There selling the game for 20 and the expansion for 40, so new players = 60 more than what they orignally made from the first coppies. Its natural for games to drop their price when they have expansions because what new player wants to shell out 80- 100 dollars to play a game? just a side note lol
Point taken. Atleast $10 or $20 for the orginal WOW. $40 for the expansion. That's atleast $50 plus a monthly fee of $14.95.
That's for a 8.1 mmo (According to thousands of players on this site as an average reflective score)
Now at www.direct2drive.com, you can get the latest offering of Asheron's Call which includes ALL of their expansions and almost 8 years of content for a mere $19.95. No tax. No driving to the store. And you can get an avg 8.2 mmo and an mmo which so many have made statements like "best mmo ever" and "best game out there" etc etc.
Yes, your average American would vote for GW Bush a third time IF only he could run and ruin again. Don't follow the mere numbers and masses. Look at the content of both games, look at all the "boring" type of reviews WoW has by players and all the "best game ever" type of statements in the Asherons Call reviews. Make an educated decision. Perhaps get a better game and save atleast $30 and a lower month fee of $12.95 with a game like Asherons Call.
...Just make a educated and intelligent decision is all that I ask. It's your money, sure. It's also your vote when you elect a president into office. Just don't mindlessly follow the masses is all that I ask. Is that really asking too much?
I played AC at pretty close to launch for a year. I went back and tried it 2 years ago and it was like playing an Atari 2600. They really need to update it.
Unlike probably 90% of people that continue to talk pointlessly, I have actually played both games in this "Which Game is Best" session. AC and WoW actually both have very different qualities within the two games. I had played AC from 2000-2001 and WoW in 2006. I'm not one to say whether each one is better but AC is closer to an EQ environment in its difficulty. AC can and will challenge you while you can sail through WoW. If you're hardcore, most likely, you're gonna prefer AC. If you wanna play for an hour and feel like you've achieved something play WoW. There is no best and Ratings I think do matter but unless its at least 1.0 better you can't compare the two based soley off ratings and populations.
LOL. I finally found it folks! Living PROOF that Asheron's Call is better then World of Warcraft!! HEHEHE. I DID find this very amusing. I think this guy feels a little frustration as well as to WoW's numbers and success -vs- Asheron's Call: Check it out... very funny and entertaining (yes even if you love WOW, heh) watch this video of a frustrated Asherons Call Darktide (PvP server) player!
Enjoy!
(and yes, that's my PROOF that AC>WOW damn it)
- Zaxx
Zaxtor, I'm very shocked by all your post in this thread. Usually you come up with some pretty convincing arguments. Everything you wrote in this thread though.. what's the a nice way of putting it. Makes you seem like a rabid fanboi for AC camp. All of them smack of of a ** I'll treat my opinion as if it's fact, while telling you that your opinion is wrong ** mentality. Pretty disappointing when I think back on alot of your other post over last year or so.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Asherons call.... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH..... *eyes well up* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH omg *breathes deeply and steadily to control the laughter* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA omg omg omg i forgot about that game.... if asherons call were a movie it would be 'Hawk the Slayer'.... seriously Im crying with laughter at the mear thought of Asherons call. Its like a good joke/ something funny that you remember an hour, a day , a week later and you just laugh with your eyes welling up. Then of course people think youre nuts when they ask you "whats so funny?" and you say "Asheron's call" with tears rolling down your eyes. "Err ok what the hell is Asherons call?" ..... AHAHAHAHAHA *crying with laughter* "yes i know.... What the hell is Asherons call.... oh thats so true".
ps. AHAHAHAHAHAHA pps. if you dont know what hawk the slayer is... please if u can find the intro to it... watch it .. it will have you in tears... the music is so ghey. And yes, I feel i have really added to this pointless post.
No you havent.
You obviously never played AC, you obviously dont know what youre talking about, and you obviously need to make yourself stop looking so bad.
On another side note, the argument of "Well WoW has a huge subscriber base wheras AC has a miniscule amount so WoW is better" is tried, its used, and quite frankly, its wrong. Just becuase the majority of people are playing a game doesnt make it "right" in any sense. Just because people eat at Mcdonald's all the time doesnt mean that its healthy.
I see posts on gaming forums *everywhere* that mention about AC and on game forums such as AOC, WAR, POTBC you get people talking about how great AC1 is and was. Face it peeps, AC1 was a far superior game to WoW - it had a brilliant classless system, excellent PvP, minimal gear based play, rich lore and an awsome PvP server to boot. It actually requires skilled brains to play. Ask anyone who played AC, and they will tell you 90% of the time it was one of the best gaming experiences they ever had.
AC was built for fun, whereas WoW was built for money.
People cant say that about WoW. Its a no brainer - AC is superior in so many ways.
Im no wow fanboi.... all I know is that when I played EQ I gave AC a go... i still have the original retail box. AC was terrible... yes it has a following ... but so do Fred and Rosmary West and Charles Manson.
By the way nice detective work... with your 'you dont like it so you have no experience in that area notion' fact is I have played and tested almost all the MMORPGs you have seen... well the pay to play ones. Suprising ly add that to the fact that I am a graduate games designer i think i can pretty much deduce wether a game will be hitting the shelves in a major games store or be thrown into the advertisement catagory of "Coming to an ASDA bargin bin near you..." introduction.... AC sucked.... thats my opinion... im not a hater.... we are all here to give our opinions so that others can base their next comment on it.
Asherons call.... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH..... *eyes well up* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH omg *breathes deeply and steadily to control the laughter* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA omg omg omg i forgot about that game.... if asherons call were a movie it would be 'Hawk the Slayer'.... seriously Im crying with laughter at the mear thought of Asherons call. Its like a good joke/ something funny that you remember an hour, a day , a week later and you just laugh with your eyes welling up. Then of course people think youre nuts when they ask you "whats so funny?" and you say "Asheron's call" with tears rolling down your eyes. "Err ok what the hell is Asherons call?" ..... AHAHAHAHAHA *crying with laughter* "yes i know.... What the hell is Asherons call.... oh thats so true".
ps. AHAHAHAHAHAHA pps. if you dont know what hawk the slayer is... please if u can find the intro to it... watch it .. it will have you in tears... the music is so ghey. And yes, I feel i have really added to this pointless post.
No you havent.
You obviously never played AC, you obviously dont know what youre talking about, and you obviously need to make yourself stop looking so bad.
On another side note, the argument of "Well WoW has a huge subscriber base wheras AC has a miniscule amount so WoW is better" is tried, its used, and quite frankly, its wrong. Just becuase the majority of people are playing a game doesnt make it "right" in any sense. Just because people eat at Mcdonald's all the time doesnt mean that its healthy.
I see posts on gaming forums *everywhere* that mention about AC and on game forums such as AOC, WAR, POTBC you get people talking about how great AC1 is and was. Face it peeps, AC1 was a far superior game to WoW - it had a brilliant classless system, excellent PvP, minimal gear based play, rich lore and an awsome PvP server to boot. It actually requires skilled brains to play. Ask anyone who played AC, and they will tell you 90% of the time it was one of the best gaming experiences they ever had.
AC was built for fun, whereas WoW was built for money.
People cant say that about WoW. Its a no brainer - AC is superior in so many ways.
Im no wow fanboi.... all I know is that when I played EQ I gave AC a go... i still have the original retail box. AC was terrible... yes it has a following ... but so do Fred and Rosmary West and Charles Manson.
By the way nice detective work... with your 'you dont like it so you have no experience in that area notion' fact is I have played and tested almost all the MMORPGs you have seen... well the pay to play ones. Suprising ly add that to the fact that I am a graduate games designer i think i can pretty much deduce wether a game will be hitting the shelves in a major games store or be thrown into the advertisement catagory of "Coming to an ASDA bargin bin near you..." introduction.... AC sucked.... thats my opinion... im not a hater.... we are all here to give our opinions so that others can base their next comment on it.
Ooohh wow look all whos high and mighty, a graduate games designer!!!
Sadly even game designers themselves admit that you really cant be taught the proffession, hence the example that we have above. No one can really predict if a game is going to bomb or do great, if they did the gaming industry would not be the same (im talking relative terms here, there are tell tale signs when its close to release).
Btw, im not critizing you on your opinion (god forbid) but your post was amazingly childish and imitative of WoW fanbois. Its content was pretty much "AC is teh sux0r keke!!!" It seems to me that anyone can walk into your school and back out with a nice little plague that says "graduate game designer" for themselves any time they want, judging from that previous post. I guess the award looks nice on your wall, doesnt it? Maybe I'll get one for myself.
And judging from the 5+ pages of content, the post was certainly not pointless.
Here's where you are WRONG and where the ratings on mmorpg.com beat out other rating websites.
Read: Out of the myriad of gaming sites, this is the only site that supports my conclusions, thus this is the only site that is right. Because I'M right.
Originally posted by zaxtor99
Furthermore, those of you who point out other reviews where a single reviewer gave a game a score can also be questioned. These reviewers gave a single one-person review of a BIG TIME Blizzard game. First of all, rating any Blizzard game lower then a 95% would probably instantly draw disrespect to the organization or magazine to which that reviewer worked for, especially with the huge number of fans WoW saw. Secondly, these reviewers were much more focused on reviewing the games graphics, sounds, etc and all the elements of a game and how smoothly it works then they were rating the game for it's fun factor. Also, almost none of these reviews were reviewed after enough game time to see how quickly the game becomes "boring" and how damn immature the gaming community is.
