You know what the other bloody funny thing is, CharslesT, the fact that in the other thread you speak about VG being the ULTIMATE sandbox game. After reading your comments here, sure brought a smile upon my face.
With no endgame at all, I wouldn't only avoid calling it a sandbox, I'd avoid calling it complete.
8 million WoW Players? 4 million bots, and the North Americans that play that game are all children. I played WoW for a long time, and it was a relief to quit that game. Most people with a sense of self-respect do not tolerate the cartoon of the game it is and its community.
TBC removed a lot of the raiding and replaced it with faction grinding. If that is your idea of "fun," by all means eat-it-up. I like things more sophisticated, and I like more options. I think most people do. The weird thing about WoW is how many people that play the game that actually do not enjoy it. I think they mostly have not much better to do, but there game is mostly Asian with at least 4 million bots and the North Americans and Europeans that play are all children.
8 million WoW Players? 4 million bots, and the North Americans that play that game are all children. I played WoW for a long time, and it was a relief to quit that game. Most people with a sense of self-respect do not tolerate the cartoon of the game it is and its community.
TBC removed a lot of the raiding and replaced it with faction grinding. If that is your idea of "fun," by all means eat-it-up. I like things more sophisticated, and I like more options. I think most people do. The weird thing about WoW is how many people that play the game that actually do not enjoy it. I think they mostly have not much better to do, but there game is mostly Asian with at least 4 million bots and the North Americans and Europeans that play are all children.
Hey, I am not arguing that WoW is a great game, I saw it wasn't my taste pretty quick, but still, numbers mean something.
I think I have finally come to realize, why you fancy VG so, I mean it took you a really long time to open eyes about how you had no self respect tolerating the wow community and graphics for so long, and naturally it will take you a very long time until you see VG for what it's truly worth.
Guess you just can't be as lucky as me, and spot BS at almost first glance, but hey, this skill can be trained, so keep grinding!
random11, you are so right. Everyone takes you seriously.
Btw, you totally misunderstood what I stated, and I write in very clear language. It is your comprehension and not my writing.
WoW is an Asian bot game, and the only Europeans and North Americans that play are children. Vanguard is by far better to WoW in every way from graphics, to gameplay, to travel and exploration, quests.
random11, you are so right. Everyone takes you seriously.
Btw, you totally misunderstood what I stated, and I write in very clear language. It is your comprehension and not my writing.
WoW is an Asian bot game, and the only Europeans and North Americans that play are children. Vanguard is by far better to WoW in every way from graphics, to gameplay, to travel and exploration, quests.
You make me repeat myself, in a more ordinary matter than before, I shall lose prestige points on this, but heck, you caught me in my helpful mood.
If it took you so long to realize WoW was not a good game, I am not expecting you to realize VG isn't better by an inch all this fast, I mean it's only out half a year, and down under 50k, I mean there are no clues whatsoever pointing to it's failure (certainly not a laydown of the original dev team, where the great MMO visionary, genius behind VG didn't even show up). So no, there is no way any man blessed with "an intellectual brain" can see the logic behind the failure that is VG.
If I make you repeat yourself, can I make you get a better hobby than visiting this web page every five minutes? I am medding in the private EQ 1 server. What is your excuse?
You seem unhappy. You need to go for a jog or something. It is not me, or Vanguard, or the games. It is YOU.
Please respond to this message. I hope I "make" you.
If I make you repeat yourself, can I make you get a better hobby than visiting this web page every five minutes? I am medding in the private EQ 1 server. What is your excuse?
You seem unhappy. You need to go for a jog or something. It is not me, or Vanguard, or the games. It is YOU.
Please respond to this message. I hope I "make" you.
Yup, you made me ... realize I need not further argue, you dodging the issue at hand is sign of me making you.
And about the excuse: heck, I don't need one, you made it obvious, I'm probably a psycho murderer, taking a brake and terrorizing otherwise innocent forum dwellers. Gosh, being a maniac is hard these days, they hold it against you, what has the internet come to?!
Please respond to this message. I hope I "make" you.
Yup, you made me ...
Owned.
random11, people like you and sepher, that do not play this game have no idea what you are talking about. I may attack Vanguard, but I have the advantage of having a subscription and ability to experience the improvements being made. You just talk in circles, and then you circle your circle many times. You say the same things you have said since this game was in BETA.
Now you are saying I am making you reply. Everyone knows you reply because you have nothing better to do. You see how nuts you are?
