It's your life mate. If you can see no advantage or take no joy in making the effort to please other people, I truly do believe that is your loss.
What goes around comes around. Make no effort with people, and they won't make any with you. Not to mention the sheer karmic reward to be found from trying to please people.
It's not for me to tell you how to live your life, or to judge the things you do. It does sound rather miserable though. I do feel sorry for you. I don't feel you are doing anything wrong, just missing out on some of the simple pleasures in life.
Now that you have linked me to that post perhaps you would like to re-read the third line of it. This is the only line that discusses my feelings toward gender-benders.
Any further issues you are reading into it are your own.
So you're saying that transgenders are 'sad' for being born with bodies and minds that don't match up? It is not wrong to be different. There are heaps of transexuals, gays, and bisexuals in the modern world. I have a few friends in these categories and they are great people who don't need to be told that they are 'sad'. Even if they're straight and they do it for kicks, don't get so pissy, they will do what they want in life. If you don't like it then it is nobody's problem but your own. These are games we are playing, virtual environments in which you can be someone else and live a different life. Please grow up and start treating all people with respect, even if it creeps you out. Learn to not get all freaked out and you will not have a problem. You see, the problem is your ignorance and lack of empathy. It is your problem, not theirs; fix yourself. I sure you're aware of this, but not all that many females are gamers. Sure, there are some, but the gender of majority in all games is male. Many of the females that do game play with their husbands/boyfriends and are only really there because of them. If you like girls so much, try leaving your house. You'll find many more out there.
Dippy, I can't believe you posted both of those paragraphs back to back. You're first paragraph showed what an open minded person you are when it comes to sexual preference, but your second post seems really naive. There are a lot more female game players then you would imagine. Yes, the majority are still male, but it's evening out quickly and I can easily see a time in the near future where it will either be equal or may even start to lean towards the female side. I'd also have to disagree with you on your comment that many females are only there because of their husbands/boyfriends. I believe it's true that a large number of females play with their husbands/boyfriends, but a lot of the guys I have talked to say their girlfriend/wife is more into the game than they are and for some it was the wife/girlfriend that got the husband/boyfriend involved in the game, not vice versa. There's a feeling in these games that many of the female characters are actually played by guys and that's probably true, but there are also a lot of females playing male and female characters. Sometimes they don't even let the people they play with know this until they are comfortable letting them know because of the stereotyping that is done like your above post.
So what makes me an expert on the subject? Nothing. However a large majority of the time that I play, I either use ventrilo and/or belong to a guild where it's common to give a brief profile of ourselves and possibly even pictures and in my experience, the number of female to male players is approaching 50%. I know several girlfriend/boyfriend couples that play and several husband/wife couples that play. It's possible that my experience is not the norm, but I doubt it and even if it is there are still a lot more female players than your second paragraph suggests. I think you may need to open your mind a bit on that subject.
Gender does not matter to me... I play both sexes in games. I especially like to level female toons just for the free loot I can get.
DAoC and WoW were great for free loot. I would get drive by trades sitting in towns and some of the items were very very nice. I have no problems with exploiting this aspect of MMOs. Female toons can be broken up into 4 groups.
1) Men wanting to stare at a pixel butt to get their rocks off.
2) Men wanting to exploit other men for gear/gold.
3) Women wanting the attention a female toon generates especially when it is know they are really female.
4) Women who enjoy MMOs.
2 and 3 are easy to spot as they are very flirtatious and declare themselves real females without much prompting. They also use manipulation in obvious ways (pouting, flirting, etc).
4 will be much more reserved about actually being female outside a comfortable group/guild because of the kind of attention it attracts.
1 will usually set you straight about them being a guy if asked just to avoid the tells from other guys.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Originally posted by baff If you enjoy role playing good for you, but most of us aren't role playing with you. We are just playing. And even if we were roleplaying, what possible enjoyment would you expect a bloke to get from playing the role of Shee-ra the Seductress. Why even choose that role?
The same enjoyment I get from playing Grodd the Destroyer, or Zarnak the Wise, or Bettina the Warrior Queen. It's a character. Why does anyone role-play a character who is not themselves? I can play an Orc, or an Elf, or a Wizard, none of which exist in the real world. Playing a female is hardly a stretch.
Why is that a character you are intrested in developing? You could just as easily be Burt the Warrior King. Why Bettina, we can all do it. We can all play that role, but why would you want to?
Of all the roles available for you to chose, why chose the sexually ambiguous one?
You know you are going to be interacting with other males. You know what this role involves, when does this become fun. If you role player you are just going to end up chatting up other blokes.
Everybody knows this will happen right from the outset. I will never be able to empathise with this being fun.
Now if you are gay and get off on chatting up other blokes, I can see where you are coming from. If that little bit of roleplay sexual friction is doing it for you, I see why. But that's pretty creepy. Why not just roleplay Burt the Warrior Queen. You can still chat up all the fella's. We're all liberal folk. We don't mind.
For the non roleplayers I think the element of deceit is the major discomfort.
