Originally posted by bufmufr M1sf1t. I am curious. I have read this entire thread. There are valid points to both sides. I am of the opinion that more levels/grind is good. Specially for the old vets. (Raids/farming gets old Really quick. And new bosses are nice. But once you beat one your level. What do the others do for you? ) New challenges equals new fun and invigoration and those start with the need to be a higher level then others. In my opinion.
I find mindlessly having to regrind new levels to do what I was already doing in the first place to be boring. I made it the level cap and now I want you to give me different ways to expand my characters. No I don't want you to use the easy way out and just tack on another 10 levels. For all that money am paying you every month along with millions of other people I want you to come up with something new and creative that does not negate my past efforts.
But why did You feel it necessary to start this thread and complain about what You feel it will do to WoW...when, in your games listing. You have WoW as having been tried.
Yes I played it. Did 1-60 and thought the game had potential if they moved away from the tired grind concepts. Played through TBC only to realize how limited and shallow the game was and how dependent was on forcing people to grind out areas of game play to progress. I was hoping Blizzard would of learned from TBC and improved. I am sorely disappointed hence the thread.
Is this not a relevant area to create a topic base around my disappoint at Blizzard MMO ? If we can't have any sort of discussions pro or for something then we might as well shut down MMORPG IMHO.
You are playing EQ2 and LoTRO..waiting for War. How does this affect you?
EQ2 and LOTRO right now have more depth then WoW. I probably won't continue on with EQ2 as I have no desire to hop on another 10 levels. Hopefully LOTRO won't head down this route either and will expand their content horizontally to flesh out and add more depth to their game world instead.
And why have you so vehemently defended the need for the levels NOT to go up? Just curious.
Because I don't suffer from OCD. I rather have something in a game that actually effects the game world or provides more information to the nature of the game world then mindlessly grinding out levels. If I wanted to mindlessly grind out levels I'd be play Archlord or Lineage 2. I much rather have deep and meaningful content then "10 levels to regrind = content" approach.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
I think the fact there's an argument like this going on at all speaks volumes about the state the game is in. I don't recall anything on this scale happening before TBC, sure there were a few threads here and there but nothing like now where every forum everywhere with people who play WoW in it are all having the same discussion, with largely the same points being raised.
I think the fact there's an argument like this going on at all speaks volumes about the state the game is in. I don't recall anything on this scale happening before TBC, sure there were a few threads here and there but nothing like now where every forum everywhere with people who play WoW in it are all having the same discussion, with largely the same points being raised.
The only way you could think that is if you didn't visit any forums before BC. Every thread was "GREENS>PURPLES RAIDS ARE OBSOLETE MY GUILD IS LEAVING THIS GAME IS DEAD!!!"
Nothing on this website speaks volumes about WoW. Nothing on this website says anything about WoW, if you want to find people who will really throw a fit and mean it look at WoW R&D.
i posted this in another thread, but i'll edit it a bit and post it here since it's still relevant.
Now for the record my wow account has been inactive for months, and i don't plan on playing till this next xpac, so it's not as if i LOVE WOW, this is all just logical, non idiotic observation.
1. WoW will always be WoW. I'm sorry if your expecting WoW to suddenly change the way mmorpgs are played, with entire combat revamps, redesigns to the entire item curve, and a total overhaul to crafting... your going to be disappointed. MMORPGs grow and adapt over time, but they never truely reinvent themselves without completely starting a new game, which eq2 did to eq1. No game i've ever played has ever released a xpac that changed the game to be a totally different game.
2. Level 80... This is a necessary step. Sure raid content now will be obsolete, but this is how mmorpgs work, new content will always be better then old content... always.
First let's assume they would make a xpac without a level cap increase. They plan to add at least outland size content with each xpac. So would they add a entire continent with mobs at 70?
Now your so against making old content obsolete. All quests for solo/group play will be worse then kara gear. All 5 mans will be = to current 5 mans, and worse then kara. So... why do the content? For "fun" i'm sorry but questing for 100 hours for crap gear, no upgrades, and no advancement, is just worthless, and nobody would do it expect for people who are already desperately bored.
If they were to add another 10 man, it would be a step up from kara, finishing off T4 sets, and a little T5, all of which is already in the game, for the few people who do kara but never step into gruul ssc or mag.... then this would be a advantage for them, but again it wouldn't be overly exciting since the gear is barely a upgrade.
Now for 25 mans.... You know less then 10-20% of wow players will EVER EVER EVER EVER finish BT regardless of how long it is in the system? Go look up boss trackers for hyjal which is a stepping stone to bt. about 9000-10000 people have killed the final boss. and the xpacs been out for what? 6-7 months? give it another year and we have what 30,000-40,000 people who have killed it? Out of 9 million?
If they were to add more raids to the 70 end game without making the current ones obsolete, they either have to be A. sidegrades to existing gear at the same difficulty, would this make more people raid? Would people really spend the time learning this new instance for the same gear? Most of the content would be POST BT, which means even FEWER people would see it, you'll see quite a few people starting gruul/ssc etc. but how many people will experience the 5 raids post BT?
