It is not really a MMO, more like a diablo clone. You don't see a diablo section do you?
Nope but I do see Guildwars and Dungeon Runners here. If those two are here then hellgate should be here.
I think they should either set up an area for these type online games or remove those two games and probably a half dozen or so other games that are listed here that are not true MMORPG.
I'd classify Hellgate:London as a FPSRPG. The first of its kind. It's going to have a single player aspect to the game. It will also have a paid subscription model with constantly upgraded content. HL does have a similarity to GW in that there will be meeting points where you can find others to quest with. In any case I know I'm purchasing this game at launch whether it's considered an MMO or not.
As far as a Diablo II clone. I'm sure there are going to be Diablo II aspects of the game since the top developers of HL were the top developers of Diablo II.
BTW I think HL will be the top selling pc game over Christmas by a long shot (if not the top selling video game over all platforms).
Did I say anything about "wtf is this all about why is hellgate not here" I am merely trying to say that IN MY BELIEF it is an mmorpg. I have no issues regarding hellgate being listed on here or not at all - all im trying to point out is that people define mmo in different ways. You dont need to bash me "oh go read the rules you stupid idiot!" because I did, and thats why im not whining about hellgate not being here. Youre treating it as if these rules are by an all knowing almighty person from some kind of society who sets all the rules and has to be followed by the gaming market. In fact it was companies who started saying our game is massive... are there specific sets of guidelines like standards that are implemented and are effective around the world? No. In fact it is very vauge and please dont point me on to a wikipedia article. Its vague as shit... large number of players... what is it that defines large? 50?100? persistent world... what does that actually mean??? constant, continuing, durable, enduring, eternal, everlasting, fast, indestructible, lasting, permanent, persistent, persisting, steadfast, steady, unchanging..
Until we get a proper organisation that sets all the regulations for on line games and categorize it properly in a very tedious and technical manner, then the term mmo is open for interpretation and anyone who forces down their ideas as if it is set should be slapped in the face. In the end we are all here for our own opinionated views and I am fully open to whatever criticism
persistent world=continuing. If the world continues and changes while you are logged off. That is a persistent world.
I'd classify Hellgate:London as a FPSRPG. The first of its kind. It's going to have a single player aspect to the game. It will also have a paid subscription model with constantly upgraded content. HL does have a similarity to GW in that there will be meeting points where you can find others to quest with. In any case I know I'm purchasing this game at launch whether it's considered an MMO or not. As far as a Diablo II clone. I'm sure there are going to be Diablo II aspects of the game since the top developers of HL were the top developers of Diablo II. BTW I think HL will be the top selling pc game over Christmas by a long shot (if not the top selling video game over all platforms).
Haven't looked up Hellgate that much.. But that's really disheartening if you have to pay per month to play on the online servers.. Diablo 2 had tons of servers, free as all get out. All games also have patches, provided for free in the case of RPGs.
Without jumping to conclusions and downing the game, what about Hellgate makes it worth it to pay per month for the same type of gameplay Diablo 2 provided, only updated? I would assume plot advancements.. But I don't think the single player playerbase would approve of being left with the story hanging and having to pay an extra 15 bucks to get the next piece of the plot. What, exactly, is my 15 bucks paying for?
"The Hellgate: London secure online experience is structured around shared, multi-player towns linking together randomly generated, “instanced” adventure areas, unique for a single-player or group of players. Both free players and subscribers will be playing together in groups and guilds on huge realms supporting tens of thousands of players simultaneously.
We want as many players as possible to find and group with their friends online, regardless of when or where their characters were created. Gone are the days of worrying about making sure your new character will be able to play with your old friends. Everyone gets access to our secure multi-player game servers. Players can party and trade with other players and play through the entire adventure to save London from the grip of the demons."
if not being able to instance with over 90 or what ever players = not a mmo then what is wow? a mmo from 1-69 then a online game from 70?
i understand some of the points being said - i just dont agree
Well, Hellgate London is instanced in most areas just like Guild wars.
Towns are MMO, just like Guild Wars.
You can join guilds, Just like Guild wars.
You can quest with a party, Just like guild wars.
This game is just like guild wars in its network and how you connect and play.
