Terrain based camo would be cool, but they'd need to remove /target nearest enemy functionality in order to make it viable. Otherwise hiding behind vegitation, rocks or whatever is rendered pointless by someone spamming TAB.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
Terrain based camo would be cool, but they'd need to remove /target nearest enemy functionality in order to make it viable. Otherwise hiding behind vegitation, rocks or whatever is rendered pointless by someone spamming TAB.
That'd be missing from their options as part of the aforementioned concession to a few 'innate' benefits for a 'scout' class along with being gone from the radar. I think they should eliminate the "target nearest enemy" button anyways. It's just one more lazy tool for the weak mind IMO. Make ppl actually look around and be aware for once rather than mindlessly hitting the "what do I hit next" button. Then again, I think there should be no radar anyways. Make ppl actually look around like they would IRL.
Terrain based camo would be cool, but they'd need to remove /target nearest enemy functionality in order to make it viable. Otherwise hiding behind vegitation, rocks or whatever is rendered pointless by someone spamming TAB.
That'd be missing from their options as part of the aforementioned concession to a few 'innate' benefits for a 'scout' class along with being gone from the radar. I think they should eliminate the "target nearest enemy" button anyways. It's just one more lazy tool for the weak mind IMO. Make ppl actually look around and be aware for once rather than mindlessly hitting the "what do I hit next" button. Then again, I think there should be no radar anyways. Make ppl actually look around like they would IRL.
Terrain based camo would be cool, but they'd need to remove /target nearest enemy functionality in order to make it viable. Otherwise hiding behind vegitation, rocks or whatever is rendered pointless by someone spamming TAB.
Or you could make a person untargetable or invisible if they met the conditions for camoflauge.
The dark elf assasin. And with it stealth. If you know something about warhammer then you know how awesome these guys are. heres a concept art for one by me. an mmorpg w/o stealth means no proper rogue class. which means a crippled mmo. warhammer has a great stealth class in the lore already. why leave it out? to keep the game simple it seems.
Rogues can easily be replaced by a light tank class.
Terrain based camo would be cool, but they'd need to remove /target nearest enemy functionality in order to make it viable. Otherwise hiding behind vegitation, rocks or whatever is rendered pointless by someone spamming TAB.
That'd be missing from their options as part of the aforementioned concession to a few 'innate' benefits for a 'scout' class along with being gone from the radar. I think they should eliminate the "target nearest enemy" button anyways. It's just one more lazy tool for the weak mind IMO. Make ppl actually look around and be aware for once rather than mindlessly hitting the "what do I hit next" button. Then again, I think there should be no radar anyways. Make ppl actually look around like they would IRL.
When I was attacking an orc irl.....
LOL, as in what the military does IRL so the enemy doesn't walk up right behind them and stab them through the throat with a knife.
Terrain based camo would be cool, but they'd need to remove /target nearest enemy functionality in order to make it viable. Otherwise hiding behind vegitation, rocks or whatever is rendered pointless by someone spamming TAB.
Or you could make a person untargetable or invisible if they met the conditions for camoflauge.
There again, you are taking it out of the hands of the players. Let the player being 'snuck upon' be able to target IF he/she actually has the wherewithal to carefully look around and actually identify the player. Yes, that requires foliage or something for the 'scout' to have a chance, but that's real life. This system actually makes everyone jumpy and constantly looking around to try to ident the enemy. It will make the game more immersive than an invisible character. You'd just sit around and wait for them to suddenly appear.
Terrain based camo would be cool, but they'd need to remove /target nearest enemy functionality in order to make it viable. Otherwise hiding behind vegitation, rocks or whatever is rendered pointless by someone spamming TAB.
Or you could make a person untargetable or invisible if they met the conditions for camoflauge.
There again, you are taking it out of the hands of the players. Let the player being 'snuck upon' be able to target IF he/she actually has the wherewithal to carefully look around and actually identify the player. Yes, that requires foliage or something for the 'scout' to have a chance, but that's real life. This system actually makes everyone jumpy and constantly looking around to try to ident the enemy. It will make the game more immersive than an invisible character. You'd just sit around and wait for them to suddenly appear.
I agree the system you describe would be the best, I just don't know if that would work with current technologies, different settings people use, different abilities of peoples machines etc. so maybe just having it be a straight roll on chance to be camo based on the environment and distance would work.
Ive yet to play a game that has Stealth its always complete Invisibility.
