about worship I said practicies.
Religion is dumb. All religions ask for money for some reason. i mean what the fack
Name me one religions who doesnt ask for money. (and budhha monks come down and ask for food)
catholics and christians well they are the biggest rip off ever.
Muslims well they do the aumone thing.
Let's jewish well they faking rich so they don't really need to and they think they are the chosen people so fack that.
Native Americans probably had the best religions and most healthy.
Believe in god is one thing believing in a religion is a whole different stupid matter. For all we know all these morons are praying to the same God and are pounding on themselves because they gave hima different name
I've seen a lot of nonsensical posts containing drivel and not making any point at all, but yours takes the cake.
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AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
The worst thing about religion is when its thrust in your face when you have no care for it in the first place.
All i have to say is that in my expierence in combat, NOBODY is an Atheists. Everyone of the soldiers who claimed to be an atheist started praying once we got in country. Im not knockin anyone but it seems to me that there is a nice woven web between science and religion.
The worst thing about religion is when its thrust in your face when you have no care for it in the first place.
You could say the same thing about Atheists, since this thread is on a gaming board where it has no place being, and keeps being thrust into my face all freaken day. Where are the mods to delete this thread already?
Past: EQ, EQ2, DAoC, SWG, WoW, LotR, VG, WAR, GW, GW2, Rift Present: The Elder Scrolls Online Future: Everquest Next
Lore and legend created to encourage lawful and or moral behavior in a society with promise of future rewards in an 'afterlife.'
Unfortunately, at least in the case of Christianity, the morals in a 2000 year old book are arguably obsolete yet not easily altered or discarded since such writings are held as sacred. Additionally, hypocrisy on the part of religious leaders makes religious premises less plausible. Finally, Christianity's primary purpose seems not to follow its own doctrine but to ensure its own survival and growth.
I think that most religions are created with the best intentions but ultimately they end up corrupted by human nature.
and yes, this thread should be moved to off-topic, and no, there will never be satisfactory conclusion to it, but that does not mean it is not worthwhile discussing...
Why do people care that atheists care about religion?
Seriously, I'm an atheist, and I don't really care about religion most of the time, but if you're going to shove it in my face, put it on my currency, and make me obey your beliefs which have no bearing on ethics (aka morality), then expect a response. Atheists, like any other group of people will respond when tyranny arises, get use to it we feeble humans want liberty in our own lifetimes, maybe you just don't grasp that, but that's okay, you're human too and I can bet you want liberty in your own lifetime too, just remember liberty must be open to all, not some as you are expected to believe. So the liberty of religion implies the liberty from religion. [ ]
I personally don't think that neither the Atheist nor the Religious person has the answer needed to explain reality.
The error I think a lot of people are making is that they treat Physics and Metaphysics like they are the same thing.
The Atheist tries to explain Metaphysics from a scientific point of view and the Religious person tries to explain physics from a divine point of view.
That doesn't work.
Science has no place when it comes to Metaphysics. You can't prove anything, you can only believe. This is where I think it's smart to assume the existance of a god. Because when it comes to Metaphysics it's in my opinion the best way to solve problems posed here.
God has no place when it comes to Physics. You can't just believe in something, when it comes to Physics you need proof. Here I think it's smart to rely on science. Simply because in my opinion it's the best way to solve problems posed in the physical world.
That's something I think you should always keep in the back of your head.
You can't explain thunder as an act of god. It's simply clouds generating electricity. Any other explanation will just fall short.
You can't explain the humanity as a scientific event. It's simply our own 'divinity'. Any other explanation will just fall short.
Trying to force god into the physical world is wrong, it will only lead to arguments and worse. But trying to force science into the metaphysical world is just as wrong. Again it will only lead to arguments and worse.
I think we would go a long way if we accepted that god may just be the 'start' of everything and not the lord. And accepting that somethings just can't be explained by science.
Neither God nor Science is the answer to everything. Combined they however just might be.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
I'm an atheist, but honestly I don't really care about most of the stuff in that video. Yes, God is on our money, but who reads money? It's in the pledge of allegiance, but I've never been forced to recite it. Even if I was, it's only two extra words... who cares? As far as the obscure laws against atheists in 7 states, all you have to do is NOT publicly declare that you're an atheist. No one's watching to see if you attend church or not.
