WoW was so successful that many of the new MMOs are trying to duplicate the WOW equation for success. So we have a market saturated with MMO ideas that are 5 years old now, not to mention they're almost ALL fantasy MMOs.
Unfortunately there isn't much original thinking going on out there. Nobody has the guts to make a good game without checking it against the "success boilerplate checklist."
I would love to see a SWG II developed. But I think the OP is exactly right... any new SWG would just be a WOW clone without any gutsy or original development. (FFA PVP, FPS, Corpse-looting, housing, no credit-farmers/sellers, good space with newtonian physics model, no levels, no classes, etc.) I don't see it happening. Too original and un-tested.
- Phos
AAH! A troll fire! Quick, pour some Kool-Aid on it!!!
ahh ignorance runith overith.. LOL People and their failed memories.. Keep on believing that classic SWG was all that and a bag of chips.. LOL There was a reason NGE came along, but keep on denying to yourself the truth of what SWG used to be like.. Corpse camping , TEF camping, Cities turned into faction basis, Mayor and militia gone wild.. LOL yeah.. I remember those days.. LOL But appearantly I'm the only one that does.. lol The grieving crap went crazy to the point that it became a free for all and most NON PVP persons canceled .. Yep.. I remember when SWG had a FEW hundred thousand games sold, but ended up with low population servers., and even lower now.. I see that Best Buy carries about 2 or 3 copies of the game on the shelves.. LOL
But I guess alot of you played a different SWG then I did since Day 1.. LOL Hell, SWG couldn't even get the eating/drinking and cooking thing correct.. geeeeeeeesh.. But I'm sure you'll all tell me how perfect the artisan chef line was and how eating and drinking was bug free too
There is a reason the NGE came along...forum whiners like you.
No one forced you to pick a side, you could have remained neutral. But you CHOSE to ally with either Rebel or Imperial. More over, you CHOSE to shoot that stormtrooper. You CHOSE to assist an OVERT player. The TEF system was a wonderful system that allowed you to CHOOSE if you wanted to pvp or not.
In the many years I played I never experienced corpse camping or griefing that you describe. But with what you have written on this forum I'm guessing you where the type of player who would send hate tells about getting killed while TEFed, say a Master Fencer was exploiting cause he beat you with his stun baton when you were wearing full composite armor, and you have proven that you are the kind of player that ran to the forums to complain cause things werent going your way.
You are the minority, you were part of the problem, and again, people like you are the reason for the NGE.
Pre-CU definetly had its flaws. No one will argue that. But you are the one whom it seems was playing a different game from day 1
Please go back and queue into your battleground and capture that flag!
Thank you so much, i was going to tear him a new hole myself for being ignorant himself but you did it much better. Cheers!
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
I believe rydeson is refering to the 'revenge tef' ganking where people did indeed camp med facilities and grief players. I know all about it as I was one of those exploiters. I caused many people to log out in order to avoid my fury. Funny how long it took the dev's to fix the problem because they did not understand it.
I would go to naboo and go to a town that was very populated. I would go overt and instantly there's like 50 mofo's shooting at me. I die. I clone and come back as covert. Well all those mofo's that shot at me I can now gank while I'm covert. And since I was a BH with that skill that did health woulds I would gank them hard. so basically I could wander around covert and pick my target. They are all flagged TEF to me but I am not to them. But as soon as I start shooting I get flagged for them. So basically I'd walk into the med facility with a bunch of dudes who I can shoot. I get as many flameshots off as possible before I get flagged and killed. I would do this for hours on end. The med facility would be full of peeps with black health bars because of me. Entire cities would vanish as people logged out and cried. it was totally fun.
But finally the dev's removed revenge TEF. Lol it shoulda never existed in the first place.
I loved SWG. I played from launch until the holocrons came out. But I was a total powergamer and I got my roxx off finding and exploiting new exploits. BH/pistoleer/CH with millions of credits. The game ruled in the beginning.
