The moment Sigil accepted the $OE dial, the Vision started to fail. The Vision was good but $OE ruined it, as usual.
Vanguard is an ambitious game, it has a lot of features that are pioneering. Unfortunately their funding isn't unlimited. Brad himself said so on the forums that if he were given 3-5 more months of development time they would use it to polish up the game and add more high level content. However due to obligations to the investor they had to release the game unfinished and pretty rough. Building an mmo game isn't exactly textbook science, it is an artform that if rushed will result in a pile of gooey crap.
Entrepreneur has a great idea and puts together a company to make it happen.
Funding runs low, and is left with no choice but to sell out.
New management is so heavy handed that the original idea is shot, which defeated the whole purpose of making it in the first place.
Cut and run.
This man hit the nail on the head... soe planned this from the beginning, why do you think they stopped funding brad and rushed the game out? Hell many gamers like me that got hosed by NGE predicted it (hell... look at their track record). They just want to add it to their station access crap... seriously... please tell me most everyone saw this coming? they stopped funding his ass because he hadn't generated any GD income in 6 years!!!!!!!!!!!! JFC!
The moment Sigil accepted the $OE dial, the Vision started to fail. The Vision was good but $OE ruined it, as usual.
drop the crack pipe....
Brad (His Lordship) took Sigil to SOE after MS kicked his lame duck ass out for not delivering.
The Vision is a Marvel Comics IP. Brad is lucky to not be dragged into litigation by MS. Give the crack pipe back to your mother... if you had half a mind you'd see that one thing does not prevent the other to happen.
Don't know if I buy SOE didn't have a hand in the firings.
Per Brad's own words on 4/29:
What it does mean at this point is that both companies agree that we need more of SOE's involvement if Vanguard is going to continue to get the support it needs to both continue to be worked on and improved and debugged and optimized.
Talks are going well and first and foremost, our primary concern right now is what's best for Vanguard and its community.
Note sure if this has been posted in any other threads in this community, but there is an interview with one of the recently fired developers that shows an amazing inside look at how the project was managed.
After the jump, you're going to read an interview with an ex-Sigil employee given just over 24 hours after being let go. I honestly don't have anything more to say than that.
f13.net: How long, roughly speaking, did you work for Sigil?
Ex-Sigil: A Few.
f13.net: Were you there during the Microsoft years? Or at least, before the split.
Ex-Sigil: Yes.
f13.net: In terms of hands-on involvement, how much did Microsoft make their presence known?
Ex-Sigil: Initially they stayed fairly hands-off, but as things got further along they wanted to see results of their money.
f13.net: Can you elaborate on that a bit?
Ex-Sigil: We gave demos to high-level Microsoft people frequently. These demos were often just dog and pony shows where content was created specifically for the demo. There was no intention that this content ever be used in game. When you spend 30+ million on a project, you want to see results. They became more and more suspect as time went on, and more and more people got involved. Though, they were mostly just oversight. They never sent anyone down here to actually work on the project.
f13.net: Did they set the milestones?
Ex-Sigil: They set monthly milestones. They wanted a succesful MMOG. They had so many false starts with other things that they just wanted a profitable game.
f13.net: They weren't trying to be the next WoW?
Ex-Sigil: Anyone who thinks you can make a WoW killer these days is foolish to try. You need to be your own game. WoW is a juggernaut and really needs to not be the watermark for success. WoW is a tough subject around Sigil too...
f13.net: Why?
Ex-Sigil: There are a lot of people, Brad included who were certain it would be a short-lived game. Some, in fact, including Brad, never played it. WoW should have been the example of 'look at what a good game can do!' when instead it was often spoken of like a bad thing.
f13.net: As WoW grew, did Microsoft expect more results from their new investment? Did the pressure get put on at any point?
Ex-Sigil: No.
f13.net: Then when did Microsoft grow suspicious that they weren't going to get an actual product out of Sigil?
Ex-Sigil: When they started testing it themselves.
f13.net: Or rather, talk about how and when things started going downhill.
Ex-Sigil: Tt's hard to say really, management never communicated stuff like that to us. Often times I feel like they told us more spin and nonsense then they told the public.
f13.net: So management kept everyone in the dark as much as possible?
Ex-Sigil: Completely.
f13.net: What was the rumor mill like at this time? Surely people had friends and spoke to eachother.
Ex-Sigil: Sure. People who had contacts at MS kept getting info that they were really unhappy with things, and at the same time, we had a set-in-stone release date of June/July... 2006. Or rather - that was when Microsoft was going to cut of funding.
f13.net: How long before those summer days did rumors of leaving Microsoft start flying around?
Ex-Sigil: Management told us they were shopping things around and were entertaining outside investors to complete the project. But actually leaving Microsoft as a publisher was never discussed until they told us it was happening and we were co-publishing with SOE.
f13.net: At this time, how far along was the game itself?
Ex-Sigil: Well... if you call what we shipped 100%, I'd put the game at around 65%.
f13.net: What were the terms of the alliance with SOE at this time, if you knew?
Ex-Sigil: Co-publishing, with Sigil retaining all IP rights... is what we were told.
f13.net: What was SOE's involvement from beginning the partnership up until E3 2006?
Ex-Sigil: No hands-on influence from SOE, only leveraging of SOE assets like testing.
f13.net: Let me backtrack a little bit, simply for background - what was the hierarchy like within Sigil?
Ex-Sigil: There was input all around, but at each level, that input was simply discarded by the decision makers. Basically there were a handful of people who made decisions, regardless of input from anyone else.
f13.net: When it came down to actually making game content, how much freedom did designers have?
Ex-Sigil: Quite a bit. The content itself was done almost entirely on their own. The designers on Vanguard did amazing things with the horrific tools and systems in place.
f13.net: What tools were used to make the game?
Ex-Sigil: In-house stuff for the design side... but there was no scripting language for example, even though nearly everyone wanted one except for the people who decided if we got one or not.
f13.net: Because it would cost money to make these tools?
Ex-Sigil: No... because the people in charge just didn't want one
f13.net: How much do you think the lack of reasonable tools hurt the project?
Ex-Sigil: Immeasurably. You can't expect people to create interesting content, and then not give them the means to do it.
f13.net: Do you remember when the game was first shown publically? Surely it was while Microsoft was involved.
Ex-Sigil: I'm pretty sure the first time the game was seen in public, if I recall, was E3 2005. People were shown very small pieces (I was told a dungeon was shown over and over and over). Apparently, those pieces were specifically chosen to not show the glaring flaws. Now.. honestly, everyone does that. Nobody is going to parade around their problems. But the fact is, those problems were shoved under the carpet and ignored instead of being fixed before development moved forward.
f13.net: Was this a forced appearance?
Ex-Sigil: Yes.
f13.net: By Microsoft or Brad?
Ex-Sigil: Both I'd imagine... and that trend continued though for another year. What people don't understand, is the game that went out the door was literally created in the last 15 months. Design worked 12-18 hour days for 9+ months. Coding and Art worked insane hours as well, all trying to actually get something playable out the door.
f13.net: How deep did SOE's hands get into it? What was the progression like?
Ex-Sigil: They were hands-off all the way up til today
f13.net: ... are you serious?
Ex-Sigil: SOE lent a few devs to us in the final days, but it was nothing like people think. I think design had 3 people, art 2, and programming 1 from SOE. They let us use their testing dept too somewhat. We felt somewhat reborn I guess, but with a sense of reservation. When the merger happened SOE embraced us, and spent a LOT of money on us right away. It felt really good.
f13.net: Do you know why they were willing to do that? Surely they saw the lack of... product within the project at that time.
Ex-Sigil: I don't know that they did really. They got the same show that MS did to some degree. I'll say this about Brad.. he's one hell of a salesman. He's VERY passionate about his projects, even so much as to be blinded from seeing reality.
f13.net: SOE knew Brad's game though. Smedley has been around through McQuaid Part 1 & 2 now.
Ex-Sigil: I know.. and I can't explain that part.
f13.net: Surely people around the office knew part of the history. What was the rumor mill like at this time?
Ex-Sigil: Some people were confused. Why would SOE buy a game that's a direct competitor to EQ2? There was always talk, but people who were working on the game continued to put their souls into it in hopes that we could somehow get it all together in the end.
f13.net: Without a scripting language or proper tools, it sounds like some of the people actually on the project were pretty amazing.
Ex-Sigil: The level of creativity to make things work where there were no methods to do so was incredible.
f13.net: What happened in the short time between E3 2006 and Beta?
Ex-Sigil: The dev staff knew the game wasn't ready. Brad set the beta start I think and was completely clueless as to the actual state of the game... not listening to anyone telling him it wasn't ready
f13.net: How hands off was he by this time?
Ex-Sigil: He was playing a lot right through about Beta 2 but then he vanished.
f13.net: As in, just outright disappeared?
Ex-Sigil: Yep.
f13.net: Why? He was still posting on forums during this time...
Ex-Sigil: Well, he showed up to make mandates about game systems and design decisions.
f13.net: Was he there to see that stuff get implemented?
Ex-Sigil: The management knows I'm sure, but I don't have a clue. I just know he disappeared.
f13.net: What was the mood in the office by this time?
Ex-Sigil: People were still trying to stay upbeat, but certain people continually shooting down other's ideas started to take its toll. At least 2 people quit the team due to the heavy handed inflexible people on the class design team. When something isn't fun, except for the people who designed it, and others try to help, they'd get shot down... eventually people stop trying to help.
f13.net: How was QA treated through the course of development?
Ex-Sigil: QA?
f13.net: QA.
Ex-Sigil: QA was one person up until about November... ONE.
f13.net: What.
Ex-Sigil: 100% serious.
f13.net: What? How? This is an MMOG.
Ex-Sigil: Vanguard had one internal tester for probably 95% of the design cycle.
f13.net: Doesn't the complete and utter failure, in hindsight, seem like a self-fulfilled prophecy though with only one QA member?
Ex-Sigil: The reasons for failure are too numerous to list, but can all be summed up by a lack of management. Brad, for all his faults at least made decisions. So did Jeff. Right or wrong, they took a shot. The people in charge now were so afraid to make the wrong decision that they made no decision at all.
f13.net: Surely members of the team that weren't decision makers read forums and knew Sigil was doomed. Did people just blissfully ignore this stuff? I mean, comeon, the writing was on the wall.
Ex-Sigil: Oh, people knew. The only people that didn't know seemed to be the people capable of making the decisions to change it.
f13.net: Who are these people who took over after Brad and Jeff disappeared. Who can we pin the tail on?
Ex-Sigil: Dave Gilbertson, Bill Fisher, and Darrin McPherson... Ryan Elam too, but he spread himself thin by trying to do too much.
f13.net: Can you talk about them a bit? As, for most people, those names mean nothing.
Ex-Sigil: Dave was the VP. Bill is now lead designer, and Darrin heads up the class team and is responsible for class balance.
f13.net: Going down the list, what was each persons contribution to the eventual... failure?
Ex-Sigil: Let's just say they refused to listen to anyone on how to fix what was broken.
f13.net: Did they work as one unit, or are they each responsible in their own way for driving the project into the ground?
Ex-Sigil: Well, they were so pig-headed and arrogant that they believed we were all wrong and they were right.
f13.net: Did anyone have the experience out of those people to actually live in that sort of ivory tower?
Ex-Sigil: No. Dave was a modeler on the project and somehow became VP. Bill left SOE having shipped only Velious and some stuff in Luclin. Darrin left Westwood after Earth and Beyond tanked. Bill and Darrin worked together on this project through release - they were also arrogant and refused to listen to anyone else. To be fair, I don't think Dave did any of this intentionally, he was just in WAY over his head.
f13.net: Would you say, honestly, that they are directly responsible for the unfortunate conclusion?
