Wrath of LIch king is blizzards attempt to add depth to a very shallow game. Cracks me up, oh the death knight class hmmm that is strangly similar to the shadowknight from everquest2. Lets just look at some of the things I have noticed having played both games. And just to clear any confusion I still play both and I think WoW isn't a "Bad" game it just lacks any depth. Eq2 was built around pve and it is the best in class for that, raids etc you name it.
WoW was built with pvp in mind and it does a much better job of making pvp accessible to the masses. (eq2 pvp can be brutal) Wow is stagnant, yea they may add a high end dungeon here and there but it was what 2+ years before TBC came out. Eq2 has had 3 expansions with a 4th one coming in november and 3 adventure packs. This year they added a whole new city and race and 1-20 starting zone for free, as well as a new high end raid zone and a high in group dungeon all for free. They have moved from a $5 adventure pack model to free content injections about every other month. Some people complain that eq2 is too group based, yea that was true in 2004-2005 but they have made the game MUCH more solo friendly and just last week they changed even more of the mobs in the outside zones to solo mobs instead of "elite". So someone starting the game will have no problems soloing up to 60 or 70 if they choose. Most people once they pley will find that groups aren't that bad like they are in wow, people actually work together and it is not every man for himself like most wow groups tend to be. (yes there are some exceptions) Just a few of the things you can do in eq2 that you can't in wow: Fight from your mounts, player housing, first of the year 2008 they are adding guild islands so your guild can have it's own city/island with hundreds of rooms for players to setup their house. (For those who don't know you use your house as an Action house people can come to your house and buy your stuff you have for sale) You can jump from griffons, so if you are flying some place and you want to jump off halfway over the water or when the griffon gets low enough to the ground so you don't die (or if you are one of the two races that can glide). Maps are vertical as well, some places you have to climb walls to get to different areas. All healers Can rez during battle, one thing I hate in wow if I die during fight I think only a few healers (druids i think) can rez before the fight is over. All healers can also summon a revive feather, essence or whatever to your bag so if all your healers die someone else in the group can revive them after combat is over. I see one reason people may get bored with wow is the lack of classes, the 8 or so wow classes can get old quick, with eq2 you have 24 to choose from and you have 100 "talent" points you can gain to further customize your character. The lvl 65-70 dungeons that drop the Class specific armor sets will ONLY drop items that someone in your group can wear and if someone in your group already has that item in their bags or bank or on them it will not drop that particular one. So say you go into Crypt of Valdoon which drops forearm set piece, everyone except the warlock has already got their forearm, then there is a 100% chance to drop the warlock forearm. Same thing with the Echoes of Faydwer raid zones, the higher end set items (think purple) drop according to what the people in your raid have already received. This is such a nice feature when you are trying to gear up your raid force or whatever. No corpse runs in eq2, when you die you either get rezzed by someone in your group or you revive back at the safe area for the dungeon or zone you are in, rebuff and get right back to it (60 sec revive sickness). The mod community for eq2 is amazing, two personal favorites are eq2maps and ProfitReborn UI Eq2maps adds POI (points of interest) dots to your map for stuff like where named mobs can be found or where quest updates are as well as user created maps for dungeons that don't come with default maps. Profit UI in addition to providing a TON of info about your spell crit rate melee crit rate etc and how much power/health you regen during or after fights it adds a hyperlink to the quest journal that you can click and it will pull up the current quest on eq2.wikia.com if you are not sure what to do next for that quest. Guilds actually mean something in eq2, when you create a guild it is level 1, there several different things you can do to give your guild XP that I will not go into detail. Once your guild reaches level 10-20-30-40 and 60 you can gain access to bigger houses faster mounts, a mailbox for inside your house and a ton of other things. So most eq2 guilds are alot better at working together and helping everyone out. (i know there are some wow guilds like this) This also brings up the point that 90% of the eq2 players (not counting pvp) are mature players, you won't see ROFLCOPTER over and over in chat. The high end raid dungeons don't require everyone to be "keyed" alot do not require any pre-requisite but the ones that do only ONE person has to have completed the "key" or access quest to get everyone else into the zone. Graphics are mind blowing in eq2 especially in the new continent, character models and armor are awesome. Wow character models are the worst thing I have EVER seen, I mean the fingers on my dwarf look like loaf's of bread stuck on his arm, same thing with the human the fingers are the size that their arm SHOULD be. Don't get me wrong the graphics of the world etc look ok for that style and everyone likes a different style but I just think they could do alot better. Maybe the 10-16 yr old population it was targeted at prefers that look. You can also do collection quests, basically at random places in any of the zones there are these shiny things you can see from a long way off that have a ? above them and if you harvest it you get some random item and if you right click it you can start a new collection quest to get the rest of the items of that set. When you complete a collection you go talk to the collection person in your home city and he will give you your reward. Collection quests give alot of adventure XP and will give you more xp towards your 100 AA "talent points". Some of the rewards are pretty awesome. They can range from Stuff to put in your house, to a rare stone that you can sell for 100g or so or my favorite are the ones that give you a nice earring or neck item etc. One of the better mage earrings for a lvl 70 is a reward from a collection quest. If you have say a level 10 character but all your friends have 70s they can still group with you and mentor down to your level and you receive bonus Xp from them and they still get a small amount of xp too. Leveling in eq2 in my experience is much less of a grind than in wow, you start out with 100% rest xp or "vitality" and unless you ding 3-4 times in one night you usually will not run out of double xp. Leveling 1-20 in 1 nite is easy if you run around in a group. Or 1-20 in 2 nights if solo. As far as getting groups or people to help with harder stuff I rarely have problems getting groups at any level range to do stuff. In wow on the otherhand getting a group can take forever if you aren't doing the top end 70 stuff that everyone wants to do. Crafting in eq2 is soo much more fun than wow, wow yea all you have to do is get the mats and click create and hope you have the bag space. Eq2 you have to press buttons to craft but you don't have to get nearly as much materials to level up. You gain levels from 1-70 just like adventuring instead of point by point basis. (the exception is transmuting aka enchanting or tinkering aka engineering)
Crafting professions are: Alchemist(potions and figher spells), Sage(makes mage/healer spells), jeweler(can make scout spells), Armorer, weaponsmith, tailorer, carpenter (armor repair kits and furniture), woodworker(makes bows, arrows, wands etc), provisioner(makes food/drink) No login que EVER, only 2 or 3 times in 3yrs can i remember server lag, the regular weekly updates are tuesday morning and last for typically 1-1.5hrs downtime. (I will give wow credit they have seemed to fix the login que issue and server lag has gotten alot better in the old zones, the outland still has issues sometimes.) Those are just a few of the things I can think of off the top of my head. From my viewpoint of playing eq2 from day one and wow only since last summer, wow has been trying to keep up with the progress eq2 has made but have fallen far behind and it is hurting them. Almost every day in eq2 I meet someone new that used to play wow but then went to VG>LOTRO then came to eq2. I will be the first to admit eq2 was very clunky and had some issues in the beginning compaired to wow but you CANNOT compair eq2 back then to the current eq2 as it is completely different. The developers actually listen to the players and continually make changes to improve the game experience.
I think Wrath of the Lich King will be fun for 2-3months like TBC was for alot of people then they will be bored again. It is a step in the right direction for blizzard but for me anyways it can't compete with the polished ever improving eq2.
Holy crap that was a long post. People have accused me for writing essays in the past, but this one is amazing. Whatever your point was (I haven't read it yet - I'm going to need some coffee first), you deserve brownie points just for taking the time to write it.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Probably because people are tired of it. Then there are the people that just got done leveling all their characters to 70, worked for gear, now it means nothing again.
Welcome to world of warcraft. Always seeking to make people who are either mediocre to terrible feel like they are good at the game. It is their whole strategy along with letting Chinese people play for next to nothing with free xpacs.
