Hundreds if not thousands of people have witnessed or been a victim of Dev/GM/ISD misconduct, that's why so many people are now cancelling their accounts. Either the corruption will be dealt with, or EvE will burn. The masses have smelled blood, and there's not much time left or they'll feed on the corpses of CCP (not to be taken literally ).
Welp,sorry guys i just can't take it anymore.canceled i just canceled all 6 of my accounts,jettisoned all my ore and gave away all my ships.
I knew long before anyone and never once said anything bad about it cause it happens in a lot more games than people know and most would just rather deny it and look the other way.My titan will stay with BoB and i wish them all the best but i quit the guilt is just killin me.so long.
it's too bad too cause for almost 5 years i enjoyed getting stronger and more powerful even when i WASN'T playing.
if they make an Eve 2 i might play,but it's all just too messed up right now.
I played EvE for two years, and I quit because BoB and MC have won the game. They haven't won in the sense that they actually coerce everyone. They've won in the sense that they can coerce anyone, anytime, anywhere.
If BoB and MC have not cheated --- I salute them. They won one of the toughest MMO games in the world.
If BoB and MC have cheated --- I shame them. They spoiled a great, no, a brilliant, game for many people.
EvE is won. Play another game in which the outcome is still in play. The EvE universe has been conquered, de jure if not de facto.
---------- Isn't it interesting that the same people who laugh at science fiction listen to weather forecasts and economists?
I suggest that people read it and form their own opinions about it, as CCP's results hold at least just as much water as the original accusations.
I believe Arkanon just delivered a timely "pics or stfu"
Now who was claiming the petitions didn't exist again? That people continue to rally around the flag of a vindictive wanted criminal, hiding in a south east asian country with no extradition treaty is baffling to me.
I suggest that people read it and form their own opinions about it, as CCP's results hold at least just as much water as the original accusations.
I believe Arkanon just delivered a timely "pics or stfu"
Now who was claiming the petitions didn't exist again? That people continue to rally around the flag of a vindictive wanted criminal, hiding in a south east asian country with no extradition treaty is baffling to me. That is indeed I nice clear up and I personally do not doubt the truth of its content.
Though, why was a petition send when:
[ 2007.03.20 06:30:32 ] D4kkon > petition her
[ 2007.03.20 06:30:57 ] Orange Species > nah no petition
[ 2007.03.20 06:31:00 ] Orange Species > msn chat is enough
Also, as Dianabolic made it clear that BoB communicates with the devs through different channels than the petition system it will never be possible for CCP to truely clear it self.
CCP have proven themselves innocent with a bunch of screenies and blanked out names? Atleast the ISD guy provided names, all it boils down to is CCPs word against other peoples. He claims they can't reveal names but I think they're gonna have to at some point. If they are innocent and have the petition logs they need to post it and say "This player asked for us to help out, here's the petition".
Until they reveal the Identity of the player that petitioned those screenies ain't worth the hairs on my backside. If they do and the Goon says "Nope I never petitioned them" then it's back to one persons word against another and who you believe.
As for the ISD guy the only thing they added was alleging they had many complaints about him before. I'd like to see some of the guys he mentioned post and say "He lied we never had that conversation". If they all did that then it'd change the landscape, as for the MSN thing that'll always be one persons word against the other.
For things like this you need logs and witnesses, most people on this forum don't take a screenie as any kind of proof anyway. Why would CCP think that a crappy screenie that anyone could cobble together then blanked out would be conclusive proof?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Also, as Dianabolic made it clear that BoB communicates with the devs through different channels than the petition system it will never be possible for CCP to truely clear it self.
I have a dev on my msn too, does that mean I cheat?
CCP have proven themselves innocent with a bunch of screenies and blanked out names? Atleast the ISD guy provided names, all it boils down to is CCPs word against other peoples. He claims they can't reveal names but I think they're gonna have to at some point. If they are innocent and have the petition logs they need to post it and say "This player asked for us to help out, here's the petition". Until they reveal the Identity of the player that petitioned those screenies ain't worth the hairs on my backside. If they do and the Goon says "Nope I never petitioned them" then it's back to one persons word against another and who you believe. As for the ISD guy the only thing they added was alleging they had many complaints about him before. I'd like to see some of the guys he mentioned post and say "He lied we never had that conversation". If they all did that then it'd change the landscape, as for the MSN thing that'll always be one persons word against the other. For things like this you need logs and witnesses, most people on this forum don't take a screenie as any kind of proof anyway. Why would CCP think that a crappy screenie that anyone could cobble together then blanked out would be conclusive proof?
