WAR will probably sell more but no doubt AoC will be light years ahead of WAR in terms of everything.
Oh and AmazingAvery don't waste your time trying to explain to these guys, they are misinformed on purpose.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by knives22
WAR will probably sell more but no doubt AoC will be light years ahead of WAR in terms of everything.
Oh and AmazingAvery don't waste your time trying to explain to these guys, they are misinformed on purpose.
I think its good to get the true word out for both games. Both games have decent company reputations behind them, both have decent publishers too. But the "if's" "but's" "maybe's" about how it all comes together are all over the place - one thing I hate is really bad SPECULATION. I just try and put the word out there for the game that appeals to me most. I have only time to play one, AoC is due out in just over 4 months, WAR was Q1 '08 last I saw, I would like for people to see what AoC is all about and get interested as I am thats all. There is plenty to get excited about as more and more info is released and a summer full of game expo's.
Originally posted by AmazingAvery [quote from developer]"This all comes down to the statement "No, non raiding end game players are not second class citizens in Age of Conan""
And in the same post, the exact same developer said
The problem I have with this issue is all this raid hate complains about the fact but "can I get the best without doing it" why do you need the "best" what is the "best"? What are you going to do with the best? As long as you have something to work for to get something better than what you have does whats best at the time matter?
So his problem with the issue is that non-raid players don't want to be secnd-class citizens in the game; his response to a non-raider wanting access to the best gear is the condescending "What are you going to do with the best?" I think it's pretty clear that by second-class citizens he means something like 'not as far behind raiders as pre-TBC WOW and not stuck with as little content as in old EQ' and not what most of us would mean.
It really depends but my prediction is it all depends on both releases.
The one realed good while other one badly will win.
If both releasees go technically badly:
AoC comes out, people start to whine, some loyal community helps to point out the mistakes. By the time WAR comes out AoC is fixed (funcom is OK at fixing, ive played AO for quite the long time). People go to WAR but well.. they can choose betweeen running AoC or broken WAr they will choose AoC.
If both go out well, AoC will gain about 2/3 of the undecided MMO community, but the half of that and the rest will flee to the famed WAR. So in my opinion: AoC: 250k suscribers WAR: 500k WoW: 6mil.
Other games will not be so good, especially the so hyped darkfall which has a potential of becoming ruled by 1 guild who slay all noobs and then no one will play.
Now, i hate WoW, but i have to admit it rules.
Originally posted by nethaniah
Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Pantastic
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
[quote from developer]"This all comes down to the statement "No, non raiding end game players are not second class citizens in Age of Conan""
And in the same post, the exact same developer said
The problem I have with this issue is all this raid hate complains about the fact but "can I get the best without doing it" why do you need the "best" what is the "best"? What are you going to do with the best? As long as you have something to work for to get something better than what you have does whats best at the time matter?
So his problem with the issue is that non-raid players don't want to be secnd-class citizens in the game; his response to a non-raider wanting access to the best gear is the condescending "What are you going to do with the best?" I think it's pretty clear that by second-class citizens he means something like 'not as far behind raiders as pre-TBC WOW and not stuck with as little content as in old EQ' and not what most of us would mean.
There you go again getting all confused.
Read the first quote you put up, now read the the first line in your response. They aren't the same.
"Are not second class citizens" = in your eyes "Don't want to be secnd-class citizens"
He is speaking rhetorically, just trying to understand about - "the best" - Why do you need it? What is it? What are you going to do with it? he askes. Because ppl like you pick apart his words so much but offer nothing about your hidden agenda in the first place. You lack the quality to properly explain your point so he can address it accordingly to the best of his ability.....
People who like to Raid, can get the BEST stuff for what they like doing
People who like to PvP can get the BEST stuff for what they like doing.
Crafters can enhance items for the PvE'er to give them "the best" for what they like doing.
No one item obtained in any of these areas is quintessentially better that another item, each have been designed to be the "best" in their category / area. There is no overall supreme item. This caters for all types of player.
So do you understand that the game is catering for three main types of players in actual fact.
For the different things that people like to do there are options in line for that specific thing.
There is no "Uber Sword of Conan" that raiders can get that will own (be the best) when used in PvP or PvE situation only in a Raid situtation will this be the best.
Same thing goes when the instance is switched around for the other types.