Obviously, you have selective memory when it comes to SWG.. Clone camping was NOT elective, a Doctor unknowingly aiding a TEF combatant made him TEF.. OMG I remember from day 1 all the docs that were getting ganked for healing someone.. Being in a player city and having the militia gank ya if they chose to do so.. Anyone else remember the "COVERT" scanners at ports so that a covert is automatically ganked about porting in.. This is why the game FAILED.. This is one of the reasons why a GOOD portion of the playing base chose to cancel and leave SWG..
I have news for you.. a game that does NOT allow PvE play will always DIE a certain death.. SWG was set up and designed to be 80% PvP.. That is why the game became a ghost town, WHY Lucas Arts stepped in with NGE.. Why to this date NO ONE wants to touch this cancer.. What SWG should of done was made servers that were TEF and PvP free.... But they didn't and the game imploaded.. LOL The only peeps I see defending the OLD SWG are the ones that loved to exploit it.. lol You want the classic SWG back, Then promote a server with no TEF's and No Player Cities, and NO PvP unless it's done in an instances zone...... LOL
There was no way to unknowingly go TEF. Overt or TEF Faction members were highlighted with the faction they were.
I was a Doctor and by choice and only by choice at times took a risk to aid a faction member and temporarily get TEFed. That was the beauty of SWG. There were consequences for your actions.
How fun is a game that has no risk?
What kind a game has no risk?
I was a master doc as well, and there was a time there I didn't heal anyone because there was no way of knowing if someone was TEF'd ... I remember an Imperial doc and myself were in bestine healing wounds.... I had no clue I was TEF'd nothing on the screen I mean NOTHING! The guy that came in was Imperail Overt, he ganked not only me but the Imperial doctor as well Imperial on Imperial because of the Jackholed TEF at the begining.... It was looked at after that... But it did happen. Everyone was like WTF he was imperial and so was she!! I understand me as a rebel but again I had no indication I was TEF'd
Obviously, you have selective memory when it comes to SWG.. Clone camping was NOT elective, a Doctor unknowingly aiding a TEF combatant made him TEF.. OMG I remember from day 1 all the docs that were getting ganked for healing someone.. Being in a player city and having the militia gank ya if they chose to do so.. Anyone else remember the "COVERT" scanners at ports so that a covert is automatically ganked about porting in.. This is why the game FAILED.. This is one of the reasons why a GOOD portion of the playing base chose to cancel and leave SWG..
I have news for you.. a game that does NOT allow PvE play will always DIE a certain death.. SWG was set up and designed to be 80% PvP.. That is why the game became a ghost town, WHY Lucas Arts stepped in with NGE.. Why to this date NO ONE wants to touch this cancer.. What SWG should of done was made servers that were TEF and PvP free.... But they didn't and the game imploaded.. LOL The only peeps I see defending the OLD SWG are the ones that loved to exploit it.. lol You want the classic SWG back, Then promote a server with no TEF's and No Player Cities, and NO PvP unless it's done in an instances zone...... LOL
There was no way to unknowingly go TEF. Overt or TEF Faction members were highlighted with the faction they were.
I was a Doctor and by choice and only by choice at times took a risk to aid a faction member and temporarily get TEFed. That was the beauty of SWG. There were consequences for your actions.
How fun is a game that has no risk?
What kind a game has no risk?
I was a master doc as well, and there was a time there I didn't heal anyone because there was no way of knowing if someone was TEF'd ... I remember an Imperial doc and myself were in bestine healing wounds.... I had no clue I was TEF'd nothing on the screen I mean NOTHING! The guy that came in was Imperail Overt, he ganked not only me but the Imperial doctor as well Imperial on Imperial because of the Jackholed TEF at the begining.... It was looked at after that... But it did happen. Everyone was like WTF he was imperial and so was she!! I understand me as a rebel but again I had no indication I was TEF'd
You're exactly right. I used to gank people like that all the time. Med facility full of people with fully black health bars because of me. It's funny all the posts on the forums screaming at the devs to fix this and they're like 'wtf you can't get ganked while your covert or get ganked by someone who is covert.' LOL. took em over 2 months to figure it out.
really K.. I play WoW and I have NEVER been corpse camped on a NON PvP server....... The fact is that WoW allows both types of servers.. and getting into PvP is optional and a small part of the game, whereas SWG was not..