They earn much less in china which is why they appear to pay less, the average person in china earns $632/month ( Link ) the average American earns $3666/month ( Link ).
lets do some math based an average incomes above
An American pay $15 a month thats 0.4% of his monthly income.
A china player pays about 4 cent/hour, lets say he plays 80 hours a month, thats about $3.20 or 0.5% of his monthly income
So you see we pay about the same, but in most cases pay more in china... we got it good. So no more bull crap about them paying less. its not true.
Yeah they get the expansion free 8 months after we get for $40 (thats 1 good Friday night out). Why not move to china if it upsets you so much.. send me a post card form your Nike sweat shop your working in for 80 hours a week
Two things...
#1) Those numbers are skewed horribly. The extremes of each nation create an unrealistic "average income".
#2) If that's really the case, why didn't they get TBC free?
Face it dude, it's a marketing ploy to get more subs in Asia.
*edit*: Also, that last sentence of yours is extremely racist and prejudice. I suggest you do some research on China before you say that everyone works in a sweatshop.
--- He said to me, "On your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that going for me, which is nice.
While Mr. Longpost there brings up some fine points about some of the niceties of EQII, it reads more like a sales pitch than an actual argument to me. Shill much?
Is there any possibility of more hero classes being announced for the upcoming expansion? Or will they all come in future patches/expansions?
From Nethaera
We are thinking at current that any future hero class additions will be made in expansions further along the line so that we can control just how many classes the game has and continue to work on attaining balance as we add them.
forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html also from Nethaera The new hero class will take a character slot. We have no plans to add more character slots. So, much like with the addition of Draenei and Blood Elves, my suggestion would be strategic deletion if you want to add the new Death Knight to your repertoire.
You do realize that adding classes to games through expansions is not only common to MMORPGs, but RPGs as a whole, going all the way back to Diablo and beyond? If that's your reason for hating WoW, you're easily provoked. You're not a Sith are you?
You hate Blizzard because you've used up all your slots on one server, and there is not a single character you can part with? How do you even do that, given the race-class restrictions in the game?
Your hatred is misguided. My recommendation is yoga.
well, my problem isn't so much with them adding new classes via an expansion, my problem with it is that hero classes were originally supposed to be in the original game, so they start adding them in 3 years later or whenever this upcoming expansion comes out AND only 1 class?! for something that was supposed to be in the game 2 1/2 years ago, they should've had plenty of time to work on hero classes and released several with this expansion in my opinion.
also, i've been playing this game for over 2 years now, and i enjoy playing ever class--and i know i'm not the only one, and it's very easy to lvl characters in this game, on one account on the same server i've got:
lvl 70 paladin
lvl 70 warrior
lvl 70 warlock
lvl 68 hunter
lvl 64 mage
lvl 62 priest
lvl 51 shaman
my personal bank alt
and my guilds bank alt--understood that this character possibly won't be needed after they bring out guild banks, which i believe is another thing that was promised at release. so yeah it's not a problem for me this expansion, i've got room for a death knight--but if people stick with this game, after a couple expansions what are they going to do with another hero class or 5 more hero classes? think ahead some, it's not hard to reach the limit of characters per server, and their solution of "strategic deletion" honestly pisses me off--and from what i heard a lot of people at Blizzcon weren't happy with them when they stated that they would not add more character slots.
Probably because people are tired of it. Then there are the people that just got done leveling all their characters to 70, worked for gear, now it means nothing again.
Welcome to world of warcraft. Always seeking to make people who are either mediocre to terrible feel like they are good at the game. It is their whole strategy along with letting Chinese people play for next to nothing with free xpacs.
They earn much less in china which is why they appear to pay less, the average person in china earns $632/month ( Link ) the average American earns $3666/month ( Link ).
lets do some math based an average incomes above
An American pay $15 a month thats 0.4% of his monthly income.
A china player pays about 4 cent/hour, lets say he plays 80 hours a month, thats about $3.20 or 0.5% of his monthly income
So you see we pay about the same, but in most cases pay more in china... we got it good. So no more bull crap about them paying less. its not true.
Yeah they get the expansion free 8 months after we get for $40 (thats 1 good Friday night out). Why not move to china if it upsets you so much.. send me a post card form your Nike sweat shop your working in for 80 hours a week
Two things...
#1) Those numbers are skewed horribly. The extremes of each nation create an unrealistic "average income".
#2) If that's really the case, why didn't they get TBC free?
Face it dude, it's a marketing ploy to get more subs in Asia.
*edit*: Also, that last sentence of yours is extremely racist and prejudice. I suggest you do some research on China before you say that everyone works in a sweatshop.
1) Did you actually read the Wikipedia entry? It has a breakdown of the Industry / Agriculture and services proportions of the relative workforces. With even the most basic knowledge of economics you should be able to see why China is a poorer country overall. There are over 300 million chinese farm workers. Thats agriculture, not game currency btw.
How are the numbers skewed horribly? They're encyclopedic. You're simply in denial. No question, it's really quite amazing how you can simply blank facts out because they don't coincide with your world view. You're in denial of Cupertino's excellent argument that practically blows all conspiracy theories out of the water. Still in denial?
What statistical analysis can you do to determine this? Are you saying that poverty isn't widespread in china? Why are so many of our electronic products manufactured in China? It's because the labor is so cheap over there, everyone is earning a pittance.
It's common sense. There are extremes in both countries, that's the purpose of using averages. There's no more reliable statistical method of clearly showing which countries are wealthier than others.
THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY THE PRICES FOR GAMES THAT WE DO. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE.
2) China had to wait a LOT longer to get this expansion pack than the rest of the world. This is a nice gesture by Blizzard, understandable even if you have no grasp of economics whatsoever.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
-but if people stick with this game, after a couple expansions what are they going to do with another hero class or 5 more hero classes? think ahead some, it's not hard to reach the limit of characters per server, and their solution of "strategic deletion" honestly pisses me off--and from what i heard a lot of people at Blizzcon weren't happy with them when they stated that they would not add more character slots.
Hmm... you do realize there are two easy work-arounds to your dilemma ....the first involves opening a second account, but if you prefer to not spend the money...your second option is to create characters on a different server.....
Its a big world out there in WOW land...never hurts to explore a bit. (I had five level 60's across 3 different servers)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think a major breaktrougth on the mmo universe is required, hell i play lotro because i like it and im a fan, but take that out and i'll be bored as hell because we have the same mmorpg style since..... i can't remember.
So well perhaps is just me being burnt out an all... but hell i need something fresh and new. we'll just have to w8 for a brilliant idea from someone with tons of money and well connected.
P.d.: Lotro rules! at least is a lil bit different somehow. Must be the great history behind it.
Ppl are just bored of the same old thing.... I think a major breaktrougth on the mmo universe is required, hell i play lotro because i like it and im a fan, but take that out and i'll be bored as hell because we have the same mmorpg style since..... i can't remember. So well perhaps is just me being burnt out an all... but hell i need something fresh and new. we'll just have to w8 for a brilliant idea from someone with tons of money and well connected. P.d.: Lotro rules! at least is a lil bit different somehow. Must be the great history behind it.
Extept that it is LOTR story what rules? Character moving like you are playing manic miner from 1982? Or that interface is copy of wow? How about endless grinding there? How about stupid quests? Or how about "wow copy with better graphic" sound? No PvP at all...you cant choose sides cause only one side wins in that game, and we all know end of it...while u WoW you dont know when or how does it end
Truth about WoW is that...it is still most playable and best mmorpg game you can find (for majority of people). It will stay like that untill someone release XYZ...then that game will be most popular untill someone in year release QWERTZ...and so on...
Most ppl who left WoW left because they didnt fit in because after all it IS massive multiplayer! game...so if you dont have online friends to play with you are left alone or whats worst you are left to play with PUGs and that sux big time...