He did not mention any other games in there - only you did, probably why your more confused, coupled with you in your infanant wisdom deciding to pick his words apart, spit them out, mess them up, reasemble and then say "hey this don't make sense?" If you was truly interested in the game you would delve a little deeper and read everything he has said on the issue. Because he has pretty much been saying the dam thing for 2 years now.
The point is in Age of Conan you aren't "forced" to do something you don't like just to be able to get the "best" items.
If you don't like raiding then you aren't forced to do it to get a good drop because said drop is of only real benefit to the raider - which is something that shouldn't bother you because you dont like raiding right! (as an example)
This refers to the original quote at the very top. He could of easily have said "raiders" "crafters" "PvP" or "PvE" players are not second class citizens.
Originally posted by AmazingAvery "Are not second class citizens" = in your eyes "Don't want to be secnd-class citizens"
I have no idea where you got the idea that that was what I was trying to say, it's not in the words I wrote. What I am saying is that "developer questioning why one group of people even desire not to be second class citizens" casts doubt on the same developer's claim that they won't be. Why does he have a problem with people trying to find out whether non-raiders will be second-class citizens if the game really isn't designed that way?
He is speaking rhetorically, just trying to understand about - "the best" - Why do you need it? What is it? What are you going to do with it? he askes.
And by asking the question of non-raiders but not of raiders, he says an awful lot about his attitude towards non-raiders. I have yet to see a single quote where he poses a similar question to raiders, he even states that raiders will raid as long as their rewards are better than those non-raiders get even by a little bit, which fits right into the pattern.
Because ppl like you pick apart his words so much but offer nothing about your hidden agenda in the first place.
Exactly what hidden agenda are you talking about? I haven't been making a secret of my opinion of raiding and raid culture.
People who like to Raid, can get the BEST stuff for what they like doing People who like to PvP can get the BEST stuff for what they like doing.
So what about non-raid PVE, which I specifically asked about in the thread you pulled the dev quote from?
He did not mention any other games in there - only you did, probably why your more confused,
I never claimed that he did, it appears that you're the one confused. I used other games as an example, I never said that he mentioned them.
coupled with you in your infanant wisdom deciding to pick his words apart, spit them out, mess them up, reasemble and then say "hey this don't make sense?"
What exactly did I 'mess up' or 'reasemble' in his words? I quoted 3 sentences of his exactly as he wrote them. You're just making up accusations against me instead of engaging in real discussion.
I would go with AoC because it's gonna be alot differant than most MMO's currently out there. If you play WoW your not going to want to play warhammer because they are so similar. Then again if u focus on PvP mainly then maybe warhammer is more for you. AoC looks like it has some awsome PvP features but is more balanced with PvE then warhammer. Really depends on what you'd like to do in the game and what type of graphics you like etc...
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Pantastic
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
"Are not second class citizens" = in your eyes "Don't want to be secnd-class citizens"
I have no idea where you got the idea that that was what I was trying to say, it's not in the words I wrote. What I am saying is that "developer questioning why one group of people even desire not to be second class citizens" casts doubt on the same developer's claim that they won't be. Why does he have a problem with people trying to find out whether non-raiders will be second-class citizens if the game really isn't designed that way?
He is speaking rhetorically, just trying to understand about - "the best" - Why do you need it? What is it? What are you going to do with it? he askes.
And by asking the question of non-raiders but not of raiders, he says an awful lot about his attitude towards non-raiders. I have yet to see a single quote where he poses a similar question to raiders, he even states that raiders will raid as long as their rewards are better than those non-raiders get even by a little bit, which fits right into the pattern.
Because ppl like you pick apart his words so much but offer nothing about your hidden agenda in the first place.
Exactly what hidden agenda are you talking about? I haven't been making a secret of my opinion of raiding and raid culture.
People who like to Raid, can get the BEST stuff for what they like doing
People who like to PvP can get the BEST stuff for what they like doing.
So what about non-raid PVE, which I specifically asked about in the thread you pulled the dev quote from?
He did not mention any other games in there - only you did, probably why your more confused,
I never claimed that he did, it appears that you're the one confused. I used other games as an example, I never said that he mentioned them.
coupled with you in your infanant wisdom deciding to pick his words apart, spit them out, mess them up, reasemble and then say "hey this don't make sense?"
