I wasn't singling you Archeus Cross. My apologies if it appeared I was directing it to solely you. I was merely using your last post for a general statement to the crowd.
Ah no problem mate Sorry for the misunderstanding then. Guess some of the fanbois of late are getting me a bit flustered. Its all good though.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
I hear you on that one Arc, I'm sick of idiots who insult the vets including me for hating SOE too, I don't care what they think too, I'm just going to keep on ignoring them and post what I please, this is the internet, literally the only place where free speech actually exists, no one has any damn right at all to insult us for saying the facts, if it weren't for us, people would still be believing the rubbish and lies that SOE constantly throw at people to this day, though sadly it seems there are a few stubborn ones out there who think they're better than everyone else, but that's not my problem, I'll continue my boycott of any company that I think is not up to my standards, I've even moved onto Blizzard now, after what happened with WoW I just won't touch any of their games anymore, Starcraft 2 looks the least bit inviting to me anyway.
The bigger problem here is that some of the wanna-be vets seem to not be able to handle the truth as we continue to be insulted as we who like the game are sad or idiots as some of you state it, if some of the "VETS" truly tried to be honst and not misleading we could have normal discussion without both sides insulting eachother, you see i am man enough to say YES i 2 insult at times people, but most of the disgrunted vets here only care about themself and arn't even mature enough to give in when a mistake is made. Some feel that everything they say is law, Ignorance is the biggest probelm on this forum and unfortunaly we wil continue to see this amount of ignorance as ignorant people seem not to be able to see it themself. Proof, just look at this side of the forums and look at this topic. Again proof of someone only reading what he wants to read without actualy understanding what some people say on this side. Don't get me wrong i do not like it to insult people nor do i like it to be insulted, but if the OP was being honost he would not have made this topic in the first place.
Really its sad that we have people in mmorpg like that, best would be if some of them got a life as honosty everyone can admit that if one is so fedup with SWG and continues to hate SWG then we all know they really need help, and this is not a insult but this is in the best intrest of such person, such person just simply has to look at his life and i bet most of hte haters are so missirible in life itself they found way's to vent even if its a game.
Now if some of you please get your act together or atleast become mature enough to handle things that suck in life, else life wil be very sad for most of you disgrunted vets.
This is something completly different then "get a life post", the problem you see is people twisting words into something it is not, sure it might sound harsh parts of what i said, but getting your act together has for me a totaly different meaning then when someone would say "get a life"
You're right on at least one point Reklaw, the insulting has gone both ways. I prefer respectful dialogue no matter what point of view it comes from. Kind of like what you and i are doing right now via correspondence
Also, I want to try not to generalize here. I think some posts encouraging people to find ways to manage their anger, let go of bitterness etc., maybe talk to somebody about it if things bother you that much are good.
The posts I'm referring too though use language that comes across as belittling and at the same time mentions things like therapy or mental illness.
Also, if some posts suggest that players who enjoy the NGE are mentally ill, well my comments would apply equally to them. I just happened to notice a number of posts recently from different authors that seemed to target vets who didn't like their SOE experience.
One unproductive way to try to win an argument is to attack someone on the other side until they are effectively silenced. Usually though this just leads to an adversarial escalation in conflict (i.e. flame war). I'm highlighting that this has been happening, and that it has apparently taken a new and disturbing form.
My suggestion to folks that use this tactic would be to remember that respectful dialogue is more likely to communicate your point of view effectively. It's not hurtful, and it's more likely to be considered, even by those that initially disagree.
You mention something about the OP and honesty. I'm not sure what you mean there. There was no intentional dishonesty in my original post, but if I have a blind spot, feel free to help me see it.
I have been playing SWG since pre-cu, and still play it today. Now, before one side or the other start bashing me, I would like to state that I am not on either of your sides. I do not agree with the Vets that the game is a complete piece of unsalvagable crap, and I do not agree with the NGE lovers that the game is better than its ever been. I believe a balance needs to be struck between the two extremes, and I have seen a slow progression to this vision. Lately it seems they (SOE) have been gradually bringing back some of the content from the original SWG, that a lot of people have been upset about since the NGE launched. On the other hand, the game is still buggy/laggy as hell at times, and correct me if I'm wrong, but a server merge is desperately in order. So instead of fighting amongst each other, let's all (Vets and NGE players) bombard SOE with the same passion and vigor that we harass each other.
I honestly believe that there are some PAID SOE trolls luring these and other forums. They probably require GreyNoob and some of his cohorts to go out and shill for the NGE and troll the disgruntled vets.
Given that SOE themselves accused several of us (myself among them) of being paid by SOE competitors (this is not true btw) to bash them and the NGE leads me to believe that they do engage in the practice themselves.
the guilty always accuse...... soe has viral marketers on most sites downplaying the damage their stupidity has caused.
Other parts of Sony have been caught having employees pose as bloggers, reviewers, etc, so it's not hard to jump to the conclusion that SOE does this.
Why the desperation shilling?
Simple. SOE is a failing part of a failing company that is fighting for it's life. They haven't had a product success in years, and their prospects for future hits are bleak.
It crossed my mind that a company could have people post on boards, and that these posts could have a specific strategy at times. I hope that's not what this is all about, but who really knows for sure. I sure don't. If any company would use this kind of strategy to try to influence public opinion though, I think there's a good chance that it won't have the desired outcome.
