Diffrent people have diffrent learning habits, the whole a spanking is the ultimate answer is what messed me up as a kid. Taught me that violence is a great answer to any problem you had, wasnt till high school I finally figured out it wasnt. And besides, at 12 I was up till 3 am playing EQ and UO, and ya know what I did when I had to wake up at 6 to go to school? I woke up and went to school... not that hard
Of course some of my friends and judging by the replies some of the posters are great examples that some people do learn better by getting the shit knocked outta them. I just wasnt one of them.
I completely agree that each child is different and has different needs. Some children mearly need a tough look and stern tone. Some children have pshycological disorders and need professional help.
But Some children need to be physically corrected when they misbehave. As a parent it is your job to determine the best course of action with dealing with your own child.
Hey Mr. "canned response" ... QFT means quote for truth. Independend investigation isn't your strength, huh?
btw, scenes like those happen in many households endless times with endless topics, god, they are kids, what would you expect. Reason? from a 13 year old kid? ....
what if the child decides to take this further? What if the child decides to react to your direct use of power? Oh eeasymode, you can always say "but hey, I was fair"... Well, what if fair isn't the reasonable thing to be? What if you don't know your child good enough? What if this situation is YOUR mistake? What if your child runs away? What if it decides to steal from you and stops respecting you (and I don't mean fear)?
Oh yea, suuure, no question, authority-parents raise disciplined kids. But they tend to move out early and move away, a scientifically proven fact. They tend to keep a emotional distance to their parents throughout their lives. They are known to have problems expressing either their actual will or to compromise.
Raising children is about mistakes and learning, not about rule and punishment. You are the guide of your kid, not the master. Even an eight year old has his or her own will, implementing it into something that everyone can live with is the key here.
And YES, disciplined and regular people come out of those families. Great, but discipline and regularity is not all that counts, although modern society wants you to believe this.
Meridion
P.S: Oh yea, and what is punishment? I reckon this to be a totally US phenomenom, in my time in the US I found this a way of raising kids in almost every household I got to know. Like not using a PC for x weeks? What would you do if that happened to you. I'm 26, and I know I would grow cold hate towards the one that decided to set his way of life over mine. Do you think children are ANY different from this?
what if the child decides to take this further? What if the child decides to react to your direct use of power? Oh eeasymode, you can always say "but hey, I was fair"... Well, what if fair isn't the reasonable thing to be? What if you don't know your child good enough? What if this situation is YOUR mistake? What if your child runs away? What if it decides to steal from you and stops respecting you (and I don't mean fear)?
Oh yea, suuure, no question, authority-parents raise disciplined kids. But they tend to move out early and move away, a scientifically proven fact. They tend to keep a emotional distance to their parents throughout their lives. They are known to have problems expressing either their actual will or to compromise.
Raising children is about mistakes and learning, not about rule and punishment. You are the guide of your kid, not the master. Even an eight year old has his or her own will, implementing it into something that everyone can live with is the key here.
And YES, disciplined and regular people come out of those families. Great, but discipline and regularity is not all that counts, although modern society wants you to believe this.
Meridion
i 100% completely agree. I took a child studies class back when and it is proven. but am i the only one here that see's something wrong with a Male possiabley highschool student crying and acting like a pre-maddona to get his way the issue. Things like this can be more then just parenting. it can be a phisical or chemical issue.
what i was hearing with the parents was good. they were trying to take chage of the problem. maybe they didn't do it the right way? who knows. but that doesn't mean they are bad parents or anything. The kid has some emotional issues badly to be that age and crying to his parents about a video game to get what he wants.
That being said I still think the kid needs some balls. and he needs to man up. Become a man. if it was my kid and he was that age and started crying over a video game like that, i would probley take him to the gym and get him some boxing or juditsu classes or something. Toughen him up. make him less of a.... wimp (for the lack of a better word i can't say here )
Well, there has been many good post on parenting, some of which I think are garbage and others that have made me think.....But as I do not come to this site to discuss parenting, so I will take my leave of this thread. However before I go... For all the people that think they are experts... remember that real life and books are very different. Every child is different.. and I do agree that spanking is not as effective a method of discipline, occasionally it is a method that works.... when used rarely. Natural consequences are far better. I have not spanked my child in years... I agree that is can distance your child from you. I was spanked as a child... in fact I would say abused more likely. I chose to break that cycle and have chosen to speak with my children more often than not..... While this works with my oldest my youngest is very skilled at tuning myself and my wife out. Instead I lead by example and enforce realistic discipline measures, things that would be consequences as an adult.
So far in this thread people have judged others with very little information, perhaps we should look and ask yourself... Have you walked a mile in there shoes? Until you do, or you know them personally, you should not judge. Words sometimes do not convey the idea you believe they do... and sometime you do not take the same thing from the written word as someone else.
what if the child decides to take this further? What if the child decides to react to your direct use of power? Oh eeasymode, you can always say "but hey, I was fair"... Well, what if fair isn't the reasonable thing to be? What if you don't know your child good enough? What if this situation is YOUR mistake? What if your child runs away? What if it decides to steal from you and stops respecting you (and I don't mean fear)?
This guy sounds intelligent, relatively well adjusted, if a little bit angry. The problem is he is just offering criticizm of the inherrently imperfect system of parenting, and not really offering any alternative suggestions.
Oh yea, suuure, no question, authority-parents raise disciplined kids. But they tend to move out early and move away, a scientifically proven fact. They tend to keep a emotional distance to their parents throughout their lives. They are known to have problems expressing either their actual will or to compromise.
An interesting arguement. Personally I think it's a load of malarky. Please sight references to this 'scientifically proven fact'.