What exactly did I 'mess up' or 'reasemble' in his words? I quoted 3 sentences of his exactly as he wrote them. You're just making up accusations against me instead of engaging in real discussion.
Ok look, I apologise if the words I string along seem hostile in any way. I don't want to argue in any way and never intended it that way.
The first line of your response compared to the first quote IS different.
He didn't question or state that people desire to be second class citizens, that is drawn from your own conclusions - i disagree.
"with people trying to find out whether non-raiders will be second-class citizens" - He hasn't got a problem with this he has answered it. Thats what I was trying to point out from my perspective. Non Raid PvE players can get items that are good thru their own adventures or items enchanced by crafters that do the job in a non raid PvE environment better than say a PvP sword or a Weapon aimed specifically at raider.
I felt that you quoted him properly but your definition of the quote was different from his intended meaning.
I haven't got a problem discussing this with you at all, but I think maybe you should try asking him in his Q&A thread - exactly what you are trying to get at - all be if possible right to the point.
I think that you just want to know one particular thing in relation to AoC, I don't think I can answer it any clearer that previously mentioned. Im sorry.
Anyway, I think it is good that these questions are asked.
I'm trying both games but I'm by far more impressed by what AoC has to offer in a full PvP enviorment than what WAR has to offer with it's RvR, 2 sides, with goals similar to an FPS.
I think both will do okay, but neither will blow away previous mmo'ing as last gen suckiness. Vanguard was suppose to do that and look how that turned out.
Warhammer will continue the WoW/Lotro franchise and pull in those players into a been there done into a mix of far to many pve quests and wow/daoc optional RvR
Age of conan is gonna pull off some Risk your life nonsense with their supposedly next gen combat *looks like Risk your life combat to me so im not overally excited* but still it'll be somthing diffrent.
Who knows, I dont like counting my chickens before they've hatched, I wont be surprised though if both dont do as well as people flame constantly they will.
Let's face it, both game will be 2nd rate MMORPG that will have its hype in first few month top and then lose subscribers, I think we should just leave mmorpg and rpg genera to Asian devs, they know what they are doing NA and Eruope dev should just stay with fps and rts games. Next real huge MMORPG: AION so until then i guess either of these games could be good "practice targets"
AoC will have hundreds of thousands of subscribers..Warhammer might get into the millions if it's marketed correctly.
You heard it here folks....just remember the name.
Both games will prove to be VERY next gen (unlike the last posters opinion) and will be a fresh breath of air compared with the boring monotonous gameplay that plagues WoW, VG, EQ2, and many other current MMO's. They have had the balls to innovate in a stale MMO market, and I give both development teams full credit for that feat- many other companies like Sigil bitched out....
Enjoy playing with the 8 year olds on X Box. Wish I could see the faces of you all when you get in a huge PVP battle and your graphics card says NO!
I'm failing to see the validity in this statement. The only other MMO to my knowledge to cross into the console realm is FFXI, which from my own experiences has the best community currently in any MMO. The same warped logic could be applied against you by saying the WAR will have a lower maturity rating on the box. We both know that it won't necessarily be the case, so let's stop with the ignorant blanket statements which can't be backed up by facts.
In my oppinion it all depends on the AoC combat system. If it is really fast in response and accurate and it doesn't get repetitive over time, it can be a great succes. I doubt they will manage that honestly, I think it's all hype, but I hope I'm wrong.
age of conan is the best and i dont have to say why cus the name alone holds a great standing with all that know conan. its freaking conan. now gimmie some coco puffs
-AoC (along with a throng of other MMO's including WoW) is a PvE-oriented game
As much as people can say that AoC will have this and that PvP stuff, Funcom clearly stated that AoC's endgame is PvE raiding. Killing trash packs and bosses for hours. No thanks, I had enough of that in WoW and I can continue it for that.
WAR however is stressing the RvR system and Mythic states that best rewards will come from doing PvP. This focus is enough to make me think that they'll balance classes and everything else around PvP. "Oh but this will affect class X's raid DPS" will be at best a secondary consideration. And as the best rewards come from PvP, people won't be playing it because they want to increase their raid DPS with 'free epixxx'.