For the roleplayers, that's not a role I am comfortable playing with you. I don't want to act out being the man to your woman. Sorry but I have other preferences. It's an area of roleplay that I consider a personal taboo.
So you're saying that transgenders are 'sad' for being born with bodies and minds that don't match up? It is not wrong to be different. There are heaps of transexuals, gays, and bisexuals in the modern world. I have a few friends in these categories and they are great people who don't need to be told that they are 'sad'. Even if they're straight and they do it for kicks, don't get so pissy, they will do what they want in life. If you don't like it then it is nobody's problem but your own. These are games we are playing, virtual environments in which you can be someone else and live a different life. Please grow up and start treating all people with respect, even if it creeps you out. Learn to not get all freaked out and you will not have a problem. You see, the problem is your ignorance and lack of empathy. It is your problem, not theirs; fix yourself.
I sure you're aware of this, but not all that many females are gamers. Sure, there are some, but the gender of majority in all games is male. Many of the females that do game play with their husbands/boyfriends and are only really there because of them. If you like girls so much, try leaving your house. You'll find many more out there.
I don't believe I am saying any of this no. Any issue you have with this subject is clearly your own.
I think I mention my opinon on gender benders in the third line of my post that you have quoted. Please target your crusade for sexual tolerance elsewhere. I have no intrest in it.
And yes many of the girls I play with do have husbands and boyfriends and guess what, I still like to play with them. I still prefer to play with them. I also play with single girls too. And yes I also meet girls in my home, outside my home and everywhere I go. I flirt with girls on the phone, in rush hour traffic, I pull in the supermarket, at the nightclub, at the dentist, in church, at work. Everywhere I go. There has never been any shortage. One in every two people is a girl.
Computer games are by no means the only place I enjoy female contact. I see no reason why my social interactions online should by any different from those offline. Just because a girl is playing a game online doesn't mean she doesn't want to be found attractive by men. It doesn't change anything.
It is basic good manners to demonstrate sexual attraction to members of the opposite sex. Online or off. Married or single. Old or young, beautiful or disfigured. A compliment, a greeting marked with a kiss. It's the little niceties that make all the difference.
"I like playing with guys and gender benders too.",doesn't justify, "If you're the sort who likes to roleplay being a member of the opposite sex, I have to say that you creep me out. It's not such a big issue, but it is very creepy. Really. You get your jollies prick teasing another man? Sticking pins in their ego? The jokes on you.", and "Really. The joke is on you. You are very sad." I suggest you keep such opinions to yourself in the future.
About the male to female online interaction, I agree. Aside from body language, which is only somewhat replicated by emotes, people will generally act the same. I've done some flirting with girls on a game or two before as well. And if you prefer the company of women, I understand that too.
What I don't like is this problem you seem to have with males playing female characters and RPers. You don't have to freak out about some chick you were hitting on turning out to be a guy. If you didn't know at the time, what's the big deal? Maybe that guy likes pretending to be female, maybe he was role playing. It doesn't matter, just don't insult people due to your inability to understand them. Saying, "Really. The Joke is on you. You are very sad." is a little harsh, don't you think?
Dippy, I can't believe you posted both of those paragraphs back to back. You're first paragraph showed what an open minded person you are when it comes to sexual preference, but your second post seems really naive. There are a lot more female game players then you would imagine. Yes, the majority are still male, but it's evening out quickly and I can easily see a time in the near future where it will either be equal or may even start to lean towards the female side. I'd also have to disagree with you on your comment that many females are only there because of their husbands/boyfriends. I believe it's true that a large number of females play with their husbands/boyfriends, but a lot of the guys I have talked to say their girlfriend/wife is more into the game than they are and for some it was the wife/girlfriend that got the husband/boyfriend involved in the game, not vice versa. There's a feeling in these games that many of the female characters are actually played by guys and that's probably true, but there are also a lot of females playing male and female characters. Sometimes they don't even let the people they play with know this until they are comfortable letting them know because of the stereotyping that is done like your above post. So what makes me an expert on the subject? Nothing. However a large majority of the time that I play, I either use ventrilo and/or belong to a guild where it's common to give a brief profile of ourselves and possibly even pictures and in my experience, the number of female to male players is approaching 50%. I know several girlfriend/boyfriend couples that play and several husband/wife couples that play. It's possible that my experience is not the norm, but I doubt it and even if it is there are still a lot more female players than your second paragraph suggests. I think you may need to open your mind a bit on that subject.
You might have a good point. I regret that second paragraph. I've met a fair amount of girls that like gaming, even a few in person. However, I honestly think it's more like 1 female for every 100 males (complete guess), but I admit I could very well be way off. The fact is I really don't know. I've never even seen any statistics on the subject. Still, whatever I may think, I'd love to see more girl-gamers.
So let me ask this question, if a guy is playing a female toon but not making any advances on anyone else, dancing naked, etc, why do some idiots insist on still hitting on him?