There are two different kinds of atheists in this world. Those that are atheist because they simply can't believe in religion, and those that are atheist because it's an alternative to religion. Atheists have nothing to talk about aside from the odd moments when one happens to be directly discriminated against, so there's really no point in having an atheist "group". What would they talk about?
"So, I don't believe in religion. Do you?"
"No, I don't."
"Great! Meeting adjourned!"
This is just another case of people complicating things unnecessarily. If it wasn't religion, it would be something else. There will always be discrimination against people who are different, however slightly, because that's how people are. We're idiots.
Watch South Park's 2 episode scenario of a world without religion. This is probably an accurate representation of what would happen if there was no religion. People will just find something else to fight over and bitch about.
Originally posted by gobla This is where I think it's smart to assume the existance of a god. Because when it comes to Metaphysics it's in my opinion the best way to solve problems posed here.
I actually tried up until here... Allow me to say "HAH!"
HAH!
Yeah, blaming the situation on God (God did it! It wasn't me!) sure is the best way to solve a problem. That's called ignorance my friend.
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW... It all sucked.
Comments
It's the highlighted part that bothers me.
A man in a starbucks one day, as I was getting coffee and minding my own, spent 30 minutes trying to convince me that I would be going to hell. I politely explained that for an athiest there is no hell, and for a true athiest there is no conversion.
A man knocked on my door one day and spent 30 minutes trying to convince me that I was not truelly happy because I had not excepted Jesus Christ as my personal lord and savior. I politely explained that if I needed to believe in God, and Jesus Christ, to be happy then I was not "truelly" happy.
It takes a lot of balls to stand before another man and tell them how they should think, and feel. This is something I haven't the nerve to do, but others feel compelled to do to me.
The next time you call someone self rightous I would like you to look in the newspaper or turn on CNN, or any other program reporting world news, and find the athiest blowing things up or killing in the name of thier God. The day a war is started over the belief of an athiest I'll agree with you. Untill then, you are wrong.
For gigles. The definition of an agnostic:
Agnosticism (from the Greek a, meaning "without", and Gnosticism or gnosis, meaning knowledge) means unknowable, and is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims—particularly theological claims regarding metaphysics, afterlife or the existence of God, god(s), or deities—is unknown or, depending on the form of agnosticism, inherently unknowable.
Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge of God or gods; or, alternatively, that while certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge. Agnosticism in both cases involves some form of skepticism.
Demographic research services normally list agnostics in the same category as atheists and non-religious people,[1] although this can be misleading depending on the number of agnostic theists who identify themselves first as agnostics and second as followers of a particular religion.
I didnt call anyone specifically self rightous, and your ersonal experiences arent a good explanation. I didnt call all atheist self rightout, I said they CAN be, just as any other religous person can be reasonable and self rightous, so dont assume I was directing any negativity at you. And youa re making assumptins based on what I said. Agnosticism is much more complicated than that and it doesnt always have to do with god. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism. You made assumptions and stereotyped me, and only found something in what i had to say and spinned it. I am agnostic, and I know what it is so dont lecture me on the definition, I wouldnt have said it if i didnt know the meaning.
And it's ignorant of you to think that all atheists are as calm as you are when explaining something to a christian the reason you dont want to be converted. There are also atheists who go out of their way to tell christians and other religions what to think.
The agnostic definition wasn't for you. A lot of people use it like it's interchangable with the word athiest.
But, what you chose to type was: Atheists can be more self rightous then any other belief/religion
I can only read it as you have written it.
Edit: I haven't made any gross generalizations, nor delved into my beliefs other then to indicate that I am an athiest. Refer to the red type please.
They CAN BE more self rightous, which means they have just as much ability as any other belief system. I didnt say THEY ARE more self rightous. They playing field is even on both sides.I apologize to you Dante. I'm tired with and dealing with a migraine.
I'm being to hard and you are right. I'm reading more then I should into what you wrote.
Without a god, or a "higher power," we must be amoral (not to be confused with immoral), so there can't really be any right or wrong, or any need for a government.