So I think that anybody who likes PvP more than PvE raiding will flock to WAR if they know both games' endgame is about. Endgame is everything.
age of conan is the best and i dont have to say why cus the name alone holds a great standing with all that know conan. its freaking conan. now gimmie some coco puffs
WoW didnt know the Kiddie WoW crowd were fans of Cohan
And necroing a old topic is wrong....ok.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
AOC has some bad texturing and the lag i've seen in demonstration videos when you attack more than one opponent is discouraging.
why u think they delay the game till next yr? AoC is way overhyped.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Battlekruse
For me, their disparity is simple and apparent:
- WAR is a PvP-oriented game
-AoC (along with a throng of other MMO's including WoW) is a PvE-oriented game
As much as people can say that AoC will have this and that PvP stuff, Funcom clearly stated that AoC's endgame is PvE raiding. Killing trash packs and bosses for hours. No thanks, I had enough of that in WoW and I can continue it for that.
WAR however is stressing the RvR system and Mythic states that best rewards will come from doing PvP. This focus is enough to make me think that they'll balance classes and everything else around PvP. "Oh but this will affect class X's raid DPS" will be at best a secondary consideration. And as the best rewards come from PvP, people won't be playing it because they want to increase their raid DPS with 'free epixxx'.
So I think that anybody who likes PvP more than PvE raiding will flock to WAR if they know both games' endgame is about. Endgame is everything.
For those that like to PvP in AoC the rewards are there for that, for those people that like to raid, raid rewards are there for those type. AoC caters for all types of player with rewards coming from the thing you love to do the best. Its a shame that Mythic is limiting this to just PvP, as you state endgame is everything in your opinion, it clearly won't appeal to the masses for long.
Funcom have never clearly stated that PvE end game is raiding; thing to do once max level has been attained as an example are:
Looking after and maintaining BattleKeeps, Towers, Druken Brawling and PvE cities, not to mention Crafting and Raiding for those that enjoy them. On the contrary Warhammer Online offers you repetitive action over and over the game is going to get boring really fast. Infact I bet half the population leave after 6 months because of this. In a game that hardly offers any PvE support there wont be much to do at all and the so called "Epic" fights look like a turn based 90's game - can I say Lack Of Action? Warhammer got a delay of 8 months to fix a starting area, looks like they need to fix alot more!
Originally posted by METALDRAG0N
AOC has some bad texturing and the lag i've seen in demonstration videos when you attack more than one opponent is discouraging.
Warhammer online has giants walking in mid air: can you see the sliding?!!
The melee weapon effects look plain nasty. No collision detection at all.
Did they hire school kids to do the sound effects in warhammer?
Did you see the laggy showing of war at gamesday?
The terrain is flat, uninspired, unimaginative, totally lacking creativity - if warhammer is supposed to be about PvP, then how come you can't use the terrain to your advantage? Big goofy floating names above your head.
Very Basic fighting action, simple so you don't really have to think, click then button mash your way to victory. The combat looks slow, when the player runs its like 1 step = 3 meters. You will get bunny hopping kids - even Auto Target wont save you. Where's the lighting? Nevermind, I don't think it will help. The instancing in war will ruin it, its going to be small scale battles.
With EA down $200 - $250 million - this game will probably release in bad shape, because we all know how EA like their money.
-AoC (along with a throng of other MMO's including WoW) is a PvE-oriented game
As much as people can say that AoC will have this and that PvP stuff, Funcom clearly stated that AoC's endgame is PvE raiding. Killing trash packs and bosses for hours. No thanks, I had enough of that in WoW and I can continue it for that.
WAR however is stressing the RvR system and Mythic states that best rewards will come from doing PvP. This focus is enough to make me think that they'll balance classes and everything else around PvP. "Oh but this will affect class X's raid DPS" will be at best a secondary consideration. And as the best rewards come from PvP, people won't be playing it because they want to increase their raid DPS with 'free epixxx'.
So I think that anybody who likes PvP more than PvE raiding will flock to WAR if they know both games' endgame is about. Endgame is everything.
For those that like to PvP in AoC the rewards are there for that, for those people that like to raid, raid rewards are there for those type. AoC caters for all types of player with rewards coming from the thing you love to do the best. Its a shame that Mythic is limiting this to just PvP, as you state endgame is everything in your opinion, it clearly won't appeal to the masses for long.