The more you try to deny people's reality, the more likely they are to continue to vocalize it. That's probably another reason people are still talking about this whole NGE thing. One side says, the game was "enhanced" and people who didn't experience it this way will want to make their perpective known. One side will say the NGE was "needed" due to a decline in subscriptions, and the other side will feel compelled to say things like "deception and non-functional products are never needed, destroying player progress won't help your subs etc. etc.
I read tons of spin in one article in Star Wars Insider that said the NGE and the Trials of Obi Wan were one and the same thing. Trials of Obi Wan (really the NGE) was described as having a more "elegant" ground combat style, and readers were encouraged not to listen to "grousing diehards." Instead they were told to try the game for themselves. At the time, I felt compelled to point out that ToOW and the NGE were differenet things, and spell out how they were released. I included all the information about the "bait and switch" of course. When I read that ground combat was more elegant, I felt compelled to point out that I lost a ton of very elegant animations thanks to the NGE, my specials didn't work consistently, my heal healed enemies, and my game had become little more than point my mouse and hold the left button for 3-5 seconds until the target dropped.
Later I read tons of spin in an interview on a game site talking about how the forums were filled with praise for the NGE, and that people were generally happy with the changes. Can you see the pattern that develops from this spin-doctoring? It really just perpetuates a reacitive cycle in which people feel compelled, as eye-witnesses, to set the record straight. So if anyone really does post "spin" on these or any forums. I hope you can see what the actual (not the intended) impact of this is. Perhaps you may want to "go home and rethink your...[approach]"
It costs very little to have employees troll message boards.
IMHO, there are SOE trolls who deliberately disrupt threads here to give the mods any excuse to lock/delete them, like what was done with the class action suit one.
Yet the mods will spend weeks culling flames from the "it's all your fault players" pro-SOE troll thread without locking it.
I used to read a lot of posts that called SWG vets "crybabies" when we expressed frustration over SOE's treatment of its playerbase. Now I'm reading posts from different SOE defenders saying that SWG vets are mentally ill, in need of therapy, or different variations of the same theme. This seems to be a new trend cropping up on these forums, and it's not a welcome one in my view. First of all, telling others that they are mentally ill, is just using slightly bigger words than "crybaby" to insult and try to silence them. It is in my view more offensive though to act as if you're qualified to assess someone's mental health status by reading a post they've made on a game forum. It is possible for people to develop game-playing habits that are detrimental to other, more important aspects of their lives. I'm not dismissing this fact. It doesn't hurt to periodically review your life--time invested in family, work, exercise, education, hobbies (from gardening to videogames) etc.--to ensure that there is a healthy balance. Becoming emotionally invested in online friendships, communities and a sense of accomplishment in a virtual environment, however, are not signs of illness. This kind of investment is fostered by most games, and is one reason they are so appealing. Feeling upset when a company intentionally misleads you and leaves you with a broken service in place of the functional one that was advertised and paid for is also not a sign of illness. In fact it indicates good reality testing. People that try to pathologize this are really uninformed at best, and maliciously manipulative at worst. Using big words doesn't make name-calling accurate or any more mature.
The problem I see is people forget or gloss over the awful things SOE has done. Its not just NGE, dumbing down and simplifying of all their games, or their approach to game development of randomly adding content just for the sake of adding content regardless of whether it helps the game or not. rather its the outright lies. No other company tells as many lies as SOE. They are simply dishonest and they have no qualms about lying to their playerbase. Many businesses engage in a form of fluffery to market their product but lying about quests, content, expansion packs are quite severe and go beyond any professional business practices. I can get opver bad games, mistakes, or poorly designed games but outright lying and decption is a much harder problem to get around.
Maybe I am to blame as well I continue to pay SOE money to play Vanguard. I guess we are all to blame for allowing a company as dishonest as SOE to exist. But I guess we all hope they have changed. I should say they have been much better in Vanguard and maybe they are learning their lesson somewhat although its becoming fairly obvious they hyave learned little in how to design a game as they have made almost zero progress with Vanguard since they took over 4 months ago.
I agree with the OP people need to remember a bit longer. Dishoinest companies like SOE, Farlan and others only exist because we let them and because we turn a blind eye and forget what they have done. I may not agree with all the anti-SOE rants but i respect the posters right to post and I have empathy for those that have suffered because of SOE. While I will never trust them again I hope with all their MMO's failing that they are changing their business practices.
A couple of things....you have to wonder why after all this time, when all should be forgotten as people play the wonderful new game version...GreyPoupon, Fisherman and others come here to make a case for the new SWG. Why does Obraik still hammer away in the vets refuge?
They want to spin and influence you as the OP says.
Why do the long time vets still read this forum?
Just in case, sometime, somehow, the classic servers open up. If that happens, we quit reading and writing here and we go play the game, living happily ever after in a Galaxy Far Far Away as we were meant to do.
As a Day one Vet and a Weaponsmith I found the changes that came with NGE was completely unplayable to me. I Would love to see weaponsmiths to be a viable profession again. The Game boosted that all the items would be created by the players when it came out. I was recently talked back into the game and while I am not completely happy with the changes, I do find the game playable and even more I found that I missed the community that was there. So I reactivated my Accounts. I am under no delusion about a PRE CU server, it will not happen. But the game is playable again, especially if your a PvPer. I from what I see, they are working on making it playable to crafters soon.
