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Let's see what the DF community does to me!
So I just posted this:
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?p=1181950#post1181950
On the official Darkfall community forums.
It's a cleaned up-a-bit version of a blog post I did here.
I really want to see what the Darkfall community says.
So I'm going to make a poll for you DF fans/haters here:
Comments
probably flame you and then ban you.
Just to say tho in eve people do more than just talk about Corp V Corp you do get many Corps forming deliberate [informal] friendships for mutual protection and/or Trading/production alliances.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Noooo, you punched holes all over in the game to end all games... yeeeeaaahhh. This game is gonna go down in flames... if it even makes it far enough to be set on fire.
They'll delete your post and act if it never existed.
Some of what you said are very good points, then you had a few parts were it was more or less an attack.
result will be getting flamed lol
as for me I will attack and kill noob and vet alike after I establish myself to a degree, its not really cowardice on my part but more of a bloodlust and will hopefully draw out those anti pk factions.
In my opinion DF is not a good choice of a game for the lone wolf type player that never wants to join a group/guild ect.
Fun Factor is what makes or breaks a game, if its not fun just play something else.
Well so far 60 views and no replies.
Either I've:
A) Stumped them
C) The thread is already locked lol
D) No one has bothered to read the whole thing!
Honestly, I try to make sense of the argument from many different perspectives, all while trying to remain objective...
It's hard to be objective when it comes to gankers/griefers because I honestly see no reason to do so except for a complete lack of courage and true skill.
Or maybe its just apathy.
Come on, I bet you didn't even read my post! Play nice!
After reading it, I have to say that I don't think you will get the response you are expecting. If I know the Darkfall community at all, they will almost unanimously agree with your post and stand behind it, even if they won't all say it.
"Freedom to kill who you want" is more about killing people who piss you off or get in your way than about killing helpless, innocent newbies. I agree completely with what you were saying.
Well, I am a member of those forums and I don't have sufficient priveleges to respond to it where you posted.
I read your post. FFA PVP is fun and it seems like you're against it because you're afraid the world will slip into chaos or you'll get ganked. But what you're missing is that FFAPVP adds a huge sense of immersion to the game. I could go on, but I think many of my points will be lost on you (not an insult, it just seems like you have a totally different play style and you can't appreciate what you don't know.)
- Phos
Honestly man.. I read about the first 2 lines of your post about gankers/griefers. Listen closely now.. yes there are those people.. No, not everyone who likes FFA Full loot pvp is one of those players. Now to the point..
90% of all MMOs out on the market are catered to people who do NOT like FFA Full Loot PvP. I'm not hating on you, it's just that your arguement is absurd. Even if its just a handful of people who want this style of game, let us have it. You don't like it? Good. Won't miss ya.
You do know that most attempts at trolling are getting deleted in almost every game forums, right?
I wouldn't call this a troll. A lame opinion maybe, but not a troll.
You posted in the Newb Forums, that the devs created to save all newbs from the burning flames of the DF community. The vets can't even read or see your post, much less respond. I had to log out to view it.
And I don't really care enough about your opinion enough to read more than one short paragraph, so you post did not get read.
Read before making comments. You have a lesser chance of looking foolish.
Interesting read, your points are valid in most sense. Some haters and fans will disagree, thats why we have forums and opinions. I did enjoy reading it, and specially the part about griefers being in the minority as they are in most PVP games and definately they can ruin it, I watched it during the beta of Fury with premade clan groups destroying new players due to the matchmaking system.
Hard core pvp'rs are a different group and have been wanting a game suitable for them for some time. Thats why the majority by large plays the so called carebear games. They dont have time or dont want to put in the effort to pvp. And obviously companies go were the most money is hehe.
Kudos on your thoughts and opinions overall, and to the poster that said the word Troll, im wondering if he/she even knows what a troll is.
Playing: Not much actively.
Games played: to many to list, been playing MMO's since 2001
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Dont think they'll flame u, your opinions are far from trollish and they are well put out. Just one objection though, ganking is when u r outlvled, maybe outnumbered in a long shot, but being ambushed? cmon that's strategy, the other guy thinks of a way to maximize the surprise element, not just mindlessly engage cause u just dont have a chance....
As Phos already said.. the DF community cant read or write in this section of the forum, it is for Darkfall newcomer, the Welcome Forum. So dont expect to get a lot of responses, nor flames.
But the point is even, almost all of the df community would agree with the most part of your arguements.
But would maybe also say, that to have a political, economic, free world ruled and based upon Guilds/Clans you need a complete FFA environment, factional setup games will always end to be static and boring in the long run, with out any politic and almost always without a real economy.
Also your arguement about full loot is absolutely correct, but DF offers exactly this, and it will also add another component to the clan warefare, another tactical point to it, the need of logistic, and it will healthen the economy, and help the crafters.
About the skill system.. i personally would argue against, it is not just another path to do the same thing, with a skill based system you will first of all able to be whatever you want, and another point is, that you can easier hide what level someone is, how strong he is, and what kind of character it is(a really important point in a ffa world), and the difference between different levels(skills) have to be not as high, and this is also easier in a skill based system.
And one note at the end. Of course solo players, especially newcomber(noobs) will have it hard, and they may get frustrated really fast, but it isnt really avoidable if you want such a breathing living world. The have to be informed, and prepared as good as possible, but in the end it is up to them, to adapt, and get part of the world and one or another clan. And some players are also able to live the hard life of a lonewolf, but it will really not easy at all, but can be satisfying. That is also the point why a lot of oldtime ffa players say to such a game hardcore, because, you need at least some duration and patience to come into it, and dont be scared away in the very beginning, but if you come into it, it is more satisfying then everything else. And the truth is, the majority will not have this duration and patience, and will be scared away. But well.. a ffa pvp game is not a product for the masses, it is after all a niche product, even if this niche may be quite huge.
