The visual style of this game will be a sufficient draw to ensure it has it's niche in the North American market, maybe not a large one but at least something. Good graphics does not mean a good artistic style, and I must say I am disgusted by the avatar's appearance in so many upcoming MMOs. The different directional and area attacks and the fact that you control a whole party to position those attacks will add an extra element of planning that might be fun at first, but I'm guessing it will get old like all game mechanics eventually do. The only thing I've read here that would discourage me not to at least try this game would be the comments about the crooked management of this company.
GE is generally following Asian MMO model - little variety in terms of content , which means theres lots of grinding involved. Pretty graphics and great music adds some charm to it, but I doubt anyone is playing an MMO for the sake of graphics or music alone. Gameplay is very limited and linear. GE may be popular in the East (I dont have the numbers so I say may be) but I highly doubt it will break any record in NA. If anything, it will be a niche game with Vanguard population levels (10-20K pop max) after release pop spike.
Granado Espada / Sword of the New World or whatever it's name is, I do not believe it will be a major hit in North America. It may have some success, of course people will play this game just like any other new MMORPG. Even if the game sucks, people will still play it. Back to the point, there is no way GE will knock out the top dogs such as WoW and Warhammer Online. Besides, once Gods and Heroes comes out, this is the game everyone better watch out for!
Even if this game sucks I think it will make $$$. I know some players who spend hundreds of dollars a month on virtual items. Aren't the Asian MMO's making more $$$ in total than American MMO's? Is this the reason why Acclaim and now NCsoft have introduced f2p MMO's?
Stop the madness. This game will affect AoC and WAR about as much as Hello Kitty. This game doesn't even come close to targeting the same audience that will be look at those 2 games.
Stop the madness. This game will affect AoC and WAR about as much as Hello Kitty. This game doesn't even come close to targeting the same audience that will be look at those 2 games.
Ok, i give the landscapes a 8+, but oh my god that combat.... if i'd have to play that kind of game for more than 15minutes id be friggin outta my mind.
"watch out AoC and WAR" <-- there is nothing correct in this claim.. this game has NOTHING on those 2, sorry to burst your bubble, but it doesn't!
the only asian style mmo that will stand up to aoc is aion. reason being it wont have the hellish asian grind that the others do and the pvp will be something to look out for
Ah man....not another Korean MMO! What is up with these asian developers thinking that they can compete with the likes of WOW, AOC, LOTRO, COH, GW, etc? Grinding doesn't work in america like how it does in asia!
That is a very small part of it. The most common stated reasons in my experience are simplistic and/or highly repetitive graphics, lack of customization of any kind, and heavy amounts of xp and cash grind.
HMMM that sounds just like every other MMO on the market! Not much of a difference really.
Besides this game reminds me of the Console Final Fantasy Series and if you have never played those games then you won't get it.
"Hey look, there's a bunch of people playing FREE TO PLAY Asian MMO's!" ergo, Asian MMO's are more popular than AAA NA titles.
Edit: I thought it telling that Gameloading felt it necessary to use year old pics of WAR from before all the shaders, lighting and so on were in the game. Afraid that using more recent pics of the game might not prove your point much? Nevermind that the one actual ingame GE pic doesn't look all that hot.
I really think you guys are overhyping AoC and WAR. You have got to be kidding me if it will be a content rich beautiful game that runs on a large variety of machines with a 26 million US budget.
Problems with AoC at the current moment.
Just started Technical Beta Testing. If they release the game before year lets out then you know its gonna be bug ridden. With Twitch Combat, Building Structures, and having Siege type battles has the potential of alot of bugs.
Instance based. I like Guild Wars, but many people diss it because its primarily instanced based with lobbies. AoC is going to use the same model.
System specs through the roof. With such dense foliage, twitch combat calculations, mounted combat, and stunning visuals. The game is going to require alot of system resources.
Low amount of content. This is the result of a relatively short development time while also having lush environments that take longer to create. This means they won't magically have alot of areas or content at the beginning.
Potential problems with WAR. Short development time. The shorter the time the less refined a game is. System specs also high. If you look at the fluid animation of the characters it should be evident why with the dense meshes for an MMO that will be hosting hundreds if not thousands of moderately customized characters on the same map. Just a re-hash of DAOC without the PvE elements. Testing hasn't even started also meaning a release this year means bugged client, rocky launch.