At the same time, the people who do get access to this content, would advance SO much further compared to non raiders and new players, there would be NO comparison. If your tank ever stopped playing or was unable to play, you'd have to recruit a new tank, gear him up through all the tiers, and then start your high end progression all over again. The gap would just be too large. Same for pvp, arena tier gear will keep growing and growing, but at the same time new players will be wanting to enter the arena, and the gap would be even more noticeable then. You could argue for gear matching. But the high end players will be fighting the same people over and over and over and over and over. while the low end will be vs the masses. And at the same time, this negates the purpose of gearing up. If you get stronger gear and then fight people who have the same level gear, why even bother getting new gear, you won't be stronger in comparison. Like a level 10 fighting a 10 mob, and a 11 fighting a 11 mob, the 11 is stronger against the 10, but it's just as strong against the 11, as the 10 is against the 10.
That's why they can't NOT obsolete current instances and arena tiers. Because it's got to be accessable and worthwhile for the majority of players.
That is the way wow works.
You can argue that they could add "hero levels" and keep your current gear(untill you get into even higher tiers of it). But the problem with this is. Hero classes would be nothing but each "tree" personified as a stronger form. And the developers have said(and wisely so) that this is against their design because it would require giving up things, and players wouldn't want to do it, or be overly excited about it. You can say "but you can respec to other hero classes!" That's the same thing as talents, and in the end it just wouldn't be unique enough. And the hero levels would do what? The classes are already balanced around playstyles. Would it give my holy paladin aoe spells and hots? While losing any option of respecing to tank? Or respecing ret to farm? Or having a prot war... who is ALWAYS a prot war, and can't respec to pvp, or ALWAYS a arms war and can NEVER tank a end game instance?
Hero levels and classes just simply aren't a option as character advancement.
That's why theres 10 levels, that's why people will gear up 70-80. That's why tier 5-6 people will ride easy/cruise control till 80 raiding where they will start upgrading from a kara+ like instance. That's how it worked for naxx players and thats how it will work again. That way EVERYONE will be able to enjoy new content, that is worth doing, is beneficial, and is not a waste of time the moment it's added to the game.
3. The Death Knight.
This is NOT a ALPHA CLASS. Hero=/=alpha. The death knight will NOT tank better then the other tanks, and it will not dps better then other dpsers. It's a entirely new class, balanced to be the same power as other classes, just a different way to play. And that's what all hero classes will be. You unlock it through a quest(which sounds like you may actually be in direct contact with arthas in a non combat role, they stated arthas will be a part of the entire expansion, and not just a boss you get to and kill the end) and you can create it at level 55-70(undecided atm) That way it starts out feeling epic, and not a level 1 scrub. It won't be played more then any other class in the long run simply because it'll be a style of play thats not liked. It's why not everyone likes every class.
And to all the scrubs out there who feel a sense of entitlement "Blizzards adding a hero class? wtf there should be 20 hero classes, all of them completely new and unique with new spells and abilities without any copying! And they better all be balanced RIGHT AWAY otherwise i'll quit playing!" They stated they are working on one hero class at a time, and the first is the death knight. They want to be sure that this is balanced to be viable, while NOT replacing other classes. There WILL be more, when they are ready and able to devote the time to making/balancing it. It's a fully working class, with it's own talents, it's own spells, and own flavor. It takes a lot of time, and if they can they will add more hero classes with the xpac. But i'd rather have 1 fully working, well designed balanced class added a ways away from each other, instead of 10 classes which all are just copies of old ones, and either suck or are overpowered.
You people make me sick, they didn't even HAVE to make a new class. Oh look we are making a new class, and it's THE CLASS THAT HAS BEEN ASKED FOR SINCE BETA. "Ya but we want more!! give us 10 classes this sucks! why are deathknights being added! more more more!" Do you know how dumb you sound?
4. What exactly will we be missing from old content?
Zul'aman, BT, TK, Hyjal, SSC, Mag, Gruul, and the other raid being added prior to the xpac(maybe kara... but i could see it still being used, the gear from it still will be better then 70-73+ gear, while some exp is gained from running). So that's a bunch of raids that the minority of players will complete, get to farm status and do, before the xpac comes out. Is it such a big deal that you won't see some raid dungeons just because YOU sucked hard enough or started playing late enough that you were unable to get to them? Should they just not advance the game so the person who joins 5 years from now gets to play in kara?
Even if these were still available and the "side grade" raids were added, theres not enough time in the week to run every single raid unless you were beyond even the hardcore raiders. and they will simply do the ones that give the best gear.
All of outlands will still be there to be enjoyed by the players. 60-70 can and still will be done in outland. Thats ALOT of content. then at 70-80 you go to northrend and you experience MORE content. and then you get to see MORE raids which are JUST as unique, and JUST as fun as the current ones. and people will still do the 70 dungeons as they are leveling, just like how you see people do blood furnace and ramparts prior to 70, or even SM WC, VC, GR, RFK, and RFD, while they are leveling knowing there is better gear.
