lol this Questionable guy is a real piece of work. Reminds me of the old Iraq PR guy. Remember him? He would go on Iraq TV and preach to all the Iraq people of how the Americans are no where in sight even while they were pulling Sadams statue down in the center square. To the very last eh Questionable? They should hire you as their PR guy. Or maybe you are already?.. "As for evidence of there being a game. One can look to the fact a loan 28 million dollar loan was approved by to the aventurine company after being review by lawyers. " haha anyone who truly believes this needs to go have their heads examined. They did not get any cash loan for 28 mill nor is there any documents anywhere supporting that. Nor has Aventurine ever stated that this was true. It's just the fanboys reading way too much into some vague text blurb on the internet about the issuing of convertible bonds. It doesn't say any of those convertible bonds were sold. Putting 27.5 million up in covertible bonds doesn't mean they sold them. The only information provided states that a Law Firm represented someone called Aventurine in the actions of putting up the bonds for purchase. There are no records, transactions or documents stating that they did in fact sell any bonds.
You can read that bond statement all you like, the keyword is "ISSUED" bonds, not "SOLD" bonds. http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release.do?id=800655 There is an example of what they did as I understand it. Aventurine issued 28 mill worth of convertible bonds... but investors have to buy those bonds first.. which later change into shares in the company. And the fact they even did this doesn't bode too well.. because it simply says they need cash for something.. (I thought they had investors?) and since Darkfall is really the only thing they have going.. it's most likely for that reason..
Nice little rant there but perhaps you should realize that issued can be used as a synonym for sold.
Hell it was even clear right here "The convertible bonds will be issued and redeemed at 100% of their principal amount..." So what your saying is since "Issued" doesnt mean sold than their giving away free money? I want be a part of that.
So for those that dont know Aventurine sold 20 million(in euro which was equivalent to $27 million at that time) worth of convertible bonds. For those who don't know what those are their bonds that can be exchanged for stocks or could be redeemed for their principal amount + interest.
As for as forums go, few things are worse than someone who professes that a game is vaporware, all while maintaining a presence on the forums for that very game. You're wasting your time on something you presume doesn't exist, while I waste my time on something that I presume does.
So for those that dont know Aventurine sold 20 million(in euro which was equivalent to $27 million at that time) worth of convertible bonds.
No they did not. They put them up for sale. No where does it say they actually sold any of them.
Sorry to burst you're bubble Questionable. But if you would have had even the slightest commen sense and stopped being a rabid mouth foaming fanboy for 10 seconds you would of realized a long time ago that no bank on the planet would have given Aventurine 28 mill in cash money.
It isn't my word against his. It's fact plain as day. It's just some people choose to live in a dream world.. I guess they have to after following this for 7 straight years.
The convertible bonds will be issued and redeemed at 100% of their principal amount..." So what your saying is since "Issued" doesnt mean sold than their giving away free money? I want be a part of that.
also i see you ignored that ... that means sold to me
whats going to happen when your proven wrong in 2008?
"acting for Aventurine in relation to its issue of a €20 million convertible bond loan with Marfin Bank,"
Take a look at the "its" in that sentance.
the possessive form of itThe book has lost its jacket.
The way I read that sentance tells me that Aventurine issued convertible bonds through Marfin Bank. "Acting for Aventurine in relation to "ITS" (Aventurines) issue of....
your the one that will be hurt cause you think its a pipe dream lol i dont really understand how you see that?
and on the bonds well the defention of the convertible bonds states diffrent they wouldnt have started a price if they didnt get naything they converted the bonds throw the bank this is why you think darkfall is vaporware or a pipe dream cause you can look at all the facts that its there unless there paying employs to make a pipedream then LOL
also on the bonds it never said they put them up for sell is says the bank issued them
not my problem we forums fallers will just move on to the next game if it happens to be a pipe dream
WE ARE WELL PREPARED SO NO LETDOWN WILL HAPPEN
but it seems like if it does come out you will die why is that?
btw zorvan defention of life umm well it seems you dont have one since your (not sure what your trying to do)
but isnt it smart not to even post in the forums if you think such things? cause technilly thats still consider watching it i guess you want it to come out too
"also on the bonds it never said they put them up for sell is says the bank issued them"
you're just reading it how you want to read it..
"acting for Aventurine in relation to its issue of a €20 million convertible bond loan with Marfin Bank,"
Take a look at the "its" in that sentance and "with"
the possessive form of itThe book has lost its jacket.
