Bioware is the anti-thesis to open-ended non-linear gameplay. If you are expecting Bioware to make a sandbox style MMO or anything resembling Pre-NGE or Pre-CU, you WILL be disappointed. Bioware places emphasis on modularity, level design and narrative over open-endedness.
Bioware is the anti-thesis to open-ended non-linear gameplay. If you are expecting Bioware to make a sandbox style MMO or anything resembling Pre-NGE or Pre-CU, you WILL be disappointed. Bioware places emphasis on modularity, level design and narrative over open-endedness.
I am afraid you are probably right. However, it is true that a lot of ex-SWGers are now working for the Bioware studio is Austen, like Richard Vogel and Gordon Walton. We can hope that perhaps they are lobbying for the addition of some sandbox elements to the Bioware model but we should not be too optimistic.
Bioware is the anti-thesis to open-ended non-linear gameplay. If you are expecting Bioware to make a sandbox style MMO or anything resembling Pre-NGE or Pre-CU, you WILL be disappointed. Bioware places emphasis on modularity, level design and narrative over open-endedness.
I am afraid you are probably right. However, it is true that a lot of ex-SWGers are now working for the Bioware studio is Austen, like Richard Vogel and Gordon Walton. We can hope that perhaps they are lobbying for the addition of some sandbox elements to the Bioware model but we should not be too optimistic.
Walton has been the most vocal of the team so far, and everything he says and seems to believe about MMO design, points towards a more linear restricted game. I don't think he was a fan of SWG's sandbox approach.
Bioware is the anti-thesis to open-ended non-linear gameplay. If you are expecting Bioware to make a sandbox style MMO or anything resembling Pre-NGE or Pre-CU, you WILL be disappointed. Bioware places emphasis on modularity, level design and narrative over open-endedness.
Why on earth would they hire every last developer that is left in the industry that has worked on an mmo that is NON-linear. Why did they say in the 1up article that it will have directed content but its NOT linear. Im not by any means saying it will resemble any sort of sandbox...but, what your are saying doesnt jive with what they are saying and doing. If its a SW mmo...how could you ignore that in the previous sw mmo..a completely empty map of a game reached 400k? maybe, and every change that made it more linear resulted in a decline of both existing players and new players. Its been proven that there are no sw fans wanting a linear sw mmo..so why would they make one with a team made up of people with expertise in NON-linear? Even if its not a sw mmo..why would you think that given what we know about the team..the fact they said its NOT linear, and the technology they have licensed.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Frankly, I don't understand why some people are hell bent on drawing a distinction between a "sandbox" game and one with "directed" content.
Honestly, must the two be absolutely mutually exclusive??
I appreciate that "sandbox" means different things to different people, but regardless... can't a good MMO have both linear AND non-linear content?
Take the single-player game Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. I'd say that offered both. There was a progressive (and branching) story line to follow, AND numerous sub-quests/activities to pursue. Is it such a leap of faith to imagine that a MMO could offer a similar experience?
i think it will be really high. the expectations are huge and the hype is growing without the companies help. on the flip side Bioware could make a godly MMO and everyone would be happy for another year or so (god i hope that happens)
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Frankly, I don't understand why some people are hell bent on drawing a distinction between a "sandbox" game and one with "directed" content.
Honestly, must the two be absolutely mutually exclusive??
I appreciate that "sandbox" means different things to different people, but regardless... can't a good MMO have both linear AND non-linear content?
Take the single-player game Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. I'd say that offered both. There was a progressive (and branching) story line to follow, AND numerous sub-quests/activities to pursue. Is it such a leap of faith to imagine that a MMO could offer a similar experience?
Agree.
There is a distiction though between a worldy mmo and a game. The 2 main differences are freedom and choice. I think elder scrolls is an excellent medium. Either way i think Bioware, whatever they make will deliver a wonderful experience as usual. As long as they dont change their minds after launch :P
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Doesn't it make more sense that BioWare take their single player experience and turn it into an MMO rather than take someone elses experience and turn it into an MMO?
They've said they want to make an MMO with a focus on the character's story line, not a global story line. They've ruled out player cities and player driven economy, they won't commit to even having crafting in the game, to me that just takes out the vast majority of what people expect from a sandbox.
The MMO team's producer is the former lead of Kotor1, the MMO team, whilst having many SWG devs, has just as many Kotor1 and other game devs. The most vocal and lead designer, Walton, an ex-SWG dev, doesn't seem to like the sandbox approach.
There is nothing here, or anywhere, that points to BioWare's MMO being a sandbox MMO, those of us who have been following it for over a year now, long before the Star Wars rumor, have never been led to believe that it will be anything but linear.
Frankly, I don't understand why some people are hell bent on drawing a distinction between a "sandbox" game and one with "directed" content.
Honestly, must the two be absolutely mutually exclusive??