If i wouldnt have online friends in WoW i wouldnt play it for sure...i dont have nothing to do there alone....
I would be really happy that someone make World of Fallout, i would pay 30$ a month to play it and i would be happy...
Eh ye one more thing...i see that much ppl who are posting here are not playing WoW for really long time so they are posting nonsense...game has changed from TBC, it evolved one level for sure (if not two levels)...and its damn good game from every aspect...PvE or PvP
--------------------> Would you like some cheese with that whine?
I hope the title of this thread is sarcasm. Increasing the level cap without adding new early-game material. And adding more classes, but to the -end- of the game, not the beginning. This destroys replayability - something that WoW is already lacking in.
So, when you're sitting there, after having played for 3 years thinking, "I'm sick of playing my shaman, sick of my warrior, sick of my warlock, and my rogue. Maybe I'll play a new class when the expansion comes out." Nope. Same old classes you've had for the past 3 or more years. But now, they've moved the finish line back some more.
You can make worthwhile expansions without increasing the level cap and making it more difficult on the people that have been playing for a long time. Give them more content, not more of the same quest/rep gain/pvp rewards.
Extept that it is LOTR story what rules? Character moving like you are playing manic miner from 1982? Or that interface is copy of wow? How about endless grinding there? How about stupid quests? Or how about "wow copy with better graphic" sound? No PvP at all...you cant choose sides cause only one side wins in that game, and we all know end of it...while u WoW you dont know when or how does it end
Truth about WoW is that...it is still most playable and best mmorpg game you can find (for majority of people). It will stay like that untill someone release XYZ...then that game will be most popular untill someone in year release QWERTZ...and so on... Most ppl who left WoW left because they didnt fit in because after all it IS massive multiplayer! game...so if you dont have online friends to play with you are left alone or whats worst you are left to play with PUGs and that sux big time... If i wouldnt have online friends in WoW i wouldnt play it for sure...i dont have nothing to do there alone.... I would be really happy that someone make World of Fallout, i would pay 30$ a month to play it and i would be happy...
Dude get a grip WTH with all the hostility IT'S MY FREAKING OPPINION!!!!....i dont' care if u like to play russian roulette. It's impossible to write anything lately...everything is full of trolling and fanbois. *Sigh*. I did state the "FOR ME" meaning my single opinon u freaking troll.
And anyhow... wow was a great game... but currently it sucks, in graphics, content, community, and hehehe... lately PvP as well so don't get me that overated freaking wow is the best speech, cuz i've been there kid.
And you missed the whole freaking point of the post... ppl bored of year after year playing the same "mmorpg molding" whatever the name is. they are all the same with subtle differeces. I think that 10 or more years of the same game genere w/o any improvement to the gameplay per se (read this as the same go out, kill, lvl up, gear up, etc) is enough for quite some ppl.
P.D.: I DONT CARE ABOUT WHO LIKE WICH GAME, im talking about the whole genre, and yes i do like lotro better than anyother but AGAIN it is my oppinion!.
<blockquote><i>Originally posted by terrant</i> <br><b><p>Always nice to see an SOE employee posting.</p> <p>While Mr. Longpost there brings up some fine points about some of the niceties of EQII, it reads more like a sales pitch than an actual argument to me. Shill much?</p></b></blockquote> <br>
lol I was waiting for someone to think that I was SOE employee, I am not. Although I wish they would maybe give me 1 month credit on my subscription for the shameless plug lol.
I realize I was a bit long winded but alot of people simply do not realize how much eq2 has changed. Yea I realize some of the changes made it a bit easier more user friendly like wow is and that is by no means a bad thing. Like I said earlier I play eq2 and wow and I've played vanguard, DarkandLight as well as guild wars. Never really did much in the other games though.
List of toons in each game:
WoW 61 dwarf rogue, 31 undead priest and various other 20ish toons.
Eq2 70 wood elf wizard 83AA points, 70 Human Paladin 86 AA points, 40 Fae Fury, 36 Dark Elf Necromancer, 26 Arasai Dirge, 22 Gnome Brigand, 15 dwarf Fury on pvp (level locked twinked sorta)
My goal was to get a 70 in wow as well and do some raiding, main reason I play wow too is I have some RL friends from an old job that play so I hang out with them from time to time, the other was I was tired of the wow vs eq2 fud that people were saying about each game without having experienced the other side.
IMO wow was such a hit because it had a very easy learning curve at release, it had VERY minimal hardware requirements so just about anyone with the bottom of the line Dell PC could play it, and it had the fanbase of the 15million or so Battlenet users that played Starcraft, Warcraft 3, Diablo etc to pull from. Also the Blizzard marketing machine is sorta like the Intel marketing machine vs AMD, they really did a great job marketing it and making sure everyone heard about it. Eq2 has suffered from lackluster marketing, I think they did a little better marketing Echoes of Faydwer and I hope they really step up with Rise of Kunark because it is going to be awesome. Eq2 population boomed when EoF released and has been climbing ever since. (no I have no hard numbers to prove this only going from what I see in game and on the newbie forums with new people asking questions daily.
Current Guestimate (only a guess) puts population at around 275k just after EoF release, this is up from a minimum last time Mmochart took a count of around 175k . There are only around 29 servers so it is not a ghostown like some would think having only 275k+ players. Wow's millions of players are spread over hundreds of servers so per server population is similar between eq2 and wow.
One eq2 feature wow is getting soon is "guild banks", I could do another LONG post about the things wow has taken from eq2, same as the stuff eq2 has adapted from wow.
Bottom line, played the game you have the most fun in, they are only games and are meant for entertainment. Don't force yourself to play to grind Honor just because or because you thing it is your only option. Try something new. And if you do play eq2 and on my server I can hook you up with whatever you need. Same for wow, Free lockpicking on Gorefiend!
Yea even though they made it a bit more like wow still has all the depth that eq2 is known for just more user friendly. A good idea is a good idea if it comes from wow or not.
First off, although the Hero Classes that were promised at release were announced, the implimentation is a question. Do you force people to grind to 80 now before they can even start? Does it change your existing character or does it "unlock" the Hero Class that you then create and play from level 1? Things you, we dont know doesnt mean wow sux and that it will be bad expansion. No new basic classes or new races (so far). So then replay value is practically nil. TBC forced players to start over at level 1 when they made their blood elf or draenei, with new starter content. Loot progression is a big question mark. TBC was terribly imbalanced for loots. Simple green drops in Hellfire were comparable to Teir 1 raid gear. This isnt true! I changed my T2 and T3 pcs with lvl 69-70 blue quality items. And some of my items (like AQ shoulders, lifegiving gem and few other things) are still uber compared to new stuff i found. So that story how new green items can just replace your ol T3 is crap. Once someone hit 58, they could gear up with blues/greens in Hellfire alone and by 60 would be pretty much equal gear-wiseto a 60 with full pvp epics or tier 1/2. Wrong, like rest you wroted down there. As i said, i changed my epix axe with lvl 68 blue drop in outlands, before that i didnt find any usefull thing. Same is with all my armor and your constatation is just wrong. Many worry that all the work they are doing in the Black Temple will now be made wasted by the first green drop in Northrend However, it is early announcement so as more info comes out I'm sure we will get a better idea as to what this expansion will and will not deliver.
First off Qark, I never said the expansion would be "bad" or "sux". I merely stated that beyond the excitement of expansion news, there is some apprehension. Do not read more into what I said than what I actually said.
Second, I said that Hellfire greens were comparable to Tier 1 gear. You are then talking about Tier 3 and beyond, which isn't what I was comparing at all. I was pointing out that those people that worked through MC and BWL suddenly found that all that time was essentially wasted, since BoE greens were near-equal quality just no set bonuses. I had a friend whose lock was tier 3/4 and she didn't replace her epics til mid to high 60's. Again, i was speaking of Tier 1/2 gear vs Hellfire greens.
