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Why can't I have my cake and eat it?
Scottc
Member Posts: 680
With the immense number of games like World of Warcraft on the market, there is no cake for me. The PvP servers in these games are not PvP servers at all, they don't encourage players to claim land or towns for their clans and they don't encourage world PvP. Why can't I loot someone on death? Its not hardcore to drop a few items on death, its hardcore to have permadeath. I want my fuckin cake. Asheron's Call Darktide was good cake, and I want more. Hell even EQ had decent PvP cake. You dropped shit when you died.
Comments
http://chronicle.ubi.com/
old,bad graphics,horrible controls (unless you like hotkeying,in which case its fine) but its a great pvp game.Its not buggy anymore either.
Go make yourself a new character,farm loads of loot,resources and dropped armour and then go to the forums and announce where youll be with all your loot in your bags. All the open full looting pvp you could want. Unless of course youre a griefer,in which case you probably wont enjoy being tracked and farmed everytime you gank someone low level and will probably quit.
{Mod Edit}
The quote you were looking for is. "Why can't I eat my cake and have it to."
Of course you can have your cake. ~holds up cake~ and then eat it ~eats cake~
But you can not eat your cake ~eats cake~ and then have it. ~looks at empty cake plate~
End of Class
Aspirant
There is no Absolute Truth or Absolute Reality. That Truth is whatever the majority on hand want it to be. Real Truth is egalitarian and democratic and not at all compelled to correspond to the world in any useful way. Truth has no respect for Right, What's Best, or Needs Must. Real Truth is a dangerous beast in need of caging in even the quietest of times.
Ask any prince or priest.
Real Truth was the First Traitor.
-- Glen Cook
It does NOT take a genius to figure out that this is NOT what most people enjoy. Don't expect any AAA games will cater to your niche preferences.
Well, EQ is a lot less popular than the more casual oriented games, isn't it?
It does NOT take a genius to figure out that this is NOT what most people enjoy. Don't expect any AAA games will cater to your niche preferences.
Well, EQ is a lot less popular than the more casual oriented games, isn't it?
Maybe because EQ is a 9 year old game that have been turned into a stupid casual game by $$$OE during those years?
Now, now scott, temper, temper.
I will attempt to enlighten you from my perspective (take it or leave it) You see WoW set a presadence with the MMO design community. Unfortunately WoW's main audience was pre-existing customers and not mainstream MMO players at the time.
The design community saw the success of WoW and ran with it thinking that the market was wide open. No one used their frickin head and stopped to think "hey, you know...no western MMO has ever had that many subscribers...whats up with that millions number?" Nope, they all figured that the MMO market was busting open and the new age of grind games was on.
The reality was this: WoW is a market onto itself. MMOs released since have had lackluster success no matter how good they are. The MMORPG gaming community is not that large. A successful, solid title can expect at best 150 -200k subs. BUT since they all banked on copying WoW we got ourselves a big ol' sh*t sandwich of new MMO's for now.
If you want the good old days, you are going to have to go back to the old games. There are some games that are worth a look. EVE is probably your best choice. I'm not sure if you can loot on Vanguards PvP server but the game is a wreck and I would not recommend it.
Other then that its back to EQ or AC, maybe L2 but they even softened that up so drops are very rare.
So sit back and enjoy another "kill 10 rats" and just do what the nice NPC says to do just like everyone else. Conform. There IS safety in the herd. The NPC's will take care of you. No one likes an upstart and freedom of action and the resulting consequences is over rated, let the game decide for you what right and wrong to do. Geez
there's wurmonline. on the wild server you have full territory control, full item drop on death, and skill loss on death.
but just like a real player controled world(RPG world that is) that allows those things the real point isn't combat, you'll spend most of your time crafting so you can survive in the world comfortably. townbuilding, every item is player made, very little magic.
edit/PS. it's still has some of a INDY feel, but the only way you're going to get what you want is by actually supporting that type of gameplay. I don't give a shit about forum warriors and hardcories, and I know developers that can get good sized checks don't as well.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
You just don't get it. World of Warcraft is not an MMORPG. You haven't played a real MMORPG, your crappy game stole my and countless other players genre, its turned into something thats far from what it used to be. It'd be like if Real Time Strategy games suddenly died out because they were all turning into savage-like games, but without the option of becoming a commander. Or better yet if first person shooters suddenly stopped allowing you to aim freely and required you to click on a target and press a button and watch the target get attacked. These newer games are not MMORPGs. They are a de-evolution of the genre. Its the dumbing down of games on an epic scale.
You may want to check out PotBS. I'm having a great time. Real death penalties. pvp looting. Taking over islands. It does have and oldschool feel to it.
But it is a strategy RPG hybrid, which my not be for everyone. And there is a low population for the moment. And there are issues like with any new MMO, but that doesn't stop me and a bunch of others from having a great MMO time.
I was waiting for AoC and WAR but I have found the game for me as long as it stays alive.
Well no perma death. If you want full looting and eventual perma death you are going to have to play a MUD.
I tried the PotBS beta, it was alright. I never really got into the PvP unfortunately, as it seems you need to grind quite a bit to compete. Although unfortunately when I sailed into PvP zones at a low level, I didn't see any fighting going on anyway.
I beta-tested for UO & EQ. I also played EQ since its release for a few years. WOW is much much better (in fun factor, in less stress/frustration) than both of those gamse. UO is a PK-fest with very little fun. EQ is better with more PvE focus but it is a camp-fest. WOW fixes both of these problems.