Don't be an idiot. This is not related to the EULA or any other rule of theirs.
If they left true names on those petitions they could get sued, big time. People keep forgetting that part.
For things like this you need logs and witnesses, most people on this forum don't take a screenie as any kind of proof anyway. Why would CCP think that a crappy screenie that anyone could cobble together then blanked out would be conclusive proof?
But why are goon's screenies more convincing than CCP's? Why do everyone take their side?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to blindly defend CCP. I just don't see why everyone instantly chooses to go against CCP when both sides show equally as "inconclusive" proof, as you suggest.
The "open letter to CCP" claimed that no petition was filed. Names blanked out or not, the screenshots show that petitions *did* get filed. The screenshots being fake is no less likely than the "open letter" ones being fake.
For things like this you need logs and witnesses, most people on this forum don't take a screenie as any kind of proof anyway. Why would CCP think that a crappy screenie that anyone could cobble together then blanked out would be conclusive proof?
But why are goon's screenies more convincing than CCP's? Why do everyone take their side?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to blindly defend CCP. I just don't see why everyone instantly chooses to go against CCP when both sides show equally as "inconclusive" proof, as you suggest.
The "open letter to CCP" claimed that no petition was filed. Names blanked out or not, the screenshots show that petitions *did* get filed. The screenshots being fake is no less likely than the "open letter" ones being fake.
I agree and it's one persons word against anothers, no more no less. CCP has a massive hurdle however, they caught a DEV cheating and decided to take no action and leave the fruits of his escapade ingame. They only admitted to anything once members of BoB who were privy to this cheating had there site hacked and logs taken of them discussing it. CCP not knowing if there were more sites and logs of a similar nature and knowing there were many many witnesses pleaded guilty to the accusation.
As for the Goons they may well be a bunch of tossers but I've never see them use any out of game mechanics to crap on my game. They always played by the rules ingame which is more than I can say for CCP/BoD.
As for the ISD volunteer I've never met him but have been in contact with Aegis Militia a few times, I'd be interested to hear from the members of AG that are alleged to have been asked to keep quiet by CCP. That would go along way to clearing up his accusations, though AG are still saying nothing as far as I know.
After the T20 debacle the burden of proof has moved onto CCPs shoulders, that's just the way it is. They don't have to give any proof but they're in business, and if subs drop off drasticaly (doubt very much they will) they'll be forced to start naming names rather than go bust!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
For things like this you need logs and witnesses, most people on this forum don't take a screenie as any kind of proof anyway. Why would CCP think that a crappy screenie that anyone could cobble together then blanked out would be conclusive proof?
But why are goon's screenies more convincing than CCP's? Why do everyone take their side?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to blindly defend CCP. I just don't see why everyone instantly chooses to go against CCP when both sides show equally as "inconclusive" proof, as you suggest.
The "open letter to CCP" claimed that no petition was filed. Names blanked out or not, the screenshots show that petitions *did* get filed. The screenshots being fake is no less likely than the "open letter" ones being fake.
I agree and it's one persons word against anothers, no more no less. CCP has a massive hurdle however, they caught a DEV cheating and decided to take no action and leave the fruits of his escapade ingame. They only admitted to anything once members of BoB who were privy to this cheating had there site hacked and logs taken of them discussing it. CCP not knowing if there were more sites and logs of a similar nature and knowing there were many many witnesses pleaded guilty to the accusation.
As for the Goons they may well be a bunch of tossers but I've never see them use any out of game mechanics to crap on my game. They always played by the rules ingame which is more than I can say for CCP/BoD.
As for the ISD volunteer I've never met him but have been in contact with Aegis Militia a few times, I'd be interested to hear from the members of AG that are alleged to have been asked to keep quiet by CCP. That would go along way to clearing up his accusations, though AG are still saying nothing as far as I know.
After the T20 debacle the burden of proof has moved onto CCPs shoulders, that's just the way it is. They don't have to give any proof but they're in business, and if subs drop off drasticaly (doubt very much they will) they'll be forced to start naming names rather than go bust!
You seem to forget that the goons used an non eve program to edit there ingame cliant to give them an ingame PvP advantage till they were caught out.
Also the comment in red is nonsence as its definatly unproven.
No sorry I have some screenshots with names censored that conclusivly prove beyond a doubt the Goons never cheated. CCP launched that accusation on a holiday weekend inorder to undermine their image in EVE!
/sarcasm off
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
No sorry I have some screenshots with names censored that conclusivly prove beyond a doubt the Goons never cheated. CCP launched that accusation on a holiday weekend inorder to undermine their image in EVE! /sarcasm off
No sorry I have some screenshots with names censored that conclusivly prove beyond a doubt the Goons never cheated. CCP launched that accusation on a holiday weekend inorder to undermine their image in EVE! /sarcasm off
Dont you get tired making stuff up?