I appreciate that "sandbox" means different things to different people, but regardless... can't a good MMO have both linear AND non-linear content?
Take the single-player game Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. I'd say that offered both. There was a progressive (and branching) story line to follow, AND numerous sub-quests/activities to pursue. Is it such a leap of faith to imagine that a MMO could offer a similar experience?
If the non-linear "sandbox" content is the dominant one it is possible to have linear "micro" games embedded. Can't see it the other way round. Origin sandbox doesn't contains a concept of "storyline" , the most what it offers to someone should be the tools for someone to create an individual story/content.
The other possible idea is to detach the content in phases, like whats happening in having starter areas with linear elements before you join mainland, the "open ending" world so to speak.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Frankly, I don't understand why some people are hell bent on drawing a distinction between a "sandbox" game and one with "directed" content.
Honestly, must the two be absolutely mutually exclusive??
I appreciate that "sandbox" means different things to different people, but regardless... can't a good MMO have both linear AND non-linear content?
Take the single-player game Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. I'd say that offered both. There was a progressive (and branching) story line to follow, AND numerous sub-quests/activities to pursue. Is it such a leap of faith to imagine that a MMO could offer a similar experience?
To an extent, I agree with you.
My problem with the NGE was never the starting space station and its line of tutorial quests and then the heritage quests that followed. If they had been integrated with the various theme park quests, Kasshyyk and Mustaphar quests, I still would not have objected.
What I objected to was the counter-intuitive GUI, the pathway landscapes, the compression of the professions and the removal of the hard-earned Alpha class. And so, it seemed, did nearly a quarter of a million others.
What I objected to was the feeble attempt to cram an FPS mechanic into an engine that could barely handle turn-based combat. I also didn't care for most of the parts that were a legacy from the CU; combat levels, oversimplification of skills/abilities, etc.. Then there were all the bugs/problems left over from the pre-CU which were still never corrected/addressed, such as mobs spawning inside geometry, lack of significant content/purpose for Smugglers, droids, etc..
I didn't mind the abolishment of melee and the so-called "hard-earned" Alpha classes. Frankly, in my opinion, that crap never belonged in the game in the first place.
I didn't mind the abolishment of melee and the so-called "hard-earned" Alpha classes. Frankly, in my opinion, that crap never belonged in the game in the first place.
However, that 'crap' was what kept many people in the game and provided a new, enjoyable, longterm progression. Unfortunately some people were too stupid, too envious or too lazy to allow other people to get ahead and enjoy their 'Alpha' class if they themselves didn't have the personal capacities to allow them to unlock one themselves. Those damaged whiners were the ones who finally pursuaded SOE to 'abolish' the game for all of us.
I didn't mind the abolishment of melee and the so-called "hard-earned" Alpha classes. Frankly, in my opinion, that crap never belonged in the game in the first place.
However, that 'crap' was what kept many people in the game and provided a new, enjoyable, longterm progression. Unfortunately some people were too stupid, too envious or too lazy to allow other people to get ahead and enjoy their 'Alpha' class if they themselves didn't have the personal capacities to allow them to unlock one themselves. Those damaged whiners were the ones who finally pursuaded SOE to 'abolish' the game for all of us.
Tell me about it there was no greater Joy for me in SWG then some alpha noob run up to my TKM thinking he was going to show his leetness but he quikly relized that he was not the true alpha class, when he woke up in the cloner with a skill box loss..the tells I used to get were classic and often I still look at them today when I need a laugh(via screen shots)...
I didn't mind the abolishment of melee and the so-called "hard-earned" Alpha classes. Frankly, in my opinion, that crap never belonged in the game in the first place.
However, that 'crap' was what kept many people in the game and provided a new, enjoyable, longterm progression. Unfortunately some people were too stupid, too envious or too lazy to allow other people to get ahead and enjoy their 'Alpha' class if they themselves didn't have the personal capacities to allow them to unlock one themselves. Those damaged whiners were the ones who finally pursuaded SOE to 'abolish' the game for all of us.
What a load of myopic, self-serving rubbish.
Look, an 'alpha' class can NOT exist in a vacuum. Someone MUST play a significantly inferior role (and I don't mean crafters), or otherwise there is no 'alpha' status.
What you're advocating is for EVERYONE to pursue the 'alpha' (which as I recall, was indeed what was happening) if they wanted some semblance of balance. Let's overlook that Jedi have no friggin place in the story's timeline (and please, spare me the "but all Jedi weren't killed in Ep. III" fan fiction nonsense), nor were they bound in any way, shape or form to the "interdependency" that was supposed to be the foundation for the game. If everyone aspired to play an alpha class, then there simply wouldn't BE an alpha class.
The only other alternative would be to implement population caps; only allowing X number of 'alpha' players per server. And frankly, that's just as unacceptable. Why on earth should a game — by design — favor a tiny minority at the EXPENSE of the rest of the playerbase??