And really, one of the major complaints is people don't want to raid to get gear. Why do the same people get upset that the raids they hated aren't being required anymore? Talk about hypocrites.
5. But all the time i WORKED for the gear is wasted.
Guess what, if you have to "work" and "suffer" to get your gear and advance so you can work more. Then you need to either commit suicide or get a life. Because WoW is meant to be fun. If your not enjoying it, then guess what, your wasting your time regardless of it there being better gear later.
And guess what, if you like raiding, you like getting gear, and you like doing that stuff... Then your not wasting your time, because your having fun! And guess what? A video game isn't real, NOTHING you do in game matters in real life, bosses don't care if you have a level 70 orc rogue in full tier 6. You won't walk into a bar and people go "omg you see that! It's brutekillerzorz! He downed Illidan and got his epic shield! WoW i want him inside me!" EVENTUALLY you will quit wow, and eventually wow will get shut down. All your achievements won't matter then. Have fun and enjoy the game, and guess what? It doesn't matter if you replace all your gear, and you have to raid new stuff. Just have fun with it.
You can't play a mmorpg and expect to be able to "max" out your gear, and never upgrade it. You may be fine with running gruul for 13 years straight, but not everyone is.
This was to be known a LONG time ago. They announced that they would release an expansion every year~ almost a year ago. The point of WoW is to have fun. It's a shame that 95% of your time is spent leveling, standing around cities, partying with kids (since the community is sub-par), raiding for new gear (which will be void within months), and competing in bland PvP environments. The other 5% is spent when you aren't playing the game and you are itching to get on so you can fly on your epic flying mount.
It may have been to early to announce a expansion pack, because it may discourage some people to continue playing activly and raiding until the new exp pack comes. But I cant see the problem with raising the level cap? What else is there to do? Without it im not sure what they could have added? Okey alot of things but its naturally that your character progresses, and expansions pack usually raises the level bar. And if this exp pack doesnt come out before sometime next year everyone should have plenty of time to finish up in outlands and be pretty tired and maybe sick of it. And in my experience those who complain alot about expansion packs and more levels tend to forget about it when its released, I heard the same thing about The burning crusade, we all know what happened.
So. You haven't played since they raised the level cap to 70.
How has the population done since then?
Let's see. You would rather they just added more content for the level 70's currently. For you, that means nothing. Since you are 60, on a retired char.
Add on, most players need something active to do AFTER they have grinded to the max level. It has been how long since the Burning Crusades? How many times can you go through the current dungeons til you get bored? As another player said...40?
Ok. New material without xp/level gains means what? Just farming for new uber equipment. What about crafters?
Lastly. See Bladin's post. He covers what most players think about level cap increases including content.
And Sorry. But if you are not a current player(not even a old MAX level player) you don't have any business posting what YOU think about the new caps.
you realize this is what MMOs do right? They add stuff? The update stuff? The tinker with their game always changing it. Otherwise it would just be Warcraft 3.....
If you want a game that never changes... get the heck off the internet and plug in your sega genesis...
I think what the OP is kind of getting at is more that the game ISN'T changing.
10 more levels and more raids isn't change. It's the exact same thing a lot of people have been doing for the past couple of years.
Change would be "new" content. New content means you can do something you couldn't do before. I've been able to raid for quite some time now. How about something other then raiding?
I'm not against raising level caps, but if everytime the cap is raised I am only able to do the same thing I was doing at the previous level cap then things get rather boring.
I don't want to pay to grind more rep. I don't want to pay to grind more dungeons for more gear.
I mean, the last BG they added was just a combination of WSG, and AB. That wasn't new, it was just taking preexisting gameplay and combining it. How about zones in the actuall game world that have meaningful objectives, and a reason to kill other players other then thier name is red. How about some reward for killing someone in my level range outside of a BG? Kiling other players isn't even important. There is absolutely no reason to do it on a pvp server, other then to annoy them. You can't earn enough rep to advance in any way unless you do BG's. And you can't advance in level doing BG's.
How about some new skill trees for the classes? how about a completely seperate skill tree to further diversify my character, and make them dif. from every other mage that either pvp's or raids? How about a new sill tree that isn't set up around raid, pvp, and worthless (you know that 3rd tree that most classes don't use)?
How about guild housing, player housing, player controlled cities? How about some more diverse BG's? How about making the BG's have an impact on the world (the faction that is winning any particular BG consistantly gets something for the effort)?
There is a lot Blizz could do that would "change" the game. Currently the next expansion doesn't look like it's changing anything more then TBC changed the game.
Will you be able to fly in the new zone? Somehow, I dought it. So much for change.
this is exactly why i will stick with eq2 as a main fantasy mmo.
Blizzard has said from the very beginning, they had a planned level cap of 100. It shouldn't surprise anyone. The easiest way to add content is to add levels. Then you just slap some quests in, give people an area to fight mobs and you are pretty much good. Oh wait, isn't that what BC was? Blizzard has never really been an innovative company. To expect anything else is putting too much stock in Blizzard being a cutting edge development stupid and that just isn't who they are.
if i do decide to get expansion, which i prolly will. im one of the lucky ones, i have good blues from non heroic instances, as i hate faction grinding. but now that i know cap will go up, ill just sit happy at lv 70 with decent gear knowing that greens will be better than alot of purples.