Read: Everyone else is wrong. I'm right. Also, check out the ratings for The Burning Crusade. They're still high, and they were all rated after enough 'game time'. But nevermind I guess, since every professional game reviewer is wrong.
Originally posted by zaxtor99 THUS, because there are millions of WoW loving sheep voting it a 10 across the board, it's rating on those other sites will be much more skewed towards a higher score.
Read: It doesn't matter that millions of people think WoW is a good game. It doesn't matter that they're happy playing WoW! They are wrong.
Asherons Call is the superior game, and it wins easily if compared to WoW. Anyone who disagrees either didn't play AC in its peak years, is lying, or is a minority of the players who experienced AC in it's glory days.
WoW was built for money. AC was built for fun. That is the most accurate statement on this thread so far. It oozes TRUTH and that little thing called "hitting the nail on the head". And that is why AC will always be greater then WoW, regardless of the financial success or the number of players. Quality is always more important to me then Quantity.
So I guess now I can go off saying that Guild Wars is superior to AC, EQ2 is superior to AC, UO is superior to AC, LOTRO is superior to AC...etc. Because that's what it says on MMORPG.com, and the world revolves around MMORPG.com.
I like how you think you're so much superior to everyone else. If someone comes along and says they like WoW more than AC...well THEIR OPINION IS WRONG! But I'm right, so you should listen to me.
The only thing I got out of reading your paragraphs of propaganda is that you like AC better than WoW. That's fine, that's what you like. I'll accept it. I'm not going to downplay your opinion, though I may disagree with it. You can try to reason why thousands of other people are wrong, why people who love a game don't mater, and why professional game reviewers don't matter, but the only person you're fooling is yourself.
...Go and read a few of the reviews from other players for both games. Do it here, do it on Yahoo game reviews, do it on any site where the players have a chance to voice their opinions of the said games. And you'll get the same result. Many, many statements such as "best mmo gaming experience ever!" for Asherons Call, and many, many statements such as "Simple and boring" for World of Warcraft. That kind of PLAYER feedback is not "me".
Speaking of me fooling myself, if you want to be a mindless sheep and look only at the populations of any game and base it's quality and fun factors on that alone, then you are the one who is really fooling yourself.
Furthermore, I make my statements after playing BOTH games. I played WOW and got two characters, one level 38, one level 50. I also played AC during it's peak. So I make my statements on heavy experience of both games. Can YOU honestly say the same??? If not, then why are you even posting? ... I mean really.
- Zaxx
It can't be the best game ever because it's not on the top of MMORPG.com's rating list.
And if you were to take every review saying "Best game ever" for WoW and AC, WoW would have more "best game ever" reviews. WoW would also have more "boring game" reviews. Because WoW simply has more players.
No, I haven't played AC, so I obviously don't know how fun it is. But you can't just say "Ok, go look at these websites, but ignore all the professional reviews, and ignore all the player submitted rankings. ONLY look at the player submitted reviews. Then you'll see which is the best!" That's just silly.
Oh, and the reason I've never played it? I see no reason to. I never base my opinions on mere player opinions alone...every game will have its loyal "THIS IS THE BEST GAME EVER" followers, and they're simply not worth listening to because then every game would be the best game ever. I look at professional reviews, and reviews of my personal gaming friends. None of the profesional reviews say anything that makes me want to play it, and I only have one or two friends who've played it, and they've never urged me on to try it.
I'm not going to spend any more time in this thread, so I'll just end with this:
Professional game reviewers are more reliable than player-submitted opinions. You can't just downplay the professionals just because you disagree with them, or because you think there's some conspiracy that they're paid by Blizzard to give its games high scores or such nonsense.
Personally I think pre-CU SWG was better than WoW. And I could throw a bunch of "BEST GAME EVER" reviews in your face to support my opinion. That's what was best for me. And apparently AC was the best for you. I'm not going to come here and say "Your opinion is wrong." And I have no qualms with you thinking AC was the best game ever. But you can't take your own personal opinion and use that to disqualify everyone else who disagrees with you.
Wow, its seems that youre against the whole "I'm going to try to convince people that maybe this game is superior to others" thing that happens on these forums. Hey...what did I just say. These are forums, right? Oh yeah...we're supposed to do that stuff.
He isnt saying your opinion "is wrong" go look back at his posts. He's simply stating the facts that he thinks is true, and stating his own opinio, and trying to back it up with some facts and explainations as to why he thinks its a great game. If you dont like people explaining and sharing their opinions then stay off forums all together. No, dont use the whole "oh no you think youre superior to everyone, so what you say is complete BS" thats a strategy used over and over and it doesnt work. He was simply stating what he thought was best. Where did he say that "everyone is wrong and I'm right?" wow, i never seen such blatant disregard and bias while reading a post. Good job. These forums are for discussion, and thats what Zax is doing, but youre having trouble replying, half the time youre going off ranting and whining about how hes "imposing his opinions". Hes really just sharing what he thinks with everyone else.
What, you dont like that? Then get off these forums, thats what discussion boards are for.
Where did he say that everyone is wrong and he's right?
"Furthermore, those of you who point out other reviews where a single reviewer gave a game a score can also be questioned."
"THUS, because there are millions of WoW loving sheep voting it a 10 across the board, it's rating on those other sites will be much more skewed towards a higher score."
" Anyone who disagrees either didn't play AC in its peak years, is lying, or is a minority of the players who experienced AC in it's glory days."
In the first quote, he's saying all the professional reviewers are wrong...and they just happen to disagree with him on AC's supremacy.
Second quote, calling people who enjoy WoW "sheep" is attempting to downplay their opinions, as if they have no minds and love WoW because they're addicted or something. If you like AC, then you're cool and you know what's up. But if you like WoW...you're just a mindless sheep. It's also attempting to discredit the player-submitted rankings (which also disagree with him).
Third quote needs no explanation.
So, the professional game reviewers are wrong, the player submitted ratings are wrong, and anyone who disagrees either hasn't played AC or is a lier.
Your reply and AC have alot in common... they are both lame.
btw the university I go to starts off with a class of 80 and it soon dwindles down to the people who can actually hack it, unfortunatly a pathetic (wow, another thing your reply and AC have in common) number. Though I guess working those long hours 9-5 in a job thats hated can take its toll on people (dont worry im not suggesting you are employed)
IMHO EQ was greater than AC... this is up for debate is it not?
and another thing... oh wait no... no ... i lost interest............................................
I said professional game reviewers CAN be questioned, especially when you are reviewing a big time mmo from such a highly respected game company like Blizzard. Could you imagine the outcry that would result if someone actually reviewed WoW at a 68% score, even if that was their honest opinions of the game?
I didn't dis-credit any REALISTIC players ratings at all. I said that many sights other then this one factor in all of the 10 scores across the board for a game which leads to skewed results, especially considering the HUGE number of WoW fans that you know are rating the game at perfect 10's in every area.
Yes, I did call a lot of the WOW players "sheep".. and I hold that opinion to be true as I see it.
And I said that "Anyone who disagrees that AC is better then WOW who honestly played the game DURING it's peak is either lying (about honestly playing AC in its peak), they didn't play the game at all, or that they would be in the MINORITY (of the people who actually played both games during their peaks).
You left out part of what I said. You also left out that I stated that I FEEL that way not based on FACT, Not based on BIAS, but based on my OPINION of my experience with both games.
If you are going to quote me to try and make me look bad, or to try and downplay my opinions, atleast give me the respect and quote fully what I said and where I was coming from.
Here's where you are WRONG and where the ratings on mmorpg.com beat out other rating websites.
Read: Out of the myriad of gaming sites, this is the only site that supports my conclusions, thus this is the only site that is right. Because I'M right.
Originally posted by zaxtor99
Furthermore, those of you who point out other reviews where a single reviewer gave a game a score can also be questioned. These reviewers gave a single one-person review of a BIG TIME Blizzard game. First of all, rating any Blizzard game lower then a 95% would probably instantly draw disrespect to the organization or magazine to which that reviewer worked for, especially with the huge number of fans WoW saw. Secondly, these reviewers were much more focused on reviewing the games graphics, sounds, etc and all the elements of a game and how smoothly it works then they were rating the game for it's fun factor. Also, almost none of these reviews were reviewed after enough game time to see how quickly the game becomes "boring" and how damn immature the gaming community is.
Read: Everyone else is wrong. I'm right. Also, check out the ratings for The Burning Crusade. They're still high, and they were all rated after enough 'game time'. But nevermind I guess, since every professional game reviewer is wrong.
Originally posted by zaxtor99 THUS, because there are millions of WoW loving sheep voting it a 10 across the board, it's rating on those other sites will be much more skewed towards a higher score.
Read: It doesn't matter that millions of people think WoW is a good game. It doesn't matter that they're happy playing WoW! They are wrong.
Asherons Call is the superior game, and it wins easily if compared to WoW. Anyone who disagrees either didn't play AC in its peak years, is lying, or is a minority of the players who experienced AC in it's glory days.
WoW was built for money. AC was built for fun. That is the most accurate statement on this thread so far. It oozes TRUTH and that little thing called "hitting the nail on the head". And that is why AC will always be greater then WoW, regardless of the financial success or the number of players. Quality is always more important to me then Quantity.