No, I'm job hunting in Iceland.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Originally posted by Faur But why are goon's screenies more convincing than CCP's? Why do everyone take their side?
Part of it is probably that EVE devs cherry-picked what to respond to; they have a petition that supposedly required the GM to become part of the corp (which is believable), but they didn't address why petitions asking about the action were allegedly deleted (why only answer a simple question like that after someone raises a stink), or the other allegations about favoring a particular alliance. If someone says 2 major things about me and I address only part of one and ignore the other, it looks like I'm saying "this part of the accusation is false, the rest I don't have any defense for."
I love reading in-game drama turning into real life drama. MMO conspiracy is the new form of entertainment. After reading all the forums.. I think this is all just a big misunderstanding. I mean why the hell would CCP try to sabotage their own game and screw their customers ? For favoring their real life friends? Come on.. the owners and employees of CCP aren't that stupid... hell if I am the owner of CCP and found out that my employees are screwing with the customers.. they'll be out of job faster than they can blink.
Im not going to cast my vote either way but... Why havent I heard of this happening at any other game besides Eve? I mean the shit just doesnt come from no where?
Im not going to cast my vote either way but... Why havent I heard of this happening at any other game besides Eve? I mean the shit just doesnt come from no where?
There has been accusations of this in L2 as well, but because of how the community there is so unorganized it's always from a small group of players which nobody takes seriously.
My guess is that this is more likely to happen in games focusing on long term alliance wars, since you have large groups of players working together against a common enemy, and rumors of your enemy cheating is exactly what your entire alliance wants to be true. It will spread like wildfire regardless if it's true or not.
Comments
Lol, actually I was thinking of trying it but this had made me stay away.
Sorry but theres a lot of things I'll tolerate, but the one thing I won't tolerate in a game is a cheat.
152 pages-long thread ....... and player base till waiting ......
..... Arkanor and CCP IA .......... as always ......sux! .......
Is till EVE player base growing ? ........ hummmmm
btw, WTB: Orange Species MSN Contact List,
any other High ranked BoB MSN list also will be considered.
I knew long before anyone and never once said anything bad about it cause it happens in a lot more games than people know and most would just rather deny it and look the other way.My titan will stay with BoB and i wish them all the best but i quit the guilt is just killin me.so long.
it's too bad too cause for almost 5 years i enjoyed getting stronger and more powerful even when i WASN'T playing.
if they make an Eve 2 i might play,but it's all just too messed up right now.
Stagnation.
If BoB and MC have not cheated --- I salute them. They won one of the toughest MMO games in the world.
If BoB and MC have cheated --- I shame them. They spoiled a great, no, a brilliant, game for many people.
EvE is won. Play another game in which the outcome is still in play. The EvE universe has been conquered, de jure if not de facto.
----------
Isn't it interesting that the same people who laugh at science fiction listen to weather forecasts and economists?
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp
I suggest that people read it and form their own opinions about it, as CCP's results hold at least just as much water as the original accusations.
Now who was claiming the petitions didn't exist again? That people continue to rally around the flag of a vindictive wanted criminal, hiding in a south east asian country with no extradition treaty is baffling to me.
Now who was claiming the petitions didn't exist again? That people continue to rally around the flag of a vindictive wanted criminal, hiding in a south east asian country with no extradition treaty is baffling to me. That is indeed I nice clear up and I personally do not doubt the truth of its content.
Though, why was a petition send when:
[ 2007.03.20 06:30:32 ] D4kkon > petition her
[ 2007.03.20 06:30:57 ] Orange Species > nah no petition
[ 2007.03.20 06:31:00 ] Orange Species > msn chat is enough
Also, as Dianabolic made it clear that BoB communicates with the devs through different channels than the petition system it will never be possible for CCP to truely clear it self.
CCP have proven themselves innocent with a bunch of screenies and blanked out names? Atleast the ISD guy provided names, all it boils down to is CCPs word against other peoples. He claims they can't reveal names but I think they're gonna have to at some point. If they are innocent and have the petition logs they need to post it and say "This player asked for us to help out, here's the petition".
Until they reveal the Identity of the player that petitioned those screenies ain't worth the hairs on my backside. If they do and the Goon says "Nope I never petitioned them" then it's back to one persons word against another and who you believe.
As for the ISD guy the only thing they added was alleging they had many complaints about him before. I'd like to see some of the guys he mentioned post and say "He lied we never had that conversation". If they all did that then it'd change the landscape, as for the MSN thing that'll always be one persons word against the other.