The biggest problem is your not even looking at the features before passing judgement on Granado Espada, while I am sure some of you guys slamming Korean MMOs know every feature even ones not announced in AoC and WAR. GE has territorial conquest; unique factions system /including a political system; multiple mass PVP type gameplay options. Also through the course of the game you gather several costume variations that end up being customization. With this the case you end up with more customization the AoC and WAR will have at end-game. This is because the equipment doesn't affect your look. Its the dozens of costumes you collected. So just because everyone is using the same plate armor for power; they can look completely different. Ontop of all this the game runs smoothly on crappy systems, and the stance system allows you to gain many skills that you can alter on various situations.
On the latter AoC and WAR are pretty much shallow games with a generic class system in rehashed PVP gameplay offering the same things that games before them have offered with the exception AoC has twitch combat.
I really think you guys are overhyping AoC and WAR. You have got to be kidding me if it will be a content rich beautiful game that runs on a large variety of machines with a 26 million US budget. Problems with AoC at the current moment.
Just started Technical Beta Testing. If they release the game before year lets out then you know its gonna be bug ridden. With Twitch Combat, Building Structures, and having Siege type battles has the potential of alot of bugs. Instance based. I like Guild Wars, but many people diss it because its primarily instanced based with lobbies. AoC is going to use the same model. System specs through the roof. With such dense foliage, twitch combat calculations, mounted combat, and stunning visuals. The game is going to require alot of system resources. Low amount of content. This is the result of a relatively short development time while also having lush environments that take longer to create. This means they won't magically have alot of areas or content at the beginning.
Potential problems with WAR. Short development time. The shorter the time the less refined a game is. System specs also high. If you look at the fluid animation of the characters it should be evident why with the dense meshes for an MMO that will be hosting hundreds if not thousands of moderately customized characters on the same map. Just a re-hash of DAOC without the PvE elements. Testing hasn't even started also meaning a release this year means bugged client, rocky launch. The biggest problem is your not even looking at the features before passing judgement on Granado Espada, while I am sure some of you guys slamming Korean MMOs know every feature even ones not announced in AoC and WAR. GE has territorial conquest; unique factions system /including a political system; multiple mass PVP type gameplay options. Also through the course of the game you gather several costume variations that end up being customization. With this the case you end up with more customization the AoC and WAR will have at end-game. This is because the equipment doesn't affect your look. Its the dozens of costumes you collected. So just because everyone is using the same plate armor for power; they can look completely different. Ontop of all this the game runs smoothly on crappy systems, and the stance system allows you to gain many skills that you can alter on various situations. On the latter AoC and WAR are pretty much shallow games with a generic class system in rehashed PVP gameplay offering the same things that games before them have offered with the exception AoC has twitch combat.
This is all your opinion. I guess we will see when the game comes out. I tried to get into Granado Espada, but I couldn't do it. Perhaps it's just a matter of taste. This could happen with AoC or War, but I'll go with a pay to play game and see what happens. I have a feeling I will like those games better because 1 they use wasd movement, 2 they will have a good deal more quests, and 3 From what I've seen of War there will be some neat tweaks to questing.
I really think you guys are overhyping AoC and WAR. You have got to be kidding me if it will be a content rich beautiful game that runs on a large variety of machines with a 26 million US budget. Problems with AoC at the current moment.
Just started Technical Beta Testing. If they release the game before year lets out then you know its gonna be bug ridden. With Twitch Combat, Building Structures, and having Siege type battles has the potential of alot of bugs. Instance based. I like Guild Wars, but many people diss it because its primarily instanced based with lobbies. AoC is going to use the same model. System specs through the roof. With such dense foliage, twitch combat calculations, mounted combat, and stunning visuals. The game is going to require alot of system resources. Low amount of content. This is the result of a relatively short development time while also having lush environments that take longer to create. This means they won't magically have alot of areas or content at the beginning.