Ex-Sigil: A part of it. You can't leave out the insane hype machine, the process failures, and the poor design decision making at the very highest levels.
f13.net: I can't speak for the hype machine outside of f13.net. But by this time, we knew the client broke the 20GB barrier and the game was, well, in a word - terrible. So, what do you mean by hype machine? The official forums? The posi... was there any real positive press? I remember reading some, how did it even come about?
Ex-Sigil: Good salesmanship. Brad and Jeff are very passionate about things, and that passion can overwhelm people.
f13.net: But Jeff and Brad weren't even on the scene at this time, were they?
Ex-Sigil: Jeff was to some degree. Brad was gone. Jeff was at least present and tried to be involved.
f13.net: Was it futile at this point? Had these other 3 guys pretty much taken everything over?
Ex-Sigil: Yeah.
f13.net: And what was the attitude by the team towards Brad and Jeff by now? Surely Brad's disappearance absolutely wrecked morale.
Ex-Sigil: Not really. When he was at work he was more an obstacle than a help. A lot of people wanted brad to just go away.
f13.net: That conflicts with a lot of the stories I heard about people leaving companies to join Sigil because of Brad...
Ex-Sigil: People did... a lot of people.
f13.net: What do people think of Brad now? Let's be real here, is he even fit to work in the industry?
Ex-Sigil: I think Brad's situation is an odd one. He's got tons of crazy ideas but he really shouldn't be in charge of anything. He is great as a theorycrafter so long as he was tempered by people who could determine what was possible or not.
f13.net: How much did Microsoft sink into Vanguard?
Ex-Sigil: We always heard numbers like 30 million.
f13.net: And how much did SOE pay Microsoft for it?
Ex-Sigil: I doubt they paid much.
f13.net: Moving on - Beta 2 to Release. How did that go?
Ex-Sigil: Things got a lot better.
f13.net: Who set the release date?
Ex-Sigil: The release date was set as a result of SOE not wanting to fund the project any deeper without SOME revenue coming in...
f13.net: Surely no one thought this was ready for primetime. And what about the giant patches that appeared nearly daily?
Ex-Sigil: We couldn't control that. From what I was told by some on the design team, the sweeping changes were par for the course.
f13.net: At this point, why were you all getting decent press? Did Brad do most of the marketing for that (even though he wasn't in the office)?
Ex-Sigil: Yes. We got press because I think people wanted to believe Brad. They wanted it to be great and they got caught up in his passion.
f13.net: How many copies of Vanguard sell between say, release and today?
Ex-Sigil: Around 200k, I think.
f13.net: How many people stayed after the "free" month?
Ex-Sigil: Numbers I heard yesterday were 90k. But I can't be sure. Actual subscription numbers were something management was very reluctant to tell us.
f13.net: Alright, I apologize for digging up a fresh corpse - but when did you all get the feeling bad things were going to happen?
Ex-Sigil: Three weeks ago. We knew for 3 weeks that layoffs were likely, but nobody said what, when, or how many. So that cloud was over our heads for nearly a month.
f13.net: Can you go into detail about how the final month progressed? How did events unfold?
Ex-Sigil: We kept getting told that the deal was 'in the works' but there were no details to be had. This went on for 2 weeks. Then fairly quickly people started figuring out things were imminent. Then yesterday we were told to grab our things we'd need for the rest of the day and head outside for a company meeting.
f13.net: Was an email sent out, IM sent out, who told you to go outside?
Ex-Sigil: Email. The email said literally to check in any work we were working on, grab anything we'd need for the evening (keys, wallet, purse, whatever) and meet out back for a short company meeting.
f13.net: Who sent the email?
Ex-Sigil: Andy Platter. Director of Production, though nobody at the company knew if he did anything.
f13.net: Go on.
Ex-Sigil: We met in the parking lot. Worse still... though Dave was supposedly in charge all this time, Andy is the one who delivered the 'you're all fired' speech, while Dave never said a single word.
f13.net: Who was standing at the front with Andy?
Ex-Sigil: Dave Gilbertson, Ryan Elam, and Donna Parkinson (the office manager).
f13.net: What was the speech you got?
Ex-Sigil: it was very emotionless. Very callous. "The deal is done, and basically you're all fired so some of you can be re-hired by SOE." Bill was there and actually made comments about how he was likely buying a house thanks to his stock.
f13.net: Wait, what? Did non-stock holders get severance?
Ex-Sigil: There was severance, yes... and they did say they'd help out any way they could with our job search.
f13.net: What was the fallout like?
Ex-Sigil: Well, worst of all.. at the end of Sigil, Brad wasn't even there to look us in the eye and apologize.
f13.net: Why do you think SOE kept him?
Ex-Sigil: His name? I heard he's being paid a minor pittance to have his name associated with the game still... but he won't actually be doing anything. I shouldn't say pittance.. since he's likely being paid more than many of the people who were let go. He got his initial investment back, I think, in the buyout and that's about it. But that's pretty much rumor. Only those involved know for real. For all I know, he could have made plenty. Or he could have not gotten a dime, but I seriously doubt that.
f13.net: Is there anything you want to add?
Ex-Sigil: It's hard. I really wanted Vanguard to be a great game, but it seemed like we were blocked by stupid decision making at nearly every step. Good people busted their ass, only to be shown the door because they weren't a 'culture fit' moving forward. I don't believe Brad is a bad guy like some people are painting him on the various forums right now. I DO think however, that he believed people wanted to play a game that HE liked, regardless of the masses of people telling him they didn't like his ideas. He ignored the opinions of people who worked for him, and busted their ass for him, and it cost him dearly, at least in reputation. So many of us jumped at the chance to work with Brad, only to find out he was a paper leader. You can only fool me once. I never want to work for Brad or Dave ever again. There was so much good in the team, so much effort wasted. None of the people listed above should ever work in any position of leadership. Though, Jeff might have a chance. He learned lessons from this, I think. The others did not. The whole ordeal has been rough. I know I'm exhausted.
been posted a millino times but keep it coming - this is stuff people really need to read
My apologies then. I was busier then usual today at work so I didn't have time to do my rounds on the boards. My guild Co-Leader pointed this out to me and thought it might be topical.
Reason why SOE bought out Vanguard and everything related to it. Everquest 3! Vanguard could of been a GREAT game but it was plagued by peformance issues. SOE is going to correct them use the vanguard engine or improve on the engine itself. Thats jut my opinion on it, because they cant expect to make any real money on it with all its performance flaws. I don't feel like a idiot for upgrading my computer to play this game because my comp was on the old side p4c 3ghz 1gbram geforcefx 5950 ultra and i ran vanguard at like 10fps with everything off reso 800x600 and the service reps saying i should be able to play it HA! but i upgraded to core2duo6400 1gbram geforce 8800gts and i get 60fps but i also get spikes where it takes the frames down to 10fps so after i had the equipment to play this game and it still was plagued i canceld my sub and said damn wasted 50bucks. but maybe one day these issues will be fixed and i can get somthing out of vanguard with the station pass (still play eq) but i really think only thing vanguard is going to help me with will be with EQ3. As for the people flaming SOE eh yeah SOE is evil, but you still give them your money. Untill there is a true boycott from everyone from SOE games and not people mad at SOE but still have active subscriptions SOE will continue to do what they do and that is make more money.
f13.net: What was the relationship in the office between Microsoft and Sigil prior to the split?
Brad McQuaid:: As I've posted a number of times, there was a regime change at Microsoft where they reorganized a lot of their game studios. The people who were in charge of the Vanguard project on the Microsoft side went elsewhere and a completely new group of people were put in place. In that new group of people, the upper management side were also in charge of getting the Xbox 360 out the door. So, the PC games at the time were not receiving a lot of support and I don't blame Microsoft for this at all. When you've got billions of dollars spent trying to launch a new console and millions on the PC titles, you're gonna make sure that the Xbox 360 kicks ass - I think they did a good job of that. The lower level people were put in charge of our project were people who didn't have any MMO experience. They had done Zoo Tycoon 1 & 2. We tried very hard to bring them up to speed and with open arms to show them the differences and similarities between developing an MMO and a single player game - the scale and things like that. That just didn't seem to work. Previously, the people who were dealing with us committed to us - verbally - that they, Microsoft, wanted and were determined to launch a AAA Massively Multiplayer Role-Playing Game - and to do whatever it took to make sure that happened. While that's not down on paper - as no company ever would put down on paper - that was our understanding. Under the new regime, that commitment, nobody remembered it.
When games like WoW were getting heavily into development and dollar amounts on games like EQ2 and WoW were becoming public - we said it would always be our understanding and agreement that we would compete with these guys. They backed down off of that and said that it was no longer their goal and at that point, the money started drying.
f13.net: So, Microsoft simply wasn't ready to compete and they had previously failed projects...
Brad McQuaid:: You have to understand how Microsoft works - and like I said, I don't blame them. They're given different marching orders from a corporate level when it comes to large expenditures. If you go back to Xbox 1 there was a lot of concerns. Can it handle Nintendo and Sony and Sega? Microsoft, you're big, but you can't have the console arena. Microsoft said "we're gonna do it, whatever it takes." The Xbox 1 was ok, and the Xbox 360 is doing great - and that, well, that was their mandate: To do whatever it took to start dominating the console market. They may not be there yet, but they're a lot farther along than they were with the Xbox 1. They had made that decision at some level to look ahead at online gaming and really do the same thing with MMOs. The day or the day after I left Sony, Ed Fries - I think the general manager at Windows Gaming - and other publishers called me, EA and NCSoft, but I had known Ed from before and had a relationship with him. I just knew that Microsoft, when they put their mind to do something, there's no stopping them. They were ready to make the next big MMO. A couple years into the project there was a significant change - the gaming group - and that was no longer the mandate. It took several months to really figure that out. When you have the Zoo Tycoon team assigned to you and the upper manager is in charge of your project and in charge of launching the 360... he must have had ten seconds a day to bother thinking about Vanguard. As there are - and I don't want to sound bitter - in large corporate entities, they make changes. When that change occurred, our relationship started going downhill. We knew what we needed to be competitive with World of Warcraft was in jeopardy.
f13.net: People have said that Microsoft were completely hands off in the development...
Brad McQuaid:: Well, before the transition, they weren't completely - but we were working hand in hand. It was a fantastic relationship. After the change they became completely hands-on.
f13.net: What did that do with the game?
Brad McQuaid:: It slowed down development significantly. Managing the game from their perspective, well... We tried to explain how MMO development is different from Zoo Tycoon and that explanation just wasn't being agreed with or understood - one of the two, I'm not sure. They wanted detailed schedules going out for months that were fairly inflexible. The more artistic a project is, the less schedulable it is down to the long term. I'm all for scheduling - but you have to be flexible. What if a technology doesn't work out? What if you find a better way to do something? You have to be flexible. Especially in pre-production. They wanted everything systematically and that it would take exactly this amount of time, this amount of art assets, and this amount of people to make, say, a dungeon. Are we talking about a premiere dungeon? A level 30 dungeon? A raid dungeon? A dungeon for core gamers? A dungeon where we can reuse certain art assets? Are we talking one where new art is used? There are a lot of variables there. There's not a lot of flexibility there. Our interpretation of that early on is that they don't understand MMO development. Later on, we determined that the decision was made that this is how the studio would be run regardless of the game.
f13.net: I was told that Microsoft actually came in and set a firm release date when you all were somewhere between 55 and 65 percent done.
Brad McQuaid:: Before the regime change, they had committed to us that they would adjust budgets and time frames to make sure it was a AAA game. These things take a long time to develop. Changes are happening, getting more expensive and customers are expecting more. We went back a couple of times together with [the managing team] to increase our budget or increase our time here and there. They were totally cool with that and understood that it was necessary to remain competitive.