An alpha class in a multiplayer game, particularly one dependent on subscriptions, is just outright stupid.
I didn't mind the abolishment of melee and the so-called "hard-earned" Alpha classes. Frankly, in my opinion, that crap never belonged in the game in the first place.
However, that 'crap' was what kept many people in the game and provided a new, enjoyable, longterm progression. Unfortunately some people were too stupid, too envious or too lazy to allow other people to get ahead and enjoy their 'Alpha' class if they themselves didn't have the personal capacities to allow them to unlock one themselves. Those damaged whiners were the ones who finally pursuaded SOE to 'abolish' the game for all of us.
Tell me about it there was no greater Joy for me in SWG then some alpha noob run up to my TKM thinking he was going to show his leetness but he quikly relized that he was not the true alpha class, when he woke up in the cloner with a skill box loss..the tells I used to get were classic and often I still look at them today when I need a laugh(via screen shots)...
You was lucky meeting a jedi adept not knowing his borders but from an finished template (aka full templated) you had to run away quick if you wasn't with gang
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
I didn't mind the abolishment of melee and the so-called "hard-earned" Alpha classes. Frankly, in my opinion, that crap never belonged in the game in the first place.
However, that 'crap' was what kept many people in the game and provided a new, enjoyable, longterm progression. Unfortunately some people were too stupid, too envious or too lazy to allow other people to get ahead and enjoy their 'Alpha' class if they themselves didn't have the personal capacities to allow them to unlock one themselves. Those damaged whiners were the ones who finally pursuaded SOE to 'abolish' the game for all of us.
What a load of myopic, self-serving rubbish.
Look, an 'alpha' class can NOT exist in a vacuum. Someone MUST play a significantly inferior role (and I don't mean crafters), or otherwise there is no 'alpha' status.
What you're advocating is for EVERYONE to pursue the 'alpha' (which as I recall, was indeed what was happening) if they wanted some semblance of balance. Let's overlook that Jedi have no friggin place in the story's timeline (and please, spare me the "but all Jedi weren't killed in Ep. III" fan fiction nonsense), nor were they bound in any way, shape or form to the "interdependency" that was supposed to be the foundation for the game. If everyone aspired to play an alpha class, then there simply wouldn't BE an alpha class.
The only other alternative would be to implement population caps; only allowing X number of 'alpha' players per server. And frankly, that's just as unacceptable. Why on earth should a game — by design — favor a tiny minority at the EXPENSE of the rest of the playerbase??
An alpha class in a multiplayer game, particularly one dependent on subscriptions, is just outright stupid.
I'm sorry if it makes you so angry but it's simple and a fact - the vast majority of logterm players in SWG stayed because their effort was rewarded with a Jedi. Perhaps you just didn't have what it took - patience, attention, persistence and resolution - to make the cut. In that case, yes, a game without an Alpha class is probably more your thing. Why not try the Sims Online or FFXI, you'll probably be happier there. Good luck to you.
I didn't mind the abolishment of melee and the so-called "hard-earned" Alpha classes. Frankly, in my opinion, that crap never belonged in the game in the first place.
However, that 'crap' was what kept many people in the game and provided a new, enjoyable, longterm progression. Unfortunately some people were too stupid, too envious or too lazy to allow other people to get ahead and enjoy their 'Alpha' class if they themselves didn't have the personal capacities to allow them to unlock one themselves. Those damaged whiners were the ones who finally pursuaded SOE to 'abolish' the game for all of us.
What a load of myopic, self-serving rubbish.
Look, an 'alpha' class can NOT exist in a vacuum. Someone MUST play a significantly inferior role (and I don't mean crafters), or otherwise there is no 'alpha' status.
What you're advocating is for EVERYONE to pursue the 'alpha' (which as I recall, was indeed what was happening) if they wanted some semblance of balance. Let's overlook that Jedi have no friggin place in the story's timeline (and please, spare me the "but all Jedi weren't killed in Ep. III" fan fiction nonsense), nor were they bound in any way, shape or form to the "interdependency" that was supposed to be the foundation for the game. If everyone aspired to play an alpha class, then there simply wouldn't BE an alpha class.
The only other alternative would be to implement population caps; only allowing X number of 'alpha' players per server. And frankly, that's just as unacceptable. Why on earth should a game — by design — favor a tiny minority at the EXPENSE of the rest of the playerbase??
An alpha class in a multiplayer game, particularly one dependent on subscriptions, is just outright stupid.
I'm sorry if it makes you so angry but it's simple and a fact - the vast majority of logterm players in SWG stayed because their effort was rewarded with a Jedi. Perhaps you just didn't have what it took - patience, attention, persistence and resolution - to make the cut. In that case, yes, a game without an Alpha class is probably more your thing. Why not try the Sims Online or FFXI, you'll probably be happier there. Good luck to you.