Also, i wonder if u will be able to use flying mount in new place...or, will they add sea mounts that u will only be able to use in the ocean on new contonent
it might screw over ppl who raid (like me) but at least it keeps the game fresh instead of dulling it out like most other MMO's on the market, btw death knight class is just another class like paladin warlock or mage, its just another class for people to grind at; also, its not over powered (hero class is just a title, it means nothing at all) it'll have its weakness and its strength, so people saying that Death Knight is over powered pls read what blizzard said during blizzcon before makeing statements
You know, as much as this thread contains alot of views, opinions, and alot of crap, one thing remains certain. Reading this thread makes me even happier that I am not giving my money to Blizzard. If thats possible, that is Carrot on a stick anyone?
*cry* i know...i know....i wish i could stop, but i just cant...also, i wil be buying Star Craft 2 lol...Blizzard musta been good at monopoly. /wrist
The Death Knight class will work extremely well, but no it will not appeal to every player.
Blizzard copy concepts from every other company. Even without knowing what the Death Knight is, I will give you a fair idea of what a Death Knight will be able to do:
1- It will be the second best tanking class, yet it will have a huge weakness to something.
2- It will deliver tremendous amount of damage, rivaling with the best DPS, yet be slightly behind.
3- It will have a pet, a very strong pet...that wouldn't be up par with any existing pet...calling this pet may weaken the Death Knight on another aspect, as long as the pet remain active.
4- It will have some significant, but flawed healing.
Overall, the Death Knight will be the best class, however, it will never be the best at anything. Death Knights will be welcome in groups, due to their versatility, but their lack of strong edges will never make wanted for a specific role.
Will the average player play a Death Knight much: No.
Who will play Death Knights significantly? Players with LOT of time and willing to have a jack-of-all-trades character.
This concept have been tested, re-tested, tried and experienced. CoH players are quite used to the Kheldians by now. A Kheldian is always welcome in a group, but it is never exactly what anyone want or look for. It is extremely potent and whatever you need, it does it fine, while adding a great versatility. The death Knight are going to be exactly that.
PS: About adding new levels...I will never understand players who complains. I want UNLIMITED levels, I accept this won't be the case, but I wonder the peoples who complains...are they playing the same games I am? The best news any devs can give me is MORE levels. When I see peoples complains, I just don't get it. If you don't want new levels, why do you accept to do 50, 60, 70 or 80 levels and now, suddenly, new levels are not welcome anymore? There is something wrong with someone who accept to do X levels and then don't want the game to add more. More levels are always welcome, unless it is too hard on the casuals. 10 levels per expension isn't going to hurt any casual.
PPS: It isn't new levels that make your raiding gear obsolete, new raids would also do that.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
What I don't understand is why people get so giddy about getting new items for their cookie-cutter characters. The only thing that ever kept me from getting certain items was time. It certainly isn't fun to pay someone so you can wait for your epics, so I stopped playing.
Although, even if I did somehow manage to attain all the uber lewts, the horribly imbalanced PvP system would have forced me to quit eventually (since PvM in WoW was about as much fun for me as picking my nose).
Oh well, I guess WoW truly is the McDonalds of MMOs.
What you're saying isn't right. People would love to have some extra levels added. They've worked hard, yes, and now can they work hard again. A while ago, It was like endgame for them, all left was raiding for items and battlegrounding. I think Blizzard did great for adding levels. Great job Blizzard. Way to go!
Hmm having a think about this and how raiders maybe angry about this. It is forgotten there are two audiences that play this game; raiders and non raiders. If there is no increase in level what content is there for PvE fans who are non-raiders? This maybe being necessary(forgetting alt. advancement systems) it follows that needing a new level cap that raiding items being obsoleted is a necessary evil.
Raiders don't necessarily have to all their raiding achievements demeaned with a new expansion though. For example, I think one solution that would be cool for mmorpgs and that would satisfy raiders by gaining an achievement from raiding is if you consider a system like raiding exp bars. By people gaining advancements from raiding outside of items this could easily carry on to a new expansion and retain being meaningful and useful.
I would never think that blizzard would screw them self over. Actually, they are genius. I bet they know more then anyone here what will get people to play the game longer and what will recruit new players. They dont care how fun the game is, as long as people play it and they get paid. I do actually mind and hate that a so pointless game has so much success. But what can you do..
well, i bought BC, and promptly quit when all the gear i had from AQ / ZG / MC was made to look like trash from greens 15 mins after i set foot into Outlands. Trivializing the work that people had done up to that point by totally invalidating the gear they had earned up to that point doesn't seem an effective approach to me....