For things like this you need logs and witnesses, most people on this forum don't take a screenie as any kind of proof anyway. Why would CCP think that a crappy screenie that anyone could cobble together then blanked out would be conclusive proof?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
If they left true names on those petitions they could get sued, big time. People keep forgetting that part.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to blindly defend CCP. I just don't see why everyone instantly chooses to go against CCP when both sides show equally as "inconclusive" proof, as you suggest.
The "open letter to CCP" claimed that no petition was filed. Names blanked out or not, the screenshots show that petitions *did* get filed. The screenshots being fake is no less likely than the "open letter" ones being fake.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to blindly defend CCP. I just don't see why everyone instantly chooses to go against CCP when both sides show equally as "inconclusive" proof, as you suggest.
The "open letter to CCP" claimed that no petition was filed. Names blanked out or not, the screenshots show that petitions *did* get filed. The screenshots being fake is no less likely than the "open letter" ones being fake.
I agree and it's one persons word against anothers, no more no less. CCP has a massive hurdle however, they caught a DEV cheating and decided to take no action and leave the fruits of his escapade ingame. They only admitted to anything once members of BoB who were privy to this cheating had there site hacked and logs taken of them discussing it. CCP not knowing if there were more sites and logs of a similar nature and knowing there were many many witnesses pleaded guilty to the accusation.
As for the Goons they may well be a bunch of tossers but I've never see them use any out of game mechanics to crap on my game. They always played by the rules ingame which is more than I can say for CCP/BoD.
As for the ISD volunteer I've never met him but have been in contact with Aegis Militia a few times, I'd be interested to hear from the members of AG that are alleged to have been asked to keep quiet by CCP. That would go along way to clearing up his accusations, though AG are still saying nothing as far as I know.
After the T20 debacle the burden of proof has moved onto CCPs shoulders, that's just the way it is. They don't have to give any proof but they're in business, and if subs drop off drasticaly (doubt very much they will) they'll be forced to start naming names rather than go bust!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to blindly defend CCP. I just don't see why everyone instantly chooses to go against CCP when both sides show equally as "inconclusive" proof, as you suggest.
The "open letter to CCP" claimed that no petition was filed. Names blanked out or not, the screenshots show that petitions *did* get filed. The screenshots being fake is no less likely than the "open letter" ones being fake.
I agree and it's one persons word against anothers, no more no less. CCP has a massive hurdle however, they caught a DEV cheating and decided to take no action and leave the fruits of his escapade ingame. They only admitted to anything once members of BoB who were privy to this cheating had there site hacked and logs taken of them discussing it. CCP not knowing if there were more sites and logs of a similar nature and knowing there were many many witnesses pleaded guilty to the accusation.
As for the Goons they may well be a bunch of tossers but I've never see them use any out of game mechanics to crap on my game. They always played by the rules ingame which is more than I can say for CCP/BoD.
As for the ISD volunteer I've never met him but have been in contact with Aegis Militia a few times, I'd be interested to hear from the members of AG that are alleged to have been asked to keep quiet by CCP. That would go along way to clearing up his accusations, though AG are still saying nothing as far as I know.
After the T20 debacle the burden of proof has moved onto CCPs shoulders, that's just the way it is. They don't have to give any proof but they're in business, and if subs drop off drasticaly (doubt very much they will) they'll be forced to start naming names rather than go bust!
You seem to forget that the goons used an non eve program to edit there ingame cliant to give them an ingame PvP advantage till they were caught out.
Also the comment in red is nonsence as its definatly unproven.
No sorry I have some screenshots with names censored that conclusivly prove beyond a doubt the Goons never cheated. CCP launched that accusation on a holiday weekend inorder to undermine their image in EVE!
/sarcasm off
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
No, I'm job hunting in Iceland.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Part of it is probably that EVE devs cherry-picked what to respond to; they have a petition that supposedly required the GM to become part of the corp (which is believable), but they didn't address why petitions asking about the action were allegedly deleted (why only answer a simple question like that after someone raises a stink), or the other allegations about favoring a particular alliance. If someone says 2 major things about me and I address only part of one and ignore the other, it looks like I'm saying "this part of the accusation is false, the rest I don't have any defense for."
I really miss that game.
-----------------------
</OBAMA>
My guess is that this is more likely to happen in games focusing on long term alliance wars, since you have large groups of players working together against a common enemy, and rumors of your enemy cheating is exactly what your entire alliance wants to be true. It will spread like wildfire regardless if it's true or not.