I am excited about AoC but WAR simply looks like the game I have been waiting for a real PvP game that isn't eve. I love the ideas that AoC is striving for and I will give it a shot, but Mythic's RvR is just plain awsome and I can't wait to see what they can do with the Warhammer IP.
Also that hype meter/ favorite games meter is busted anyway thanks to multiple accounts, and fanboys.
oh and no matter how much I wish for it Darkfall isn't happening, just let it go before it becomes another mourning...
I think the fact that AOC will have XBOX subscribers is going to be a turn off for some people. Just my opinion anyways.
Why would it turn off subscribers. Having a 360 and a PC i would say if anything it will help it out. Now people who want a Mature mmo have a 360 but no PC can get AoC for the xbox and play with people on the computer.
Aw crap, not this again. Hype means absolutely squat, especcially on this site. All that is accomplished by this thread is making AoC fans look like a bunch of whiners.
Originally posted by Goldknyght
Originally posted by defenestrate
I think the fact that AOC will have XBOX subscribers is going to be a turn off for some people. Just my opinion anyways.
Why would it turn off subscribers. Having a 360 and a PC i would say if anything it will help it out. Now people who want a Mature mmo have a 360 but no PC can get AoC for the xbox and play with people on the computer.
A.) A significant portion of PC players do not at alll wish to play with 360 players, due to a percieved lack of maturity among that group.
B.) Most of the games designed for cross platform ended up ruining the PC version tyo allow for functionality with a controller.
However: most of the servers will be either PC or 360 only, and the PC version of the game is not being changed at all to accomodate the 360 release, so both arguments are indeed nullified.
Originally posted by Xennith
if the best thing you can say about AoC is that "WAR is a WoW clone" then im going to give it the hype it deserves. 0.
a game stands on its own merits, not by you insulting its competition. think of something possitive to say about AoC and then people might get more interested.
Agreed, in principle. Its a good thing the rest of us can think of plenty to say about it.
as far as i can tell, AoC is an ambitious game that might remake the genre, but is more likely to fail to live up to it. its made by FC for a start, ive not seen anything that makes me think that the "revolutionary new combat system" where you bunny hop around and mash direction keys instead of clicking a target and pressing 1-2-3-4 is going to be any better, infact it looks like combat is going to be shallower and get dull quickly. i might be wrong on this, but it really does look like a console game, and those just arent my thing.
A.) Bunny hopping is not possible thanks to a stamina bar and recovery time after jumps. B.) A button masher will get his ass kicked every time.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
Resurrect this post a few weeks after the game actually comes out. Its going to be Vanguard all over again...
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Age of Conan is under hyped on this site. It has much more to offer on almost all aspects of gameplay with comparison to other MMORPGs, including Warhammer, which is just going to try to take WoW with better graphics. New things come onto AoC everyday, and Warhammer just releases nothing that perks any New interest, just interests of gamers who want the same thing over and over again. Obviously this is my opinion, so i guess the fan base of this site under hypes this game cuz theyll all wow gamers... this shud be at least an 8 or an 8.5 on hype imho
You gave us your opinion. There is nothing wrong with having an opinion at all, but there is no reason the tell others to change theirs. For example, I'm not looking forward to AoC at all and I wouldn't hype it for such rate. Hypes and Rates are based on peoples opinions.
The hype ratings here dont mean anything anyway so I wouldnt base my judgemnt based on a hype rating I read on this site or any other site for that matter.
LOTR is on top of the ratings now and in my opinion that is definately not the case, thats just an example of how the hype meter doesnt mean jack shit.
Its same when someone tells you about a movie they seen and how horrible or good it was and when you see it for your self you find out that that wasnt the case.
Its like watching the news and believing everything they say, if you do god help you
A man dies daily, only to be reborn in the morning, bigger, better and wiser.
-Playing AoC -Playing WoW -Retired- SWG -Retired- EVE -Retired- LotR
Computer (- Phenom 9600 Black Edition @ 2.81 Ghz (Quad Core CPU)- Gigabyte MA790FX-DS5 - 4 Gigs of PC 8500 ram (1066)- EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS PCI Express 2.0 - WD 500GB 7500RPM - Zalman CPU cooler (air cooled) - 24" Widescreen 1080P HD display).