The way I read that sentance tells me that Aventurine issued convertible bonds through Marfin Bank. "Acting for Aventurine in relation to "ITS" (Aventurines) issue of....
It doesn't say "FROM" Marfin Bank which would mean: (direct source or origin):
It uses "WITH" which indicates: (in some particular relation to)
they wouldnt have even state a price you dont put convertable bonds for sell throough a bank they use the bonds to get money from the bank lol so would you stop ignoring that is what happen
convertable bonds you dont really put up for sell = convertable for money through bank BONDS YOU DO
i have all day guess what i dont see what you trying to prove im just saying most likly theyg ot money form them but your sayiing with 100% certainy that they didnt recieve any money what make smroe sence?
i gave you proof of what it means and you just ignore it and just keep trying to throw yoru false words around btw trolling is another form of keeping the forums active if you just leave darkfall fans alone these forums probly wont have much on them most people waiting for this game on this site are playing other mmos the hardcore fans dont even bother with this site
the more you troll people the more the game gets known thanks for the free advertising
In finance, a bond is a debtsecurity, in which the authorized issuer owes the holders a debt and is obliged to repay the principal and interest (the coupon) at a later date,
holders are the bank
A bond is simply a loan, but in the form of a security, although terminology used is rather different. The issuer is equivalent to the borrower, the bond holder to the lender, and the coupon to the interest. Bonds enable the issuer to finance long-term investments with external funds. Certificates of deposit (CDs) or commercial paper are considered money market instruments.
Bonds are issued by public authorities, credit institutions, companies and supranational institutions in the primary markets. The most common process of issuing bonds is through underwriting. In underwriting, one or more securities firms or banks, forming a syndicate, buy an entire issue of bonds from an issuer and re-sell them to investors.
Bonds are bought and traded mostly by institutions like pension funds, insurance companies and banks
looks like aven doesnt need a bank to put them up for sell the bank bought them from them
"As the name implies, convertible bonds, or converts, give the holder the option to exchange the bond for a predetermined number of shares in the issuing company."
Example
A conversion ratio of 45:1 means one bond (with a $1,000 par value) can be exchanged for 45 shares of stock.
But how does the holder GET those bonds in the first place? They buy them from the issuer. And I see Aventurine as being the issuer here with Marfkin bank acting as the intermediary..
The way I see it is Aventurine put 28 mill worth of convertible bonds up for purchase through Marfin Bank.. Of course I could be wrong.. but I don't think I am.
well it dont really matter they need or needed the moneyso yea ... game is real ,game is actully going to be polished by beta most of the features will be in excpt(If not it will fail and the devs know it so do we) for prestige classes at release seems to be there on a dead line then even hired more Q/A testers to get back on track guess darkfall is true dont you think?
AOC is OVER PRing and ib et it misses its release date again or its going to hurt them bad
kinda funny how forgiving poeple are for there miss dates when darkfall has HAD maybe 2 beta dates missed offcial not sure about the 2005 one but meh
well it dont really matter they need or needed the moneyso yea ... game is real ,game is actully going to be polished by beta most of the features will be in excpt(If not it will fail and the devs know it so do we) for prestige classes at release seems to be there on a dead line then even hired more Q/A testers to get back on track guess darkfall is true dont you think? AOC is OVER PRing and ib et it misses its release date again or its going to hurt them bad kinda funny how forgiving poeple are for there miss dates when darkfall has HAD maybe 2 beta dates missed offcial not sure about the 2005 one but meh
Kudos for your blind faith in this disaster of a game development. But your defense of the definition of a bond still hasn't address the fact that this game has ZERO credibility.
Not one screen shot, announcement of beta(AGAIN) or even a working in game video of an alpha build. Kudos for it being a month to month update but the lack of any information debunking its "vaporware" status STILL hasn't been achieved. BTW this monthly "updates" we're just a recent addition overall with prior "updates" being hit and miss. Keep in mind these updates alone have been going on scince 2001.
OMG look at this... videos, screen shots, class updates... even without the enriched lore backing Warhammer, War is light years ahead of Darkfall and its been in development for alot less time.
To be fair lets look at a game that isn't even rpg but still multiplayer.
Even in a developmental hang up with one part of this game, SC2 is leaps ahead of DF and its only been in development for the last couple years. And the website shines 1000 time better than DF.
Seriously Darkfallers, I can design a better website than Df main page. It looks like it was put together by my little brothers 8th grade computer science class.