"We aren't going to ... Period. End of statement."
same rubbish as before TBC and look how that killed wow, will be the same again a small amount of the player base will moan spit and threaten to quit and then a week after release will be posting omg my new gear is so cool.
a very small amount of the player base post in the forums and those are the vocal moany farts the rest are in game enjoying it, as with all expansions there will be a small amount who leave /shrug who cares dont like it leave, like it buy it and lvl up everyone has differant views and no amount of whining by a few will change the way i feel about a game.
they should have made the cap 90 and made it take a lot longer but thats my opinion
war and aoc should be out by then so fingers crossed a lot of the moany farts can go there and have something new to moan about and stop flogging this dead horse
Comments
I find mindlessly having to regrind new levels to do what I was already doing in the first place to be boring. I made it the level cap and now I want you to give me different ways to expand my characters. No I don't want you to use the easy way out and just tack on another 10 levels. For all that money am paying you every month along with millions of other people I want you to come up with something new and creative that does not negate my past efforts.
Yes I played it. Did 1-60 and thought the game had potential if they moved away from the tired grind concepts. Played through TBC only to realize how limited and shallow the game was and how dependent was on forcing people to grind out areas of game play to progress. I was hoping Blizzard would of learned from TBC and improved. I am sorely disappointed hence the thread.
Is this not a relevant area to create a topic base around my disappoint at Blizzard MMO ? If we can't have any sort of discussions pro or for something then we might as well shut down MMORPG IMHO.
EQ2 and LOTRO right now have more depth then WoW. I probably won't continue on with EQ2 as I have no desire to hop on another 10 levels. Hopefully LOTRO won't head down this route either and will expand their content horizontally to flesh out and add more depth to their game world instead.
Because I don't suffer from OCD. I rather have something in a game that actually effects the game world or provides more information to the nature of the game world then mindlessly grinding out levels. If I wanted to mindlessly grind out levels I'd be play Archlord or Lineage 2. I much rather have deep and meaningful content then "10 levels to regrind = content" approach.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
I think the fact there's an argument like this going on at all speaks volumes about the state the game is in. I don't recall anything on this scale happening before TBC, sure there were a few threads here and there but nothing like now where every forum everywhere with people who play WoW in it are all having the same discussion, with largely the same points being raised.
The only way you could think that is if you didn't visit any forums before BC. Every thread was "GREENS>PURPLES RAIDS ARE OBSOLETE MY GUILD IS LEAVING THIS GAME IS DEAD!!!"
Nothing on this website speaks volumes about WoW. Nothing on this website says anything about WoW, if you want to find people who will really throw a fit and mean it look at WoW R&D.
i posted this in another thread, but i'll edit it a bit and post it here since it's still relevant.
Now for the record my wow account has been inactive for months, and i don't plan on playing till this next xpac, so it's not as if i LOVE WOW, this is all just logical, non idiotic observation.
1. WoW will always be WoW. I'm sorry if your expecting WoW to suddenly change the way mmorpgs are played, with entire combat revamps, redesigns to the entire item curve, and a total overhaul to crafting... your going to be disappointed. MMORPGs grow and adapt over time, but they never truely reinvent themselves without completely starting a new game, which eq2 did to eq1. No game i've ever played has ever released a xpac that changed the game to be a totally different game.
2. Level 80... This is a necessary step. Sure raid content now will be obsolete, but this is how mmorpgs work, new content will always be better then old content... always.
First let's assume they would make a xpac without a level cap increase. They plan to add at least outland size content with each xpac. So would they add a entire continent with mobs at 70?
Now your so against making old content obsolete. All quests for solo/group play will be worse then kara gear. All 5 mans will be = to current 5 mans, and worse then kara. So... why do the content? For "fun" i'm sorry but questing for 100 hours for crap gear, no upgrades, and no advancement, is just worthless, and nobody would do it expect for people who are already desperately bored.
If they were to add another 10 man, it would be a step up from kara, finishing off T4 sets, and a little T5, all of which is already in the game, for the few people who do kara but never step into gruul ssc or mag.... then this would be a advantage for them, but again it wouldn't be overly exciting since the gear is barely a upgrade.
Now for 25 mans.... You know less then 10-20% of wow players will EVER EVER EVER EVER finish BT regardless of how long it is in the system? Go look up boss trackers for hyjal which is a stepping stone to bt. about 9000-10000 people have killed the final boss. and the xpacs been out for what? 6-7 months? give it another year and we have what 30,000-40,000 people who have killed it? Out of 9 million?
If they were to add more raids to the 70 end game without making the current ones obsolete, they either have to be A. sidegrades to existing gear at the same difficulty, would this make more people raid? Would people really spend the time learning this new instance for the same gear? Most of the content would be POST BT, which means even FEWER people would see it, you'll see quite a few people starting gruul/ssc etc. but how many people will experience the 5 raids post BT?