So I guess now I can go off saying that Guild Wars is superior to AC, EQ2 is superior to AC, UO is superior to AC, LOTRO is superior to AC...etc. Because that's what it says on MMORPG.com, and the world revolves around MMORPG.com.
I like how you think you're so much superior to everyone else. If someone comes along and says they like WoW more than AC...well THEIR OPINION IS WRONG! But I'm right, so you should listen to me.
The only thing I got out of reading your paragraphs of propaganda is that you like AC better than WoW. That's fine, that's what you like. I'll accept it. I'm not going to downplay your opinion, though I may disagree with it. You can try to reason why thousands of other people are wrong, why people who love a game don't mater, and why professional game reviewers don't matter, but the only person you're fooling is yourself.
...Go and read a few of the reviews from other players for both games. Do it here, do it on Yahoo game reviews, do it on any site where the players have a chance to voice their opinions of the said games. And you'll get the same result. Many, many statements such as "best mmo gaming experience ever!" for Asherons Call, and many, many statements such as "Simple and boring" for World of Warcraft. That kind of PLAYER feedback is not "me".
Speaking of me fooling myself, if you want to be a mindless sheep and look only at the populations of any game and base it's quality and fun factors on that alone, then you are the one who is really fooling yourself.
Furthermore, I make my statements after playing BOTH games. I played WOW and got two characters, one level 38, one level 50. I also played AC during it's peak. So I make my statements on heavy experience of both games. Can YOU honestly say the same??? If not, then why are you even posting? ... I mean really.
- Zaxx
It can't be the best game ever because it's not on the top of MMORPG.com's rating list.
And if you were to take every review saying "Best game ever" for WoW and AC, WoW would have more "best game ever" reviews. WoW would also have more "boring game" reviews. Because WoW simply has more players.
No, I haven't played AC, so I obviously don't know how fun it is. But you can't just say "Ok, go look at these websites, but ignore all the professional reviews, and ignore all the player submitted rankings. ONLY look at the player submitted reviews. Then you'll see which is the best!" That's just silly.
Oh, and the reason I've never played it? I see no reason to. I never base my opinions on mere player opinions alone...every game will have its loyal "THIS IS THE BEST GAME EVER" followers, and they're simply not worth listening to because then every game would be the best game ever. I look at professional reviews, and reviews of my personal gaming friends. None of the profesional reviews say anything that makes me want to play it, and I only have one or two friends who've played it, and they've never urged me on to try it.
I'm not going to spend any more time in this thread, so I'll just end with this:
Professional game reviewers are more reliable than player-submitted opinions. You can't just downplay the professionals just because you disagree with them, or because you think there's some conspiracy that they're paid by Blizzard to give its games high scores or such nonsense.
Personally I think pre-CU SWG was better than WoW. And I could throw a bunch of "BEST GAME EVER" reviews in your face to support my opinion. That's what was best for me. And apparently AC was the best for you. I'm not going to come here and say "Your opinion is wrong." And I have no qualms with you thinking AC was the best game ever. But you can't take your own personal opinion and use that to disqualify everyone else who disagrees with you.
Wow, its seems that youre against the whole "I'm going to try to convince people that maybe this game is superior to others" thing that happens on these forums. Hey...what did I just say. These are forums, right? Oh yeah...we're supposed to do that stuff.
He isnt saying your opinion "is wrong" go look back at his posts. He's simply stating the facts that he thinks is true, and stating his own opinio, and trying to back it up with some facts and explainations as to why he thinks its a great game. If you dont like people explaining and sharing their opinions then stay off forums all together. No, dont use the whole "oh no you think youre superior to everyone, so what you say is complete BS" thats a strategy used over and over and it doesnt work. He was simply stating what he thought was best. Where did he say that "everyone is wrong and I'm right?" wow, i never seen such blatant disregard and bias while reading a post. Good job. These forums are for discussion, and thats what Zax is doing, but youre having trouble replying, half the time youre going off ranting and whining about how hes "imposing his opinions". Hes really just sharing what he thinks with everyone else.
What, you dont like that? Then get off these forums, thats what discussion boards are for.
Where did he say that everyone is wrong and he's right?
"Furthermore, those of you who point out other reviews where a single reviewer gave a game a score can also be questioned."
"THUS, because there are millions of WoW loving sheep voting it a 10 across the board, it's rating on those other sites will be much more skewed towards a higher score."
" Anyone who disagrees either didn't play AC in its peak years, is lying, or is a minority of the players who experienced AC in it's glory days."
In the first quote, he's saying all the professional reviewers are wrong...and they just happen to disagree with him on AC's supremacy.
Second quote, calling people who enjoy WoW "sheep" is attempting to downplay their opinions, as if they have no minds and love WoW because they're addicted or something. If you like AC, then you're cool and you know what's up. But if you like WoW...you're just a mindless sheep. It's also attempting to discredit the player-submitted rankings (which also disagree with him).
Third quote needs no explanation.
So, the professional game reviewers are wrong, the player submitted ratings are wrong, and anyone who disagrees either hasn't played AC or is a lier.
The first quote taken is out of context. Let me re-quote Zax here to get what he really means:
"Furthermore, those of you who point out other reviews where a single reviewer gave a game a score can also be questioned. These reviewers gave a single one-person review of a BIG TIME Blizzard game. First of all, rating any Blizzard game lower then a 95% would probably instantly draw disrespect to the organization or magazine to which that reviewer worked for, especially with the huge number of fans WoW saw. Secondly, these reviewers were much more focused on reviewing the games graphics, sounds, etc and all the elements of a game and how smoothly it works then they were rating the game for it's fun factor. Also, almost none of these reviews were reviewed after enough game time to see how quickly the game becomes "boring" and how damn immature the gaming community is."
What hes saying is that there were one man reviews for WoW, in which if the reviewer gave WoW a bad score they would look bad, considering the amount of people and the hype around the game. He is not telling you that "you are wrong and Im right" in the longshot; if you actually spent the time reading his post and trying to understand what hes trying to say, youd realize hes talking about one person reviews of a big Blizzard game and how they have to conform to not make themselves look bad.
Second quote: Sorry but its true. There are millions, of wow loving sheep. Maybe its a bit harsh, but that in no way is saying "my opinion is better than yours". Actually what hes saying is very true, there are sheep for every game, but the key in his argument is "millions." More people = higher score.
Third quote: " Anyone who disagrees either didn't play AC in its peak years, is lying, or is a minority of the players who experienced AC in it's glory days."
Meaning that the majority of people that played AC liked AC. Meaning that the people who disagree in saying AC is superior to WoW is in the minority.
Its his opinion, and its mine too. I dont think hes trying to shove it down your throat, he isnt saying "hes right everyone else is wrong this is it" hes just telling you how it is.
EDIT: I posted this before I saw Zax's reply, IMO.
WoW fans don't get pissed when people point out the flaws or problems. They get pissed at the way it's said, because apparently everyone who has something bad to say about WoW has a PhD in EVERYTHING. It's not what you say but the all knowing jack ass way you put it.
WoWs rating went down, OH NO! WoWs price went down, OH NO! Could it be so people will be more compelled to buy BC and WoW at the same time instead of waiting to see if you like WoW enough to buy the expansion. WHAT a clever marketing scheme from a company trying to sell a product WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN THE WORLD!
Here's where you are WRONG and where the ratings on mmorpg.com beat out other rating websites.
Read: Out of the myriad of gaming sites, this is the only site that supports my conclusions, thus this is the only site that is right. Because I'M right.
Originally posted by zaxtor99
Furthermore, those of you who point out other reviews where a single reviewer gave a game a score can also be questioned. These reviewers gave a single one-person review of a BIG TIME Blizzard game. First of all, rating any Blizzard game lower then a 95% would probably instantly draw disrespect to the organization or magazine to which that reviewer worked for, especially with the huge number of fans WoW saw. Secondly, these reviewers were much more focused on reviewing the games graphics, sounds, etc and all the elements of a game and how smoothly it works then they were rating the game for it's fun factor. Also, almost none of these reviews were reviewed after enough game time to see how quickly the game becomes "boring" and how damn immature the gaming community is.
Read: Everyone else is wrong. I'm right. Also, check out the ratings for The Burning Crusade. They're still high, and they were all rated after enough 'game time'. But nevermind I guess, since every professional game reviewer is wrong.
Originally posted by zaxtor99 THUS, because there are millions of WoW loving sheep voting it a 10 across the board, it's rating on those other sites will be much more skewed towards a higher score.
Read: It doesn't matter that millions of people think WoW is a good game. It doesn't matter that they're happy playing WoW! They are wrong.
Asherons Call is the superior game, and it wins easily if compared to WoW. Anyone who disagrees either didn't play AC in its peak years, is lying, or is a minority of the players who experienced AC in it's glory days. WoW was built for money. AC was built for fun. That is the most accurate statement on this thread so far. It oozes TRUTH and that little thing called "hitting the nail on the head". And that is why AC will always be greater then WoW, regardless of the financial success or the number of players. Quality is always more important to me then Quantity.
So I guess now I can go off saying that Guild Wars is superior to AC, EQ2 is superior to AC, UO is superior to AC, LOTRO is superior to AC...etc. Because that's what it says on MMORPG.com, and the world revolves around MMORPG.com. I like how you think you're so much superior to everyone else. If someone comes along and says they like WoW more than AC...well THEIR OPINION IS WRONG! But I'm right, so you should listen to me. The only thing I got out of reading your paragraphs of propaganda is that you like AC better than WoW. That's fine, that's what you like. I'll accept it. I'm not going to downplay your opinion, though I may disagree with it. You can try to reason why thousands of other people are wrong, why people who love a game don't mater, and why professional game reviewers don't matter, but the only person you're fooling is yourself.