Third, declaring my statement about Hellfire greens vs pvp epics "wrong" was uh well incorrect on your part. You were, again, talking about tier 3+ while I was talking about 60 pvp epic and tier 1/2 gear. Some of the Thrallmar/HH weapons are equal if not better than pvp epic weapons, depending on your class and talent build.
Finally, if you wish to quote me that's fine. Just make sure you actually read what I typed before you make replies that clearly show that you didn't. Hopefully in the next several weeks more details will make expectations of the expansion clearer to us all.
I do not know. I mean, we had expansions in all games. Did we had whiners complain that, hey! the new Diablo 2 expansion add a new Act!!! now all my weapons are bad cause in the new act there is better?" THe ONLY bad thing is that all those awesome dungeons, like Molten core, Naxxaren, onyxia and now Black temple and so on, get made obsolete. Blizzard has to do something for those, that content should not go to waste!
Hey noone complained about that because you could find and use new items right away! You didnt need to get to level 60 just to get your hands on some runes or a new set or a new unique. Plus most of the existing sets gained new attributes.
I think that if they are pricing there expansions a little high 20 bucks would be reasonable considering our montly contributions probably funded the whole project.
If the expansion has new quests / items and lands for ALL levels it would be a better deal to me.
First off, although the Hero Classes that were promised at release were announced, the implimentation is a question. Do you force people to grind to 80 now before they can even start? Does it change your existing character or does it "unlock" the Hero Class that you then create and play from level 1? Things you, we dont know doesnt mean wow sux and that it will be bad expansion. No new basic classes or new races (so far). So then replay value is practically nil. TBC forced players to start over at level 1 when they made their blood elf or draenei, with new starter content. Loot progression is a big question mark. TBC was terribly imbalanced for loots. Simple green drops in Hellfire were comparable to Teir 1 raid gear. This isnt true! I changed my T2 and T3 pcs with lvl 69-70 blue quality items. And some of my items (like AQ shoulders, lifegiving gem and few other things) are still uber compared to new stuff i found. So that story how new green items can just replace your ol T3 is crap. Once someone hit 58, they could gear up with blues/greens in Hellfire alone and by 60 would be pretty much equal gear-wiseto a 60 with full pvp epics or tier 1/2. Wrong, like rest you wroted down there. As i said, i changed my epix axe with lvl 68 blue drop in outlands, before that i didnt find any usefull thing. Same is with all my armor and your constatation is just wrong. Many worry that all the work they are doing in the Black Temple will now be made wasted by the first green drop in Northrend However, it is early announcement so as more info comes out I'm sure we will get a better idea as to what this expansion will and will not deliver.
First off Qark, I never said the expansion would be "bad" or "sux". I merely stated that beyond the excitement of expansion news, there is some apprehension. Do not read more into what I said than what I actually said.
Second, I said that Hellfire greens were comparable to Tier 1 gear. You are then talking about Tier 3 and beyond, which isn't what I was comparing at all. I was pointing out that those people that worked through MC and BWL suddenly found that all that time was essentially wasted, since BoE greens were near-equal quality just no set bonuses. I had a friend whose lock was tier 3/4 and she didn't replace her epics til mid to high 60's. Again, i was speaking of Tier 1/2 gear vs Hellfire greens.
Third, declaring my statement about Hellfire greens vs pvp epics "wrong" was uh well incorrect on your part. You were, again, talking about tier 3+ while I was talking about 60 pvp epic and tier 1/2 gear. Some of the Thrallmar/HH weapons are equal if not better than pvp epic weapons, depending on your class and talent build.
Finally, if you wish to quote me that's fine. Just make sure you actually read what I typed before you make replies that clearly show that you didn't. Hopefully in the next several weeks more details will make expectations of the expansion clearer to us all.
O.K. i missunderstood that part with T1 gear, and then its partly true. Talking from warrior aspect i can say that i changed my MC DPS gloves with lvl 70 blue ones that i finaly managed to find. I had those magmadar DPS plate gloves and i couldt belive that i didnt have one TBC drop to change those. So maybe for casters or other cloth/leather clases you could find better armor, i can say that i switched my gear at end of leveling to 70. About PvP epics, if someone had GM set i doubt they had changed it so easly...GM 2hander was one of best in preTBC game and i doubt someone changed that before level 75.
Maybe it was wrong to w8 that long for first expansion, over two years...thats too long for sure. If blizz do what they say...and that is new expansion every year you will find something else in wow...and that is more casual game where you dont have to get uber gear from end game (in that moment end game) instance because you know that it will be changed in year or so. Looks like they are trying to satirsfy all users...from hard core gamers to more casual players and at end PvPers. In my opinion arenas are really good move in right direction.
Generaly speaking, does WoW sux, will expansion suck etc is mather of opinion really, future arguing about that is same as if we are going to argue is blue color nicer than green. Fact is that if you look at all games in gamelist of this forum and if you sum all players of all those games WoW still have more accounts.
Disapointment of some players who stoped playing mostly came from fact that they lost online friends and they found themselfs alone in mmorpg. I would quit wow for sure but my RL friend started playing so i helped him lvl up etc...i canot say tho that i feel about wow like when i first loged in. I really miss that feeling i had like when i was playing on my first server with my first guild Furians.
about lotro, i got really disapointed...they could make it way better, that game ended in my trash bin only because i have well developed WoW character and Lotro isnt that much better to switch game. I have high expectations of Conan, and i hope it will be good and fresh and new.
--------------------> Would you like some cheese with that whine?
Its been awhile since I poster here mainly because I've been out of the MMORPG scene and wow for the last 8 months. I keep stopping by here to see if there's something that will bring me back. Right now Primarily waiting for Age of Conan as it will be out on Xbox 360 meaning I don't have to upgrade my comp to play it.
The reason I left wow is primarily it just didn't fit with my life I couldn't juggle working 8 hours a day, raiding for 3-4 hours and seeing my gf. Once my gf and I started dating that pretty much just killed all my wow time not that I mind it anyway, I just couldn't commit to raiding and I found myself having a few hours a day that I could play but not enough to stay competitive. And that's what drove me away, I want to be able to stay competitive in this game, but the epic gear is just to good. It would be nice to not be completely outclassed by purples so that skill would matter but that's not the way wow works.
People are angry because its more of the same I would love to come back and play wow if I could take my time work at my own pace and get gear as good as raiders in equal amount of even a longer amount of time as long as I can feel that I will be on par eventually that will be nice. I hope Age of Conan will allow that bu still I am skeptical. The complaints come because its more of the same with the new wow xpac raid or pvp a ton or get left behind as always. I remember when in my blues with a couple of world epics when there was world pvp me and priest were able to trash some guys in MC gear since the gear gap was not ludicrous like it is now. I've been checking out the items on various sites.
I want to come back but first the game has to turn into something I can play a few hours a night like 1 or 2 or when I have more time mor then that and stay competitive in the game. Heck a system like that would even benefit raiders because they could gear up their alts meaning more fun for everyone. But no we get more of the same and additions that are designed to counter features in upcoming games like AOC and WAR.
I just wanted to say my opinions but hopefully the devs will listen and I will find that in the xpac they take into consideration casual gamers and find myself resubscribing to WOW.
WoW has only been distributed widely and massively. no other mmorpg has in the past.
I fear...now they all will.
it will truely begin to suck when gaming companies try to make a game large enough to satiate LargeScale Warfare...but can't hold the attention of a customer base long enough to fully follow thru...face it..people are playing game for a few months...and putting them down , looking up and saying..."ok..whats next!?"
newcomers to the mmorpg worlds are learning that this: is the norm. games will come out month after month only to have population flucuate all over the map....rendering most games, useless in their design,.