Either way no matter how you look at it a MMORPG is only as good as its community, WoW doesnt have a good community but it has a LARGE one HENCE "MMO". I would much rather play a game with 1 million A-holes then to play a game no one knows about with and only under 100k players, get real. In logic WoW owns VG and practically every mmo out there no matter what anyone has to say, The players and MONEY spent towards the games show it. You can cry on here all day long about what the better game is but in all reality yes WoW is king ATM but only at the moment.
and btw i stopped playing wow at patch 2.0.1 and been playing since closed beta so before the bashing begins on "i dont know wtf im talking about blah blah blah" begins.... you dont know me, i dont know you, but i know and it can be researched on the NET, USE IT, that WoW is the leader od practically Every MMo out there
I would much rather play a game with 1 million A-holes then to play a game no one knows about with and only under 100k players, get real. In logic WoW owns VG and practically every mmo out there no matter what anyone has to say, The players and MONEY spent towards the games show it. You can cry on here all day long about what the better game is but in all reality yes WoW is king ATM but only at the moment.
You mean that I find WoW to be better because you and a shitload of other people do. Nah I wouldn't think so.
Or are so refering to you getting some kind of MMO-fame. (I heard blahblah disbanded. Xyz gaaaaanked me, waaah.)
A tip respect people choices that is better then trying to say they 'stoooopid' for saying what they like and what they want to do. If one says Vanguard is better then WoW it is quite simple, they saying that because they think so. Based their opinion on what they like without have to see confirmation by others.
You said WoW was fun because someone else said so, because a review said "best ever", not because you actuallt liked it. No?
What they are talking about here is different solution on end game, raiding. There is alot of other ways to do the end game. Vanguard have picked one other way that is having dungeon that is not instanced. Some wants forced raiding to get the things, some wants it to be done in other way.
To get the really good gear in WoW there is just a few options, mostly raiding. There is also some other things that differ. Guess what it is great that there are games that are different, doesn't matter that a game after another breaks some kind of record. Let it be that VG doesn't.
Are you refering to the famed word "wowkiller" well that is not the point of releasing a game now, is it.
I think your concerns are pretty meaningless at this point. There is no endgame right now, wont be for some time likely so I wouldnt worry about it. They are working on the first raids right now, when those go in it may seem like a forced raid game since there is no other high level content. After that they may add some high level content for those not into raiding but at the rate content has been added to this game that's a concern for christmas time at best.
Progress has been unacceptably slow. It seems that SOE's acquisition was worse for the community, afterall.
To me...a few months is not slow.
To my 16 yr old daughter...a few months is forever.
If SoE does nothing substantial in a year or two...THEN I would consider that to be slow.
I'm not worried about the end game because....for me...the game never ends anyway. If I max adventure then I'll craft more or max diplomacy. If I do all that and don't have anything left to do....I roll a new toon and try the game from a different perspective !
As for now...my to-do list is a mile long...it will be a year before I can even consider " end game " content. I hope I never get there.
I enjoy the journey more than the destination.
I'm in no rush and look forward to what SoE has planned for VG.
One thinks ( plays ) outside the box...one will get alot more out of Vanguard.
Too bad VG is a grindbox then, eh?
Vanguard is what you make it.
All sand box style mmorpg's can be a grind fest if that is the way a player ...plays it.
It's not a grind fest for me...why? ..because I don't make it one.
People who see the " grind " in Vanguard play with only max level in mind. If all you want is max level then ...ya....it is a grind fest. All mmorpg's will be a grind one way or another if all one wants is to get as many levels as they can as fast as they can.
sepher, that was the most illogical post I have ever seen. If you read his post, which I unfortunately did, he is saying it is not what current players want but what prospective players want. He then assumes that prospective players want forced-raiding end-game.
No one wants forced-raiding end-game. People want raiding as an option among other things to do. Let me spell it out for sepher, because this guy has a very convolute way of thinking and expressing himself: nobody wants forced-raiding. No one will join Vanguard, your socalled "prospective players," because of forced-raiding. WoW's end game, pre TBC proved that players do NOT want force-raiding. If the end-game is all forced-raiding, then even the current subscribers will quit.
Gosh, what an intellectual brain.
Yeah, all 8 mill WoW players proved, how much they hate the concept of the game they play... indeed.
8 million people watch American Idol too...does that mean it's quality programming?
8 million people shop at Walmart ...does that mean it's the best retailer out there?