I am mightily glad that WOW to come along and changed the MMORPG's landscape. If you don't like it ... too bad ... keep on bitching and moaning here and see where it gets you. Meanwhile, me and 10M others will be enjoying a casual MMORPG.
The clock won't be turned back. All companies know that either a) they make a niche game, or b) they have to cater to the casuals. If you don't like it, you don't have to play games. There are plenty of other forms of entertainment.
BTW, they *did* make FPS easier. For example, auto-regen health and no more health packs. There are also aiming help. It makes the genre BETTER because players don't have to practice hours before finishing up a level. It is a GOOD thing.
I tried the PotBS beta, it was alright. I never really got into the PvP unfortunately, as it seems you need to grind quite a bit to compete. Although unfortunately when I sailed into PvP zones at a low level, I didn't see any fighting going on anyway.
To have a chance in pvp you need to be lvl 50 and grouped at this point. There is some pvp to be had right now but most people are not lvl 50 yet. It 2 months I’m thinking there will be full blown pvp.
So yes there will be grinding to get to 50.
If you want full-on combat with no grinding check out a FPS like Team Fortress 2. TF2 is a great time.
You can't be enlightened Scottc, with an attitude like yours it'll be like trying to communicate with a rock. People play what they want and insulting them doesn't make them any more likely to flock to games that have the features you're looking for.
I tried the PotBS beta, it was alright. I never really got into the PvP unfortunately, as it seems you need to grind quite a bit to compete. Although unfortunately when I sailed into PvP zones at a low level, I didn't see any fighting going on anyway.
Face it DARKFALL is just a niche PvP game that very few people will like [assuming it actually ever came out or works which i doubt].
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
You can, technically "have your cake and eat it", HOWEVER, the real term is "You can't eat your cake and have it too." It's used as a way of saying that if you eat it, you'll no longer be able to have it, thus you can't have several dozens of types of enjoyment out of one thing, each that contradict the thing, only having one type.
I think the OP is looking for a game where can eat his cake and have mine too. Open PvP with corpse looting is probably a lot less popular request than you believe it to be. The issue is that only a small handful of people like the same kind of cake as you, so there is no financial motivation for anyone to make you that cake. You can have the same kind of cake as the rest of us, and I'll hold on to my slice thank you very much.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
I'm kinda glad forum hardcories are so finicky, picky, nieve, and spoiled.
that means games that are actually a player controled world actually stay reletivly close to their envisionment instead of becoming gank fests of boredom.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
The cake is a lie.
Yet another wah wah wah, I want PvP grief mechanics. Go play FPS games, alot of em have it so guys drop their guns when they die... although they didn't work hard to get em.
Plenty of MUDs have what you are looking for Scottc, minus the graphics.
I used to play a MUD with full looting and eventual perma death, best online time I have ever had. When I would pvp fight my hands would shake it was so intense. I have never had that experience with any other game.
If you have never MUD’d before, just get your self zmud, and check out mud connector. You will be good to go.
If I wasn’t having fun with, PotBS, CoX, Orange Box, and Civ 4 I would be MUDing.
Because including looting from corpses and the person who's corpses it was losing the items causes fear of having good things in PvP. This pretty much causes the Runescape syndrome where you see everyone running around naked because they don't want to lose any expensive items. You crap your pants when you die, so "dropping shit when you die" is fairly logical, if not maybe the best feature in a game.
If the dinosaurs could have made Forum posts after the Yucatan asteroid hit, they would have sounded much like this one.
You can't turn back the clock. Complaining about 'the good old days' won't bring them back. Adapt or go extinct.
And all this is not WoW's fault. Hardcore PvP MMORPGs never attracted significant numbers of gamers outside of wacky Koreans. If Blizzard had not been the ones to decide to finally make a MMORPG that appealed to players outside of the tiny niche market, then some other company would have.
Hardcore pvp with item loss upon death was never popular with the general mainstream player base. Back then UO had full player looting in the wilderness (if you attempt to loot someone's corpse while in town the town guards will whoop your ass). Also note back there there are only a few choices of MMOs to play so people either play UO or other less hardcore games available (The Realm, Meridian 59) during that time or not play at all. Also note that the general market for mmo games nowadays tend to be for casual players who do not have time to re-acquire items once items were lost in pvp. On the other hand warhammer online will feature player corpse looting only that the items will be generated on the corpse of the player by the server like a npc loot and the player will have no item loss upon pvp death.
I agree.. I used to play a Diku style MUD back in 1992 called "Rites of Passage" (no longer running). There's full corpse looting, free for all pvp, with minimal pvp protection (you're only protected from pvp in 1 room in the entire game), you can pvp in town and is a good vs evil side style pvp (altho your own side can backstab you as well which tends to promote a community where people with "bad attitudes" are disciplined by their own side's players). Death results in XP loss (from pk or npk) and all items must be recovered from the corpse and other players (your side or others) can loot your corpse (if they desire to do so with complete anonymity -- altho community at those times tend to be close knit and people tends to honor other people's corpses and turn the goods to their owners). It's super hardcore pvp and we had a lot of fun but that was back when we got plenty of time to play (we're all in high school then). Nowadays a lot of the old timer hardcore players will be reaching their mid 30s or 40s with families of their own and jobs and less time to spare for such hardcore style of gameplay. New younger players on the other hand will probably be exposed to the so called "carebear" style of game play (minimal loss/casual playstyle), there's nothing wrong with that as each person has their own preferance. But face it, the days of hardcore pvps and gaming style are long gone, most games nowadays are geared for the casual/softcore/mid-hardcore style of gameplay which is what the market trend wants.