If guild wars is here, then Hellgate: London belongs here as well. Not to mention the plain and simple fact that every single other mmorpg site that lists all mmorpgs has information on Hellgate: London.
Haven't looked up Hellgate that much.. But that's really disheartening if you have to pay per month to play on the online servers.. Diablo 2 had tons of servers, free as all get out. All games also have patches, provided for free in the case of RPGs.
Without jumping to conclusions and downing the game, what about Hellgate makes it worth it to pay per month for the same type of gameplay Diablo 2 provided, only updated? I would assume plot advancements.. But I don't think the single player playerbase would approve of being left with the story hanging and having to pay an extra 15 bucks to get the next piece of the plot. What, exactly, is my 15 bucks paying for?
You will be able to play online without a monthly fee also. I think the monthly fee will include extra stuff such as more character slots, more storage, monthly content updates, with a bigger content addition ever 3 months.
The free online version will get bug fixes and such but not the added content. This is the same as you got with D2.
I have heard the figure 10 bucks or 9.95 for the monthly fee. I assume this is for a month by month subscription, not sure if you get a discount for subscribing for longer times like most MMORPG do.
Personally I plan to get the game and play the free online version. If they offer enough and I think its worth the cost then I may add the subscription later on.
Like I said before, do you see diablo or any of it's clones here? Nope, they are not MMO's hence this game does not belong here.
You people should know about the game you are against before you start saying it doesnt belong here.
Here are a couple comments about the game from people that make it and from reveiw preview sites.
In summary, Hellgate: London is an MMOG which combines the depth of role-playing games and the action of first-person shooter elements but I don t think one line does the game enough justice. J Hellgate has so many outstanding features that it s difficult for me to list all of them. In my opinion though, one of the key and best features of HGL is its randomized loot and instance system. Because the loot and instances are randomized, players never know what they are going to get each time they play. It s a new and exciting experience every time!
Don't be misled by the above to think that Hellgate is a simple Diablo clone. This is a 3D RPG that easily lives up to the graphical standards of the very latest FPS games, and which is an entirely new hybrid between single-player RPGs and MMORPGs.
As in a typical MMORPG, you will meet other players in the Underground, but then you will be able to embark on instanced missions. This means that your missions will be unique to you, and you won’t have the experience ruined by other players stealing XP or items.
Anyways, its not like Diablo when it comes to online, its more like Guild Wars, where as you have instanced worlds with MMO style towns.
So like I said before, if Guild Wars is here so should Hellgate London be here.
HG:L will have a HUGE following, myself included, leaving it out is just bad business, had this been my site I would make up an excuse to put it here if needed.
It is not though, it is close enough to an MMO to easily fit in here, more so then many of the others allready on this site.
Its like selling that bread "margarin" they sell in the dairy section, allthough it has never been anywere near milk, why?
Because people want to buy it, and easily find it!
Or putting hot chicks into commercial for products that has surprisingly little to do with scantily clad women, why?
Because it sells!
Arguing semantics over this is a kids game, is it a bird? is it a plane? No! it is people that need to get of their ridiculously high hoursies and get with the program.
End of bloody story.
If they do not want to put it here then that is their decision, a financially bad one but it is still theirs to make.
But arguing that it does not "fit" here is idiotic at best and ignorant at worst.
Let me tell you something, it fits on this site a THOUSAND times more then gold seller ads does, but why do they have those?
Because they PAY them to!
Actually, that was the end of the bloody story.
No really, it was.
Bah..
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
wrong - hellgate london is actually a free and subs based (players choice) mmo with a offline feature too! this site could do with a hellgate section as its going to be massive
Actually it could be looked the other way; a single player game with an online feature.
Plus, how many ppl can play at the same time on the internet?
Why argue? Here are the requirements. If you think it fits these requirements, then submit the game to be added.
Second, make sure that it completes our definition of a MMORPG:
500 or more simultaneous players in one world.
The game must include some form of graphical common area. This distinction means Diablo II is not considered an MMORPG, while Guild Wars is.
It must be graphical...so no text based MUDs.
Persistent characters.
Some form of character advancement.