Raising children is about mistakes and learning, not about rule and punishment. You are the guide of your kid, not the master. Even an eight year old has his or her own will, implementing it into something that everyone can live with is the key here.
And YES, disciplined and regular people come out of those families. Great, but discipline and regularity is not all that counts, although modern society wants you to believe this.
Again interesting points, but bogged down by emotional language and posturing. And who is this big bag 'modern society' anyway. Their aren't twelve guys in a room some where brainstorming on how to suck the fun and meaning out of every person on the planets lives.
P.S: Oh yea, and what is punishment? I reckon this to be a totally US phenomenom, in my time in the US I found this a way of raising kids in almost every household I got to know. Like not using a PC for x weeks? What would you do if that happened to you. I'm 26, and I know I would grow cold hate towards the one that decided to set his way of life over mine. Do you think children are ANY different from this?
There are too many people like this. They see inequity, and are upset by it, but can't see through their own anger and frustration over the issue towards offering solutions. It's a shame, people like this have something to offer, even though they thems don't often times know what it is.
He was asking so nice to play and said please and the mom is just being way to strict and harsh.
That's sarcastic, right?
Well yes and no.
Do you think the mom has any idea how hard it is to set up a 25 man and how long it takes to get it organized and stuff?
He said he never has done it before and he was all excited and the mom must be having pms or that new pmm,
because she was not showing any love or understanding at all.She wasn't even trying to compromise .
Maybe if she let him play a bit more he would listen to her once in a while,instead of demanding he do what he is told all the time.
Sometimes parents need to be understanding and see what maybe important to their child instead of trying to teach them a lesson.
I think the mom needs to watch a few episodes of Shalom in The Home or something.
Um dude you most definately are not a parent! Your views hopefully will change if or when you have kids! Had I ever whined like that to my parents:
A: The plug would have been pulled on the comp!
B: Then I prolly would have gotten clobbered!
C: I would have my sub cancelled after all of the above if it had happened more than 2 times!
Why should mom care about how long it takes to set up a 25 man raid! She asked for something to be done or what ever! He needs to bow out and say he's gotta bail cause something came up! That is called respect for your parents! Oh BTW I couldn't listen to the whole clip cause my ears almost started bleeding from the whining and I wanted to smack him up side the head for them!
Yep there were major discipline issues in the house hold.
#1 the parents spent forever arguing with him. The kid knew he had to be up early, and yet planned to go on a raid knowing that... not the parents fault... stupid kid. The kid threw a fit witch usually means he does that when he doesnt get what he wants and has gotten what he wanted in the past doing so. Kid will continue to do so untill a line is drawn.
#2 Kid has little respect for parents as after he finally got off, he snuck back down and logged in again. Meaning he is either unafraid of his parents giving him consequences or he just doesnt care.
Kids need firm ground rules, and being a parent isnt a democracy.... yes you listen to your kids and try to find out whats important to them, but what a kid thinks is important isnt always whats best for them.
Wholeheartedly agree! Just because a parent is firm doesn't mean in the slightest that they don't care or love thier child! As a matter of fact it is quite the opposite!
I made one assumption: that you were not heavily educated. As a professor of linguistics, however, this is less an assumption and more an educated guess based on a great deal of experience. I won’t claim you are lying because that would be arrogant of me, but I will say I am taking it with a grain of salt. Places like this are great for studying how the average person presents themselves through their words in a free setting. When I read essays, I can that the writers feel unable to express themselves freely. Here, people can say whatever they would like to, in whatever way comes naturally to them. That is one reason I spend so much time on forums such as this one; I am exposing myself to natural language. Even so, I have become able to judge a lot about a person’s character from their writing. You might say that the way in which you write on a forum is not representative of anything about you, but many people besides myself assert the obvious when a poster is clearly a child and is writing about things they cannot understand. It follows logically that if you can gauge a person’s age via their way of expressing themselves that you can gauge other things as well.
I maintain that you are a terrible parent. Kicking a child out when they have no other place to go is just wrong, even if they are twenty; it would be just as wrong if they were fifty. If you love someone you do not put them out on the streets. There is no excuse for taking that action.
What really bothers me, however, is that you feel that at twenty years old, WoW has had a greater impact on his development than you have had. You say that he was a good kid until he started playing WoW. It sounds to me like there was a lack of discipline in the house that became a problem when an addiction manifested itself. The same problem could have manifested itself in the form of alcohol or other drugs, sex, or any number of other things that can be addictive when no self-control is exercised.
What you did to deserve this was refraining from teaching your son self-control when he was young enough that he would have respected you enough to practice it, and/or refraining from fostering a respect for you in him such that he would listen to you when you came to him with this concern, and/or being rude about the WoW addiction and not treating him like a rational human being. Any or all of those things could be the problem, but the fact remains that as a child he was your responsibility. If he were much older I could see how he could have changed and that this is not your fault, but at twenty years of age the effects of his upbringing are readily apparent in his actions. I am sorry if you cannot see this, but this is as cool and logical as I can be about this. I was raised very poorly and it took me many years to get over it. As a result, I spend a great deal of my time trying to educate people about raising children. I just hope one person on these forums can learn from your mistakes, and that one child will be raised a more stable and happy person as a result.
Also, that last thing you said is asinine and trite. I lose a great deal of respect for people when they say it. I don’t think that matters much to you, given our relationship (or rather, general lack thereof) but perhaps you might refrain from being so rude. You might say I am making arrogant assumptions, but I am objective and polite in my speech. Presentation goes a long way.