What you just said made it sound like you think PvP wasn't optional in SWG.
PvP was absolutely, 100% optional in SWG when I played in pre-CU.
I call BS on this one. I was one of the first to unlock the Jedi slot. Did in 7 professions (ya that was a dumb system good lord) Jedi were forced pvp WITH PERMANENT DEATH. Sorry no choice in the matter there.
My first death occured while I was on Endor from gee go figure a client disconnect. Ya real fun. Next 2 were from some idiot who found me and called his friends into the clone center to catch me as I was rezzed gee thats fun.
The problem with SWG originally wasn't the ganking, the TEF system or anything like that. It was the exploitation of players duping items, credits etc etc etc to the point that everything became unplayable. You can blame the failure of SWG on Lucas Arts all you want but to myself and most people who I know who quit, we got fed up with the lack of exploit fixes and the continous "a fix is coming" from the devs when in fact every patch the just created new ways to exploit the game. Somehow I haven't seen that that attitude of SOE's has changed and for that they've lost quite a number of potential customers, probably for good.
Just look at the MMO market, a ton of games to be released, and about 80% of them will fail horribly. It's the same old shit over and over again with a different back story. To make a MMO today means alot of risk. The market is obviously pretty saturated. And yes, WoW is a curse to the MMO genre, because it is taken as the industry standard. And it is definately not a good game for someone who wants more than a Persistent Elven Counter Strike world.
I am just tired of all those MMOs, they bore me after a few weeks and in effect become just another single player game to me. Buy it, play it, put it away. Until something new, totally revolutionary happens, I doubt that will change, as companies try to grab customers from WoW with streamlined wowish products.
Boring Boring Boring
So what company wants to take the risk of creating another Star WArs MMO from scratch?
That's the real problem here, what company wants to risk the time and resources into deveoping another Star Wars MMO after what SOE/LA did to SWG?
1.) Dealing with LA.
2.) Overcoming all the bad publicity of SWG.
3.) Overcoming the Pre-CU and it's innovative systems.
I highly doubt the new Star Wars MMO would be likened to the Pre-CU. That combat system is very dated and did need a slight overhaul (not the CU) but something that worked better and faster.
It seems that the more I read the more it is obvious that players are ready for a system that is skill-based as opposed to level-based. Players like choice, and now that WoW has brought millions of new MMO players into the market, and they are now veterans of the MMO style of play, that they probably would accept and enjoy a more advanced form of online gaming.
A skill-based system with a more real-time combat system would probably work very well... IF done properly and launched when ready, not rushed out by LA.
It is going to take a company that is bold, a company that has a history of innovation, and a company that has a reputation that can overcome all the negative history of the SWG.
Putting it into that perspective, the ONLY company that seems obvious to do it is Bioware/Pandemic. It may or may not be them, but it definetely won't be Pre-CU SWG either. It will be something new and very distanced from SWG, in fact, it will probably compete with SWG as a completely different MMO.
KOTOR is idealistically different from SWG. The timelines are so vastly different and the arc of characters so dis-similar that it could be viable that the intellectual property (though Star Wars) is so unique to itself that it isn't truly the same game. In KOTOR, it would perfectly understandable to see thousands of Jedi/Dark Jedi/Sith running around hacking each other in PVP. You would not have to deal in "iconic" because it is so open to fresh input. However, a new MMO based on the modern trilogy would simply be a waste of time for years despite the popularity of the movies, thanks in large party to SOE/LA.
Originally posted by Enigma I highly doubt anyone will make a SWG2. It just has such a stinky stigmata associated with it.
Got to agree..i always said any star wars MMO should have been the game to rule the genre in the way WOW does at the moment but sadly it was flawed from the off as it really was never going to atract people who'd never played an MMO before and most importantly keep them playing.
Ya know, I don't see why so many people have shifted focus from SOE in this.
It's almost as if SOE had nothing to do with how poor the game was.
