Originally posted by Coolguy20 For one check out the guild wars black males and females THEY acctually LOOK black. Same with guildwars asians.
This explaination doesnt make the cut for me, sorry but you will have to explain what features beside skin color should black skinned people have to be considered black in your opinion, since u are the original poster....
Something other then a white looking guy with dark paint slapped on him and called a black guy. Guildwars is my explanation because if you want to know what features i want besides skin color once again look at guildwars, the different hairstyles the physcial features etc. I dont care about the enviorment or the surroundings but they actually make ethnic types look really good and diversed from once another.
So, when i ask for a further explanation i get the same one.... i guess that closes the debate... when the OP doesnt know what he wants, who will....
I just told you what i wanted diversity in mmos like vanguard and guildwars has, what more do you want me to say, i said i would love it if more games had the physcial looks etc like the blacks and asians in guildwars do in other games besides the slap the paint on the white looking guy. WoW had the same thing as guildwars different looking human ethnic races. It was changed before beta. Like i said what more do you want me to say. Guildwars black people and asians are the closest looking to the real life races.
What you aren't understanding is that these games aren't based on REAL Life Races. Guild Wars has different ethnic races because their LORE has them. Same thing with Vanguard. Their LORE has different ethnic races. Games like LOTRO and WAR do not have LORE that has an asian or an african theme. So why would they have characters that look like that. You can't just include them just because. It has to fit into the world the creator made. In these cases LOTRO has to fit into the world that Tolkien created and WAR will need to fit into the world that Games Workshop created. Neither of these worlds have diversity in the human characters. Their human characters are based on Anglo-Saxon Europeans. Would you get upset if a movie was made all about vikings and their were no african looking people as vikings? No of course not because that would be rediculous. The object is to make the game as close to the LORE and THEME of the world you are basing it on.
Cathay, Nippon, and Araby in Warhammer lore. Haradrim, Easterlings, Umbar, to name a few in LOTR.
U complete missed the point... just because a fantasy world or the real world have mongoloid or negroid races in them you cant force someone who has made his own imaginary world to make it fit your standards. You have the option not to play it if you dont like it.
And you've completely missed the point that yes there are people of color in these worlds and there really isn't anything in these games that says there can't be a paladin with what we would consider to be African like features, etc...
It's not about forcing anything it's about realizing that there really are no restrictions lore wise in either of your examples that would preclude more ethnic based appearances for PC's.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Coolguy20 That in a medieval type mmorpg there is a place for different colored people such as black people. I say this because take a look at WoW and war especcially war where it will have no black people at all that there can be black characters that are playable, even LOTRO proved this and the movies had NO dark humans
Because WoW didin't had black people and...oh no wait, WoW DOES have black skin colour.
I think almost every game that offers customization has the option for a black character
Actually if you look at beta screenshots they actually had humans with a greater variety of anglosaxon and african features (never saw asian, persian or hispanic like characters). Then they redid all those models to have only anglo saxon models that were worse than the originals in beta.
The bottom line is, if you want it then create a game that has it. Complaining about this will not make it happen. I tried to educate individuals, but I guess they do not understand. Wait for the game Africa to come out. While I play a green Orc in War you can worry about why there are no dark humans.
I think the OP's original post was quite clear and it wasn't until it was twisted and hijacked that things ran a foul.
Sadly one of the few negatives of the internet is it serves as one of the last bastions of ignorance & stupidity without fear of conseqence.
Now...I too appreciate the fact games like Vanguard, Guild Wars, CoX etc offer diversity as I believe more choices are always good thing. but make no mistake I also subscribe to keeping with a title's lore. Translation, I don't want to see people of color in a title just for the sake of doing so.
However we can clearly see that so vigorous a defense of Tolkien's lore is a mere smoke screen for more dubious intentions.
Nevertheless It boils down to this..
As this genre grows we're going to see a myriad of titles that will shift from the fantasy realm. What that means to you the consumer is you'll be able to experience more cultures and backgrounds. Trust me the more you learn about people it helps you to appreciate our differences and that's a good thing.
Now...If you're one of those who harbor Ill will towards a particular race or ethnicity than perhaps MMO's really aren't for you. Online games are NOT safe havens for childish bigotries.