If you look at some of my past post, you will see I am not a SOE fanboy, for over a year I would not even see a movie Sony put out, But the game allows you to be in the Star Wars Universe and I am actually having fun again. I can not say that about wow except for the twink 19 battlegrounds.
They certainly bought Fish (paid weekend in Vegas) and he is now their biggest fanboi. He hadn't posted on these forums in a long time until he got back from that trip. Now all we hear is how good the game is getting and how fun it is now... LMAO.
Noticed that myself. I remember fish getting hammered on the O boards for the past year or so by current playerbase. Ettu, Fish? Ettu? :P
"Hurray, finally a game where I can fulfill my lifelong dream of taking emotionally dead women and finding the most financially viable means to exploit their bodies with the ultimate goal of making them Hugh Hefner's personal furniture."
They certainly bought Fish (paid weekend in Vegas) and he is now their biggest fanboi. He hadn't posted on these forums in a long time until he got back from that trip. Now all we hear is how good the game is getting and how fun it is now... LMAO.
Noticed that myself. I remember fish getting hammered on the O boards for the past year or so by current playerbase. Ettu, Fish? Ettu? :P
To be fair to Fishermagi, he has been a SWG fanboi since it was announced Helios had been promoted to the DC Comics MMO. Even though everything that has been done to the game this year was proposed on the OBoards by Helios last November, he has gushed how wonderful Blixtev and Deadmeat are because of it. I guess it is wonderful that they have gone ahead and done things that were going to be done anyway, had the second (or third, I'm not sure which) Lead Designer and Lead Producer of the DC Comics game not quit, due to SOE management's micromanaging the game's development.
OMG OMG EQ has classic servers so why dont we? ETC ETC. So many things circulated during that time frame and I must admit...it was fun letting folks know they need to STFU when they dont know to what they refer.
At one point I suppose I was one of those people. At this point who cares... Even "if" SOE had people post on forums to piss people off.. what is the point? To continue not getting the profit they could.
SOE is a "for profit" company. That doesn't mean they have to be nice or kiss anyones arse. It means they are motivated or SHOULD be motivated by one thing.. profit.
omg classic servers? This shouldn't even be a statement coming from a customer. It should be one coming from an employee.
I remember when Sanya Thomas worked for Mythic.. she said (more or less) "if we open classic servers.. people will play for a week and then go back to their former home."
Of course when it turns out 50% of the subs you manage to retain play on the classic server... The statement does not look intellegent. Of course that is in retrospect.. and there was every chance she could have been right.
Is there really a seriously belief that if they opened a classic server it wouldn't be full? This has nothing to do with the new wave of crying that would start on forums or.. flames etc..
Its has to do with a "for profit" company.. and the reality of IF they did this.
Is there any doubt? Now.. I personally believe they could have at LEAST one server to capacity..which.. they don't currently have on ANY NGE server. This would cause other problems..
But if you want to come on here and rant about veteran players (seems odd to call a game player a vet..) Try looking at it from a business perspective.. and ask... why not...
I personally don't care as a "player" because they don't have the product I want.. so the simple answer is to move on...
But.. I do personally believe they could be making more money on the game... which they never will with the NGE.. regardless of what they add back. Then again if I was working for SOE instead of running my own company... the first thing I would do is fire every employee that seems to do nothing but piss off more customers on my forums... but that's just me again.
*oh and to close this overly long ramble..*
I don't care.. I don't play.. I do log in now and then because a few friends asked me to... I am not asking for a roll back.. blah blah
I'm just saying from my business minded perspective.. I don't see the point of pissing away the profit you could be making (oh and EQ classic? I think the actual reference usually made was how Mythic ran classic daoc servers.. and the majority of their player base.. plays there.. oddly enough... SOE isn't the only company to piss people off with changes).
I am not...nor have I ever been a fan of SWG. I had hopes the NGE would be a good thing....but alas it hasnt been. Have a whopping 23 or something Jedi on my AAP. EQ/EQ2 fan here thank ye kindly.
Now get back to the whining over the game....My enjoyment lvl suffers when you are distracted from carrying on about the mean ole SOE.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
$OE has to say complete BS statements like that to marginalize the thousands of players who openly give them bad PR every single day.
They made their bed, they just don't want to lie in it. Just like Exxon who claims the Valdes wasn't bad for the environment, or the Cheney who claims Iraq was a good idea when he said 8 years prior it was an insanely bad one.
It's all about marginalizing their detractors. I'm suprised $OE hasn't hired Ann Coulter to call us all traitors.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Scuse me? I am not...nor have I ever been a fan of SWG. I had hopes the NGE would be a good thing....but alas it hasnt been. Have a whopping 23 or something Jedi on my AAP. EQ/EQ2 fan here thank ye kindly. Now get back to the whining over the game....My enjoyment lvl suffers when you are distracted from carrying on about the mean ole SOE.
I agree in that I think some take it overboard...
But what are you doing in this forum if you play EQ/EQ2? Obviously you enjoy simple games and a game like SWG-Pre-CU was over your thought process, so why are you here?
Anyone smell a troll?
Might want to go back to leveling up your character dude, if you hurry you might make level 50 so you use that cool new spell.
$OE has to say complete BS statements like that to marginalize the thousands of players who openly give them bad PR every single day.
They made their bed, they just don't want to lie in it. Just like Exxon who claims the Valdes wasn't bad for the environment, or the Cheney who claims Iraq was a good idea when he said 8 years prior it was an insanely bad one.