8 million people eat at McDonalds....does that mean they have the best food?
numbers don't mean a thing
As long as enough people play to keep new content coming in and keep things busy enough...I'll be happy. Vanguard gains 100k in subs ( and I think it will within a year )...then I'll be completely fine with that. Even 50 k ....or 10 k even...so long as we don't have em all spread out on too many servers....I'll be fine with that.
In fact ...I don't want 8 million VG subscribers or anything close. Appealing to masses like that inevitably leads to a watered down mmorpg experience by default.
If we would have a race. The winning guy fall and hurt himself, yet still win the race despite losing 10 seconds easily. Next race, he willingly crash on the ground. Other racers start doing like him as well to win. The fact the guy who win the race crash willingly on the ground doesn't make it a good move to win the race in itself.
Raiding is a bad move. Forced raiding as in WoW is incredibly bad. Eventually, a competitor won't do it and win the race because you did. You will be able to appreciate fully how weak willingly crashing to the ground was, if you can understand it...I mean, many racers will still do it and think it is "good luck".
If 5% of the player base actually raid at least 1 hour per week, I would be surprised. Raiding is a mistake that appeal to a minority among a minority. Eventually, it will aggravate too many players and cause your bankruptcy. If everyone jumps of the bridge, would you?
I can't speak for other, but if Vanguard wouldn't be a forced raiding game, I would have buy 1 copy myself and I would prolly be playing the game. Instead, I tried beta, and figure it was not worth my time.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
as far as i can see there is not much forced of anything in this game. you either do or dont. you may get great items from raids but like poeple have said there are others way to get great items too. ok they may add raids into the game that reward players with grater items, but those items will not restrict your play if you dont get them, much like the old eq.
someone ripped the game apart earlier in this post for the game not having end game raid content like the old eq. the old eq only had 2 dragons that were raid material. most other raid were brought in with expansions like kunark etc. this game is new give it tim for expansions friend the same goes for the epic weapons! again added in at a later date in eq. AA points were brought in very late in eq. so lets get the game of and running first then complain when things are not added. hah i have not explored a quarter of this world yet so adding more progression now is pointless to me.
in answer to the OP there is no forced raiding in this game friend if you want a specific item that when implemented would need a raid then there is an option for you to join a raid and get it. if people say you need to be in a guild! then that has nothing to do with VG but rather the community that plays the game.
All the WoW disparaging and talks of personal likes aside; World of Warcraft has 8 million subscribers.Be they children, locals of Asian territories or players inept towards the finer things in life, as some of you criticize World of Warcraft players to be, World of Warcraft has 8 million subscribers.
World of Warcraft also has a subculture of raiders that supports the design methodology of giving the best rewards to raiders and their guilds. Therefore, it makes perfect sense for SOE to pursue that same raiding subculture as potential customers for its game.
It doesn't much matter what anyone personally wants, current subscriber or not, especially when it's an opinion against a convention cemented into the industry by World of Warcraft. Personally, I hate raiding, it's the reason I don't play World of Warcraft. At the same time, I'm not so deluded that I believe my personal opinion could ever outweigh what World of Warcraft has largely proven works.
So do yourselves a favor and get over it. You guys throw a hissy fit about every single thing Sigil/SOE does that makes SENSE towards appealing to the market at large. This is no different than beta complaints about quest indicators, mini-maps or soulbinding; or launch complaints about fast travel, easing death penalties and providing rest experience.
Expect many more conventions synonymous with World of Warcraft to come, because World of Warcraft proves subscribers will pay for them.
it is if you have something to draw customers from WoW. if not then you are trying to sell to a saturated market and that is nad buisness friend.
Following a WoW set convention is better than ignoring one.
Ideally, it's of course best to compete with a convention and attempt to replace it rather than follow it. In this case though, Vanguard doesn't have a plan for doing anything different with raids. If we were talking about Warhammer Online, we could bring up things like Public Quests and how that system could go up against WoW's raiding convention; but there is no such innovation in Vanguard. So the best SOE can do, is go with what's already works.
It seems to me that the point of the discussion has drifted a bit. The point....will it become a forced guilding/raiding game. It probably will. Look at who the original designer of the game is. And then look at who owns it now. The design crew where some of the most hard-core visionaries around. I played eq from second phase of beta up until 2001. And before sony took over it was a tough game. Slow leveling. Hardly any way to cut travel times. Death penalty was harsh. It was easy to lose your gear. And gear was not easy to replace. I remember when I first started to read about Vangaurd. They where talking about a return to that more austere type of gameing. So I would guess that if any of thier vision is going to be implemented by Sony, then there will most definately be better rewards for raiding than for soloing or crafting. And it will still be tough as hell and slow and make you work for it.