I think if anything we need to look how SOE has continued to publish exploit and bug ridden games. Yes Lucas Arts had issues, but I think SOE has more to do with many of the major faults of SWG and other games than people here seem to think.
Comments
WoW was so successful that many of the new MMOs are trying to duplicate the WOW equation for success. So we have a market saturated with MMO ideas that are 5 years old now, not to mention they're almost ALL fantasy MMOs.
Unfortunately there isn't much original thinking going on out there. Nobody has the guts to make a good game without checking it against the "success boilerplate checklist."
I would love to see a SWG II developed. But I think the OP is exactly right... any new SWG would just be a WOW clone without any gutsy or original development. (FFA PVP, FPS, Corpse-looting, housing, no credit-farmers/sellers, good space with newtonian physics model, no levels, no classes, etc.) I don't see it happening. Too original and un-tested.
- Phos
There is a reason the NGE came along...forum whiners like you.
No one forced you to pick a side, you could have remained neutral. But you CHOSE to ally with either Rebel or Imperial. More over, you CHOSE to shoot that stormtrooper. You CHOSE to assist an OVERT player. The TEF system was a wonderful system that allowed you to CHOOSE if you wanted to pvp or not.
In the many years I played I never experienced corpse camping or griefing that you describe. But with what you have written on this forum I'm guessing you where the type of player who would send hate tells about getting killed while TEFed, say a Master Fencer was exploiting cause he beat you with his stun baton when you were wearing full composite armor, and you have proven that you are the kind of player that ran to the forums to complain cause things werent going your way.
You are the minority, you were part of the problem, and again, people like you are the reason for the NGE.
Pre-CU definetly had its flaws. No one will argue that. But you are the one whom it seems was playing a different game from day 1
Please go back and queue into your battleground and capture that flag!
Thank you so much, i was going to tear him a new hole myself for being ignorant himself but you did it much better. Cheers!
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
I believe rydeson is refering to the 'revenge tef' ganking where people did indeed camp med facilities and grief players. I know all about it as I was one of those exploiters. I caused many people to log out in order to avoid my fury. Funny how long it took the dev's to fix the problem because they did not understand it.
I would go to naboo and go to a town that was very populated. I would go overt and instantly there's like 50 mofo's shooting at me. I die. I clone and come back as covert. Well all those mofo's that shot at me I can now gank while I'm covert. And since I was a BH with that skill that did health woulds I would gank them hard. so basically I could wander around covert and pick my target. They are all flagged TEF to me but I am not to them. But as soon as I start shooting I get flagged for them. So basically I'd walk into the med facility with a bunch of dudes who I can shoot. I get as many flameshots off as possible before I get flagged and killed. I would do this for hours on end. The med facility would be full of peeps with black health bars because of me. Entire cities would vanish as people logged out and cried. it was totally fun.
But finally the dev's removed revenge TEF. Lol it shoulda never existed in the first place.
I loved SWG. I played from launch until the holocrons came out. But I was a total powergamer and I got my roxx off finding and exploiting new exploits. BH/pistoleer/CH with millions of credits. The game ruled in the beginning.
There was no way to unknowingly go TEF. Overt or TEF Faction members were highlighted with the faction they were.
I was a Doctor and by choice and only by choice at times took a risk to aid a faction member and temporarily get TEFed. That was the beauty of SWG. There were consequences for your actions.
How fun is a game that has no risk?
What kind a game has no risk?
I was a master doc as well, and there was a time there I didn't heal anyone because there was no way of knowing if someone was TEF'd ... I remember an Imperial doc and myself were in bestine healing wounds.... I had no clue I was TEF'd nothing on the screen I mean NOTHING! The guy that came in was Imperail Overt, he ganked not only me but the Imperial doctor as well Imperial on Imperial because of the Jackholed TEF at the begining.... It was looked at after that... But it did happen. Everyone was like WTF he was imperial and so was she!! I understand me as a rebel but again I had no indication I was TEF'd
There was no way to unknowingly go TEF. Overt or TEF Faction members were highlighted with the faction they were.