It must use a true client/server connection. In other words, no HTML or "web" based games. Games that run in a browser using Java are OK.
Five or more screenshots from inside of the game engine itself.
A professional web site free of annoying pop-up ads or Spyware programs and access to some kind of support system.
Must fully support English. This means the client interface, in-game chat, help system and support website must all be in English.
NOTE: At this time we are no longer adding 2D/Isometric games to our list - we will add these again at a later date once we adapt our list to allow feature filtering.
If the game fails to meet any of these criteria, we do not include it on MMORPG.com. Occasionally, we will cover high profile games that have not yet met the screenshot criteria, but they will still not be included in the “Game List”.
Ultimately, MMORPG.com reserves the right of final judgment on whether or not a game should or should not be added to our game list.
If you know a game that meets all of the criteria listed above, please email it to editor@mmorpg.com.
Didn't want to rejoin the whole Guild Wars versus Diablo versus Hellgate London debate because no matter what side you take, somebody's going to log on and tell you you're wrong. But I did want to share my experience from another gaming community.
I belong to a group called TWCenter.net, a community devoted to medieval/ancient strategy games. The Total War series to be exact, plus plenty of Age of Empires and Rise of Nations players. Yet the site also has a large section devoted to Company of Heroes, a World War II strategy game. Why? Because Company of Heroes is a great game with cool features and plenty of historical detail. While it doesn't technically fit the "ancient war genre" of the TWCenter site, it's still a game that the target community greatly enjoys.
My biggest problem with this site sometimes is the number of warring camps that refuse to acknowledge whether another game is "truly" an MMO. You have the WOW fans who think all games must have PVP and uber gear to qualify; EVE and SWG vets who think only sandbox games qualify; and people like me who feel games that may not be "traditional" EQ/WOW style but still have a large online community (like Guild Wars and possibly Fury or Hellgate) should be given benefit of the doubt.
I understand the editors have strict rules as to what qualifies and for good reason. But if a game has great RPG qualities and also a sizeable online population, I would urge it not be dismissed out-of-hand.
It is not really a MMO, more like a diablo clone. You don't see a diablo section do you?
Why do you people compare it to Diablo? I'm in the alpha, and the game is nowhere near diablo style. Sure, it has demons, but that's about it. It's a 1st/3rd person game, d2 is not. If you want to compare a game to diablo, compare it to Mythos. I'm in the beta and it feels like diablo brought to current technology.
You will be able to play online for free well the price of the box game anyway. The pay part is for extra stuff and extra content updates. The free online people will also be able to play in groups and such with the subscribers.
I don't think guildwars should be on it personally, it's an multiplayer game with online capability, it's not like an MMORPG where it's in constant development or anything.
It will have constant development. That is why there is a monthly fee.
Ill bump this somewhat old post. because this is the newest post in regards to HGL when i searched for it.
HGL should be on this site in the same way and other instanced MMO are on this site. HGL has large central "HUB" meeting areas, where anyone on the server can go to party, socialize, trade, get quests, place items on the auction house. There has been no official announcement on how many players are supported in these towns, but rumors are 100-200 and more. Thats pretty massive in comparison to many MMOs on this site that dont even have 100 people online at the same time anymore.
So massive isnt a question. As thousands of players on a server, and over 100 players in a single zone is massive. Because when it comes right down to it, it doesnt matter how many players a zone can support in an MMO, what matters is how many people are really there.
Hellgate London will NOT be like diablo in the way that you sit in a lobby and create a small 8 person server. No, you will have dedicated persistent servers running 24/7. You log on, you go to town, you put an item on the auction house, you log out, 5 hours later you log on, your item is still on the same auction house. There will be guild houses, these guild house dont disappear when you log off.
So persistance is not an issue either.
As far as other technicalitys.
HGL has an official website, updated and add-free.
HGL will have a free based plan and a subscription based plan.
HGL will be constantly developed for, including content patches and expansion packs.
HGL will have pvp, hardcore and RP modes.
In the end its developed by Flagship Studios, ex creators of Diablo 1 & 2. its going to be a massive game, if it were on this site you would draw a lot of traffic, second to only WoW is i had to guess.
There are already tons of great fansites and news sites though, so its not a big deal if its not on this site. Your loss really.