Potential problems with WAR. Short development time. The shorter the time the less refined a game is. System specs also high. If you look at the fluid animation of the characters it should be evident why with the dense meshes for an MMO that will be hosting hundreds if not thousands of moderately customized characters on the same map. Just a re-hash of DAOC without the PvE elements. Testing hasn't even started also meaning a release this year means bugged client, rocky launch. The biggest problem is your not even looking at the features before passing judgement on Granado Espada, while I am sure some of you guys slamming Korean MMOs know every feature even ones not announced in AoC and WAR. GE has territorial conquest; unique factions system /including a political system; multiple mass PVP type gameplay options. Also through the course of the game you gather several costume variations that end up being customization. With this the case you end up with more customization the AoC and WAR will have at end-game. This is because the equipment doesn't affect your look. Its the dozens of costumes you collected. So just because everyone is using the same plate armor for power; they can look completely different. Ontop of all this the game runs smoothly on crappy systems, and the stance system allows you to gain many skills that you can alter on various situations. On the latter AoC and WAR are pretty much shallow games with a generic class system in rehashed PVP gameplay offering the same things that games before them have offered with the exception AoC has twitch combat.
This is all your opinion. I guess we will see when the games comes out. I tried to get into Granado Espada, but I couldn't do it. Perhaps it's just a matter of taste. This could happen with AoC or War, but I'll go with a pay to play game and see what happens. I have a feeling I will like those games better because 1 they use wasd movement, 2 they will have a good deal more quests, and 3 From what I've seen of War there will be some neat tweaks to questing.
I will attempt to decipher what you just said... This game is going to be better than WAR and AoC.... Well, other than the fact that I can't name any MMORPG made by Koreans that does better in BOTH America and Korea... and that the controls in MMO's done by Koreans are practically unplayable... and that it's going to be a game pretty much dedicated to PvE and trying to go up against the two most anticipated MMORPG's that are dedicated to PvP... Other than those reasons... I think you are right </sarcasm>
Lineage 1 & 2. The most successful mmo behind wow. More users in US then any US made game aside from WoW. OMG its amazing how little you know, especially because Granado Espada has more meaningful PVP then AoC and WAR. Thank you! Finally somone who really knows MMO's and the history and facts behind them. No need to playa hate right away guys!
Complete and utter fabrication. L1 and L2 never were major players in the US.
Thank you for being smarter then these peoples... go out and ask even gamers what l1 or l2 is most don't even know.
that beign said i love how that vid was so sad... other then the fist like 3 sec the mobs NEVER MOVE rofl.
this beign said i always liked its combat type too a point ... i like its core but its rough.
"and EQ / EQ2 for example actually has taken elements from older Korean games like Ragnarok and Lineage and sort of ported them over" - you don't know your time line well.
I agree with Focus*Bankai that Aion may fight with AOC a bit but i doubt it will effect WAR at all.
CleffyII - "Just a re-hash of DAOC without the PvE elements." - i wish this was true because doac to date is the best mmo released.. still its not .. at all. "Testing hasn't even started also meaning a release this year means bugged client, rocky launch." - your not following as it doesn't mean to release this year i think q1 08 if not 2q.
"while I am sure some of you guys slamming Korean MMOs know every feature even ones not announced in AoC and WAR. ... With this the case you end up with more customization the AoC and WAR will have at end-game." - WRONG WRONG AND WRONG , daoc has more customization than GE does, and WAR looks to have more. Not just random outfitx but you can put a skull or spike or whatever on different place of your armor , the armor itself differing and the class customizations not even close go look at the most recent vids from gamesday ... GE has nothing on it ... nothing.
"So just because everyone is using the same plate armor for power; they can look completely different. " - Not only will WARs plate armor be different it will look different also and on top of that you can put different aestetic items ony uor character also... How is GE > WAR now?
So Cleffyll it is YOU who is misinformed you don't even know what AOC and WAR have to offer.
Still AOC and WAr may not deliver .... wait WAR shows us EVERYthing .. no major game has ever been as open with its community in the early and now later stages that WAR has ... this is not like many games what the developers are SAYing will happen its what many of us who took the time to look SEE happening. I have also been following AOC ... but the lack of info makes me feel ... uneasy i seen it before its what many co.s do if their game does not deliver well on their promises... still the parts they have shown look pretty good so i have hope.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
=_= Lineage II had over 400k US subscribers the first year of its release. I would have to wad through 200 pages of "news" on the NCSoft corporate site to dig up the specific numbers which I don't feel like doing.