...Go and read a few of the reviews from other players for both games. Do it here, do it on Yahoo game reviews, do it on any site where the players have a chance to voice their opinions of the said games. And you'll get the same result. Many, many statements such as "best mmo gaming experience ever!" for Asherons Call, and many, many statements such as "Simple and boring" for World of Warcraft. That kind of PLAYER feedback is not "me". Speaking of me fooling myself, if you want to be a mindless sheep and look only at the populations of any game and base it's quality and fun factors on that alone, then you are the one who is really fooling yourself. Furthermore, I make my statements after playing BOTH games. I played WOW and got two characters, one level 38, one level 50. I also played AC during it's peak. So I make my statements on heavy experience of both games. Can YOU honestly say the same??? If not, then why are you even posting? ... I mean really.
- Zaxx
It can't be the best game ever because it's not on the top of MMORPG.com's rating list.
And if you were to take every review saying "Best game ever" for WoW and AC, WoW would have more "best game ever" reviews. WoW would also have more "boring game" reviews. Because WoW simply has more players. No, I haven't played AC, so I obviously don't know how fun it is. But you can't just say "Ok, go look at these websites, but ignore all the professional reviews, and ignore all the player submitted rankings. ONLY look at the player submitted reviews. Then you'll see which is the best!" That's just silly. Oh, and the reason I've never played it? I see no reason to. I never base my opinions on mere player opinions alone...every game will have its loyal "THIS IS THE BEST GAME EVER" followers, and they're simply not worth listening to because then every game would be the best game ever. I look at professional reviews, and reviews of my personal gaming friends. None of the profesional reviews say anything that makes me want to play it, and I only have one or two friends who've played it, and they've never urged me on to try it. I'm not going to spend any more time in this thread, so I'll just end with this: Professional game reviewers are more reliable than player-submitted opinions. You can't just downplay the professionals just because you disagree with them, or because you think there's some conspiracy that they're paid by Blizzard to give its games high scores or such nonsense. Personally I think pre-CU SWG was better than WoW. And I could throw a bunch of "BEST GAME EVER" reviews in your face to support my opinion. That's what was best for me. And apparently AC was the best for you. I'm not going to come here and say "Your opinion is wrong." And I have no qualms with you thinking AC was the best game ever. But you can't take your own personal opinion and use that to disqualify everyone else who disagrees with you.
Wow, its seems that youre against the whole "I'm going to try to convince people that maybe this game is superior to others" thing that happens on these forums. Hey...what did I just say. These are forums, right? Oh yeah...we're supposed to do that stuff. He isnt saying your opinion "is wrong" go look back at his posts. He's simply stating the facts that he thinks is true, and stating his own opinio, and trying to back it up with some facts and explainations as to why he thinks its a great game. If you dont like people explaining and sharing their opinions then stay off forums all together. No, dont use the whole "oh no you think youre superior to everyone, so what you say is complete BS" thats a strategy used over and over and it doesnt work. He was simply stating what he thought was best. Where did he say that "everyone is wrong and I'm right?" wow, i never seen such blatant disregard and bias while reading a post. Good job. These forums are for discussion, and thats what Zax is doing, but youre having trouble replying, half the time youre going off ranting and whining about how hes "imposing his opinions". Hes really just sharing what he thinks with everyone else. What, you dont like that? Then get off these forums, thats what discussion boards are for.
Where did he say that everyone is wrong and he's right? "Furthermore, those of you who point out other reviews where a single reviewer gave a game a score can also be questioned." "THUS, because there are millions of WoW loving sheep voting it a 10 across the board, it's rating on those other sites will be much more skewed towards a higher score." " Anyone who disagrees either didn't play AC in its peak years, is lying, or is a minority of the players who experienced AC in it's glory days." In the first quote, he's saying all the professional reviewers are wrong...and they just happen to disagree with him on AC's supremacy. Second quote, calling people who enjoy WoW "sheep" is attempting to downplay their opinions, as if they have no minds and love WoW because they're addicted or something. If you like AC, then you're cool and you know what's up. But if you like WoW...you're just a mindless sheep. It's also attempting to discredit the player-submitted rankings (which also disagree with him). Third quote needs no explanation.
So, the professional game reviewers are wrong, the player submitted ratings are wrong, and anyone who disagrees either hasn't played AC or is a lier.
What hes saying is that there were one man reviews for WoW, in which if the reviewer gave WoW a bad score they would look bad, considering the amount of people and the hype around the game. He is not telling you that "you are wrong and Im right" in the longshot; if you actually spent the time reading his post and trying to understand what hes trying to say, youd realize hes talking about one person reviews of a big Blizzard game and how they have to conform to not make themselves look bad. Second quote: Sorry but its true. There are millions, of wow loving sheep. Maybe its a bit harsh, but that in no way is saying "my opinion is better than yours". Actually what hes saying is very true, there are sheep for every game, but the key in his argument is "millions." More people = higher score.
First part is just speculation, and I'd say is rubbish. There actually *are* reviewers who gave WoW low (75%ish) scores. But the general consensus is that WoW is/was a very good game.
And you'll have to explain to me why, if millions of people enjoy a game, they're called sheep. Why can't it just be accepted that it's just a good game?
Your reply and AC have alot in common... they are both lame. btw the university I go to starts off with a class of 80 and it soon dwindles down to the people who can actually hack it, unfortunatly a pathetic (wow, another thing your reply and AC have in common) number. Though I guess working those long hours 9-5 in a job thats hated can take its toll on people (dont worry im not suggesting you are employed) Bwhahahah! Was this a pathetic attempt at arguing, or flaming? Its really funny, actually. You dont even bother to quote me or anything, no argument. It seems to me your "university" teaches people how to make stupid posts and flame people over forums, more than design games. But I can see even you are having trouble in that department as well. Btw, I'm not employed, because I actually am a fellow student at a University. But unlike yours, we're taught stuff like math, science, and english - you know what, I better stop, I think I see some tears. Heres a tissue. Hope that degree looks nice on your wall . If you can pass Flaming 101, that is. IMHO EQ was greater than AC... this is up for debate is it not?
and another thing... oh wait no... no ... i lost interest............................................
First off congrats to AC for being in existence for about 8 years, rather impressive
Second you must have expected all of this considering how the topic is set up to attract those that hate or love wow.
So why is everyone who plays and enjoys WoW a sheep or some other degrading comment, for some it's there first MMO and generally anyone will defend the game that got them into this alternate reality, but regardless why all the hate directed to people that are enjoying themselves?
Fun Factor is what makes or breaks a game, if its not fun just play something else.
Possibly the dumbest thing ever said on MMORPG.com. Seeing as how SALES is all that really matters. And WoW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AC in SALES.
And I dont even like WoW, but at least im not so retarded to think AC was a better game worldwide.
EDIT: now go look at AC ratings. I gave it all 1s and called it a horrific game. And I've never played it. See how hugely flawed it is to think those ratings are actually a useful?
Originally posted by JMoney95 The players have spoken. Not in sales, but in ratings. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Possibly the dumbest thing ever said on MMORPG.com. Seeing as how SALES is all that really matters. And WoW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AC in SALES.
And I dont even like WoW, but at least im not so retarded to think AC was a better game worldwide.
Right. Sales is all that matters when it comes to the actual quality of a certain product. So in your mind, if Hyundai made a total piece of shit pickup truck and sold it at only $8,000 brand new, and 150 million idiots went out and bought the POS truck just because of the tempting price tag.. then suddenly that POS Hyundai pickup truck would be a better and higher quality truck then the Ford F150, the Toyota Tundra, and every other truck available??
Ofcourse, sales mean EVERYTHING. How are all of you people so naive as to actually believe that sales = quality ??? It's absolutely frustrating as hell to see so many people so clueless as to acually believe this shit. Are that many people that damn stupid? I'm not trying to flame, but geez. I am seriously frustrated as hell that there are so many people that acutally think that the volume of sales is the only important factor, and that it means everything.. that it translates directly to a products quality.
This is exactly why so many people who understand as I do that sales volumes don't equal or translate to a products quality in any form keep using the McDonalds analogy. And all of you people that can't let go of this "sales volume = quality" mindset keep saying it's comparing apples to oranges. No it isn't comparing apples to oranges when we bring up the McDonalds analogy. IT'S SIMPLY TRYING LIKE HELL TO POINT OUT THAT SALES VOLUME DOES NOT TRANSLATE DIRECTLY TO A PRODUCTS OVERALL QUALITY.
Come on people... I KNOW you are smarter then this. Please use the brains the good lord gave you and STOP saying the best shit in the world is that which sells the highest volumes. ARGH.