Look what happened to Daoc ,several years ago........its not a Largescale warfare game anymore...its a game of 8vs8 or 1vs1 on a bridge.....if you DARE play the game the way it was designed...you WILL be chastised, ridiculed and cast aside by the teeny tiny player base of ye olden days that are still there.
If you play in daoc...you KNOW the deal with going on the VN boards or Vent channels and 'trading' off the relics so every realm has benefits...I see where that could be cool to keep a game fun for all....but it cuts OUT the entire RVR part of it. even when you see a 8v8 fight...everyone leaves the clerics alone so the fight can go on...whateva..i want totall annilation of the enemy..no quarter..fast death and send them back to the login screen. period. not this pamby mamby way of perverting a game to play it..i left daoc.....nowadays, DAOC is basically a single player game like Morrowwind that "happens' to have other people ongame too..<---that is what is has reduced to by a majority of the player base.
that game is designed for largescale warfare..cant happen anymore..no population to support it with New Frontiers....it just can't...its toooo big.( yeah,yeah,yeah,..we all know what the dev's have been asking the communtiy..if they want Old Frontiers back...LMAO...its too frikken late...they dont have enough to fill OF anymore with todays population....)
this will happen to WoW's tiny bg's too...i know, i know..you dont need much to run a bg in WoW..its tiny...but it WILL become affected by WAR and other games coming out....very soon, if not already, people will started complaining about WoW being total PuG's and Elitists.
Mass Distribution has its perks.....but MANY more drawbacks , regarding mmorpgs. sure disribution on that kind of scale is GREAT for a MMORPG!....but not if it sets a "standard" and many more start popping out of the gates the same way.
It'll only thin the herd....and to me: M.M.O.R.P.G. MEANS,.,,,,,MAssive M-u-l-t-i-p-l-a-y-er...not, multiplayer on a teeny tiny scale with massive amounts of people ongame and somewhere else...lol
blah..
------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------ <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert random game here> <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert random game here> --------------------------- <insert witty anecdote here> <political/religious agenda here>
^^ b/c gameplay for level 1 is really no different than level 80?
getting a toon from 60 or 70 up to 80...is esentially no different than lvl1-10, 10-20, 20-30, 30-40..etc...
just more gear..again.
WOW isn't about just playing alone you know. Maybe for the socially inept people who can't find friends and solo green mobs alone for 70 levels it doesn't change too much. The rest of us who beat every dungeon know the game is QUITE different at 20 compared to 70. Your character plays differently and the group dynamics and strategies are quite different in the Deadmines or Wailing Caverns, compared to anything in TBC. If you play the game casually or take the easiest path, don't expect to be challenged. Soloing was never meant to be difficult or challenging and its always quite easy to spot those that always solo....essepcially on forums...they rarely have a clue how the game plays.
You're the one who sounds clueless, oh mighty raider and socializer extrordinaire. The basic premise for the game from beginning to end is based on the carrot on a stick paradigm. Sure there is some differentiation, but the basic theme is always present. Just because the end game forces you to group up or raid up doesn't change the premise. Soloing is not the easy or lazy path, but then again, that has always been the premise of the raiders to justify their monopoly on the best loot. As far as I'm concerned, all play styles should be rewarded equally. Since all of it is relative to perspective, everyone is deserving of rewards based on their playing habits. Only elitists prigs look down their noses at everyone else and come up with the most ridiculous arguments on why they're the masters of the universe.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Originally posted by Qark Why do you all cry about grinding? I played tons of MMORPGs and grindfest is everywhere...look at Eveonline...i played it for 1 week then gave up when i saw that all ill do next 6 months is some stupid repetable quests. Same thing is basicly everywhere. Is WoW much different...yes! You dont really have that much grinding ... i got all needed heroic keys by leveling up + maybe few runs to some instances to get basic tanking armor for first real raid. You need gold? I dont grind for gold much, i buy cheap herbs off AH, mix potions then sell them and make money + now you have daily quests with 11g reward + reputation.
- new level cap - is needed because introducing new skills! You need level to get tallent point, you need talent point to learn new skill, new skill doesnt mean your old skill is useless.
First, crying about grinding (I know I do cuz I friggin hate it) happens because it should never be the only viable exp per hour type of thing. It's frigggin boring. Kill 200 beast, gain a lvl. Sure that's how the majority of games on the planet do it, but this area definitely needs some innovation. Or some color to make it fun and rewarding. Half the time Quest also make you grind. Kill 8/8 buggaboos and blam, Quest complete...turn in to get reward. Half the time I don't even read the quest. I scan straight to the numbers and go complete to get it done faster(or at least make it feel like I'm doing it faster).
Some can say that the road to lvl cap is the meat and potatoes of any game and is what most enjoy. Me personally, I could care less about the road to endgame. Completion of a goal is what is satisfying to me. Endgame is what is fun. My problem is I guess that I always set my goal to lvl cap, and not next lvl.
Pacing and story telling imo are the largest problem in mmo's imo(It's mine however flawed it may be). I understand why though. Money. These things suffer because they want people to be glued to those seats while they rake in the cash.
Look at guildwars. Pretty good story there. Now imagine that story in a larger or persistent world. With all the little options that other MMO's offer. It may not be the greatest mmo( if you consider it one), but it delivers what it didn't want...GRIND.
Now, Secondly...New lvl cap doesn't have to be the only way to earn talent points. They could finalize a damn cap and have xp dictate how you gain the extra 10 talent points. Many other games do this. Sure some MMO players want an ever changing world where nothing is set in stone. But to raise lvl cap every expansion only means one thing...You HAVE TO SPEND MONEY FOR THIS NEW XPANSION TO STAY ON PAR WITH EVERYONE ELSE. To the person who said lvl cap is the motivation used to get players to buy and go through the new areas, well...true, but doesn't have to be. I think that if your dedicated to the game then you will buy and go through the map anyhow.
However, after a some time to think about it...Wow is a gear-centric game. So the quest for better gear is always at the forefront. The lvl cap is probably the only way to add better ever evolving gear choices into the game.
^^ b/c gameplay for level 1 is really no different than level 80?
getting a toon from 60 or 70 up to 80...is esentially no different than lvl1-10, 10-20, 20-30, 30-40..etc...
just more gear..again.
Newsflash:
Its an E X P A N S I O N. not a new game. ofcourse its going to be like level 10 - 20 - 30 - 40 etc. Its an expansion, its there to provide more content.
The only thing I will not like about the new expansion is that we'll just have to do it again, and again. More rep grinds more levels and shamans will get nerfed more.
But if when they add the new pvp aspects I'm sure I'll enjoy that. That and maybe they'll fix my class . Great at 60, terrible at 70, maybe great again at 80.
Comments
So you enjoy EQ2 after it got WoW'ified.
Holy crap that was a long post. People have accused me for writing essays in the past, but this one is amazing. Whatever your point was (I haven't read it yet - I'm going to need some coffee first), you deserve brownie points just for taking the time to write it.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Welcome to world of warcraft. Always seeking to make people who are either mediocre to terrible feel like they are good at the game. It is their whole strategy along with letting Chinese people play for next to nothing with free xpacs.
They earn much less in china which is why they appear to pay less, the average person in china earns $632/month ( Link ) the average American earns $3666/month ( Link ).
lets do some math based an average incomes above
An American pay $15 a month thats 0.4% of his monthly income.
A china player pays about 4 cent/hour, lets say he plays 80 hours a month, thats about $3.20 or 0.5% of his monthly income
So you see we pay about the same, but in most cases pay more in china... we got it good. So no more bull crap about them paying less. its not true.
Yeah they get the expansion free 8 months after we get for $40 (thats 1 good Friday night out). Why not move to china if it upsets you so much.. send me a post card form your Nike sweat shop your working in for 80 hours a week
Two things...