Were that to happen in this reality, i don't doubt that a large portion of our population would fight for their faith.
Is that noble or foolish? Fighting and dying for your beleifs? Throwing your life away for mystical what-ifs?
I can respect people who choose to live their life as how they believe a benevolent god would want them to.
I can't respect people who choose to murder and harm others in the name of those same beliefs.
As to atheism and religion. No one really knows why they are usually better scholars than someone who is actually of that religion. Almost like they are searching for something. I am not atheist. So really i could not tell you why some Atheists do it. Although i have heard they do it for other than the reason I stated.
I felt that this needed saying again, cleaned up a bit, as it's the single most important part of this thread, IMHO.
My father asked me once if I believed in Jesus. I'm still not certain why he asked. I carefully responded with "yes and no." He turned and gave me a confused look. I explained to him that I didn't know if Jesus is real or if he is our Saviour, and that it was impossible to know, but religion isn't about the man. Religion is a tool to make people do what they are supposed to do anyways - respect each other, refrain from killing/harming other people, the list goes on. I don't need to believe in Jesus to believe that the above list applies to me and I should do these things without question, and without expecting anything (including entry into Heaven, if there is such a thing) as reward.
I think religion and MMOs have more in common than people realize, in that we participate at first because it's interesting and meaningful, and later on because we feel like we have to in order to keep up with our neighbors. If it's not engaging AND rewarding, it isn't worth doing.
I for one am an atheist. I don't believe in a God. I don't pray, or any of that. And I am still a sane person. I view religion as a way to control society, to keep them in check; a different branch of law if you will. As said in previous posts, religion is the greatest of all evils. Political leaders, or people in general [i]can[/i] use religion to justify their actions which is ridiculous. To me, religion is for the people that are confused. They look for purpose in life and ask why they're here, how did it all begin and they look for the most simplest answer; a God. A god that's supposedly going to rise from the dead to judge us. A god that people have waited for thousands of years, yet still hasn't appeared. Yet they still believe. Why? Because they have faith. I'm no science major, but when you put your mind to something and stick to it, it would take alot for you to let go of it.
I, as an atheist, side with science; a side that tries to explain through logic, evidence, and thinking. When I ask a religous person how they justify fossils of Dinosaurs, neanderthals, planets, atoms, cells, and other scientific evidence, they shrug it off and continue to stick to a bible that's 1700? years old. What's sad to me is how modern society still relies on religion to go through everyday lives. Are we not advanced enough to use science to justify life? Thousands of years ago, man did not have science to explain how things worked; hence the creation of religion. Today as man we look at Greeks that believed in Zeus, Hades, and other Gods that were named after weather, actions, and other factors and look at them as some confused society. Why is it that today we can easily brush off old religous beliefs ( aka Greeks, etc ) and use science to justify their God, yet when it comes to the Bible, we can't do the same for that?
We all believe in what we want to believe. It helps us function, to live life. That's the power of the mind; it creates pleasure, emotions, fear, innovation, and the power to advance through logical thinking.
Anyway.. this was way too long.. good day.
The 'worship' of Buddha images is very commonplace.
Name me one religions who doesnt ask for money. (and budhha monks come down and ask for food)
catholics and christians well they are the biggest rip off ever.
Muslims well they do the aumone thing.
Let's jewish well they faking rich so they don't really need to and they think they are the chosen people so fack that.
Native Americans probably had the best religions and most healthy.
Believe in god is one thing believing in a religion is a whole different stupid matter. For all we know all these morons are praying to the same God and are pounding on themselves because they gave hima different name
Yeah, I am SO afraid of death...so afraid that I grasp onto the idea of a God and religion because I have nothing else to sustain me. Making such idiotic generalizations about religious and spiritual people is downright stupid.
It's no surprise to me at all that most 20-somethings and teenagers today aren't religious. Our society has turned to such absolute shit that I can understand it. A society where everything is 'on-demand' and nothing is left for you to figure out- everything is spelled out for you 100%. Television, music, the general whittling away of basic American morals, has led to this generation where nonchalance is the standard. And I'm ashamed to be a part of this generation, truly.