Try Fable, Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay (my personal favorite) or any of the Splinter Cell series... or Assassin's Creed (though that's more crowd stealth stuff)
The stealth + melee combat + special moves (i.e. flip someone's shotgun around into their face and insta gib) made Riddick one of the best, yet most underrated FPS games ever created. Throw in the special night vision and a lighting system that rivalled Splinter Cell.. plus some good old fashion shoot'em up and a great storyline, Vin Diesel's creepy deep voice... amazing game.
True stealth.
I cannot WAIT until they come out with the re-vamped 360 version (they are making it now and I cannot wait)
Terrain based camo would be cool, but they'd need to remove /target nearest enemy functionality in order to make it viable. Otherwise hiding behind vegitation, rocks or whatever is rendered pointless by someone spamming TAB.
Or you could make a person untargetable or invisible if they met the conditions for camoflauge.
There again, you are taking it out of the hands of the players. Let the player being 'snuck upon' be able to target IF he/she actually has the wherewithal to carefully look around and actually identify the player. Yes, that requires foliage or something for the 'scout' to have a chance, but that's real life. This system actually makes everyone jumpy and constantly looking around to try to ident the enemy. It will make the game more immersive than an invisible character. You'd just sit around and wait for them to suddenly appear.
I agree the system you describe would be the best, I just don't know if that would work with current technologies, different settings people use, different abilities of peoples machines etc. so maybe just having it be a straight roll on chance to be camo based on the environment and distance would work.
That's what I've said. That's exactly why we don't have this system. Technology isn't there to allow real world foilage out to the clipping plane. Another problem is graphical settings allowing players to disable foilage and increase gamma. I haven't seen darkness in an MMO since the original EQ. Playing a human at night in EQ without a lightsource was very immersive. Having to avoid mobs by sound was exciting.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
We all remember Mark Jacob's infamous quote: "All stealthers are griefers." His words are a dagger that twists in the heart of any rogue who has roleplayed one since they were old enough to pick up a Dungeons and Dragons manual.
We all remember Mark Jacob's infamous quote: "All stealthers are griefers." His words are a dagger that twists in the heart of any rogue who has roleplayed one since they were old enough to pick up a Dungeons and Dragons manual.
I grew up on D&D, and MMO implementation of rogues is not the same. Stealth in MMOs is not based on character or player skill, it's a compromise that had to be made because of limitations with computers. So what we are left with a hotkey you press that makes your character invisible. No hide in shadows check, no move silently check, and is usually only broken by attacking or being attacked. It's gimmicky and is NOT the same as stealth in pen & paper RPGs.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
I haven't read this whole thread, but the idea of steath for shadowbane, a GvG game (wow is a pve game in all reality), was not really to get the jump on people but more to scout ahead of advancing groups and spot enemy targets and stuff. That's what you need stealth in a GvG game for. If you don't have that, I think you really miss out on a really fun role in a GvG game.
nethervoid - Est. '97 [UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|AQW|DN|SWTOR|Dofus|SotA|BDO|AO|NW|LA] - Currently Playing EQ1 20k+ subs YouTube Gaming channel
We all remember Mark Jacob's infamous quote: "All stealthers are griefers." His words are a dagger that twists in the heart of any rogue who has roleplayed one since they were old enough to pick up a Dungeons and Dragons manual.
I grew up on D&D, and MMO implementation of rogues is not the same. Stealth in MMOs is not based on character or player skill, it's a compromise that had to be made because of limitations with computers. So what we are left with a hotkey you press that makes your character invisible. No hide in shadows check, no move silently check, and is usually only broken by attacking or being attacked. It's gimmicky and is NOT the same as stealth in pen & paper RPGs.
This sums up what i've been saying all the time, however 'true' stealth as mentioned is possible this days DDO has mananged to pull of a 'hidden' detection system within an MMO (tho borrowed from other games), all really is kinda 'required' is to add into the code the 'common' MMO invisable traits however add in 'within cover' bit of coding it'll pad it out a bit but it'll possibily work
What WAR is missing is sensible and consistent class names. ("C'mon. Orc Choppa? Dwarf Hammerer? Enough r's in that last one?)
Another thing they are missing which is a major no-no in public gaming is to allow all genders to play all classes. I know that WAR has its lore, but I think this is one area where they can bend things a little to the benefit and happiness of the majority.
Lastly, they might be missing the world feel? Not sure about the latter, but if the game feels the least bit linear or contrived, this could destroy a major immersion factor.