At the same time, the people who do get access to this content, would advance SO much further compared to non raiders and new players, there would be NO comparison. If your tank ever stopped playing or was unable to play, you'd have to recruit a new tank, gear him up through all the tiers, and then start your high end progression all over again. The gap would just be too large. Same for pvp, arena tier gear will keep growing and growing, but at the same time new players will be wanting to enter the arena, and the gap would be even more noticeable then. You could argue for gear matching. But the high end players will be fighting the same people over and over and over and over and over. while the low end will be vs the masses. And at the same time, this negates the purpose of gearing up. If you get stronger gear and then fight people who have the same level gear, why even bother getting new gear, you won't be stronger in comparison. Like a level 10 fighting a 10 mob, and a 11 fighting a 11 mob, the 11 is stronger against the 10, but it's just as strong against the 11, as the 10 is against the 10.
That's why they can't NOT obsolete current instances and arena tiers. Because it's got to be accessable and worthwhile for the majority of players.
That is the way wow works.
You can argue that they could add "hero levels" and keep your current gear(untill you get into even higher tiers of it). But the problem with this is. Hero classes would be nothing but each "tree" personified as a stronger form. And the developers have said(and wisely so) that this is against their design because it would require giving up things, and players wouldn't want to do it, or be overly excited about it. You can say "but you can respec to other hero classes!" That's the same thing as talents, and in the end it just wouldn't be unique enough. And the hero levels would do what? The classes are already balanced around playstyles. Would it give my holy paladin aoe spells and hots? While losing any option of respecing to tank? Or respecing ret to farm? Or having a prot war... who is ALWAYS a prot war, and can't respec to pvp, or ALWAYS a arms war and can NEVER tank a end game instance?
Hero levels and classes just simply aren't a option as character advancement.
That's why theres 10 levels, that's why people will gear up 70-80. That's why tier 5-6 people will ride easy/cruise control till 80 raiding where they will start upgrading from a kara+ like instance. That's how it worked for naxx players and thats how it will work again. That way EVERYONE will be able to enjoy new content, that is worth doing, is beneficial, and is not a waste of time the moment it's added to the game.
3. The Death Knight.
This is NOT a ALPHA CLASS. Hero=/=alpha. The death knight will NOT tank better then the other tanks, and it will not dps better then other dpsers. It's a entirely new class, balanced to be the same power as other classes, just a different way to play. And that's what all hero classes will be. You unlock it through a quest(which sounds like you may actually be in direct contact with arthas in a non combat role, they stated arthas will be a part of the entire expansion, and not just a boss you get to and kill the end) and you can create it at level 55-70(undecided atm) That way it starts out feeling epic, and not a level 1 scrub. It won't be played more then any other class in the long run simply because it'll be a style of play thats not liked. It's why not everyone likes every class.
And to all the scrubs out there who feel a sense of entitlement "Blizzards adding a hero class? wtf there should be 20 hero classes, all of them completely new and unique with new spells and abilities without any copying! And they better all be balanced RIGHT AWAY otherwise i'll quit playing!" They stated they are working on one hero class at a time, and the first is the death knight. They want to be sure that this is balanced to be viable, while NOT replacing other classes. There WILL be more, when they are ready and able to devote the time to making/balancing it. It's a fully working class, with it's own talents, it's own spells, and own flavor. It takes a lot of time, and if they can they will add more hero classes with the xpac. But i'd rather have 1 fully working, well designed balanced class added a ways away from each other, instead of 10 classes which all are just copies of old ones, and either suck or are overpowered.
You people make me sick, they didn't even HAVE to make a new class. Oh look we are making a new class, and it's THE CLASS THAT HAS BEEN ASKED FOR SINCE BETA. "Ya but we want more!! give us 10 classes this sucks! why are deathknights being added! more more more!" Do you know how dumb you sound?
4. What exactly will we be missing from old content?
Zul'aman, BT, TK, Hyjal, SSC, Mag, Gruul, and the other raid being added prior to the xpac(maybe kara... but i could see it still being used, the gear from it still will be better then 70-73+ gear, while some exp is gained from running). So that's a bunch of raids that the minority of players will complete, get to farm status and do, before the xpac comes out. Is it such a big deal that you won't see some raid dungeons just because YOU sucked hard enough or started playing late enough that you were unable to get to them? Should they just not advance the game so the person who joins 5 years from now gets to play in kara?
Even if these were still available and the "side grade" raids were added, theres not enough time in the week to run every single raid unless you were beyond even the hardcore raiders. and they will simply do the ones that give the best gear.
All of outlands will still be there to be enjoyed by the players. 60-70 can and still will be done in outland. Thats ALOT of content. then at 70-80 you go to northrend and you experience MORE content. and then you get to see MORE raids which are JUST as unique, and JUST as fun as the current ones. and people will still do the 70 dungeons as they are leveling, just like how you see people do blood furnace and ramparts prior to 70, or even SM WC, VC, GR, RFK, and RFD, while they are leveling knowing there is better gear.
And really, one of the major complaints is people don't want to raid to get gear. Why do the same people get upset that the raids they hated aren't being required anymore? Talk about hypocrites.
5. But all the time i WORKED for the gear is wasted.
Guess what, if you have to "work" and "suffer" to get your gear and advance so you can work more. Then you need to either commit suicide or get a life. Because WoW is meant to be fun. If your not enjoying it, then guess what, your wasting your time regardless of it there being better gear later.