With that type of gameplay it will never be a WoW with 8 million subscribers. But it might be a game that will hold a dedicated fan base for the next 10 years. I have not purchased it yet. I needed a new computer first. Which I just ordered. So hopefully by next week I will have my new pc and by the end of the month bought Vanguard so I can bring first hand experiance to the table. I hate running entirely in suppositions.
i see your point friend but i think that SOE are a little more experienced than us at this and that they recognise that WoW has a huge user base and dont leave too many people left to cater for other than the "niche" markets. while they have not actualy catered for those i think they still feel it's better to aim at another market than wow.
maybe they will release raid content that's the same as WoW or any other game but, we are just speculating and should realy wait and see.
Comments
You know what the other bloody funny thing is, CharslesT, the fact that in the other thread you speak about VG being the ULTIMATE sandbox game. After reading your comments here, sure brought a smile upon my face.
With no endgame at all, I wouldn't only avoid calling it a sandbox, I'd avoid calling it complete.
8 million WoW Players? 4 million bots, and the North Americans that play that game are all children. I played WoW for a long time, and it was a relief to quit that game. Most people with a sense of self-respect do not tolerate the cartoon of the game it is and its community.
TBC removed a lot of the raiding and replaced it with faction grinding. If that is your idea of "fun," by all means eat-it-up. I like things more sophisticated, and I like more options. I think most people do. The weird thing about WoW is how many people that play the game that actually do not enjoy it. I think they mostly have not much better to do, but there game is mostly Asian with at least 4 million bots and the North Americans and Europeans that play are all children.
Boycott EA Games. RIP Sim City.
I think I have finally come to realize, why you fancy VG so, I mean it took you a really long time to open eyes about how you had no self respect tolerating the wow community and graphics for so long, and naturally it will take you a very long time until you see VG for what it's truly worth.
Guess you just can't be as lucky as me, and spot BS at almost first glance, but hey, this skill can be trained, so keep grinding!
random11, you are so right. Everyone takes you seriously.
Btw, you totally misunderstood what I stated, and I write in very clear language. It is your comprehension and not my writing.
WoW is an Asian bot game, and the only Europeans and North Americans that play are children. Vanguard is by far better to WoW in every way from graphics, to gameplay, to travel and exploration, quests.
Boycott EA Games. RIP Sim City.
If it took you so long to realize WoW was not a good game, I am not expecting you to realize VG isn't better by an inch all this fast, I mean it's only out half a year, and down under 50k, I mean there are no clues whatsoever pointing to it's failure (certainly not a laydown of the original dev team, where the great MMO visionary, genius behind VG didn't even show up). So no, there is no way any man blessed with "an intellectual brain" can see the logic behind the failure that is VG.
If I make you repeat yourself, can I make you get a better hobby than visiting this web page every five minutes? I am medding in the private EQ 1 server. What is your excuse?
You seem unhappy. You need to go for a jog or something. It is not me, or Vanguard, or the games. It is YOU.
Please respond to this message. I hope I "make" you.
Boycott EA Games. RIP Sim City.
If I make you repeat yourself, can I make you get a better hobby than visiting this web page every five minutes? I am medding in the private EQ 1 server. What is your excuse?
You seem unhappy. You need to go for a jog or something. It is not me, or Vanguard, or the games. It is YOU.
Please respond to this message. I hope I "make" you.
Yup, you made me ... realize I need not further argue, you dodging the issue at hand is sign of me making you.And about the excuse: heck, I don't need one, you made it obvious, I'm probably a psycho murderer, taking a brake and terrorizing otherwise innocent forum dwellers. Gosh, being a maniac is hard these days, they hold it against you, what has the internet come to?!
Please respond to this message. I hope I "make" you.
Yup, you made me ...Owned.
random11, people like you and sepher, that do not play this game have no idea what you are talking about. I may attack Vanguard, but I have the advantage of having a subscription and ability to experience the improvements being made. You just talk in circles, and then you circle your circle many times. You say the same things you have said since this game was in BETA.
Now you are saying I am making you reply. Everyone knows you reply because you have nothing better to do. You see how nuts you are?