You forgot the extra character slot which put on at least another six months on top of your subscription payments and thats just grinding the toon
Their effort? Which part took the most patience, attention, persistence and resolution? AFK dancing or chucking borked grenades at lairs?
Here's a fact for ya. I think you're simple and more than a touch bit childish.
But hey, why not host your own Jedi Knight server, give yourself admin god mode, and live out your greatest, self-indulgent alpha class fantasies? You'd probably be happier. And may teh Force be with you, Goku, always!
Their effort? Which part took the most patience, attention, persistence and resolution? AFK dancing or chucking borked grenades at lairs?
Here's a fact for ya. I think you're simple and more than a touch bit childish.
But hey, why not host your own Jedi Knight server, give yourself admin god mode, and live out your greatest, self-indulgent alpha class fantasies? You'd probably be happier. And may teh Force be with you, Goku, always!
Originally posted by Anofalye Did I miss something?
As far as I can tell, the MMO is not a SW.
I still hope for medieval-fantasy. Mass Effect was enough sci-fi...and the new project with LA is another sci-fi...leaves the MMO alone. :P
Ugh! I hope they prove you wrong, because I'm sick and tired of Orc V. Elf fantasy MMO's! The market is saturated and quite frankly it's getting annoying. You want a fantasy MMO? there's tons of em out now. We need a good sci fi MMO out and the few that are out are garbage (except for EvE)
I didn't mind the abolishment of melee and the so-called "hard-earned" Alpha classes. Frankly, in my opinion, that crap never belonged in the game in the first place.
However, that 'crap' was what kept many people in the game and provided a new, enjoyable, longterm progression. Unfortunately some people were too stupid, too envious or too lazy to allow other people to get ahead and enjoy their 'Alpha' class if they themselves didn't have the personal capacities to allow them to unlock one themselves. Those damaged whiners were the ones who finally pursuaded SOE to 'abolish' the game for all of us.
What a load of myopic, self-serving rubbish.
Look, an 'alpha' class can NOT exist in a vacuum. Someone MUST play a significantly inferior role (and I don't mean crafters), or otherwise there is no 'alpha' status.
What you're advocating is for EVERYONE to pursue the 'alpha' (which as I recall, was indeed what was happening) if they wanted some semblance of balance. Let's overlook that Jedi have no friggin place in the story's timeline (and please, spare me the "but all Jedi weren't killed in Ep. III" fan fiction nonsense), nor were they bound in any way, shape or form to the "interdependency" that was supposed to be the foundation for the game. If everyone aspired to play an alpha class, then there simply wouldn't BE an alpha class.
The only other alternative would be to implement population caps; only allowing X number of 'alpha' players per server. And frankly, that's just as unacceptable. Why on earth should a game — by design — favor a tiny minority at the EXPENSE of the rest of the playerbase??
An alpha class in a multiplayer game, particularly one dependent on subscriptions, is just outright stupid.
You have a point. The problems with it though....
Jedi are a huge part of the Star Wars mythos. When you consider how large a part of the Star Wars marketing orbits gently around Jedi, from the books, to the games, to the toys... Jedi had to be a part of any SW MMO. The problem in SWG was how they were implemented.
I still believe an Alpha class can work, but there has to be some segregation of the class involved. Jedi was a forced pvp class and an Alpha class... can you truthfully think of any dumber combination for an MMO? If Jedi and BH had both been segregated from SWG pvp and then balanced against each other, instead of trying to balance all the possible templates? Might have actually been feasible, especially if acquiring BH was similar to the time and effort required to become a Jedi.
Oh... and I did think of something dumber a company could do in a MMO... punish people for teaming like the whole visibility system did. Non GCW faction NPCs should've *never* caused visibility because dead men can't rat you out. In addition players should never be relied on to punish players, create a mechanic involving NPCs/ pve in game for punishment and you remove a lot of the griefing and nerf calls. Use the whole TEF/faction 'scan" mechanic they used towards the end to keep Jedi visibility in major cities to a minimum (because I know some people were hardcore about 'immersion'), add some Jedi faction games to be played out at the Jedi enclaves to remove the rest and it would've sloved a lot of problems.
Overall, I don't think Jedi was a bad idea -in fact, I would label it closer to necessary evil if nothing else- it was just badly implemented.... like so many other things.
...and yeah, I agree. Hasn't fantasy been done to death already? There are so many interesting options to explore for sci-fi, do we really need more elf-on-dark elf action?
Just so everyone knows I'm not a Jedi Hater, I've enjoyed games like Jedi Knight Outcast, hell I still have that game installed. I 'loved' KOTOR 1, not so much KOTOR 2 however KOTOR 1 is one of the best RPG's I've played ever... And this is coming from someone who is an older gamer and remembers the days of Ultima Underworld, a game that is sadly still underrated....
My thing with Jedi was this, not in the GCW timeline and not as an Alpha Class.