I feel for ya man. Your getting screwed out of your assassin arch-type, me on the otherhand, i'm geting pwnt out of being a Crowd-Control class. We just have to remember this game isn't daoc 2 =(
What WAR is missing is sensible and consistent class names. ("C'mon. Orc Choppa? Dwarf Hammerer? Enough r's in that last one?)
Would you prefer a "sensible and consistent" class name like, oh, "warrior"? It has three R's! Oh no! Hammerer has two r's, I think you will live, and I fail to understand your point.
The class names are consistent with the lore and the feel for each race, actually. It makes less sense for every race to have similar class names, really, like in other bland games. Orcs are rather stupid and brutish, hence a name like "Choppa". Dwarfs are blunt and gruff, hence a to-the-point name like "Hammerer".
With the names and the gender thing, you seem to be calling for a bland world, "World of Fantasy MMORPG", with few defining characteristics. I applaud actions taken to make things different and more vibrant. Little things like interesting, thematic class names and a strong push to stick to defining lore all help accomplish this.
It seems to me like those who whine about stealth classes are those who never played one, and most likely they always pick a class with an "I win" button. I have played all different classes in both DAOC and WOW and I have to say, stealth classes requuired great skilled players to be good. If you get one shoted by any stealth class at the max level, you need to relearn how to play your toon right. And don't talk about BG situation because both DAOC and WOW are balanced for the end game, highest level, not the low level BGs.
It seems to me like those who whine about stealth classes are those who never played one, and most likely they always pick a class with an "I win" button. I have played all different classes in both DAOC and WOW and I have to say, stealth classes requuired great skilled players to be good. If you get one shoted by any stealth class at the max level, you need to relearn how to play your toon right. And don't talk about BG situation because both DAOC and WOW are balanced for the end game, highest level, not the low level BGs.
Stealth classes require nothing of the sort and it makes me wonder if you have even played a stealth class. The ability to catch an opponent off guard is the absolute best ability in a battle. It forces them to panic and when you panic you do stupid things. So a class that could effectively kill a stealth class with the right set of actions can easily be killed because of the stealth advantage. The sad fact is that stealth cannot be balanced. Mythic realizes this and has cut it from the classes.
If you really want stealth, I will give it to you. You get no armor, high damage, and a 50% chance that I turn around and 1hit you with a halberd to your chest. God how the kiddies would cry.
Well I guess you really havent played daoc. Stealth takes no skill at all. All you do is hide and and pop on casters and one hit kill with your pa and if you dont pa you run and stealth because stealthers have no skill. That class is rediculously stupid. They do no good but scouting and all they do is interefere in 8v8 fights. Im so glad there is no stealther in this game.
Frankly I am just stunned how little Mythic understands its customer base. They found out in beta that players wanted castle/keep seige......WHICH WAS NOT IN THE GAME !!!! ?? Now they are in the process of adding it. DDDDUUUHHHH !
lol you guys say stuff like... well just because stealth wasnt balanced in other games........ come on for one... there is not much you can do to balance stealth... besides adding shit loads of view stealth items or spells...because stealth is stealth no way to really balance it... personaly yay some ppl who are trying to fix pvp... not screw it up even more.. wow pvp sucked... l2 sucked... daoc sucked...no mmo has ever made pvp fun except for the griefers and thats just stupid
Comments
Terrain based camo would be cool, but they'd need to remove /target nearest enemy functionality in order to make it viable. Otherwise hiding behind vegitation, rocks or whatever is rendered pointless by someone spamming TAB.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
That'd be missing from their options as part of the aforementioned concession to a few 'innate' benefits for a 'scout' class along with being gone from the radar. I think they should eliminate the "target nearest enemy" button anyways. It's just one more lazy tool for the weak mind IMO. Make ppl actually look around and be aware for once rather than mindlessly hitting the "what do I hit next" button. Then again, I think there should be no radar anyways. Make ppl actually look around like they would IRL.
That'd be missing from their options as part of the aforementioned concession to a few 'innate' benefits for a 'scout' class along with being gone from the radar. I think they should eliminate the "target nearest enemy" button anyways. It's just one more lazy tool for the weak mind IMO. Make ppl actually look around and be aware for once rather than mindlessly hitting the "what do I hit next" button. Then again, I think there should be no radar anyways. Make ppl actually look around like they would IRL.
When I was attacking an orc irl.....
playing eq2 and two worlds
Or you could make a person untargetable or invisible if they met the conditions for camoflauge.