It's all about marginalizing their detractors. I'm suprised $OE hasn't hired Ann Coulter to call us all traitors.
I don't think Bush/Cheney could screw up a video game as badly as SOE has.
Either way I want the NGE to fail and shut down the servers. I hope every fanboi on here has to find a new piece of crap to play. I used to think "I am glad someone can enjoy the NGE..." but after playing it AGAIN with the trial and seeing how much it STILL sucks, how DEAD the servers are, and how little it has improved, I just want them to be forced to STFU.
Sorry Fanbois, the NGE still sucks and when you come defend the game it shows how mis-informed so many of you can be.
Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. - Yoda
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Scuse me? I am not...nor have I ever been a fan of SWG. I had hopes the NGE would be a good thing....but alas it hasnt been. Have a whopping 23 or something Jedi on my AAP. EQ/EQ2 fan here thank ye kindly. Now get back to the whining over the game....My enjoyment lvl suffers when you are distracted from carrying on about the mean ole SOE.
I agree in that I think some take it overboard...
But what are you doing in this forum if you play EQ/EQ2? Obviously you enjoy simple games and a game like SWG-Pre-CU was over your thought process, so why are you here?
Anyone smell a troll?
Might want to go back to leveling up your character dude, if you hurry you might make level 50 so you use that cool new spell.
Troll eh? Sort of like the "Restraining order waiting to happen" folks around here? Good... glad we got that settled.
I have followed this saga since the NGE was announced. I hoped they would turn it into an EQ themed space game. I dont know what you would call what it turned out to be though heh. EQ simple? I dont recall recursive macroes/unattended play being a part of game design...unlike a certain SWG.
I will give you guys this though....I also hope they can SWG. That way they can design a good game....and not an Uncle Owen sandbox that appeals to a niche crowd. I got a number of yrs worth of new content in EQ. What did you have? Oh thats right...you could redo your character make up. /golf clap
And thanks to whomever whined to get my post removed. The only reason I posted last night was cause it is wrong how you guys have tore up Fisher. He was a very vocal part of your side for a long time. Even in disagreements, he showed others respect. Which is something the posters in here lack.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Scuse me? I am not...nor have I ever been a fan of SWG. I had hopes the NGE would be a good thing....but alas it hasnt been. Have a whopping 23 or something Jedi on my AAP. EQ/EQ2 fan here thank ye kindly. Now get back to the whining over the game....My enjoyment lvl suffers when you are distracted from carrying on about the mean ole SOE.
I agree in that I think some take it overboard...
But what are you doing in this forum if you play EQ/EQ2? Obviously you enjoy simple games and a game like SWG-Pre-CU was over your thought process, so why are you here?
Anyone smell a troll?
Might want to go back to leveling up your character dude, if you hurry you might make level 50 so you use that cool new spell.
Troll eh? Sort of like the "Restraining order waiting to happen" folks around here? Good... glad we got that settled.
I have followed this saga since the NGE was announced. I hoped they would turn it into an EQ themed space game. I dont know what you would call what it turned out to be though heh. EQ simple? I dont recall recursive macroes/unattended play being a part of game design...unlike a certain SWG.
I will give you guys this though....I also hope they can SWG. That way they can design a good game....and not an Uncle Owen sandbox that appeals to a niche crowd. I got a number of yrs worth of new content in EQ. What did you have? Oh thats right...you could redo your character make up. /golf clap
And thanks to whomever whined to get my post removed. The only reason I posted last night was cause it is wrong how you guys have tore up Fisher. He was a very vocal part of your side for a long time. Even in disagreements, he showed others respect. Which is something the posters in here lack.
EverQuest is OK. Not great, but OK. It certainly isn't as innovative as SWG: Pre-CU but it did appeal to a larger number of players who enjoy the linear appeal of simple leveling games. SWG hit the market in 2003 and had good numbers for the time but WoW came in afterwards and blew away everyone.
Now every MMO is a WoW clone. The rest is history, but EQ is no better than any of the rest. If you want a Sci-Fi game then Eve is the best option, probably the ONLY option currently. There are some on the way that sound appealing.
Also, Fish is fine but he is posting in the wrong forum. I'm glad he enjoys giving SOE his money month after month but don't come tell us lies to get us to re-sub when a lot of us just re-subbed using the free veteran trial and can tell you the game hasn't changed much at all, and certainly not to the level that Fish wants us to believe.
It's not his enthusiasm that bugs us, it's being lied to. Pretty simple concept.
That way they can design a good game....and not an Uncle Owen sandbox that appeals to a niche crowd.
In this saturated market of MMO's I think a niche market is vital to the longevity of a game. Offering a distinct and unique game experience will set it apart from everything else thereby creating a solid and loyal playerbase that helps to maintain the online community. This in turn provides a "sense of belonging" in a virtual world that keeps that customer paying month after month.
Being angry at a video game 2 years (and still going) after the fact qualifies you as mentally ill.
<----refers to desk copy of the DSM IV-R. Nope, sorry it's not in there
Angry at a video game? I think most people are angry at a video game service provider. It's different.
Angry that things didn't work out in their video game the way they wanted? No, angry that they were misled and felt ripped off, and then that people told them that it never really happened, or that they should like it. Ya I think that's it. Maybe now a little tiffed about being called mentally ill, on top of being lied to, ripped off, losing accomplishments, losing connections with community, told that it wasn't really that bad, and told to like it. I think that about sums it up lol.
Also, people are going to gripe until SOE comes clean in some way and acknowledges how wrong their actions were. As long as they keep the "spin machine" turned on, people are going to feel compelled to set the record straight. It's an unavoidable cycle.
Having said all of that, I think that the current dev team IS improving game play, and I applaud that. This doesn't address the mess that SOE executive decision makers created though with the NGE. Many people see these as two separate issues. So I hope that the current Dev team keeps working in a positive direction. At the same time though, I think people like Smed still need to own up to how wrong it was to:
mislead people about the direction of the game around the time of the ToOW expansion,
delete sooo many players accomplishments through removal of so many mastered professions, and do this without widely consulting the player community,
delete so much quest accomplishment re. "the village",
get rid of new game content just paid for in the ToOW expansion with the NGE that came out right afterward,
disable in game rewards that came with the paid for expansion "rage of the wookies",
release the NGE when the combat, chat and movement functions were bugged to the point that it was barely playable (sometimes unplayable completely--stuck being unable to move or chat until they fixed a bug that broke both systems),
release the NGE when the basic combat mechanics didn't function (specials not firing, heals healing enemies),
while this was happening, telling people that the game is great, the forums are filled with praise, and the vets are "grousing" for no reason, don't listen to them.
Now, IF SOE would have the integrity it takes to say, "ya we did all that, and it was WRONG, and WE APOLOGIZE. I think a lot of people would stop talking about it. I guess they'd rather have people keep giving them bad P.R. by continually correcting their media spin, than admit that they messed up so royally. I guess that's their choice. As I said though, as long as they try to massage the truth, people are going to feel compelled to tell their story.
Being angry at a video game 2 years (and still going) after the fact qualifies you as mentally ill.
I don't think anyone is mad at SWG. I think we just dislike SOE for the way they treated us. Either way, have anything productive to add, if not troll elsewhere kid.
Other parts of Sony have been caught having employees pose as bloggers, reviewers, etc, so it's not hard to jump to the conclusion that SOE does this.
Now that's interesting and brillant, but rather despicable at the same time.
Can you give examples of where exactly Sony has done this before?
It has been awhile and I will get the spelling wrong. I believe they used this tatic with some of Rob Snider(Makeing copies guy from SnL). I remeber they either caught them doing this with the movie he made were he got body parts from animals. Sorry Ic an not remeber the name of the movie. The thing that I remember though is the name of the critic they qouted was a employee of Sony and he did exsist. he was just onot or ever was a critic and said he had no idea they were useing his name.
I am sorry for the poor spelling and to be honest not sure were to look it up. Not sure it would help here if I could since I never did get the adding links into post down.
Other parts of Sony have been caught having employees pose as bloggers, reviewers, etc, so it's not hard to jump to the conclusion that SOE does this.
Now that's interesting and brillant, but rather despicable at the same time.
Can you give examples of where exactly Sony has done this before?
It has been awhile and I will get the spelling wrong. I believe they used this tatic with some of Rob Snider(Makeing copies guy from SnL). I remeber they either caught them doing this with the movie he made were he got body parts from animals. Sorry Ic an not remeber the name of the movie. The thing that I remember though is the name of the critic they qouted was a employee of Sony and he did exsist. he was just onot or ever was a critic and said he had no idea they were useing his name.
I am sorry for the poor spelling and to be honest not sure were to look it up. Not sure it would help here if I could since I never did get the adding links into post down.
Comments
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
The bigger problem here is that some of the wanna-be vets seem to not be able to handle the truth as we continue to be insulted as we who like the game are sad or idiots as some of you state it, if some of the "VETS" truly tried to be honst and not misleading we could have normal discussion without both sides insulting eachother, you see i am man enough to say YES i 2 insult at times people, but most of the disgrunted vets here only care about themself and arn't even mature enough to give in when a mistake is made. Some feel that everything they say is law, Ignorance is the biggest probelm on this forum and unfortunaly we wil continue to see this amount of ignorance as ignorant people seem not to be able to see it themself. Proof, just look at this side of the forums and look at this topic. Again proof of someone only reading what he wants to read without actualy understanding what some people say on this side. Don't get me wrong i do not like it to insult people nor do i like it to be insulted, but if the OP was being honost he would not have made this topic in the first place.
Really its sad that we have people in mmorpg like that, best would be if some of them got a life as honosty everyone can admit that if one is so fedup with SWG and continues to hate SWG then we all know they really need help, and this is not a insult but this is in the best intrest of such person, such person just simply has to look at his life and i bet most of hte haters are so missirible in life itself they found way's to vent even if its a game.
Now if some of you please get your act together or atleast become mature enough to handle things that suck in life, else life wil be very sad for most of you disgrunted vets.
This is something completly different then "get a life post", the problem you see is people twisting words into something it is not, sure it might sound harsh parts of what i said, but getting your act together has for me a totaly different meaning then when someone would say "get a life"
You're right on at least one point Reklaw, the insulting has gone both ways. I prefer respectful dialogue no matter what point of view it comes from. Kind of like what you and i are doing right now via correspondence
Also, I want to try not to generalize here. I think some posts encouraging people to find ways to manage their anger, let go of bitterness etc., maybe talk to somebody about it if things bother you that much are good.
The posts I'm referring too though use language that comes across as belittling and at the same time mentions things like therapy or mental illness.
Also, if some posts suggest that players who enjoy the NGE are mentally ill, well my comments would apply equally to them. I just happened to notice a number of posts recently from different authors that seemed to target vets who didn't like their SOE experience.
One unproductive way to try to win an argument is to attack someone on the other side until they are effectively silenced. Usually though this just leads to an adversarial escalation in conflict (i.e. flame war). I'm highlighting that this has been happening, and that it has apparently taken a new and disturbing form.
My suggestion to folks that use this tactic would be to remember that respectful dialogue is more likely to communicate your point of view effectively. It's not hurtful, and it's more likely to be considered, even by those that initially disagree.
You mention something about the OP and honesty. I'm not sure what you mean there. There was no intentional dishonesty in my original post, but if I have a blind spot, feel free to help me see it.
That sounds like a good plan
Other parts of Sony have been caught having employees pose as bloggers, reviewers, etc, so it's not hard to jump to the conclusion that SOE does this.
Why the desperation shilling?
Simple. SOE is a failing part of a failing company that is fighting for it's life. They haven't had a product success in years, and their prospects for future hits are bleak.
It crossed my mind that a company could have people post on boards, and that these posts could have a specific strategy at times. I hope that's not what this is all about, but who really knows for sure. I sure don't. If any company would use this kind of strategy to try to influence public opinion though, I think there's a good chance that it won't have the desired outcome.The more you try to deny people's reality, the more likely they are to continue to vocalize it. That's probably another reason people are still talking about this whole NGE thing. One side says, the game was "enhanced" and people who didn't experience it this way will want to make their perpective known. One side will say the NGE was "needed" due to a decline in subscriptions, and the other side will feel compelled to say things like "deception and non-functional products are never needed, destroying player progress won't help your subs etc. etc.
I read tons of spin in one article in Star Wars Insider that said the NGE and the Trials of Obi Wan were one and the same thing. Trials of Obi Wan (really the NGE) was described as having a more "elegant" ground combat style, and readers were encouraged not to listen to "grousing diehards." Instead they were told to try the game for themselves. At the time, I felt compelled to point out that ToOW and the NGE were differenet things, and spell out how they were released. I included all the information about the "bait and switch" of course. When I read that ground combat was more elegant, I felt compelled to point out that I lost a ton of very elegant animations thanks to the NGE, my specials didn't work consistently, my heal healed enemies, and my game had become little more than point my mouse and hold the left button for 3-5 seconds until the target dropped.
Later I read tons of spin in an interview on a game site talking about how the forums were filled with praise for the NGE, and that people were generally happy with the changes. Can you see the pattern that develops from this spin-doctoring? It really just perpetuates a reacitive cycle in which people feel compelled, as eye-witnesses, to set the record straight. So if anyone really does post "spin" on these or any forums. I hope you can see what the actual (not the intended) impact of this is. Perhaps you may want to "go home and rethink your...[approach]"
It costs very little to have employees troll message boards.
IMHO, there are SOE trolls who deliberately disrupt threads here to give the mods any excuse to lock/delete them, like what was done with the class action suit one.
Yet the mods will spend weeks culling flames from the "it's all your fault players" pro-SOE troll thread without locking it.
Maybe I am to blame as well I continue to pay SOE money to play Vanguard. I guess we are all to blame for allowing a company as dishonest as SOE to exist. But I guess we all hope they have changed. I should say they have been much better in Vanguard and maybe they are learning their lesson somewhat although its becoming fairly obvious they hyave learned little in how to design a game as they have made almost zero progress with Vanguard since they took over 4 months ago.
I agree with the OP people need to remember a bit longer. Dishoinest companies like SOE, Farlan and others only exist because we let them and because we turn a blind eye and forget what they have done. I may not agree with all the anti-SOE rants but i respect the posters right to post and I have empathy for those that have suffered because of SOE. While I will never trust them again I hope with all their MMO's failing that they are changing their business practices.
Now that's interesting and brillant, but rather despicable at the same time.
Can you give examples of where exactly Sony has done this before?
A couple of things....you have to wonder why after all this time, when all should be forgotten as people play the wonderful new game version...GreyPoupon, Fisherman and others come here to make a case for the new SWG. Why does Obraik still hammer away in the vets refuge?
They want to spin and influence you as the OP says.
Why do the long time vets still read this forum?
Just in case, sometime, somehow, the classic servers open up.
If that happens, we quit reading and writing here and we go play the game, living happily ever after in a Galaxy Far Far Away as we were meant to do.
As a Day one Vet and a Weaponsmith I found the changes that came with NGE was completely unplayable to me. I Would love to see weaponsmiths to be a viable profession again. The Game boosted that all the items would be created by the players when it came out. I was recently talked back into the game and while I am not completely happy with the changes, I do find the game playable and even more I found that I missed the community that was there. So I reactivated my Accounts. I am under no delusion about a PRE CU server, it will not happen. But the game is playable again, especially if your a PvPer. I from what I see, they are working on making it playable to crafters soon.
If you look at some of my past post, you will see I am not a SOE fanboy, for over a year I would not even see a movie Sony put out, But the game allows you to be in the Star Wars Universe and I am actually having fun again. I can not say that about wow except for the twink 19 battlegrounds.
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"Hurray, finally a game where I can fulfill my lifelong dream of taking emotionally dead women and finding the most financially viable means to exploit their bodies with the ultimate goal of making them Hugh Hefner's personal furniture."
To be fair to Fishermagi, he has been a SWG fanboi since it was announced Helios had been promoted to the DC Comics MMO. Even though everything that has been done to the game this year was proposed on the OBoards by Helios last November, he has gushed how wonderful Blixtev and Deadmeat are because of it. I guess it is wonderful that they have gone ahead and done things that were going to be done anyway, had the second (or third, I'm not sure which) Lead Designer and Lead Producer of the DC Comics game not quit, due to SOE management's micromanaging the game's development.
At one point I suppose I was one of those people. At this point who cares... Even "if" SOE had people post on forums to piss people off.. what is the point? To continue not getting the profit they could.
SOE is a "for profit" company. That doesn't mean they have to be nice or kiss anyones arse. It means they are motivated or SHOULD be motivated by one thing.. profit.
omg classic servers? This shouldn't even be a statement coming from a customer. It should be one coming from an employee.
I remember when Sanya Thomas worked for Mythic.. she said (more or less) "if we open classic servers.. people will play for a week and then go back to their former home."
Of course when it turns out 50% of the subs you manage to retain play on the classic server... The statement does not look intellegent. Of course that is in retrospect.. and there was every chance she could have been right.
Is there really a seriously belief that if they opened a classic server it wouldn't be full? This has nothing to do with the new wave of crying that would start on forums or.. flames etc..
Its has to do with a "for profit" company.. and the reality of IF they did this.
Is there any doubt? Now.. I personally believe they could have at LEAST one server to capacity..which.. they don't currently have on ANY NGE server. This would cause other problems..
But if you want to come on here and rant about veteran players (seems odd to call a game player a vet..) Try looking at it from a business perspective.. and ask... why not...
I personally don't care as a "player" because they don't have the product I want.. so the simple answer is to move on...
But.. I do personally believe they could be making more money on the game... which they never will with the NGE.. regardless of what they add back. Then again if I was working for SOE instead of running my own company... the first thing I would do is fire every employee that seems to do nothing but piss off more customers on my forums... but that's just me again.
*oh and to close this overly long ramble..*
I don't care.. I don't play.. I do log in now and then because a few friends asked me to... I am not asking for a roll back.. blah blah
I'm just saying from my business minded perspective.. I don't see the point of pissing away the profit you could be making (oh and EQ classic? I think the actual reference usually made was how Mythic ran classic daoc servers.. and the majority of their player base.. plays there.. oddly enough... SOE isn't the only company to piss people off with changes).
Scuse me?
I am not...nor have I ever been a fan of SWG. I had hopes the NGE would be a good thing....but alas it hasnt been. Have a whopping 23 or something Jedi on my AAP. EQ/EQ2 fan here thank ye kindly.
Now get back to the whining over the game....My enjoyment lvl suffers when you are distracted from carrying on about the mean ole SOE.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
$OE has to say complete BS statements like that to marginalize the thousands of players who openly give them bad PR every single day.
They made their bed, they just don't want to lie in it. Just like Exxon who claims the Valdes wasn't bad for the environment, or the Cheney who claims Iraq was a good idea when he said 8 years prior it was an insanely bad one.
It's all about marginalizing their detractors. I'm suprised $OE hasn't hired Ann Coulter to call us all traitors.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
But what are you doing in this forum if you play EQ/EQ2? Obviously you enjoy simple games and a game like SWG-Pre-CU was over your thought process, so why are you here?
Anyone smell a troll?
Might want to go back to leveling up your character dude, if you hurry you might make level 50 so you use that cool new spell.
I don't think Bush/Cheney could screw up a video game as badly as SOE has.
Either way I want the NGE to fail and shut down the servers. I hope every fanboi on here has to find a new piece of crap to play. I used to think "I am glad someone can enjoy the NGE..." but after playing it AGAIN with the trial and seeing how much it STILL sucks, how DEAD the servers are, and how little it has improved, I just want them to be forced to STFU.
Sorry Fanbois, the NGE still sucks and when you come defend the game it shows how mis-informed so many of you can be.
Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. - Yoda
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
But what are you doing in this forum if you play EQ/EQ2? Obviously you enjoy simple games and a game like SWG-Pre-CU was over your thought process, so why are you here?
Anyone smell a troll?
Might want to go back to leveling up your character dude, if you hurry you might make level 50 so you use that cool new spell.
Troll eh? Sort of like the "Restraining order waiting to happen" folks around here? Good... glad we got that settled.
I have followed this saga since the NGE was announced. I hoped they would turn it into an EQ themed space game. I dont know what you would call what it turned out to be though heh. EQ simple? I dont recall recursive macroes/unattended play being a part of game design...unlike a certain SWG.
I will give you guys this though....I also hope they can SWG. That way they can design a good game....and not an Uncle Owen sandbox that appeals to a niche crowd. I got a number of yrs worth of new content in EQ. What did you have? Oh thats right...you could redo your character make up. /golf clap
And thanks to whomever whined to get my post removed. The only reason I posted last night was cause it is wrong how you guys have tore up Fisher. He was a very vocal part of your side for a long time. Even in disagreements, he showed others respect. Which is something the posters in here lack.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
But what are you doing in this forum if you play EQ/EQ2? Obviously you enjoy simple games and a game like SWG-Pre-CU was over your thought process, so why are you here?
Anyone smell a troll?
Might want to go back to leveling up your character dude, if you hurry you might make level 50 so you use that cool new spell.
