Originally posted by Jackcolt Sheesh... they oughta make a sticky.
READ THE FAQ I think I've posted following in over 10 threads.
From the FAQ: [*]500 or more simultaneous players in one world. The game must include some form of graphical common area. This distinction means Diablo II is not considered an MMORPG, while Guild Wars is.
So stop deducting whether a game is a mmorpg or not. Hellgate doesn't meet the criteria for being put on this site(AFAIK), therefore it shouldn't be added. End of story!
Wow so you posted this in over 10 threads and you still get it wrong? Maybe you should look into something before you make a final ruling on it.
If THIS, as you state and draw dramatic attention to is your reasons why HG cannot be listed, then your wrong, as it fit's this criteria and the rest.
Hellgate is NOT, let me state that again: NOT like Diablo 1/2. It is not one single bit different from Guild Wars or D&D Online regarding any of this 'criteria'.
It's not a chat interface where people hook up and go into an instance like Diable. The COMMON AREA that you claim a game needs is in Hellgate, they are called stations. JUST LIKE THE CITIES IN GUILD WARS. More than 500 people can be in the game at one time...JUST LIKE GUILD WARS.
Get your facts straight before you go trying to look clever.
By this list of criteria, Hellgate should be in the lineup just like all these other instanced games. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. Please make a note of it.
Jackcolt you should truly inform yourself has well before posting something like that
Hellgate will have thousands of people per servers (if theres more than one that is)
There will be small and big cities, small will create instance when there is more than 20-30 people, big ones will be in the low hundreds.
The definition of persistant is meant for a centralized 24/7 server, not to disqualify heavily instanced games.
Hellgate is NOT Diablo 2, it is persistant, the world will house thousands of people, there is a 24/7 customer support, there are game updates, there is a monthly fee, there is a persistant trading house, there are guilds, there is an economy and theres supposed to also be housing.
If persistant means that heavily instanced mmo can't quality then what happens for mmos that have no single player components but to prevent crowding they decided to instance it a lot? They can't be listed?
Frankly, mmorpg.com needs to reevaluate their criteria as far as what makes a mmorpg. In the old days that 500 player limit may have worked but these days mmo's are just getting smaller and smaller.
Games like EQ offered one world, no instances where if all 1500 or so people on the server wanted to gather in one city together they could. Sure it would have been a complete lag fest but the point is the option was there. These days mmorpgs being pumped out hardly even offer such anymore.
If something like Hellgate is denied access to the site because of the rule above then games like Tabula Rasa need to be removed from the list. That game offers no more than 300 people per world/zone. Oh sure you may log into the same server NAME as 1500 or so other people at any given time but it's impossible for those players to all be in the same world and interact with one another at the same time. So that fails the “500” rule and should make the game no longer a mmorpg as far as this site is concerned right?
Sad how these games have de-evolved over the years. Hardware gets cheaper, bandwidth cost less than it ever did yet the games just get more and more instanced over time. Thank God I enjoy FPS's online. A genre that is still moving forward instead of back.
As long as your all spouting nonsense about what games should and should not be on here, I thought I'd add my 2 cents. If Fury is on this site then there is absolutely no reason why Hellgate London shouldn't be. And if you think that GW's should not be on here, then neither should Fury. There is a far more MMORPG content in GW's than Fury, and just as much in Hellgate. The fact is there is plenty of MMORPG content in all of these games to warrant being on this site. Arguing over the definition of what an MMORPG is only leaves us lacking some good information, such as the lack of Hellgate London on this site. It's silly really, all this means is I leave this site to look for information on certain games elsewhere.
From the FAQ: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think there is a game that needs to be added to your list. How do I submit this? First, please make sure that the game is not already on our list. If you know the name of the game, make sure you sort our list by "Title" (click on the Title column name) and look for it alphabetically. Second, make sure that it completes our definition of a MMORPG:
500 or more simultaneous players in one world.
The game must include some form of graphical common area. This distinction means Diablo II is not considered an MMORPG, while Guild Wars is.
It must be graphical...so no text based MUDs. Persistent characters. Some form of character advancement. It must use a true client/server connection. In other words, no HTML or "web" based games. Games that run in a browser using Java are OK. Five or more screenshots from inside of the game engine itself. A professional web site free of annoying pop-up ads or Spyware programs and access to some kind of support system. Must fully support English. This means the client interface, in-game chat, help system and support website must all be in English.