And now that I think of it, 75% of you won't even understand what I'm talking about because your parents use the family computer as a babysitter.
the official MMORPG.com deadhead
the official MMORPG.com deadhead
All i have to say is that in my expierence in combat, NOBODY is an Atheists. Everyone of the soldiers who claimed to be an atheist started praying once we got in country. Im not knockin anyone but it seems to me that there is a nice woven web between science and religion.
The whole lot should be deleted.
You could say the same thing about Atheists, since this thread is on a gaming board where it has no place being, and keeps being thrust into my face all freaken day. Where are the mods to delete this thread already?
Past: EQ, EQ2, DAoC, SWG, WoW, LotR, VG, WAR, GW, GW2, Rift
Present: The Elder Scrolls Online
Future: Everquest Next
Lore and legend created to encourage lawful and or moral behavior in a society with promise of future rewards in an 'afterlife.'
Unfortunately, at least in the case of Christianity, the morals in a 2000 year old book are arguably obsolete yet not easily altered or discarded since such writings are held as sacred. Additionally, hypocrisy on the part of religious leaders makes religious premises less plausible. Finally, Christianity's primary purpose seems not to follow its own doctrine but to ensure its own survival and growth.
I think that most religions are created with the best intentions but ultimately they end up corrupted by human nature.
and yes, this thread should be moved to off-topic, and no, there will never be satisfactory conclusion to it, but that does not mean it is not worthwhile discussing...
Peace.
Why do people care that atheists care about religion?
Seriously, I'm an atheist, and I don't really care about religion most of the time, but if you're going to shove it in my face, put it on my currency, and make me obey your beliefs which have no bearing on ethics (aka morality), then expect a response. Atheists, like any other group of people will respond when tyranny arises, get use to it we feeble humans want liberty in our own lifetimes, maybe you just don't grasp that, but that's okay, you're human too and I can bet you want liberty in your own lifetime too, just remember liberty must be open to all, not some as you are expected to believe. So the liberty of religion implies the liberty from religion. [ ]
-- Brede
I personally don't think that neither the Atheist nor the Religious person has the answer needed to explain reality.
The error I think a lot of people are making is that they treat Physics and Metaphysics like they are the same thing.
The Atheist tries to explain Metaphysics from a scientific point of view and the Religious person tries to explain physics from a divine point of view.
That doesn't work.
Science has no place when it comes to Metaphysics. You can't prove anything, you can only believe. This is where I think it's smart to assume the existance of a god. Because when it comes to Metaphysics it's in my opinion the best way to solve problems posed here.
God has no place when it comes to Physics. You can't just believe in something, when it comes to Physics you need proof. Here I think it's smart to rely on science. Simply because in my opinion it's the best way to solve problems posed in the physical world.
That's something I think you should always keep in the back of your head.
You can't explain thunder as an act of god. It's simply clouds generating electricity. Any other explanation will just fall short.
You can't explain the humanity as a scientific event. It's simply our own 'divinity'. Any other explanation will just fall short.
Trying to force god into the physical world is wrong, it will only lead to arguments and worse. But trying to force science into the metaphysical world is just as wrong. Again it will only lead to arguments and worse.
I think we would go a long way if we accepted that god may just be the 'start' of everything and not the lord. And accepting that somethings just can't be explained by science.
Neither God nor Science is the answer to everything. Combined they however just might be.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
There are two different kinds of atheists in this world. Those that are atheist because they simply can't believe in religion, and those that are atheist because it's an alternative to religion. Atheists have nothing to talk about aside from the odd moments when one happens to be directly discriminated against, so there's really no point in having an atheist "group". What would they talk about?
"So, I don't believe in religion. Do you?"
"No, I don't."
"Great! Meeting adjourned!"
This is just another case of people complicating things unnecessarily. If it wasn't religion, it would be something else. There will always be discrimination against people who are different, however slightly, because that's how people are. We're idiots.
Watch South Park's 2 episode scenario of a world without religion. This is probably an accurate representation of what would happen if there was no religion. People will just find something else to fight over and bitch about.
Allow me to say "HAH!"
HAH!
Yeah, blaming the situation on God (God did it! It wasn't me!) sure is the best way to solve a problem.
That's called ignorance my friend.
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW...
It all sucked.