Funcom have never clearly stated that PvE end game is raiding; thing to do once max level has been attained as an example are:
Looking after and maintaining BattleKeeps, Towers, Druken Brawling and PvE cities, not to mention Crafting and Raiding for those that enjoy them. On the contrary Warhammer Online offers you repetitive action over and over the game is going to get boring really fast. Infact I bet half the population leave after 6 months because of this. In a game that hardly offers any PvE support there wont be much to do at all and the so called "Epic" fights look like a turn based 90's game - can I say Lack Of Action? Warhammer got a delay of 8 months to fix a starting area, looks like they need to fix alot more!
Originally posted by METALDRAG0N
AOC has some bad texturing and the lag i've seen in demonstration videos when you attack more than one opponent is discouraging.
Warhammer online has giants walking in mid air: can you see the sliding?!!
The melee weapon effects look plain nasty. No collision detection at all.
Did they hire school kids to do the sound effects in warhammer?
Did you see the laggy showing of war at gamesday?
The terrain is flat, uninspired, unimaginative, totally lacking creativity - if warhammer is supposed to be about PvP, then how come you can't use the terrain to your advantage? Big goofy floating names above your head.
Very Basic fighting action, simple so you don't really have to think, click then button mash your way to victory. The combat looks slow, when the player runs its like 1 step = 3 meters. You will get bunny hopping kids - even Auto Target wont save you. Where's the lighting? Nevermind, I don't think it will help. The instancing in war will ruin it, its going to be small scale battles.
With EA down $200 - $250 million - this game will probably release in bad shape, because we all know how EA like their money.
Wow, flame much?
There is one thing I dont understand. It's the "How come you can't use your terrain to your advantage?" part.
They've already shown choke points, and many leveled areas of the world, along with cities that will be fought in. And I believe there is a video of a couple bright wizards raining fire down on some unsuspecting people and then watching them scatter....
You're trashing of WAR is laughable. I guess you have to unleash some of that anger from AoC's recent announcement that their combat system isn't right after 2+ years of development. Enjoy the waiting game.
EDIT: Just going to link some of this uninspired "Flat" terrain.
Man I've never seen such uninspired flat terrain in my life.... You really do know what you're talking about there.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
Comments
Oh and AmazingAvery don't waste your time trying to explain to these guys, they are misinformed on purpose.
I think its good to get the true word out for both games. Both games have decent company reputations behind them, both have decent publishers too. But the "if's" "but's" "maybe's" about how it all comes together are all over the place - one thing I hate is really bad SPECULATION. I just try and put the word out there for the game that appeals to me most. I have only time to play one, AoC is due out in just over 4 months, WAR was Q1 '08 last I saw, I would like for people to see what AoC is all about and get interested as I am thats all. There is plenty to get excited about as more and more info is released and a summer full of game expo's.
__________
Crom's Balls
And in the same post, the exact same developer said
So his problem with the issue is that non-raid players don't want to be secnd-class citizens in the game; his response to a non-raider wanting access to the best gear is the condescending "What are you going to do with the best?" I think it's pretty clear that by second-class citizens he means something like 'not as far behind raiders as pre-TBC WOW and not stuck with as little content as in old EQ' and not what most of us would mean.
It really depends but my prediction is it all depends on both releases.
The one realed good while other one badly will win.
If both releasees go technically badly:
AoC comes out, people start to whine, some loyal community helps to point out the mistakes. By the time WAR comes out AoC is fixed (funcom is OK at fixing, ive played AO for quite the long time). People go to WAR but well.. they can choose betweeen running AoC or broken WAr they will choose AoC.
If both go out well, AoC will gain about 2/3 of the undecided MMO community, but the half of that and the rest will flee to the famed WAR. So in my opinion: AoC: 250k suscribers WAR: 500k WoW: 6mil.
Other games will not be so good, especially the so hyped darkfall which has a potential of becoming ruled by 1 guild who slay all noobs and then no one will play.
Now, i hate WoW, but i have to admit it rules.
And in the same post, the exact same developer said
So his problem with the issue is that non-raid players don't want to be secnd-class citizens in the game; his response to a non-raider wanting access to the best gear is the condescending "What are you going to do with the best?" I think it's pretty clear that by second-class citizens he means something like 'not as far behind raiders as pre-TBC WOW and not stuck with as little content as in old EQ' and not what most of us would mean.
There you go again getting all confused.
Read the first quote you put up, now read the the first line in your response. They aren't the same.