NOTE: At this time we are no longer adding 2D/Isometric games to our list - we will add these again at a later date once we adapt our list to allow feature filtering. If the game fails to meet any of these criteria, we do not include it on MMORPG.com. Occasionally, we will cover high profile games that have not yet met the screenshot criteria, but they will still not be included in the “Game List”. Ultimately, MMORPG.com reserves the right of final judgment on whether or not a game should or should not be added to our game list. If you know a game that meets all of the criteria listed above, please email it to editor@mmorpg.com. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So stop deducting whether a game is a mmorpg or not. Hellgate doesn't meet the criteria for being put on this site(AFAIK), therefore it shouldn't be added. End of story!
It does meet those requirements. People (more then 500 at a time) meet up in the towns (just like Guildwars) and then enter instanced dungeons. So it is just as much an MMO as Guild Wars or DDO is.
Frankly, mmorpg.com needs to reevaluate their criteria as far as what makes a mmorpg. In the old days that 500 player limit may have worked but these days mmo's are just getting smaller and smaller.
Games like EQ offered one world, no instances where if all 1500 or so people on the server wanted to gather in one city together they could. Sure it would have been a complete lag fest but the point is the option was there. These days mmorpgs being pumped out hardly even offer such anymore.
If something like Hellgate is denied access to the site because of the rule above then games like Tabula Rasa need to be removed from the list. That game offers no more than 300 people per world/zone. Oh sure you may log into the same server NAME as 1500 or so other people at any given time but it's impossible for those players to all be in the same world and interact with one another at the same time. So that fails the “500” rule and should make the game no longer a mmorpg as far as this site is concerned right?
Sad how these games have de-evolved over the years. Hardware gets cheaper, bandwidth cost less than it ever did yet the games just get more and more instanced over time. Thank God I enjoy FPS's online. A genre that is still moving forward instead of back.
500 or more ? this is the case because servers can hold more than this number..
it's not said in the MMORPG.com chart that these 500 must be in the same place (impossible in EQ2 for example, or in lot of mmo wich "instance" when the zone become to crowded).
game doesn't "devolve" because there's a lot more informations to dl/upload but the bandwidth used in the process cannot handle the actual charge if you have to show 200 characters with 200 k poly each and billions colors textures and a lot of facials customizations... the only way to have a seemless world is to take the wow way (low polygon low texture no individual customization).
First of all, I'm not the least interested in Hellgate London. All I'm trying to do is inform people why they aren't adding it. For some unlogical reason people just choose to ignore the FAQ and even the fact mmorpg.com staff already stated it they aren't adding it. Not trying to look smart(What good would that serve on the net?), I'm just tired of reading people who just won't accept the fact they aren't adding it.
So get your facts straight, before you argue for the game to be added.
First of all, I'm not the least interested in Hellgate London. All I'm trying to do is inform people why they aren't adding it. For some unlogical reason people just choose to ignore the FAQ and even the fact mmorpg.com staff already stated it they aren't adding it. Not trying to look smart(What good would that serve on the net?), I'm just tired of reading people who just won't accept the fact they aren't adding it. So get your facts straight, before you argue for the game to be added.
Actually the community manager stated they were reconsidering their decision not to add it.
The fact remains that it meets the requirements to be added to the boards as an MMO.
For anyone considering pre-ordering this game, I thought that I would relate my experience with EA's pre-order. I ordered four days ago, and was notified that I would receive a beta key within one to two days. This is important, as there is only a limited amount of time to play the beta. However, four days later I have not received a key, nor any communication about it. EA support is an absolute nightmare, and ordering online only allows the customer support via the online component, which takes a minimum of 24-48 hours for EA to even reply. I'm not that hard of a customer to please, but this is entirely unacceptable to me given the time constraints of the beta. EA simply failed in all aspects, and I'd recommend anyone considering the pre-order of this game to order anywhere else but EA. If you do choose to order from EA, do NOT expect to receive your beta key anytime in the near future. EA is obviously lying to some extent to line their pocketbooks with our money. I've cancelled my pre-order as a result of this, and will certainly refrain as much as possible from doing any business with them in the future. We all know EA has a bad rep, and here is a further shining example of it.
I hope EA is proud that their incompetence can inspire such negative word of mouth. If any developer from Hellgate London keeps any track of these forums, I'd suggest you do all you can so that you don't lose further customers due to a bad distribution partner.
first off, who orders directly from the company? if i preorder its gonna be from like EB games or Gamestop, since iv never had a problem with it.
Also it sucks that you had a bad experiance, but its just beta(which i personally dont wanna play cause i dont wanna start over) not like your loosing the game.
ALSO for all you READ THE FAQ PEOPLE. its meets the criteria.............shut up.
first off, who orders directly from the company? if i preorder its gonna be from like EB games or Gamestop, since iv never had a problem with it. Also it sucks that you had a bad experiance, but its just beta(which i personally dont wanna play cause i dont wanna start over) not like your loosing the game.
It all depends on the person. Apparently, you are not concerned about such things, so why even bother replying? I pre-ordered specifically to get into the beta to get an idea of the game before hand. This allows me to 1) Tell my close friends whether I recommend the game prior to the purchase date so that they are ready to go guild-wise and not be behind if they have to wait two weeks or so to find out if the game is worth buying. 2) It allows me to better decide if I'm willing to pay the lifetime subscription fee, which is only available until the November 30th, which equates to thirty days of gametime. If I know the basics of the game from beta, I can quickly reach aspects of the game during launch that I was unable to in beta, thus helping me determine if the game is worth the lifetime subscription.
So as you can see, there are reasons why some people here may wish to be notified about this situation. Beyond that, it's really the principle of the matter in that when a company makes a promise they should stick to it. Heck, I'm not even that bummed out if they don't stick to it if they at least communicate with me. I completely understand that sometimes things don't work out as planned. But EA couldn't even take a moment to send me an e-mail letting me know my key would be delayed. If I can save even one person from having to go through the same experience then I'll be happy that I improved the pre-order experience for someone else.
As for who would order directly from the company, you do understand that EA is the publisher of the game, not the developer. They also include an online ordering system comparable to EB or Gamestop, with a download mechanism to save customers from having to go to the store and buy the box. The download component is also nice in that the moment the game is released, I can download immediately. There is next to no difference ordering from EA or from any of the other retailers you mention, except perhaps that now I know that EA is not competent enough to deserve my business.
However,
"ALSO for all you READ THE FAQ PEOPLE. its meets the criteria.............shut up."
i feel your preorder woes. i ordered 3 days ago, and got my key, but now can't login to even download the software because Flagship is using "rolling" beta invites. the beta doesn't end on the 7th though, they're going to push it out to right near release on Oct. 31s, so i'd say it'll probably end the 28th or so (the info saying it doesn't, in fact, end on Oct. 7th is posted on the beta FAQ on the HG:L site). also a few people that i know of are in the same situation as me, in that we can't log in to download the client, use the forums on the official site, or play. some think, and it seems to make sense, that the next beta "push" will be this weekend. so by the time you get your key, you'll probably be able to download the client right away.
either way, what you're saying is valid. pretty much all of the "preorder to get beta access" offers are scams today. i got the preorder pack for Tabula Rasa, and was put on the same restricted time slots as the FilePlanet subscribers (true, they never said it would be unlimited access, but give me a fucking break). additionally, i was unable to use the beta forums on the TR site. about a week or two after i ordered, the beta became open to everyone. i wasn't too upset about this, because i only paid 4.99 for it, and, upon seeing the beta, there's no way i would commit to buying the 49.99 version of that lackluster game, but the point is this: there needs to be a level of transparency when setting up preorder systems for games; i should know exactly what i'm getting, and when i'm getting it. that's rarely the case.
i'm disappointed by the HG:L preorder, and i think everyone who missed the last beta "push" or whatever is too, when several people who ordered on the 18th can already download and play, and others, even those who ordered back in July for fucks sake, can't. p2beta isn't a great idea anyway (and face it, like you, that's why many are buying ahead), but if they're going to do it, they should attempt to at least half ass it, as opposed to quarter assing it. bottom line: i'm pissed off and not satisfied, and a lot of other people are too, not just with this game, but with a lot of others
i feel your preorder woes. i ordered 3 days ago, and got my key, but now can't login to even download the software because Flagship is using "rolling" beta invites. the beta doesn't end on the 7th though, they're going to push it out to right near release on Oct. 31s, so i'd say it'll probably end the 28th or so (the info saying it doesn't, in fact, end on Oct. 7th is posted on the beta FAQ on the HG:L site). also a few people that i know of are in the same situation as me, in that we can't log in to download the client, use the forums on the official site, or play. some think, and it seems to make sense, that the next beta "push" will be this weekend. so by the time you get your key, you'll probably be able to download the client right away.
either way, what you're saying is valid. pretty much all of the "preorder to get beta access" offers are scams today. i got the preorder pack for Tabula Rasa, and was put on the same restricted time slots as the FilePlanet subscribers (true, they never said it would be unlimited access, but give me a fucking break). additionally, i was unable to use the beta forums on the TR site. about a week or two after i ordered, the beta became open to everyone. i wasn't too upset about this, because i only paid 4.99 for it, and, upon seeing the beta, there's no way i would commit to buying the 49.99 version of that lackluster game, but the point is this: there needs to be a level of transparency when setting up preorder systems for games; i should know exactly what i'm getting, and when i'm getting it. that's rarely the case.
i'm disappointed by the HG:L preorder, and i think everyone who missed the last beta "push" or whatever is too, when several people who ordered on the 18th can already download and play, and others, even those who ordered back in July for fucks sake, can't. p2beta isn't a great idea anyway (and face it, like you, that's why many are buying ahead), but if they're going to do it, they should attempt to at least half ass it, as opposed to quarter assing it. bottom line: i'm pissed off and not satisfied, and a lot of other people are too, not just with this game, but with a lot of others
When it comes to getting into betas there are always people who don't get in. There are thousands among thousands of people still trying to get into this beta. Yeah it is a little sad that many won't get into beta but look on the bright side, it is only a month away before we all are able to enjoy a great game.
i feel your preorder woes. i ordered 3 days ago, and got my key, but now can't login to even download the software because Flagship is using "rolling" beta invites. the beta doesn't end on the 7th though, they're going to push it out to right near release on Oct. 31s, so i'd say it'll probably end the 28th or so (the info saying it doesn't, in fact, end on Oct. 7th is posted on the beta FAQ on the HG:L site). also a few people that i know of are in the same situation as me, in that we can't log in to download the client, use the forums on the official site, or play. some think, and it seems to make sense, that the next beta "push" will be this weekend. so by the time you get your key, you'll probably be able to download the client right away.
either way, what you're saying is valid. pretty much all of the "preorder to get beta access" offers are scams today. i got the preorder pack for Tabula Rasa, and was put on the same restricted time slots as the FilePlanet subscribers (true, they never said it would be unlimited access, but give me a fucking break). additionally, i was unable to use the beta forums on the TR site. about a week or two after i ordered, the beta became open to everyone. i wasn't too upset about this, because i only paid 4.99 for it, and, upon seeing the beta, there's no way i would commit to buying the 49.99 version of that lackluster game, but the point is this: there needs to be a level of transparency when setting up preorder systems for games; i should know exactly what i'm getting, and when i'm getting it. that's rarely the case.
i'm disappointed by the HG:L preorder, and i think everyone who missed the last beta "push" or whatever is too, when several people who ordered on the 18th can already download and play, and others, even those who ordered back in July for fucks sake, can't. p2beta isn't a great idea anyway (and face it, like you, that's why many are buying ahead), but if they're going to do it, they should attempt to at least half ass it, as opposed to quarter assing it. bottom line: i'm pissed off and not satisfied, and a lot of other people are too, not just with this game, but with a lot of others
When it comes to getting into betas there are always people who don't get in. There are thousands among thousands of people still trying to get into this beta. Yeah it is a little sad that many won't get into beta but look on the bright side, it is only a month away before we all are able to enjoy a great game.
when the company says on their site (in these words) "we PROMISE everyone will get into beta", it's more than "a little sad", it's corporate fraud. i'm sick of it, and a lot of other people are too. it may very well turn out that everyone who wants to gets in, and it may not. if it's the latter, it's fraud, and people should start expressing their dissatisfaction so that companies don't think they can walk all over us.
you're right, we're not losing anything major, but dude it's just fucked up to have such an imbalanced system. i'll play on release regardless, i can't cancel my preorder at this point, but i'm damn sure gonna complain about them pulling everybodies chain with beta access
i feel your preorder woes. i ordered 3 days ago, and got my key, but now can't login to even download the software because Flagship is using "rolling" beta invites. the beta doesn't end on the 7th though, they're going to push it out to right near release on Oct. 31s, so i'd say it'll probably end the 28th or so (the info saying it doesn't, in fact, end on Oct. 7th is posted on the beta FAQ on the HG:L site). also a few people that i know of are in the same situation as me, in that we can't log in to download the client, use the forums on the official site, or play. some think, and it seems to make sense, that the next beta "push" will be this weekend. so by the time you get your key, you'll probably be able to download the client right away.
either way, what you're saying is valid. pretty much all of the "preorder to get beta access" offers are scams today. i got the preorder pack for Tabula Rasa, and was put on the same restricted time slots as the FilePlanet subscribers (true, they never said it would be unlimited access, but give me a fucking break). additionally, i was unable to use the beta forums on the TR site. about a week or two after i ordered, the beta became open to everyone. i wasn't too upset about this, because i only paid 4.99 for it, and, upon seeing the beta, there's no way i would commit to buying the 49.99 version of that lackluster game, but the point is this: there needs to be a level of transparency when setting up preorder systems for games; i should know exactly what i'm getting, and when i'm getting it. that's rarely the case.
i'm disappointed by the HG:L preorder, and i think everyone who missed the last beta "push" or whatever is too, when several people who ordered on the 18th can already download and play, and others, even those who ordered back in July for fucks sake, can't. p2beta isn't a great idea anyway (and face it, like you, that's why many are buying ahead), but if they're going to do it, they should attempt to at least half ass it, as opposed to quarter assing it. bottom line: i'm pissed off and not satisfied, and a lot of other people are too, not just with this game, but with a lot of others
When it comes to getting into betas there are always people who don't get in. There are thousands among thousands of people still trying to get into this beta. Yeah it is a little sad that many won't get into beta but look on the bright side, it is only a month away before we all are able to enjoy a great game.
when the company says on their site (in these words) "we PROMISE everyone will get into beta", it's more than "a little sad", it's corporate fraud. i'm sick of it, and a lot of other people are too. it may very well turn out that everyone who wants to gets in, and it may not. if it's the latter, it's fraud, and people should start expressing their dissatisfaction so that companies don't think they can walk all over us.
you're right, we're not losing anything major, but dude it's just fucked up to have such an imbalanced system. i'll play on release regardless, i can't cancel my preorder at this point, but i'm damn sure gonna complain about them pulling everybodies chain with beta access
Sure you can cancel now. Not sure what you invested but I would guess $5. If things don't work out don't pay the $50 (guess) retail price. I'm betting you will get in very soon, just be patient. I'm guessing this weekend, Monday at the latest. I think Flagship Studio wants to phase in the game in stages. IMO they don't want to leave out anybody for beta, they are just being cautious.
when the company says on their site (in these words) "we PROMISE everyone will get into beta", it's more than "a little sad", it's corporate fraud. i'm sick of it, and a lot of other people are too. it may very well turn out that everyone who wants to gets in, and it may not. if it's the latter, it's fraud, and people should start expressing their dissatisfaction so that companies don't think they can walk all over us.
you're right, we're not losing anything major, but dude it's just fucked up to have such an imbalanced system. i'll play on release regardless, i can't cancel my preorder at this point, but i'm damn sure gonna complain about them pulling everybodies chain with beta access
I pre ordered this too while thinking i was going to get right into beta cause thats what the ad made it seem like. the email you get after you register states:
Your account starts off in an inactive state, so you won't be able to log on and play immediately. However, we are actively adding more players into the Beta every day.
You will receive an e-mail notification letting you know when you will be able to download, install, and play the game.
I have no fear that I wont get in but they did kinda mislead me.
I vote we kick DDO and GW off the site rather than invite HG:L in!
Am I anti- HG:L? Not at all. I'll probably buy the game eventually. But I am an old-school MMORPG enthusiast that finds the very concept of these mini-MMOs abhorrent. But that's just me, and my vote doesn't count anyway. Obviously these games represent a trend in the gaming industry toward multiplayer games.
These future multiplayer games are going to be "massive"... but are they really MMORPGs? Where will the line be drawn?
I agree with Korusus more than anything here. You have to be able to do more than just chat with several people at once to be an MMORPG. Instanced game play is good and well but it's not massive and it's not much of an alternate world when you can just teleport to another part of the world that no one but a select few have access to. ORPG and MMORPG should have more defining features than a graphical chat room...
The only point of contention for HGL making the list is whether or not you can have 500 people in a Station.
As far as I know, the Stations ARENT instanced at all. This means theoretically you could have 500 people there. Meanwhile DDO and GW town areas are both instanced, so you will NEVER see 500 people in one spot at one time.
The game is more MMO than atleast 2 other games on the list. There's no reason why it shouldn't be on it.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Just to play devil's advocate here, I think the 500 person on one server thing is more then about 500 people meeting in one place. I think what they intended to mean was that 500 or more people must be playing in the same world. For example, in wow, 100 people could be in darkshire, 200 in westfall, and 300 in elewyn forest, meaning 500 people are in the world together, although not explicitly in the same place. Whereas in Hellgate, the only area that people can meet at is the common areas, which are really nothing more then the D2 chat room in graphical form. Everywhere eles in the game is instanced, so 500 people playing in the same world isn't something that will happen in Hellgate.
That being said, the simple fact of the matter is that the game will be a pretty big deal, will draw lots of customers, and is so close to being an MMORPG that a little wiggle room is necesary. But hey, if MMORPG.com doesn't want this audience, then it's no big deal. I'm sure we'll find some other site to discuss that game at. The only real loser here is mmorpg.com, who will lose an audience that they could have advertised to.
Comments
you relise HEllgate london is practicly like guildwars in the sence of its online set up.
Wow so you posted this in over 10 threads and you still get it wrong? Maybe you should look into something before you make a final ruling on it.
If THIS, as you state and draw dramatic attention to is your reasons why HG cannot be listed, then your wrong, as it fit's this criteria and the rest.
Hellgate is NOT, let me state that again: NOT like Diablo 1/2. It is not one single bit different from Guild Wars or D&D Online regarding any of this 'criteria'.
It's not a chat interface where people hook up and go into an instance like Diable. The COMMON AREA that you claim a game needs is in Hellgate, they are called stations. JUST LIKE THE CITIES IN GUILD WARS. More than 500 people can be in the game at one time...JUST LIKE GUILD WARS.
Get your facts straight before you go trying to look clever.
By this list of criteria, Hellgate should be in the lineup just like all these other instanced games. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. Please make a note of it.
Jackcolt you should truly inform yourself has well before posting something like that
Hellgate will have thousands of people per servers (if theres more than one that is)
There will be small and big cities, small will create instance when there is more than 20-30 people, big ones will be in the low hundreds.
The definition of persistant is meant for a centralized 24/7 server, not to disqualify heavily instanced games.
Hellgate is NOT Diablo 2, it is persistant, the world will house thousands of people, there is a 24/7 customer support, there are game updates, there is a monthly fee, there is a persistant trading house, there are guilds, there is an economy and theres supposed to also be housing.
If persistant means that heavily instanced mmo can't quality then what happens for mmos that have no single player components but to prevent crowding they decided to instance it a lot? They can't be listed?
Edit : Beat me to it ext1
After reading http://hellgate.incgamers.com/wiki/index.php/Multiplayer#A_Real_MMORPG.3F I'm still a litle confused as they don't really state what the MMO part really is. I would say if its like GW, then its an MMO. Although, not really my style.
500 or more simultaneous players in one world.
Frankly, mmorpg.com needs to reevaluate their criteria as far as what makes a mmorpg. In the old days that 500 player limit may have worked but these days mmo's are just getting smaller and smaller.
Games like EQ offered one world, no instances where if all 1500 or so people on the server wanted to gather in one city together they could. Sure it would have been a complete lag fest but the point is the option was there. These days mmorpgs being pumped out hardly even offer such anymore.
If something like Hellgate is denied access to the site because of the rule above then games like Tabula Rasa need to be removed from the list. That game offers no more than 300 people per world/zone. Oh sure you may log into the same server NAME as 1500 or so other people at any given time but it's impossible for those players to all be in the same world and interact with one another at the same time. So that fails the “500” rule and should make the game no longer a mmorpg as far as this site is concerned right?
Sad how these games have de-evolved over the years. Hardware gets cheaper, bandwidth cost less than it ever did yet the games just get more and more instanced over time. Thank God I enjoy FPS's online. A genre that is still moving forward instead of back.
As long as your all spouting nonsense about what games should and should not be on here, I thought I'd add my 2 cents. If Fury is on this site then there is absolutely no reason why Hellgate London shouldn't be. And if you think that GW's should not be on here, then neither should Fury. There is a far more MMORPG content in GW's than Fury, and just as much in Hellgate. The fact is there is plenty of MMORPG content in all of these games to warrant being on this site. Arguing over the definition of what an MMORPG is only leaves us lacking some good information, such as the lack of Hellgate London on this site. It's silly really, all this means is I leave this site to look for information on certain games elsewhere.
It does meet those requirements. People (more then 500 at a time) meet up in the towns (just like Guildwars) and then enter instanced dungeons. So it is just as much an MMO as Guild Wars or DDO is.
War Beta Tester
it's not said in the MMORPG.com chart that these 500 must be in the same place (impossible in EQ2 for example, or in lot of mmo wich "instance" when the zone become to crowded).
game doesn't "devolve" because there's a lot more informations to dl/upload but the bandwidth used in the process cannot handle the actual charge if you have to show 200 characters with 200 k poly each and billions colors textures and a lot of facials customizations... the only way to have a seemless world is to take the wow way (low polygon low texture no individual customization).
ext1 and myrdek:
First of all, I'm not the least interested in Hellgate London. All I'm trying to do is inform people why they aren't adding it. For some unlogical reason people just choose to ignore the FAQ and even the fact mmorpg.com staff already stated it they aren't adding it. Not trying to look smart(What good would that serve on the net?), I'm just tired of reading people who just won't accept the fact they aren't adding it.
So get your facts straight, before you argue for the game to be added.
The fact remains that it meets the requirements to be added to the boards as an MMO.
War Beta Tester
For anyone considering pre-ordering this game, I thought that I would relate my experience with EA's pre-order. I ordered four days ago, and was notified that I would receive a beta key within one to two days. This is important, as there is only a limited amount of time to play the beta. However, four days later I have not received a key, nor any communication about it. EA support is an absolute nightmare, and ordering online only allows the customer support via the online component, which takes a minimum of 24-48 hours for EA to even reply. I'm not that hard of a customer to please, but this is entirely unacceptable to me given the time constraints of the beta. EA simply failed in all aspects, and I'd recommend anyone considering the pre-order of this game to order anywhere else but EA. If you do choose to order from EA, do NOT expect to receive your beta key anytime in the near future. EA is obviously lying to some extent to line their pocketbooks with our money. I've cancelled my pre-order as a result of this, and will certainly refrain as much as possible from doing any business with them in the future. We all know EA has a bad rep, and here is a further shining example of it.
I hope EA is proud that their incompetence can inspire such negative word of mouth. If any developer from Hellgate London keeps any track of these forums, I'd suggest you do all you can so that you don't lose further customers due to a bad distribution partner.
first off, who orders directly from the company? if i preorder its gonna be from like EB games or Gamestop, since iv never had a problem with it.
Also it sucks that you had a bad experiance, but its just beta(which i personally dont wanna play cause i dont wanna start over) not like your loosing the game.
ALSO for all you READ THE FAQ PEOPLE. its meets the criteria.............shut up.
It all depends on the person. Apparently, you are not concerned about such things, so why even bother replying? I pre-ordered specifically to get into the beta to get an idea of the game before hand. This allows me to 1) Tell my close friends whether I recommend the game prior to the purchase date so that they are ready to go guild-wise and not be behind if they have to wait two weeks or so to find out if the game is worth buying. 2) It allows me to better decide if I'm willing to pay the lifetime subscription fee, which is only available until the November 30th, which equates to thirty days of gametime. If I know the basics of the game from beta, I can quickly reach aspects of the game during launch that I was unable to in beta, thus helping me determine if the game is worth the lifetime subscription.
So as you can see, there are reasons why some people here may wish to be notified about this situation. Beyond that, it's really the principle of the matter in that when a company makes a promise they should stick to it. Heck, I'm not even that bummed out if they don't stick to it if they at least communicate with me. I completely understand that sometimes things don't work out as planned. But EA couldn't even take a moment to send me an e-mail letting me know my key would be delayed. If I can save even one person from having to go through the same experience then I'll be happy that I improved the pre-order experience for someone else.
As for who would order directly from the company, you do understand that EA is the publisher of the game, not the developer. They also include an online ordering system comparable to EB or Gamestop, with a download mechanism to save customers from having to go to the store and buy the box. The download component is also nice in that the moment the game is released, I can download immediately. There is next to no difference ordering from EA or from any of the other retailers you mention, except perhaps that now I know that EA is not competent enough to deserve my business.
However,
"ALSO for all you READ THE FAQ PEOPLE. its meets the criteria.............shut up."
QFT
I always pre-order from EBGames ordering directly from EA is of no concern too me
i feel your preorder woes. i ordered 3 days ago, and got my key, but now can't login to even download the software because Flagship is using "rolling" beta invites. the beta doesn't end on the 7th though, they're going to push it out to right near release on Oct. 31s, so i'd say it'll probably end the 28th or so (the info saying it doesn't, in fact, end on Oct. 7th is posted on the beta FAQ on the HG:L site). also a few people that i know of are in the same situation as me, in that we can't log in to download the client, use the forums on the official site, or play. some think, and it seems to make sense, that the next beta "push" will be this weekend. so by the time you get your key, you'll probably be able to download the client right away.
either way, what you're saying is valid. pretty much all of the "preorder to get beta access" offers are scams today. i got the preorder pack for Tabula Rasa, and was put on the same restricted time slots as the FilePlanet subscribers (true, they never said it would be unlimited access, but give me a fucking break). additionally, i was unable to use the beta forums on the TR site. about a week or two after i ordered, the beta became open to everyone. i wasn't too upset about this, because i only paid 4.99 for it, and, upon seeing the beta, there's no way i would commit to buying the 49.99 version of that lackluster game, but the point is this: there needs to be a level of transparency when setting up preorder systems for games; i should know exactly what i'm getting, and when i'm getting it. that's rarely the case.
i'm disappointed by the HG:L preorder, and i think everyone who missed the last beta "push" or whatever is too, when several people who ordered on the 18th can already download and play, and others, even those who ordered back in July for fucks sake, can't. p2beta isn't a great idea anyway (and face it, like you, that's why many are buying ahead), but if they're going to do it, they should attempt to at least half ass it, as opposed to quarter assing it. bottom line: i'm pissed off and not satisfied, and a lot of other people are too, not just with this game, but with a lot of others
When it comes to getting into betas there are always people who don't get in. There are thousands among thousands of people still trying to get into this beta. Yeah it is a little sad that many won't get into beta but look on the bright side, it is only a month away before we all are able to enjoy a great game.