Normally I wouldn't get involved in a discussion like this but I just couldn't sit idly by without commenting. You assumed he was uneducated AND that he was a bad parent. You seem pretty pompous and more than willing to toss blame when you clearly don't know the entire story. How could you know anything? You don't know these people. You haven't lived in his house and witnessed the issues with his son. It's easy to sit back and lay blame on others. That's what is wrong with society today. Nobody takes responsibility and nobody is held accountable for their own actions anymore. Spilled HOT coffee in your own lap? Aw, it's the restaurant's fault! Sue em! Have anger issues and killed a guy? Aw, it's clearly your parent's fault. Here go do some counseling and forgive yourself. Just blame everyone BUT yourself for your actions. Go on. It's OK. You're a good person. Really.
It sounds to me like Infrared has done a lot more, and given many more chances than many parents would have done for their kids. And given that he has other young children in the house to look after I think he did the right thing. Unfortunately the world isn't a perfect place, which you should know full well as a professor, and kids won't always turn out perfect nor will they turn out the same in adulthood after being raised under the same roof with the same rules and guidelines.
My family is a perfect example: 3 siblings all raised the exact same way. I turned out OK. I have an education, nice house, wife, kids, good paying job, etc. I grew up receiving spankings when I did something wrong. Spankings, not beatings - they always talked to us after a spanking to ensure that we knew why we were disciplined and why we shouldn't do "that" again - lesson learned and noted. I respect my parents for the values and morals they instilled in me as a child and on into adulthood. To this day I want nothing more than to make my parents proud of me and for them to know that I love them. But my sister lies, cheats, steals, lives on Welfare, has physically hit my Mom and Dad on a number of occasions, has almost been to jail twice( my parents kept her out of it by covering for her) and has 5 kids by two different dads. She's stolen cash, credit cards, and written bad checks although she was never into drugs or alcohol. My parents have been dealing with her crap since she was about 13 and she is now 29. They've tried counseling, but that only works with willing participants and my sister was anything but willing. She didn't have a problem, my parents did - according to her. Despite all the pain and bad feelings they've taken her back into their house many times since she first got married into an abusive relationship, then again when she got divorced, only to be stolen from, lied to, and taken advantage of at every turn of kindness for their loving daughter. After years of this abuse they finally couldn't take it anymore and put her out of the house with the kids. I see them going through this every day as they still pay her bills because she can't afford them on her minimum wage job. My parents can't cut the strings now because of the 5 grandkids. It's a living nightmare for them and there is nothing any of us can do about it. My brother isn't as bad, from a moral standpoint, but he is still very self-absorbed and does what he wants regardless of the outcome to others.
It sounds to me like Infrared was at his last straw and needed to cut his own strings to force his son to grow up and man up. Don't judge him as a bad parent because his ADULT son made bad decisions with his own life. Family or not you shouldn't have to be forced to deal with that kind of behavior. And you can't force someone to get help if they don't recognize the problem. Ask any recovering addict that one and they'll tell you it's the truth. The ball is in his son's court now.
Kudos to you Infrared, I know it wasn't an easy choice.
Back to the main post. The kid was being a kid, but I personally would've nipped it in the butt a little sooner by pulling the plug. And he probably wouldn't be playing the game much after that. It sounds like there may have been a history of issues with him and the gaming time . He sounded like a good kid albeit a little on the whiny side. My 9 and 7 year old have their own computer and they turn it off when I say it's time to turn it off. They understand that if they don't do as I ask then they stand to lose their privileges for a week or so. And I don't have to spank them.
Haha what a little whining brat. He definitely sounds like he's in his mid-teens and if he is, how pathetic is that. 11 years ago my parents took away my car for 2 weeks, and I didnt whine about it half as bad as this kid. And that was a car! People need to stop babying their kids so much, hell there's no way my parents would have paid 15 bucks a month so that I could play a game online, let alone play it for a long time.
Hell back in my days my dad would ask me to go to bed at 10pm .. no 2nd warning.. If I am not in bed by 10:30 he'd be coming at me with a belt... I feel kids nowadays got so pampered and it's like the whole world owes them or something. Bad parenting FTL. The kid's parents in the audio are wayy more than understanding. The mother didn't even once raised her voice and the father was way understanding./Agree 100%
And to the kid who said he would run away from home, if I was that kids parents I would PRAY that he would!Seconded!
My dad never hit me, he never shouted at me, and oh, I've got a girl friend, I'm slim, I have friends and I'm about to finish my MD. When I was 13, my father and I played MIG-29 Fulcrum together and had great times, when I beat all my friends in street fighter after a 12 hour session my father said "god I'm so proud". When I was bad at school he said "comeon, I studied biology, lets team up and I'll help you with this"; when I wrecked my bike because I was a stupid idiot my father said "well, you don't have your bike anymore, that's enough punishment" - oh boy, and it was, my pride AND my bike. Failure itself is defeat enough.
If you break the will of your kids time and again, don't be suprised if they slap you in the face at the age of 30... or worse. I LOVE my father, he is successful, I am successful - and we were a team, right from the start. So just swallow your spanking bulls**t...
Meridion
That's a cool story. Seriously, I'm glad that technique worked out for you.
But that would not have worked for me one bit. I would have listened to that and taken advantage of it so quick. I needed spankings. It's the only time I ever listened to anyone when I was little. Notice I said "anyone", not just my parents. I didn't listen to teachers, principals, parents, doctors, police, etc. The only time I ever took anyone serious was when my dad spanked my ass. It's the only thing that got through my thick skull. And I'm glad he did it.
The alternative concept i HAVE to offer is "communication"... About solution, about how living together works, how democracy works, how hierarchy works, why it works and in what context it works.
Beating a child or enforcing punishment is a way to withdraw from your responsibility as a parent and shows nothing but stupidity in my eyes. FYI, here in Germany, if you beat a child, if you only slap it, this is criminal act. Every human being has the unalterable right of not being physically or psychically harmed. It's the law, but hey, who cares about the law anyways, right?