Boycott EA Games. RIP Sim City.
Either way no matter how you look at it a MMORPG is only as good as its community, WoW doesnt have a good community but it has a LARGE one HENCE "MMO". I would much rather play a game with 1 million A-holes then to play a game no one knows about with and only under 100k players, get real. In logic WoW owns VG and practically every mmo out there no matter what anyone has to say, The players and MONEY spent towards the games show it. You can cry on here all day long about what the better game is but in all reality yes WoW is king ATM but only at the moment.
and btw i stopped playing wow at patch 2.0.1 and been playing since closed beta so before the bashing begins on "i dont know wtf im talking about blah blah blah" begins.... you dont know me, i dont know you, but i know and it can be researched on the NET, USE IT, that WoW is the leader od practically Every MMo out there
You mean that I find WoW to be better because you and a shitload of other people do. Nah I wouldn't think so.
Or are so refering to you getting some kind of MMO-fame. (I heard blahblah disbanded. Xyz gaaaaanked me, waaah.)
A tip respect people choices that is better then trying to say they 'stoooopid' for saying what they like and what they want to do. If one says Vanguard is better then WoW it is quite simple, they saying that because they think so. Based their opinion on what they like without have to see confirmation by others.
You said WoW was fun because someone else said so, because a review said "best ever", not because you actuallt liked it. No?
What they are talking about here is different solution on end game, raiding. There is alot of other ways to do the end game. Vanguard have picked one other way that is having dungeon that is not instanced. Some wants forced raiding to get the things, some wants it to be done in other way.
To get the really good gear in WoW there is just a few options, mostly raiding. There is also some other things that differ. Guess what it is great that there are games that are different, doesn't matter that a game after another breaks some kind of record. Let it be that VG doesn't.
Are you refering to the famed word "wowkiller" well that is not the point of releasing a game now, is it.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Progress has been unacceptably slow. It seems that SOE's acquisition was worse for the community, afterall.
To me...a few months is not slow.
To my 16 yr old daughter...a few months is forever.
If SoE does nothing substantial in a year or two...THEN I would consider that to be slow.
I'm not worried about the end game because....for me...the game never ends anyway. If I max adventure then I'll craft more or max diplomacy. If I do all that and don't have anything left to do....I roll a new toon and try the game from a different perspective !
As for now...my to-do list is a mile long...it will be a year before I can even consider " end game " content. I hope I never get there.
I enjoy the journey more than the destination.
I'm in no rush and look forward to what SoE has planned for VG.
Too bad VG is a grindbox then, eh?
Vanguard is what you make it.
All sand box style mmorpg's can be a grind fest if that is the way a player ...plays it.
It's not a grind fest for me...why? ..because I don't make it one.
People who see the " grind " in Vanguard play with only max level in mind. If all you want is max level then ...ya....it is a grind fest. All mmorpg's will be a grind one way or another if all one wants is to get as many levels as they can as fast as they can.
Yeah, all 8 mill WoW players proved, how much they hate the concept of the game they play... indeed.
8 million people watch American Idol too...does that mean it's quality programming?
8 million people shop at Walmart ...does that mean it's the best retailer out there?
8 million people eat at McDonalds....does that mean they have the best food?
numbers don't mean a thing
As long as enough people play to keep new content coming in and keep things busy enough...I'll be happy. Vanguard gains 100k in subs ( and I think it will within a year )...then I'll be completely fine with that. Even 50 k ....or 10 k even...so long as we don't have em all spread out on too many servers....I'll be fine with that.
In fact ...I don't want 8 million VG subscribers or anything close. Appealing to masses like that inevitably leads to a watered down mmorpg experience by default.
If we would have a race. The winning guy fall and hurt himself, yet still win the race despite losing 10 seconds easily. Next race, he willingly crash on the ground. Other racers start doing like him as well to win. The fact the guy who win the race crash willingly on the ground doesn't make it a good move to win the race in itself.
Raiding is a bad move. Forced raiding as in WoW is incredibly bad. Eventually, a competitor won't do it and win the race because you did. You will be able to appreciate fully how weak willingly crashing to the ground was, if you can understand it...I mean, many racers will still do it and think it is "good luck".
If 5% of the player base actually raid at least 1 hour per week, I would be surprised. Raiding is a mistake that appeal to a minority among a minority. Eventually, it will aggravate too many players and cause your bankruptcy. If everyone jumps of the bridge, would you?