As a Star Wars fan, I'm sorry but Jedi just do not belong in the GCW timeline. There really is only two Jedi's, well one after New Hope, 2 Sith Lords and a Boy who could go one way or the other. Putting Jedi in SWG in my eyes has turned the hardcore Star Wars fans away from the game... Also and lets face the facts, we all knew when someone found out 'how' to unlock Jedi or when SOE spoke up about how to unlock it, everyone and their mother would have been working on unlocking it....
As for the Alpha Class, I'm sorry but my time on Ultima Online has shown me one big thing. You just cannot give the Player Base something like that. Yes some did Role Play their Jedi, however I did see others that just went and got it so they can scream "i pwn u noob lol!" As much as all of you say the 14 year old grief kiddies didn't work on getting Jedi, believe me they did... Also the other big thing is Alpha Classes do bring other 'scum' well scum imho into the game... Sorry but when I hear someone tell me "Oh I'm working on Jedi so I can make $500 bucks on ebay." That just doesn't strike me as anything good over all for the game....
Now as for if this ends up being KOTOR-Online, if Jedi is in it... Fine! The timeline allows does allow Jedi's and Dark Jedi's, well Pre-Rule of Two Sith! And really tell the truth, I don't think doing a KOTOR-Online would be a bad thing over all... It would allow a hell of alot more freedom in what to do with the game, SWG well one of my big faults is SOE ignoring the timeline about 90% of the time...
As for it being another Fantasy Title, well we know BioWare is working on Dragon Age. And I wouldn't put it past BioWare trying to get the Forgotten Realms IP back in their hands. Wouldn't be a bad thing really, and I can see them pulling out a really good Forgotten Realms MMORPG... Still I do remember them saying it's a 'Sci-Fi MMO' so my guess is it could be a Mass Effect MMO, KOTOR Online, or a Sci-Fi IP like Battlestar or Firefly.
Comments
Bioware is the anti-thesis to open-ended non-linear gameplay. If you are expecting Bioware to make a sandbox style MMO or anything resembling Pre-NGE or Pre-CU, you WILL be disappointed. Bioware places emphasis on modularity, level design and narrative over open-endedness.
I am afraid you are probably right. However, it is true that a lot of ex-SWGers are now working for the Bioware studio is Austen, like Richard Vogel and Gordon Walton. We can hope that perhaps they are lobbying for the addition of some sandbox elements to the Bioware model but we should not be too optimistic.
I am afraid you are probably right. However, it is true that a lot of ex-SWGers are now working for the Bioware studio is Austen, like Richard Vogel and Gordon Walton. We can hope that perhaps they are lobbying for the addition of some sandbox elements to the Bioware model but we should not be too optimistic.
Walton has been the most vocal of the team so far, and everything he says and seems to believe about MMO design, points towards a more linear restricted game. I don't think he was a fan of SWG's sandbox approach.
Why on earth would they hire every last developer that is left in the industry that has worked on an mmo that is NON-linear. Why did they say in the 1up article that it will have directed content but its NOT linear. Im not by any means saying it will resemble any sort of sandbox...but, what your are saying doesnt jive with what they are saying and doing. If its a SW mmo...how could you ignore that in the previous sw mmo..a completely empty map of a game reached 400k? maybe, and every change that made it more linear resulted in a decline of both existing players and new players. Its been proven that there are no sw fans wanting a linear sw mmo..so why would they make one with a team made up of people with expertise in NON-linear? Even if its not a sw mmo..why would you think that given what we know about the team..the fact they said its NOT linear, and the technology they have licensed.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Frankly, I don't understand why some people are hell bent on drawing a distinction between a "sandbox" game and one with "directed" content.
Honestly, must the two be absolutely mutually exclusive??
I appreciate that "sandbox" means different things to different people, but regardless... can't a good MMO have both linear AND non-linear content?
Take the single-player game Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. I'd say that offered both. There was a progressive (and branching) story line to follow, AND numerous sub-quests/activities to pursue. Is it such a leap of faith to imagine that a MMO could offer a similar experience?
i think it will be really high. the expectations are huge and the hype is growing without the companies help. on the flip side Bioware could make a godly MMO and everyone would be happy for another year or so (god i hope that happens)
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
There is a distiction though between a worldy mmo and a game. The 2 main differences are freedom and choice. I think elder scrolls is an excellent medium. Either way i think Bioware, whatever they make will deliver a wonderful experience as usual. As long as they dont change their minds after launch :P
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Doesn't it make more sense that BioWare take their single player experience and turn it into an MMO rather than take someone elses experience and turn it into an MMO?
They've said they want to make an MMO with a focus on the character's story line, not a global story line. They've ruled out player cities and player driven economy, they won't commit to even having crafting in the game, to me that just takes out the vast majority of what people expect from a sandbox.
The MMO team's producer is the former lead of Kotor1, the MMO team, whilst having many SWG devs, has just as many Kotor1 and other game devs. The most vocal and lead designer, Walton, an ex-SWG dev, doesn't seem to like the sandbox approach.