Troll eh? Sort of like the "Restraining order waiting to happen" folks around here? Good... glad we got that settled.
I have followed this saga since the NGE was announced. I hoped they would turn it into an EQ themed space game. I dont know what you would call what it turned out to be though heh. EQ simple? I dont recall recursive macroes/unattended play being a part of game design...unlike a certain SWG.
I will give you guys this though....I also hope they can SWG. That way they can design a good game....and not an Uncle Owen sandbox that appeals to a niche crowd. I got a number of yrs worth of new content in EQ. What did you have? Oh thats right...you could redo your character make up. /golf clap
And thanks to whomever whined to get my post removed. The only reason I posted last night was cause it is wrong how you guys have tore up Fisher. He was a very vocal part of your side for a long time. Even in disagreements, he showed others respect. Which is something the posters in here lack.
EverQuest is OK. Not great, but OK. It certainly isn't as innovative as SWG: Pre-CU but it did appeal to a larger number of players who enjoy the linear appeal of simple leveling games. SWG hit the market in 2003 and had good numbers for the time but WoW came in afterwards and blew away everyone.
Now every MMO is a WoW clone. The rest is history, but EQ is no better than any of the rest. If you want a Sci-Fi game then Eve is the best option, probably the ONLY option currently. There are some on the way that sound appealing.
Also, Fish is fine but he is posting in the wrong forum. I'm glad he enjoys giving SOE his money month after month but don't come tell us lies to get us to re-sub when a lot of us just re-subbed using the free veteran trial and can tell you the game hasn't changed much at all, and certainly not to the level that Fish wants us to believe.
It's not his enthusiasm that bugs us, it's being lied to. Pretty simple concept.
Being angry at a video game 2 years (and still going) after the fact qualifies you as mentally ill.
The "carrot" is the community.
<----refers to desk copy of the DSM IV-R. Nope, sorry it's not in there
Angry at a video game? I think most people are angry at a video game service provider. It's different.
Angry that things didn't work out in their video game the way they wanted? No, angry that they were misled and felt ripped off, and then that people told them that it never really happened, or that they should like it. Ya I think that's it. Maybe now a little tiffed about being called mentally ill, on top of being lied to, ripped off, losing accomplishments, losing connections with community, told that it wasn't really that bad, and told to like it. I think that about sums it up lol.
Also, people are going to gripe until SOE comes clean in some way and acknowledges how wrong their actions were. As long as they keep the "spin machine" turned on, people are going to feel compelled to set the record straight. It's an unavoidable cycle.
Having said all of that, I think that the current dev team IS improving game play, and I applaud that. This doesn't address the mess that SOE executive decision makers created though with the NGE. Many people see these as two separate issues. So I hope that the current Dev team keeps working in a positive direction. At the same time though, I think people like Smed still need to own up to how wrong it was to:
mislead people about the direction of the game around the time of the ToOW expansion,
delete sooo many players accomplishments through removal of so many mastered professions, and do this without widely consulting the player community,
delete so much quest accomplishment re. "the village",
get rid of new game content just paid for in the ToOW expansion with the NGE that came out right afterward,
disable in game rewards that came with the paid for expansion "rage of the wookies",
release the NGE when the combat, chat and movement functions were bugged to the point that it was barely playable (sometimes unplayable completely--stuck being unable to move or chat until they fixed a bug that broke both systems),
release the NGE when the basic combat mechanics didn't function (specials not firing, heals healing enemies),
while this was happening, telling people that the game is great, the forums are filled with praise, and the vets are "grousing" for no reason, don't listen to them.
Now, IF SOE would have the integrity it takes to say, "ya we did all that, and it was WRONG, and WE APOLOGIZE. I think a lot of people would stop talking about it. I guess they'd rather have people keep giving them bad P.R. by continually correcting their media spin, than admit that they messed up so royally. I guess that's their choice. As I said though, as long as they try to massage the truth, people are going to feel compelled to tell their story.
I don't think anyone is mad at SWG. I think we just dislike SOE for the way they treated us. Either way, have anything productive to add, if not troll elsewhere kid.
Now that's interesting and brillant, but rather despicable at the same time.
Can you give examples of where exactly Sony has done this before?
It has been awhile and I will get the spelling wrong. I believe they used this tatic with some of Rob Snider(Makeing copies guy from SnL). I remeber they either caught them doing this with the movie he made were he got body parts from animals. Sorry Ic an not remeber the name of the movie. The thing that I remember though is the name of the critic they qouted was a employee of Sony and he did exsist. he was just onot or ever was a critic and said he had no idea they were useing his name.
I am sorry for the poor spelling and to be honest not sure were to look it up. Not sure it would help here if I could since I never did get the adding links into post down.
Now that's interesting and brillant, but rather despicable at the same time.
Can you give examples of where exactly Sony has done this before?
It has been awhile and I will get the spelling wrong. I believe they used this tatic with some of Rob Snider(Makeing copies guy from SnL). I remeber they either caught them doing this with the movie he made were he got body parts from animals. Sorry Ic an not remeber the name of the movie. The thing that I remember though is the name of the critic they qouted was a employee of Sony and he did exsist. he was just onot or ever was a critic and said he had no idea they were useing his name.
I am sorry for the poor spelling and to be honest not sure were to look it up. Not sure it would help here if I could since I never did get the adding links into post down.
Oh yeah!
I forgot about that.