"Are not second class citizens" = in your eyes "Don't want to be secnd-class citizens"
He is speaking rhetorically, just trying to understand about - "the best" - Why do you need it? What is it? What are you going to do with it? he askes. Because ppl like you pick apart his words so much but offer nothing about your hidden agenda in the first place. You lack the quality to properly explain your point so he can address it accordingly to the best of his ability.....
People who like to Raid, can get the BEST stuff for what they like doing
People who like to PvP can get the BEST stuff for what they like doing.
Crafters can enhance items for the PvE'er to give them "the best" for what they like doing.
No one item obtained in any of these areas is quintessentially better that another item, each have been designed to be the "best" in their category / area. There is no overall supreme item. This caters for all types of player.
So do you understand that the game is catering for three main types of players in actual fact.
For the different things that people like to do there are options in line for that specific thing.
There is no "Uber Sword of Conan" that raiders can get that will own (be the best) when used in PvP or PvE situation only in a Raid situtation will this be the best.
Same thing goes when the instance is switched around for the other types.
He did not mention any other games in there - only you did, probably why your more confused, coupled with you in your infanant wisdom deciding to pick his words apart, spit them out, mess them up, reasemble and then say "hey this don't make sense?" If you was truly interested in the game you would delve a little deeper and read everything he has said on the issue. Because he has pretty much been saying the dam thing for 2 years now.
The point is in Age of Conan you aren't "forced" to do something you don't like just to be able to get the "best" items.
If you don't like raiding then you aren't forced to do it to get a good drop because said drop is of only real benefit to the raider - which is something that shouldn't bother you because you dont like raiding right! (as an example)
This refers to the original quote at the very top. He could of easily have said "raiders" "crafters" "PvP" or "PvE" players are not second class citizens.
I have no idea where you got the idea that that was what I was trying to say, it's not in the words I wrote. What I am saying is that "developer questioning why one group of people even desire not to be second class citizens" casts doubt on the same developer's claim that they won't be. Why does he have a problem with people trying to find out whether non-raiders will be second-class citizens if the game really isn't designed that way?
And by asking the question of non-raiders but not of raiders, he says an awful lot about his attitude towards non-raiders. I have yet to see a single quote where he poses a similar question to raiders, he even states that raiders will raid as long as their rewards are better than those non-raiders get even by a little bit, which fits right into the pattern.
Exactly what hidden agenda are you talking about? I haven't been making a secret of my opinion of raiding and raid culture.
So what about non-raid PVE, which I specifically asked about in the thread you pulled the dev quote from?
I never claimed that he did, it appears that you're the one confused. I used other games as an example, I never said that he mentioned them.
What exactly did I 'mess up' or 'reasemble' in his words? I quoted 3 sentences of his exactly as he wrote them. You're just making up accusations against me instead of engaging in real discussion.
I have no idea where you got the idea that that was what I was trying to say, it's not in the words I wrote. What I am saying is that "developer questioning why one group of people even desire not to be second class citizens" casts doubt on the same developer's claim that they won't be. Why does he have a problem with people trying to find out whether non-raiders will be second-class citizens if the game really isn't designed that way?
And by asking the question of non-raiders but not of raiders, he says an awful lot about his attitude towards non-raiders. I have yet to see a single quote where he poses a similar question to raiders, he even states that raiders will raid as long as their rewards are better than those non-raiders get even by a little bit, which fits right into the pattern.
Exactly what hidden agenda are you talking about? I haven't been making a secret of my opinion of raiding and raid culture.
So what about non-raid PVE, which I specifically asked about in the thread you pulled the dev quote from?
I never claimed that he did, it appears that you're the one confused. I used other games as an example, I never said that he mentioned them.
What exactly did I 'mess up' or 'reasemble' in his words? I quoted 3 sentences of his exactly as he wrote them. You're just making up accusations against me instead of engaging in real discussion.
Ok look, I apologise if the words I string along seem hostile in any way. I don't want to argue in any way and never intended it that way.
The first line of your response compared to the first quote IS different.
He didn't question or state that people desire to be second class citizens, that is drawn from your own conclusions - i disagree.
"with people trying to find out whether non-raiders will be second-class citizens" - He hasn't got a problem with this he has answered it. Thats what I was trying to point out from my perspective. Non Raid PvE players can get items that are good thru their own adventures or items enchanced by crafters that do the job in a non raid PvE environment better than say a PvP sword or a Weapon aimed specifically at raider.