After the regime change, that was considered "we were late" or "mismanaging" or "not adhering to strict schedules." It was looked upon not as staying competitive or making a AAA WoW-level game but rather that we were doing something wrong. They frowned upon us needing more time or money. When we'd ask for it, it was considered that we were making errors. Each time that occurred the micromanagement would increase. More and more Microsoft people would come down and try to analyze what was going on. Where we were "messing up." What they could do to "help us." Until finally they flat out said no. No more money, no more time. Your release date needs to be in the July 2006 time frame and that's it.
They didn't have their MMO people anymore really, and they had a major priority of getting the Xbox 360 out which cost billions and billions of dollars. Our ability to petition this to higher-ups and get any attention just really wasn't there.
I don't want to appear to negative here... but this happens with large corporations. There are changes and changes in mandate and focus, and clearly the Xbox 360 is doing very, very well. It has great titles and Microsoft is sitting fine. It's not like they made a catastrophic corporate error. I very much respect Microsoft as a whole and there are a lot of great people there and I'm definitely not one of those "I love Linux and hate all things Windows guys." I understand that all these things happen. Unfortunately it happened to us.
f13.net: Right after the split and before the tragedy the other day, that's when people claim you started to be in the office... not quite as much. Can you explain why?
Brad McQuaid:: We need to back up a little bit. After we split from Microsoft - because obviously we couldn't ship the game in an unready state - we had to go out and do something. Find money to make the game that we could and all dreamed about. We cut a deal pretty quickly so that we could get into SOE's E3 kiosk. We ended up having to meet payroll and to pay the bills. We needed to raise money. We went out and found some people who specialized in venture capital and I worked with those people immediately following the deal coming together. I started working with them on putting a deal together to fund the game to completion and fund the company post-completion and to possibly start a second title. It was basically "get money that we needed." So I started working with these people, it was a learning experience - I'd never really been in the private investor/VC world - and we started that process. I was in and out of the office quite a bit. Demoing the game, showing it to potential investors and putting together the documentation. All sorts of stuff you have to do for that kind of money.
f13.net: So that time being out of the office was business?
Brad McQuaid:: It was a bummer. Even going back to SOE, I want to make games. The executive producer side of things is more fun than the CEO business side of things. But it had to be done, right? So it was a bummer leaving a lot of that behind and it simply had to be done.
f13.net: The SOE-speak was vague in their press release, what are you doing on the game now.
Brad McQuaid:: Pretty much what the press release said. It will become more clear and more announced in the future. I'll be posting on message boards, working with the creative/marketing team on Vanguard, perhaps future things... projects, and working as a consultant in that area. Which are some of the things I really enjoy like posting on message boards.
f13.net: Like FoH?
Brad McQuaid:: If that had gotten to me, I'd have gone under in 1998.
f13.net: I don't know. You refuse to post on f13, even though you said you "read us daily."
Brad McQuaid:: No offense, it looks like a lot more people read FoH and I was posting on there to get the word out about the game. I had no intention to argue or or debate about the game. It was to show people that there was a difference. F13 is a smaller group of guys that really gets into MMOs - the analysis of MMOs and what makes them work. I enjoy reading it, it just doesn't seem like the same type of forum [as FoH].. On FoH, some people would say - "Oh Brad," You're just here promoting, go away. I say, "well, if that's your feeling, let me know." A bunch of other guys say "stay" and well, as long as I'm welcome here that I would. I was simply too engaged with other stuff to get into the more esoteric and more philosophical parts of MMO design which f13 is a bit more focused on...
f13.net: Well, it's irrelevant these days since everyone links to everyone else.
Brad McQuaid:: This is true.
f13.net: For everyone involved, do you have a Google Alert on "The Vision?"
Brad McQuaid::Hm. No. I have it on McQuaid and Sigil I think. I should probably put one on "The Hub of All Blame" as well.
f13.net: Actually, 9 out of 10 people believe that "The Hub of All Blame" is Gilbertson and Fisher. Do you even want to comment?
Brad McQuaid:: No. They're great guys, personal friends of mine and I can understand why people can be upset with them. While I understand it, I disagree on a professional level. Going further would have to wait for an SOE interview.
f13.net: Do you think some of that contributed to some of the eventual problems that arose?
Brad McQuaid:: I can't answer that, but when a company grows and you start being a manager, it's worrisome to hire somebody from outside though. So your inclination is to hire from the inside, your downside to that is that. Growing a company really, really fast is tough. I certainly made my share of errors and there are books written on it. It's not something easy. It goes back into something I said earlier about how quick this industry is expecting more and more - Everquest cost 8 million dollars, WoW cost 80 Million. Jesus. That's in a period of how many years?
f13.net: There were three questions people really want answers to... the first being, why weren't you at the office on launch day?
Brad McQuaid:: Launch day?
f13.net: Apparently they had "cake and champagne."
Brad McQuaid:: In general, I had just found out about future events and what was likely or possible to occur... and it broke my heart. Emotionally, I just couldn't be sitting there celebrating and putting on a big smile when I knew the troubles we might be facing in the future.
f13.net: Next, I was told there was no launch party... Most companies I know, I've been to a few of them, they have launch parties in the face of utter defeat or complete success - what happened there?
Brad McQuaid:: Are you talking about a party for employees or media?
f13.net: Media and employees. A launch party.
Brad McQuaid:: We had hoped to have a big one... well, my favorite one was with Velious. We went to Vegas. We had all the media down one night and a fan-fare another... There were enough things going on with launch and financial realities, that it just wasn't going to work out. I think they had a big hot dog and burger cookout and let everyone go early.
f13.net: And the next party... god, I am a fucking cynic. Why weren't you at the firing party?
Brad McQuaid:: Well, this is going to sound corny but it's true. I would have broken down in tears.
f13.net: I have since discovered that SOE didn't even know it was going to go down like that. They had something else planned, something less cold. You read the interview right?
Brad McQuaid:: The Long and Morbid tale one?
f13.net: Well, let me just read it back. I've now had multiple people say the same thing. It's uncanny. Not a single one of them seem to have embellished. That Andy Platter - who no one knows, they don't even know what he did at Sigil.. Dave Gilbertson, Ryan Elam, and Donna Parkinson - well basically "You're all fired, some of you may be rehired by Sony Online Entertainment" an-
Brad McQuaid:: I know those people and have a great deal of respect for them, but that sounds awful cold the way you said it...
f13.net: No, you don't understand. Everyone said the same thing. I have confirmed it with no less than six people. That they used the phrase "you're all fired." On that day. In a parking lot. My big problem with this is, well, I don't know your relationship with Bill Fisher, but at this event he made a joke about his stock options buying him a new house. I don't even know how you can comment on this.
Brad McQuaid:: I would find that hard to believe.
f13.net: Uhm....
Brad McQuaid:: I think, this is speculation... there was some turmoil on design and Fisher was doing very well and he was one of the people who wasn't let go. If you can imagine perhaps a designer who was let go having some animosity for Bill and maybe hearing that he said something like that or maybe they overheard him sarcastically talking to one of his buddies like "huh, oh, yea, I'm gonna go buy a car now." Ya know, we're not talking those kind of dollar figures I don't think. I can imagine him going "Woo hoo, going to buy a new car" and I can imagine a third party not knowing Bill's sarcastic joke-around with the guys personality and hearing it and taking it in a bad way, you know what I'm saying? I wasn't there. But I sincerely doubt that he said that in the way it's being construed.
f13.net: Going another direction, I know that there was at one point, a coup that was attempted. On the business side, what happened to the relationship with you and Jeff Butler?
Brad McQuaid:: When you work with someone as long as Jeff Butler and I have - a long time... you're basically business partners. You agree on most things but there are certain things you do not agree on. We have been described as an old married couple. So, ya know, we've had our disagreements. In the early days, everything was new and we had all these wild and cool ideas to share with each other. And then after the stress of running a business together and seeing each other everyday, we could complete each other's sentences. We've had our disagreements, but I wish him the best in whatever he's doing.
f13.net: This is something that, well, I've already got the people involved to corroborate... did the affair between April Jones and Jeff Butler actually affect anything in development?
Brad McQuaid:: I'm not going to comment on their personal life.
f13.net: Not their personal life, the office life due to it.
Brad McQuaid:: Uhm, I have a lot of respect for them. In general, I mean, you work together so much and so many hours in game development and it's creative and people have common interests. This guy watches BSG, this guy collects comic books. You make lots of friends. Relationships form that are more serious than friendships. The only way to stop that would be to basically fire people on the spot and draw some line in the sand. I don't even know how to define that, the legalities. Or do what most companies do and forbid relationships. But we're in games, I don't want to work in a dry environment. I want to goof off and have friends. Obviously something like... a scenario like that isn't good for the company. Is there an easy solution... how to not let that occur.
f13.net: I'll be honest, you touched on my next question. I heard that, well, apparently it was an open secret. That's fine. Whatever. It happens in every office. But the real problem was, well, seemed to have been that - Jeff's wife still worked there. How do you... you know, never mind, it needs to come from them.
Brad McQuaid:: It made it worse, that's all I'll say.
f13.net: I'm going to do a 180 here. Apologies. But you're a religious person. You've said that angels and demons not being in EQ while you were there isn't just because of your religious beliefs. What was the core reason?
Brad McQuaid:: There are different symbols, beings, supernatural beliefs - belief systems that people have that are active today in this world. Gods, demons, angels, others. I guess, in a textbook, would be world religions. You can't avoid offending everyone. Let's take angels. Christians generally believe that angels are real. Many other people don't. That they're mythological beings. Most people don't believe that dragons are real. Or that a griffin is real. Putting a griffin in your game though, versus an angel - is much less a problem. What we decided to do was to avoid anything that's from a major religion. There's some fundamentalist Christian that won't let their kid play period. Dragons, dungeons, death. Whatever. There's also going to be more moderate Christians who are going to let them play EQ or DAoC because there aren't demons or angels or something. We're creative enough people, why not just use the plentiful fantasy out there and not elements of major religions. I also wanted to not use symbols, even from dead religions. While I definitely think it would be great to take themes from mythologies like East-Asian, Norse, Egyptian and things like that - let's avoid using an ankh or whatever. Let's come up with our own religion and our own symbol that means life. This is a different world. Maybe we don't have the time or creativity of Tolkien - who borrowed from mythologies. We're not going to make our own huge religion, but at least come up with our own pantheon of gods and symbols and whatnot. That was just one of the things I wanted to do early on - by simply avoiding offending people if we can. To an atheist sure, an angel is no different than a griffin. But Johnny's mom will let him play our game.
I am a Christian so this probably goes back to me seeing 'Deities and Demigods' and kind of being bummed about that even though I still play [D&D]. It would have made me feel better if they had not used - or rather, had other creatures that weren't demons. So, is this kind of like, "if I'm going to be involved in making games, can a kid play this without being bother by it or his parents saying get away from that evil stuff!" That's the origin of it, but by no means is it me trying to hoist my religious beliefs on anybod-
f13.net: That cuts directly to the core of something I've heard from at least a couple employees who are upset. Someone is alleging - and I'm sure I'll get a straight no comment, but please just deal with the question... Did you distribute religious materials and offer promotions based on people who took you up on it?
Brad McQuaid:: Absolutely not. No and no. Nor would I ever.
f13.net: Ok.
Brad McQuaid:: I believe very much in spreading the gospel of Christianity through ones actions. I don't think you're going to force or debate anyone into believing something. It's got to be based on your actions and morals. On top of that in a work environment - and on top of that, in a management position - it is completely unacceptable to do anything like that and I wouldn't dream of it.
f13.net: Fair enough. So, a lot of people talked about this Andy Platter guy. From two people, I got the exact same response. Neither know who he was, or what he did, or why he played any role in the firing of employees. Simply to explain to the employees reading this - who was he and what did he do?