Actually the best thing to happen to ANY MMO is being underhyped, then when it comes out it surprises everyone. Then it gets rave reviews and BAM! Instant hit.
I'd rather not play with the overconsuming idiots of fresh games. I'd rather not swim through the "GradeSchool MMOers" of WoW. Its NOT a family game so that kills 50% of the WoW base. It "IS" pvp, that kills another 40% of the player base. What were left with is a good bloody game that is delivering stuff to us MONTHS before release.
I also agree with an earlier poster about not "too" much hype. I agree. I'm sure i'm going to be let down as it is, but it sure looks good!
i think it's got the proper rating, honestly the #'s don't mean crap, there are a lot of good and interesting MMO's coming out over the next year and according to this site Age of Conan is one of the ones people are looking forward to the most. sure there are probably some douchebags who out of spite or whatever reason have rated it with the absolute lowest you can. but even with that said, it is still one of the most looked forward to.
Age of Conan is under hyped on this site. It has much more to offer on almost all aspects of gameplay with comparison to other MMORPGs, including Warhammer, which is just going to try to take WoW with better graphics. New things come onto AoC everyday, and Warhammer just releases nothing that perks any New interest, just interests of gamers who want the same thing over and over again. Obviously this is my opinion, so i guess the fan base of this site under hypes this game cuz theyll all wow gamers... this shud be at least an 8 or an 8.5 on hype imho
Yep. I gave the hype it deserves, which is opposite of what you suggested.
Age of Conan is under hyped on this site. It has much more to offer on almost all aspects of gameplay with comparison to other MMORPGs, including Warhammer, which is just going to try to take WoW with better graphics. New things come onto AoC everyday, and Warhammer just releases nothing that perks any New interest, just interests of gamers who want the same thing over and over again. Obviously this is my opinion, so i guess the fan base of this site under hypes this game cuz theyll all wow gamers... this shud be at least an 8 or an 8.5 on hype imho
How opinionated if you are an example of the games playerbase then id rather not go there. WoW is very good tho it tries to be different and is based on the Tabletopgame of Warhammer which i do love. Also WoW copied Warhammer which Blizzard acknoleges as testified by the way they settled out of court that case Games Workshop did based on copyright infringments.
Here is some Age of Conan hype! Hype 1. Item based Hype 2. Gear based Hype 3. Level based Hype 4. PvP restriction based <----- Lol, its true! Hype 5. Quest based I wish dudes would stop playing MMO's made for girls and then calling themselves PvPers. Very, very sad... please grow some rocks.
QFT
if you want a PvP game that is 'SKILL' based, watch Darkfall when and HOPE the actual beta comes out this year :P
and warhamemr is made by mythic the pvp cant go toooo wrong :P. granted DaoC had a lot of stuff wrong but it was still fun as hell to play. hah.
I've looked into both games and my money's on WAR. AoC launches on 30 October and we still have very little hard info on it - a pattern followed by other massively hyped games on this site that turned out to be crap.
Also, a lot of AoC's features seem to scream "WE WANT ULTRA HARDCORE TEENAGE MALES TO PLAY OUR GAME RAAR!" to me, which isn't the type of people I really enjoy playing with in an MMO setting.
AoC has a lot of implosion potential - it's promised a lot and so far delivered nothing. Spellweaving looks interesting but where is the gameplay footage, or even an in-depth explanation? Keep battles look interesting too, but will one or two mega-guilds dominate every server by sheer force of numbers? They've already said raiding will be part of the end-game - will it cause a huge gear gap that nobody who *doesn't* raid can ever overcome? It has blood, boobies, and twitch-based melee combat, will those factors attract a playerbase that nobody over the age of 20 wants to deal with? Where's the hype? I know tons of people in WoW who signed up for the WAR beta and are ready to switch the moment they can just because they're tired of raiding and then logging into UT2004 to play a decent pvp game.
