100% agree with the OP. DFO appears to be the only hope. If DFO doesn't release and there's no other game out there that is just like it, I will quit MMO's completely. Actually I already have, but I am still waiting. The only MMO i've actually bought and played in the past 6 or 7 years is Guild Wars, and tha's hardly an MMO, and one can hardly say I actually play it (for a few weeks once every 6 months). Every other MMO is just download, try it, realize it's another EQ clone, uninstall it, move on. I have a serious issue with the no skill, auto attacking, and no sense of danger or risk from the MMO's of today.
Originally posted by CaesarsGhost
...
Here's a good question:
Why do all "hardcore PvP" games get delayed as such? Or end up being buggy beyond comprehension? Is there something about that particular style of play, or is it something else? Is "hardcore PvP" programming more difficult (read: it's not)? Or are the crews who take on the project slightly dilusional, hoping to sell the game on the term alone.
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If by "all hardcore PvP games" you mean the only one in development that we know of (Darkfall) then you have no clue how hard it is to program that game since you're not. <mod edit> And if you're referring to the thousands of examples of already released "hardcore PvP" games (read: approx. 4) then you must be delusional. Eve is very popular, UO is considered by many the best MMO to date until it changed and became non-hardcore, and then there's AC and Shadowbane. Those last two were buggy but still considered great because of the gameplay. So if at least 2/4 can be done right then why the hell do you have such a beef with these types of games? Grow up.
The reason why there's so few good examples is because no one's making them. The "hardcore PvP" game has just as much of a chance as any PvE centric game, but big companies that can afford to release a non-buggy one won't make them until more small companies become successful with one in this generation. If DFO does release and fails, that will likely end any chance of any company ever making a good hardcore pvp game anytime soon.
In my honest opinion and from what i've SEEN of darkfall, be it from videos, pics, information about it..... This game will not save open pvp. Simply because your the minority and you always will be. Even if the game is fantastic don't expect it to be as popular as the "Safe" "normal" model is. The only people could pull something like this off would be blizzard in all honesty.
It would need
A. Recognition(darkfall is very niche and it's not well known don't kid yourself)
B. Perfection in gameplay rather then features. Open pvp with looting is very easy and blizzard could make a wow server like that in less then a week. It's the other things thats important, will darkfall deliver it?
C. Stuff to do, this may be me talking, but ganking random people, and random world pvp isn't enough for me to keep playing a game, raid towns etc? sure when your guilds all on at a scheduled time, but at that point scheduled pvp raids, how is this any different then schedule pve raids in warcraft? I hate basing my life around a game, i hate feeling obligated to play.
I honestly don't think darkfall will deliver enough to be massively successful, or to revolutionize mmorpgs or even spawn more trying to copy it.
And now to insert my generic comment on open sandbox pvp
"When it comes a point where gameplay is no longer fun for you, and you play mmorpgs for the emotions it makes you feel, loss, anger, hatred, then you need to re-evaluate your life because you are not wanting a game, but a life"
In my honest opinion and from what i've SEEN of darkfall, be it from videos, pics, information about it..... This game will not save open pvp. Simply because your the minority and you always will be. Even if the game is fantastic don't expect it to be as popular as the "Safe" "normal" model is. The only people could pull something like this off would be blizzard in all honesty.
It would need
A. Recognition(darkfall is very niche and it's not well known don't kid yourself)
B. Perfection in gameplay rather then features. Open pvp with looting is very easy and blizzard could make a wow server like that in less then a week. It's the other things thats important, will darkfall deliver it?
C. Stuff to do, this may be me talking, but ganking random people, and random world pvp isn't enough for me to keep playing a game, raid towns etc? sure when your guilds all on at a scheduled time, but at that point scheduled pvp raids, how is this any different then schedule pve raids in warcraft? I hate basing my life around a game, i hate feeling obligated to play.
I honestly don't think darkfall will deliver enough to be massively successful, or to revolutionize mmorpgs or even spawn more trying to copy it.
And now to insert my generic comment on open sandbox pvp
"When it comes a point where gameplay is no longer fun for you, and you play mmorpgs for the emotions it makes you feel, loss, anger, hatred, then you need to re-evaluate your life because you are not wanting a game, but a life"
You have an extremely narrow minded view of sandbox MMO's. You obviously don't see the limitless possibilities of an MMO like DFO. Be a hero on the battlefield, where it takes SKILL and not BUTTON mashing and items to win. Be a famous theif, have your special hideout in some cave with all your loot. Be a politician, in a game where the laws and towns are made by players. Collect all your severed heads and trophies and put them on the wall in one of your houses or mansions.
Games like DFO are revolutionary, YOU shape your own destiny in the game, the penalties aren't game mechanics but players laws. Play a game where your the developer, where your actions shape the world.
Roma Victor is a great example on how open pvp should be done...no uber items, real time combat, harsh death penalty (full loot, wounds that effect ur speed and combat ability, and the ability to destroy items such as huts, buildings, clothing, weapons etc...
