I know that i am not the only mmorpg genre fan , feeling this way.
But i am genuinely getting sick and tired. As poster above me said : It would be all good , if at least they tried to make gameplay fun. But they are not even trying.
Instead the game is about spamming the same set of skills in exact same sequence against exactly the same enemies (with worse AI of any other game type) , and repeating this 10.000 times x 10 for each level.
And this is nothing AOC or WAR will change.
I will still buy both of this games and play them for duration of complementary month. Just so i dont feel i wasted all these years debating over them. But I expect them to be the same all *** in bit different package , with just a bit more instancing added over their predecessors
Lobo, I used to feel like you did. But more and more as I play EVE I find myself anticipating the new games less and less. Not sure I even care if AOC is released, I'll buy it so my 15 year old son can play. After a few slow months of Empire mission running, I joined a new corporation about 10 days ago, who suddenly joined a new, major alliance in 0.0 and we're all frantically mustering our gear and making ready for a jump back to the real fun part of EVE. I'm all excited once again, but much better prepared. When I first went out to 0.0, I had about 3 months training and could only tackle and rat drones. I soon learned to fly stealth bombers but that was pretty much all the action I saw before returning to empire for a variety of reasons. (computer hardware failures, had to do some Research, and my old corp was in the wrong time zone for me) Now I come back able to fly Sniping Battleships, man Deathstar guns, fly Heavy assault Cruisers, Interceptors, Recon and other ships, and this time, I promise, some folks are going to feel a lot of hurt when they attack us. Suddenly, its like a whole new game, and I control my own destiny. Its really a great feeling, and I'm happy the way its worked out. But also a word of caution, EVE isn't a game where you can easily control the flow of fun. There are just some months that sort of blow, and you have to ride them out and set in place plans that will let you have more fun down the road. More like real life I'm afraid, and not always full of fun 24/7.
I've only really played Eve and Warcraft and a little Lineage 2. One of my greatest memories in those MMOs was the month before the Curse Alliance in Eve fell apart. Every day lots of SA and friends had ships and fleets all around curse and curse guys could barely move about, a few fleets formed here and there and engagements were won and lost. Finally curse fell apart cause the pvp'ers got mad at the miners. Those were the greatest days i've had in any mmo, and I was a member of the curse alliance. Although I think most of us curse believe even though we kind of lost that we were and still are superior people relative to our attackers. The non consensual pvp that made it suck at time makes me look back on how awesome it was.
Instances, Battlegrounds, Faction grinds, no death penalty, you can't have that cool stuff happen if you have these things. Most of the time I look back on playing wow it involves me riding around azshara mining thorium for some strange reason. I am the type though that preemptivly mutes teamspeak before first boss kills cause to me it's a bunch of cromags cheering about figuring out how to beat a computer.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You? if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it. Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
Originally posted by Kyleran Lobo, I used to feel like you did. But more and more as I play EVE I find myself anticipating the new games less and less. Not sure I even care if AOC is released, I'll buy it so my 15 year old son can play. After a few slow months of Empire mission running, I joined a new corporation about 10 days ago, who suddenly joined a new, major alliance in 0.0 and we're all frantically mustering our gear and making ready for a jump back to the real fun part of EVE. I'm all excited once again, but much better prepared. When I first went out to 0.0, I had about 3 months training and could only tackle and rat drones. I soon learned to fly stealth bombers but that was pretty much all the action I saw before returning to empire for a variety of reasons. (computer hardware failures, had to do some Research, and my old corp was in the wrong time zone for me) Now I come back able to fly Sniping Battleships, man Deathstar guns, fly Heavy assault Cruisers, Interceptors, Recon and other ships, and this time, I promise, some folks are going to feel a lot of hurt when they attack us. Suddenly, its like a whole new game, and I control my own destiny. Its really a great feeling, and I'm happy the way its worked out. But also a word of caution, EVE isn't a game where you can easily control the flow of fun. There are just some months that sort of blow, and you have to ride them out and set in place plans that will let you have more fun down the road. More like real life I'm afraid, and not always full of fun 24/7.
That's why I have fallen madly in love with EVE. It has given me the same feeling and excitement you have as well. There is nothing the in the MMO world like EVE. It is a game in which players themselves can control their own destiny and in terms of what they become and what they do. The universe and it's major events and conflicts are totally player driven. Sure there is a rather large hill to climb to get past the n00b portions of EVE but once you reach the crest of that hill it's all smooth sailing from there on IMHO. As for Empire vs 0.0 in EVE..well Empire is nice because you don't have to look over your back but 0.0 is better because you do have to look over your back.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
I lost my interest in MMO's ... there I said it.... Since 2004 I am regular member of this forums. I played and tried everything , and i followed and took part ( community wise ) in most of MMOs in development. I seen this form of gaming blossom and vain. And waited and waited and waited for the MMO messiah to come... but all what i seen was chain of disapointments. I am sure many of you feel this way... And now 2008 , on the edge of final release of AOC and WAR it hits me... This games are nothing like what 2004 mmo fan expected 2008 mmo would be
Where is the sandbox ? Where is community ? Where is roleplay ? Where is massive seamless world ? It is replaced by Instanced , battleground , grind , linear , limited , l337.