Brad McQuaid:: He was the Director of Operations. He tested servers, websites, and so on. Most of the developers would probably not interact with him. He had also been out of town recently with a family illness. I'll stop there. As for why he was involved in that event, I have no comment because I wasn't there. As the company grew, well, it's another sociological thing. The company gets big enough, it leases another building. Then the people in the first building are like "what do those guys do?" That's just more human nature stuff. If you're a programmer you don't interact with design much. What does that guy do? I haven't seen anything he's done. Is he a waste of space? Well, he could be the best designer on the team. That's just people.
f13.net: I've kind of got a family tree of the company going here and normally this isn't tolerated. I'm trying to figure out - because I know you didn't have final say in a lot of things, specifically hiring practices among non-design folks...
Brad McQuaid:: The larger the company got, the more we had to build up middle management and delegate responsibility.
f13.net: Well, how did nepotism run so freely to the point that - there's just, ugh, so many family members in this company. We've got brothers, brother-in-laws, a wife - how did this happen? Did you need that many people?
Brad McQuaid:: Two answers. I don't know enough about well. I don't have a family tree. I don't know if this is a higher than normal number. You may have that information. I don't. The other thing too is, when you need to rely on somebody or know somebody or vouch for somebody, especially in a creative environment and know how they interact with people... well, you find a lot of pre-existing friendships and relationships. Because so many interests are shared, even some relationships that didn't exist beforehand - it's likely to happen just like it does with MMOs. You spend all this time with people and have a real relationship with people. I honestly don't know if there's more or less in Sigil.
f13.net: Ok.
Brad McQuaid:: We didn't encourage it. We did encourage the general concept of "Hey do you know this guy, can you vouch for him?" "Well yea, I've known this guy six year. He's intelligent and super creative and he won't steal your car."
f13.net: Well of course, there's "I've known this guy 22 years, he's my brother. In secret, he's a big douche."
Brad McQuaid:: That's the risk. And then you find out and you hopefully get rid of both. The industry is not that big. Basically, if you say "hey, I vouch for my brother" and then you hire him and they both turn out to be jerks, ya know, you're gonna hopefully get rid of them. When it comes time to recommendations, it's going to get around. Formally or informally. That stuff doesn't work out so well. More times than not, you get a good person than you get some guy who can't hold down a job.
f13.net: Ok, here's a loaded one. A number of people have said there was one QA member up through at least beta 3 or 4. How did an MMOG survive with one person dedicated to quality assurance.
Brad McQuaid:: The original plan was to use Microsoft's vast testing facility. We were to keep a small testing team at Sigil -
f13.net: But one?!
Brad McQuaid:: No. A small team that was very close to the dev team and use the massive facility at Microsoft. When that relationship went south and we were scrambling for money, we simply did not have the room to grow.
f13.net: Can you talk about The Vision a bit?
Brad McQuaid:: Well, it goes way back to Everquest.
f13.net: Well, we know that.
Brad McQuaid:: I honestly don't know when it started. I probably started using... I think it had to do with something I commented on - why some games - well, you can tell if a development team really had their hearts in it or not, regardless of the type of game it may be. I think for any game, you need a vision. Either a visionary or visionaries and if you don't have that, you kind of meander around and I don't think you get nearly as strong of a game. Or anything. A piece of art. Anything creative. Unless there's a strong vision. My guess is I was doing a long-winded post back in 1999.
f13.net: Finally, is there anything you'd like to say to the people who were let go without warning. You weren't there, and you're the type of guy that would have said... something.
Brad McQuaid:: I'm really sorry it went down that way. The way that it did. I can promise you that I and everybody in upper management did everything they possibly could to avoid this happening. Sigil was everything to us. It was our dream. Starting our own company. Providing a great working environment. You know, we worked months and months - as great as SOE is, and it was great working with them as a partner - as some people said "Brad, why did you sell out to.." We didn't. We had hoped that Vanguard would be more of a success. It turned out we all worked very hard. Did the best we could. I thank everyone for pouring their hearts and souls into the game. I think it's a great game. I think it has huge potential. When I've talked and made posts about the future of Vanguard and talked about Vanguard next year - I do believe that it was planned and architected to be an amazing game. We hoped to do it as our own company. It didn't work out that way. I'm sorry.
As CEO, I take full responsibility and the buck stops here. I did everything I could and so did everybody else to make it work. But it didn't. I hope that everything works out for you guys in the future. If there's anything I can do - recommendations, things like that for all of you guys - please don't hesitate to contact me. I hope that you learned a lot in your time at Sigil and that you've become a more valuable asset in the games industry than when you first started. I wish you guys the best. I'm sorry that I wasn't there the day that people were let go. But honestly, these months have been very, very heartbreaking for me. Emotionally I couldn't have handled it. I would've been sitting there bawling my head off. You can ask anybody who knows me about the heartache I've felt because things didn't work out for the company. I do believe Sony will do a great job. I know they will.
That doesn't make it any easier for someone who lost their job. It's got to be a horrible thing. You can ask people when I had to fire one person who really deserved it, I'd have to take the afternoon off because it was so hard for me. And that was firing someone who deserved it. Laying people off was just too much. I guess I'm too empathic in some ways. I took the role of CEO very seriously, that I was responsible for every person there. Their well-being. It got harder and harder as the company. It was a weight on my shoulders. Please, again, if there's anything I can do to help you out. Do not hesitate to contact me. And I wish you guys the very best.
Reason why SOE bought out Vanguard and everything related to it. Everquest 3! Vanguard could of been a GREAT game but it was plagued by peformance issues. SOE is going to correct them use the vanguard engine or improve on the engine itself. Thats jut my opinion on it, because they cant expect to make any real money on it with all its performance flaws. I don't feel like a idiot for upgrading my computer to play this game because my comp was on the old side p4c 3ghz 1gbram geforcefx 5950 ultra and i ran vanguard at like 10fps with everything off reso 800x600 and the service reps saying i should be able to play it HA! but i upgraded to core2duo6400 1gbram geforce 8800gts and i get 60fps but i also get spikes where it takes the frames down to 10fps so after i had the equipment to play this game and it still was plagued i canceld my sub and said damn wasted 50bucks. but maybe one day these issues will be fixed and i can get somthing out of vanguard with the station pass (still play eq) but i really think only thing vanguard is going to help me with will be with EQ3. As for the people flaming SOE eh yeah SOE is evil, but you still give them your money. Untill there is a true boycott from everyone from SOE games and not people mad at SOE but still have active subscriptions SOE will continue to do what they do and that is make more money.
SOE will take Vanguard and make it into EverQuest 3?
That's just hilarious.
(but I guess that it must feel awkward to the fans, oh well) *shrugs*
Brad has an interesting view of "the buck stops here". First he blames the Xbox 360 and Microsoft management and then he refuses to even show up when all of his employees are riffed. Looks more like he passed the buck.
SOE will take Vanguard and make it into EverQuest 3? That's just hilarious. (but I guess that it must feel awkward to the fans, oh well) *shrugs*
Im not a fan to vanguard and im saying i see the potential in the actual engine itself. Theres endless things possiblities from this game engine. So yes i do think SOE would use this engine in creating Everquest 3. The crafting, diplomacy, and just plan adventuring in Vanguards engine is wonderful just they didnt take the time to push a 100% title and got AXED. I would in my opinion say vanguard was 70% done. Vanguard was for the hardcore mmorpgist and wasnt plagued by cartoon graphics. had a mature feel just couldnt deliever. So yes i do think Everquest 3 will use this engine it is a wonderful engine just needs to be tweekd and have its performance issues fixed. Im not saying they are going to turn Vanguard into EQ3 im just saying they are going to use the engine for EQ3 with vanguard still out there if it still has its VANboys or Vangurls for the ladies.
SOE will take Vanguard and make it into EverQuest 3? That's just hilarious. (but I guess that it must feel awkward to the fans, oh well) *shrugs*
Im not a fan to vanguard and im saying i see the potential in the actual engine itself. Theres endless things possiblities from this game engine. So yes i do think SOE would use this engine in creating Everquest 3. The crafting, diplomacy, and just plan adventuring in Vanguards engine is wonderful just they didnt take the time to push a 100% title and got AXED. I would in my opinion say vanguard was 70% done. Vanguard was for the hardcore mmorpgist and wasnt plagued by cartoon graphics. had a mature feel just couldnt deliever. So yes i do think Everquest 3 will use this engine it is a wonderful engine just needs to be tweekd and have its performance issues fixed. Im not saying they are going to turn Vanguard into EQ3 im just saying they are going to use the engine for EQ3 with vanguard still out there if it still has its VANboys or Vangurls for the ladies.
Is the graphics engine Unreal 1, 2 or 3?
Because Lineage 2 has got the Unreal 2 graphics engine and that game looks better than Vanguard.
SOE will take Vanguard and make it into EverQuest 3? That's just hilarious. (but I guess that it must feel awkward to the fans, oh well) *shrugs*
Im not a fan to vanguard and im saying i see the potential in the actual engine itself. Theres endless things possiblities from this game engine. So yes i do think SOE would use this engine in creating Everquest 3. The crafting, diplomacy, and just plan adventuring in Vanguards engine is wonderful just they didnt take the time to push a 100% title and got AXED. I would in my opinion say vanguard was 70% done. Vanguard was for the hardcore mmorpgist and wasnt plagued by cartoon graphics. had a mature feel just couldnt deliever. So yes i do think Everquest 3 will use this engine it is a wonderful engine just needs to be tweekd and have its performance issues fixed. Im not saying they are going to turn Vanguard into EQ3 im just saying they are going to use the engine for EQ3 with vanguard still out there if it still has its VANboys or Vangurls for the ladies.
Is the graphics engine Unreal 1, 2 or 3?
Because Lineage 2 has got the Unreal 2 graphics engine and that game looks better than Vanguard.
I don't know for sure but i just read somewhere that it was powered by the Unreal 3 engine. But either way it goes i cant agree that lineage 2 looks better then Vanguard. Yes you have to turn every single thing on and you wont be able to move unless you got a serious PC but it looks amazing. lineage looks good but not as good in my opinion.
SOE will take Vanguard and make it into EverQuest 3? That's just hilarious. (but I guess that it must feel awkward to the fans, oh well) *shrugs*
Im not a fan to vanguard and im saying i see the potential in the actual engine itself. Theres endless things possiblities from this game engine. So yes i do think SOE would use this engine in creating Everquest 3. The crafting, diplomacy, and just plan adventuring in Vanguards engine is wonderful just they didnt take the time to push a 100% title and got AXED. I would in my opinion say vanguard was 70% done. Vanguard was for the hardcore mmorpgist and wasnt plagued by cartoon graphics. had a mature feel just couldnt deliever. So yes i do think Everquest 3 will use this engine it is a wonderful engine just needs to be tweekd and have its performance issues fixed. Im not saying they are going to turn Vanguard into EQ3 im just saying they are going to use the engine for EQ3 with vanguard still out there if it still has its VANboys or Vangurls for the ladies.
Is the graphics engine Unreal 1, 2 or 3?
Because Lineage 2 has got the Unreal 2 graphics engine and that game looks better than Vanguard.
I don't know for sure but i just read somewhere that it was powered by the Unreal 3 engine. But either way it goes i cant agree that lineage 2 looks better then Vanguard. Yes you have to turn every single thing on and you wont be able to move unless you got a serious PC but it looks amazing. lineage looks good but not as good in my opinion.
The fact that Brad was not even there when his staff was getting fired shows what true coward and incredibly poor leader/ manager this man really was. All he is and ever will be is an idea man.