Originally posted by Coolguy20 That in a medieval type mmorpg there is a place for different colored people such as black people. I say this because take a look at WoW and war especcially war where it will have no black people at all that there can be black characters that are playable, even LOTRO proved this and the movies had NO dark humans
I agree. This thread got hijacked, but the OP makes a point. I'm white, and I sometimes try to create a character that looks like me. If I was black I'd be happy that I could finally try to make a character that looked like me. I think maybe I've just taken it for granted. (I can never really seem to make a character that actually look like me, though. But that might just be because I suck at character creation.)
- Phos
AAH! A troll fire! Quick, pour some Kool-Aid on it!!!
Well you really shouldnt take black people serious when they talk about racism, everything points to racism in their minds. If a dog bites them its because they are black, if they miss the bus its cause they are black, if they dont get a job; you guessed it, theyre black.
They must think white people go home at the end of the day and relax on their throne after a hard day of whipping black people.
Well you really shouldnt take black people serious when they talk about racism, everything points to racism in their minds. If a dog bites them its because they are black, if they miss the bus its cause they are black, if they dont get a job; you guessed it, theyre black.
They must think white people go home at the end of the day and relax on their throne after a hard day of whipping black people.
Only white people in this thread so far has brought up racism, your logic has failed.
Well you really shouldnt take black people serious when they talk about racism, everything points to racism in their minds. If a dog bites them its because they are black, if they miss the bus its cause they are black, if they dont get a job; you guessed it, theyre black.
They must think white people go home at the end of the day and relax on their throne after a hard day of whipping black people.
You think far too highly of yourself mate.
The fact that you even bothered to post such ignorant drivel proves you've been watching far too much TV.
Most games now have a black skin option, the OP seemed to think that WoW and LOTRO didnt have the option, well sorry, but both of those games have the black skin tones in them.
Really though this is all pretty damn stupid imo.
Garrik
________________________________
"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."
MMOGs are the work of the devil!!!!.... why do you ask?! Well for starters there is no Jesus class in any mmog I played,I want to be Jesus,damn atheist developer.Also do MMOGs have something against sarcasm,why isnt there a sarcasm skill,also why isnt there a character that looks like me ingame?!. .. do they hate me,the developers are racists!!
Putting sarcasm aside,today I played toon town and it made me want to go to a school and start shooting people left and right,it gave me a very murderous mood,they WERE right,video games are the source of violence!!
Seriously now if you talk about racisms in games aswell than the world is surely ending,I dont care if I can only play asian or a white character in a game,if it's fun il play.I hate people that lecture others about racism,politics,religion etc... it's a free world if I dont like X race than let me not like them aslong as I dont go out and start thining their population.And no I am not a racists,I do not hate any black,white,green,purple red etc. people,tho I hate stupid people and ... I hate the monkey people too,they come in at night and steal my socks!!,they are using it to build their mothership!!!1
this post is getting meaningless....all that we are saying now are just racism-related stuff and i've read even about islam...you said muslims are the suicide bombers, and all that load of crap..shows your ignorance about the world. us support of israel killed millions of arabs...the crusades are known to be the most cruel periods of the world..but no, the crusades are led by the muslims no? give up debating about all those race stuff now everyone is reliant on each other in this globalizing age..just cut the crap and close this post. and no i am not a muslim.
To play or not to play, that is the question - MMO Freak
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
That in a medieval type mmorpg there is a place for different colored people such as black people. I say this because take a look at WoW and war especcially war where it will have no black people at all that there can be black characters that are playable, even LOTRO proved this and the movies had NO dark humans
Originally posted by Coolguy20 For one check out the guild wars black males and females THEY acctually LOOK black. Same with guildwars asians.
This explaination doesnt make the cut for me, sorry but you will have to explain what features beside skin color should black skinned people have to be considered black in your opinion, since u are the original poster....
Something other then a white looking guy with dark paint slapped on him and called a black guy. Guildwars is my explanation because if you want to know what features i want besides skin color once again look at guildwars, the different hairstyles the physcial features etc. I dont care about the enviorment or the surroundings but they actually make ethnic types look really good and diversed from once another.
So, when i ask for a further explanation i get the same one.... i guess that closes the debate... when the OP doesnt know what he wants, who will....
I just told you what i wanted diversity in mmos like vanguard and guildwars has, what more do you want me to say, i said i would love it if more games had the physcial looks etc like the blacks and asians in guildwars do in other games besides the slap the paint on the white looking guy.