Sure, I sometimes get crap from other guildies about having girl alts (my main is invevitably a male) but they usually shut up once I show I can handle myself well in PVP situations. What does drive me crazy is the teens who just won't stop spamming me for a date. How hard is it to get through your head that a female toon does not in any way mean the player on the other side is a girl?!? And no, this is not like in real life because in real life you can actually size up someone's gender and whether or not they may be interested in you. But then again, I personally think constantly flirting or looking to pick people up in game is kinda pathetic in the first place.
PS - I too had a comment about how I'm uncomfortable with people who roleplay transgendered toons, so perhaps I should qualify. If someone is truly transgendered, I'm wouldn't have a problem. Unfortunately, I've ran into 1-2 jerks in Guild Wars matches who like to be extremely vulgar about all the perverted sex acts their shemale will do to you when they win the match. Sure it's trash talk, but on a whole new creepy level.
So let me ask this question, if a guy is playing a female toon but not making any advances on anyone else, dancing naked, etc, why do some idiots insist on still hitting on him? Sure, I sometimes get crap from other guildies about having girl alts (my main is invevitably a male) but they usually shut up once I show I can handle myself well in PVP situations. What does drive me crazy is the teens who just won't stop spamming me for a date. How hard is it to get through your head that a female toon does not in any way mean the player on the other side is a girl?!? And no, this is not like in real life because in real life you can actually size up someone's gender and whether or not they may be interested in you. But then again, I personally think constantly flirting or looking to pick people up in game is kinda pathetic in the first place.
Which is why you should play along and soak them for everything they have. You would be amazed at the things I could get from the retards thinking female toon = 14y.o. prostitute. I have made at least enough to buy an epic mount off these idiots before I canceled WoW. There are too many dumb people in the world looking to exploit young women.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
But why Bettina the Warrior Queen? Why is that a character you are intrested in developing? You could just as easily be Burt the Warrior King. Why Bettina, we can all do it. We can all play that role, but why would you want to?
Of all the roles available for you to chose, why chose the sexually ambiguous one? You know you are going to be interacting with other males. You know what this role involves, when does this become fun. If you role player you are just going to end up chatting up other blokes. Everybody knows this will happen right from the outset. I will never be able to empathise with this being fun. Now if you are gay and get off on chatting up other blokes, I can see where you are coming from. If that little bit of roleplay sexual friction is doing it for you, I see why. But that's pretty creepy. Why not just roleplay Burt the Warrior Queen. You can still chat up all the fella's. We're all liberal folk. We don't mind. For the non roleplayers I think the element of deceit is the major discomfort. For the roleplayers, that's not a role I am comfortable playing with you. I don't want to act out being the man to your woman. Sorry but I have other preferences. It's an area of roleplay that I consider a personal taboo.
Why would a female role be any less fun than a male role? I don't delve into my characters' sex lives, or engage in cybersex, so I'm not trying to deceive anybody. I'm simply playing a female character - if anyone asks for my gender, I tell them. It's no different than a writer including female characters in his works. If anyone is being deceitful, it's the players trying to convince themselves that female characters are played by female players, and that they can have some sort of romantic encounter with those players through the game.
They're pixels. Stop trying to have sex with them.
"Burt the Warrior Queen" doesn't sound like a bad idea, though. I might have to give that one a try.
Frankly, I prefer to play as my own gender, just because I enjoy immersion, like the player character is an alter ego of me, but I don't see any point in getting all worked up because some guy wants to play a female character. Yeah, I'm sure some are just perverts, but that doesn't mean that any guy who wants to make a female avatar is.
Well I've only ever played FFXI, but I played as a female character and I'm a guy. Saying that though, I didn't have a choice of gender. I played as a Mithra (a cat like humanoid) and they only came in female. Yeah, I could have chosen another race and went for a guy, but I wanted the Mithra for their Dexterity and Agility bonuses to suit me playing as a Thief, Ranger, and Ninja job classes.
Anyway, I guess the main point is that it didn't really bother me at all. Heck, I even had fun.
I probably would be nicer to female avatars if my girlfriend allowed me to play MMOs jk lol! I don't really see why anyone should be treated differently. Equality for all species, races, sexes, nationalities, etc :-P
Gender doesn't matter when helping out players but your attitude certainly does. Anyways, I always make a male character and usually the ugliest monster race with huge fangs because I would like to avoid any confusion. The last thing I would want is to play a good looking male/female character and have strangers hitting on me while trying to play. Yes, that includes females because they can be just as annoying.
I think this is a really interesting topic but the answer is all around us.
I think you would find an MMO population would respond to gender in exactly the same way a real life population does.
It really raises another excellent discussion topic which is really how different we act in an MMO compared to our true selves when you strip away the "fantasy" theme imposed by the game. Hardly at all if you ask me.