Let's just face it Darkfall fan bois , if this game was a solid idea and had a great foundation for play, then a major publisher would have picked up this game SEVEN YEARS AGO. Even if this game miraculously hit a release date within the next 2 years, it will be so far behind the competition and lost so much credibilty, that it will fold on those 2 issues alone.
warhammer is in beta and youtube has a few vids for darkfall ic ant help that darkfall doesnt have there own pr departmeant
plsu go look at dev journal 17 that day there was 2 for the journal and 3 or 4 added to the gallary so yea whats your deal again?
they also have publishers looking at there game 2 and there deciding on witch one is the better one
IF sandboxs werent so not proven to make alot of money because only small companys try them ALSO TO bad BIG company follow there linear pisses of crap CAUSE of WOW that we have bene getting AOC and war are both the same just Aoc is trying to be diffrent
they need to grow some balls
them not PR like crazy doesnt mean crap aventurine paying these devs and testers seem more of a chance the game is still being worked on and is in dev
dev journal are every 2 weeks ... so no point in argueing there
ALSO there a few darkfall vids
A TV show called gameplay aired one from 2006 beta build just last week
and darkfall has over 400 screenshots
I don't know what you want from us but whatever it is your not going to get it. So well your ahead I would give up. There no harm in following a game. but you act like there is please tell me what it is
Kudos for your blind faith in this disaster of a game development. But your defense of the definition of a bond still hasn't address the fact that this game has ZERO credibility. Lets do some comparisons, shall we? This was DF last "update".. http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/2707-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-19-A-Round-Up Not one screen shot, announcement of beta(AGAIN) or even a working in game video of an alpha build. Kudos for it being a month to month update but the lack of any information debunking its "vaporware" status STILL hasn't been achieved. BTW this monthly "updates" we're just a recent addition overall with prior "updates" being hit and miss. Keep in mind these updates alone have been going on scince 2001. This just makes me laugh. since 2001? No its been going on since 2007.
http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/video/ OMG look at this... videos, screen shots, class updates... even without the enriched lore backing Warhammer, War is light years ahead of Darkfall and its been in development for alot less time. Lets compare a game thats in beta and a lightened NDA to a game thats the complete opposite. Make sure the games are at least similar before trying to make a comparison. To be fair lets look at a game that isn't even rpg but still multiplayer. http://www.starcraft2.com/
Even in a developmental hang up with one part of this game, SC2 is leaps ahead of DF and its only been in development for the last couple years. And the website shines 1000 time better than DF. Seriously Darkfallers, I can design a better website than Df main page. It looks like it was put together by my little brothers 8th grade computer science class.
Let's just face it Darkfall fan bois , if this game was a solid idea and had a great foundation for play, then a major publisher would have picked up this game SEVEN YEARS AGO. Even if this game miraculously hit a release date within the next 2 years, it will be so far behind the competition and lost so much credibilty, that it will fold on those 2 issues alone. Perhaps you didnt realize but Aventurine was/is their publisher. I would go more into it but something tells me you won't listen to a word of it.
"acting for Aventurine in relation to its issue of a €20 million convertible bond loan with Marfin Bank," Take a look at the "its" in that sentance.
the possessive form of itThe book has lost its jacket.
The way I read that sentance tells me that Aventurine issued convertible bonds through Marfin Bank. "Acting for Aventurine in relation to "ITS" (Aventurines) issue of....
So unless your saying that the other company is giving 200 million dollars worth of bonds for free than that sentence shows that they were sold. Remember Issued can be a synonym for sold.
Originally posted by stellingMr
No they did not. They put them up for sale. No where does it say they actually sold any of them. Sorry to burst you're bubble Questionable. But if you would have had even the slightest commen sense and stopped being a rabid mouth foaming fanboy for 10 seconds you would of realized a long time ago that no bank on the planet would have given Aventurine 28 mill in cash money.
Do we have to go over what I just said? Issued can be a synonym sold.
Comments
guess they have investor then 2
Nice little rant there but perhaps you should realize that issued can be used as a synonym for sold.
Hell it was even clear right here "The convertible bonds will be issued and redeemed at 100% of their principal amount..." So what your saying is since "Issued" doesnt mean sold than their giving away free money? I want be a part of that.
So for those that dont know Aventurine sold 20 million(in euro which was equivalent to $27 million at that time) worth of convertible bonds. For those who don't know what those are their bonds that can be exchanged for stocks or could be redeemed for their principal amount + interest.