I can't speak for other, but if Vanguard wouldn't be a forced raiding game, I would have buy 1 copy myself and I would prolly be playing the game. Instead, I tried beta, and figure it was not worth my time.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
as far as i can see there is not much forced of anything in this game. you either do or dont. you may get great items from raids but like poeple have said there are others way to get great items too. ok they may add raids into the game that reward players with grater items, but those items will not restrict your play if you dont get them, much like the old eq.
someone ripped the game apart earlier in this post for the game not having end game raid content like the old eq. the old eq only had 2 dragons that were raid material. most other raid were brought in with expansions like kunark etc. this game is new give it tim for expansions friend the same goes for the epic weapons! again added in at a later date in eq. AA points were brought in very late in eq. so lets get the game of and running first then complain when things are not added. hah i have not explored a quarter of this world yet so adding more progression now is pointless to me.
in answer to the OP there is no forced raiding in this game friend if you want a specific item that when implemented would need a raid then there is an option for you to join a raid and get it. if people say you need to be in a guild! then that has nothing to do with VG but rather the community that plays the game.
All the WoW disparaging and talks of personal likes aside; World of Warcraft has 8 million subscribers.Be they children, locals of Asian territories or players inept towards the finer things in life, as some of you criticize World of Warcraft players to be, World of Warcraft has 8 million subscribers.
World of Warcraft also has a subculture of raiders that supports the design methodology of giving the best rewards to raiders and their guilds. Therefore, it makes perfect sense for SOE to pursue that same raiding subculture as potential customers for its game.
It doesn't much matter what anyone personally wants, current subscriber or not, especially when it's an opinion against a convention cemented into the industry by World of Warcraft. Personally, I hate raiding, it's the reason I don't play World of Warcraft. At the same time, I'm not so deluded that I believe my personal opinion could ever outweigh what World of Warcraft has largely proven works.
So do yourselves a favor and get over it. You guys throw a hissy fit about every single thing Sigil/SOE does that makes SENSE towards appealing to the market at large. This is no different than beta complaints about quest indicators, mini-maps or soulbinding; or launch complaints about fast travel, easing death penalties and providing rest experience.
Expect many more conventions synonymous with World of Warcraft to come, because World of Warcraft proves subscribers will pay for them.
No there is still reason to run a business even if it is not the biggest and most succesfull.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
it is if you have something to draw customers from WoW. if not then you are trying to sell to a saturated market and that is nad buisness friend.
nad = bad by the way hehe!
excuse me for my bad spelling i was useless at school
I think you understood my sentiment better then that, honestly.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
I think you understood my sentiment better then that, honestly.
Sure didn't. Enlighten me if you would.
Ideally, it's of course best to compete with a convention and attempt to replace it rather than follow it. In this case though, Vanguard doesn't have a plan for doing anything different with raids. If we were talking about Warhammer Online, we could bring up things like Public Quests and how that system could go up against WoW's raiding convention; but there is no such innovation in Vanguard. So the best SOE can do, is go with what's already works.
It seems to me that the point of the discussion has drifted a bit. The point....will it become a forced guilding/raiding game. It probably will. Look at who the original designer of the game is. And then look at who owns it now. The design crew where some of the most hard-core visionaries around. I played eq from second phase of beta up until 2001. And before sony took over it was a tough game. Slow leveling. Hardly any way to cut travel times. Death penalty was harsh. It was easy to lose your gear. And gear was not easy to replace. I remember when I first started to read about Vangaurd. They where talking about a return to that more austere type of gameing. So I would guess that if any of thier vision is going to be implemented by Sony, then there will most definately be better rewards for raiding than for soloing or crafting. And it will still be tough as hell and slow and make you work for it.
With that type of gameplay it will never be a WoW with 8 million subscribers. But it might be a game that will hold a dedicated fan base for the next 10 years. I have not purchased it yet. I needed a new computer first. Which I just ordered. So hopefully by next week I will have my new pc and by the end of the month bought Vanguard so I can bring first hand experiance to the table. I hate running entirely in suppositions.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
i see your point friend but i think that SOE are a little more experienced than us at this and that they recognise that WoW has a huge user base and dont leave too many people left to cater for other than the "niche" markets. while they have not actualy catered for those i think they still feel it's better to aim at another market than wow.
maybe they will release raid content that's the same as WoW or any other game but, we are just speculating and should realy wait and see.