#1) Those numbers are skewed horribly. The extremes of each nation create an unrealistic "average income".
#2) If that's really the case, why didn't they get TBC free?
Face it dude, it's a marketing ploy to get more subs in Asia.
*edit*: Also, that last sentence of yours is extremely racist and prejudice. I suggest you do some research on China before you say that everyone works in a sweatshop.
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He said to me, "On your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that going for me, which is nice.
Always nice to see an SOE employee posting.
While Mr. Longpost there brings up some fine points about some of the niceties of EQII, it reads more like a sales pitch than an actual argument to me. Shill much?
You do realize that adding classes to games through expansions is not only common to MMORPGs, but RPGs as a whole, going all the way back to Diablo and beyond? If that's your reason for hating WoW, you're easily provoked. You're not a Sith are you?
You hate Blizzard because you've used up all your slots on one server, and there is not a single character you can part with? How do you even do that, given the race-class restrictions in the game?
Your hatred is misguided. My recommendation is yoga.
well, my problem isn't so much with them adding new classes via an expansion, my problem with it is that hero classes were originally supposed to be in the original game, so they start adding them in 3 years later or whenever this upcoming expansion comes out AND only 1 class?! for something that was supposed to be in the game 2 1/2 years ago, they should've had plenty of time to work on hero classes and released several with this expansion in my opinion.also, i've been playing this game for over 2 years now, and i enjoy playing ever class--and i know i'm not the only one, and it's very easy to lvl characters in this game, on one account on the same server i've got:
lvl 70 paladin
lvl 70 warrior
lvl 70 warlock
lvl 68 hunter
lvl 64 mage
lvl 62 priest
lvl 51 shaman
my personal bank alt
and my guilds bank alt--understood that this character possibly won't be needed after they bring out guild banks, which i believe is another thing that was promised at release. so yeah it's not a problem for me this expansion, i've got room for a death knight--but if people stick with this game, after a couple expansions what are they going to do with another hero class or 5 more hero classes? think ahead some, it's not hard to reach the limit of characters per server, and their solution of "strategic deletion" honestly pisses me off--and from what i heard a lot of people at Blizzcon weren't happy with them when they stated that they would not add more character slots.
Welcome to world of warcraft. Always seeking to make people who are either mediocre to terrible feel like they are good at the game. It is their whole strategy along with letting Chinese people play for next to nothing with free xpacs.
They earn much less in china which is why they appear to pay less, the average person in china earns $632/month ( Link ) the average American earns $3666/month ( Link ).
lets do some math based an average incomes above
An American pay $15 a month thats 0.4% of his monthly income.
A china player pays about 4 cent/hour, lets say he plays 80 hours a month, thats about $3.20 or 0.5% of his monthly income
So you see we pay about the same, but in most cases pay more in china... we got it good. So no more bull crap about them paying less. its not true.
Yeah they get the expansion free 8 months after we get for $40 (thats 1 good Friday night out). Why not move to china if it upsets you so much.. send me a post card form your Nike sweat shop your working in for 80 hours a week
Two things...
#1) Those numbers are skewed horribly. The extremes of each nation create an unrealistic "average income".
#2) If that's really the case, why didn't they get TBC free?
Face it dude, it's a marketing ploy to get more subs in Asia.
*edit*: Also, that last sentence of yours is extremely racist and prejudice. I suggest you do some research on China before you say that everyone works in a sweatshop.
1) Did you actually read the Wikipedia entry? It has a breakdown of the Industry / Agriculture and services proportions of the relative workforces. With even the most basic knowledge of economics you should be able to see why China is a poorer country overall. There are over 300 million chinese farm workers. Thats agriculture, not game currency btw.
How are the numbers skewed horribly? They're encyclopedic. You're simply in denial. No question, it's really quite amazing how you can simply blank facts out because they don't coincide with your world view. You're in denial of Cupertino's excellent argument that practically blows all conspiracy theories out of the water. Still in denial?
What statistical analysis can you do to determine this? Are you saying that poverty isn't widespread in china? Why are so many of our electronic products manufactured in China? It's because the labor is so cheap over there, everyone is earning a pittance.
It's common sense. There are extremes in both countries, that's the purpose of using averages. There's no more reliable statistical method of clearly showing which countries are wealthier than others.
THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY THE PRICES FOR GAMES THAT WE DO. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE.
2) China had to wait a LOT longer to get this expansion pack than the rest of the world. This is a nice gesture by Blizzard, understandable even if you have no grasp of economics whatsoever.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Its a big world out there in WOW land...never hurts to explore a bit. (I had five level 60's across 3 different servers)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Ppl are just bored of the same old thing....
I think a major breaktrougth on the mmo universe is required, hell i play lotro because i like it and im a fan, but take that out and i'll be bored as hell because we have the same mmorpg style since..... i can't remember.
So well perhaps is just me being burnt out an all... but hell i need something fresh and new. we'll just have to w8 for a brilliant idea from someone with tons of money and well connected.
P.d.: Lotro rules! at least is a lil bit different somehow. Must be the great history behind it.
Extept that it is LOTR story what rules? Character moving like you are playing manic miner from 1982? Or that interface is copy of wow? How about endless grinding there? How about stupid quests? Or how about "wow copy with better graphic" sound? No PvP at all...you cant choose sides cause only one side wins in that game, and we all know end of it...while u WoW you dont know when or how does it end
Truth about WoW is that...it is still most playable and best mmorpg game you can find (for majority of people). It will stay like that untill someone release XYZ...then that game will be most popular untill someone in year release QWERTZ...and so on...
Most ppl who left WoW left because they didnt fit in because after all it IS massive multiplayer! game...so if you dont have online friends to play with you are left alone or whats worst you are left to play with PUGs and that sux big time...
If i wouldnt have online friends in WoW i wouldnt play it for sure...i dont have nothing to do there alone....
I would be really happy that someone make World of Fallout, i would pay 30$ a month to play it and i would be happy...
Eh ye one more thing...i see that much ppl who are posting here are not playing WoW for really long time so they are posting nonsense...game has changed from TBC, it evolved one level for sure (if not two levels)...and its damn good game from every aspect...PvE or PvP
-------------------->
Would you like some cheese with that whine?
I hope the title of this thread is sarcasm. Increasing the level cap without adding new early-game material. And adding more classes, but to the -end- of the game, not the beginning. This destroys replayability - something that WoW is already lacking in.
So, when you're sitting there, after having played for 3 years thinking, "I'm sick of playing my shaman, sick of my warrior, sick of my warlock, and my rogue. Maybe I'll play a new class when the expansion comes out." Nope. Same old classes you've had for the past 3 or more years. But now, they've moved the finish line back some more.
You can make worthwhile expansions without increasing the level cap and making it more difficult on the people that have been playing for a long time. Give them more content, not more of the same quest/rep gain/pvp rewards.
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/played: EQ, EQ II, DAoC, WoW, LoTRO, AoC, CoH/CoV, WAR, Aion, Tera, Wildstar and many others that don't merit listing
/playing: Clash of Clans, Hearthstone
Dude get a grip WTH with all the hostility IT'S MY FREAKING OPPINION!!!!....i dont' care if u like to play russian roulette. It's impossible to write anything lately...everything is full of trolling and fanbois. *Sigh*. I did state the "FOR ME" meaning my single opinon u freaking troll.
And anyhow... wow was a great game... but currently it sucks, in graphics, content, community, and hehehe... lately PvP as well so don't get me that overated freaking wow is the best speech, cuz i've been there kid.
And you missed the whole freaking point of the post... ppl bored of year after year playing the same "mmorpg molding" whatever the name is. they are all the same with subtle differeces. I think that 10 or more years of the same game genere w/o any improvement to the gameplay per se (read this as the same go out, kill, lvl up, gear up, etc) is enough for quite some ppl.