Shadow of Apophis - Council Member
No they did not. They put them up for sale. No where does it say they actually sold any of them.
Sorry to burst you're bubble Questionable. But if you would have had even the slightest commen sense and stopped being a rabid mouth foaming fanboy for 10 seconds you would of realized a long time ago that no bank on the planet would have given Aventurine 28 mill in cash money.
blaa blaa its your word against his btw i dont really care money is money
and commen sence would tell you, you dont have proof either way
It isn't my word against his. It's fact plain as day. It's just some people choose to live in a dream world.. I guess they have to after following this for 7 straight years.
The convertible bonds will be issued and redeemed at 100% of their principal amount..." So what your saying is since "Issued" doesnt mean sold than their giving away free money? I want be a part of that.
also i see you ignored that ... that means sold to me
whats going to happen when your proven wrong in 2008?
hey show some proof and ill believe you and it dont mater bonds are bonds
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/convertiblebond.asp
A bond that can be converted into a predetermined amount of the company's equity at certain times during its life
so what's that supposed to mean? all you're doing is giving a defnition of a bond..
it doesnt have 2 ISSUED bassiccly states it why else would they need a bank for bonds?
ISSUED is the key word means they converted them
the bank didnt give them free money they gave them money for the bonds at a lower rate
example
aven. got 28 mill for bonds
bonds are actully worth say 35 mill just guessing but that the way i c it
im not 100% sure tho on that but it seems to me the bank infact gave them money for the bonds but they still have to buy them back
"acting for Aventurine in relation to its issue of a €20 million convertible bond loan with Marfin Bank,"
Take a look at the "its" in that sentance.
The way I read that sentance tells me that Aventurine issued convertible bonds through Marfin Bank. "Acting for Aventurine in relation to "ITS" (Aventurines) issue of....
When this "game" is finally, once and for all, shown to be nothing but a pipedream, I promise not to laugh.
After all, I have to pity anyone who is this gullible and trusting for such a long time.
I feel for ya, Darkfallers. May the letdown be gentle..................
your the one that will be hurt cause you think its a pipe dream lol i dont really understand how you see that?
and on the bonds well the defention of the convertible bonds states diffrent they wouldnt have started a price if they didnt get naything they converted the bonds throw the bank this is why you think darkfall is vaporware or a pipe dream cause you can look at all the facts that its there unless there paying employs to make a pipedream then LOL
also on the bonds it never said they put them up for sell is says the bank issued them
not my problem we forums fallers will just move on to the next game if it happens to be a pipe dream
WE ARE WELL PREPARED SO NO LETDOWN WILL HAPPEN
but it seems like if it does come out you will die why is that?
btw zorvan defention of life umm well it seems you dont have one since your (not sure what your trying to do)
but isnt it smart not to even post in the forums if you think such things? cause technilly thats still consider watching it i guess you want it to come out too
"also on the bonds it never said they put them up for sell is says the bank issued them"
you're just reading it how you want to read it..
"acting for Aventurine in relation to its issue of a €20 million convertible bond loan with Marfin Bank,"
Take a look at the "its" in that sentance and "with"
The way I read that sentance tells me that Aventurine issued convertible bonds through Marfin Bank. "Acting for Aventurine in relation to "ITS" (Aventurines) issue of....
It doesn't say "FROM" Marfin Bank which would mean: (direct source or origin):
It uses "WITH" which indicates: (in some particular relation to)
they wouldnt have even state a price you dont put convertable bonds for sell throough a bank they use the bonds to get money from the bank lol so would you stop ignoring that is what happen
convertable bonds you dont really put up for sell = convertable for money through bank BONDS YOU DO
i have all day guess what i dont see what you trying to prove im just saying most likly theyg ot money form them but your sayiing with 100% certainy that they didnt recieve any money what make smroe sence?
i gave you proof of what it means and you just ignore it and just keep trying to throw yoru false words around btw trolling is another form of keeping the forums active if you just leave darkfall fans alone these forums probly wont have much on them most people waiting for this game on this site are playing other mmos the hardcore fans dont even bother with this site
the more you troll people the more the game gets known thanks for the free advertising
You didn't give proof of anything. all you did was list the meaning of a bond.. I gave much more proof to my argument than you did.