WoW had the same thing as guildwars different looking human ethnic races. It was changed before beta. Like i said what more do you want me to say. Guildwars black people and asians are the closest looking to the real life races.
What you aren't understanding is that these games aren't based on REAL Life Races. Guild Wars has different ethnic races because their LORE has them. Same thing with Vanguard. Their LORE has different ethnic races. Games like LOTRO and WAR do not have LORE that has an asian or an african theme. So why would they have characters that look like that.
Cathay, Nippon, and Araby in Warhammer lore. Haradrim, Easterlings, Umbar, to name a few in LOTR. I think you are pretty much wrong in this regard. Not to mention the fact that humans in fantasy games are a static population. Wars, famines, plagues, trade, exploration, and simple human curiosity etc....all play a role in moving populations even in fantasy worlds like War and LOTR.
For lotr though the easterlings and haradrim are allied with sauron and as everyone knows you can only play the good guys in lotro. Well apart from monster play but still easterlings and haradrim are not included. Also their lands were not in Middle-Earth they were to the east and south i think.
I said LOTR as in the books in which the fantasy lore is based on. I wasn't specifically talking about the game itself. I know you can only play the "good guys" but that is not a static term. Oh and Middle-Earth encompasses more then what you saw in the movies. Go read all of Tolkien's less popular books and educate yourself.
The people called the Haradrim and the lands called the Harad are part of Adra and the realms of man are called Middle-Earth. Adra and Middle-Earth itself is huge and encompasses more then what you've seen in the popular works of Tolkien.
They deleted my post in the first pages, anyways, what i wanted to say is that: i like character customization, it gives you the chance to be who you wish to be and not anyone else. In the past, the lore from wich most MMO's is taken was from another age, more race-biased, but heavens, we are in the XXIth century now, and I dont think race or racism has a place in our modern world, and it includes the MMO's. I'm Euro-standard type, in WAR I wish to play a mutated pseudo-human chaoslord -are they nordic? No, they are Chaos, semi-alien-. And maybe as a 2nd char a BlackSkin ORC; but anyways, this is no a highly customizable char system in WAR. I dont mind a lot about races, but about individuals. And these individuals have to get the chance chosing whatever they want to be like in our NextGen MMO's. SWG improved it well too.
I think you will find that the men in the chaos factions are based on Viking's aka Nordic people.
No not entirely. Most who worship Khorne as their primary god are from the northern areas above the Empire and styled in a Nordic manner true but others are described from the Eastern sections of the Warhammer world. Many roving clans of horsemen who are in the background and lore book Liber Chaotic described as Mongolian/Hun in nature are also part of the Chaos Horde.
So no they are not all Blonde, Blue eyed and fair skinned Vikings. Many Chaos hordes men are more like Attila the Hun or Genghis Khan ( Asian )in the descriptions given about their appearances and in their mounted roaming life styles. The book Liber Chaotic describes the forces of Chaos in great description I'd suggest you read it.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Say what you want to say about it the bottom line is that there is not a major MMO out there that doesn't have white people in it and I would not be afraid to bet that ,were there one that existed, it would not be heavily played. Now all you MMO scholars go ahead and prove me wrong and link me ONE mmo out there that is heavily played and has no white representation in it. I'll give you 2 points for any MMO that has black people and no white people that is played at all. One day my best friend and gaming buddy asked me what was my hangup about always playing black characters in MMO's. My answer was simple and true. I play them because I fear if I don't they will get phased out completely. "You see" I told him, "It is a white man's fantasy to live in a world where there ARE NO BLACK MEN!".
Isn't that a little racist thinking that white men in general want a world with no black men? And why is that a white man's fantasy? Why can't that be an Asian person's fantasy? Or a Native American?
This means that I was forced to endure an elongated head during my entire several years of EQ1. That I was in turn forced to be a human or submit to being a bald headed alien to stay true to that original race in EQ2. The first bug I typed up during my beta test of Horizons was that there were no options for making a black character. And I passed on Horizons, WoW, and several other games in my time because there were no options for black characters but more so because the only option for the human class was white. Did you even play WoW? You can make black characters. There are plenty of black NPCs.
We just need to get past it all really. I for one can't wait.