And guess what, if you like raiding, you like getting gear, and you like doing that stuff... Then your not wasting your time, because your having fun! And guess what? A video game isn't real, NOTHING you do in game matters in real life, bosses don't care if you have a level 70 orc rogue in full tier 6. You won't walk into a bar and people go "omg you see that! It's brutekillerzorz! He downed Illidan and got his epic shield! WoW i want him inside me!" EVENTUALLY you will quit wow, and eventually wow will get shut down. All your achievements won't matter then. Have fun and enjoy the game, and guess what? It doesn't matter if you replace all your gear, and you have to raid new stuff. Just have fun with it.
You can't play a mmorpg and expect to be able to "max" out your gear, and never upgrade it. You may be fine with running gruul for 13 years straight, but not everyone is.
Huh i'm happy about the new level cap lol.
Stop moaning
This was to be known a LONG time ago. They announced that they would release an expansion every year~ almost a year ago. The point of WoW is to have fun. It's a shame that 95% of your time is spent leveling, standing around cities, partying with kids (since the community is sub-par), raiding for new gear (which will be void within months), and competing in bland PvP environments. The other 5% is spent when you aren't playing the game and you are itching to get on so you can fly on your epic flying mount.
So. You haven't played since they raised the level cap to 70.
How has the population done since then?
Let's see. You would rather they just added more content for the level 70's currently. For you, that means nothing. Since you are 60, on a retired char.
Add on, most players need something active to do AFTER they have grinded to the max level. It has been how long since the Burning Crusades? How many times can you go through the current dungeons til you get bored? As another player said...40?
Ok. New material without xp/level gains means what? Just farming for new uber equipment. What about crafters?
Lastly. See Bladin's post. He covers what most players think about level cap increases including content.
And Sorry. But if you are not a current player(not even a old MAX level player) you don't have any business posting what YOU think about the new caps.
But thanks for bringing the topic up.
Haven't you heard? Grinding rep and farming for motes......
10 more levels and more raids isn't change. It's the exact same thing a lot of people have been doing for the past couple of years.
Change would be "new" content. New content means you can do something you couldn't do before. I've been able to raid for quite some time now. How about something other then raiding?
I'm not against raising level caps, but if everytime the cap is raised I am only able to do the same thing I was doing at the previous level cap then things get rather boring.
I don't want to pay to grind more rep. I don't want to pay to grind more dungeons for more gear.
I mean, the last BG they added was just a combination of WSG, and AB. That wasn't new, it was just taking preexisting gameplay and combining it. How about zones in the actuall game world that have meaningful objectives, and a reason to kill other players other then thier name is red. How about some reward for killing someone in my level range outside of a BG? Kiling other players isn't even important. There is absolutely no reason to do it on a pvp server, other then to annoy them. You can't earn enough rep to advance in any way unless you do BG's. And you can't advance in level doing BG's.
How about some new skill trees for the classes? how about a completely seperate skill tree to further diversify my character, and make them dif. from every other mage that either pvp's or raids? How about a new sill tree that isn't set up around raid, pvp, and worthless (you know that 3rd tree that most classes don't use)?
How about guild housing, player housing, player controlled cities? How about some more diverse BG's? How about making the BG's have an impact on the world (the faction that is winning any particular BG consistantly gets something for the effort)?
There is a lot Blizz could do that would "change" the game. Currently the next expansion doesn't look like it's changing anything more then TBC changed the game.
Will you be able to fly in the new zone? Somehow, I dought it. So much for change.
this is exactly why i will stick with eq2 as a main fantasy mmo.
playing eq2 and two worlds
Blizzard has said from the very beginning, they had a planned level cap of 100. It shouldn't surprise anyone. The easiest way to add content is to add levels. Then you just slap some quests in, give people an area to fight mobs and you are pretty much good. Oh wait, isn't that what BC was? Blizzard has never really been an innovative company. To expect anything else is putting too much stock in Blizzard being a cutting edge development stupid and that just isn't who they are.
Yes who's gonna play a new expansion and stay at the same level ?
if i do decide to get expansion, which i prolly will. im one of the lucky ones, i have good blues from non heroic instances, as i hate faction grinding. but now that i know cap will go up, ill just sit happy at lv 70 with decent gear knowing that greens will be better than alot of purples.
Also, i wonder if u will be able to use flying mount in new place...or, will they add sea mounts that u will only be able to use in the ocean on new contonent
it might screw over ppl who raid (like me) but at least it keeps the game fresh instead of dulling it out like most other MMO's on the market, btw death knight class is just another class like paladin warlock or mage, its just another class for people to grind at; also, its not over powered (hero class is just a title, it means nothing at all) it'll have its weakness and its strength, so people saying that Death Knight is over powered pls read what blizzard said during blizzcon before makeing statements
You know, as much as this thread contains alot of views, opinions, and alot of crap, one thing remains certain.
Reading this thread makes me even happier that I am not giving my money to Blizzard.
If thats possible, that is
Carrot on a stick anyone?