Bwhahahah! ? Was this a pathetic attempt at arguing, or flaming? I think a bit of both. Its really funny, actually. Yes I know. ^^ You dont even bother to quote me I find the reply button closer to the center of the screen... meh, just call me lazy. or anything, Im afraid you will have to be more specific.. anything is such a wide catagory. no argument. I find arguing wth people who have the IQ of a walnut to be bullying... im no bully ^^ It seems to me your "university" teaches people how to make stupid posts and flame people over forums, Amoungst other things... like games design. more than design games. I think you mean 'Designing Games'... but i'll let that one slide But I can see even you are having trouble in that department as well. Really? can I see your evidence? Btw, I'm not employed, because I actually am a fellow student at a University. But unlike yours, we're taught stuff like math, science, and english I dont know about you but I learned those things in Secondary school, not University. Here we are taught Advanced Maths, Advanced Science and English Literature. - you know what, I better stop, I think I see some tears. Heres a tissue. They are tears from yawning... I can assure you, sheer boredom.... well ... Warhammer Age of Reckoning isnt out yet you see. Thanks for the tissue btw. Hope that degree looks nice on your wall . Yes it does thank you ^^ I have even gone so far as to not get it in direct sunlight. After all .. I dont want it to lose its limited colours now. If you can pass Flaming 101, that is. Is that a quest? If so which game.... ooooh I hope it's an event.
Your agrument is pretty worthless though because WoW is a quality product. Not because a lot of people play it, but because it's a good game. It's a fun game to play. Video games weren't meant to challenge your intellect really, but to provide a diversion from real life. In that WoW succeeds so it is a good game IMO.
If you want to challenge yourself there are a lot better things to do it with then MMORPGs.
GuildWars is at 8.3 and Lord of the Rings Online is around 8.5 I believe. That tells me the ratings are pretty pointless. EQ and DAOC are both at 8.2 along with AC. Who cares? It's just a rating.
I didn't play WoW because everyone else did. I played the game in beta and enjoyed it for about one year after release. I was satisfied with the product.
Originally posted by Flyte27 Your agrument is pretty worthless though because WoW is a quality product.
Ya see? There are a few defenders of games like Asherons Call who try to point out that it is atleast as high a quality product as Wow, regardless of the sales volumes. And we get slapped with comments that we are just bashing the WoW crowd without any reason for doing so. We get treated like we are acting "holier then thou", etc etc...
But the statements like the above is fine. Our arguments are worthless. The ratings on this site are worthless (Because WoW<AC). This thread is pointless (because you don't agree with the OP's perspective).
2 or 3 AC defenders -vs- a buttload of WoW loving sheep, err sorry.. highly intelligent players (sorry). I guess the masses of WoW lovers in this very thread PROVE WoW is a much greater game too eh? Numbers mean everything. Bush MUST be a great US president and world leader because the numbers have voted him in twice now. It matters not what he actually does with his time in office at all. The numbers have PROVED he is great simply by voting him in. Nothing he does is bad now, he is already proven greatness by being voted in.
I guess that going along with the most common mindset here that Cubic Zirconia is greater then Diamonds. There is tons more Cubic Zirconia (CZ) sold in this world then there are real diamonds sold. So CZ>diamonds. Makes perfect sense to most of you I'm sure, and most of you will probably agree with that.
Your agrument is pretty worthless though because WoW is a quality product.
Ya see? There are a few defenders of games like Asherons Call who try to point out that it is atleast as high a quality product as Wow, regardless of the sales volumes. And we get slapped with comments that we are just bashing the WoW crowd without any reason for doing so. We get treated like we are acting "holier then thou", etc etc...
2 or 3 AC defenders -vs- a buttload of WoW loving sheep, err sorry.. highly intelligent players (sorry).
If calling WoW players 'sheep' is not bashing the WoW crowd, I'd hate to see what is.
Your agrument is pretty worthless though because WoW is a quality product.
Ya see? There are a few defenders of games like Asherons Call who try to point out that it is atleast as high a quality product as Wow, regardless of the sales volumes. And we get slapped with comments that we are just bashing the WoW crowd without any reason for doing so. We get treated like we are acting "holier then thou", etc etc...
But the statements like the above is fine. Our arguments are worthless. The ratings on this site are worthless (Because WoW<AC). This thread is pointless (because you don't agree with the OP's perspective).
2 or 3 AC defenders -vs- a buttload of WoW loving sheep, err sorry.. highly intelligent players (sorry). I guess the masses of WoW lovers in this very thread PROVE WoW is a much greater game too eh? Numbers mean everything. Bush MUST be a great US president and world leader because the numbers have voted him in twice now. It matters not what he actually does with his time in office at all. The numbers have PROVED he is great simply by voting him in. Nothing he does is bad now, he is already proven greatness by being voted in.
I guess that going along with the most common mindset here that SHIT is greater then Diamonds. There is tons more piles of shit in this world on farms and sewers everywhere then there are diamonds. So shit>diamonds. Makes perfect sense to mose of you I'm sure, and most of you will probably agree with that.
- Zaxx
The funny thing is you haven't proven that WoW isn't a quality product. Your sole reason for saying that WoW is a bad product is because it sold lots of copies. Is that a bit hypocritical? My favorite game is EQ and I've played a lot of the old games, but you are trying to impose your opinion on others. You stated your reasoning and yet you persist to try and force your opinion on others. Others have stated their feelings on WoW which have been rejected by yourself because the rating on this message board is all that matters. I guess you must feel that LOTRO and Guild Wars are the best MMORPGs out there right now and that EQ, UO, and DOAC are all as good as AC.
Lol bash-fest and post deletion a plenty in this all day battle of AC vs. WoW. To try to continue explaining how population numbers dont translate to quality here is a game for you: Tales of Pirates (5mil) Now have you heard of that game or played it or know anyone that played it and just loved it? So does its quantity mean its an amazing game. You are all about proof and websites that back ourselves up. Well here's a recent one. Updated June 13, 2007 and ranks top 10 MMO based on active subscription: http://gigaom.com/2007/06/13/top-ten-most-popular-mmos/ ... if you have even heard or played 5 of those top ten I will be amazed. Fact is quality beats quantity. More people have heard about AC and its low population then Habbo Hotel other then those that actually play it. Personally, as I said before, AC is a better well-rounded game and made for hard-core gamers, and WoW is for those players that dont play a lot. Also I think WoW has grown because of the advertising of the game and when it hit 4 million all the teenagers buddy's just joined up with their friends and is now the reason for immaturity within their community. It's whatever style best suits you. For more charts (a little outdated june 2006) for all you number/popularity sluts http://www.mmogchart.com/Analysis.html .... http://www.mmogchart.com/ ...
Lol bash-fest and post deletion a plenty in this all day battle of AC vs. WoW. To try to continue explaining how population numbers dont translate to quality here is a game for you: Tales of Pirates (5mil) Now have you heard of that game or played it or know anyone that played it and just loved it? So does its quantity mean its an amazing game. You are all about proof and websites that back ourselves up. Well here's a recent one. Updated June 13, 2007 and ranks top 10 MMO based on active subscription: http://gigaom.com/2007/06/13/top-ten-most-popular-mmos/ ... if you have even heard or played 5 of those top ten I will be amazed. Fact is quality beats quantity. More people have heard about AC and its low population then Habbo Hotel other then those that actually play it. Personally, as I said before, AC is a better well-rounded game and made for hard-core gamers, and WoW is for those players that dont play a lot. Also I think WoW has grown because of the advertising of the game and when it hit 4 million all the teenagers buddy's just joined up with their friends and is now the reason for immaturity within their community. It's whatever style best suits you. For more charts (a little outdated june 2006) for all you number/popularity sluts http://www.mmogchart.com/Analysis.html .... http://www.mmogchart.com/ ...
wow, runescape is the best game ever, it has more active users than WoW if you consider the free accounts also So Runescape is the best game EVER, I mean its more popular than WoW. Everyone go to runescape because OBVIOUSLY quantity means everything therefore runescape is the god of mmorpgs.
Comments
There selling the game for 20 and the expansion for 40, so new players = 60 more than what they orignally made from the first coppies. Its natural for games to drop their price when they have expansions because what new player wants to shell out 80- 100 dollars to play a game? just a side note lol
Point taken. Atleast $10 or $20 for the orginal WOW. $40 for the expansion. That's atleast $50 plus a monthly fee of $14.95.That's for a 8.1 mmo (According to thousands of players on this site as an average reflective score)
Now at www.direct2drive.com, you can get the latest offering of Asheron's Call which includes ALL of their expansions and almost 8 years of content for a mere $19.95. No tax. No driving to the store. And you can get an avg 8.2 mmo and an mmo which so many have made statements like "best mmo ever" and "best game out there" etc etc.
Yes, your average American would vote for GW Bush a third time IF only he could run and ruin again. Don't follow the mere numbers and masses. Look at the content of both games, look at all the "boring" type of reviews WoW has by players and all the "best game ever" type of statements in the Asherons Call reviews. Make an educated decision. Perhaps get a better game and save atleast $30 and a lower month fee of $12.95 with a game like Asherons Call.
...Just make a educated and intelligent decision is all that I ask. It's your money, sure. It's also your vote when you elect a president into office. Just don't mindlessly follow the masses is all that I ask. Is that really asking too much?
I played AC at pretty close to launch for a year. I went back and tried it 2 years ago and it was like playing an Atari 2600. They really need to update it.
... who cares...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Unlike probably 90% of people that continue to talk pointlessly, I have actually played both games in this "Which Game is Best" session. AC and WoW actually both have very different qualities within the two games. I had played AC from 2000-2001 and WoW in 2006. I'm not one to say whether each one is better but AC is closer to an EQ environment in its difficulty. AC can and will challenge you while you can sail through WoW. If you're hardcore, most likely, you're gonna prefer AC. If you wanna play for an hour and feel like you've achieved something play WoW. There is no best and Ratings I think do matter but unless its at least 1.0 better you can't compare the two based soley off ratings and populations.