Seriously, this has been an abortion from the start it seems.
Yet, they still sold off 200,000 boxes to a largely unsuspecting public, knowing it was a broken product. This is nothing short of fraud in my view.
SoE would have been better off not getting involved in this disaster, letting it die pre launch, and focusing their energies on EQ2 as their premier traditional MMORPG with a huge and open 'Sea of Storms' (or whatever) expansion and a media blitz relaunch to get people back into the game.
By all means, strip mine Sigil's staff base of anyone with value, take whatever good ideas VG had (some form of diplomacy, open seas, player crafted boats, one or two of the class concepts etc), or whatever, but for the love of God let it die.
I am failing to see what this game brings to the party that EQ2 cannot just steal and incorperate at the fraction of the cost...
SoE... cancel this game, give all VG purchasers a free up to date download of EQ2 (with all expansions) and a month of free playtime, and lets have one thriving game instead of two ailing ones... plz?
btw, one last thought... they are actually paying Brad to have his name associated with VG? lol goddam...
The fact that Brad was not even there when his staff was getting fired shows what true coward and incredibly poor leader/ manager this man really was. All he is and ever will be is an idea man.
yes he took the coward way out and is a coward. but not everyone is built to take humilty. He n his partners started the company and if he would of been at that parking lot he would of been gettin fired too in reality just hes walking away with money and the employees arn't. I personally would of did the firing just because it would of been my responsibilty but im wasnt the ceo of sigil. but what i dont understand is in the interview he stats that eq was 8 million to create and wow was 80million and microsoft wanted a AAA game why they only give him 30million. when you know microsoft would be wanting to crush wow. like they want to crush sony and nintendo. so being microsoft if i would of went in with sigil i would of given at least minimum of 100million. microsoft wants to crush anyone and everything in there wake so i dont see why they only gave 30million and expected results.
Brad is blaming everyone, but himself. As always he blames everything else and rambles on endlessly trying to cover his ass. Screw him and any future games he cooks up in his screwed up mind. I'm done giving him my business, forever.
btw, one last thought... they are actually paying Brad to have his name associated with VG? lol goddam...
Finally someone else is thinking this as well. I think a lot of people will probably avoid anything he touches like the plague as some of the posters in this and other threads have said. It might make more sense to pay him to not be associated with it, isn't that the point of a buyout? If he is merely an idea man or a "visionary", then I think at this point it is safe to say that he hasn't produced an idea that will make money. I think conceptually when you think of how they were going to spend 30 million dollars on a game that targeted what brad himself called a "Niche" audience, you don't need to be the sharpest pencil in the box to realize how hard it will be to make back such a huge investment off such a small target group. The changing of fundamental mechanics was inevitable to make it appeal to a wider range of players, and if SoE can do what they did to EQ2, then it's probably for the best.
Comments
Vanguard is an ambitious game, it has a lot of features that are pioneering. Unfortunately their funding isn't unlimited. Brad himself said so on the forums that if he were given 3-5 more months of development time they would use it to polish up the game and add more high level content. However due to obligations to the investor they had to release the game unfinished and pretty rough. Building an mmo game isn't exactly textbook science, it is an artform that if rushed will result in a pile of gooey crap.
Brad (His Lordship) took Sigil to SOE after MS kicked his lame duck ass out for not delivering.
The Vision is a Marvel Comics IP. Brad is lucky to not be dragged into litigation by MS.
Brad (His Lordship) took Sigil to SOE after MS kicked his lame duck ass out for not delivering.
The Vision is a Marvel Comics IP. Brad is lucky to not be dragged into litigation by MS. Give the crack pipe back to your mother... if you had half a mind you'd see that one thing does not prevent the other to happen.
Don't know if I buy SOE didn't have a hand in the firings.
Per Brad's own words on 4/29:
No mention of staff.
Here's the rest of the post if you're interested.
http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=8569
Its an interesting post, if nothing else than to see where his head is at.
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Link = http://www.f13.net/index.php?itemid=561#more
f13.net: How long, roughly speaking, did you work for Sigil?
Ex-Sigil: A Few.
f13.net: Were you there during the Microsoft years? Or at least, before the split.
Ex-Sigil: Yes.
f13.net: In terms of hands-on involvement, how much did Microsoft make their presence known?
Ex-Sigil: Initially they stayed fairly hands-off, but as things got further along they wanted to see results of their money.
f13.net: Can you elaborate on that a bit?
Ex-Sigil: We gave demos to high-level Microsoft people frequently. These demos were often just dog and pony shows where content was created specifically for the demo. There was no intention that this content ever be used in game. When you spend 30+ million on a project, you want to see results. They became more and more suspect as time went on, and more and more people got involved. Though, they were mostly just oversight. They never sent anyone down here to actually work on the project.
f13.net: Did they set the milestones?
Ex-Sigil: They set monthly milestones. They wanted a succesful MMOG. They had so many false starts with other things that they just wanted a profitable game.
f13.net: They weren't trying to be the next WoW?
Ex-Sigil: Anyone who thinks you can make a WoW killer these days is foolish to try. You need to be your own game. WoW is a juggernaut and really needs to not be the watermark for success. WoW is a tough subject around Sigil too...
f13.net: Why?
Ex-Sigil: There are a lot of people, Brad included who were certain it would be a short-lived game. Some, in fact, including Brad, never played it. WoW should have been the example of 'look at what a good game can do!' when instead it was often spoken of like a bad thing.
f13.net: As WoW grew, did Microsoft expect more results from their new investment? Did the pressure get put on at any point?
Ex-Sigil: No.
f13.net: Then when did Microsoft grow suspicious that they weren't going to get an actual product out of Sigil?
Ex-Sigil: When they started testing it themselves.
f13.net: Or rather, talk about how and when things started going downhill.
Ex-Sigil: Tt's hard to say really, management never communicated stuff like that to us. Often times I feel like they told us more spin and nonsense then they told the public.
f13.net: So management kept everyone in the dark as much as possible?
Ex-Sigil: Completely.
f13.net: What was the rumor mill like at this time? Surely people had friends and spoke to eachother.
Ex-Sigil: Sure. People who had contacts at MS kept getting info that they were really unhappy with things, and at the same time, we had a set-in-stone release date of June/July... 2006. Or rather - that was when Microsoft was going to cut of funding.
f13.net: How long before those summer days did rumors of leaving Microsoft start flying around?
Ex-Sigil: Management told us they were shopping things around and were entertaining outside investors to complete the project. But actually leaving Microsoft as a publisher was never discussed until they told us it was happening and we were co-publishing with SOE.
f13.net: At this time, how far along was the game itself?
Ex-Sigil: Well... if you call what we shipped 100%, I'd put the game at around 65%.
f13.net: What were the terms of the alliance with SOE at this time, if you knew?
Ex-Sigil: Co-publishing, with Sigil retaining all IP rights... is what we were told.
f13.net: What was SOE's involvement from beginning the partnership up until E3 2006?
Ex-Sigil: No hands-on influence from SOE, only leveraging of SOE assets like testing.
f13.net: Let me backtrack a little bit, simply for background - what was the hierarchy like within Sigil?
Ex-Sigil: There was input all around, but at each level, that input was simply discarded by the decision makers. Basically there were a handful of people who made decisions, regardless of input from anyone else.
f13.net: When it came down to actually making game content, how much freedom did designers have?
Ex-Sigil: Quite a bit. The content itself was done almost entirely on their own. The designers on Vanguard did amazing things with the horrific tools and systems in place.
f13.net: What tools were used to make the game?
Ex-Sigil: In-house stuff for the design side... but there was no scripting language for example, even though nearly everyone wanted one except for the people who decided if we got one or not.
f13.net: Because it would cost money to make these tools?
Ex-Sigil: No... because the people in charge just didn't want one
f13.net: How much do you think the lack of reasonable tools hurt the project?
Ex-Sigil: Immeasurably. You can't expect people to create interesting content, and then not give them the means to do it.
f13.net: Do you remember when the game was first shown publically? Surely it was while Microsoft was involved.
Ex-Sigil: I'm pretty sure the first time the game was seen in public, if I recall, was E3 2005. People were shown very small pieces (I was told a dungeon was shown over and over and over). Apparently, those pieces were specifically chosen to not show the glaring flaws. Now.. honestly, everyone does that. Nobody is going to parade around their problems. But the fact is, those problems were shoved under the carpet and ignored instead of being fixed before development moved forward.
f13.net: Was this a forced appearance?
Ex-Sigil: Yes.
f13.net: By Microsoft or Brad?
Ex-Sigil: Both I'd imagine... and that trend continued though for another year. What people don't understand, is the game that went out the door was literally created in the last 15 months. Design worked 12-18 hour days for 9+ months. Coding and Art worked insane hours as well, all trying to actually get something playable out the door.
f13.net: How deep did SOE's hands get into it? What was the progression like?
Ex-Sigil: They were hands-off all the way up til today
f13.net: ... are you serious?
Ex-Sigil: SOE lent a few devs to us in the final days, but it was nothing like people think. I think design had 3 people, art 2, and programming 1 from SOE. They let us use their testing dept too somewhat. We felt somewhat reborn I guess, but with a sense of reservation. When the merger happened SOE embraced us, and spent a LOT of money on us right away. It felt really good.
f13.net: Do you know why they were willing to do that? Surely they saw the lack of... product within the project at that time.
Ex-Sigil: I don't know that they did really. They got the same show that MS did to some degree. I'll say this about Brad.. he's one hell of a salesman. He's VERY passionate about his projects, even so much as to be blinded from seeing reality.
f13.net: SOE knew Brad's game though. Smedley has been around through McQuaid Part 1 & 2 now.
Ex-Sigil: I know.. and I can't explain that part.
f13.net: Surely people around the office knew part of the history. What was the rumor mill like at this time?
Ex-Sigil: Some people were confused. Why would SOE buy a game that's a direct competitor to EQ2? There was always talk, but people who were working on the game continued to put their souls into it in hopes that we could somehow get it all together in the end.
f13.net: Without a scripting language or proper tools, it sounds like some of the people actually on the project were pretty amazing.
Ex-Sigil: The level of creativity to make things work where there were no methods to do so was incredible.
f13.net: What happened in the short time between E3 2006 and Beta?
Ex-Sigil: The dev staff knew the game wasn't ready. Brad set the beta start I think and was completely clueless as to the actual state of the game... not listening to anyone telling him it wasn't ready
f13.net: How hands off was he by this time?
Ex-Sigil: He was playing a lot right through about Beta 2 but then he vanished.
f13.net: As in, just outright disappeared?
Ex-Sigil: Yep.
f13.net: Why? He was still posting on forums during this time...
Ex-Sigil: Well, he showed up to make mandates about game systems and design decisions.
f13.net: Was he there to see that stuff get implemented?
Ex-Sigil: The management knows I'm sure, but I don't have a clue. I just know he disappeared.
f13.net: What was the mood in the office by this time?
Ex-Sigil: People were still trying to stay upbeat, but certain people continually shooting down other's ideas started to take its toll. At least 2 people quit the team due to the heavy handed inflexible people on the class design team. When something isn't fun, except for the people who designed it, and others try to help, they'd get shot down... eventually people stop trying to help.
f13.net: How was QA treated through the course of development?
Ex-Sigil: QA?
f13.net: QA.
Ex-Sigil: QA was one person up until about November... ONE.
f13.net: What.
Ex-Sigil: 100% serious.
f13.net: What? How? This is an MMOG.
Ex-Sigil: Vanguard had one internal tester for probably 95% of the design cycle.
f13.net: Doesn't the complete and utter failure, in hindsight, seem like a self-fulfilled prophecy though with only one QA member?