But im not even debating if it should be here, because it doesnt matter much. Only debating its "MMO status".
Yes, Hellgate SHOULD be listed on this site. It is 100% an MMO, if you can call Guild Wars and PSO an MMO. I can understand not putting Halo, CS, or Diablo on here, as they do not have a persistant server world. There isn't even a "graphical" lobby to mingle with other players.
But Hellgate has this for sure. The stations (cities), are small, but they contain numerous people. So far there is no server selection. Just log in and play. But from these stations, people can and will group together, and ZONE into a randomized zone, together, to complete an objective.
You can buy and sell items, trade with other players, chat privately and openly with people and the server. You can create groups and guilds. There is character advancement, quests, etc. I'm not sure why mmorpg.com hasn't put this game on their list yet.
Hellgate: London IS an MMO. And for that matter, so is Mythos. As it's along the same lines of features.
It is not really a MMO, more like a diablo clone. You don't see a diablo section do you?
Why do you people compare it to Diablo? I'm in the alpha, and the game is nowhere near diablo style. Sure, it has demons, but that's about it. It's a 1st/3rd person game, d2 is not. If you want to compare a game to diablo, compare it to Mythos. I'm in the beta and it feels like diablo brought to current technology.
You said it is nowhere near Diablo, and then say it is Diablo with current tech. lol
I'm not sure why mmorpg.com hasn't put this game on their list yet.
Well, if I had to guess, it fails this test: "500 or more simultaneous players in one world."
Yes, I know, GW and PSU probably fail as well, but I think they got on the site before the above rule was established (in fact, they were probably the reason the rule was created) so they get to stay.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
I think they should either set up an area for these type online games or remove those two games and probably a half dozen or so other games that are listed here that are not true MMORPG.
I'd classify Hellgate:London as a FPSRPG. The first of its kind. It's going to have a single player aspect to the game. It will also have a paid subscription model with constantly upgraded content. HL does have a similarity to GW in that there will be meeting points where you can find others to quest with. In any case I know I'm purchasing this game at launch whether it's considered an MMO or not.
As far as a Diablo II clone. I'm sure there are going to be Diablo II aspects of the game since the top developers of HL were the top developers of Diablo II.
BTW I think HL will be the top selling pc game over Christmas by a long shot (if not the top selling video game over all platforms).
Ranghar LoD
Lords of Death
I've been saying "yes" to that for years.
Without jumping to conclusions and downing the game, what about Hellgate makes it worth it to pay per month for the same type of gameplay Diablo 2 provided, only updated? I would assume plot advancements.. But I don't think the single player playerbase would approve of being left with the story hanging and having to pay an extra 15 bucks to get the next piece of the plot. What, exactly, is my 15 bucks paying for?
i quote the devs
"The Hellgate: London secure online experience is structured around shared, multi-player towns linking together randomly generated, “instanced” adventure areas, unique for a single-player or group of players. Both free players and subscribers will be playing together in groups and guilds on huge realms supporting tens of thousands of players simultaneously.
We want as many players as possible to find and group with their friends online, regardless of when or where their characters were created. Gone are the days of worrying about making sure your new character will be able to play with your old friends. Everyone gets access to our secure multi-player game servers. Players can party and trade with other players and play through the entire adventure to save London from the grip of the demons."
if not being able to instance with over 90 or what ever players = not a mmo then what is wow? a mmo from 1-69 then a online game from 70?
i understand some of the points being said - i just dont agree
from the wikipedia definition
"Massive(ly) multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) is a genre of online role-playing video games (RPGs) in which a large number of players interact with one another in a virtual world."
so hellgate ticks those boxes too
Its amazing what people dont know.
Well, Hellgate London is instanced in most areas just like Guild wars.
Towns are MMO, just like Guild Wars.
You can join guilds, Just like Guild wars.
You can quest with a party, Just like guild wars.
This game is just like guild wars in its network and how you connect and play.
If guild wars is here, then Hellgate: London belongs here as well. Not to mention the plain and simple fact that every single other mmorpg site that lists all mmorpgs has information on Hellgate: London.
Its a no brainer.