So how much does gender matter, about as much as it matters in real life. Some care, some don't and some just lie to themselves ;-)
Would I offer items to female players over male player, no I make an effort to be fair in this kind of thing. If I had an item I would open it too my guild and suggest two players roll for it if more than one person wanted it.
would I be more likely to answer a female cry for help over a male. Yes probably because most female gamers are less vocal than male players so when they are taking the time to ask for help they genuinely need it. Having said that I would be more likely to answer any gender's cry for help when it is asked for politely :-)
Unfortunately as MMO's have become popular MMO sterotypes have come to fruition and female gamers being largely in the minority they tend to be treated favorably. Most male players are also less likely to offend their female counter parts by refusing to help.
I think a true female gamer was a novelty for a while but as time has gone on the MMO populations have wisened to those male players taking advantage of a male gamers perception of a female avatar. Plus more and more women are getting in to gaming, more gamers the merrier!
At least in real life when you see a female you can be 99.9% sure it is indeed a female. It just shows you how much we rely on visual cues to identify gender. In an MMO though knowing a female avatar can indeed be played by a male you have to rely on other cues to identify them.
Honestly I wonder why either gender needs to cross the gender gap in an MMO. I've heard the arguments of females saying they don't like all the attention they get playing a female. Is this any different to the attention you would get if you were put in a stadium full of guys? Perhaps if we all got back to playing our gender then this would not be an issue and these days most MMO's equip a player with tools to control how they are contacted and by whom.
Originally posted by baff It's your life mate. If you can see no advantage or take no joy in making the effort to please other people, I truly do believe that is your loss.
Of course I don't try to please people. Do you try to please others at your home like the electrician or the plumber when something breaks? Of course not, you paid them, and you get out of the way. Do you try to please the produce clerk at the grocer? Of course not, you get what you need, or ask him/her for help since they get paid by the revenues in result of your purchases and that of other customers. No pleasing required. Both cases, you may argue they're trying to please you, but in reality it's a trader situation. They have skills you don't have or products you don't have, so you trade with whatever you have that they want. No pleasing, no altruism, no bending over backwards, just two or more folks getting together to act in benevolence toward each other to better their respective situations.
What you seem to fail to grasp is that I, as a transgendered person owe no one anything for my life. Not even parents, since they choose to have me, not the other way around. When you talk about pleasing others, you're really stating that you want folks like me not to exist (not literally, just that you might prefer me to go away or be somewhere else), in that I don't make folks comfortable, so it seems to you that it's not acceptable. Many folks make me uncomfortable like bigots and the willfully ignorant, but I don't make it may business to force them to be otherwise if they are not forcing me to be otherwise. When we act in this manner, no pleasing is required. And when we act in trade, again, no pleasing is required. No altruism is ever required of any morally good transaction. Altruism or pleasing is only required of morally evil transaction.
What goes around comes around. Make no effort with people, and they won't make any with you. Not to mention the sheer karmic reward to be found from trying to please people.
What utter New Age rubbish!
1) You confuse reciprocation for karma, there is no karma, you don't get more than you put in with a transaction.
2) There's no cosmic bean counter keeping track of it, otherwise politicians would have gotten their well deserved rewards or justice many times over, as an example.
It's not for me to tell you how to live your life, or to judge the things you do. It does sound rather miserable though. I do feel sorry for you. I don't feel you are doing anything wrong, just missing out on some of the simple pleasures in life.
Because I don't obey the whims of others in regards to how I live my life? Noticed I bolded the statement my life since no one owns my life nor can anyone own the life of another. And that's very important because if it were otherwise, then many of us would be slaves to others very easily so by brute force. And that's a thought that is terrible in anyone's mind, to be honest.
I honestly like the way ragnarok online did it. You are male? You play a male char. It was done through verification of credit card owner. Which I thought was brilliant. I think gender matter in some aspect becuase alot of people use it to thier advantage to get stuff from others or "play" them. Which I find freaking wrong on so many levels.
In any case, just my view on it
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Originally posted by baff But why Bettina the Warrior Queen?Why is that a character you are intrested in developing? You could just as easily be Burt the Warrior King. Why Bettina, we can all do it. We can all play that role, but why would you want to?
Because they want to. Ever asked an actor or actress what they wanted to play a villain? Because it's fun! Sometimes emoting differently than our usual manner is a part of growing as a human. Like when Kevin Spacey takes different kinds of villains or heroes, or even non-heroic roles, he emotes very differently in each. Compare his role as Prot in K-PAX and then his role as Lex Luthor in Superman Returns. Two very different characters, with different motivations and goals, but it was one man with one life's worth of experience to play them and do so in a convincing manner (for both).
If that little bit of roleplay sexual friction is doing it for you, I see why. But that's pretty creepy. Why not just roleplay Burt the Warrior Queen. You can still chat up all the fella's. We're all liberal folk. We don't mind.
Then please, stay far away from Shangrila MUX and other tinySex based MU*'s as you will find yourself inconvenienced in the fact that many male players will play female or ambiguously gendered characters. And then your gay comment. Dude, gay men want men, not women. Please stop with the ignorant responses, okay?