Zaxtor, I'm very shocked by all your post in this thread. Usually you come up with some pretty convincing arguments. Everything you wrote in this thread though.. what's the a nice way of putting it. Makes you seem like a rabid fanboi for AC camp. All of them smack of of a ** I'll treat my opinion as if it's fact, while telling you that your opinion is wrong ** mentality. Pretty disappointing when I think back on alot of your other post over last year or so.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
No you havent.
You obviously never played AC, you obviously dont know what youre talking about, and you obviously need to make yourself stop looking so bad.
On another side note, the argument of "Well WoW has a huge subscriber base wheras AC has a miniscule amount so WoW is better" is tried, its used, and quite frankly, its wrong. Just becuase the majority of people are playing a game doesnt make it "right" in any sense. Just because people eat at Mcdonald's all the time doesnt mean that its healthy.
I see posts on gaming forums *everywhere* that mention about AC and on game forums such as AOC, WAR, POTBC you get people talking about how great AC1 is and was. Face it peeps, AC1 was a far superior game to WoW - it had a brilliant classless system, excellent PvP, minimal gear based play, rich lore and an awsome PvP server to boot. It actually requires skilled brains to play. Ask anyone who played AC, and they will tell you 90% of the time it was one of the best gaming experiences they ever had.
AC was built for fun, whereas WoW was built for money.
People cant say that about WoW. Its a no brainer - AC is superior in so many ways.
Im no wow fanboi.... all I know is that when I played EQ I gave AC a go... i still have the original retail box. AC was terrible... yes it has a following ... but so do Fred and Rosmary West and Charles Manson.
By the way nice detective work... with your 'you dont like it so you have no experience in that area notion' fact is I have played and tested almost all the MMORPGs you have seen... well the pay to play ones. Suprising ly add that to the fact that I am a graduate games designer i think i can pretty much deduce wether a game will be hitting the shelves in a major games store or be thrown into the advertisement catagory of "Coming to an ASDA bargin bin near you..." introduction.... AC sucked.... thats my opinion... im not a hater.... we are all here to give our opinions so that others can base their next comment on it.
No you havent.
You obviously never played AC, you obviously dont know what youre talking about, and you obviously need to make yourself stop looking so bad.
On another side note, the argument of "Well WoW has a huge subscriber base wheras AC has a miniscule amount so WoW is better" is tried, its used, and quite frankly, its wrong. Just becuase the majority of people are playing a game doesnt make it "right" in any sense. Just because people eat at Mcdonald's all the time doesnt mean that its healthy.
I see posts on gaming forums *everywhere* that mention about AC and on game forums such as AOC, WAR, POTBC you get people talking about how great AC1 is and was. Face it peeps, AC1 was a far superior game to WoW - it had a brilliant classless system, excellent PvP, minimal gear based play, rich lore and an awsome PvP server to boot. It actually requires skilled brains to play. Ask anyone who played AC, and they will tell you 90% of the time it was one of the best gaming experiences they ever had.
AC was built for fun, whereas WoW was built for money.
People cant say that about WoW. Its a no brainer - AC is superior in so many ways.
Im no wow fanboi.... all I know is that when I played EQ I gave AC a go... i still have the original retail box. AC was terrible... yes it has a following ... but so do Fred and Rosmary West and Charles Manson.
By the way nice detective work... with your 'you dont like it so you have no experience in that area notion' fact is I have played and tested almost all the MMORPGs you have seen... well the pay to play ones. Suprising ly add that to the fact that I am a graduate games designer i think i can pretty much deduce wether a game will be hitting the shelves in a major games store or be thrown into the advertisement catagory of "Coming to an ASDA bargin bin near you..." introduction.... AC sucked.... thats my opinion... im not a hater.... we are all here to give our opinions so that others can base their next comment on it.
Ooohh wow look all whos high and mighty, a graduate games designer!!!
Sadly even game designers themselves admit that you really cant be taught the proffession, hence the example that we have above. No one can really predict if a game is going to bomb or do great, if they did the gaming industry would not be the same (im talking relative terms here, there are tell tale signs when its close to release).
Btw, im not critizing you on your opinion (god forbid) but your post was amazingly childish and imitative of WoW fanbois. Its content was pretty much "AC is teh sux0r keke!!!" It seems to me that anyone can walk into your school and back out with a nice little plague that says "graduate game designer" for themselves any time they want, judging from that previous post. I guess the award looks nice on your wall, doesnt it? Maybe I'll get one for myself.
And judging from the 5+ pages of content, the post was certainly not pointless.
Read: It doesn't matter that millions of people think WoW is a good game. It doesn't matter that they're happy playing WoW! They are wrong.
Asherons Call is the superior game, and it wins easily if compared to WoW. Anyone who disagrees either didn't play AC in its peak years, is lying, or is a minority of the players who experienced AC in it's glory days.
WoW was built for money. AC was built for fun. That is the most accurate statement on this thread so far. It oozes TRUTH and that little thing called "hitting the nail on the head". And that is why AC will always be greater then WoW, regardless of the financial success or the number of players. Quality is always more important to me then Quantity.
So I guess now I can go off saying that Guild Wars is superior to AC, EQ2 is superior to AC, UO is superior to AC, LOTRO is superior to AC...etc. Because that's what it says on MMORPG.com, and the world revolves around MMORPG.com.
I like how you think you're so much superior to everyone else. If someone comes along and says they like WoW more than AC...well THEIR OPINION IS WRONG! But I'm right, so you should listen to me.
The only thing I got out of reading your paragraphs of propaganda is that you like AC better than WoW. That's fine, that's what you like. I'll accept it. I'm not going to downplay your opinion, though I may disagree with it. You can try to reason why thousands of other people are wrong, why people who love a game don't mater, and why professional game reviewers don't matter, but the only person you're fooling is yourself.
...Go and read a few of the reviews from other players for both games. Do it here, do it on Yahoo game reviews, do it on any site where the players have a chance to voice their opinions of the said games. And you'll get the same result. Many, many statements such as "best mmo gaming experience ever!" for Asherons Call, and many, many statements such as "Simple and boring" for World of Warcraft. That kind of PLAYER feedback is not "me".
Speaking of me fooling myself, if you want to be a mindless sheep and look only at the populations of any game and base it's quality and fun factors on that alone, then you are the one who is really fooling yourself.
Furthermore, I make my statements after playing BOTH games. I played WOW and got two characters, one level 38, one level 50. I also played AC during it's peak. So I make my statements on heavy experience of both games. Can YOU honestly say the same??? If not, then why are you even posting? ... I mean really.
- Zaxx
It can't be the best game ever because it's not on the top of MMORPG.com's rating list.
And if you were to take every review saying "Best game ever" for WoW and AC, WoW would have more "best game ever" reviews. WoW would also have more "boring game" reviews. Because WoW simply has more players.
No, I haven't played AC, so I obviously don't know how fun it is. But you can't just say "Ok, go look at these websites, but ignore all the professional reviews, and ignore all the player submitted rankings. ONLY look at the player submitted reviews. Then you'll see which is the best!" That's just silly.
Oh, and the reason I've never played it? I see no reason to. I never base my opinions on mere player opinions alone...every game will have its loyal "THIS IS THE BEST GAME EVER" followers, and they're simply not worth listening to because then every game would be the best game ever. I look at professional reviews, and reviews of my personal gaming friends. None of the profesional reviews say anything that makes me want to play it, and I only have one or two friends who've played it, and they've never urged me on to try it.
I'm not going to spend any more time in this thread, so I'll just end with this:
Professional game reviewers are more reliable than player-submitted opinions. You can't just downplay the professionals just because you disagree with them, or because you think there's some conspiracy that they're paid by Blizzard to give its games high scores or such nonsense.
Personally I think pre-CU SWG was better than WoW. And I could throw a bunch of "BEST GAME EVER" reviews in your face to support my opinion. That's what was best for me. And apparently AC was the best for you. I'm not going to come here and say "Your opinion is wrong." And I have no qualms with you thinking AC was the best game ever. But you can't take your own personal opinion and use that to disqualify everyone else who disagrees with you.
Wow, its seems that youre against the whole "I'm going to try to convince people that maybe this game is superior to others" thing that happens on these forums. Hey...what did I just say. These are forums, right? Oh yeah...we're supposed to do that stuff.
He isnt saying your opinion "is wrong" go look back at his posts. He's simply stating the facts that he thinks is true, and stating his own opinio, and trying to back it up with some facts and explainations as to why he thinks its a great game. If you dont like people explaining and sharing their opinions then stay off forums all together. No, dont use the whole "oh no you think youre superior to everyone, so what you say is complete BS" thats a strategy used over and over and it doesnt work. He was simply stating what he thought was best. Where did he say that "everyone is wrong and I'm right?" wow, i never seen such blatant disregard and bias while reading a post. Good job. These forums are for discussion, and thats what Zax is doing, but youre having trouble replying, half the time youre going off ranting and whining about how hes "imposing his opinions". Hes really just sharing what he thinks with everyone else.
What, you dont like that? Then get off these forums, thats what discussion boards are for.
Where did he say that everyone is wrong and he's right?
"Furthermore, those of you who point out other reviews where a single reviewer gave a game a score can also be questioned."