Ex-Sigil: The reasons for failure are too numerous to list, but can all be summed up by a lack of management. Brad, for all his faults at least made decisions. So did Jeff. Right or wrong, they took a shot. The people in charge now were so afraid to make the wrong decision that they made no decision at all.
f13.net: Surely members of the team that weren't decision makers read forums and knew Sigil was doomed. Did people just blissfully ignore this stuff? I mean, comeon, the writing was on the wall.
Ex-Sigil: Oh, people knew. The only people that didn't know seemed to be the people capable of making the decisions to change it.
f13.net: Who are these people who took over after Brad and Jeff disappeared. Who can we pin the tail on?
Ex-Sigil: Dave Gilbertson, Bill Fisher, and Darrin McPherson... Ryan Elam too, but he spread himself thin by trying to do too much.
f13.net: Can you talk about them a bit? As, for most people, those names mean nothing.
Ex-Sigil: Dave was the VP. Bill is now lead designer, and Darrin heads up the class team and is responsible for class balance.
f13.net: Going down the list, what was each persons contribution to the eventual... failure?
Ex-Sigil: Let's just say they refused to listen to anyone on how to fix what was broken.
f13.net: Did they work as one unit, or are they each responsible in their own way for driving the project into the ground?
Ex-Sigil: Well, they were so pig-headed and arrogant that they believed we were all wrong and they were right.
f13.net: Did anyone have the experience out of those people to actually live in that sort of ivory tower?
Ex-Sigil: No. Dave was a modeler on the project and somehow became VP. Bill left SOE having shipped only Velious and some stuff in Luclin. Darrin left Westwood after Earth and Beyond tanked. Bill and Darrin worked together on this project through release - they were also arrogant and refused to listen to anyone else. To be fair, I don't think Dave did any of this intentionally, he was just in WAY over his head.
f13.net: Would you say, honestly, that they are directly responsible for the unfortunate conclusion?
Ex-Sigil: A part of it. You can't leave out the insane hype machine, the process failures, and the poor design decision making at the very highest levels.
f13.net: I can't speak for the hype machine outside of f13.net. But by this time, we knew the client broke the 20GB barrier and the game was, well, in a word - terrible. So, what do you mean by hype machine? The official forums? The posi... was there any real positive press? I remember reading some, how did it even come about?
Ex-Sigil: Good salesmanship. Brad and Jeff are very passionate about things, and that passion can overwhelm people.
f13.net: But Jeff and Brad weren't even on the scene at this time, were they?
Ex-Sigil: Jeff was to some degree. Brad was gone. Jeff was at least present and tried to be involved.
f13.net: Was it futile at this point? Had these other 3 guys pretty much taken everything over?
Ex-Sigil: Yeah.
f13.net: And what was the attitude by the team towards Brad and Jeff by now? Surely Brad's disappearance absolutely wrecked morale.
Ex-Sigil: Not really. When he was at work he was more an obstacle than a help. A lot of people wanted brad to just go away.
f13.net: That conflicts with a lot of the stories I heard about people leaving companies to join Sigil because of Brad...
Ex-Sigil: People did... a lot of people.
f13.net: What do people think of Brad now? Let's be real here, is he even fit to work in the industry?
Ex-Sigil: I think Brad's situation is an odd one. He's got tons of crazy ideas but he really shouldn't be in charge of anything. He is great as a theorycrafter so long as he was tempered by people who could determine what was possible or not.
f13.net: How much did Microsoft sink into Vanguard?
Ex-Sigil: We always heard numbers like 30 million.
f13.net: And how much did SOE pay Microsoft for it?
Ex-Sigil: I doubt they paid much.
f13.net: Moving on - Beta 2 to Release. How did that go?
Ex-Sigil: Things got a lot better.
f13.net: Who set the release date?
Ex-Sigil: The release date was set as a result of SOE not wanting to fund the project any deeper without SOME revenue coming in...
f13.net: Surely no one thought this was ready for primetime. And what about the giant patches that appeared nearly daily?
Ex-Sigil: We couldn't control that. From what I was told by some on the design team, the sweeping changes were par for the course.
f13.net: At this point, why were you all getting decent press? Did Brad do most of the marketing for that (even though he wasn't in the office)?
Ex-Sigil: Yes. We got press because I think people wanted to believe Brad. They wanted it to be great and they got caught up in his passion.
f13.net: How many copies of Vanguard sell between say, release and today?
Ex-Sigil: Around 200k, I think.
f13.net: How many people stayed after the "free" month?
Ex-Sigil: Numbers I heard yesterday were 90k. But I can't be sure. Actual subscription numbers were something management was very reluctant to tell us.
f13.net: Alright, I apologize for digging up a fresh corpse - but when did you all get the feeling bad things were going to happen?
Ex-Sigil: Three weeks ago. We knew for 3 weeks that layoffs were likely, but nobody said what, when, or how many. So that cloud was over our heads for nearly a month.
f13.net: Can you go into detail about how the final month progressed? How did events unfold?
Ex-Sigil: We kept getting told that the deal was 'in the works' but there were no details to be had. This went on for 2 weeks. Then fairly quickly people started figuring out things were imminent. Then yesterday we were told to grab our things we'd need for the rest of the day and head outside for a company meeting.
f13.net: Was an email sent out, IM sent out, who told you to go outside?
Ex-Sigil: Email. The email said literally to check in any work we were working on, grab anything we'd need for the evening (keys, wallet, purse, whatever) and meet out back for a short company meeting.
f13.net: Who sent the email?
Ex-Sigil: Andy Platter. Director of Production, though nobody at the company knew if he did anything.
f13.net: Go on.
Ex-Sigil: We met in the parking lot. Worse still... though Dave was supposedly in charge all this time, Andy is the one who delivered the 'you're all fired' speech, while Dave never said a single word.
f13.net: Who was standing at the front with Andy?
Ex-Sigil: Dave Gilbertson, Ryan Elam, and Donna Parkinson (the office manager).
f13.net: What was the speech you got?
Ex-Sigil: it was very emotionless. Very callous. "The deal is done, and basically you're all fired so some of you can be re-hired by SOE." Bill was there and actually made comments about how he was likely buying a house thanks to his stock.
f13.net: Wait, what? Did non-stock holders get severance?
Ex-Sigil: There was severance, yes... and they did say they'd help out any way they could with our job search.
f13.net: What was the fallout like?
Ex-Sigil: Well, worst of all.. at the end of Sigil, Brad wasn't even there to look us in the eye and apologize.
f13.net: Why do you think SOE kept him?
Ex-Sigil: His name? I heard he's being paid a minor pittance to have his name associated with the game still... but he won't actually be doing anything. I shouldn't say pittance.. since he's likely being paid more than many of the people who were let go. He got his initial investment back, I think, in the buyout and that's about it. But that's pretty much rumor. Only those involved know for real. For all I know, he could have made plenty. Or he could have not gotten a dime, but I seriously doubt that.
f13.net: Is there anything you want to add?
Ex-Sigil: It's hard. I really wanted Vanguard to be a great game, but it seemed like we were blocked by stupid decision making at nearly every step. Good people busted their ass, only to be shown the door because they weren't a 'culture fit' moving forward. I don't believe Brad is a bad guy like some people are painting him on the various forums right now. I DO think however, that he believed people wanted to play a game that HE liked, regardless of the masses of people telling him they didn't like his ideas. He ignored the opinions of people who worked for him, and busted their ass for him, and it cost him dearly, at least in reputation. So many of us jumped at the chance to work with Brad, only to find out he was a paper leader. You can only fool me once. I never want to work for Brad or Dave ever again. There was so much good in the team, so much effort wasted. None of the people listed above should ever work in any position of leadership. Though, Jeff might have a chance. He learned lessons from this, I think. The others did not. The whole ordeal has been rough. I know I'm exhausted.
f13.net: Thank you.
TwitchTV Partnered Streamer
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Co-Leader of Inquisition
Youtube Channel
TwitchTV Partnered Streamer
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Co-Leader of Inquisition
Youtube Channel
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f13.net: What was the relationship in the office between Microsoft and Sigil prior to the split?
Brad McQuaid:: As I've posted a number of times, there was a regime change at Microsoft where they reorganized a lot of their game studios. The people who were in charge of the Vanguard project on the Microsoft side went elsewhere and a completely new group of people were put in place. In that new group of people, the upper management side were also in charge of getting the Xbox 360 out the door. So, the PC games at the time were not receiving a lot of support and I don't blame Microsoft for this at all. When you've got billions of dollars spent trying to launch a new console and millions on the PC titles, you're gonna make sure that the Xbox 360 kicks ass - I think they did a good job of that. The lower level people were put in charge of our project were people who didn't have any MMO experience. They had done Zoo Tycoon 1 & 2. We tried very hard to bring them up to speed and with open arms to show them the differences and similarities between developing an MMO and a single player game - the scale and things like that. That just didn't seem to work. Previously, the people who were dealing with us committed to us - verbally - that they, Microsoft, wanted and were determined to launch a AAA Massively Multiplayer Role-Playing Game - and to do whatever it took to make sure that happened. While that's not down on paper - as no company ever would put down on paper - that was our understanding. Under the new regime, that commitment, nobody remembered it.
When games like WoW were getting heavily into development and dollar amounts on games like EQ2 and WoW were becoming public - we said it would always be our understanding and agreement that we would compete with these guys. They backed down off of that and said that it was no longer their goal and at that point, the money started drying.
f13.net: So, Microsoft simply wasn't ready to compete and they had previously failed projects...
Brad McQuaid:: You have to understand how Microsoft works - and like I said, I don't blame them. They're given different marching orders from a corporate level when it comes to large expenditures. If you go back to Xbox 1 there was a lot of concerns. Can it handle Nintendo and Sony and Sega? Microsoft, you're big, but you can't have the console arena. Microsoft said "we're gonna do it, whatever it takes." The Xbox 1 was ok, and the Xbox 360 is doing great - and that, well, that was their mandate: To do whatever it took to start dominating the console market. They may not be there yet, but they're a lot farther along than they were with the Xbox 1. They had made that decision at some level to look ahead at online gaming and really do the same thing with MMOs. The day or the day after I left Sony, Ed Fries - I think the general manager at Windows Gaming - and other publishers called me, EA and NCSoft, but I had known Ed from before and had a relationship with him. I just knew that Microsoft, when they put their mind to do something, there's no stopping them. They were ready to make the next big MMO. A couple years into the project there was a significant change - the gaming group - and that was no longer the mandate. It took several months to really figure that out. When you have the Zoo Tycoon team assigned to you and the upper manager is in charge of your project and in charge of launching the 360... he must have had ten seconds a day to bother thinking about Vanguard. As there are - and I don't want to sound bitter - in large corporate entities, they make changes. When that change occurred, our relationship started going downhill. We knew what we needed to be competitive with World of Warcraft was in jeopardy.
f13.net: People have said that Microsoft were completely hands off in the development...
Brad McQuaid:: Well, before the transition, they weren't completely - but we were working hand in hand. It was a fantastic relationship. After the change they became completely hands-on.
f13.net: What did that do with the game?
Brad McQuaid:: It slowed down development significantly. Managing the game from their perspective, well... We tried to explain how MMO development is different from Zoo Tycoon and that explanation just wasn't being agreed with or understood - one of the two, I'm not sure. They wanted detailed schedules going out for months that were fairly inflexible. The more artistic a project is, the less schedulable it is down to the long term. I'm all for scheduling - but you have to be flexible. What if a technology doesn't work out? What if you find a better way to do something? You have to be flexible. Especially in pre-production. They wanted everything systematically and that it would take exactly this amount of time, this amount of art assets, and this amount of people to make, say, a dungeon. Are we talking about a premiere dungeon? A level 30 dungeon? A raid dungeon? A dungeon for core gamers? A dungeon where we can reuse certain art assets? Are we talking one where new art is used? There are a lot of variables there. There's not a lot of flexibility there. Our interpretation of that early on is that they don't understand MMO development. Later on, we determined that the decision was made that this is how the studio would be run regardless of the game.
f13.net: I was told that Microsoft actually came in and set a firm release date when you all were somewhere between 55 and 65 percent done.