In finance, a bond is a debt security, in which the authorized issuer owes the holders a debt and is obliged to repay the principal and interest (the coupon) at a later date,
holders are the bank
A bond is simply a loan, but in the form of a security, although terminology used is rather different. The issuer is equivalent to the borrower, the bond holder to the lender, and the coupon to the interest. Bonds enable the issuer to finance long-term investments with external funds. Certificates of deposit (CDs) or commercial paper are considered money market instruments.
Bonds are issued by public authorities, credit institutions, companies and supranational institutions in the primary markets. The most common process of issuing bonds is through underwriting. In underwriting, one or more securities firms or banks, forming a syndicate, buy an entire issue of bonds from an issuer and re-sell them to investors.
Bonds are bought and traded mostly by institutions like pension funds, insurance companies and banks
looks like aven doesnt need a bank to put them up for sell the bank bought them from them
nice you just prooved your self wrong a bond is a bond convertable is just a type of bond with a lower interest rate
I rest my case you lost just give up
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/01/052301.asp
"As the name implies, convertible bonds, or converts, give the holder the option to exchange the bond for a predetermined number of shares in the issuing company."
Example
A conversion ratio of 45:1 means one bond (with a $1,000 par value) can be exchanged for 45 shares of stock.
But how does the holder GET those bonds in the first place? They buy them from the issuer. And I see Aventurine as being the issuer here with Marfkin bank acting as the intermediary..
The way I see it is Aventurine put 28 mill worth of convertible bonds up for purchase through Marfin Bank.. Of course I could be wrong.. but I don't think I am.
seems to me your looking at it your way 2 because it never said they put them up for sell
well it dont really matter they need or needed the moneyso yea ... game is real ,game is actully going to be polished by beta most of the features will be in excpt(If not it will fail and the devs know it so do we) for prestige classes at release seems to be there on a dead line then even hired more Q/A testers to get back on track guess darkfall is true dont you think?
AOC is OVER PRing and ib et it misses its release date again or its going to hurt them bad
kinda funny how forgiving poeple are for there miss dates when darkfall has HAD maybe 2 beta dates missed offcial not sure about the 2005 one but meh
Kudos for your blind faith in this disaster of a game development. But your defense of the definition of a bond still hasn't address the fact that this game has ZERO credibility.
Lets do some comparisons, shall we?
This was DF last "update"..
http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/2707-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-19-A-Round-Up
Not one screen shot, announcement of beta(AGAIN) or even a working in game video of an alpha build. Kudos for it being a month to month update but the lack of any information debunking its "vaporware" status STILL hasn't been achieved. BTW this monthly "updates" we're just a recent addition overall with prior "updates" being hit and miss. Keep in mind these updates alone have been going on scince 2001.
http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/video/
OMG look at this... videos, screen shots, class updates... even without the enriched lore backing Warhammer, War is light years ahead of Darkfall and its been in development for alot less time.
To be fair lets look at a game that isn't even rpg but still multiplayer.
http://www.starcraft2.com/
Even in a developmental hang up with one part of this game, SC2 is leaps ahead of DF and its only been in development for the last couple years. And the website shines 1000 time better than DF.
Seriously Darkfallers, I can design a better website than Df main page. It looks like it was put together by my little brothers 8th grade computer science class.
Let's just face it Darkfall fan bois , if this game was a solid idea and had a great foundation for play, then a major publisher would have picked up this game SEVEN YEARS AGO. Even if this game miraculously hit a release date within the next 2 years, it will be so far behind the competition and lost so much credibilty, that it will fold on those 2 issues alone.
warhammer is in beta and youtube has a few vids for darkfall ic ant help that darkfall doesnt have there own pr departmeant
plsu go look at dev journal 17 that day there was 2 for the journal and 3 or 4 added to the gallary so yea whats your deal again?
they also have publishers looking at there game 2 and there deciding on witch one is the better one
IF sandboxs werent so not proven to make alot of money because only small companys try them ALSO TO bad BIG company follow there linear pisses of crap CAUSE of WOW that we have bene getting AOC and war are both the same just Aoc is trying to be diffrent
they need to grow some balls
them not PR like crazy doesnt mean crap aventurine paying these devs and testers seem more of a chance the game is still being worked on and is in dev
dev journal are every 2 weeks ... so no point in argueing there
ALSO there a few darkfall vids
A TV show called gameplay aired one from 2006 beta build just last week
and darkfall has over 400 screenshots
I don't know what you want from us but whatever it is your not going to get it. So well your ahead I would give up. There no harm in following a game. but you act like there is please tell me what it is
Do we have to go over what I just said? Issued can be a synonym sold.