There is nothing here, or anywhere, that points to BioWare's MMO being a sandbox MMO, those of us who have been following it for over a year now, long before the Star Wars rumor, have never been led to believe that it will be anything but linear.
If the non-linear "sandbox" content is the dominant one it is possible to have linear "micro" games embedded. Can't see it the other way round. Origin sandbox doesn't contains a concept of "storyline" , the most what it offers to someone should be the tools for someone to create an individual story/content.
The other possible idea is to detach the content in phases, like whats happening in having starter areas with linear elements before you join mainland, the "open ending" world so to speak.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
My problem with the NGE was never the starting space station and its line of tutorial quests and then the heritage quests that followed. If they had been integrated with the various theme park quests, Kasshyyk and Mustaphar quests, I still would not have objected.
What I objected to was the counter-intuitive GUI, the pathway landscapes, the compression of the professions and the removal of the hard-earned Alpha class. And so, it seemed, did nearly a quarter of a million others.
What I objected to was the feeble attempt to cram an FPS mechanic into an engine that could barely handle turn-based combat. I also didn't care for most of the parts that were a legacy from the CU; combat levels, oversimplification of skills/abilities, etc.. Then there were all the bugs/problems left over from the pre-CU which were still never corrected/addressed, such as mobs spawning inside geometry, lack of significant content/purpose for Smugglers, droids, etc..
I didn't mind the abolishment of melee and the so-called "hard-earned" Alpha classes. Frankly, in my opinion, that crap never belonged in the game in the first place.
However, that 'crap' was what kept many people in the game and provided a new, enjoyable, longterm progression. Unfortunately some people were too stupid, too envious or too lazy to allow other people to get ahead and enjoy their 'Alpha' class if they themselves didn't have the personal capacities to allow them to unlock one themselves. Those damaged whiners were the ones who finally pursuaded SOE to 'abolish' the game for all of us.
However, that 'crap' was what kept many people in the game and provided a new, enjoyable, longterm progression. Unfortunately some people were too stupid, too envious or too lazy to allow other people to get ahead and enjoy their 'Alpha' class if they themselves didn't have the personal capacities to allow them to unlock one themselves. Those damaged whiners were the ones who finally pursuaded SOE to 'abolish' the game for all of us.
Tell me about it there was no greater Joy for me in SWG then some alpha noob run up to my TKM thinking he was going to show his leetness but he quikly relized that he was not the true alpha class, when he woke up in the cloner with a skill box loss..the tells I used to get were classic and often I still look at them today when I need a laugh(via screen shots)...
However, that 'crap' was what kept many people in the game and provided a new, enjoyable, longterm progression. Unfortunately some people were too stupid, too envious or too lazy to allow other people to get ahead and enjoy their 'Alpha' class if they themselves didn't have the personal capacities to allow them to unlock one themselves. Those damaged whiners were the ones who finally pursuaded SOE to 'abolish' the game for all of us.
What a load of myopic, self-serving rubbish.
Look, an 'alpha' class can NOT exist in a vacuum. Someone MUST play a significantly inferior role (and I don't mean crafters), or otherwise there is no 'alpha' status.
What you're advocating is for EVERYONE to pursue the 'alpha' (which as I recall, was indeed what was happening) if they wanted some semblance of balance. Let's overlook that Jedi have no friggin place in the story's timeline (and please, spare me the "but all Jedi weren't killed in Ep. III" fan fiction nonsense), nor were they bound in any way, shape or form to the "interdependency" that was supposed to be the foundation for the game. If everyone aspired to play an alpha class, then there simply wouldn't BE an alpha class.
The only other alternative would be to implement population caps; only allowing X number of 'alpha' players per server. And frankly, that's just as unacceptable. Why on earth should a game — by design — favor a tiny minority at the EXPENSE of the rest of the playerbase??
An alpha class in a multiplayer game, particularly one dependent on subscriptions, is just outright stupid.
However, that 'crap' was what kept many people in the game and provided a new, enjoyable, longterm progression. Unfortunately some people were too stupid, too envious or too lazy to allow other people to get ahead and enjoy their 'Alpha' class if they themselves didn't have the personal capacities to allow them to unlock one themselves. Those damaged whiners were the ones who finally pursuaded SOE to 'abolish' the game for all of us.
Tell me about it there was no greater Joy for me in SWG then some alpha noob run up to my TKM thinking he was going to show his leetness but he quikly relized that he was not the true alpha class, when he woke up in the cloner with a skill box loss..the tells I used to get were classic and often I still look at them today when I need a laugh(via screen shots)...