You will be able to play online without a monthly fee also. I think the monthly fee will include extra stuff such as more character slots, more storage, monthly content updates, with a bigger content addition ever 3 months.
The free online version will get bug fixes and such but not the added content. This is the same as you got with D2.
I have heard the figure 10 bucks or 9.95 for the monthly fee. I assume this is for a month by month subscription, not sure if you get a discount for subscribing for longer times like most MMORPG do.
Personally I plan to get the game and play the free online version. If they offer enough and I think its worth the cost then I may add the subscription later on.
Like I said before, do you see diablo or any of it's clones here? Nope, they are not MMO's hence this game does not belong here.
You people should know about the game you are against before you start saying it doesnt belong here.
Here are a couple comments about the game from people that make it and from reveiw preview sites.
In summary, Hellgate: London is an MMOG which combines the depth of role-playing games and the action of first-person shooter elements but I don
t think one line does the game enough justice. J Hellgate has so many outstanding features that it
s difficult for me to list all of them. In my opinion though, one of the key and best features of HGL is its randomized loot and instance system. Because the loot and instances are randomized, players never know what they are going to get each time they play. It
s a new and exciting experience every time!
Don't be misled by the above to think that Hellgate is a simple Diablo clone. This is a 3D RPG that easily lives up to the graphical standards of the very latest FPS games, and which is an entirely new hybrid between single-player RPGs and MMORPGs.
As in a typical MMORPG, you will meet other players in the Underground, but then you will be able to embark on instanced missions. This means that your missions will be unique to you, and you won’t have the experience ruined by other players stealing XP or items.
Anyways, its not like Diablo when it comes to online, its more like Guild Wars, where as you have instanced worlds with MMO style towns.
So like I said before, if Guild Wars is here so should Hellgate London be here.
The bottom line is, well the bottom line.
HG:L will have a HUGE following, myself included, leaving it out is just bad business, had this been my site I would make up an excuse to put it here if needed.
It is not though, it is close enough to an MMO to easily fit in here, more so then many of the others allready on this site.
Its like selling that bread "margarin" they sell in the dairy section, allthough it has never been anywere near milk, why?
Because people want to buy it, and easily find it!
Or putting hot chicks into commercial for products that has surprisingly little to do with scantily clad women, why?
Because it sells!
Arguing semantics over this is a kids game, is it a bird? is it a plane? No! it is people that need to get of their ridiculously high hoursies and get with the program.
End of bloody story.
If they do not want to put it here then that is their decision, a financially bad one but it is still theirs to make.
But arguing that it does not "fit" here is idiotic at best and ignorant at worst.
Let me tell you something, it fits on this site a THOUSAND times more then gold seller ads does, but why do they have those?
Because they PAY them to!
Actually, that was the end of the bloody story.
No really, it was.
Bah..
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If they really want to stick to MMORPG only here then they should remove both those games from this site.
Why argue? Here are the requirements. If you think it fits these requirements, then submit the game to be added.
Second, make sure that it completes our definition of a MMORPG:
NOTE: At this time we are no longer adding 2D/Isometric games to our list - we will add these again at a later date once we adapt our list to allow feature filtering.
If the game fails to meet any of these criteria, we do not include it on MMORPG.com. Occasionally, we will cover high profile games that have not yet met the screenshot criteria, but they will still not be included in the “Game List”.
Ultimately, MMORPG.com reserves the right of final judgment on whether or not a game should or should not be added to our game list.
If you know a game that meets all of the criteria listed above, please email it to editor@mmorpg.com.
Didn't want to rejoin the whole Guild Wars versus Diablo versus Hellgate London debate because no matter what side you take, somebody's going to log on and tell you you're wrong. But I did want to share my experience from another gaming community.
I belong to a group called TWCenter.net, a community devoted to medieval/ancient strategy games. The Total War series to be exact, plus plenty of Age of Empires and Rise of Nations players. Yet the site also has a large section devoted to Company of Heroes, a World War II strategy game. Why? Because Company of Heroes is a great game with cool features and plenty of historical detail. While it doesn't technically fit the "ancient war genre" of the TWCenter site, it's still a game that the target community greatly enjoys.