It's much easier to treat a child like a stupid dog, beat it and it won't do XY again. YAY
If you PM me I will tell you where I know this perfectly scientifically proven fact from. It's in my - unfortunately german - clinical psychiatrics book. You can look this up in any medical psychology book you want btw. I've been taught this in my first year at university TBH as one of the most basic sources of neurotic complexes affecting adults.
The situation in that sound byte was rather simple, and it escalated for no reason. Those parents can discuss it until they are blue in the face. The child only cares about finishing the raid. Thats it. Thats all he wants to do, and he will just try to convince them as long as he needs to, in order go back to playing. This has been my parenting experience. I have learned that some life lessons are only learned in retrospect. Only after the incident, only after the child has actually THOUGHT about what happened. When that light bulb goes off that says "You know... dad you were right. Because I went to bed early last night, I was able get up at 6am, and did awesome at my lacrosse game. I should of did that raid in WoW earlier so it could of ended before my bedtime." That is the moment you realize that you are doing a good job parenting. You actually taught your son something valuable about prioritizing. Of course, a parent may only hear this years later lol.
Further down the road in his life, children need to understand priorities. Real life takes precedence over video games. Getting up for school or work is more important than getting to lvl 70 in WoW. If we do not prepare a child for the harsh realities of life, we have no place in being parents. And we wind up with those children becoming the Paris Hiltons of tomorrow.
We can read all the psychiatry books, self help books, or parenting books that we want. It is only when we actually become a parent do we understand what it is really like. It is the most frustrating, infuriating, yet loving, and rewarding thing in life. I wouldn't give it up for the world. Nothing beats going home to a smiling youngen who only wants a hug and say "Hi Daddy!!".
"...and with that cryptic comment, I'm off to bed!"
The situation in that sound byte was rather simple, and it escalated for no reason. Those parents can discuss it until they are blue in the face. The child only cares about finishing the raid. Thats it. Thats all he wants to do, and he will just try to convince them as long as he needs to, in order go back to playing. This has been my parenting experience. I have learned that some life lessons are only learned in retrospect. Only after the incident, only after the child has actually THOUGHT about what happened. When that light bulb goes off that says "You know... dad you were right. Because I went to bed early last night, I was able get up at 6am, and did awesome at my lacrosse game. I should of did that raid in WoW earlier so it could of ended before my bedtime." That is the moment you realize that you are doing a good job parenting. You actually taught your son something valuable about prioritizing. Of course, a parent may only hear this years later lol.
Further down the road in his life, children need to understand priorities. Real life takes precedence over video games. Getting up for school or work is more important than getting to lvl 70 in WoW. If we do not prepare a child for the harsh realities of life, we have no place in being parents. And we wind up with those children becoming the Paris Hiltons of tomorrow.
We can read all the psychiatry books, self help books, or parenting books that we want. It is only when we actually become a parent do we understand what it is really like. It is the most frustrating, infuriating, yet loving, and rewarding thing in life. I wouldn't give it up for the world. Nothing beats going home to a smiling youngen who only wants a hug and say "Hi Daddy!!".
Exactly!
Nice to see someone who understands good old fashioned parenting.
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FYI, here in Germany, if you beat a child, if you only slap it, this is criminal act. Every human being has the unalterable right of not being physically or psychically harmed. It's the law, but hey, who cares about the law anyways, right?
i·ro·ny1 [ahy-ruh-nee, ahy-er-]
–noun, plural -nies.
1. the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend.
2. a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.
3. (esp. in contemporary writing) a manner of organizing a work so as to give full expression to contradictory or complementary impulses, attitudes, etc., esp. as a means of indicating detachment from a subject, theme, or emotion.
The alternative concept i HAVE to offer is "communication"... About solution, about how living together works
Yes, and by spanking a child you are communicating both your frustration and that fact that all actions have consequences.
how democracy works
Unfortunately, a family isn't a democracy. It's a communist dictatorship. Everyone in the family is expected to work for the common good of the family. Those that don't get punished and eventually thrown out.
how hierarchy works
Might make right. Those who have more power have all of th rights. This is true even in "democracies." This is the default law of nature. It is better that your child should experience a few minutes of pain and humiliation rather than a lifetime of failure and misery. Whereas you will not do any permanent damage to your child, society will have no problems crushing the last flickers of humanity out of them.
Beating a child or enforcing punishment is a way to withdraw from your responsibility as a parent and shows nothing but stupidity in my eyes.
Then you are walking through life with blinders on.
Every human being has the unalterable right of not being physically or psychically harmed.
I'm going to call bullshit on this one. Every person is responsible for his or her own happiness. Every person should be free to pursue that happiness. Happiness is not a given. Pain is a necessary part of our survival instinct. If you are never harmed, you lose your ability to detect danger and threat. Innocence may be a wonderful concept, but in the real world it can be deadly.
Long story short, life is meant to have an edge.
It's much easier to treat a child like a stupid dog, beat it and it won't do XY again.
I wouldn't exactly call it "easy." Hearing your child scream in pain is one of the most heartbreaking sounds you'll ever experience. Yet you administer these punishments knowing that the world will do a thousand times worse later on if you don't. Eventually the child will become immune to this form of punishment and begin weighing their options. By the time I was 10, I didn't defy my parents unless I thought it was worth taking some form of punishment for (by this time I was being made to work rather than getting the wooden spoon on my ass). Let me give you a few highlights that I learned from MY upbringing.
1) Might makes right. You can either comply, stand up and be crushed on principle, or get the hell out of the way.
2) Every action has a consequence. Not everything you want to do is really worth results.
3) Pick your battles. Don't fight unless you have a better than average chance of actually winning.