I felt that you quoted him properly but your definition of the quote was different from his intended meaning.
I haven't got a problem discussing this with you at all, but I think maybe you should try asking him in his Q&A thread - exactly what you are trying to get at - all be if possible right to the point.
Im guessing you hate raids there is some good quotes here: http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=24625
I think that you just want to know one particular thing in relation to AoC, I don't think I can answer it any clearer that previously mentioned. Im sorry.
Anyway, I think it is good that these questions are asked.
THIS is completly useless if I can blow away ALL your arguments with a SINGLE video.
Wtf can't post links here or what? Copy & paste that in your WB. All footage is from in-game
http://video.google.es/videoplay?docid=8217196166555135084&q=Age+of+Conan&total=535&start=0&num=10&so=1&type=search&plindex=1
I'm trying both games but I'm by far more impressed by what AoC has to offer in a full PvP enviorment than what WAR has to offer with it's RvR, 2 sides, with goals similar to an FPS.
Hey its fun to stereotype isn't it
I for one enjoyed upgrading from a 486 lol. No point being left behind in the dirt. Here is a nice discussion for you: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/136042
I think both will do okay, but neither will blow away previous mmo'ing as last gen suckiness. Vanguard was suppose to do that and look how that turned out.
Warhammer will continue the WoW/Lotro franchise and pull in those players into a been there done into a mix of far to many pve quests and wow/daoc optional RvR
Age of conan is gonna pull off some Risk your life nonsense with their supposedly next gen combat *looks like Risk your life combat to me so im not overally excited* but still it'll be somthing diffrent.
Who knows, I dont like counting my chickens before they've hatched, I wont be surprised though if both dont do as well as people flame constantly they will.
Still waiting on a good sandbox mmo here
wow, this thread still going...
People really like flame threads X)
*adds more oil to it
Let's face it, both game will be 2nd rate MMORPG that will have its hype in first few month top and then lose subscribers, I think we should just leave mmorpg and rpg genera to Asian devs, they know what they are doing
NA and Eruope dev should just stay with fps and rts games. Next real huge MMORPG: AION so until then i guess either of these games could be good "practice targets"
AoC will have hundreds of thousands of subscribers..Warhammer might get into the millions if it's marketed correctly.
You heard it here folks....just remember the name.
Both games will prove to be VERY next gen (unlike the last posters opinion) and will be a fresh breath of air compared with the boring monotonous gameplay that plagues WoW, VG, EQ2, and many other current MMO's. They have had the balls to innovate in a stale MMO market, and I give both development teams full credit for that feat- many other companies like Sigil bitched out....
sorry found this had to be shown!
Say No To Orc's !!!!
I'm failing to see the validity in this statement. The only other MMO to my knowledge to cross into the console realm is FFXI, which from my own experiences has the best community currently in any MMO. The same warped logic could be applied against you by saying the WAR will have a lower maturity rating on the box. We both know that it won't necessarily be the case, so let's stop with the ignorant blanket statements which can't be backed up by facts.
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In my oppinion it all depends on the AoC combat system. If it is really fast in response and accurate and it doesn't get repetitive over time, it can be a great succes. I doubt they will manage that honestly, I think it's all hype, but I hope I'm wrong.
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For me, their disparity is simple and apparent:
- WAR is a PvP-oriented game
-AoC (along with a throng of other MMO's including WoW) is a PvE-oriented game
As much as people can say that AoC will have this and that PvP stuff, Funcom clearly stated that AoC's endgame is PvE raiding. Killing trash packs and bosses for hours. No thanks, I had enough of that in WoW and I can continue it for that.
WAR however is stressing the RvR system and Mythic states that best rewards will come from doing PvP. This focus is enough to make me think that they'll balance classes and everything else around PvP. "Oh but this will affect class X's raid DPS" will be at best a secondary consideration. And as the best rewards come from PvP, people won't be playing it because they want to increase their raid DPS with 'free epixxx'.
So I think that anybody who likes PvP more than PvE raiding will flock to WAR if they know both games' endgame is about. Endgame is everything.
AOC has some bad texturing and the lag i've seen in demonstration videos when you attack more than one opponent is discouraging.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
And necroing a old topic is wrong....ok.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
why u think they delay the game till next yr? AoC is way overhyped.