Speculation on what a game will be like isn't a good argument on why it will be superior to another game. Sure developers can promise alot of stuff, but can they deliver. History has proven that the more a developer promises, the worse the game becomes. Who cares if you can put a nifty spike on your helmet, does it really add to customization the same way GE does? Here is my reasoning behind why GE infact has alot of end-game customization which ultimetly is what makes the customization in-game since only nit-pickers are completely turned off from a game from no-early game customization.
Does having 500 facial sliders really make your character unique? This is how some people seem to want to define character customization, yet the face is such a small portion of the body. Whenever a person comes running by will you stare at thier face and look for how they adjusted thier Nasal Bridge Width slider? Or will you destinguish them by thier skin color, general proportions (girth, tonality), hair, and the armor they are wearing? This is were many games fall short on customization. No one is going to notice all those facial customization, but at the end of the game everyone is going to notice that every single warrior is wearing the Heroic Plate Set. When you put it on these terms, Blizzard only offer 3 customization options for their top tier sets. This is also the same setup AoC and WAR will have w/ the exception of those spikes that don't really seem all that special. On the other hand GE offers dozens of costume options that completely replace your look. They can also be implemented end-game, mid-game, or the beginning in K2's version.
Another issue that this solves for GE is that each costume is finely painted giving it a great graphical effect. Due to the nature of many western games, they have to create hundreds of thousands of textures that are then intermixed. This leads to higher system specs, mismatching armor, and less definition within a piece. One key feature of GE is the sheer amount of people on screen at a time. With so many people on the map, you cannot bog down a system and use excess bandwidth by passing large floats of character customization data.
Lastly, is the tactics issue. GE has a good many tactics that can be used based on the nature of its key feature MCC, as well as the accompaning system that makes it easier to use. You can stick 2 nukers in hold mode, then have your scout rush into a monster infested area luring a mob then train them all with ease as your characters auto-target. In WAR your going to be forced to click per monster, your also gonna end up clicking more then GE as a result. AoC has a nice twitch system, but its mainly hack and slash. This system allows for more RTS type gameplay which is why they went with Point and Click.
Really GE offers a unique gameplay experience, and introduces alot of new and refined elements to gameplay like the political system and taking over territories. In addition to this, its easy to add content to the game which has been shown by updates adding in 3 times the amount of content as the original game in 2.0 and 2.1; as well as offering new features that have not been done in a game thus far like the mercenary and election systems.
Originally posted by CleffyII Granado Espada is the greatest mmo ever made to date. Waiting to play: Ragnarok Online 2, and Age of Conan. Finally they are shooting for finished, action-paced games.
If Granola Espanola is the greatest MMO ever made, why would you be looking forward to playing any other games, including one which you claim is shallow, and will be bug ridden, lacking content, have overly high system specs? Even though all the bullet points you made up about AoC are the exact same conjecture you accuse those saying Granola Espanola won't be so good of doing.
Because its been released and I could play it. Its alot funner and different then other MMOs currently playable on the market which makes it the best for me. The reason I am looking forward to Ragnarok 2 is the sheer amount of customization and gameplay features in it. The reason I am looking forward to Age of Conan is because it offers something different despite how shallow I may percieve it to be, and I just want to play something different instead of a rehash of the same old crap I got tired of 6 years ago. My experience in MMOs tells me it will have problems, but still doesn't mean I don't want to give it a try.
I think thats the problem with many people's arguments. They just don't want to give the game a chance because its korean. However, I want to be fair to this game because it is fun if you play it for what it is and probably the funnest mmo I have played so I want other people to give it a chance.
i was just wondering why everyone hates asian mmo'swith their grindfest?....EVERY GAME is a grind its just what you wanna choose how to put your time into it, im unbiased towards asian or american games, if they can make me feel like im attached to the game then it doesnt matter at all...but still WoW (i used to play it) owns all other mmos WAR or AoC i can gaurantee that theres no other game that can get as much subscriptions as WoW nuff said...
Originally posted by CleffyII =_= Lineage II had over 400k US subscribers the first year of its release. I would have to wad through 200 pages of "news" on the NCSoft corporate site to dig up the specific numbers which I don't feel like doing.
Unfortunately a major drawback of this game is the built in "i can leave my computer for hours, come back, and gain a couple levels" in it that will hurt the community. Half the time I tested this game (both versions) more people spent more time letting their characters auto level than actually at the computer.