4) know your limitations and be mindful of the limitations of others. Fly to high, you get burned. Fly to low and you'll be yanked out of the sky.
5) Ethics are a largely a function of situation and necessity. Sure, it's wrong to lie. However, if you have a basement full of Jews you're probably not going to play the honesty card when the SS comes knocking on your door.
And that's only a few of the things I learned in a very short amount of time due to corporal punishment. I can lecture you until I'm blue in the face, but you won't learn it nearly as quickly as you would if I can raise my hands to you.
My dad would have said "k boy, I guess this is important for you. You know you have to get up tomorrow, do you think you can handle this AND do well tomorrow?"... I would have said "yes"...
And I would have played - in my young ignorance - until 3 a.m. I would have overslept, be late, do horribly, be frustrated, would have blamed myself... my father would have smiled, said something wise about time scheduling and would have asked, smiling broadly, if my raid session was more successful than my match; leaving me disabled to be mad at anybody but myself.
You know, I can say something about parenting because I KNOW what my das has done right...
Meridion
EDIT: I deliberately choose to ignore your pitiful attempt to insult Germany's legislative
@Jimmy_Scythe: "The world" is not some abstract manifest cruel abomination thats "outthere to get you". "The world" is what YOU and I make of it, and you know that by the way you see yourself, the world and the ability to "just survive" is very much what made and makes the world how it is. Of cooourse, you deny any responsibility for this, because you are "just trying to get by"... That's BS, and I know you know it...
And it would have been the GeStaPo, please, refer to historic examples if you've actually done your homework.
For what it's worth - back in 1986 I was in 6th grade and received the Dungeons & Dragons basic set for a birthday present. For the next several months, I had D&D fever bad and spent all my allowance to buy the advanced set, modules, cool crystal dice, etc. My parents put up with marathon gaming sessions for awhile but when I started blowing off homework assignments my mom stepped in and confiscated EVERYTHING. I did eventually get it all back, but not before I could show more responsibility.
I wasn't beaten or verbally abused. I simply lost priviledges for not doing what needed to get done. And to this day I thank my parents for doing what they did. Not only did I learn discipline, but I learned to be a balanced gamer who didn't put some imaginary life before my real one. It's a lesson not every kid I used to roleplay with learned - some are stuck in dead-end jobs after blowing off school for gaming while others didn't have a girlfriend until they were 25+ years old.
I know some of you will log on and say "well I play games 80 hours a week, and I have a supermodel girlfriend and am about to run for US president." Good for you. But that doesn't change the fact that Karazhan cry baby or many like him have serious problems with time management, self discipline, and setting priorities. Kids need to learn there are very real consequences for not balancing gaming with real life pursuits like studying, exercise, and real life socializing. They can learn these lessons from sympathetic parents or from professors and bosses who could care less if another loser drops out of college/gets fired.
Thinking back on how ate up I was with tabletop roleplaying, I shudder to think what parents go through today dealing with kids addicted to MMOGs.
PS - No Obama and Hillary, I don't want to hear about your new Tier 5 gear. And Giuliani and McCain, will you please just shut up about being able to run for president and being able to farm the black temple.
The situation in that sound byte was rather simple, and it escalated for no reason. Those parents can discuss it until they are blue in the face. The child only cares about finishing the raid. Thats it. Thats all he wants to do, and he will just try to convince them as long as he needs to, in order go back to playing. This has been my parenting experience. I have learned that some life lessons are only learned in retrospect. Only after the incident, only after the child has actually THOUGHT about what happened. When that light bulb goes off that says "You know... dad you were right. Because I went to bed early last night, I was able get up at 6am, and did awesome at my lacrosse game. I should of did that raid in WoW earlier so it could of ended before my bedtime." That is the moment you realize that you are doing a good job parenting. You actually taught your son something valuable about prioritizing. Of course, a parent may only hear this years later lol.
Further down the road in his life, children need to understand priorities. Real life takes precedence over video games. Getting up for school or work is more important than getting to lvl 70 in WoW. If we do not prepare a child for the harsh realities of life, we have no place in being parents. And we wind up with those children becoming the Paris Hiltons of tomorrow.
We can read all the psychiatry books, self help books, or parenting books that we want. It is only when we actually become a parent do we understand what it is really like. It is the most frustrating, infuriating, yet loving, and rewarding thing in life. I wouldn't give it up for the world. Nothing beats going home to a smiling youngen who only wants a hug and say "Hi Daddy!!".
Exactly!
Nice to see someone who understands good old fashioned parenting.
I completely disagree. If the child's only goal is to finish the raid and there is no discussing it, then the problem started long before that. Yes I agree you have to show a child who the adult is and where the ultimate authority lies, but if you're expecting your children to act like adults then you treat them like children of course going they are going to be rebellious. You say children need to learn some lessons through retospect, yet I believe adults have just as much to learn. They could have approached the situation differently. Maybe gave him advanced warning that his bedtime was approaching, set up parental controls and discussed it with him to come up with a reasonable time when he had to get off. Simple things so when the time comes it's not such a surprise.
They could also take some interest in the games he plays so they understand the frustration he feels when something like this happens. Parents don't realize that what is important to them isn't that same as what is important to their children. Insults and put downs are NEVER the answer and shows how ignorant you really are as a parent.
If you want your child to act like an adult you need to treat them like one. Some lessons need to be learnt through experience. If it got to the point like in the sound bye, explain to him that he can play until he is done, but he is responsibly for getting up in the morning and if he oversleeps he's not allowed to play for the next week. Also tell him he is not allowed to go to bed right after school. This will teach the child how to juggle responsibilities with pleasure and allow for him to talk to you on a more mature level rather then revert back to a childlike state.