I'm not saying AOC will be bad, I'm just saying there's a lot of things that can go wrong and doom the game before it even really gets started - it happened to Vanguard, it happened to D&L, it sorta happened to EQ2.. at least with WAR they have to yet to promise something they can't immediately back up with screens & videos and it only looks to be getting better as release day gets closer. Plus I have a job - I can only play 2-3 days a week, WAR's pvp-centric gameplay doesn't look like it will penalize me for that - sure I won't contribute as much to the war effort as the guy next to me who plays every day but being able to participate at all is more than I'm getting out of WoW right now - since I took this new job I can't get into a raid party at all (I used to raid quite a bit pre-TBC), and after being spoiled on DAOC's pvp I refuse to BG or go to the arenas, they're so... bad.. words kinda fail me.
Here is some Age of Conan hype! Hype 1. Item based Hype 2. Gear based Hype 3. Level based Hype 4. PvP restriction based <----- Lol, its true! Hype 5. Quest based I wish dudes would stop playing MMO's made for girls and then calling themselves PvPers. Very, very sad... please grow some rocks.
QFT
if you want a PvP game that is 'SKILL' based, watch Darkfall when and HOPE the actual beta comes out this year :P
and warhamemr is made by mythic the pvp cant go toooo wrong :P. granted DaoC had a lot of stuff wrong but it was still fun as hell to play. hah.
Oh yes! Im feening bad for the drug called Darkfall Online . I hate to say it again , Warhammer has the same hype I gave Age of Conan and then some. In a way im glad for wuss MMO's, it keeps all the sissys in one spot just like fly paper.
AoC and WAR are the two top MMORPGs that I am following and I am interested in both but where are the articles on websites and magazines with people playing Age of Conan and talking about the PvP mechanics and the character classes and the zones? There are none because Funcom isn't letting people have access like Mythic is with WAR.
Funcom needs to stop acting like the previous generation of developers who never divulged information about their game during development and kept their community in the dark, only feeding them the occasional article or two.
Funcom needs to get some press conferences going! They need to let people PLAY the game and post about their experiences! Those sorts of things are worth a dozen interviews with developers who just keep on saying the same things we've already heard.
Until then Mythic will continue to generate more and more hype for WAR because that's what happens when you talk to the community, provide them lots of juicy information and LET THEM PLAY THE GAME.
x_rast_x brings up a very good point. We've heard lots of talk from Funcom so far, but where is the meat to back it up? We've seen videos of people playing WAR and enjoying themselves, Funcom needs to start doing the same and show that people have FUN while playing their game. Even if they're different players than those who might like WAR, Funcom needs to show them enjoying the game.
If we don't start seeing press conferences where outsiders are allow access to the game, then we're looking at either a push-back on the release date at the very least, or more dire possibilites at the worst.
FPS or console style gameplay does not appeal to me in the least. I'll take WAR over AoC anyday. I have both an Xbox 360 and a PC and there is a reason why I play PC games much more often. Twitch based gameplay gets on my nerves if played in doeses longer than 30 minutes.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Lol this thread has turned out to be an AoC vs WAR fans, and honestly there is no way to prove that WAR or AoC wont have the little spoiled American kids acting like they are tough shits, the fact that AoC is rated M would make you think that the community will be more mature but seriously when did the M rating ever stop the little kids from buying the game? Hell if anything thats advertisement, so for now I would hold up on judging both games because they arent out yet and simply all the arguments are opinions and not facts.
A man dies daily, only to be reborn in the morning, bigger, better and wiser.
-Playing AoC -Playing WoW -Retired- SWG -Retired- EVE -Retired- LotR
Computer (- Phenom 9600 Black Edition @ 2.81 Ghz (Quad Core CPU)- Gigabyte MA790FX-DS5 - 4 Gigs of PC 8500 ram (1066)- EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS PCI Express 2.0 - WD 500GB 7500RPM - Zalman CPU cooler (air cooled) - 24" Widescreen 1080P HD display).
I think AoC is getting it much deserved hype right now.