There has never been a meeting in some corporate headquarters somewhere, where there was a bunch of white guys in suits sitting around a table, saying to themselves, "Well, alright. We have to make sure that there's no black people in this game. Tell that to the artists." The fact is, Tolkien lore started it all, and that was heavily based on English fantasy like King Arthur and other epic medieval fantasy tales. No one is keeping black people out, they just don't really see a need to bring them in if they're trying to stick to Tolkien lore. If there was a game centered in a fantasy Africa centuries ago, I obviously wouldn't mind playing a black person; in fact, I'd very well prefer it, because of the lore (that game doesn't sound half bad, actually. Sounds like it'd be a nice change of pace).
I don't know why you can't just get past it all, when even you admit that we all need to.
_____________________________________ "Io rido, e rider mio non passa dentro; Io ardo, e l'arsion mia non par di fore." -Machiavelli
That in a medieval type mmorpg there is a place for different colored people such as black people. I say this because take a look at WoW and war especcially war where it will have no black people at all that there can be black characters that are playable, even LOTRO proved this and the movies had NO dark humans
Actually WoW had black humans etc in the beta, the characters looked a lot better to be frank.. check out old hillsbrad - southshore in the CoT. Some of the old models were added there in TBC.
and you can still create a black dude in WoW as your own character.
LOTRO, if you actually create a player from anywhere BUT BREE you'll see the difference in skin colours etc, and some of them are very black. seriously create player, change heritage watch your bree character change to a black guy when you put Rohan in.. go on.. do it... see..
you were wrong. and the movies just plain sucked. the end.
So when the new expansion comes up "Rohan" you'll see a very large number of black NPCs.
next time troll elsewhere. thank you and goodnight =]
This sounds like a dave chappelle skit. Most games do, but not all, and should intergrate black people and every other racial option into customization for characters. Yeah, back in the dark ages and all that jazz there wasnt black people or anything in europe, but hell there wasnt trolls and goblins either. But you gotta make due with what you get.
This sounds like a dave chappelle skit. Most games do, but not all, and should intergrate black people and every other racial option into customization for characters. Yeah, back in the dark ages and all that jazz there wasnt black people or anything in europe, but hell there wasnt trolls and goblins either. But you gotta make due with what you get.
I agree 100%. In this day in age if you can customize your freakin eyebrows you should be allowed to change your skin color. Now i'm not saying we should then be able to change every little detail like the size of your eyes and nose because then thats just adding the game to get more complex, but throwing in skin color change would not cause any problems. And i guarentee you the majority of players would appreciate it as opposed to be upset that it lost the "middle ages" theme. Nobody really cares THAT much, now with that being said i'm sure some people do but the majority would like the skin color change option. But in any case, lets find out
Comments
And you've completely missed the point that yes there are people of color in these worlds and there really isn't anything in these games that says there can't be a paladin with what we would consider to be African like features, etc...
It's not about forcing anything it's about realizing that there really are no restrictions lore wise in either of your examples that would preclude more ethnic based appearances for PC's.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
I think almost every game that offers customization has the option for a black character
Actually if you look at beta screenshots they actually had humans with a greater variety of anglosaxon and african features (never saw asian, persian or hispanic like characters). Then they redid all those models to have only anglo saxon models that were worse than the originals in beta.
I think the OP's original post was quite clear and it wasn't until it was twisted and hijacked that things ran a foul.
However we can clearly see that so vigorous a defense of Tolkien's lore is a mere smoke screen for more dubious intentions.
As this genre grows we're going to see a myriad of titles that will shift from the fantasy realm. What that means to you the consumer is you'll be able to experience more cultures and backgrounds. Trust me the more you learn about people it helps you to appreciate our differences and that's a good thing.
Dutchess Zarraa Voltayre
Reborn/Zero Sum/Ancient Legacy/Jagged Legion/Feared/Nuke & Pave.
I agree. This thread got hijacked, but the OP makes a point. I'm white, and I sometimes try to create a character that looks like me. If I was black I'd be happy that I could finally try to make a character that looked like me. I think maybe I've just taken it for granted. (I can never really seem to make a character that actually look like me, though. But that might just be because I suck at character creation.)
- Phos
They must think white people go home at the end of the day and relax on their throne after a hard day of whipping black people.