Rogues can easily be replaced by a light tank class.
Only thing missing is stealth.
That'd be missing from their options as part of the aforementioned concession to a few 'innate' benefits for a 'scout' class along with being gone from the radar. I think they should eliminate the "target nearest enemy" button anyways. It's just one more lazy tool for the weak mind IMO. Make ppl actually look around and be aware for once rather than mindlessly hitting the "what do I hit next" button. Then again, I think there should be no radar anyways. Make ppl actually look around like they would IRL.
When I was attacking an orc irl.....
LOL, as in what the military does IRL so the enemy doesn't walk up right behind them and stab them through the throat with a knife.
Or you could make a person untargetable or invisible if they met the conditions for camoflauge.
There again, you are taking it out of the hands of the players. Let the player being 'snuck upon' be able to target IF he/she actually has the wherewithal to carefully look around and actually identify the player. Yes, that requires foliage or something for the 'scout' to have a chance, but that's real life. This system actually makes everyone jumpy and constantly looking around to try to ident the enemy. It will make the game more immersive than an invisible character. You'd just sit around and wait for them to suddenly appear.
Ive yet to play a game that has Stealth its always complete Invisibility.
Or you could make a person untargetable or invisible if they met the conditions for camoflauge.
There again, you are taking it out of the hands of the players. Let the player being 'snuck upon' be able to target IF he/she actually has the wherewithal to carefully look around and actually identify the player. Yes, that requires foliage or something for the 'scout' to have a chance, but that's real life. This system actually makes everyone jumpy and constantly looking around to try to ident the enemy. It will make the game more immersive than an invisible character. You'd just sit around and wait for them to suddenly appear.
I agree the system you describe would be the best, I just don't know if that would work with current technologies, different settings people use, different abilities of peoples machines etc. so maybe just having it be a straight roll on chance to be camo based on the environment and distance would work.
The stealth + melee combat + special moves (i.e. flip someone's shotgun around into their face and insta gib) made Riddick one of the best, yet most underrated FPS games ever created. Throw in the special night vision and a lighting system that rivalled Splinter Cell.. plus some good old fashion shoot'em up and a great storyline, Vin Diesel's creepy deep voice... amazing game.
True stealth.
I cannot WAIT until they come out with the re-vamped 360 version (they are making it now and I cannot wait)
Or you could make a person untargetable or invisible if they met the conditions for camoflauge.
There again, you are taking it out of the hands of the players. Let the player being 'snuck upon' be able to target IF he/she actually has the wherewithal to carefully look around and actually identify the player. Yes, that requires foliage or something for the 'scout' to have a chance, but that's real life. This system actually makes everyone jumpy and constantly looking around to try to ident the enemy. It will make the game more immersive than an invisible character. You'd just sit around and wait for them to suddenly appear.
I agree the system you describe would be the best, I just don't know if that would work with current technologies, different settings people use, different abilities of peoples machines etc. so maybe just having it be a straight roll on chance to be camo based on the environment and distance would work.
That's what I've said. That's exactly why we don't have this system. Technology isn't there to allow real world foilage out to the clipping plane. Another problem is graphical settings allowing players to disable foilage and increase gamma. I haven't seen darkness in an MMO since the original EQ. Playing a human at night in EQ without a lightsource was very immersive. Having to avoid mobs by sound was exciting.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
We all remember Mark Jacob's infamous quote: "All stealthers are griefers." His words are a dagger that twists in the heart of any rogue who has roleplayed one since they were old enough to pick up a Dungeons and Dragons manual.
I grew up on D&D, and MMO implementation of rogues is not the same. Stealth in MMOs is not based on character or player skill, it's a compromise that had to be made because of limitations with computers. So what we are left with a hotkey you press that makes your character invisible. No hide in shadows check, no move silently check, and is usually only broken by attacking or being attacked. It's gimmicky and is NOT the same as stealth in pen & paper RPGs.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
I haven't read this whole thread, but the idea of steath for shadowbane, a GvG game (wow is a pve game in all reality), was not really to get the jump on people but more to scout ahead of advancing groups and spot enemy targets and stuff. That's what you need stealth in a GvG game for. If you don't have that, I think you really miss out on a really fun role in a GvG game.
nethervoid - Est. '97
[UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|AQW|DN|SWTOR|Dofus|SotA|BDO|AO|NW|LA] - Currently Playing EQ1
20k+ subs YouTube Gaming channel
I grew up on D&D, and MMO implementation of rogues is not the same. Stealth in MMOs is not based on character or player skill, it's a compromise that had to be made because of limitations with computers. So what we are left with a hotkey you press that makes your character invisible. No hide in shadows check, no move silently check, and is usually only broken by attacking or being attacked. It's gimmicky and is NOT the same as stealth in pen & paper RPGs.