*cry* i know...i know....i wish i could stop, but i just cant...also, i wil be buying Star Craft 2 lol...Blizzard musta been good at monopoly. /wrist
The Death Knight class will work extremely well, but no it will not appeal to every player.
Blizzard copy concepts from every other company. Even without knowing what the Death Knight is, I will give you a fair idea of what a Death Knight will be able to do:
1- It will be the second best tanking class, yet it will have a huge weakness to something.
2- It will deliver tremendous amount of damage, rivaling with the best DPS, yet be slightly behind.
3- It will have a pet, a very strong pet...that wouldn't be up par with any existing pet...calling this pet may weaken the Death Knight on another aspect, as long as the pet remain active.
4- It will have some significant, but flawed healing.
Overall, the Death Knight will be the best class, however, it will never be the best at anything. Death Knights will be welcome in groups, due to their versatility, but their lack of strong edges will never make wanted for a specific role.
Will the average player play a Death Knight much: No.
Who will play Death Knights significantly? Players with LOT of time and willing to have a jack-of-all-trades character.
This concept have been tested, re-tested, tried and experienced. CoH players are quite used to the Kheldians by now. A Kheldian is always welcome in a group, but it is never exactly what anyone want or look for. It is extremely potent and whatever you need, it does it fine, while adding a great versatility. The death Knight are going to be exactly that.
PS: About adding new levels...I will never understand players who complains. I want UNLIMITED levels, I accept this won't be the case, but I wonder the peoples who complains...are they playing the same games I am? The best news any devs can give me is MORE levels. When I see peoples complains, I just don't get it. If you don't want new levels, why do you accept to do 50, 60, 70 or 80 levels and now, suddenly, new levels are not welcome anymore? There is something wrong with someone who accept to do X levels and then don't want the game to add more. More levels are always welcome, unless it is too hard on the casuals. 10 levels per expension isn't going to hurt any casual.
PPS: It isn't new levels that make your raiding gear obsolete, new raids would also do that.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
imho a death knight is a mix of warrior and lock.
Their melee DPS i think will be similar to the paladin, but they'll also be able to use their runes to curse targets and do DoT
What I don't understand is why people get so giddy about getting new items for their cookie-cutter characters.
The only thing that ever kept me from getting certain items was time. It certainly isn't fun to pay someone so you can wait for your epics, so I stopped playing. 
Although, even if I did somehow manage to attain all the uber lewts, the horribly imbalanced PvP system would have forced me to quit eventually (since PvM in WoW was about as much fun for me as picking my nose).
Oh well, I guess WoW truly is the McDonalds of MMOs.
why play the game or even talk about it if you hate it so much.
What you're saying isn't right. People would love to have some extra levels added. They've worked hard, yes, and now can they work hard again. A while ago, It was like endgame for them, all left was raiding for items and battlegrounding. I think Blizzard did great for adding levels. Great job Blizzard. Way to go!
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Currently playing Shot Online: Marlonn - lvl 52 Zygmunt.
"Argueing online is like running in the special Olympics... even if you win your still a retard."
Hmm having a think about this and how raiders maybe angry about this. It is forgotten there are two audiences that play this game; raiders and non raiders. If there is no increase in level what content is there for PvE fans who are non-raiders? This maybe being necessary(forgetting alt. advancement systems) it follows that needing a new level cap that raiding items being obsoleted is a necessary evil.
Raiders don't necessarily have to all their raiding achievements demeaned with a new expansion though. For example, I think one solution that would be cool for mmorpgs and that would satisfy raiders by gaining an achievement from raiding is if you consider a system like raiding exp bars. By people gaining advancements from raiding outside of items this could easily carry on to a new expansion and retain being meaningful and useful.
I would never think that blizzard would screw them self over. Actually, they are genius. I bet they know more then anyone here what will get people to play the game longer and what will recruit new players. They dont care how fun the game is, as long as people play it and they get paid. I do actually mind and hate that a so pointless game has so much success. But what can you do..
My cool sig: Turrets suck.
well, i bought BC, and promptly quit when all the gear i had from AQ / ZG / MC was made to look like trash from greens 15 mins after i set foot into Outlands. Trivializing the work that people had done up to that point by totally invalidating the gear they had earned up to that point doesn't seem an effective approach to me....
"We aren't going to ... Period. End of statement."
ya. ok. whatever.
but what do i know, i'm only a vanbois i'm told.
same rubbish as before TBC and look how that killed wow, will be the same again a small amount of the player base will moan spit and threaten to quit and then a week after release will be posting omg my new gear is so cool.
a very small amount of the player base post in the forums and those are the vocal moany farts the rest are in game enjoying it, as with all expansions there will be a small amount who leave /shrug who cares dont like it leave, like it buy it and lvl up everyone has differant views and no amount of whining by a few will change the way i feel about a game.
they should have made the cap 90 and made it take a lot longer but thats my opinion
war and aoc should be out by then so fingers crossed a lot of the moany farts can go there and have something new to moan about and stop flogging this dead horse