"THUS, because there are millions of WoW loving sheep voting it a 10 across the board, it's rating on those other sites will be much more skewed towards a higher score."
" Anyone who disagrees either didn't play AC in its peak years, is lying, or is a minority of the players who experienced AC in it's glory days."
In the first quote, he's saying all the professional reviewers are wrong...and they just happen to disagree with him on AC's supremacy.
Second quote, calling people who enjoy WoW "sheep" is attempting to downplay their opinions, as if they have no minds and love WoW because they're addicted or something. If you like AC, then you're cool and you know what's up. But if you like WoW...you're just a mindless sheep. It's also attempting to discredit the player-submitted rankings (which also disagree with him).
Third quote needs no explanation.
So, the professional game reviewers are wrong, the player submitted ratings are wrong, and anyone who disagrees either hasn't played AC or is a lier.
Your reply and AC have alot in common... they are both lame.
btw the university I go to starts off with a class of 80 and it soon dwindles down to the people who can actually hack it, unfortunatly a pathetic (wow, another thing your reply and AC have in common) number. Though I guess working those long hours 9-5 in a job thats hated can take its toll on people (dont worry im not suggesting you are employed)
IMHO EQ was greater than AC... this is up for debate is it not?
and another thing... oh wait no... no ... i lost interest............................................
No, let's re-read what I wrote... and WHY
I said professional game reviewers CAN be questioned, especially when you are reviewing a big time mmo from such a highly respected game company like Blizzard. Could you imagine the outcry that would result if someone actually reviewed WoW at a 68% score, even if that was their honest opinions of the game?
I didn't dis-credit any REALISTIC players ratings at all. I said that many sights other then this one factor in all of the 10 scores across the board for a game which leads to skewed results, especially considering the HUGE number of WoW fans that you know are rating the game at perfect 10's in every area.
Yes, I did call a lot of the WOW players "sheep".. and I hold that opinion to be true as I see it.
And I said that "Anyone who disagrees that AC is better then WOW who honestly played the game DURING it's peak is either lying (about honestly playing AC in its peak), they didn't play the game at all, or that they would be in the MINORITY (of the people who actually played both games during their peaks).
You left out part of what I said. You also left out that I stated that I FEEL that way not based on FACT, Not based on BIAS, but based on my OPINION of my experience with both games.
If you are going to quote me to try and make me look bad, or to try and downplay my opinions, atleast give me the respect and quote fully what I said and where I was coming from.
- Zaxx
Read: It doesn't matter that millions of people think WoW is a good game. It doesn't matter that they're happy playing WoW! They are wrong.
Asherons Call is the superior game, and it wins easily if compared to WoW. Anyone who disagrees either didn't play AC in its peak years, is lying, or is a minority of the players who experienced AC in it's glory days.
WoW was built for money. AC was built for fun. That is the most accurate statement on this thread so far. It oozes TRUTH and that little thing called "hitting the nail on the head". And that is why AC will always be greater then WoW, regardless of the financial success or the number of players. Quality is always more important to me then Quantity.
So I guess now I can go off saying that Guild Wars is superior to AC, EQ2 is superior to AC, UO is superior to AC, LOTRO is superior to AC...etc. Because that's what it says on MMORPG.com, and the world revolves around MMORPG.com.
I like how you think you're so much superior to everyone else. If someone comes along and says they like WoW more than AC...well THEIR OPINION IS WRONG! But I'm right, so you should listen to me.
The only thing I got out of reading your paragraphs of propaganda is that you like AC better than WoW. That's fine, that's what you like. I'll accept it. I'm not going to downplay your opinion, though I may disagree with it. You can try to reason why thousands of other people are wrong, why people who love a game don't mater, and why professional game reviewers don't matter, but the only person you're fooling is yourself.
...Go and read a few of the reviews from other players for both games. Do it here, do it on Yahoo game reviews, do it on any site where the players have a chance to voice their opinions of the said games. And you'll get the same result. Many, many statements such as "best mmo gaming experience ever!" for Asherons Call, and many, many statements such as "Simple and boring" for World of Warcraft. That kind of PLAYER feedback is not "me".
Speaking of me fooling myself, if you want to be a mindless sheep and look only at the populations of any game and base it's quality and fun factors on that alone, then you are the one who is really fooling yourself.
Furthermore, I make my statements after playing BOTH games. I played WOW and got two characters, one level 38, one level 50. I also played AC during it's peak. So I make my statements on heavy experience of both games. Can YOU honestly say the same??? If not, then why are you even posting? ... I mean really.
- Zaxx
It can't be the best game ever because it's not on the top of MMORPG.com's rating list.
And if you were to take every review saying "Best game ever" for WoW and AC, WoW would have more "best game ever" reviews. WoW would also have more "boring game" reviews. Because WoW simply has more players.
No, I haven't played AC, so I obviously don't know how fun it is. But you can't just say "Ok, go look at these websites, but ignore all the professional reviews, and ignore all the player submitted rankings. ONLY look at the player submitted reviews. Then you'll see which is the best!" That's just silly.
Oh, and the reason I've never played it? I see no reason to. I never base my opinions on mere player opinions alone...every game will have its loyal "THIS IS THE BEST GAME EVER" followers, and they're simply not worth listening to because then every game would be the best game ever. I look at professional reviews, and reviews of my personal gaming friends. None of the profesional reviews say anything that makes me want to play it, and I only have one or two friends who've played it, and they've never urged me on to try it.
I'm not going to spend any more time in this thread, so I'll just end with this:
Professional game reviewers are more reliable than player-submitted opinions. You can't just downplay the professionals just because you disagree with them, or because you think there's some conspiracy that they're paid by Blizzard to give its games high scores or such nonsense.
Personally I think pre-CU SWG was better than WoW. And I could throw a bunch of "BEST GAME EVER" reviews in your face to support my opinion. That's what was best for me. And apparently AC was the best for you. I'm not going to come here and say "Your opinion is wrong." And I have no qualms with you thinking AC was the best game ever. But you can't take your own personal opinion and use that to disqualify everyone else who disagrees with you.
Wow, its seems that youre against the whole "I'm going to try to convince people that maybe this game is superior to others" thing that happens on these forums. Hey...what did I just say. These are forums, right? Oh yeah...we're supposed to do that stuff.
He isnt saying your opinion "is wrong" go look back at his posts. He's simply stating the facts that he thinks is true, and stating his own opinio, and trying to back it up with some facts and explainations as to why he thinks its a great game. If you dont like people explaining and sharing their opinions then stay off forums all together. No, dont use the whole "oh no you think youre superior to everyone, so what you say is complete BS" thats a strategy used over and over and it doesnt work. He was simply stating what he thought was best. Where did he say that "everyone is wrong and I'm right?" wow, i never seen such blatant disregard and bias while reading a post. Good job. These forums are for discussion, and thats what Zax is doing, but youre having trouble replying, half the time youre going off ranting and whining about how hes "imposing his opinions". Hes really just sharing what he thinks with everyone else.
What, you dont like that? Then get off these forums, thats what discussion boards are for.
Where did he say that everyone is wrong and he's right?
"Furthermore, those of you who point out other reviews where a single reviewer gave a game a score can also be questioned."
"THUS, because there are millions of WoW loving sheep voting it a 10 across the board, it's rating on those other sites will be much more skewed towards a higher score."
" Anyone who disagrees either didn't play AC in its peak years, is lying, or is a minority of the players who experienced AC in it's glory days."
In the first quote, he's saying all the professional reviewers are wrong...and they just happen to disagree with him on AC's supremacy.
Second quote, calling people who enjoy WoW "sheep" is attempting to downplay their opinions, as if they have no minds and love WoW because they're addicted or something. If you like AC, then you're cool and you know what's up. But if you like WoW...you're just a mindless sheep. It's also attempting to discredit the player-submitted rankings (which also disagree with him).
Third quote needs no explanation.
So, the professional game reviewers are wrong, the player submitted ratings are wrong, and anyone who disagrees either hasn't played AC or is a lier.
The first quote taken is out of context. Let me re-quote Zax here to get what he really means:
"Furthermore, those of you who point out other reviews where a single reviewer gave a game a score can also be questioned. These reviewers gave a single one-person review of a BIG TIME Blizzard game. First of all, rating any Blizzard game lower then a 95% would probably instantly draw disrespect to the organization or magazine to which that reviewer worked for, especially with the huge number of fans WoW saw. Secondly, these reviewers were much more focused on reviewing the games graphics, sounds, etc and all the elements of a game and how smoothly it works then they were rating the game for it's fun factor. Also, almost none of these reviews were reviewed after enough game time to see how quickly the game becomes "boring" and how damn immature the gaming community is."
What hes saying is that there were one man reviews for WoW, in which if the reviewer gave WoW a bad score they would look bad, considering the amount of people and the hype around the game. He is not telling you that "you are wrong and Im right" in the longshot; if you actually spent the time reading his post and trying to understand what hes trying to say, youd realize hes talking about one person reviews of a big Blizzard game and how they have to conform to not make themselves look bad.
Second quote: Sorry but its true. There are millions, of wow loving sheep. Maybe its a bit harsh, but that in no way is saying "my opinion is better than yours". Actually what hes saying is very true, there are sheep for every game, but the key in his argument is "millions." More people = higher score.
Third quote: " Anyone who disagrees either didn't play AC in its peak years, is lying, or is a minority of the players who experienced AC in it's glory days."