As for instances, theres nothing wrong with them, when used correctly they are very good, like in lord of the rings, where it advances the storyline, you can also have instances that raise the difficulty, change the dungeon, bg w/e, how is any of that carebear? because you can't attack the other group?
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not sure bout some of your points i think you misunderstand the original post. but yeah instances really do ruin immersion plus thats not really an MMO. An instance separates a group of players from the world. it also allows developers to split off pvp combat into small groups, like 40 vs 40. Instances removes control from the players and makes the game feel like a shooter or Guild Wars.
Instances main reason for instance is to make it so raid bosses only belong to a specific group thuis way you dont have to camp them. thus they're not really needed in an Open PvP Game
Yeah, thats true they are not a good idea for a game that has open pvp. Also instances aka bgs really did ruin alot of the fun in wow, its just gone down hill since, there used to be fairly big battles going on all the time in the game, then as soon as they released bgs it just died instantly
What i meant by that comment is to just explain there are some good things that can be done with instances, atm most instances have either ruined another aspect of a game, or have been over used aka guild wars, and make the game to segregated.
Im sure that if implemented in more unique ways, for instance have a instanced dungeon thats always changing, could be good.
Or using them like in lord of the rings to change entire areas of the game based on how far you are in the story, i think its great doing a quest for a change that says this town is under attack, and you actually see the town under attack and change permently because of it, whilst still being like it was before for those that haven't experienced the content.
It just seems that alot of people the OP as well think that because instances have atm been very poorly used that they are overall bad for the game.
Oh another example of a well used instance, i think is what potb is doing with battles changing in the instance based on how many people you have in the group and how difficult you want it to be, it also gives other players to join the instance.
I think if DFO(darkfall) will not be released, then hardcore open is dead?. Almost all mmorpgs are more and more casual and save to play no danger in pvp. Instance, savezones, very controlled and organise areas with no loss of xp items when you die, you already know upfront whats going to happen when battle begins:(. If this is the future? Im affraid im not playing any mmo anymore:( I know majority mmo community love it play save no risk games and hate open pvp, they think only stupid gankers in games like that(not true offcorse), still have my hopes DFO (darkfall) that it ever will be released, its my only hope. I have nothing agains other mmo,s its just not my cup of tea thats all.
You are correct. FFA PvP is DEAD. However, MMORPGs will continue to open up an FFA PvP server version of the game, just like Vanguard has done.
I never get why it's imprtant to be able to loot someones items in PvP. If you really like PvP then it should be enough to beat someone else. Wanting looted items just points to greed and wanting to make other players suffer loss. Thats why so many people jumped to EQ when it came out after Ultima Online. When you spend a lot of time on something then it hurts a lot to lose that in a few seconds to some random players who are higher level or group gankers who wait together.
The reason looting is important is because it adds drama to the game. Today's mainstream MMORPGs are boring and lack any thrill what so ever. It's that fear of loss that makes the game thrilling and fun to play. In PVP, it also makes a guy think twice before initiating an attack on sombody or venturing into a dangerous area. The most fun times I've had in an MMORPG was in the ealry UO days when PVP was the norm. Anyone remember that feeling you used to get when approaching the enterance of a dungeon with your freinds, not knowing if a group of super hack macro juiced PVP gangsters were hiding just off the screen waiting to mash you and you're buddies down with 2 casts? Although I was on the recieving end of most of the PVP in those days, it was still fun.
I guess you can think of PVPers are online thrill junkies who want to get their fix online instead of base jumping, big game hunting, or some other extreme sport. It's not for everyone but there are a lot of us out there. SO SOMBODY MAKE A FREAKING GAME ALREADY!!!!!
Ultima Online 98~04 Dark Age of Camelot 03~07 Final Fantasy XI 04~06 Guild Wars 05~08 World of Warcraft 04~05 Unsuccessful Tries: DFO/EQ2/DRaja/Rag/Req/RYL/9D/Cabal/KO/PSU/RF/GE/TO/TR/DDO/EVE/LoTRO/L2/RZ/SWG/VG
I never get why it's imprtant to be able to loot someones items in PvP. If you really like PvP then it should be enough to beat someone else. Wanting looted items just points to greed and wanting to make other players suffer loss. Thats why so many people jumped to EQ when it came out after Ultima Online. When you spend a lot of time on something then it hurts a lot to lose that in a few seconds to some random players who are higher level or group gankers who wait together.
The reason looting is important is because it adds drama to the game. Today's mainstream MMORPGs are boring and lack any thrill what so ever. It's that fear of loss that makes the game thrilling and fun to play. In PVP, it also makes a guy think twice before initiating an attack on sombody or venturing into a dangerous area. The most fun times I've had in an MMORPG was in the ealry UO days when PVP was the norm. Anyone remember that feeling you used to get when approaching the enterance of a dungeon with your freinds, not knowing if a group of super hack macro juiced PVP gangsters were hiding just off the screen waiting to mash you and you're buddies down with 2 casts? Although I was on the recieving end of most of the PVP in those days, it was still fun.
I guess you can think of PVPers are online thrill junkies who want to get their fix online instead of base jumping, big game hunting, or some other extreme sport. It's not for everyone but there are a lot of us out there. SO SOMBODY MAKE A FREAKING GAME ALREADY!!!!!