Also rewarding your child for accomplishments is also a great way to motivate him to do better in every aspect of life. If he does well on his report card or his team wins a big game let him play an extra hour one night a week. This will show him that hard work actually does pay off.
I just don't understand what that kid is learning from the situation
That he has no control over the situation?
That is doesn't deserve the respect of having a discussion with his parents?
That something is wrong with him for wanting to play something he loves?
You think the next time his parents want to have a discussion he's going to listen?
If you treat your child like an adult they're going to act like an adult, if you treat them like a child they're going to act like a child.
Hahah if it were my dad I would have died about 2.5 seconds after starting shouting.
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Comments
I completely agree that each child is different and has different needs. Some children mearly need a tough look and stern tone. Some children have pshycological disorders and need professional help.
But Some children need to be physically corrected when they misbehave. As a parent it is your job to determine the best course of action with dealing with your own child.
Feel bad for the guild..LMAO
btw, scenes like those happen in many households endless times with endless topics, god, they are kids, what would you expect. Reason? from a 13 year old kid? ....
Ideally:
Parent: In 10 minutes, you need to shut off the game and get ready to turn in.
Kid: NO.
<10 minutes passes>
Parent: Please go ahead, shut the game, and get ready for bed.
Kid: NO! BLAH WHAA BLAH BLAH WHAA WHINE
Parent: <walks to computer, shuts off, points to bedroom> MOVE IT NOW! Any more backtalk will get you punished.
If child decides to back talk, he gets punished.
"...and with that cryptic comment, I'm off to bed!"
Oh yea, suuure, no question, authority-parents raise disciplined kids. But they tend to move out early and move away, a scientifically proven fact. They tend to keep a emotional distance to their parents throughout their lives. They are known to have problems expressing either their actual will or to compromise.
Raising children is about mistakes and learning, not about rule and punishment. You are the guide of your kid, not the master. Even an eight year old has his or her own will, implementing it into something that everyone can live with is the key here.
And YES, disciplined and regular people come out of those families. Great, but discipline and regularity is not all that counts, although modern society wants you to believe this.
Meridion
P.S: Oh yea, and what is punishment? I reckon this to be a totally US phenomenom, in my time in the US I found this a way of raising kids in almost every household I got to know. Like not using a PC for x weeks? What would you do if that happened to you. I'm 26, and I know I would grow cold hate towards the one that decided to set his way of life over mine. Do you think children are ANY different from this?
i 100% completely agree. I took a child studies class back when and it is proven. but am i the only one here that see's something wrong with a Male possiabley highschool student crying and acting like a pre-maddona to get his way the issue. Things like this can be more then just parenting. it can be a phisical or chemical issue.
what i was hearing with the parents was good. they were trying to take chage of the problem. maybe they didn't do it the right way? who knows. but that doesn't mean they are bad parents or anything. The kid has some emotional issues badly to be that age and crying to his parents about a video game to get what he wants.
That being said I still think the kid needs some balls. and he needs to man up. Become a man. if it was my kid and he was that age and started crying over a video game like that, i would probley take him to the gym and get him some boxing or juditsu classes or something. Toughen him up. make him less of a.... wimp (for the lack of a better word i can't say here
)
Well, there has been many good post on parenting, some of which I think are garbage and others that have made me think.....But as I do not come to this site to discuss parenting, so I will take my leave of this thread. However before I go... For all the people that think they are experts... remember that real life and books are very different. Every child is different.. and I do agree that spanking is not as effective a method of discipline, occasionally it is a method that works.... when used rarely. Natural consequences are far better. I have not spanked my child in years... I agree that is can distance your child from you. I was spanked as a child... in fact I would say abused more likely. I chose to break that cycle and have chosen to speak with my children more often than not..... While this works with my oldest my youngest is very skilled at tuning myself and my wife out. Instead I lead by example and enforce realistic discipline measures, things that would be consequences as an adult.
So far in this thread people have judged others with very little information, perhaps we should look and ask yourself... Have you walked a mile in there shoes? Until you do, or you know them personally, you should not judge. Words sometimes do not convey the idea you believe they do... and sometime you do not take the same thing from the written word as someone else.
More pennies from,
xXSeraphielXx
OMG I hope he was being sarcastic too!
This guy sounds intelligent, relatively well adjusted, if a little bit angry. The problem is he is just offering criticizm of the inherrently imperfect system of parenting, and not really offering any alternative suggestions.
An interesting arguement. Personally I think it's a load of malarky. Please sight references to this 'scientifically proven fact'.
Again interesting points, but bogged down by emotional language and posturing. And who is this big bag 'modern society' anyway. Their aren't twelve guys in a room some where brainstorming on how to suck the fun and meaning out of every person on the planets lives.
There are too many people like this. They see inequity, and are upset by it, but can't see through their own anger and frustration over the issue towards offering solutions. It's a shame, people like this have something to offer, even though they thems don't often times know what it is.
Well yes and no.
Do you think the mom has any idea how hard it is to set up a 25 man and how long it takes to get it organized and stuff?
He said he never has done it before and he was all excited and the mom must be having pms or that new pmm,
because she was not showing any love or understanding at all.She wasn't even trying to compromise .
Maybe if she let him play a bit more he would listen to her once in a while,instead of demanding he do what he is told all the time.
Sometimes parents need to be understanding and see what maybe important to their child instead of trying to teach them a lesson.
I think the mom needs to watch a few episodes of Shalom in The Home or something.
Um dude you most definately are not a parent! Your views hopefully will change if or when you have kids! Had I ever whined like that to my parents:
A: The plug would have been pulled on the comp!
B: Then I prolly would have gotten clobbered!
C: I would have my sub cancelled after all of the above if it had happened more than 2 times!