You was lucky meeting a jedi adept not knowing his borders but from an finished template (aka full templated) you had to run away quick if you wasn't with gang
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
However, that 'crap' was what kept many people in the game and provided a new, enjoyable, longterm progression. Unfortunately some people were too stupid, too envious or too lazy to allow other people to get ahead and enjoy their 'Alpha' class if they themselves didn't have the personal capacities to allow them to unlock one themselves. Those damaged whiners were the ones who finally pursuaded SOE to 'abolish' the game for all of us.
I'm sorry if it makes you so angry but it's simple and a fact - the vast majority of logterm players in SWG stayed because their effort was rewarded with a Jedi. Perhaps you just didn't have what it took - patience, attention, persistence and resolution - to make the cut. In that case, yes, a game without an Alpha class is probably more your thing. Why not try the Sims Online or FFXI, you'll probably be happier there. Good luck to you.What a load of myopic, self-serving rubbish.
Look, an 'alpha' class can NOT exist in a vacuum. Someone MUST play a significantly inferior role (and I don't mean crafters), or otherwise there is no 'alpha' status.
What you're advocating is for EVERYONE to pursue the 'alpha' (which as I recall, was indeed what was happening) if they wanted some semblance of balance. Let's overlook that Jedi have no friggin place in the story's timeline (and please, spare me the "but all Jedi weren't killed in Ep. III" fan fiction nonsense), nor were they bound in any way, shape or form to the "interdependency" that was supposed to be the foundation for the game. If everyone aspired to play an alpha class, then there simply wouldn't BE an alpha class.
The only other alternative would be to implement population caps; only allowing X number of 'alpha' players per server. And frankly, that's just as unacceptable. Why on earth should a game — by design — favor a tiny minority at the EXPENSE of the rest of the playerbase??
An alpha class in a multiplayer game, particularly one dependent on subscriptions, is just outright stupid.
However, that 'crap' was what kept many people in the game and provided a new, enjoyable, longterm progression. Unfortunately some people were too stupid, too envious or too lazy to allow other people to get ahead and enjoy their 'Alpha' class if they themselves didn't have the personal capacities to allow them to unlock one themselves. Those damaged whiners were the ones who finally pursuaded SOE to 'abolish' the game for all of us.
I'm sorry if it makes you so angry but it's simple and a fact - the vast majority of logterm players in SWG stayed because their effort was rewarded with a Jedi. Perhaps you just didn't have what it took - patience, attention, persistence and resolution - to make the cut. In that case, yes, a game without an Alpha class is probably more your thing. Why not try the Sims Online or FFXI, you'll probably be happier there. Good luck to you.What a load of myopic, self-serving rubbish.
Look, an 'alpha' class can NOT exist in a vacuum. Someone MUST play a significantly inferior role (and I don't mean crafters), or otherwise there is no 'alpha' status.
What you're advocating is for EVERYONE to pursue the 'alpha' (which as I recall, was indeed what was happening) if they wanted some semblance of balance. Let's overlook that Jedi have no friggin place in the story's timeline (and please, spare me the "but all Jedi weren't killed in Ep. III" fan fiction nonsense), nor were they bound in any way, shape or form to the "interdependency" that was supposed to be the foundation for the game. If everyone aspired to play an alpha class, then there simply wouldn't BE an alpha class.
The only other alternative would be to implement population caps; only allowing X number of 'alpha' players per server. And frankly, that's just as unacceptable. Why on earth should a game — by design — favor a tiny minority at the EXPENSE of the rest of the playerbase??
An alpha class in a multiplayer game, particularly one dependent on subscriptions, is just outright stupid.
You forgot the extra character slot which put on at least another six months on top of your subscription payments and thats just grinding the toon
Their effort? Which part took the most patience, attention, persistence and resolution? AFK dancing or chucking borked grenades at lairs?
Here's a fact for ya. I think you're simple and more than a touch bit childish.
But hey, why not host your own Jedi Knight server, give yourself admin god mode, and live out your greatest, self-indulgent alpha class fantasies? You'd probably be happier. And may teh Force be with you, Goku, always!
Apology accepted.
Did I miss something?
As far as I can tell, the MMO is not a SW.
I still hope for medieval-fantasy. Mass Effect was enough sci-fi...and the new project with LA is another sci-fi...leaves the MMO alone. :P
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Ugh! I hope they prove you wrong, because I'm sick and tired of Orc V. Elf fantasy MMO's! The market is saturated and quite frankly it's getting annoying. You want a fantasy MMO? there's tons of em out now. We need a good sci fi MMO out and the few that are out are garbage (except for EvE)
However, that 'crap' was what kept many people in the game and provided a new, enjoyable, longterm progression. Unfortunately some people were too stupid, too envious or too lazy to allow other people to get ahead and enjoy their 'Alpha' class if they themselves didn't have the personal capacities to allow them to unlock one themselves. Those damaged whiners were the ones who finally pursuaded SOE to 'abolish' the game for all of us.
What a load of myopic, self-serving rubbish.