P.D.: I DONT CARE ABOUT WHO LIKE WICH GAME, im talking about the whole genre, and yes i do like lotro better than anyother but AGAIN it is my oppinion!.
I actually belived that this was a joke.. And i'm not a WoW hater, i just don't see the point in paying to grind ?
<blockquote><i>Originally posted by terrant</i>
<br><b><p>Always nice to see an SOE employee posting.</p>
<p>While Mr. Longpost there brings up some fine points about some of the niceties of EQII, it reads more like a sales pitch than an actual argument to me. Shill much?</p></b></blockquote>
<br>
lol I was waiting for someone to think that I was SOE employee, I am not. Although I wish they would maybe give me 1 month credit on my subscription for the shameless plug lol.
I realize I was a bit long winded but alot of people simply do not realize how much eq2 has changed. Yea I realize some of the changes made it a bit easier more user friendly like wow is and that is by no means a bad thing. Like I said earlier I play eq2 and wow and I've played vanguard, DarkandLight as well as guild wars. Never really did much in the other games though.
List of toons in each game:
WoW 61 dwarf rogue, 31 undead priest and various other 20ish toons.
Eq2 70 wood elf wizard 83AA points, 70 Human Paladin 86 AA points, 40 Fae Fury, 36 Dark Elf Necromancer, 26 Arasai Dirge, 22 Gnome Brigand, 15 dwarf Fury on pvp (level locked twinked sorta)
My goal was to get a 70 in wow as well and do some raiding, main reason I play wow too is I have some RL friends from an old job that play so I hang out with them from time to time, the other was I was tired of the wow vs eq2 fud that people were saying about each game without having experienced the other side.
IMO wow was such a hit because it had a very easy learning curve at release, it had VERY minimal hardware requirements so just about anyone with the bottom of the line Dell PC could play it, and it had the fanbase of the 15million or so Battlenet users that played Starcraft, Warcraft 3, Diablo etc to pull from. Also the Blizzard marketing machine is sorta like the Intel marketing machine vs AMD, they really did a great job marketing it and making sure everyone heard about it. Eq2 has suffered from lackluster marketing, I think they did a little better marketing Echoes of Faydwer and I hope they really step up with Rise of Kunark because it is going to be awesome. Eq2 population boomed when EoF released and has been climbing ever since. (no I have no hard numbers to prove this only going from what I see in game and on the newbie forums with new people asking questions daily.
Current Guestimate (only a guess) puts population at around 275k just after EoF release, this is up from a minimum last time Mmochart took a count of around 175k . There are only around 29 servers so it is not a ghostown like some would think having only 275k+ players. Wow's millions of players are spread over hundreds of servers so per server population is similar between eq2 and wow.
One eq2 feature wow is getting soon is "guild banks", I could do another LONG post about the things wow has taken from eq2, same as the stuff eq2 has adapted from wow.
Bottom line, played the game you have the most fun in, they are only games and are meant for entertainment. Don't force yourself to play to grind Honor just because or because you thing it is your only option. Try something new. And if you do play eq2 and on my server I can hook you up with whatever you need. Same for wow, Free lockpicking on Gorefiend!
So you enjoy EQ2 after it got WoW'ified.
Yea even though they made it a bit more like wow still has all the depth that eq2 is known for just more user friendly. A good idea is a good idea if it comes from wow or not.
First off Qark, I never said the expansion would be "bad" or "sux". I merely stated that beyond the excitement of expansion news, there is some apprehension. Do not read more into what I said than what I actually said.
Second, I said that Hellfire greens were comparable to Tier 1 gear. You are then talking about Tier 3 and beyond, which isn't what I was comparing at all. I was pointing out that those people that worked through MC and BWL suddenly found that all that time was essentially wasted, since BoE greens were near-equal quality just no set bonuses. I had a friend whose lock was tier 3/4 and she didn't replace her epics til mid to high 60's. Again, i was speaking of Tier 1/2 gear vs Hellfire greens.
Third, declaring my statement about Hellfire greens vs pvp epics "wrong" was uh well incorrect on your part. You were, again, talking about tier 3+ while I was talking about 60 pvp epic and tier 1/2 gear. Some of the Thrallmar/HH weapons are equal if not better than pvp epic weapons, depending on your class and talent build.
Finally, if you wish to quote me that's fine. Just make sure you actually read what I typed before you make replies that clearly show that you didn't. Hopefully in the next several weeks more details will make expectations of the expansion clearer to us all.
Hey noone complained about that because you could find and use new items right away! You didnt need to get to level 60 just to get your hands on some runes or a new set or a new unique. Plus most of the existing sets gained new attributes.
I think that if they are pricing there expansions a little high 20 bucks would be reasonable considering our montly contributions probably funded the whole project.
If the expansion has new quests / items and lands for ALL levels it would be a better deal to me.
First off Qark, I never said the expansion would be "bad" or "sux". I merely stated that beyond the excitement of expansion news, there is some apprehension. Do not read more into what I said than what I actually said.
Second, I said that Hellfire greens were comparable to Tier 1 gear. You are then talking about Tier 3 and beyond, which isn't what I was comparing at all. I was pointing out that those people that worked through MC and BWL suddenly found that all that time was essentially wasted, since BoE greens were near-equal quality just no set bonuses. I had a friend whose lock was tier 3/4 and she didn't replace her epics til mid to high 60's. Again, i was speaking of Tier 1/2 gear vs Hellfire greens.
Third, declaring my statement about Hellfire greens vs pvp epics "wrong" was uh well incorrect on your part. You were, again, talking about tier 3+ while I was talking about 60 pvp epic and tier 1/2 gear. Some of the Thrallmar/HH weapons are equal if not better than pvp epic weapons, depending on your class and talent build.
Finally, if you wish to quote me that's fine. Just make sure you actually read what I typed before you make replies that clearly show that you didn't. Hopefully in the next several weeks more details will make expectations of the expansion clearer to us all.
O.K. i missunderstood that part with T1 gear, and then its partly true. Talking from warrior aspect i can say that i changed my MC DPS gloves with lvl 70 blue ones that i finaly managed to find. I had those magmadar DPS plate gloves and i couldt belive that i didnt have one TBC drop to change those. So maybe for casters or other cloth/leather clases you could find better armor, i can say that i switched my gear at end of leveling to 70. About PvP epics, if someone had GM set i doubt they had changed it so easly...GM 2hander was one of best in preTBC game and i doubt someone changed that before level 75.Maybe it was wrong to w8 that long for first expansion, over two years...thats too long for sure. If blizz do what they say...and that is new expansion every year you will find something else in wow...and that is more casual game where you dont have to get uber gear from end game (in that moment end game) instance because you know that it will be changed in year or so. Looks like they are trying to satirsfy all users...from hard core gamers to more casual players and at end PvPers. In my opinion arenas are really good move in right direction.
Generaly speaking, does WoW sux, will expansion suck etc is mather of opinion really, future arguing about that is same as if we are going to argue is blue color nicer than green. Fact is that if you look at all games in gamelist of this forum and if you sum all players of all those games WoW still have more accounts.
Disapointment of some players who stoped playing mostly came from fact that they lost online friends and they found themselfs alone in mmorpg. I would quit wow for sure but my RL friend started playing so i helped him lvl up etc...i canot say tho that i feel about wow like when i first loged in. I really miss that feeling i had like when i was playing on my first server with my first guild Furians.
about lotro, i got really disapointed...they could make it way better, that game ended in my trash bin only because i have well developed WoW character and Lotro isnt that much better to switch game. I have high expectations of Conan, and i hope it will be good and fresh and new.
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Would you like some cheese with that whine?
Its been awhile since I poster here mainly because I've been out of the MMORPG scene and wow for the last 8 months. I keep stopping by here to see if there's something that will bring me back. Right now Primarily waiting for Age of Conan as it will be out on Xbox 360 meaning I don't have to upgrade my comp to play it.