Why should mom care about how long it takes to set up a 25 man raid! She asked for something to be done or what ever! He needs to bow out and say he's gotta bail cause something came up! That is called respect for your parents! Oh BTW I couldn't listen to the whole clip cause my ears almost started bleeding from the whining and I wanted to smack him up side the head for them!
It sounds to me like Infrared has done a lot more, and given many more chances than many parents would have done for their kids. And given that he has other young children in the house to look after I think he did the right thing. Unfortunately the world isn't a perfect place, which you should know full well as a professor, and kids won't always turn out perfect nor will they turn out the same in adulthood after being raised under the same roof with the same rules and guidelines.
My family is a perfect example: 3 siblings all raised the exact same way. I turned out OK. I have an education, nice house, wife, kids, good paying job, etc. I grew up receiving spankings when I did something wrong. Spankings, not beatings - they always talked to us after a spanking to ensure that we knew why we were disciplined and why we shouldn't do "that" again - lesson learned and noted. I respect my parents for the values and morals they instilled in me as a child and on into adulthood. To this day I want nothing more than to make my parents proud of me and for them to know that I love them. But my sister lies, cheats, steals, lives on Welfare, has physically hit my Mom and Dad on a number of occasions, has almost been to jail twice( my parents kept her out of it by covering for her) and has 5 kids by two different dads. She's stolen cash, credit cards, and written bad checks although she was never into drugs or alcohol. My parents have been dealing with her crap since she was about 13 and she is now 29. They've tried counseling, but that only works with willing participants and my sister was anything but willing. She didn't have a problem, my parents did - according to her. Despite all the pain and bad feelings they've taken her back into their house many times since she first got married into an abusive relationship, then again when she got divorced, only to be stolen from, lied to, and taken advantage of at every turn of kindness for their loving daughter. After years of this abuse they finally couldn't take it anymore and put her out of the house with the kids. I see them going through this every day as they still pay her bills because she can't afford them on her minimum wage job. My parents can't cut the strings now because of the 5 grandkids. It's a living nightmare for them and there is nothing any of us can do about it. My brother isn't as bad, from a moral standpoint, but he is still very self-absorbed and does what he wants regardless of the outcome to others.
It sounds to me like Infrared was at his last straw and needed to cut his own strings to force his son to grow up and man up. Don't judge him as a bad parent because his ADULT son made bad decisions with his own life. Family or not you shouldn't have to be forced to deal with that kind of behavior. And you can't force someone to get help if they don't recognize the problem. Ask any recovering addict that one and they'll tell you it's the truth. The ball is in his son's court now.
Kudos to you Infrared, I know it wasn't an easy choice.
Back to the main post. The kid was being a kid, but I personally would've nipped it in the butt a little sooner by pulling the plug. And he probably wouldn't be playing the game much after that. It sounds like there may have been a history of issues with him and the gaming time . He sounded like a good kid albeit a little on the whiny side. My 9 and 7 year old have their own computer and they turn it off when I say it's time to turn it off. They understand that if they don't do as I ask then they stand to lose their privileges for a week or so. And I don't have to spank them.
Seriously though, they need to take that kid out behind the woodshed and beat him like a redheaded stepchild.
And to the kid who said he would run away from home, if I was that kids parents I would PRAY that he would!Seconded!
But that would not have worked for me one bit. I would have listened to that and taken advantage of it so quick. I needed spankings. It's the only time I ever listened to anyone when I was little. Notice I said "anyone", not just my parents. I didn't listen to teachers, principals, parents, doctors, police, etc. The only time I ever took anyone serious was when my dad spanked my ass. It's the only thing that got through my thick skull. And I'm glad he did it.
===============================
Beating a child or enforcing punishment is a way to withdraw from your responsibility as a parent and shows nothing but stupidity in my eyes. FYI, here in Germany, if you beat a child, if you only slap it, this is criminal act. Every human being has the unalterable right of not being physically or psychically harmed. It's the law, but hey, who cares about the law anyways, right?
It's much easier to treat a child like a stupid dog, beat it and it won't do XY again. YAY
If you PM me I will tell you where I know this perfectly scientifically proven fact from. It's in my - unfortunately german - clinical psychiatrics book. You can look this up in any medical psychology book you want btw. I've been taught this in my first year at university TBH as one of the most basic sources of neurotic complexes affecting adults.
meridion
Further down the road in his life, children need to understand priorities. Real life takes precedence over video games. Getting up for school or work is more important than getting to lvl 70 in WoW. If we do not prepare a child for the harsh realities of life, we have no place in being parents. And we wind up with those children becoming the Paris Hiltons of tomorrow.
We can read all the psychiatry books, self help books, or parenting books that we want. It is only when we actually become a parent do we understand what it is really like. It is the most frustrating, infuriating, yet loving, and rewarding thing in life. I wouldn't give it up for the world. Nothing beats going home to a smiling youngen who only wants a hug and say "Hi Daddy!!".
"...and with that cryptic comment, I'm off to bed!"
Exactly!
Nice to see someone who understands good old fashioned parenting.
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Yes, and by spanking a child you are communicating both your frustration and that fact that all actions have consequences.
how democracy works
Unfortunately, a family isn't a democracy. It's a communist dictatorship. Everyone in the family is expected to work for the common good of the family. Those that don't get punished and eventually thrown out.
how hierarchy works
Might make right. Those who have more power have all of th rights. This is true even in "democracies." This is the default law of nature. It is better that your child should experience a few minutes of pain and humiliation rather than a lifetime of failure and misery. Whereas you will not do any permanent damage to your child, society will have no problems crushing the last flickers of humanity out of them.
Beating a child or enforcing punishment is a way to withdraw from your responsibility as a parent and shows nothing but stupidity in my eyes.