Comments
The visual style of this game will be a sufficient draw to ensure it has it's niche in the North American market, maybe not a large one but at least something. Good graphics does not mean a good artistic style, and I must say I am disgusted by the avatar's appearance in so many upcoming MMOs. The different directional and area attacks and the fact that you control a whole party to position those attacks will add an extra element of planning that might be fun at first, but I'm guessing it will get old like all game mechanics eventually do. The only thing I've read here that would discourage me not to at least try this game would be the comments about the crooked management of this company.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
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"watch out AoC and WAR" <-- there is nothing correct in this claim.. this game has NOTHING on those 2, sorry to burst your bubble, but it doesn't!
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Besides this game reminds me of the Console Final Fantasy Series and if you have never played those games then you won't get it.
Flawed logic ftw.
"Hey look, there's a bunch of people playing FREE TO PLAY Asian MMO's!" ergo, Asian MMO's are more popular than AAA NA titles.
Edit: I thought it telling that Gameloading felt it necessary to use year old pics of WAR from before all the shaders, lighting and so on were in the game. Afraid that using more recent pics of the game might not prove your point much? Nevermind that the one actual ingame GE pic doesn't look all that hot.
I really think you guys are overhyping AoC and WAR. You have got to be kidding me if it will be a content rich beautiful game that runs on a large variety of machines with a 26 million US budget.
Problems with AoC at the current moment.
Potential problems with WAR. Short development time. The shorter the time the less refined a game is. System specs also high. If you look at the fluid animation of the characters it should be evident why with the dense meshes for an MMO that will be hosting hundreds if not thousands of moderately customized characters on the same map. Just a re-hash of DAOC without the PvE elements. Testing hasn't even started also meaning a release this year means bugged client, rocky launch.
The biggest problem is your not even looking at the features before passing judgement on Granado Espada, while I am sure some of you guys slamming Korean MMOs know every feature even ones not announced in AoC and WAR. GE has territorial conquest; unique factions system /including a political system; multiple mass PVP type gameplay options. Also through the course of the game you gather several costume variations that end up being customization. With this the case you end up with more customization the AoC and WAR will have at end-game. This is because the equipment doesn't affect your look. Its the dozens of costumes you collected. So just because everyone is using the same plate armor for power; they can look completely different. Ontop of all this the game runs smoothly on crappy systems, and the stance system allows you to gain many skills that you can alter on various situations.
On the latter AoC and WAR are pretty much shallow games with a generic class system in rehashed PVP gameplay offering the same things that games before them have offered with the exception AoC has twitch combat.
Lineage 1 & 2. The most successful mmo behind wow. More users in US then any US made game aside from WoW. OMG its amazing how little you know, especially because Granado Espada has more meaningful PVP then AoC and WAR.
Thank you! Finally somone who really knows MMO's and the history and facts behind them. No need to playa hate right away guys!
Complete and utter fabrication. L1 and L2 never were major players in the US.
Thank you for being smarter then these peoples... go out and ask even gamers what l1 or l2 is most don't even know.that beign said i love how that vid was so sad... other then the fist like 3 sec the mobs NEVER MOVE rofl.
this beign said i always liked its combat type too a point ... i like its core but its rough.
"and EQ / EQ2 for example actually has taken elements from older Korean games like Ragnarok and Lineage and sort of ported them over" - you don't know your time line well.
I agree with Focus*Bankai that Aion may fight with AOC a bit but i doubt it will effect WAR at all.
CleffyII - "Just a re-hash of DAOC without the PvE elements." - i wish this was true because doac to date is the best mmo released.. still its not .. at all. "Testing hasn't even started also meaning a release this year means bugged client, rocky launch." - your not following as it doesn't mean to release this year i think q1 08 if not 2q.
"while I am sure some of you guys slamming Korean MMOs know every feature even ones not announced in AoC and WAR. ... With this the case you end up with more customization the AoC and WAR will have at end-game." - WRONG WRONG AND WRONG , daoc has more customization than GE does, and WAR looks to have more. Not just random outfitx but you can put a skull or spike or whatever on different place of your armor , the armor itself differing and the class customizations not even close go look at the most recent vids from gamesday ... GE has nothing on it ... nothing.
"So just because everyone is using the same plate armor for power; they can look completely different. " - Not only will WARs plate armor be different it will look different also and on top of that you can put different aestetic items ony uor character also... How is GE > WAR now?
So Cleffyll it is YOU who is misinformed you don't even know what AOC and WAR have to offer.