I had a lot of fun when UO came out, but the PKing was my least favorite part and why I left to play EQ. It's too much of a time sink to earn equipment and then constantly lose it to a group of players waiting around to gank you.
The best pvp ever was in a mud (not worth mentioning at this point – about 10 play now) I used to play. Full looting and you could only die so many times before final death ( about 60 times). It was very very intense. Although it was considered limited pvp because you could only attacking someone with 5 levels or your level.
someome posted a really cool thread in EVE online forum here called "tips for surviving the 0.5 run". It's by a miner that is trying to get tips to survive getting his cargo safely across a dangerous zone. you would not see this kind of cool posts if he didnt have to worry bout losing his stuff. but since he is afraid, he is actaully researching a safe way to conduct his business to avoid player pirates. I think that's kinda neat.
but fighting a mob and getting ganked aand seeing all yer loot get taken i dunno bout. but getting ganked in a fair 1v1 losing something i like the concept.
plus it should cost u money if u r trying to steal from someone just like it costs them money if they lose. not very realistic u kill someone and they respawn to hunt you.
I dunno u can argue both ways. it can be fun either way but problem is we only see the FPS shooter way in MMOs atm for most part. only a brave few diverge like EvE, starport, archlord, etc
problem is pvp communities appear to suck? they do not support the MMOs that do ahve this hardcore stuff then cry that there's nothing out there lol. its not true at all. play the freakin games thats out there now. support them and u will see more hardcore pvp games follow, period
MMOs that do ahve this hardcore stuff then cry that there's nothing out there lol. its not true at all. play the freakin games thats out there now. support them and u will see more hardcore pvp games follow, period
How can you support it when it's not fun? That will only encourage more whining from people who want better PvP (since they'll be forcing themselves to play games that don't focus on this type of gameplay). I rather just not play any MMO until one actually does that part right. I've tried to get myself to like the top MMO's out there but I couldn't settle for it. I really hope a truly unique game with good PvP comes out and I don't care if only 1000 people play it, at least we'll have a place where we can feel we belong (digitally, lol).
Most of the top games out there now tack on the PvP aspects like it's a mini-game. It's not even part of the real world the game presents. Either that, or the game is so level based that PvP is completely unfair. In my experience, if I want good, fair competition, I'll play Halo. But if I want to play an MMO, feel like i'm part of a world, and feel a sense of danger in that world, there needs to be open PvP. There's little to no sense of danger from PvE because you always know you're heading to a spawn point or an instance where you know there's monsters waiting and you've grouped up to ensure everyone does his/her part right to ensure victory. But, in open PvP there is real danger because you could be attacked at any moment. And to anyone who has played an open PvP game, they should know the satisfaction of being ambushed by a PKer, getting an adrenaline rush, retaliating, and actually wining. I remember the first time that happened to me in a game, I had tears in my eyes and my hands were shaking. Probably the most exciting time I've ever had in a game, ever. This is possible in games that aren't entirely level based or at least levels are not obvious.
Darkfall is the one game that seems to incorporate all the important aspects of a world with good PvP: danger (full loot), skill based progression (no levels, no auto attack), and also player driven content (cities, houses, etc). Tha's why it's the only hope out there. To the guy who said that would be tiring or whatever, there is PvE and quests and other activities such as farming (actual farming), crafting and those usual things, so there is variety, but it's just the PvP aspects that are being focussed on.
I never get why it's imprtant to be able to loot someones items in PvP. If you really like PvP then it should be enough to beat someone else. Wanting looted items just points to greed and wanting to make other players suffer loss. Thats why so many people jumped to EQ when it came out after Ultima Online. When you spend a lot of time on something then it hurts a lot to lose that in a few seconds to some random players who are higher level or group gankers who wait together.
The reason looting is important is because it adds drama to the game. Today's mainstream MMORPGs are boring and lack any thrill what so ever. It's that fear of loss that makes the game thrilling and fun to play. In PVP, it also makes a guy think twice before initiating an attack on sombody or venturing into a dangerous area. The most fun times I've had in an MMORPG was in the ealry UO days when PVP was the norm. Anyone remember that feeling you used to get when approaching the enterance of a dungeon with your freinds, not knowing if a group of super hack macro juiced PVP gangsters were hiding just off the screen waiting to mash you and you're buddies down with 2 casts? Although I was on the recieving end of most of the PVP in those days, it was still fun.
I guess you can think of PVPers are online thrill junkies who want to get their fix online instead of base jumping, big game hunting, or some other extreme sport. It's not for everyone but there are a lot of us out there. SO SOMBODY MAKE A FREAKING GAME ALREADY!!!!!
I had a lot of fun when UO came out, but the PKing was my least favorite part and why I left to play EQ. It's too much of a time sink to earn equipment and then constantly lose it to a group of players waiting around to gank you.
Thats why they make DFO its hardcore only so all who have nerf to play DFO will be real hardcore pvp community.
And why full loot ?,why not?