My biggest problem with this site sometimes is the number of warring camps that refuse to acknowledge whether another game is "truly" an MMO. You have the WOW fans who think all games must have PVP and uber gear to qualify; EVE and SWG vets who think only sandbox games qualify; and people like me who feel games that may not be "traditional" EQ/WOW style but still have a large online community (like Guild Wars and possibly Fury or Hellgate) should be given benefit of the doubt.
I understand the editors have strict rules as to what qualifies and for good reason. But if a game has great RPG qualities and also a sizeable online population, I would urge it not be dismissed out-of-hand.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Hellgate= multiplayer..that you will have to pay for the online part of the game.
www.1up.com/do/newsStory
Why do you people compare it to Diablo? I'm in the alpha, and the game is nowhere near diablo style. Sure, it has demons, but that's about it. It's a 1st/3rd person game, d2 is not. If you want to compare a game to diablo, compare it to Mythos. I'm in the beta and it feels like diablo brought to current technology.
You will be able to play online for free well the price of the box game anyway. The pay part is for extra stuff and extra content updates. The free online people will also be able to play in groups and such with the subscribers.
It will have constant development. That is why there is a monthly fee.
If Guild Wars is on there, Hellgate London should be too.
i think so... guild wars is on there, but why not Hellgate London isn't on there?
Ill bump this somewhat old post. because this is the newest post in regards to HGL when i searched for it.
HGL should be on this site in the same way and other instanced MMO are on this site. HGL has large central "HUB" meeting areas, where anyone on the server can go to party, socialize, trade, get quests, place items on the auction house. There has been no official announcement on how many players are supported in these towns, but rumors are 100-200 and more. Thats pretty massive in comparison to many MMOs on this site that dont even have 100 people online at the same time anymore.
So massive isnt a question. As thousands of players on a server, and over 100 players in a single zone is massive. Because when it comes right down to it, it doesnt matter how many players a zone can support in an MMO, what matters is how many people are really there.
Hellgate London will NOT be like diablo in the way that you sit in a lobby and create a small 8 person server. No, you will have dedicated persistent servers running 24/7. You log on, you go to town, you put an item on the auction house, you log out, 5 hours later you log on, your item is still on the same auction house. There will be guild houses, these guild house dont disappear when you log off.
So persistance is not an issue either.
As far as other technicalitys.
HGL has an official website, updated and add-free.
HGL will have a free based plan and a subscription based plan.
HGL will be constantly developed for, including content patches and expansion packs.
HGL will have pvp, hardcore and RP modes.
In the end its developed by Flagship Studios, ex creators of Diablo 1 & 2. its going to be a massive game, if it were on this site you would draw a lot of traffic, second to only WoW is i had to guess.
There are already tons of great fansites and news sites though, so its not a big deal if its not on this site. Your loss really.
But im not even debating if it should be here, because it doesnt matter much. Only debating its "MMO status".
Yes, Hellgate SHOULD be listed on this site. It is 100% an MMO, if you can call Guild Wars and PSO an MMO. I can understand not putting Halo, CS, or Diablo on here, as they do not have a persistant server world. There isn't even a "graphical" lobby to mingle with other players.
But Hellgate has this for sure. The stations (cities), are small, but they contain numerous people. So far there is no server selection. Just log in and play. But from these stations, people can and will group together, and ZONE into a randomized zone, together, to complete an objective.
You can buy and sell items, trade with other players, chat privately and openly with people and the server. You can create groups and guilds. There is character advancement, quests, etc. I'm not sure why mmorpg.com hasn't put this game on their list yet.
Hellgate: London IS an MMO. And for that matter, so is Mythos. As it's along the same lines of features.
Why do you people compare it to Diablo? I'm in the alpha, and the game is nowhere near diablo style. Sure, it has demons, but that's about it. It's a 1st/3rd person game, d2 is not. If you want to compare a game to diablo, compare it to Mythos. I'm in the beta and it feels like diablo brought to current technology.
You said it is nowhere near Diablo, and then say it is Diablo with current tech. lol
Yes, I know, GW and PSU probably fail as well, but I think they got on the site before the above rule was established (in fact, they were probably the reason the rule was created) so they get to stay.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon