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Garriott says: too many beta testers hurt Tabula Rasa
fordiepie
Member Posts: 102
in Tabula Rasa
Article in today's gamasutra-- http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16490
he says, " Marketing can definitely get you on the shelf, and in the first few weeks, get you off the shelf. In the long run, even with the best marketing, if its a bad game, word gets out, and your sales will come to halt."
Had to read it a couple of times, the point he's trying to make is hard to get. Is he saying that sales of RGTR are poor, and beta testers are at fault?
Until you spread your wings, you have no idea how far you can walk.
Comments
He's kinda at fault for making a trash game, imo. Good idea, badly implemented.
|Mortal Online|Gnostaria|
Not at al, and if you'd read further int he post, he explained what he meant, in good ol' black and white, to wit:
[quote]Specifically, “I think the formal marketing did fine,” he replied. "They let people know the game existed, and was coming out. I actually think the biggest mistake was made not by the marketing department, but by the development team. We invited too many people into the beta when the game was still too broken.”
“We burned out some quantity of our beta-testers when the game wasn’t yet fun," he said, adding, "As we’ve begun to sell the game, the people who hadn’t participated in the beta became our fast early-adopters.”[/quote]
In other words, he feels they invited too many people too soon, when the game was still buggy, resulting in lesser sales, from people that got a bad impression.
His point is quite valid.
Oh, and @blueallen1: Try actually reading the referenced post before you bash - you won't come across as such a utter tool if you do, ya nut
I found it highly amusing. I was one of the early testers, and I think it was handled poorly even when there were not alot of testers. We weren't listened to for most everything. I think the shining example was the chaingun. Testers gave dozens of way that would have made it a viable weapon. It was a topic that appeared weekly for months, and alot more once large groups of people started testing. At one point, richard came onto the test server and someone asked what he thought of the chaingun, and how it could be fixed. He quiet simply put it "This is how i envisioned it." And so it stayed the way he wanted, and not the way crowds of hundreds of testers in beta thought it could be of use. Anyone who has used the thing knows what I mean(it was a pile of gunk which filled a potentially useful skill slot where the other skill line got a useful weapon and wasnt forced to continue using rifles/pistols/shotguns as a primary weapon). There were lots of other non listened to issues, but this one, where he literally came out and said "This is how I want it" and so it would be. I think that hurts opinions for beta players a bit.
Another thing that I know my friends who later came into beta saw, was this one odd person. My friends and I are pretty big gamers sometimes getting together to play for 10-15 hours and have fun and hang out. Well one day after pre-orders had started this one guy came into the server, and every 45 minutes he would say "I just got my pre-order, I'm so excited and can't wait to get my bonus items and get to start early!" The guy did this 7 times. We thought that was a bit fishy. Just something i remebered and wanted to note under the idea of a "marketting" thread.
This thread is in no-way meant to feed to power of the drama Llama, but is of my own and possibly shaded by chaos oppinions.
‘look, look, we promise: we know it wasn’t fun two months ago, but we fixed all that. Really, come try it again.’
If the game wasn't fun a mere two months before launch, the amount of beta-testers isn't really the issue.
I think Richard is right to some degree. I played in closed and open beta and the game just was not fun. Not that I think they could have added enough to make it more complete by launch mind you, so I think he is wrong in that respect.
It will appeal to a small segment of players, but it really is a one trick pony with very limited content. I suspect not only were sales bad, but retention is going to be even worse. This is one game I was really hoping would be fit my bill.
Interesting article....I think even Richard fails to understand the real purpose of beta testing. He references the success of GW's friends and family approach, thats because they only invited people who were genuinely interested in 'testing' the game, and not there just to play early and get a head start on everyone.
Real testers understand that having 'fun' really isn't the point of a game, its working out all the issues, which one then assumes will lead to a more enjoyable experience (aka fun)
What Richard's saying is they viewed beta testing as a marketing vehicle, meant to drum up interest in the game, and as such it probably drove away as many folks as it encouraged due to their incorrect perception of the game.
Fact is, most folks shouldn't see the game until its darn near done (I'm one of those, I never play games until open beta) or they'll get a bad taste in their mouth. Takes a certain mind set to play a broken game (for free) with the sole gratification being that "you" helped make the game better.
PotBS seems to be experiencing the same backlash right now, beta testers who were in it a year ago coming to slam the game hard...when many haven't even seen the game much in the past 2 months.
I'm thinking the better approach is to keep betas small and limited, no reason to permit massive entry..save that for free trial accounts after the game launches.
Of course, on that basis, I guess Darkfall's going to be the best game ever made
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Given that the "average" player will play a new MMO for 6-9 months, letting beta players play for free for several months means that they won't play once the game has been released as they have played for the average time for effectivly free.
Now the game is 1 month in you can see all the beta players have left in droves even though they were given an extra 10 days and server population is dropping to low and medium server pop only.
There was calls for another EU server yet now in the last week I am seeing less and less people on there.
Thank god that most of the game is soloable as getting a group is getting more and more trickier at the wrong time of day and I even have had difficulty getting a group in the middle of primetime.
Also it was rushed out, a large amount of the missions were bugged/broken and even after 110 meg of patches there is still a lot of things that are broken and the devs are showing no sign of getting onto it, I have had numerous tickets closed with a "we are aware of this problem" response.
Frankly they have 3 months to get this fixed otherwise Age of Conan will be coming along and I for one will be jumping ship. Even though I love sci-fi, EvE was boring as heck for me, SWG got broken by Sony, Auto Assult dies and now there is this.
That would work, if it was the bugs that were the issue. The problem was never bugs, it was that the core gameplay was dull, repetitive, and ultimately shallow.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
If he got half of the brain I got then he should know that not many ppl are going to play a mmorpg called Tabula Rasa. its his own fault he gave up on Ultima title.
Actually it is. Even here in this forum most the players who sayes negative stuff about Tabula Rasa are ext Beta testers, some haven't even played the release version. So, too many beta tester, when game was too broken is a issue, because it can create bad reputation.
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
A free trial could do wonders for the game if there really has been vast improvements since beta. A similar situation came for me with Guild Wars. Playing it in beta with an old machine, i had no idea how good the game actually was, and almost ignored it. After release i heard so many great things about it, including the addition of some dev team fired from World of Warcraft due to creative differences ( i think Nexon or something like that) that i decided to buy the game and give it another try after getting a new pc, and was shocked to see how much different it really was compared to what i expected.
I had a chance to test TR and while i thought it would do very well and did like the game, i wasn't sure if i wanted to buy it or not. Once again, shortly after release i have a completely new pc, and would love to see the game now. Especially after hearing that the game is much funner than it was in beta, which wasn't much of a problem for me to begin with, but my poor old pc just wasn't up to the challenge at that time. A free trial would probably get most of the testers who aren't playing now, to at least give it another try and see what they think. Being the holiday season and so close to Christmas that i don't have enough money right now to buy every new game that comes out, i find myself being very picky about the games i buy. There are 3 games that i think are very good right now, EQ2 Vanguard and WoW. And i'm more likely to go with those 3 this winter being that i know whichever one of those games i play, i will like it. If i only had a short period of time to see how the game is now, if i had fun there's a very good chance i would buy it.
Hmm interesting he should say this. I played the beta and found the game rather uninspired. It felt like rolling dice and not actually engaging in combat, and I didnt like the predictable monster spawns. Perhaps I would like it better now. Not sure though, can you dodge incoming rounds? Do mob spawns seem more random? Is ammo cheaper?
btw I actually beta tested and submitted scores of bug/stuck/etc reports
Ok, first of all, the game IS fun and they made several changes and improvements.
One thing that bugs me though and that's how he points his finger at the development team. Hell, HIS name is on the freakin' box... its part of the title of the game! If he's going to put his name on the box to help gain brand recognition, he needs to step up to the plate and accept part of the blame through the development process.
I was torn whether to buy this game or not because I think Garriot is an ancient dinosaur in the gaming world and an egomaniac to add to it... this just reinforces my opinion even more.
They do not need to release a free trial for this game. That will just fuel the fire of a community that remain unhappy for the most part.
They need to listen to the players, MAKE a community forum where they can access feedback , and give feedback to the community. Reading player petitions and reviews are not going to solve the bigger problems.
This game turned ALOT of beta testers off when it was released un-polished, or finished. They knew this when they released it. But still went through with it. Why? i have no clue.
I do not see why this is so hard. We all know the game in it's current state offers NOTHING for hardcore members or members that will subscribe for more then 2-3 months.
It's a MMO, not a damn PC shelf-box game. It has to keep people playing. What they are going to do i do not know. No community forums makes it kind of hard to get feedback and or voice your opinion.
I just hope they do not make end-game based on instances and run of the mill boring content. They really need to come up with something, to please the members. From what i've seen and read, the community is not asking for a lot.
I mean hell, i've been in-game for a month playing as a hardcore member (But honestly semi-casual). I am 4 lvls away from having EVERY class to 30. Then what?
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Buying an mmo= 35.99 +14.99 a month.
Playing games for years= fun
Playing SWG from your hotel room on a laptop, via business trip for 10c a minute (3day trip)= not priceless! 1900.oo later! Try explaining that to your wife.
Yes i shot myself for letting SOE cost me that much $ hehe.
RiP- Old SwG.
Actually it is. Even here in this forum most the players who sayes negative stuff about Tabula Rasa are ext Beta testers, some haven't even played the release version. So, too many beta tester, when game was too broken is a issue, because it can create bad reputation.
The fact that he himself acknowledges that the game isn't fun that close to release, is much more of a problem in my opinion.
Hey if they were crushing all your planned games, and you were there through all the turmoil that was Origin/EA at the time you might have walked away too.
So in the beta, combat was: "shoot, shoot, shoot... swap to other gun, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot... reload, shoot, shoot shoot..."
Is it any different now?
Sometimes i get kicked to the ground and die cause it lasts for 12 damn seconds, but nope. No different.
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Buying an mmo= 35.99 +14.99 a month.
Playing games for years= fun
Playing SWG from your hotel room on a laptop, via business trip for 10c a minute (3day trip)= not priceless! 1900.oo later! Try explaining that to your wife.
Yes i shot myself for letting SOE cost me that much $ hehe.
RiP- Old SwG.
I don't know about the brain thing, but RG was/is pretty ....um..unwise not to further a UO title. EA has destroyed what ever hope UO had
No different from any fantasy game really, swing sword, swing sword, cast buff, swing sword.
They were thinking that beta was really an early marketing thing. However, the game had a lot of problems and needed to be beta-tested.
In a real beta test, you pick a few friendly customers (who will tolerate bugs), and get them to help find the problems. If you start with a buggy program, and then invite large numbers of people in order to get early marketing noise, that is a strategic mistake.
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2025: 48 years on the Net.
No different from any fantasy game really, swing sword, swing sword, cast buff, swing sword.
Exactly! "No difference ...."RG made all these claims of being ground-breaking, but really it is nothing different.
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2025: 48 years on the Net.
I wouldn't pay too much mind to the backlash from beta testers. TR is an excellent game, and word of mouth will soon fill the servers up greater than RG or anyone else predicted.
This game has firmly gripped my gonads, and will not let go. I duoed Devils Den instance last night with a ranger, it took over 2 hours and was one of the tougher dungeons/instances I have ever completed. After I was done, I received an incinerator rocket launcher that does even more AOE than before! I had a raging hard-on the entire time, and had a blast!
If any of you reading this are on the fence about TR, and have played SWG in the past and liked it, slap some sense into yourselves and get this ASAP! Certain control points in Palisades are consistently controlled by Bane, and we really do need help in taking them back.
/salute
This is exactly the problem though. Even here, you get mixed reviews. Some people say its the same as it was in beta basically, others say it's great now. If you tested it in beta and weren't impressed enough to go and buy it after release, what's to make you think that it will be better now when so many people say it sucked then and still does. Perhaps some people who love it, would have loved it in beta also.
The fact that they claim it's much better now, but don't give a free trial to prove it, kinda leans me toward the side of not believing them. You would think with all he said about the testers, and claiming things have changed, you would WANT those people to come back and give it another chance, if you are really confident that your game is good. That was the key part of what i was saying, '' IF it really has made vast improvements, a free trial would help '', in that the testers would give it another chance, and IF the game is good they will buy it. I personally would love a chance to check it out again for free, and form my own opinion.
I have said it once and ill say it again, NO ONE wants to pay for another level grind fest which is all TR is! its a shame cause i really had high hopes for the game considering it came from Lord B him self, but oh well guess he is too hollywood now to make anything creative or new!
Too bad RG cant point the finger at him self, its his creation!
Good going there sparky!