Meaning that the majority of people that played AC liked AC. Meaning that the people who disagree in saying AC is superior to WoW is in the minority.
Its his opinion, and its mine too. I dont think hes trying to shove it down your throat, he isnt saying "hes right everyone else is wrong this is it" hes just telling you how it is.
EDIT: I posted this before I saw Zax's reply, IMO.
WoW fans don't get pissed when people point out the flaws or problems. They get pissed at the way it's said, because apparently everyone who has something bad to say about WoW has a PhD in EVERYTHING. It's not what you say but the all knowing jack ass way you put it.
WoWs rating went down, OH NO! WoWs price went down, OH NO! Could it be so people will be more compelled to buy BC and WoW at the same time instead of waiting to see if you like WoW enough to buy the expansion. WHAT a clever marketing scheme from a company trying to sell a product WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN THE WORLD!
First part is just speculation, and I'd say is rubbish. There actually *are* reviewers who gave WoW low (75%ish) scores. But the general consensus is that WoW is/was a very good game.
And you'll have to explain to me why, if millions of people enjoy a game, they're called sheep. Why can't it just be accepted that it's just a good game?
First off congrats to AC for being in existence for about 8 years, rather impressive
Second you must have expected all of this considering how the topic is set up to attract those that hate or love wow.
So why is everyone who plays and enjoys WoW a sheep or some other degrading comment, for some it's there first MMO and generally anyone will defend the game that got them into this alternate reality, but regardless why all the hate directed to people that are enjoying themselves?
Fun Factor is what makes or breaks a game, if its not fun just play something else.
The players have spoken. Not in sales, but in ratings.
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Possibly the dumbest thing ever said on MMORPG.com. Seeing as how SALES is all that really matters. And WoW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AC in SALES.
And I dont even like WoW, but at least im not so retarded to think AC was a better game worldwide.
EDIT: now go look at AC ratings. I gave it all 1s and called it a horrific game. And I've never played it. See how hugely flawed it is to think those ratings are actually a useful?
Right. Sales is all that matters when it comes to the actual quality of a certain product. So in your mind, if Hyundai made a total piece of shit pickup truck and sold it at only $8,000 brand new, and 150 million idiots went out and bought the POS truck just because of the tempting price tag.. then suddenly that POS Hyundai pickup truck would be a better and higher quality truck then the Ford F150, the Toyota Tundra, and every other truck available??
Ofcourse, sales mean EVERYTHING. How are all of you people so naive as to actually believe that sales = quality ??? It's absolutely frustrating as hell to see so many people so clueless as to acually believe this shit. Are that many people that damn stupid? I'm not trying to flame, but geez. I am seriously frustrated as hell that there are so many people that acutally think that the volume of sales is the only important factor, and that it means everything.. that it translates directly to a products quality.
This is exactly why so many people who understand as I do that sales volumes don't equal or translate to a products quality in any form keep using the McDonalds analogy. And all of you people that can't let go of this "sales volume = quality" mindset keep saying it's comparing apples to oranges. No it isn't comparing apples to oranges when we bring up the McDonalds analogy. IT'S SIMPLY TRYING LIKE HELL TO POINT OUT THAT SALES VOLUME DOES NOT TRANSLATE DIRECTLY TO A PRODUCTS OVERALL QUALITY.
Come on people... I KNOW you are smarter then this. Please use the brains the good lord gave you and STOP saying the best shit in the world is that which sells the highest volumes. ARGH.
{pulls hair out..}
- Zaxx
Your agrument is pretty worthless though because WoW is a quality product. Not because a lot of people play it, but because it's a good game. It's a fun game to play. Video games weren't meant to challenge your intellect really, but to provide a diversion from real life. In that WoW succeeds so it is a good game IMO.
If you want to challenge yourself there are a lot better things to do it with then MMORPGs.
GuildWars is at 8.3 and Lord of the Rings Online is around 8.5 I believe. That tells me the ratings are pretty pointless. EQ and DAOC are both at 8.2 along with AC. Who cares? It's just a rating.
I didn't play WoW because everyone else did. I played the game in beta and enjoyed it for about one year after release. I was satisfied with the product.
Ya see? There are a few defenders of games like Asherons Call who try to point out that it is atleast as high a quality product as Wow, regardless of the sales volumes. And we get slapped with comments that we are just bashing the WoW crowd without any reason for doing so. We get treated like we are acting "holier then thou", etc etc...
But the statements like the above is fine. Our arguments are worthless. The ratings on this site are worthless (Because WoW<AC). This thread is pointless (because you don't agree with the OP's perspective).
2 or 3 AC defenders -vs- a buttload of WoW loving sheep, err sorry.. highly intelligent players (sorry). I guess the masses of WoW lovers in this very thread PROVE WoW is a much greater game too eh? Numbers mean everything. Bush MUST be a great US president and world leader because the numbers have voted him in twice now. It matters not what he actually does with his time in office at all. The numbers have PROVED he is great simply by voting him in. Nothing he does is bad now, he is already proven greatness by being voted in.
I guess that going along with the most common mindset here that Cubic Zirconia is greater then Diamonds. There is tons more Cubic Zirconia (CZ) sold in this world then there are real diamonds sold. So CZ>diamonds. Makes perfect sense to most of you I'm sure, and most of you will probably agree with that.
- Zaxx
Ya see? There are a few defenders of games like Asherons Call who try to point out that it is atleast as high a quality product as Wow, regardless of the sales volumes. And we get slapped with comments that we are just bashing the WoW crowd without any reason for doing so. We get treated like we are acting "holier then thou", etc etc...
2 or 3 AC defenders -vs- a buttload of WoW loving sheep, err sorry.. highly intelligent players (sorry).
If calling WoW players 'sheep' is not bashing the WoW crowd, I'd hate to see what is.
Ya see? There are a few defenders of games like Asherons Call who try to point out that it is atleast as high a quality product as Wow, regardless of the sales volumes. And we get slapped with comments that we are just bashing the WoW crowd without any reason for doing so. We get treated like we are acting "holier then thou", etc etc...
But the statements like the above is fine. Our arguments are worthless. The ratings on this site are worthless (Because WoW<AC). This thread is pointless (because you don't agree with the OP's perspective).
2 or 3 AC defenders -vs- a buttload of WoW loving sheep, err sorry.. highly intelligent players (sorry). I guess the masses of WoW lovers in this very thread PROVE WoW is a much greater game too eh? Numbers mean everything. Bush MUST be a great US president and world leader because the numbers have voted him in twice now. It matters not what he actually does with his time in office at all. The numbers have PROVED he is great simply by voting him in. Nothing he does is bad now, he is already proven greatness by being voted in.
I guess that going along with the most common mindset here that SHIT is greater then Diamonds. There is tons more piles of shit in this world on farms and sewers everywhere then there are diamonds. So shit>diamonds. Makes perfect sense to mose of you I'm sure, and most of you will probably agree with that.
- Zaxx
The funny thing is you haven't proven that WoW isn't a quality product. Your sole reason for saying that WoW is a bad product is because it sold lots of copies. Is that a bit hypocritical? My favorite game is EQ and I've played a lot of the old games, but you are trying to impose your opinion on others. You stated your reasoning and yet you persist to try and force your opinion on others. Others have stated their feelings on WoW which have been rejected by yourself because the rating on this message board is all that matters. I guess you must feel that LOTRO and Guild Wars are the best MMORPGs out there right now and that EQ, UO, and DOAC are all as good as AC.
...Hmm perhaps calling them uncoordinated, unskilled, non challenge loving, mindless nerds, geeks, grandmas, and little kiddies.
I'm not saying that they are that, but that would be considered bashing the WoW crowd.
- Zaxx
...Hmm perhaps calling them uncoordinated, unskilled, non challenge loving, mindless nerds, geeks, grandmas, and little kiddies.
I'm not saying that they are that, but that would be considered bashing the WoW crowd.
- Zaxx
No, I'm pretty sure calling someone a sheep is bashing. You're just starting to become silly.
Lol bash-fest and post deletion a plenty in this all day battle of AC vs. WoW. To try to continue explaining how population numbers dont translate to quality here is a game for you: Tales of Pirates (5mil) Now have you heard of that game or played it or know anyone that played it and just loved it? So does its quantity mean its an amazing game. You are all about proof and websites that back ourselves up. Well here's a recent one. Updated June 13, 2007 and ranks top 10 MMO based on active subscription: http://gigaom.com/2007/06/13/top-ten-most-popular-mmos/ ... if you have even heard or played 5 of those top ten I will be amazed. Fact is quality beats quantity. More people have heard about AC and its low population then Habbo Hotel other then those that actually play it. Personally, as I said before, AC is a better well-rounded game and made for hard-core gamers, and WoW is for those players that dont play a lot. Also I think WoW has grown because of the advertising of the game and when it hit 4 million all the teenagers buddy's just joined up with their friends and is now the reason for immaturity within their community. It's whatever style best suits you. For more charts (a little outdated june 2006) for all you number/popularity sluts http://www.mmogchart.com/Analysis.html .... http://www.mmogchart.com/ ...
wow, runescape is the best game ever, it has more active users than WoW if you consider the free accounts also So Runescape is the best game EVER, I mean its more popular than WoW. Everyone go to runescape because OBVIOUSLY quantity means everything therefore runescape is the god of mmorpgs.
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I have a Youtube channel for video games! http://www.youtube.com/user/Vendayn