When it comes to getting into betas there are always people who don't get in. There are thousands among thousands of people still trying to get into this beta. Yeah it is a little sad that many won't get into beta but look on the bright side, it is only a month away before we all are able to enjoy a great game.
when the company says on their site (in these words) "we PROMISE everyone will get into beta", it's more than "a little sad", it's corporate fraud. i'm sick of it, and a lot of other people are too. it may very well turn out that everyone who wants to gets in, and it may not. if it's the latter, it's fraud, and people should start expressing their dissatisfaction so that companies don't think they can walk all over us.
you're right, we're not losing anything major, but dude it's just fucked up to have such an imbalanced system. i'll play on release regardless, i can't cancel my preorder at this point, but i'm damn sure gonna complain about them pulling everybodies chain with beta access
When it comes to getting into betas there are always people who don't get in. There are thousands among thousands of people still trying to get into this beta. Yeah it is a little sad that many won't get into beta but look on the bright side, it is only a month away before we all are able to enjoy a great game.
when the company says on their site (in these words) "we PROMISE everyone will get into beta", it's more than "a little sad", it's corporate fraud. i'm sick of it, and a lot of other people are too. it may very well turn out that everyone who wants to gets in, and it may not. if it's the latter, it's fraud, and people should start expressing their dissatisfaction so that companies don't think they can walk all over us.
you're right, we're not losing anything major, but dude it's just fucked up to have such an imbalanced system. i'll play on release regardless, i can't cancel my preorder at this point, but i'm damn sure gonna complain about them pulling everybodies chain with beta access
Sure you can cancel now. Not sure what you invested but I would guess $5. If things don't work out don't pay the $50 (guess) retail price. I'm betting you will get in very soon, just be patient. I'm guessing this weekend, Monday at the latest. I think Flagship Studio wants to phase in the game in stages. IMO they don't want to leave out anybody for beta, they are just being cautious.
I pre ordered this too while thinking i was going to get right into beta cause thats what the ad made it seem like. the email you get after you register states:
I have no fear that I wont get in but they did kinda mislead me.I vote we kick DDO and GW off the site rather than invite HG:L in!
Am I anti- HG:L? Not at all. I'll probably buy the game eventually. But I am an old-school MMORPG enthusiast that finds the very concept of these mini-MMOs abhorrent. But that's just me, and my vote doesn't count anyway. Obviously these games represent a trend in the gaming industry toward multiplayer games.
These future multiplayer games are going to be "massive"... but are they really MMORPGs? Where will the line be drawn?
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Life sucks, buy a helmet.
I agree with Korusus more than anything here. You have to be able to do more than just chat with several people at once to be an MMORPG. Instanced game play is good and well but it's not massive and it's not much of an alternate world when you can just teleport to another part of the world that no one but a select few have access to. ORPG and MMORPG should have more defining features than a graphical chat room...
You people are all silly. Its a Role Playing Game (RPG), Its Online (O) and its Massively Multi-player (MM). Nuff said.
The only point of contention for HGL making the list is whether or not you can have 500 people in a Station.
As far as I know, the Stations ARENT instanced at all. This means theoretically you could have 500 people there. Meanwhile DDO and GW town areas are both instanced, so you will NEVER see 500 people in one spot at one time.
The game is more MMO than atleast 2 other games on the list. There's no reason why it shouldn't be on it.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Just to play devil's advocate here, I think the 500 person on one server thing is more then about 500 people meeting in one place. I think what they intended to mean was that 500 or more people must be playing in the same world. For example, in wow, 100 people could be in darkshire, 200 in westfall, and 300 in elewyn forest, meaning 500 people are in the world together, although not explicitly in the same place. Whereas in Hellgate, the only area that people can meet at is the common areas, which are really nothing more then the D2 chat room in graphical form. Everywhere eles in the game is instanced, so 500 people playing in the same world isn't something that will happen in Hellgate.
That being said, the simple fact of the matter is that the game will be a pretty big deal, will draw lots of customers, and is so close to being an MMORPG that a little wiggle room is necesary. But hey, if MMORPG.com doesn't want this audience, then it's no big deal. I'm sure we'll find some other site to discuss that game at. The only real loser here is mmorpg.com, who will lose an audience that they could have advertised to.