Then you are walking through life with blinders on.
Every human being has the unalterable right of not being physically or psychically harmed.
I'm going to call bullshit on this one. Every person is responsible for his or her own happiness. Every person should be free to pursue that happiness. Happiness is not a given. Pain is a necessary part of our survival instinct. If you are never harmed, you lose your ability to detect danger and threat. Innocence may be a wonderful concept, but in the real world it can be deadly.
Long story short, life is meant to have an edge.
It's much easier to treat a child like a stupid dog, beat it and it won't do XY again.
I wouldn't exactly call it "easy." Hearing your child scream in pain is one of the most heartbreaking sounds you'll ever experience. Yet you administer these punishments knowing that the world will do a thousand times worse later on if you don't. Eventually the child will become immune to this form of punishment and begin weighing their options. By the time I was 10, I didn't defy my parents unless I thought it was worth taking some form of punishment for (by this time I was being made to work rather than getting the wooden spoon on my ass). Let me give you a few highlights that I learned from MY upbringing.
1) Might makes right. You can either comply, stand up and be crushed on principle, or get the hell out of the way.
2) Every action has a consequence. Not everything you want to do is really worth results.
3) Pick your battles. Don't fight unless you have a better than average chance of actually winning.
4) know your limitations and be mindful of the limitations of others. Fly to high, you get burned. Fly to low and you'll be yanked out of the sky.
5) Ethics are a largely a function of situation and necessity. Sure, it's wrong to lie. However, if you have a basement full of Jews you're probably not going to play the honesty card when the SS comes knocking on your door.
And that's only a few of the things I learned in a very short amount of time due to corporal punishment. I can lecture you until I'm blue in the face, but you won't learn it nearly as quickly as you would if I can raise my hands to you.
And I would have played - in my young ignorance - until 3 a.m. I would have overslept, be late, do horribly, be frustrated, would have blamed myself... my father would have smiled, said something wise about time scheduling and would have asked, smiling broadly, if my raid session was more successful than my match; leaving me disabled to be mad at anybody but myself.
You know, I can say something about parenting because I KNOW what my das has done right...
Meridion
EDIT: I deliberately choose to ignore your pitiful attempt to insult Germany's legislative
And it would have been the GeStaPo, please, refer to historic examples if you've actually done your homework.
For what it's worth - back in 1986 I was in 6th grade and received the Dungeons & Dragons basic set for a birthday present. For the next several months, I had D&D fever bad and spent all my allowance to buy the advanced set, modules, cool crystal dice, etc. My parents put up with marathon gaming sessions for awhile but when I started blowing off homework assignments my mom stepped in and confiscated EVERYTHING. I did eventually get it all back, but not before I could show more responsibility.
I wasn't beaten or verbally abused. I simply lost priviledges for not doing what needed to get done. And to this day I thank my parents for doing what they did. Not only did I learn discipline, but I learned to be a balanced gamer who didn't put some imaginary life before my real one. It's a lesson not every kid I used to roleplay with learned - some are stuck in dead-end jobs after blowing off school for gaming while others didn't have a girlfriend until they were 25+ years old.
I know some of you will log on and say "well I play games 80 hours a week, and I have a supermodel girlfriend and am about to run for US president." Good for you. But that doesn't change the fact that Karazhan cry baby or many like him have serious problems with time management, self discipline, and setting priorities. Kids need to learn there are very real consequences for not balancing gaming with real life pursuits like studying, exercise, and real life socializing. They can learn these lessons from sympathetic parents or from professors and bosses who could care less if another loser drops out of college/gets fired.
Thinking back on how ate up I was with tabletop roleplaying, I shudder to think what parents go through today dealing with kids addicted to MMOGs.
PS - No Obama and Hillary, I don't want to hear about your new Tier 5 gear. And Giuliani and McCain, will you please just shut up about being able to run for president and being able to farm the black temple.
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Exactly!
Nice to see someone who understands good old fashioned parenting.
I completely disagree. If the child's only goal is to finish the raid and there is no discussing it, then the problem started long before that. Yes I agree you have to show a child who the adult is and where the ultimate authority lies, but if you're expecting your children to act like adults then you treat them like children of course going they are going to be rebellious. You say children need to learn some lessons through retospect, yet I believe adults have just as much to learn. They could have approached the situation differently. Maybe gave him advanced warning that his bedtime was approaching, set up parental controls and discussed it with him to come up with a reasonable time when he had to get off. Simple things so when the time comes it's not such a surprise.
They could also take some interest in the games he plays so they understand the frustration he feels when something like this happens. Parents don't realize that what is important to them isn't that same as what is important to their children. Insults and put downs are NEVER the answer and shows how ignorant you really are as a parent.
If you want your child to act like an adult you need to treat them like one. Some lessons need to be learnt through experience. If it got to the point like in the sound bye, explain to him that he can play until he is done, but he is responsibly for getting up in the morning and if he oversleeps he's not allowed to play for the next week. Also tell him he is not allowed to go to bed right after school. This will teach the child how to juggle responsibilities with pleasure and allow for him to talk to you on a more mature level rather then revert back to a childlike state.
Also rewarding your child for accomplishments is also a great way to motivate him to do better in every aspect of life. If he does well on his report card or his team wins a big game let him play an extra hour one night a week. This will show him that hard work actually does pay off.
I just don't understand what that kid is learning from the situation
That he has no control over the situation?
That is doesn't deserve the respect of having a discussion with his parents?
That something is wrong with him for wanting to play something he loves?
You think the next time his parents want to have a discussion he's going to listen?
If you treat your child like an adult they're going to act like an adult, if you treat them like a child they're going to act like a child.
It's as simple as that.
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