DFO is not like some other games purely concentrade on grinding for months for that one epic item set, dfo is build around PVP not other way around pve.
Nobody force anybody to go play DFO so if you gonne play it you know is open pvp no save zones and risk losing your items in pvp.
All of you who want save pvp can play so many other mmo ,we hardcore want a game like DFO to play our style simple:)
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
I never get why it's imprtant to be able to loot someones items in PvP. If you really like PvP then it should be enough to beat someone else. Wanting looted items just points to greed and wanting to make other players suffer loss. Thats why so many people jumped to EQ when it came out after Ultima Online. When you spend a lot of time on something then it hurts a lot to lose that in a few seconds to some random players who are higher level or group gankers who wait together.
The reason looting is important is because it adds drama to the game. Today's mainstream MMORPGs are boring and lack any thrill what so ever. It's that fear of loss that makes the game thrilling and fun to play. In PVP, it also makes a guy think twice before initiating an attack on sombody or venturing into a dangerous area. The most fun times I've had in an MMORPG was in the ealry UO days when PVP was the norm. Anyone remember that feeling you used to get when approaching the enterance of a dungeon with your freinds, not knowing if a group of super hack macro juiced PVP gangsters were hiding just off the screen waiting to mash you and you're buddies down with 2 casts? Although I was on the recieving end of most of the PVP in those days, it was still fun.
I guess you can think of PVPers are online thrill junkies who want to get their fix online instead of base jumping, big game hunting, or some other extreme sport. It's not for everyone but there are a lot of us out there. SO SOMBODY MAKE A FREAKING GAME ALREADY!!!!!
I had a lot of fun when UO came out, but the PKing was my least favorite part and why I left to play EQ. It's too much of a time sink to earn equipment and then constantly lose it to a group of players waiting around to gank you.
Thats why they make DFO its hardcore only so all who have nerf to play DFO will be real hardcore pvp community.
And why full loot ?,why not?
DFO is not like some other games purely concentrade on grinding for months for that one epic item set, dfo is build around PVP not other way around pve.
Nobody force anybody to go play DFO so if you gonne play it you know is open pvp no save zones and risk losing your items in pvp.
All of you who want save pvp can play so many other mmo ,we hardcore want a game like DFO to play our style simple:)
Thats fine with me. I hope they make a game you enjoy. I'm not sure why you call yourself hardcore though. Just because people don't want to wast their time and effort only to get ganked and have it taken away in a few seconds doesn't make them less hardcore. If you find some kind of stimulation out of that then thats cool. I don't really find that stimulation or excitment. I just find frustration.
Open PVP is a dinosaur , it was born during the rise and fall of Shadowbane. Developers decided that there wasnt enough demand to warrent building them. Things like WoW , the fall of Priest , the shift in player wishes, all worked against the genre to make it be a niche.
UBI was so burnt after the Shadowbane thing they only put thier greesy fingers on a sure fire deals like Ps2 titles. Major development studios who worked on these Shadowbane era games dried up.
The closest America will get to Open PVP , are Korean games. Korean games defined the PVP genre for ages.
Open PVP is a dinosaur , it was born during the rise and fall of Shadowbane. Developers decided that there wasnt enough demand to warrent building them. Things like WoW , the fall of Priest , the shift in player wishes, all worked against the genre to make it be a niche.
UBI was so burnt after the Shadowbane thing they only put thier greesy fingers on a sure fire deals like Ps2 titles. Major development studios who worked on these Shadowbane era games dried up.
The closest America will get to Open PVP , are Korean games. Korean games defined the PVP genre for ages.
Why are most NA/Euro players scared of Open PvP? is it really that big of a deal?
Take this for an example, let's say you play WoW for a few months and slowly replace your gear as you progress, replacing gear on a weekly basis and sometimes daily. If you compare this to a Open PvP game that has no looting retrictions, is it that much different? you will be replacing gear no matter if you win or lose.
Do most NA/Euro players enjoy being carebears who want everything handed to them on a silver platter?
- Do not hate it, but instead embrace the diversity.
Open PVP is a dinosaur , it was born during the rise and fall of Shadowbane. Developers decided that there wasnt enough demand to warrent building them. Things like WoW , the fall of Priest , the shift in player wishes, all worked against the genre to make it be a niche.
UBI was so burnt after the Shadowbane thing they only put thier greesy fingers on a sure fire deals like Ps2 titles. Major development studios who worked on these Shadowbane era games dried up.
The closest America will get to Open PVP , are Korean games. Korean games defined the PVP genre for ages.
Why are most NA/Euro players scared of Open PvP? is it really that big of a deal?
Take this for an example, let's say you play WoW for a few months and slowly replace your gear as you progress, replacing gear on a weekly basis and sometimes daily. If you compare this to a Open PvP game that has no looting retrictions, is it that much different? you will be replacing gear no matter if you win or lose.
Do most NA/Euro players enjoy being carebears who want everything handed to them on a silver platter?