[quoteFor the non roleplayers I think the element of deceit is the major discomfort.[/quote]
There is no deceit. No one owes it to tell you if they're gay/straight/transgendered/black/white/christian/atheist/muslim/hindu/jew/tory/labor/republican/democrat/etc in real life. They don't have to tell you why they have to go AFK. They don't have to tell you why they won't be on for the raid that Saturday. They owe you nothing. This complete worship of your own whims or that some folks have to give up privacy to engage in fun games online is insane. Would you want to know the gender/age/politics/ethnicity of a player in a Yahoo chess game while you play? Does it matter to the outcome of the game? Does it even matter to the outcome of any MMO? No, it doesn't. It's time you wake up to that fact and play the fracking game.
For the roleplayers, that's not a role I am comfortable playing with you. I don't want to act out being the man to your woman. Sorry but I have other preferences. It's an area of roleplay that I consider a personal taboo.
Then see your way out of their group or guild. You don't own them nor their characters, nor are you the owner of the game itself. Please just stop even trying to convert people to your whims and grow up.
Originally posted by ArcheusCross Anywho back on subject. I honestly like the way ragnarok online did it. You are male? You play a male char. It was done through verification of credit card owner. Which I thought was brilliant. I think gender matter in some aspect becuase alot of people use it to thier advantage to get stuff from others or "play" them. Which I find freaking wrong on so many levels. In any case, just my view on it
I think that's biased. But oddly, I got to play female despite my male name on my credit card since such cards do not have male or female statuses on them as of yet. And I'm very happy that they don't. That information is legally mine, not theirs.
I honestly like the way ragnarok online did it. You are male? You play a male char. It was done through verification of credit card owner. Which I thought was brilliant. I think gender matter in some aspect becuase alot of people use it to thier advantage to get stuff from others or "play" them. Which I find freaking wrong on so many levels.
In any case, just my view on it
I think that's biased. But oddly, I got to play female despite my male name on my credit card since such cards do not have male or female statuses on them as of yet. And I'm very happy that they don't. That information is legally mine, not theirs.
-- Brede
True it may be biased. But so are some of your statements the last page or so *Shrug* But rest assured if i ever made a mmorpg i probably would still let people choose just for the sake of roleplay. However, I still think that it is wrong for folks to use it to thier advantage to get free stuff.. Or people that arent the sex thier playing trying to do "sexual things" with unknowing players. To me that is wrong. True I don't do that kind of crap online anyway as the real thing is far better. But I can still see how repulsive it could be to others that don't know better finding out.
I like the thought that females play MMOs. After all, the game is supposed to have some real life aspects. I do not automtically give items to female characters in games realizing that some are male players and some are females who don't mind taking advantage of any benefit that may come their way. For me it depends mostly on how much I like the character/person, do they play well, are they fun, do they in turn share or help others. I play to have a good time as most do, while there are always those who just seem to be there to see if they can get someone upset or see how far they can bend the rules.
If gender didn't matter in the game, why are the males wearing armor that may hide everything but their eyes and the female armor, well, shows so much that how can it possibly be armor!! Anyway, I like what females add to the game and even if it is just a female character in a game, I do enjoy the view.
It matters to an extentt... You tend to not get the male egotism from female avatars. ( I tend to like the wacky avatar types more, regardless of gender). So basically, I'm more skeptical and distant towards those wannabe "cool" male avatars...
This is really evident in GuildWars' pvp, where you get teammates cussing at you or calling you a wuss, or whatever, for playing intelligently and running/dodging. (Apparently, it's not "manly" to play smart.)
Comments
It's your life mate. If you can see no advantage or take no joy in making the effort to please other people, I truly do believe that is your loss.
What goes around comes around. Make no effort with people, and they won't make any with you. Not to mention the sheer karmic reward to be found from trying to please people.
It's not for me to tell you how to live your life, or to judge the things you do. It does sound rather miserable though. I do feel sorry for you. I don't feel you are doing anything wrong, just missing out on some of the simple pleasures in life.
Now that you have linked me to that post perhaps you would like to re-read the third line of it. This is the only line that discusses my feelings toward gender-benders.
Any further issues you are reading into it are your own.
Dippy, I can't believe you posted both of those paragraphs back to back. You're first paragraph showed what an open minded person you are when it comes to sexual preference, but your second post seems really naive. There are a lot more female game players then you would imagine. Yes, the majority are still male, but it's evening out quickly and I can easily see a time in the near future where it will either be equal or may even start to lean towards the female side. I'd also have to disagree with you on your comment that many females are only there because of their husbands/boyfriends. I believe it's true that a large number of females play with their husbands/boyfriends, but a lot of the guys I have talked to say their girlfriend/wife is more into the game than they are and for some it was the wife/girlfriend that got the husband/boyfriend involved in the game, not vice versa. There's a feeling in these games that many of the female characters are actually played by guys and that's probably true, but there are also a lot of females playing male and female characters. Sometimes they don't even let the people they play with know this until they are comfortable letting them know because of the stereotyping that is done like your above post.
So what makes me an expert on the subject? Nothing. However a large majority of the time that I play, I either use ventrilo and/or belong to a guild where it's common to give a brief profile of ourselves and possibly even pictures and in my experience, the number of female to male players is approaching 50%. I know several girlfriend/boyfriend couples that play and several husband/wife couples that play. It's possible that my experience is not the norm, but I doubt it and even if it is there are still a lot more female players than your second paragraph suggests. I think you may need to open your mind a bit on that subject.
Gender does not matter to me... I play both sexes in games. I especially like to level female toons just for the free loot I can get.
DAoC and WoW were great for free loot. I would get drive by trades sitting in towns and some of the items were very very nice. I have no problems with exploiting this aspect of MMOs. Female toons can be broken up into 4 groups.
1) Men wanting to stare at a pixel butt to get their rocks off.
2) Men wanting to exploit other men for gear/gold.
3) Women wanting the attention a female toon generates especially when it is know they are really female.
4) Women who enjoy MMOs.
2 and 3 are easy to spot as they are very flirtatious and declare themselves real females without much prompting. They also use manipulation in obvious ways (pouting, flirting, etc).
4 will be much more reserved about actually being female outside a comfortable group/guild because of the kind of attention it attracts.
1 will usually set you straight about them being a guy if asked just to avoid the tells from other guys.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
The same enjoyment I get from playing Grodd the Destroyer, or Zarnak the Wise, or Bettina the Warrior Queen. It's a character. Why does anyone role-play a character who is not themselves? I can play an Orc, or an Elf, or a Wizard, none of which exist in the real world. Playing a female is hardly a stretch.
But why Bettina the Warrior Queen?
Why is that a character you are intrested in developing? You could just as easily be Burt the Warrior King. Why Bettina, we can all do it. We can all play that role, but why would you want to?
Of all the roles available for you to chose, why chose the sexually ambiguous one?
You know you are going to be interacting with other males. You know what this role involves, when does this become fun. If you role player you are just going to end up chatting up other blokes.
Everybody knows this will happen right from the outset. I will never be able to empathise with this being fun.
Now if you are gay and get off on chatting up other blokes, I can see where you are coming from. If that little bit of roleplay sexual friction is doing it for you, I see why. But that's pretty creepy. Why not just roleplay Burt the Warrior Queen. You can still chat up all the fella's. We're all liberal folk. We don't mind.
For the non roleplayers I think the element of deceit is the major discomfort.
For the roleplayers, that's not a role I am comfortable playing with you. I don't want to act out being the man to your woman. Sorry but I have other preferences. It's an area of roleplay that I consider a personal taboo.
I don't believe I am saying any of this no. Any issue you have with this subject is clearly your own.
I think I mention my opinon on gender benders in the third line of my post that you have quoted. Please target your crusade for sexual tolerance elsewhere. I have no intrest in it.
And yes many of the girls I play with do have husbands and boyfriends and guess what, I still like to play with them. I still prefer to play with them. I also play with single girls too. And yes I also meet girls in my home, outside my home and everywhere I go. I flirt with girls on the phone, in rush hour traffic, I pull in the supermarket, at the nightclub, at the dentist, in church, at work. Everywhere I go. There has never been any shortage. One in every two people is a girl.
Computer games are by no means the only place I enjoy female contact. I see no reason why my social interactions online should by any different from those offline. Just because a girl is playing a game online doesn't mean she doesn't want to be found attractive by men. It doesn't change anything.
It is basic good manners to demonstrate sexual attraction to members of the opposite sex. Online or off. Married or single. Old or young, beautiful or disfigured. A compliment, a greeting marked with a kiss. It's the little niceties that make all the difference.
"I like playing with guys and gender benders too.", doesn't justify, "If you're the sort who likes to roleplay being a member of the opposite sex, I have to say that you creep me out. It's not such a big issue, but it is very creepy. Really. You get your jollies prick teasing another man? Sticking pins in their ego? The jokes on you.", and "Really. The joke is on you. You are very sad." I suggest you keep such opinions to yourself in the future.
About the male to female online interaction, I agree. Aside from body language, which is only somewhat replicated by emotes, people will generally act the same. I've done some flirting with girls on a game or two before as well. And if you prefer the company of women, I understand that too.
What I don't like is this problem you seem to have with males playing female characters and RPers. You don't have to freak out about some chick you were hitting on turning out to be a guy. If you didn't know at the time, what's the big deal? Maybe that guy likes pretending to be female, maybe he was role playing. It doesn't matter, just don't insult people due to your inability to understand them. Saying, "Really. The Joke is on you. You are very sad." is a little harsh, don't you think?
You might have a good point. I regret that second paragraph. I've met a fair amount of girls that like gaming, even a few in person. However, I honestly think it's more like 1 female for every 100 males (complete guess), but I admit I could very well be way off. The fact is I really don't know. I've never even seen any statistics on the subject. Still, whatever I may think, I'd love to see more girl-gamers.
So let me ask this question, if a guy is playing a female toon but not making any advances on anyone else, dancing naked, etc, why do some idiots insist on still hitting on him?
Sure, I sometimes get crap from other guildies about having girl alts (my main is invevitably a male) but they usually shut up once I show I can handle myself well in PVP situations. What does drive me crazy is the teens who just won't stop spamming me for a date. How hard is it to get through your head that a female toon does not in any way mean the player on the other side is a girl?!? And no, this is not like in real life because in real life you can actually size up someone's gender and whether or not they may be interested in you. But then again, I personally think constantly flirting or looking to pick people up in game is kinda pathetic in the first place.
PS - I too had a comment about how I'm uncomfortable with people who roleplay transgendered toons, so perhaps I should qualify. If someone is truly transgendered, I'm wouldn't have a problem. Unfortunately, I've ran into 1-2 jerks in Guild Wars matches who like to be extremely vulgar about all the perverted sex acts their shemale will do to you when they win the match. Sure it's trash talk, but on a whole new creepy level.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Which is why you should play along and soak them for everything they have. You would be amazed at the things I could get from the retards thinking female toon = 14y.o. prostitute. I have made at least enough to buy an epic mount off these idiots before I canceled WoW. There are too many dumb people in the world looking to exploit young women.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Why would a female role be any less fun than a male role? I don't delve into my characters' sex lives, or engage in cybersex, so I'm not trying to deceive anybody. I'm simply playing a female character - if anyone asks for my gender, I tell them. It's no different than a writer including female characters in his works. If anyone is being deceitful, it's the players trying to convince themselves that female characters are played by female players, and that they can have some sort of romantic encounter with those players through the game.
They're pixels. Stop trying to have sex with them.
"Burt the Warrior Queen" doesn't sound like a bad idea, though. I might have to give that one a try.
Frankly, I prefer to play as my own gender, just because I enjoy immersion, like the player character is an alter ego of me, but I don't see any point in getting all worked up because some guy wants to play a female character. Yeah, I'm sure some are just perverts, but that doesn't mean that any guy who wants to make a female avatar is.
Well I've only ever played FFXI, but I played as a female character and I'm a guy. Saying that though, I didn't have a choice of gender. I played as a Mithra (a cat like humanoid) and they only came in female. Yeah, I could have chosen another race and went for a guy, but I wanted the Mithra for their Dexterity and Agility bonuses to suit me playing as a Thief, Ranger, and Ninja job classes.
Anyway, I guess the main point is that it didn't really bother me at all. Heck, I even had fun.
I probably would be nicer to female avatars if my girlfriend allowed me to play MMOs
jk lol! I don't really see why anyone should be treated differently. Equality for all species, races, sexes, nationalities, etc :-P
John
(The new resident madman)
Gender doesn't matter when helping out players but your attitude certainly does. Anyways, I always make a male character and usually the ugliest monster race with huge fangs because I would like to avoid any confusion. The last thing I would want is to play a good looking male/female character and have strangers hitting on me while trying to play. Yes, that includes females because they can be just as annoying.
I think this is a really interesting topic but the answer is all around us.
I think you would find an MMO population would respond to gender in exactly the same way a real life population does.
It really raises another excellent discussion topic which is really how different we act in an MMO compared to our true selves when you strip away the "fantasy" theme imposed by the game. Hardly at all if you ask me.
So how much does gender matter, about as much as it matters in real life. Some care, some don't and some just lie to themselves ;-)
Would I offer items to female players over male player, no I make an effort to be fair in this kind of thing. If I had an item I would open it too my guild and suggest two players roll for it if more than one person wanted it.
would I be more likely to answer a female cry for help over a male. Yes probably because most female gamers are less vocal than male players so when they are taking the time to ask for help they genuinely need it. Having said that I would be more likely to answer any gender's cry for help when it is asked for politely :-)
Unfortunately as MMO's have become popular MMO sterotypes have come to fruition and female gamers being largely in the minority they tend to be treated favorably. Most male players are also less likely to offend their female counter parts by refusing to help.
I think a true female gamer was a novelty for a while but as time has gone on the MMO populations have wisened to those male players taking advantage of a male gamers perception of a female avatar. Plus more and more women are getting in to gaming, more gamers the merrier!
At least in real life when you see a female you can be 99.9% sure it is indeed a female. It just shows you how much we rely on visual cues to identify gender. In an MMO though knowing a female avatar can indeed be played by a male you have to rely on other cues to identify them.
Honestly I wonder why either gender needs to cross the gender gap in an MMO. I've heard the arguments of females saying they don't like all the attention they get playing a female. Is this any different to the attention you would get if you were put in a stadium full of guys? Perhaps if we all got back to playing our gender then this would not be an issue and these days most MMO's equip a player with tools to control how they are contacted and by whom.
Of course I don't try to please people. Do you try to please others at your home like the electrician or the plumber when something breaks? Of course not, you paid them, and you get out of the way. Do you try to please the produce clerk at the grocer? Of course not, you get what you need, or ask him/her for help since they get paid by the revenues in result of your purchases and that of other customers. No pleasing required. Both cases, you may argue they're trying to please you, but in reality it's a trader situation. They have skills you don't have or products you don't have, so you trade with whatever you have that they want. No pleasing, no altruism, no bending over backwards, just two or more folks getting together to act in benevolence toward each other to better their respective situations.
What you seem to fail to grasp is that I, as a transgendered person owe no one anything for my life. Not even parents, since they choose to have me, not the other way around. When you talk about pleasing others, you're really stating that you want folks like me not to exist (not literally, just that you might prefer me to go away or be somewhere else), in that I don't make folks comfortable, so it seems to you that it's not acceptable. Many folks make me uncomfortable like bigots and the willfully ignorant, but I don't make it may business to force them to be otherwise if they are not forcing me to be otherwise. When we act in this manner, no pleasing is required. And when we act in trade, again, no pleasing is required. No altruism is ever required of any morally good transaction. Altruism or pleasing is only required of morally evil transaction.
What utter New Age rubbish!
1) You confuse reciprocation for karma, there is no karma, you don't get more than you put in with a transaction.
2) There's no cosmic bean counter keeping track of it, otherwise politicians would have gotten their well deserved rewards or justice many times over, as an example.
Because I don't obey the whims of others in regards to how I live my life? Noticed I bolded the statement my life since no one owns my life nor can anyone own the life of another. And that's very important because if it were otherwise, then many of us would be slaves to others very easily so by brute force. And that's a thought that is terrible in anyone's mind, to be honest.
-- Brede
Anywho back on subject.
I honestly like the way ragnarok online did it. You are male? You play a male char. It was done through verification of credit card owner. Which I thought was brilliant. I think gender matter in some aspect becuase alot of people use it to thier advantage to get stuff from others or "play" them. Which I find freaking wrong on so many levels.
In any case, just my view on it
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Then please, stay far away from Shangrila MUX and other tinySex based MU*'s as you will find yourself inconvenienced in the fact that many male players will play female or ambiguously gendered characters. And then your gay comment. Dude, gay men want men, not women. Please stop with the ignorant responses, okay?
[quoteFor the non roleplayers I think the element of deceit is the major discomfort.[/quote]
There is no deceit. No one owes it to tell you if they're gay/straight/transgendered/black/white/christian/atheist/muslim/hindu/jew/tory/labor/republican/democrat/etc in real life. They don't have to tell you why they have to go AFK. They don't have to tell you why they won't be on for the raid that Saturday. They owe you nothing. This complete worship of your own whims or that some folks have to give up privacy to engage in fun games online is insane. Would you want to know the gender/age/politics/ethnicity of a player in a Yahoo chess game while you play? Does it matter to the outcome of the game? Does it even matter to the outcome of any MMO? No, it doesn't. It's time you wake up to that fact and play the fracking game.
Then see your way out of their group or guild. You don't own them nor their characters, nor are you the owner of the game itself. Please just stop even trying to convert people to your whims and grow up.
-- Brede
I think that's biased. But oddly, I got to play female despite my male name on my credit card since such cards do not have male or female statuses on them as of yet. And I'm very happy that they don't. That information is legally mine, not theirs.
-- Brede
I think that's biased. But oddly, I got to play female despite my male name on my credit card since such cards do not have male or female statuses on them as of yet. And I'm very happy that they don't. That information is legally mine, not theirs.
-- Brede
True it may be biased. But so are some of your statements the last page or so *Shrug* But rest assured if i ever made a mmorpg i probably would still let people choose just for the sake of roleplay. However, I still think that it is wrong for folks to use it to thier advantage to get free stuff.. Or people that arent the sex thier playing trying to do "sexual things" with unknowing players. To me that is wrong. True I don't do that kind of crap online anyway as the real thing is far better. But I can still see how repulsive it could be to others that don't know better finding out.
After all, mmos are social games are they not? http://uk.gamespot.com/news/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=25851054
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
I like the thought that females play MMOs. After all, the game is supposed to have some real life aspects. I do not automtically give items to female characters in games realizing that some are male players and some are females who don't mind taking advantage of any benefit that may come their way. For me it depends mostly on how much I like the character/person, do they play well, are they fun, do they in turn share or help others. I play to have a good time as most do, while there are always those who just seem to be there to see if they can get someone upset or see how far they can bend the rules.
If gender didn't matter in the game, why are the males wearing armor that may hide everything but their eyes and the female armor, well, shows so much that how can it possibly be armor!!
Anyway, I like what females add to the game and even if it is just a female character in a game, I do enjoy the view.
Depends entirely on the fact if the person is liked by myself or not.
A annoying person, no matter the gender, will get nothing but cold stares from me.
Gamer by nature,
poet by heart.
It matters to an extentt... You tend to not get the male egotism from female avatars. ( I tend to like the wacky avatar types more, regardless of gender). So basically, I'm more skeptical and distant towards those wannabe "cool" male avatars...
This is really evident in GuildWars' pvp, where you get teammates cussing at you or calling you a wuss, or whatever, for playing intelligently and running/dodging. (Apparently, it's not "manly" to play smart.)