I was a Doctor and by choice and only by choice at times took a risk to aid a faction member and temporarily get TEFed. That was the beauty of SWG. There were consequences for your actions.
How fun is a game that has no risk?
What kind a game has no risk?
I was a master doc as well, and there was a time there I didn't heal anyone because there was no way of knowing if someone was TEF'd ... I remember an Imperial doc and myself were in bestine healing wounds.... I had no clue I was TEF'd nothing on the screen I mean NOTHING! The guy that came in was Imperail Overt, he ganked not only me but the Imperial doctor as well Imperial on Imperial because of the Jackholed TEF at the begining.... It was looked at after that... But it did happen. Everyone was like WTF he was imperial and so was she!! I understand me as a rebel but again I had no indication I was TEF'd
You're exactly right. I used to gank people like that all the time. Med facility full of people with fully black health bars because of me. It's funny all the posts on the forums screaming at the devs to fix this and they're like 'wtf you can't get ganked while your covert or get ganked by someone who is covert.' LOL. took em over 2 months to figure it out.
What you just said made it sound like you think PvP wasn't optional in SWG.
PvP was absolutely, 100% optional in SWG when I played in pre-CU.
Just look at the MMO market, a ton of games to be released, and about 80% of them will fail horribly. It's the same old shit over and over again with a different back story. To make a MMO today means alot of risk. The market is obviously pretty saturated. And yes, WoW is a curse to the MMO genre, because it is taken as the industry standard. And it is definately not a good game for someone who wants more than a Persistent Elven Counter Strike world.
I am just tired of all those MMOs, they bore me after a few weeks and in effect become just another single player game to me. Buy it, play it, put it away. Until something new, totally revolutionary happens, I doubt that will change, as companies try to grab customers from WoW with streamlined wowish products.
Boring Boring Boring
So what company wants to take the risk of creating another Star WArs MMO from scratch?
That's the real problem here, what company wants to risk the time and resources into deveoping another Star Wars MMO after what SOE/LA did to SWG?
1.) Dealing with LA.
2.) Overcoming all the bad publicity of SWG.
3.) Overcoming the Pre-CU and it's innovative systems.
I highly doubt the new Star Wars MMO would be likened to the Pre-CU. That combat system is very dated and did need a slight overhaul (not the CU) but something that worked better and faster.
It seems that the more I read the more it is obvious that players are ready for a system that is skill-based as opposed to level-based. Players like choice, and now that WoW has brought millions of new MMO players into the market, and they are now veterans of the MMO style of play, that they probably would accept and enjoy a more advanced form of online gaming.
A skill-based system with a more real-time combat system would probably work very well... IF done properly and launched when ready, not rushed out by LA.
It is going to take a company that is bold, a company that has a history of innovation, and a company that has a reputation that can overcome all the negative history of the SWG.
Putting it into that perspective, the ONLY company that seems obvious to do it is Bioware/Pandemic. It may or may not be them, but it definetely won't be Pre-CU SWG either. It will be something new and very distanced from SWG, in fact, it will probably compete with SWG as a completely different MMO.
KOTOR is idealistically different from SWG. The timelines are so vastly different and the arc of characters so dis-similar that it could be viable that the intellectual property (though Star Wars) is so unique to itself that it isn't truly the same game. In KOTOR, it would perfectly understandable to see thousands of Jedi/Dark Jedi/Sith running around hacking each other in PVP. You would not have to deal in "iconic" because it is so open to fresh input. However, a new MMO based on the modern trilogy would simply be a waste of time for years despite the popularity of the movies, thanks in large party to SOE/LA.
Ya know, I don't see why so many people have shifted focus from SOE in this.
It's almost as if SOE had nothing to do with how poor the game was.
I think if anything we need to look how SOE has continued to publish exploit and bug ridden games. Yes Lucas Arts had issues, but I think SOE has more to do with many of the major faults of SWG and other games than people here seem to think.
qfe. wow= my first little mmo. swg was destroyed in the name of providing simplistic gameplay to wow fans....including smed. such tripe.