I don't believe that is a very good comparison because when you lose your equipment you are starting over. When you are upgrading you are replacing gear over time, but you never have to go back and get the old gear in order to advance and get the new gear. In general you need the old gear in order to be tuff enough to fight the mobs/do the quests to get the new gear. In PvP you just group up and gank people and you have easy gear. Not much fun there for those who don't care much for PvP. As for the silver platter part I do enjoy when the game is fun which usually means not wasting tuns of time which loot PvP usually has. They have a message on Granada Espada don't play the game to long and take breaks. Me thinks people in Korea/Asia just take games to an unhealthy level.
Open PVP is a dinosaur , it was born during the rise and fall of Shadowbane. Developers decided that there wasnt enough demand to warrent building them. Things like WoW , the fall of Priest , the shift in player wishes, all worked against the genre to make it be a niche.
UBI was so burnt after the Shadowbane thing they only put thier greesy fingers on a sure fire deals like Ps2 titles. Major development studios who worked on these Shadowbane era games dried up.
The closest America will get to Open PVP , are Korean games. Korean games defined the PVP genre for ages.
Why are most NA/Euro players scared of Open PvP? is it really that big of a deal?
Take this for an example, let's say you play WoW for a few months and slowly replace your gear as you progress, replacing gear on a weekly basis and sometimes daily. If you compare this to a Open PvP game that has no looting retrictions, is it that much different? you will be replacing gear no matter if you win or lose.
Do most NA/Euro players enjoy being carebears who want everything handed to them on a silver platter?
I don't believe that is a very good comparison because when you lose your equipment you are starting over. When you are upgrading you are replacing gear over time, but you never have to go back and get the old gear in order to advance and get the new gear. In general you need the old gear in order to be tuff enough to fight the mobs/do the quests to get the new gear. In PvP you just group up and gank people and you have easy gear. Not much fun there for those who don't care much for PvP. As for the silver platter part I do enjoy when the game is fun which usually means not wasting tuns of time which loot PvP usually has. They have a message on Granada Espada don't play the game to long and take breaks. Me thinks people in Korea/Asia just take games to an unhealthy level.
Yet their MMO's are better? =p
Experience = ??
- Do not hate it, but instead embrace the diversity.
Originally posted by GrimReapez Why are most NA/Euro players scared of Open PvP? is it really that big of a deal?
The fact that someone doesn't like a particular game style doesn't mean that they're "scared" of it. It's pretty telling that the hardcore crowd so often resorts to bullying responses in discussions about game styles; full-loot PVP is not about PVP combat, but in being able to bully people with the threat of taking all their character's stuff.
Do most NA/Euro players enjoy being carebears who want everything handed to them on a silver platter?
It's amusing to me that the hardcore crowd whines that people don't join their game to be easy targets, but also accuses other people of wanting things handed to them on a silver platter. It's almost as funny as the fact that the 'hardcore' crowd claim to be PVPers, but want a combat system that requires people to put in more time PVEing for gear than actually engaging in PVP fights (like EVE); real PVPers would rather the game be about PVP combat than about PVE grinding to replace losses.
Open PVP is a dinosaur , it was born during the rise and fall of Shadowbane. Developers decided that there wasnt enough demand to warrent building them. Things like WoW , the fall of Priest , the shift in player wishes, all worked against the genre to make it be a niche.
UBI was so burnt after the Shadowbane thing they only put thier greesy fingers on a sure fire deals like Ps2 titles. Major development studios who worked on these Shadowbane era games dried up.
The closest America will get to Open PVP , are Korean games. Korean games defined the PVP genre for ages.
Darkfall has been 'coming soon' since like 2003, I first saw the 'beta soon' stuff in 2005 IIRC. AOC is not an open PVP game (PVP only occurs in certain areas) and does not qualify as 'hardcore' since you don't take people's stuff on death (there's some limited item you can loot). When your way of showing that these games are not dead is to list one game that certainly isn't currently alive (not playable game = not alive) and one that's absolutely not 'hardcore open PVP', it's kind of telling.
Comments
If by "all hardcore PvP games" you mean the only one in development that we know of (Darkfall) then you have no clue how hard it is to program that game since you're not. <mod edit> And if you're referring to the thousands of examples of already released "hardcore PvP" games (read: approx. 4) then you must be delusional. Eve is very popular, UO is considered by many the best MMO to date until it changed and became non-hardcore, and then there's AC and Shadowbane. Those last two were buggy but still considered great because of the gameplay. So if at least 2/4 can be done right then why the hell do you have such a beef with these types of games? Grow up.
The reason why there's so few good examples is because no one's making them. The "hardcore PvP" game has just as much of a chance as any PvE centric game, but big companies that can afford to release a non-buggy one won't make them until more small companies become successful with one in this generation. If DFO does release and fails, that will likely end any chance of any company ever making a good hardcore pvp game anytime soon.
It would need
A. Recognition(darkfall is very niche and it's not well known don't kid yourself)
B. Perfection in gameplay rather then features. Open pvp with looting is very easy and blizzard could make a wow server like that in less then a week. It's the other things thats important, will darkfall deliver it?
C. Stuff to do, this may be me talking, but ganking random people, and random world pvp isn't enough for me to keep playing a game, raid towns etc? sure when your guilds all on at a scheduled time, but at that point scheduled pvp raids, how is this any different then schedule pve raids in warcraft? I hate basing my life around a game, i hate feeling obligated to play.
I honestly don't think darkfall will deliver enough to be massively successful, or to revolutionize mmorpgs or even spawn more trying to copy it.
And now to insert my generic comment on open sandbox pvp
"When it comes a point where gameplay is no longer fun for you, and you play mmorpgs for the emotions it makes you feel, loss, anger, hatred, then you need to re-evaluate your life because you are not wanting a game, but a life"
Games like DFO are revolutionary, YOU shape your own destiny in the game, the penalties aren't game mechanics but players laws. Play a game where your the developer, where your actions shape the world.
Freedom to do anything = sandbox = fun
Then why is there so many people playing Lineage 2 ?
Its the second largest MMO next to WoW afaik
List of SOE lies
Roma Victor is a great example on how open pvp should be done...no uber items, real time combat, harsh death penalty (full loot, wounds that effect ur speed and combat ability, and the ability to destroy items such as huts, buildings, clothing, weapons etc...
mmorpg pvp is not dead, try roma victor
not sure bout some of your points i think you misunderstand the original post. but yeah instances really do ruin immersion plus thats not really an MMO. An instance separates a group of players from the world. it also allows developers to split off pvp combat into small groups, like 40 vs 40. Instances removes control from the players and makes the game feel like a shooter or Guild Wars.
Instances main reason for instance is to make it so raid bosses only belong to a specific group thuis way you dont have to camp them. thus they're not really needed in an Open PvP Game
Yeah, thats true they are not a good idea for a game that has open pvp. Also instances aka bgs really did ruin alot of the fun in wow, its just gone down hill since, there used to be fairly big battles going on all the time in the game, then as soon as they released bgs it just died instantly
What i meant by that comment is to just explain there are some good things that can be done with instances, atm most instances have either ruined another aspect of a game, or have been over used aka guild wars, and make the game to segregated.
Im sure that if implemented in more unique ways, for instance have a instanced dungeon thats always changing, could be good.
Or using them like in lord of the rings to change entire areas of the game based on how far you are in the story, i think its great doing a quest for a change that says this town is under attack, and you actually see the town under attack and change permently because of it, whilst still being like it was before for those that haven't experienced the content.
It just seems that alot of people the OP as well think that because instances have atm been very poorly used that they are overall bad for the game.
Oh another example of a well used instance, i think is what potb is doing with battles changing in the instance based on how many people you have in the group and how difficult you want it to be, it also gives other players to join the instance.
The reason looting is important is because it adds drama to the game. Today's mainstream MMORPGs are boring and lack any thrill what so ever. It's that fear of loss that makes the game thrilling and fun to play. In PVP, it also makes a guy think twice before initiating an attack on sombody or venturing into a dangerous area. The most fun times I've had in an MMORPG was in the ealry UO days when PVP was the norm. Anyone remember that feeling you used to get when approaching the enterance of a dungeon with your freinds, not knowing if a group of super hack macro juiced PVP gangsters were hiding just off the screen waiting to mash you and you're buddies down with 2 casts? Although I was on the recieving end of most of the PVP in those days, it was still fun.
I guess you can think of PVPers are online thrill junkies who want to get their fix online instead of base jumping, big game hunting, or some other extreme sport. It's not for everyone but there are a lot of us out there. SO SOMBODY MAKE A FREAKING GAME ALREADY!!!!!
Ultima Online 98~04
Dark Age of Camelot 03~07
Final Fantasy XI 04~06
Guild Wars 05~08
World of Warcraft 04~05
Unsuccessful Tries: DFO/EQ2/DRaja/Rag/Req/RYL/9D/Cabal/KO/PSU/RF/GE/TO/TR/DDO/EVE/LoTRO/L2/RZ/SWG/VG
The reason looting is important is because it adds drama to the game. Today's mainstream MMORPGs are boring and lack any thrill what so ever. It's that fear of loss that makes the game thrilling and fun to play. In PVP, it also makes a guy think twice before initiating an attack on sombody or venturing into a dangerous area. The most fun times I've had in an MMORPG was in the ealry UO days when PVP was the norm. Anyone remember that feeling you used to get when approaching the enterance of a dungeon with your freinds, not knowing if a group of super hack macro juiced PVP gangsters were hiding just off the screen waiting to mash you and you're buddies down with 2 casts? Although I was on the recieving end of most of the PVP in those days, it was still fun.
I guess you can think of PVPers are online thrill junkies who want to get their fix online instead of base jumping, big game hunting, or some other extreme sport. It's not for everyone but there are a lot of us out there. SO SOMBODY MAKE A FREAKING GAME ALREADY!!!!!
I had a lot of fun when UO came out, but the PKing was my least favorite part and why I left to play EQ. It's too much of a time sink to earn equipment and then constantly lose it to a group of players waiting around to gank you.