For starters, all the Sigil Vanboi's are getting their moneys worth, eating the feet they stuck in their mouths about comparing AoC and Vanguard..that was a big mistake, and theres no way AoC cannot be a success when it launches- at least 2-3 times moreso than Vanguard.
But its ranking on here, their large site community, as well as the times you see it advertised, talked about in the industry, etc., and I think AoC gets plenty of hype.
In the end thats one of the reasons the Seraphim will be there hacking off heads- we see the raw potential for the best fantasy MMO to date, and we wouldnt miss it for the world.
Here is some Age of Conan hype! Hype 1. Item based Hype 2. Gear based Hype 3. Level based Hype 4. PvP restriction based <----- Lol, its true! Hype 5. Quest based I wish dudes would stop playing MMO's made for girls and then calling themselves PvPers. Very, very sad... please grow some rocks.
QFT bro I've been saying it all along its yet another Everquest clone reskinned with 1 or 2 new features
Age of Conan is under hyped on this site. It has much more to offer on almost all aspects of gameplay with comparison to other MMORPGs, including Warhammer, which is just going to try to take WoW with better graphics. New things come onto AoC everyday, and Warhammer just releases nothing that perks any New interest, just interests of gamers who want the same thing over and over again. Obviously this is my opinion, so i guess the fan base of this site under hypes this game cuz theyll all wow gamers... this shud be at least an 8 or an 8.5 on hype imho
I've been watching this site for years, and here is how things work:
Released games (that are good) score in the 8+ range
Soon-to-be-released games (that are probably good) score in the high 6's or around 7. Any score above 7 is incredible.
When Conan releases, it will likely score an 8.4 or so. But for now, 7.3 is fantastic.
Here is some Age of Conan hype! Hype 1. Item based Hype 2. Gear based Hype 3. Level based Hype 4. PvP restriction based <----- Lol, its true! Hype 5. Quest based I wish dudes would stop playing MMO's made for girls and then calling themselves PvPers. Very, very sad... please grow some rocks.
QFT bro I've been saying it all along its yet another Everquest clone reskinned with 1 or 2 new features
Um.. you can dodge, that makes gear less dependant than anything Warhammer can do aside from giving everyone the same weapon.. Im assuming your war fanboys.
Comments
I am excited about AoC but WAR simply looks like the game I have been waiting for a real PvP game that isn't eve. I love the ideas that AoC is striving for and I will give it a shot, but Mythic's RvR is just plain awsome and I can't wait to see what they can do with the Warhammer IP.
Also that hype meter/ favorite games meter is busted anyway thanks to multiple accounts, and fanboys.
oh and no matter how much I wish for it Darkfall isn't happening, just let it go before it becomes another mourning...
Aw crap, not this again. Hype means absolutely squat, especcially on this site. All that is accomplished by this thread is making AoC fans look like a bunch of whiners.
Why would it turn off subscribers. Having a 360 and a PC i would say if anything it will help it out. Now people who want a Mature mmo have a 360 but no PC can get AoC for the xbox and play with people on the computer.A.) A significant portion of PC players do not at alll wish to play with 360 players, due to a percieved lack of maturity among that group.
B.) Most of the games designed for cross platform ended up ruining the PC version tyo allow for functionality with a controller.
However: most of the servers will be either PC or 360 only, and the PC version of the game is not being changed at all to accomodate the 360 release, so both arguments are indeed nullified.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
You gave us your opinion. There is nothing wrong with having an opinion at all, but there is no reason the tell others to change theirs. For example, I'm not looking forward to AoC at all and I wouldn't hype it for such rate. Hypes and Rates are based on peoples opinions.
LOTR is on top of the ratings now and in my opinion that is definately not the case, thats just an example of how the hype meter doesnt mean jack shit.
Its same when someone tells you about a movie they seen and how horrible or good it was and when you see it for your self you find out that that wasnt the case.
Its like watching the news and believing everything they say, if you do god help you
A man dies daily, only to be reborn in the morning, bigger, better and wiser.