Look at it as a response from a DF community member.
Or to protect the "Vets" from reality. They even turned off PM's a while back so no one can PM their forum members.
Have not read the whole thread but just wanted to reply to the OPs origonal post.
First thing is i have never played fully on a pvp game other than getting a Ranger to level 10 on Everquest many moons ago so i am no vet or not even a noob lol. But to me if i am going to play a pvp game i want it to be just that. I want to play a game that is wrought with danger. If i bump into a player twice my level/skill and he attacks me then it's my fault for getting caught. If i get ambushed by a gang then i expect to die. he reason for these things is i remember playing wow and attacking a horde warrior that had just finished a mob of and was at 75% health. i beat him with my hunter. he then logged of and logged on another char and proceeded to tell me what a coward i was and how i should have waited untill he was at full health before i attacked him. i apologised to him but told him i was a RP'er and used my wits and skills to take him down and if he ever gave me the oppurtunity again i would do the same. he sent me numerous tells after that, that in the end i just ignored because i realised we were on a different level. My point is i play mmorpgs! even if they are pvp they are still mmorpgs! the rpg means, role play game! i am playing a hunter or a ranger and my skills are generaly set up for ambush. why was i a griefer for using those skills and playing in the context of the game i was in?
If i dont want pvp i will play a pve game. if i want pvp i will play a pvp game and expect it to be harsh, if not then theres no point. if i want only fair 1 v1 games i will just play vf5 or something lol.
i can see it now world war 2 a german soldier standing in front of an english soldier and saying " hang on a min chap, im new here and your obviously a harrdened vet! let me go and practise a bit then ill come back and well fight when it's fair" haha keep pvp harsh. by all means stop all the corpse camping and stuff but dont stop unfair fights! thats what makes it feel dangerous.
Or to protect the "Vets" from reality. They even turned off PM's a while back so no one can PM their forum members.
Yea because you was spamming people
Cant respond on Darkfall "newbie" forum you wrote in. As a vet you dont have access to it. I suggest you make same thread in the general one after you get access.
I agree with alot you say and the community you play in and the friends you make and the guild/clan you choose to join is important. UO pretrammel which is the game closest to Darkfall was also a game where solo play was a difficult but thrilling way to play the game. It was your skill against the other guy. Sometimes it was you and the other guys. And ganks is a part of all these games and nothing to be afraid of since reequipping will be fast.
I also agree with you on the the lame griefing of new players with no chance to defend themself. Its only cowards that kill defenseless players. The ones with no "honor" whatsoever. Im pretty sure the developers of Darkfall have training possibilities in the main cities where the new players can develop their skills under a fairly safe envirement. Or join a clan. The funfactor is so much higher with large guild/ clanfights.
Lastly, the immaturity isnt any bigger on the Darkfall forum then it is here. And i guess you will get some flames for that but i will look forward to see your good thread under the general one.
I liked the post. But i cant reply on the official DF forum.
But one thing im a bit worried about: soem players mix up FFA PvP with griefing, ganking and noob killing. And yes we see that alot in.....WoW. In a FFA PvP MMO without classes and levels, there are no noobs. A new character can kill of a veteran character. In example woW, you have NO chance of defending yourself from a high level character. And that seems to be ok? But be able to defend.....thats not ok??
The carebear mind is truly puzzling.
Great read, wich mimics my feelings about PvP almost completely.
I doubt they will delete and ban you, in fact it is if anything something they could use in their marketing.
Eloguently put, posting feelings pretty much every "real" FFA PvP player agrees with.
And mind you, I am not one of them, I play FPS or RTS games for my "skill-ofs".
Much like I do not play sports against paraplectics, even though the elite would probably beat me silly there is NO joy or feeling of accomplishment in defeating an inferior opponent.
People who do have either have such severy inferiority complexs' modern medicine would be hard pressed to cure them.
Great read, again.
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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Before that, it was full of people who did anything they wanted to. It was much harder to increase your skills, there weren't Pk's running rampant. It was very hard to survive as a murderer unless you had a bunch of friends willing to help you if you got into some trouble. Sure, there were some opportunistic people around, killing you if they thought they would get away with it, but if you were half intelligent, you could mostly avoid any problematic situations like that. You could macro day and night if you wanted to, no one could enter your house, you were safe. There were still guilds warring. However, there were a lot of people who were the innocents, but without them.. you don't have a very balanced game. Some were guilded, some werent. If you create a game and advertise that it is a PvP full loot game with generic items, people think Ultima. However, Ultima didn't advertise that way. They made the pitch that it was more like a Sims high fantasy game, where you can do anything. You could craft, build houses and castles, decorate them, armor, weapons, furniture, harvesting, fighting, etc. You could do anything you wanted to, with any skill, group with anyone, kill anyone, tame animals, ride animals, etc. That is what attracts the players that you need to fill in the gap. Just having a server full of Pk'ers is just a FFA PvP. Ultima was a FFA Sim.
Also, I wanted to mention that I never had a guild. Had multiple 5-6x gms and I rarely ever got killed. Not by big guild Pk's and not by your individual opportunistic player. I was feared and respected. I played within the system and had almost no problems, I went anywhere and did anything I wanted to. You are wrong by making it sound like a world full of Pk greifers that prey on the innocent bystander.
The game was ruined by the mirror world, not by the community.