The reason I left wow is primarily it just didn't fit with my life I couldn't juggle working 8 hours a day, raiding for 3-4 hours and seeing my gf. Once my gf and I started dating that pretty much just killed all my wow time not that I mind it anyway, I just couldn't commit to raiding and I found myself having a few hours a day that I could play but not enough to stay competitive. And that's what drove me away, I want to be able to stay competitive in this game, but the epic gear is just to good. It would be nice to not be completely outclassed by purples so that skill would matter but that's not the way wow works.
People are angry because its more of the same I would love to come back and play wow if I could take my time work at my own pace and get gear as good as raiders in equal amount of even a longer amount of time as long as I can feel that I will be on par eventually that will be nice. I hope Age of Conan will allow that bu still I am skeptical. The complaints come because its more of the same with the new wow xpac raid or pvp a ton or get left behind as always. I remember when in my blues with a couple of world epics when there was world pvp me and priest were able to trash some guys in MC gear since the gear gap was not ludicrous like it is now. I've been checking out the items on various sites.
I want to come back but first the game has to turn into something I can play a few hours a night like 1 or 2 or when I have more time mor then that and stay competitive in the game. Heck a system like that would even benefit raiders because they could gear up their alts meaning more fun for everyone. But no we get more of the same and additions that are designed to counter features in upcoming games like AOC and WAR.
I just wanted to say my opinions but hopefully the devs will listen and I will find that in the xpac they take into consideration casual gamers and find myself resubscribing to WOW.
"How Can Anyone Hate The New WoW Xpak?!?!"
^^ b/c gameplay for level 1 is really no different than level 80?
getting a toon from 60 or 70 up to 80...is esentially no different than lvl1-10, 10-20, 20-30, 30-40..etc...
just more gear..again.
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Just like Britney Spears Albums and the like.
WoW has only been distributed widely and massively. no other mmorpg has in the past.
I fear...now they all will.
it will truely begin to suck when gaming companies try to make a game large enough to satiate LargeScale Warfare...but can't hold the attention of a customer base long enough to fully follow thru...face it..people are playing game for a few months...and putting them down , looking up and saying..."ok..whats next!?"
newcomers to the mmorpg worlds are learning that this: is the norm. games will come out month after month only to have population flucuate all over the map....rendering most games, useless in their design,.
Look what happened to Daoc ,several years ago........its not a Largescale warfare game anymore...its a game of 8vs8 or 1vs1 on a bridge.....if you DARE play the game the way it was designed...you WILL be chastised, ridiculed and cast aside by the teeny tiny player base of ye olden days that are still there.
If you play in daoc...you KNOW the deal with going on the VN boards or Vent channels and 'trading' off the relics so every realm has benefits...I see where that could be cool to keep a game fun for all....but it cuts OUT the entire RVR part of it. even when you see a 8v8 fight...everyone leaves the clerics alone so the fight can go on...whateva..i want totall annilation of the enemy..no quarter..fast death and send them back to the login screen. period. not this pamby mamby way of perverting a game to play it..i left daoc.....nowadays, DAOC is basically a single player game like Morrowwind that "happens' to have other people ongame too..<---that is what is has reduced to by a majority of the player base.
that game is designed for largescale warfare..cant happen anymore..no population to support it with New Frontiers....it just can't...its toooo big.( yeah,yeah,yeah,..we all know what the dev's have been asking the communtiy..if they want Old Frontiers back...LMAO...its too frikken late...they dont have enough to fill OF anymore with todays population....)
this will happen to WoW's tiny bg's too...i know, i know..you dont need much to run a bg in WoW..its tiny...but it WILL become affected by WAR and other games coming out....very soon, if not already, people will started complaining about WoW being total PuG's and Elitists.
Mass Distribution has its perks.....but MANY more drawbacks , regarding mmorpgs. sure disribution on that kind of scale is GREAT for a MMORPG!....but not if it sets a "standard" and many more start popping out of the gates the same way.
It'll only thin the herd....and to me: M.M.O.R.P.G. MEANS,.,,,,,MAssive M-u-l-t-i-p-l-a-y-er...not, multiplayer on a teeny tiny scale with massive amounts of people ongame and somewhere else...lol
blah..
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WOW isn't about just playing alone you know. Maybe for the socially inept people who can't find friends and solo green mobs alone for 70 levels it doesn't change too much. The rest of us who beat every dungeon know the game is QUITE different at 20 compared to 70. Your character plays differently and the group dynamics and strategies are quite different in the Deadmines or Wailing Caverns, compared to anything in TBC. If you play the game casually or take the easiest path, don't expect to be challenged. Soloing was never meant to be difficult or challenging and its always quite easy to spot those that always solo....essepcially on forums...they rarely have a clue how the game plays.
You're the one who sounds clueless, oh mighty raider and socializer extrordinaire. The basic premise for the game from beginning to end is based on the carrot on a stick paradigm. Sure there is some differentiation, but the basic theme is always present. Just because the end game forces you to group up or raid up doesn't change the premise. Soloing is not the easy or lazy path, but then again, that has always been the premise of the raiders to justify their monopoly on the best loot. As far as I'm concerned, all play styles should be rewarded equally. Since all of it is relative to perspective, everyone is deserving of rewards based on their playing habits. Only elitists prigs look down their noses at everyone else and come up with the most ridiculous arguments on why they're the masters of the universe.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
First, crying about grinding (I know I do cuz I friggin hate it) happens because it should never be the only viable exp per hour type of thing. It's frigggin boring. Kill 200 beast, gain a lvl. Sure that's how the majority of games on the planet do it, but this area definitely needs some innovation. Or some color to make it fun and rewarding.
Half the time Quest also make you grind. Kill 8/8 buggaboos and blam, Quest complete...turn in to get reward. Half the time I don't even read the quest. I scan straight to the numbers and go complete to get it done faster(or at least make it feel like I'm doing it faster).
Some can say that the road to lvl cap is the meat and potatoes of any game and is what most enjoy. Me personally, I could care less about the road to endgame. Completion of a goal is what is satisfying to me. Endgame is what is fun. My problem is I guess that I always set my goal to lvl cap, and not next lvl.
Pacing and story telling imo are the largest problem in mmo's imo(It's mine however flawed it may be). I understand why though. Money. These things suffer because they want people to be glued to those seats while they rake in the cash.
Look at guildwars. Pretty good story there. Now imagine that story in a larger or persistent world. With all the little options that other MMO's offer. It may not be the greatest mmo( if you consider it one), but it delivers what it didn't want...GRIND.
Now, Secondly...New lvl cap doesn't have to be the only way to earn talent points. They could finalize a damn cap and have xp dictate how you gain the extra 10 talent points. Many other games do this. Sure some MMO players want an ever changing world where nothing is set in stone. But to raise lvl cap every expansion only means one thing...You HAVE TO SPEND MONEY FOR THIS NEW XPANSION TO STAY ON PAR WITH EVERYONE ELSE. To the person who said lvl cap is the motivation used to get players to buy and go through the new areas, well...true, but doesn't have to be. I think that if your dedicated to the game then you will buy and go through the map anyhow.
However, after a some time to think about it...Wow is a gear-centric game. So the quest for better gear is always at the forefront. The lvl cap is probably the only way to add better ever evolving gear choices into the game.
Newsflash:
Its an E X P A N S I O N. not a new game. ofcourse its going to be like level 10 - 20 - 30 - 40 etc. Its an expansion, its there to provide more content.
The only thing I will not like about the new expansion is that we'll just have to do it again, and again. More rep grinds more levels and shamans will get nerfed more.
But if when they add the new pvp aspects I'm sure I'll enjoy that. That and maybe they'll fix my class
. Great at 60, terrible at 70, maybe great again at 80.