The best pvp ever was in a mud (not worth mentioning at this point – about 10 play now) I used to play. Full looting and you could only die so many times before final death ( about 60 times). It was very very intense. Although it was considered limited pvp because you could only attacking someone with 5 levels or your level.
someome posted a really cool thread in EVE online forum here called "tips for surviving the 0.5 run". It's by a miner that is trying to get tips to survive getting his cargo safely across a dangerous zone. you would not see this kind of cool posts if he didnt have to worry bout losing his stuff. but since he is afraid, he is actaully researching a safe way to conduct his business to avoid player pirates. I think that's kinda neat.
but fighting a mob and getting ganked aand seeing all yer loot get taken i dunno bout. but getting ganked in a fair 1v1 losing something i like the concept.
plus it should cost u money if u r trying to steal from someone just like it costs them money if they lose. not very realistic u kill someone and they respawn to hunt you.
I dunno u can argue both ways. it can be fun either way but problem is we only see the FPS shooter way in MMOs atm for most part. only a brave few diverge like EvE, starport, archlord, etc
problem is pvp communities appear to suck? they do not support the MMOs that do ahve this hardcore stuff then cry that there's nothing out there lol. its not true at all. play the freakin games thats out there now. support them and u will see more hardcore pvp games follow, period
Most of the top games out there now tack on the PvP aspects like it's a mini-game. It's not even part of the real world the game presents. Either that, or the game is so level based that PvP is completely unfair. In my experience, if I want good, fair competition, I'll play Halo. But if I want to play an MMO, feel like i'm part of a world, and feel a sense of danger in that world, there needs to be open PvP. There's little to no sense of danger from PvE because you always know you're heading to a spawn point or an instance where you know there's monsters waiting and you've grouped up to ensure everyone does his/her part right to ensure victory. But, in open PvP there is real danger because you could be attacked at any moment. And to anyone who has played an open PvP game, they should know the satisfaction of being ambushed by a PKer, getting an adrenaline rush, retaliating, and actually wining. I remember the first time that happened to me in a game, I had tears in my eyes and my hands were shaking. Probably the most exciting time I've ever had in a game, ever. This is possible in games that aren't entirely level based or at least levels are not obvious.
Darkfall is the one game that seems to incorporate all the important aspects of a world with good PvP: danger (full loot), skill based progression (no levels, no auto attack), and also player driven content (cities, houses, etc). Tha's why it's the only hope out there. To the guy who said that would be tiring or whatever, there is PvE and quests and other activities such as farming (actual farming), crafting and those usual things, so there is variety, but it's just the PvP aspects that are being focussed on.
For your information INSTANCE are tailor made for for those who hate been ganked or lose a boss becouse enemy is attack them inside.
Instance=savezone
So all who complain about open pvp will prolly not play DFO becouse its without instance no savezones:)
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
The reason looting is important is because it adds drama to the game. Today's mainstream MMORPGs are boring and lack any thrill what so ever. It's that fear of loss that makes the game thrilling and fun to play. In PVP, it also makes a guy think twice before initiating an attack on sombody or venturing into a dangerous area. The most fun times I've had in an MMORPG was in the ealry UO days when PVP was the norm. Anyone remember that feeling you used to get when approaching the enterance of a dungeon with your freinds, not knowing if a group of super hack macro juiced PVP gangsters were hiding just off the screen waiting to mash you and you're buddies down with 2 casts? Although I was on the recieving end of most of the PVP in those days, it was still fun.
I guess you can think of PVPers are online thrill junkies who want to get their fix online instead of base jumping, big game hunting, or some other extreme sport. It's not for everyone but there are a lot of us out there. SO SOMBODY MAKE A FREAKING GAME ALREADY!!!!!
I had a lot of fun when UO came out, but the PKing was my least favorite part and why I left to play EQ. It's too much of a time sink to earn equipment and then constantly lose it to a group of players waiting around to gank you.
Thats why they make DFO its hardcore only so all who have nerf to play DFO will be real hardcore pvp community.
And why full loot ?,why not?
DFO is not like some other games purely concentrade on grinding for months for that one epic item set, dfo is build around PVP not other way around pve.
Nobody force anybody to go play DFO so if you gonne play it you know is open pvp no save zones and risk losing your items in pvp.
All of you who want save pvp can play so many other mmo ,we hardcore want a game like DFO to play our style simple:)
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
WW2online = total PvP MMO.
No hiding in neutral areas.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Then why is there so many people playing Lineage 2 ?
Its the second largest MMO next to WoW afaik let me fix that. It won't draw a big crowd in NA or Europe.
The reason looting is important is because it adds drama to the game. Today's mainstream MMORPGs are boring and lack any thrill what so ever. It's that fear of loss that makes the game thrilling and fun to play. In PVP, it also makes a guy think twice before initiating an attack on sombody or venturing into a dangerous area. The most fun times I've had in an MMORPG was in the ealry UO days when PVP was the norm. Anyone remember that feeling you used to get when approaching the enterance of a dungeon with your freinds, not knowing if a group of super hack macro juiced PVP gangsters were hiding just off the screen waiting to mash you and you're buddies down with 2 casts? Although I was on the recieving end of most of the PVP in those days, it was still fun.