Brad McQuaid:: Before the regime change, they had committed to us that they would adjust budgets and time frames to make sure it was a AAA game. These things take a long time to develop. Changes are happening, getting more expensive and customers are expecting more. We went back a couple of times together with [the managing team] to increase our budget or increase our time here and there. They were totally cool with that and understood that it was necessary to remain competitive.
After the regime change, that was considered "we were late" or "mismanaging" or "not adhering to strict schedules." It was looked upon not as staying competitive or making a AAA WoW-level game but rather that we were doing something wrong. They frowned upon us needing more time or money. When we'd ask for it, it was considered that we were making errors. Each time that occurred the micromanagement would increase. More and more Microsoft people would come down and try to analyze what was going on. Where we were "messing up." What they could do to "help us." Until finally they flat out said no. No more money, no more time. Your release date needs to be in the July 2006 time frame and that's it.
They didn't have their MMO people anymore really, and they had a major priority of getting the Xbox 360 out which cost billions and billions of dollars. Our ability to petition this to higher-ups and get any attention just really wasn't there.
I don't want to appear to negative here... but this happens with large corporations. There are changes and changes in mandate and focus, and clearly the Xbox 360 is doing very, very well. It has great titles and Microsoft is sitting fine. It's not like they made a catastrophic corporate error. I very much respect Microsoft as a whole and there are a lot of great people there and I'm definitely not one of those "I love Linux and hate all things Windows guys." I understand that all these things happen. Unfortunately it happened to us.
f13.net: Right after the split and before the tragedy the other day, that's when people claim you started to be in the office... not quite as much. Can you explain why?
Brad McQuaid:: We need to back up a little bit. After we split from Microsoft - because obviously we couldn't ship the game in an unready state - we had to go out and do something. Find money to make the game that we could and all dreamed about. We cut a deal pretty quickly so that we could get into SOE's E3 kiosk. We ended up having to meet payroll and to pay the bills. We needed to raise money. We went out and found some people who specialized in venture capital and I worked with those people immediately following the deal coming together. I started working with them on putting a deal together to fund the game to completion and fund the company post-completion and to possibly start a second title. It was basically "get money that we needed." So I started working with these people, it was a learning experience - I'd never really been in the private investor/VC world - and we started that process. I was in and out of the office quite a bit. Demoing the game, showing it to potential investors and putting together the documentation. All sorts of stuff you have to do for that kind of money.
f13.net: So that time being out of the office was business?
Brad McQuaid:: It was a bummer. Even going back to SOE, I want to make games. The executive producer side of things is more fun than the CEO business side of things. But it had to be done, right? So it was a bummer leaving a lot of that behind and it simply had to be done.
f13.net: The SOE-speak was vague in their press release, what are you doing on the game now.
Brad McQuaid:: Pretty much what the press release said. It will become more clear and more announced in the future. I'll be posting on message boards, working with the creative/marketing team on Vanguard, perhaps future things... projects, and working as a consultant in that area. Which are some of the things I really enjoy like posting on message boards.
f13.net: Like FoH?
Brad McQuaid:: If that had gotten to me, I'd have gone under in 1998.
f13.net: I don't know. You refuse to post on f13, even though you said you "read us daily."
Brad McQuaid:: No offense, it looks like a lot more people read FoH and I was posting on there to get the word out about the game. I had no intention to argue or or debate about the game. It was to show people that there was a difference. F13 is a smaller group of guys that really gets into MMOs - the analysis of MMOs and what makes them work. I enjoy reading it, it just doesn't seem like the same type of forum [as FoH].. On FoH, some people would say - "Oh Brad," You're just here promoting, go away. I say, "well, if that's your feeling, let me know." A bunch of other guys say "stay" and well, as long as I'm welcome here that I would. I was simply too engaged with other stuff to get into the more esoteric and more philosophical parts of MMO design which f13 is a bit more focused on...
f13.net: Well, it's irrelevant these days since everyone links to everyone else.
Brad McQuaid:: This is true.
f13.net: For everyone involved, do you have a Google Alert on "The Vision?"
Brad McQuaid::Hm. No. I have it on McQuaid and Sigil I think. I should probably put one on "The Hub of All Blame" as well.
f13.net: Actually, 9 out of 10 people believe that "The Hub of All Blame" is Gilbertson and Fisher. Do you even want to comment?
Brad McQuaid:: No. They're great guys, personal friends of mine and I can understand why people can be upset with them. While I understand it, I disagree on a professional level. Going further would have to wait for an SOE interview.
f13.net: Do you think some of that contributed to some of the eventual problems that arose?
Brad McQuaid:: I can't answer that, but when a company grows and you start being a manager, it's worrisome to hire somebody from outside though. So your inclination is to hire from the inside, your downside to that is that. Growing a company really, really fast is tough. I certainly made my share of errors and there are books written on it. It's not something easy. It goes back into something I said earlier about how quick this industry is expecting more and more - Everquest cost 8 million dollars, WoW cost 80 Million. Jesus. That's in a period of how many years?
f13.net: There were three questions people really want answers to... the first being, why weren't you at the office on launch day?
Brad McQuaid:: Launch day?
f13.net: Apparently they had "cake and champagne."
Brad McQuaid:: In general, I had just found out about future events and what was likely or possible to occur... and it broke my heart. Emotionally, I just couldn't be sitting there celebrating and putting on a big smile when I knew the troubles we might be facing in the future.
f13.net: Next, I was told there was no launch party... Most companies I know, I've been to a few of them, they have launch parties in the face of utter defeat or complete success - what happened there?
Brad McQuaid:: Are you talking about a party for employees or media?
f13.net: Media and employees. A launch party.
Brad McQuaid:: We had hoped to have a big one... well, my favorite one was with Velious. We went to Vegas. We had all the media down one night and a fan-fare another... There were enough things going on with launch and financial realities, that it just wasn't going to work out. I think they had a big hot dog and burger cookout and let everyone go early.
f13.net: And the next party... god, I am a fucking cynic. Why weren't you at the firing party?
Brad McQuaid:: Well, this is going to sound corny but it's true. I would have broken down in tears.
f13.net: I have since discovered that SOE didn't even know it was going to go down like that. They had something else planned, something less cold. You read the interview right?
Brad McQuaid:: The Long and Morbid tale one?
f13.net: Well, let me just read it back. I've now had multiple people say the same thing. It's uncanny. Not a single one of them seem to have embellished. That Andy Platter - who no one knows, they don't even know what he did at Sigil.. Dave Gilbertson, Ryan Elam, and Donna Parkinson - well basically "You're all fired, some of you may be rehired by Sony Online Entertainment" an-
Brad McQuaid:: I know those people and have a great deal of respect for them, but that sounds awful cold the way you said it...
f13.net: No, you don't understand. Everyone said the same thing. I have confirmed it with no less than six people. That they used the phrase "you're all fired." On that day. In a parking lot. My big problem with this is, well, I don't know your relationship with Bill Fisher, but at this event he made a joke about his stock options buying him a new house. I don't even know how you can comment on this.
Brad McQuaid:: I would find that hard to believe.
f13.net: Uhm....
Brad McQuaid:: I think, this is speculation... there was some turmoil on design and Fisher was doing very well and he was one of the people who wasn't let go. If you can imagine perhaps a designer who was let go having some animosity for Bill and maybe hearing that he said something like that or maybe they overheard him sarcastically talking to one of his buddies like "huh, oh, yea, I'm gonna go buy a car now." Ya know, we're not talking those kind of dollar figures I don't think. I can imagine him going "Woo hoo, going to buy a new car" and I can imagine a third party not knowing Bill's sarcastic joke-around with the guys personality and hearing it and taking it in a bad way, you know what I'm saying? I wasn't there. But I sincerely doubt that he said that in the way it's being construed.
f13.net: Going another direction, I know that there was at one point, a coup that was attempted. On the business side, what happened to the relationship with you and Jeff Butler?
Brad McQuaid:: When you work with someone as long as Jeff Butler and I have - a long time... you're basically business partners. You agree on most things but there are certain things you do not agree on. We have been described as an old married couple. So, ya know, we've had our disagreements. In the early days, everything was new and we had all these wild and cool ideas to share with each other. And then after the stress of running a business together and seeing each other everyday, we could complete each other's sentences. We've had our disagreements, but I wish him the best in whatever he's doing.
f13.net: This is something that, well, I've already got the people involved to corroborate... did the affair between April Jones and Jeff Butler actually affect anything in development?
Brad McQuaid:: I'm not going to comment on their personal life.
f13.net: Not their personal life, the office life due to it.
Brad McQuaid:: Uhm, I have a lot of respect for them. In general, I mean, you work together so much and so many hours in game development and it's creative and people have common interests. This guy watches BSG, this guy collects comic books. You make lots of friends. Relationships form that are more serious than friendships. The only way to stop that would be to basically fire people on the spot and draw some line in the sand. I don't even know how to define that, the legalities. Or do what most companies do and forbid relationships. But we're in games, I don't want to work in a dry environment. I want to goof off and have friends. Obviously something like... a scenario like that isn't good for the company. Is there an easy solution... how to not let that occur.
f13.net: I'll be honest, you touched on my next question. I heard that, well, apparently it was an open secret. That's fine. Whatever. It happens in every office. But the real problem was, well, seemed to have been that - Jeff's wife still worked there. How do you... you know, never mind, it needs to come from them.
Brad McQuaid:: It made it worse, that's all I'll say.
f13.net: I'm going to do a 180 here. Apologies. But you're a religious person. You've said that angels and demons not being in EQ while you were there isn't just because of your religious beliefs. What was the core reason?
Brad McQuaid:: There are different symbols, beings, supernatural beliefs - belief systems that people have that are active today in this world. Gods, demons, angels, others. I guess, in a textbook, would be world religions. You can't avoid offending everyone. Let's take angels. Christians generally believe that angels are real. Many other people don't. That they're mythological beings. Most people don't believe that dragons are real. Or that a griffin is real. Putting a griffin in your game though, versus an angel - is much less a problem. What we decided to do was to avoid anything that's from a major religion. There's some fundamentalist Christian that won't let their kid play period. Dragons, dungeons, death. Whatever. There's also going to be more moderate Christians who are going to let them play EQ or DAoC because there aren't demons or angels or something. We're creative enough people, why not just use the plentiful fantasy out there and not elements of major religions. I also wanted to not use symbols, even from dead religions. While I definitely think it would be great to take themes from mythologies like East-Asian, Norse, Egyptian and things like that - let's avoid using an ankh or whatever. Let's come up with our own religion and our own symbol that means life. This is a different world. Maybe we don't have the time or creativity of Tolkien - who borrowed from mythologies. We're not going to make our own huge religion, but at least come up with our own pantheon of gods and symbols and whatnot. That was just one of the things I wanted to do early on - by simply avoiding offending people if we can. To an atheist sure, an angel is no different than a griffin. But Johnny's mom will let him play our game.
I am a Christian so this probably goes back to me seeing 'Deities and Demigods' and kind of being bummed about that even though I still play [D&D]. It would have made me feel better if they had not used - or rather, had other creatures that weren't demons. So, is this kind of like, "if I'm going to be involved in making games, can a kid play this without being bother by it or his parents saying get away from that evil stuff!" That's the origin of it, but by no means is it me trying to hoist my religious beliefs on anybod-
f13.net: That cuts directly to the core of something I've heard from at least a couple employees who are upset. Someone is alleging - and I'm sure I'll get a straight no comment, but please just deal with the question... Did you distribute religious materials and offer promotions based on people who took you up on it?