Look, an 'alpha' class can NOT exist in a vacuum. Someone MUST play a significantly inferior role (and I don't mean crafters), or otherwise there is no 'alpha' status.
What you're advocating is for EVERYONE to pursue the 'alpha' (which as I recall, was indeed what was happening) if they wanted some semblance of balance. Let's overlook that Jedi have no friggin place in the story's timeline (and please, spare me the "but all Jedi weren't killed in Ep. III" fan fiction nonsense), nor were they bound in any way, shape or form to the "interdependency" that was supposed to be the foundation for the game. If everyone aspired to play an alpha class, then there simply wouldn't BE an alpha class.
The only other alternative would be to implement population caps; only allowing X number of 'alpha' players per server. And frankly, that's just as unacceptable. Why on earth should a game — by design — favor a tiny minority at the EXPENSE of the rest of the playerbase??
An alpha class in a multiplayer game, particularly one dependent on subscriptions, is just outright stupid.
You have a point. The problems with it though....
Jedi are a huge part of the Star Wars mythos. When you consider how large a part of the Star Wars marketing orbits gently around Jedi, from the books, to the games, to the toys... Jedi had to be a part of any SW MMO. The problem in SWG was how they were implemented.
I still believe an Alpha class can work, but there has to be some segregation of the class involved. Jedi was a forced pvp class and an Alpha class... can you truthfully think of any dumber combination for an MMO? If Jedi and BH had both been segregated from SWG pvp and then balanced against each other, instead of trying to balance all the possible templates? Might have actually been feasible, especially if acquiring BH was similar to the time and effort required to become a Jedi.
Oh... and I did think of something dumber a company could do in a MMO... punish people for teaming like the whole visibility system did. Non GCW faction NPCs should've *never* caused visibility because dead men can't rat you out. In addition players should never be relied on to punish players, create a mechanic involving NPCs/ pve in game for punishment and you remove a lot of the griefing and nerf calls. Use the whole TEF/faction 'scan" mechanic they used towards the end to keep Jedi visibility in major cities to a minimum (because I know some people were hardcore about 'immersion'), add some Jedi faction games to be played out at the Jedi enclaves to remove the rest and it would've sloved a lot of problems.
Overall, I don't think Jedi was a bad idea -in fact, I would label it closer to necessary evil if nothing else- it was just badly implemented.... like so many other things.
...and yeah, I agree. Hasn't fantasy been done to death already? There are so many interesting options to explore for sci-fi, do we really need more elf-on-dark elf action?
Just so everyone knows I'm not a Jedi Hater, I've enjoyed games like Jedi Knight Outcast, hell I still have that game installed. I 'loved' KOTOR 1, not so much KOTOR 2 however KOTOR 1 is one of the best RPG's I've played ever... And this is coming from someone who is an older gamer and remembers the days of Ultima Underworld, a game that is sadly still underrated....
My thing with Jedi was this, not in the GCW timeline and not as an Alpha Class.
As a Star Wars fan, I'm sorry but Jedi just do not belong in the GCW timeline. There really is only two Jedi's, well one after New Hope, 2 Sith Lords and a Boy who could go one way or the other. Putting Jedi in SWG in my eyes has turned the hardcore Star Wars fans away from the game... Also and lets face the facts, we all knew when someone found out 'how' to unlock Jedi or when SOE spoke up about how to unlock it, everyone and their mother would have been working on unlocking it....
As for the Alpha Class, I'm sorry but my time on Ultima Online has shown me one big thing. You just cannot give the Player Base something like that. Yes some did Role Play their Jedi, however I did see others that just went and got it so they can scream "i pwn u noob lol!" As much as all of you say the 14 year old grief kiddies didn't work on getting Jedi, believe me they did... Also the other big thing is Alpha Classes do bring other 'scum' well scum imho into the game... Sorry but when I hear someone tell me "Oh I'm working on Jedi so I can make $500 bucks on ebay." That just doesn't strike me as anything good over all for the game....
Now as for if this ends up being KOTOR-Online, if Jedi is in it... Fine! The timeline allows does allow Jedi's and Dark Jedi's, well Pre-Rule of Two Sith! And really tell the truth, I don't think doing a KOTOR-Online would be a bad thing over all... It would allow a hell of alot more freedom in what to do with the game, SWG well one of my big faults is SOE ignoring the timeline about 90% of the time...
As for it being another Fantasy Title, well we know BioWare is working on Dragon Age. And I wouldn't put it past BioWare trying to get the Forgotten Realms IP back in their hands. Wouldn't be a bad thing really, and I can see them pulling out a really good Forgotten Realms MMORPG... Still I do remember them saying it's a 'Sci-Fi MMO' so my guess is it could be a Mass Effect MMO, KOTOR Online, or a Sci-Fi IP like Battlestar or Firefly.
My guess is we have to wait till E3.
Is there going to be an E3 this year?
Wasnt one last years was there