This sums up what i've been saying all the time, however 'true' stealth as mentioned is possible this days DDO has mananged to pull of a 'hidden' detection system within an MMO (tho borrowed from other games), all really is kinda 'required' is to add into the code the 'common' MMO invisable traits however add in 'within cover' bit of coding it'll pad it out a bit but it'll possibily work
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
What WAR is missing is sensible and consistent class names. ("C'mon. Orc Choppa? Dwarf Hammerer? Enough r's in that last one?)
Another thing they are missing which is a major no-no in public gaming is to allow all genders to play all classes. I know that WAR has its lore, but I think this is one area where they can bend things a little to the benefit and happiness of the majority.
Lastly, they might be missing the world feel? Not sure about the latter, but if the game feels the least bit linear or contrived, this could destroy a major immersion factor.
I feel for ya man. Your getting screwed out of your assassin arch-type, me on the otherhand, i'm geting pwnt out of being a Crowd-Control class. We just have to remember this game isn't daoc 2 =(
Would you prefer a "sensible and consistent" class name like, oh, "warrior"? It has three R's! Oh no! Hammerer has two r's, I think you will live, and I fail to understand your point.
The class names are consistent with the lore and the feel for each race, actually. It makes less sense for every race to have similar class names, really, like in other bland games. Orcs are rather stupid and brutish, hence a name like "Choppa". Dwarfs are blunt and gruff, hence a to-the-point name like "Hammerer".
With the names and the gender thing, you seem to be calling for a bland world, "World of Fantasy MMORPG", with few defining characteristics. I applaud actions taken to make things different and more vibrant. Little things like interesting, thematic class names and a strong push to stick to defining lore all help accomplish this.
It seems to me like those who whine about stealth classes are those who never played one, and most likely they always pick a class with an "I win" button. I have played all different classes in both DAOC and WOW and I have to say, stealth classes requuired great skilled players to be good. If you get one shoted by any stealth class at the max level, you need to relearn how to play your toon right. And don't talk about BG situation because both DAOC and WOW are balanced for the end game, highest level, not the low level BGs.
WAIT INVISIBLE UNTIL ENEMY IS AT 20% HEALTH FROM KILLING A MOB
STUN
STAB STAB STAB
STUN
STAB STAB STAB UNTIL ENEMY IS DEAD
GO INVISIBLE AND WAIT FOR ANOTHER VICTIM
Stealth classes require nothing of the sort and it makes me wonder if you have even played a stealth class. The ability to catch an opponent off guard is the absolute best ability in a battle. It forces them to panic and when you panic you do stupid things. So a class that could effectively kill a stealth class with the right set of actions can easily be killed because of the stealth advantage. The sad fact is that stealth cannot be balanced. Mythic realizes this and has cut it from the classes.
If you really want stealth, I will give it to you. You get no armor, high damage, and a 50% chance that I turn around and 1hit you with a halberd to your chest. God how the kiddies would cry.
Of course itcan be balanced, It is very balanced in Shadowbane. There are tons of ways you could make it balanced.
mythic simply wanted to go in a differnt direction. Which I think was a poor choice
Well I guess you really havent played daoc. Stealth takes no skill at all. All you do is hide and and pop on casters and one hit kill with your pa and if you dont pa you run and stealth because stealthers have no skill. That class is rediculously stupid. They do no good but scouting and all they do is interefere in 8v8 fights. Im so glad there is no stealther in this game.
Frankly I am just stunned how little Mythic understands its customer base. They found out in beta that players wanted castle/keep seige......WHICH WAS NOT IN THE GAME !!!! ?? Now they are in the process of adding it. DDDDUUUHHHH !
lol you guys say stuff like... well just because stealth wasnt balanced in other games........ come on for one... there is not much you can do to balance stealth... besides adding shit loads of view stealth items or spells...because stealth is stealth no way to really balance it... personaly yay some ppl who are trying to fix pvp... not screw it up even more.. wow pvp sucked... l2 sucked... daoc sucked...no mmo has ever made pvp fun except for the griefers and thats just stupid