I guess you can think of PVPers are online thrill junkies who want to get their fix online instead of base jumping, big game hunting, or some other extreme sport. It's not for everyone but there are a lot of us out there. SO SOMBODY MAKE A FREAKING GAME ALREADY!!!!!
I had a lot of fun when UO came out, but the PKing was my least favorite part and why I left to play EQ. It's too much of a time sink to earn equipment and then constantly lose it to a group of players waiting around to gank you.
Thats why they make DFO its hardcore only so all who have nerf to play DFO will be real hardcore pvp community.
And why full loot ?,why not?
DFO is not like some other games purely concentrade on grinding for months for that one epic item set, dfo is build around PVP not other way around pve.
Nobody force anybody to go play DFO so if you gonne play it you know is open pvp no save zones and risk losing your items in pvp.
All of you who want save pvp can play so many other mmo ,we hardcore want a game like DFO to play our style simple:)
Thats fine with me. I hope they make a game you enjoy. I'm not sure why you call yourself hardcore though. Just because people don't want to wast their time and effort only to get ganked and have it taken away in a few seconds doesn't make them less hardcore. If you find some kind of stimulation out of that then thats cool. I don't really find that stimulation or excitment. I just find frustration.UBI was so burnt after the Shadowbane thing they only put thier greesy fingers on a sure fire deals like Ps2 titles. Major development studios who worked on these Shadowbane era games dried up.
The closest America will get to Open PVP , are Korean games. Korean games defined the PVP genre for ages.
Take this for an example, let's say you play WoW for a few months and slowly replace your gear as you progress, replacing gear on a weekly basis and sometimes daily. If you compare this to a Open PvP game that has no looting retrictions, is it that much different? you will be replacing gear no matter if you win or lose.
Do most NA/Euro players enjoy being carebears who want everything handed to them on a silver platter?
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Do not hate it, but instead embrace the diversity.
Take this for an example, let's say you play WoW for a few months and slowly replace your gear as you progress, replacing gear on a weekly basis and sometimes daily. If you compare this to a Open PvP game that has no looting retrictions, is it that much different? you will be replacing gear no matter if you win or lose.
Do most NA/Euro players enjoy being carebears who want everything handed to them on a silver platter?
I don't believe that is a very good comparison because when you lose your equipment you are starting over. When you are upgrading you are replacing gear over time, but you never have to go back and get the old gear in order to advance and get the new gear. In general you need the old gear in order to be tuff enough to fight the mobs/do the quests to get the new gear. In PvP you just group up and gank people and you have easy gear. Not much fun there for those who don't care much for PvP. As for the silver platter part I do enjoy when the game is fun which usually means not wasting tuns of time which loot PvP usually has. They have a message on Granada Espada don't play the game to long and take breaks. Me thinks people in Korea/Asia just take games to an unhealthy level.
Take this for an example, let's say you play WoW for a few months and slowly replace your gear as you progress, replacing gear on a weekly basis and sometimes daily. If you compare this to a Open PvP game that has no looting retrictions, is it that much different? you will be replacing gear no matter if you win or lose.
Do most NA/Euro players enjoy being carebears who want everything handed to them on a silver platter?
I don't believe that is a very good comparison because when you lose your equipment you are starting over. When you are upgrading you are replacing gear over time, but you never have to go back and get the old gear in order to advance and get the new gear. In general you need the old gear in order to be tuff enough to fight the mobs/do the quests to get the new gear. In PvP you just group up and gank people and you have easy gear. Not much fun there for those who don't care much for PvP. As for the silver platter part I do enjoy when the game is fun which usually means not wasting tuns of time which loot PvP usually has. They have a message on Granada Espada don't play the game to long and take breaks. Me thinks people in Korea/Asia just take games to an unhealthy level.
Yet their MMO's are better? =p
Experience = ??
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Do not hate it, but instead embrace the diversity.
The fact that someone doesn't like a particular game style doesn't mean that they're "scared" of it. It's pretty telling that the hardcore crowd so often resorts to bullying responses in discussions about game styles; full-loot PVP is not about PVP combat, but in being able to bully people with the threat of taking all their character's stuff.
It's amusing to me that the hardcore crowd whines that people don't join their game to be easy targets, but also accuses other people of wanting things handed to them on a silver platter. It's almost as funny as the fact that the 'hardcore' crowd claim to be PVPers, but want a combat system that requires people to put in more time PVEing for gear than actually engaging in PVP fights (like EVE); real PVPers would rather the game be about PVP combat than about PVE grinding to replace losses.
www.ageofconan.com
Doesn't seem like a dead idea.
Darkfall has been 'coming soon' since like 2003, I first saw the 'beta soon' stuff in 2005 IIRC. AOC is not an open PVP game (PVP only occurs in certain areas) and does not qualify as 'hardcore' since you don't take people's stuff on death (there's some limited item you can loot). When your way of showing that these games are not dead is to list one game that certainly isn't currently alive (not playable game = not alive) and one that's absolutely not 'hardcore open PVP', it's kind of telling.