For those that like to PvP in AoC the rewards are there for that, for those people that like to raid, raid rewards are there for those type. AoC caters for all types of player with rewards coming from the thing you love to do the best. Its a shame that Mythic is limiting this to just PvP, as you state endgame is everything in your opinion, it clearly won't appeal to the masses for long.
Funcom have never clearly stated that PvE end game is raiding; thing to do once max level has been attained as an example are:
Looking after and maintaining BattleKeeps, Towers, Druken Brawling and PvE cities, not to mention Crafting and Raiding for those that enjoy them. On the contrary Warhammer Online offers you repetitive action over and over the game is going to get boring really fast. Infact I bet half the population leave after 6 months because of this. In a game that hardly offers any PvE support there wont be much to do at all and the so called "Epic" fights look like a turn based 90's game - can I say Lack Of Action? Warhammer got a delay of 8 months to fix a starting area, looks like they need to fix alot more!
Warhammer online has giants walking in mid air: can you see the sliding?!!
http://www.gamespot.com/video/520538/6175528/warhammer-online-age-of-reckoning-gameplay-movie-7
The melee weapon effects look plain nasty. No collision detection at all.
Did they hire school kids to do the sound effects in warhammer?
Did you see the laggy showing of war at gamesday?
The terrain is flat, uninspired, unimaginative, totally lacking creativity - if warhammer is supposed to be about PvP, then how come you can't use the terrain to your advantage? Big goofy floating names above your head.
Very Basic fighting action, simple so you don't really have to think, click then button mash your way to victory. The combat looks slow, when the player runs its like 1 step = 3 meters. You will get bunny hopping kids - even Auto Target wont save you. Where's the lighting? Nevermind, I don't think it will help. The instancing in war will ruin it, its going to be small scale battles.
With EA down $200 - $250 million - this game will probably release in bad shape, because we all know how EA like their money.
bump lol
For those that like to PvP in AoC the rewards are there for that, for those people that like to raid, raid rewards are there for those type. AoC caters for all types of player with rewards coming from the thing you love to do the best. Its a shame that Mythic is limiting this to just PvP, as you state endgame is everything in your opinion, it clearly won't appeal to the masses for long.
Funcom have never clearly stated that PvE end game is raiding; thing to do once max level has been attained as an example are:
Looking after and maintaining BattleKeeps, Towers, Druken Brawling and PvE cities, not to mention Crafting and Raiding for those that enjoy them. On the contrary Warhammer Online offers you repetitive action over and over the game is going to get boring really fast. Infact I bet half the population leave after 6 months because of this. In a game that hardly offers any PvE support there wont be much to do at all and the so called "Epic" fights look like a turn based 90's game - can I say Lack Of Action? Warhammer got a delay of 8 months to fix a starting area, looks like they need to fix alot more!
Warhammer online has giants walking in mid air: can you see the sliding?!!
http://www.gamespot.com/video/520538/6175528/warhammer-online-age-of-reckoning-gameplay-movie-7
The melee weapon effects look plain nasty. No collision detection at all.
Did they hire school kids to do the sound effects in warhammer?
Did you see the laggy showing of war at gamesday?
The terrain is flat, uninspired, unimaginative, totally lacking creativity - if warhammer is supposed to be about PvP, then how come you can't use the terrain to your advantage? Big goofy floating names above your head.
Very Basic fighting action, simple so you don't really have to think, click then button mash your way to victory. The combat looks slow, when the player runs its like 1 step = 3 meters. You will get bunny hopping kids - even Auto Target wont save you. Where's the lighting? Nevermind, I don't think it will help. The instancing in war will ruin it, its going to be small scale battles.
With EA down $200 - $250 million - this game will probably release in bad shape, because we all know how EA like their money.
Wow, flame much?
There is one thing I dont understand. It's the "How come you can't use your terrain to your advantage?" part.
They've already shown choke points, and many leveled areas of the world, along with cities that will be fought in. And I believe there is a video of a couple bright wizards raining fire down on some unsuspecting people and then watching them scatter....
You're trashing of WAR is laughable. I guess you have to unleash some of that anger from AoC's recent announcement that their combat system isn't right after 2+ years of development. Enjoy the waiting game.
EDIT: Just going to link some of this uninspired "Flat" terrain.
Man I've never seen such uninspired flat terrain in my life.... You really do know what you're talking about there.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.