-Playing AoC
-Playing WoW
-Retired- SWG
-Retired- EVE
-Retired- LotR
Computer (- Phenom 9600 Black Edition @ 2.81 Ghz (Quad Core CPU)- Gigabyte MA790FX-DS5 - 4 Gigs of PC 8500 ram (1066)- EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS PCI Express 2.0 - WD 500GB 7500RPM - Zalman CPU cooler (air cooled)
- 24" Widescreen 1080P HD display).
I'd rather not play with the overconsuming idiots of fresh games. I'd rather not swim through the "GradeSchool MMOers" of WoW. Its NOT a family game so that kills 50% of the WoW base. It "IS" pvp, that kills another 40% of the player base. What were left with is a good bloody game that is delivering stuff to us MONTHS before release.
I also agree with an earlier poster about not "too" much hype. I agree. I'm sure i'm going to be let down as it is, but it sure looks good!
Current:EQ2,SWG,Matrix,Planetside
Testing:9Dragons,Dungeon Runners
Veteran:EQ1,CoH/V,WoW,LoTRO,DDO,BoTS
Hype is over-hyped. Does anyone remember the hype VG got before beta?
- Phos
Yep. I gave the hype it deserves, which is opposite of what you suggested.
How opinionated if you are an example of the games playerbase then id rather not go there. WoW is very good tho it tries to be different and is based on the Tabletopgame of Warhammer which i do love. Also WoW copied Warhammer which Blizzard acknoleges as testified by the way they settled out of court that case Games Workshop did based on copyright infringments.
This thread taken with this other active topic shows just how 'Mature' some of the AOC players will be.
They basically want to have female avitars with big boobs so they can 'Roleplay' Naked
Here is some Age of Conan hype!
Hype 1. Item based
Hype 2. Gear based
Hype 3. Level based
Hype 4. PvP restriction based <----- Lol, its true!
Hype 5. Quest based
I wish dudes would stop playing MMO's made for girls and then calling themselves PvPers. Very, very sad... please grow some rocks.
QFT
if you want a PvP game that is 'SKILL' based, watch Darkfall when and HOPE the actual beta comes out this year :P
and warhamemr is made by mythic the pvp cant go toooo wrong :P. granted DaoC had a lot of stuff wrong but it was still fun as hell to play. hah.
I've looked into both games and my money's on WAR. AoC launches on 30 October and we still have very little hard info on it - a pattern followed by other massively hyped games on this site that turned out to be crap.
Also, a lot of AoC's features seem to scream "WE WANT ULTRA HARDCORE TEENAGE MALES TO PLAY OUR GAME RAAR!" to me, which isn't the type of people I really enjoy playing with in an MMO setting.
AoC has a lot of implosion potential - it's promised a lot and so far delivered nothing. Spellweaving looks interesting but where is the gameplay footage, or even an in-depth explanation? Keep battles look interesting too, but will one or two mega-guilds dominate every server by sheer force of numbers? They've already said raiding will be part of the end-game - will it cause a huge gear gap that nobody who *doesn't* raid can ever overcome? It has blood, boobies, and twitch-based melee combat, will those factors attract a playerbase that nobody over the age of 20 wants to deal with? Where's the hype? I know tons of people in WoW who signed up for the WAR beta and are ready to switch the moment they can just because they're tired of raiding and then logging into UT2004 to play a decent pvp game.
I'm not saying AOC will be bad, I'm just saying there's a lot of things that can go wrong and doom the game before it even really gets started - it happened to Vanguard, it happened to D&L, it sorta happened to EQ2.. at least with WAR they have to yet to promise something they can't immediately back up with screens & videos and it only looks to be getting better as release day gets closer. Plus I have a job - I can only play 2-3 days a week, WAR's pvp-centric gameplay doesn't look like it will penalize me for that - sure I won't contribute as much to the war effort as the guy next to me who plays every day but being able to participate at all is more than I'm getting out of WoW right now - since I took this new job I can't get into a raid party at all (I used to raid quite a bit pre-TBC), and after being spoiled on DAOC's pvp I refuse to BG or go to the arenas, they're so... bad.. words kinda fail me.