Still AOC and WAr may not deliver .... wait WAR shows us EVERYthing .. no major game has ever been as open with its community in the early and now later stages that WAR has ... this is not like many games what the developers are SAYing will happen its what many of us who took the time to look SEE happening. I have also been following AOC ... but the lack of info makes me feel ... uneasy i seen it before its what many co.s do if their game does not deliver well on their promises... still the parts they have shown look pretty good so i have hope.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
=_= Lineage II had over 400k US subscribers the first year of its release. I would have to wad through 200 pages of "news" on the NCSoft corporate site to dig up the specific numbers which I don't feel like doing.
Speculation on what a game will be like isn't a good argument on why it will be superior to another game. Sure developers can promise alot of stuff, but can they deliver. History has proven that the more a developer promises, the worse the game becomes. Who cares if you can put a nifty spike on your helmet, does it really add to customization the same way GE does? Here is my reasoning behind why GE infact has alot of end-game customization which ultimetly is what makes the customization in-game since only nit-pickers are completely turned off from a game from no-early game customization.
Does having 500 facial sliders really make your character unique? This is how some people seem to want to define character customization, yet the face is such a small portion of the body. Whenever a person comes running by will you stare at thier face and look for how they adjusted thier Nasal Bridge Width slider? Or will you destinguish them by thier skin color, general proportions (girth, tonality), hair, and the armor they are wearing? This is were many games fall short on customization. No one is going to notice all those facial customization, but at the end of the game everyone is going to notice that every single warrior is wearing the Heroic Plate Set. When you put it on these terms, Blizzard only offer 3 customization options for their top tier sets. This is also the same setup AoC and WAR will have w/ the exception of those spikes that don't really seem all that special. On the other hand GE offers dozens of costume options that completely replace your look. They can also be implemented end-game, mid-game, or the beginning in K2's version.
Another issue that this solves for GE is that each costume is finely painted giving it a great graphical effect. Due to the nature of many western games, they have to create hundreds of thousands of textures that are then intermixed. This leads to higher system specs, mismatching armor, and less definition within a piece. One key feature of GE is the sheer amount of people on screen at a time. With so many people on the map, you cannot bog down a system and use excess bandwidth by passing large floats of character customization data.
Lastly, is the tactics issue. GE has a good many tactics that can be used based on the nature of its key feature MCC, as well as the accompaning system that makes it easier to use. You can stick 2 nukers in hold mode, then have your scout rush into a monster infested area luring a mob then train them all with ease as your characters auto-target. In WAR your going to be forced to click per monster, your also gonna end up clicking more then GE as a result. AoC has a nice twitch system, but its mainly hack and slash. This system allows for more RTS type gameplay which is why they went with Point and Click.
Really GE offers a unique gameplay experience, and introduces alot of new and refined elements to gameplay like the political system and taking over territories. In addition to this, its easy to add content to the game which has been shown by updates adding in 3 times the amount of content as the original game in 2.0 and 2.1; as well as offering new features that have not been done in a game thus far like the mercenary and election systems.
If Granola Espanola is the greatest MMO ever made, why would you be looking forward to playing any other games, including one which you claim is shallow, and will be bug ridden, lacking content, have overly high system specs? Even though all the bullet points you made up about AoC are the exact same conjecture you accuse those saying Granola Espanola won't be so good of doing.
Because its been released and I could play it. Its alot funner and different then other MMOs currently playable on the market which makes it the best for me. The reason I am looking forward to Ragnarok 2 is the sheer amount of customization and gameplay features in it. The reason I am looking forward to Age of Conan is because it offers something different despite how shallow I may percieve it to be, and I just want to play something different instead of a rehash of the same old crap I got tired of 6 years ago. My experience in MMOs tells me it will have problems, but still doesn't mean I don't want to give it a try.
I think thats the problem with many people's arguments. They just don't want to give the game a chance because its korean. However, I want to be fair to this game because it is fun if you play it for what it is and probably the funnest mmo I have played so I want other people to give it a chance.
Here, I'll make it easy for you.
http://www.ncsoft.com/eng/nccompany/ir_data_report04.asp
In case you're wondering, that's NCSofts financial reports. They list sub numbers, concurrent logins, etc for all their games.
You sure you don't want to rethink your claim of 400K US subs for L2?