Actually EQ1 had black people called the erudite who were wise and kept to themselves.
However I felt it too was an issue because it was a segregated race in which the humans were all white and the erudites were all black.
I noticed in EQ2 they changed this and u can have black humans and barbarians.My barbarian guardian is indeed black just has caucasian featurs hehe.
The fact that you even bothered to post such ignorant drivel proves you've been watching far too much TV.
l actually feel sorry for you.
Dutchess Zarraa Voltayre
Reborn/Zero Sum/Ancient Legacy/Jagged Legion/Feared/Nuke & Pave.
Character customisation is really important in an MMO.
Players want to be able to recreate themselves online.
Most games now have a black skin option, the OP seemed to think that WoW and LOTRO didnt have the option, well sorry, but both of those games have the black skin tones in them.
Really though this is all pretty damn stupid imo.
Garrik
________________________________
"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."
MMOGs are the work of the devil!!!!.... why do you ask?! Well for starters there is no Jesus class in any mmog I played,I want to be Jesus,damn atheist developer.Also do MMOGs have something against sarcasm,why isnt there a sarcasm skill,also why isnt there a character that looks like me ingame?!. .. do they hate me,the developers are racists!!
Putting sarcasm aside,today I played toon town and it made me want to go to a school and start shooting people left and right,it gave me a very murderous mood,they WERE right,video games are the source of violence!!
Seriously now if you talk about racisms in games aswell than the world is surely ending,I dont care if I can only play asian or a white character in a game,if it's fun il play.I hate people that lecture others about racism,politics,religion etc... it's a free world if I dont like X race than let me not like them aslong as I dont go out and start thining their population.And no I am not a racists,I do not hate any black,white,green,purple red etc. people,tho I hate stupid people and ... I hate the monkey people too,they come in at night and steal my socks!!,they are using it to build their mothership!!!1
To play or not to play, that is the question - MMO Freak
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Hey some of the Orcs were black... ftw.
I said LOTR as in the books in which the fantasy lore is based on. I wasn't specifically talking about the game itself. I know you can only play the "good guys" but that is not a static term. Oh and Middle-Earth encompasses more then what you saw in the movies. Go read all of Tolkien's less popular books and educate yourself.
The people called the Haradrim and the lands called the Harad are part of Adra and the realms of man are called Middle-Earth. Adra and Middle-Earth itself is huge and encompasses more then what you've seen in the popular works of Tolkien.
"Middle-earth" is specifically intended to describe the lands east of the Great Sea (Belegaer), thus excluding Aman, but including Harad and other mortal lands not visited in Tolkien's stories.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
No not entirely. Most who worship Khorne as their primary god are from the northern areas above the Empire and styled in a Nordic manner true but others are described from the Eastern sections of the Warhammer world. Many roving clans of horsemen who are in the background and lore book Liber Chaotic described as Mongolian/Hun in nature are also part of the Chaos Horde.
So no they are not all Blonde, Blue eyed and fair skinned Vikings. Many Chaos hordes men are more like Attila the Hun or Genghis Khan ( Asian )in the descriptions given about their appearances and in their mounted roaming life styles. The book Liber Chaotic describes the forces of Chaos in great description I'd suggest you read it.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
I don't know why you can't just get past it all, when even you admit that we all need to.
_____________________________________
"Io rido, e rider mio non passa dentro;
Io ardo, e l'arsion mia non par di fore."
-Machiavelli
Actually WoW had black humans etc in the beta, the characters looked a lot better to be frank.. check out old hillsbrad - southshore in the CoT. Some of the old models were added there in TBC.
and you can still create a black dude in WoW as your own character.
LOTRO, if you actually create a player from anywhere BUT BREE you'll see the difference in skin colours etc, and some of them are very black. seriously create player, change heritage watch your bree character change to a black guy when you put Rohan in.. go on.. do it... see..
you were wrong. and the movies just plain sucked. the end.
So when the new expansion comes up "Rohan" you'll see a very large number of black NPCs.
next time troll elsewhere. thank you and goodnight =]
This sounds like a dave chappelle skit. Most games do, but not all, and should intergrate black people and every other racial option into customization for characters. Yeah, back in the dark ages and all that jazz there wasnt black people or anything in europe, but hell there wasnt trolls and goblins either. But you gotta make due with what you get.