Brad McQuaid:: Absolutely not. No and no. Nor would I ever.
f13.net: Ok.
Brad McQuaid:: I believe very much in spreading the gospel of Christianity through ones actions. I don't think you're going to force or debate anyone into believing something. It's got to be based on your actions and morals. On top of that in a work environment - and on top of that, in a management position - it is completely unacceptable to do anything like that and I wouldn't dream of it.
f13.net: Fair enough. So, a lot of people talked about this Andy Platter guy. From two people, I got the exact same response. Neither know who he was, or what he did, or why he played any role in the firing of employees. Simply to explain to the employees reading this - who was he and what did he do?
Brad McQuaid:: He was the Director of Operations. He tested servers, websites, and so on. Most of the developers would probably not interact with him. He had also been out of town recently with a family illness. I'll stop there. As for why he was involved in that event, I have no comment because I wasn't there. As the company grew, well, it's another sociological thing. The company gets big enough, it leases another building. Then the people in the first building are like "what do those guys do?" That's just more human nature stuff. If you're a programmer you don't interact with design much. What does that guy do? I haven't seen anything he's done. Is he a waste of space? Well, he could be the best designer on the team. That's just people.
f13.net: I've kind of got a family tree of the company going here and normally this isn't tolerated. I'm trying to figure out - because I know you didn't have final say in a lot of things, specifically hiring practices among non-design folks...
Brad McQuaid:: The larger the company got, the more we had to build up middle management and delegate responsibility.
f13.net: Well, how did nepotism run so freely to the point that - there's just, ugh, so many family members in this company. We've got brothers, brother-in-laws, a wife - how did this happen? Did you need that many people?
Brad McQuaid:: Two answers. I don't know enough about well. I don't have a family tree. I don't know if this is a higher than normal number. You may have that information. I don't. The other thing too is, when you need to rely on somebody or know somebody or vouch for somebody, especially in a creative environment and know how they interact with people... well, you find a lot of pre-existing friendships and relationships. Because so many interests are shared, even some relationships that didn't exist beforehand - it's likely to happen just like it does with MMOs. You spend all this time with people and have a real relationship with people. I honestly don't know if there's more or less in Sigil.
f13.net: Ok.
Brad McQuaid:: We didn't encourage it. We did encourage the general concept of "Hey do you know this guy, can you vouch for him?" "Well yea, I've known this guy six year. He's intelligent and super creative and he won't steal your car."
f13.net: Well of course, there's "I've known this guy 22 years, he's my brother. In secret, he's a big douche."
Brad McQuaid:: That's the risk. And then you find out and you hopefully get rid of both. The industry is not that big. Basically, if you say "hey, I vouch for my brother" and then you hire him and they both turn out to be jerks, ya know, you're gonna hopefully get rid of them. When it comes time to recommendations, it's going to get around. Formally or informally. That stuff doesn't work out so well. More times than not, you get a good person than you get some guy who can't hold down a job.
f13.net: Ok, here's a loaded one. A number of people have said there was one QA member up through at least beta 3 or 4. How did an MMOG survive with one person dedicated to quality assurance.
Brad McQuaid:: The original plan was to use Microsoft's vast testing facility. We were to keep a small testing team at Sigil -
f13.net: But one?!
Brad McQuaid:: No. A small team that was very close to the dev team and use the massive facility at Microsoft. When that relationship went south and we were scrambling for money, we simply did not have the room to grow.
f13.net: Can you talk about The Vision a bit?
Brad McQuaid:: Well, it goes way back to Everquest.
f13.net: Well, we know that.
Brad McQuaid:: I honestly don't know when it started. I probably started using... I think it had to do with something I commented on - why some games - well, you can tell if a development team really had their hearts in it or not, regardless of the type of game it may be. I think for any game, you need a vision. Either a visionary or visionaries and if you don't have that, you kind of meander around and I don't think you get nearly as strong of a game. Or anything. A piece of art. Anything creative. Unless there's a strong vision. My guess is I was doing a long-winded post back in 1999.
f13.net: Finally, is there anything you'd like to say to the people who were let go without warning. You weren't there, and you're the type of guy that would have said... something.
Brad McQuaid:: I'm really sorry it went down that way. The way that it did. I can promise you that I and everybody in upper management did everything they possibly could to avoid this happening. Sigil was everything to us. It was our dream. Starting our own company. Providing a great working environment. You know, we worked months and months - as great as SOE is, and it was great working with them as a partner - as some people said "Brad, why did you sell out to.." We didn't. We had hoped that Vanguard would be more of a success. It turned out we all worked very hard. Did the best we could. I thank everyone for pouring their hearts and souls into the game. I think it's a great game. I think it has huge potential. When I've talked and made posts about the future of Vanguard and talked about Vanguard next year - I do believe that it was planned and architected to be an amazing game. We hoped to do it as our own company. It didn't work out that way. I'm sorry.
As CEO, I take full responsibility and the buck stops here. I did everything I could and so did everybody else to make it work. But it didn't. I hope that everything works out for you guys in the future. If there's anything I can do - recommendations, things like that for all of you guys - please don't hesitate to contact me. I hope that you learned a lot in your time at Sigil and that you've become a more valuable asset in the games industry than when you first started. I wish you guys the best. I'm sorry that I wasn't there the day that people were let go. But honestly, these months have been very, very heartbreaking for me. Emotionally I couldn't have handled it. I would've been sitting there bawling my head off. You can ask anybody who knows me about the heartache I've felt because things didn't work out for the company. I do believe Sony will do a great job. I know they will.
That doesn't make it any easier for someone who lost their job. It's got to be a horrible thing. You can ask people when I had to fire one person who really deserved it, I'd have to take the afternoon off because it was so hard for me. And that was firing someone who deserved it. Laying people off was just too much. I guess I'm too empathic in some ways. I took the role of CEO very seriously, that I was responsible for every person there. Their well-being. It got harder and harder as the company. It was a weight on my shoulders. Please, again, if there's anything I can do to help you out. Do not hesitate to contact me. And I wish you guys the very best.
f13.net: Thank you.
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SOE will take Vanguard and make it into EverQuest 3?
That's just hilarious.
(but I guess that it must feel awkward to the fans, oh well) *shrugs*
Im not a fan to vanguard and im saying i see the potential in the actual engine itself. Theres endless things possiblities from this game engine. So yes i do think SOE would use this engine in creating Everquest 3. The crafting, diplomacy, and just plan adventuring in Vanguards engine is wonderful just they didnt take the time to push a 100% title and got AXED. I would in my opinion say vanguard was 70% done. Vanguard was for the hardcore mmorpgist and wasnt plagued by cartoon graphics. had a mature feel just couldnt deliever. So yes i do think Everquest 3 will use this engine it is a wonderful engine just needs to be tweekd and have its performance issues fixed. Im not saying they are going to turn Vanguard into EQ3 im just saying they are going to use the engine for EQ3 with vanguard still out there if it still has its VANboys or Vangurls for the ladies.
Im not a fan to vanguard and im saying i see the potential in the actual engine itself. Theres endless things possiblities from this game engine. So yes i do think SOE would use this engine in creating Everquest 3. The crafting, diplomacy, and just plan adventuring in Vanguards engine is wonderful just they didnt take the time to push a 100% title and got AXED. I would in my opinion say vanguard was 70% done. Vanguard was for the hardcore mmorpgist and wasnt plagued by cartoon graphics. had a mature feel just couldnt deliever. So yes i do think Everquest 3 will use this engine it is a wonderful engine just needs to be tweekd and have its performance issues fixed. Im not saying they are going to turn Vanguard into EQ3 im just saying they are going to use the engine for EQ3 with vanguard still out there if it still has its VANboys or Vangurls for the ladies.
Is the graphics engine Unreal 1, 2 or 3?
Because Lineage 2 has got the Unreal 2 graphics engine and that game looks better than Vanguard.
Im not a fan to vanguard and im saying i see the potential in the actual engine itself. Theres endless things possiblities from this game engine. So yes i do think SOE would use this engine in creating Everquest 3. The crafting, diplomacy, and just plan adventuring in Vanguards engine is wonderful just they didnt take the time to push a 100% title and got AXED. I would in my opinion say vanguard was 70% done. Vanguard was for the hardcore mmorpgist and wasnt plagued by cartoon graphics. had a mature feel just couldnt deliever. So yes i do think Everquest 3 will use this engine it is a wonderful engine just needs to be tweekd and have its performance issues fixed. Im not saying they are going to turn Vanguard into EQ3 im just saying they are going to use the engine for EQ3 with vanguard still out there if it still has its VANboys or Vangurls for the ladies.
Is the graphics engine Unreal 1, 2 or 3?
Because Lineage 2 has got the Unreal 2 graphics engine and that game looks better than Vanguard.
I don't know for sure but i just read somewhere that it was powered by the Unreal 3 engine. But either way it goes i cant agree that lineage 2 looks better then Vanguard. Yes you have to turn every single thing on and you wont be able to move unless you got a serious PC but it looks amazing. lineage looks good but not as good in my opinion.Im not a fan to vanguard and im saying i see the potential in the actual engine itself. Theres endless things possiblities from this game engine. So yes i do think SOE would use this engine in creating Everquest 3. The crafting, diplomacy, and just plan adventuring in Vanguards engine is wonderful just they didnt take the time to push a 100% title and got AXED. I would in my opinion say vanguard was 70% done. Vanguard was for the hardcore mmorpgist and wasnt plagued by cartoon graphics. had a mature feel just couldnt deliever. So yes i do think Everquest 3 will use this engine it is a wonderful engine just needs to be tweekd and have its performance issues fixed. Im not saying they are going to turn Vanguard into EQ3 im just saying they are going to use the engine for EQ3 with vanguard still out there if it still has its VANboys or Vangurls for the ladies.
Is the graphics engine Unreal 1, 2 or 3?
Because Lineage 2 has got the Unreal 2 graphics engine and that game looks better than Vanguard.
I don't know for sure but i just read somewhere that it was powered by the Unreal 3 engine. But either way it goes i cant agree that lineage 2 looks better then Vanguard. Yes you have to turn every single thing on and you wont be able to move unless you got a serious PC but it looks amazing. lineage looks good but not as good in my opinion.Lineage 2 looks good, Lineage 1 looks like crap.
(just wanted to get that thing straightend out)
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Seriously, this has been an abortion from the start it seems.
Yet, they still sold off 200,000 boxes to a largely unsuspecting public, knowing it was a broken product. This is nothing short of fraud in my view.
SoE would have been better off not getting involved in this disaster, letting it die pre launch, and focusing their energies on EQ2 as their premier traditional MMORPG with a huge and open 'Sea of Storms' (or whatever) expansion and a media blitz relaunch to get people back into the game.
By all means, strip mine Sigil's staff base of anyone with value, take whatever good ideas VG had (some form of diplomacy, open seas, player crafted boats, one or two of the class concepts etc), or whatever, but for the love of God let it die.
I am failing to see what this game brings to the party that EQ2 cannot just steal and incorperate at the fraction of the cost...
SoE... cancel this game, give all VG purchasers a free up to date download of EQ2 (with all expansions) and a month of free playtime, and lets have one thriving game instead of two ailing ones... plz?
btw, one last thought... they are actually paying Brad to have his name associated with VG? lol goddam...
Brad is blaming everyone, but himself. As always he blames everything else and rambles on endlessly trying to cover his ass. Screw him and any future games he cooks up in his screwed up mind. I'm done giving him my business, forever.
Someone give that nut his meds already.
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