/rant off
/dons Flame Retardant Suit
QFT
if you want a PvP game that is 'SKILL' based, watch Darkfall when and HOPE the actual beta comes out this year :P
and warhamemr is made by mythic the pvp cant go toooo wrong :P. granted DaoC had a lot of stuff wrong but it was still fun as hell to play. hah.
Oh yes! Im feening bad for the drug called Darkfall Online
. I hate to say it again 
, Warhammer has the same hype I gave Age of Conan and then some. In a way im glad for wuss MMO's, it keeps all the sissys 
in one spot just like fly paper.
AoC and WAR are the two top MMORPGs that I am following and I am interested in both but where are the articles on websites and magazines with people playing Age of Conan and talking about the PvP mechanics and the character classes and the zones? There are none because Funcom isn't letting people have access like Mythic is with WAR.
Funcom needs to stop acting like the previous generation of developers who never divulged information about their game during development and kept their community in the dark, only feeding them the occasional article or two.
Funcom needs to get some press conferences going! They need to let people PLAY the game and post about their experiences! Those sorts of things are worth a dozen interviews with developers who just keep on saying the same things we've already heard.
Until then Mythic will continue to generate more and more hype for WAR because that's what happens when you talk to the community, provide them lots of juicy information and LET THEM PLAY THE GAME.
x_rast_x brings up a very good point. We've heard lots of talk from Funcom so far, but where is the meat to back it up? We've seen videos of people playing WAR and enjoying themselves, Funcom needs to start doing the same and show that people have FUN while playing their game. Even if they're different players than those who might like WAR, Funcom needs to show them enjoying the game.
If we don't start seeing press conferences where outsiders are allow access to the game, then we're looking at either a push-back on the release date at the very least, or more dire possibilites at the worst.
FPS or console style gameplay does not appeal to me in the least. I'll take WAR over AoC anyday. I have both an Xbox 360 and a PC and there is a reason why I play PC games much more often. Twitch based gameplay gets on my nerves if played in doeses longer than 30 minutes.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Lol this thread has turned out to be an AoC vs WAR fans, and honestly there is no way to prove that WAR or AoC wont have the little spoiled American kids acting like they are tough shits, the fact that AoC is rated M would make you think that the community will be more mature but seriously when did the M rating ever stop the little kids from buying the game? Hell if anything thats advertisement, so for now I would hold up on judging both games because they arent out yet and simply all the arguments are opinions and not facts.
A man dies daily, only to be reborn in the morning, bigger, better and wiser.
-Playing AoC
-Playing WoW
-Retired- SWG
-Retired- EVE
-Retired- LotR
Computer (- Phenom 9600 Black Edition @ 2.81 Ghz (Quad Core CPU)- Gigabyte MA790FX-DS5 - 4 Gigs of PC 8500 ram (1066)- EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS PCI Express 2.0 - WD 500GB 7500RPM - Zalman CPU cooler (air cooled)
- 24" Widescreen 1080P HD display).
I think AoC is getting it much deserved hype right now.
For starters, all the Sigil Vanboi's are getting their moneys worth, eating the feet they stuck in their mouths about comparing AoC and Vanguard..that was a big mistake, and theres no way AoC cannot be a success when it launches- at least 2-3 times moreso than Vanguard.
But its ranking on here, their large site community, as well as the times you see it advertised, talked about in the industry, etc., and I think AoC gets plenty of hype.
In the end thats one of the reasons the Seraphim will be there hacking off heads- we see the raw potential for the best fantasy MMO to date, and we wouldnt miss it for the world.
QFT bro I've been saying it all along its yet another Everquest clone reskinned with 1 or 2 new features
Released games (that are good) score in the 8+ range
Soon-to-be-released games (that are probably good) score in the high 6's or around 7. Any score above 7 is incredible.
When Conan releases, it will likely score an 8.4 or so. But for now, 7.3 is fantastic.
QFT bro I've been saying it all along its yet another Everquest clone reskinned with 1 or 2 new features
Um.. you can dodge, that makes gear less dependant than anything Warhammer can do aside from giving everyone the same weapon.. Im assuming your war fanboys.