The new word is not community , group , simulation , open ended ... no The new word is how to bring singleplayer experience into multiplayer game.
But why do i need that ? Singleplayer RPG's allready give me that in better way. Minus grind and minus sub... Lack of content hidden by mandatory grind and raid...i am getting bored
Couple this with having no more than 10 hours to play weekly. When it seems to me that MMO design is targeted at population that has time and time on their hands...students, unemployed, stay home mom's.
Where is the world for us , the working class ?
And how about community ? From one side we have the PVP crowd - that for some unfortunate reason draws (among others) emotionally chalenged , social misfits - that find the MMO to be sole medium of exercising their frustration and hate. And on the otherside the PVE crowd - that for some reason attracts stay home mom and dad , emo poets and people that confuse MMOs with My Space ... And me ... for all my non-perfection , my visit to MMO community made me worse - bitter ...
And to make all this worse. Is there anything on horizon that will change MMOs for better ?
AOC ? WAR ? ... Aion ? Just a same ol'grind
Sandbox is abandoned concept. Virtual world is abandoned concept.
The mmo of the future are singleplayer games in multiplayer enviroment with added grind ...
I had enough ....
Amen brother
companies and devs dont listen and continue to shove this crap on us but until we stand up and stop buying these games even to try out of desperation and stop going back to whats out there just because theres nothing else to play nothing is gonna change
You are not alone... The evolution of MMOs has really stagnated since WOW took off. Its almost like we've experienced a mass extinction event and an evolutionary bottleneck Entire branches of the MMO genre have died off while others have scrambled to conform. There have been some advances since the early days, but these have been negated (IMHO) by the loss of other features, depth, and content. We're seeing what happens when a form of entertainment caters ENTIRELY to the mainstream. Everything must now be polished (which is the one good point) but it must also be ridiculously shallow, easy to understand, and convenient. Personally, I have little to no hope or expectations for this next crop of MMOs, which is OK since Im fairly busy with RL right now. But, maybe we'll see something interesting in the next few years as the "we're notWOW" MMOs start making their way to the shelves.
That's current science applied to gaming now - conform to the status quo, and damn if you question the Establishment!
I actually prefer SP gaming to online gaming, because I don't have to deal with the crap from 15 year-old sociopaths (especially the $5,000 bought PvP axe tankers). I'd play a MMO every once in a while when the game selection looks dull, only to find myself sick of not only the grinding level based concept, but the item stores where anyone can buy stuff to level quicker or gain better equipment.
Love to play Eve, but it had not only unethical management, it's a game designed for who-the-most-pays-wins. Other MMOs push grouping/joining guilds, when I prefer to play a game for a personal challenge, not let someone else cover weaknesses. If I get killed in a SP game, I get killed because something I missed, or not equipped to handle -- no one else to blame but myself. Come online, it's no longer about poor preparation or oversight making me lose, it's because some store bought wimp thinks it's fun to not only kill you in a city, without a weapon -- even from behind!
Then on top of all of that misery is games that if you don't bind items or pick them up within a certain time (i.e., if you're a farmer planting), you will lose it all. Doesn't matter if their server crashes, or if a main pipe of a major ISP goes down. The game devs are never responsible for such stupid conditions. So you wasted an hour of your life or more, so they can sit smug (and/or their minions of paid supporters trashing you on their forum, because you're damn frustrated in losing RL time over something beyond your control, and state so on their playground of a forum).
Like to like MMOs, as much as I liked early gaming. But if any two-bit dev can make and market a MMO and can be as sociopathic as the players they can attract, it'll be very difficult for me to play this genre more than a passing interest. Heck, can't even mod the game to change ridiculious looking graphics, even!
I agree. But I'm so tired of it that I don't even want to talk about it much anymore. I've waited for years, the future looks very dim. There are a few possibilities (Darkfall, Earthrise, Earth Eternal maybe, probably one or two more), but we'll have to wait and see. But the big money isn't going to give us anything different. I'm about tapped out on the whole thing.
Oh, I haven't bought a new game since City of Heroes. Beta'd LoTR, too much instancing and grind. Keep watching, keep waiting. But I'm not buying another one of the same lousy experience.
add: don't mean to be an ass on this, but you are a regular poster here and it strikes me - just empty your head of this genre for a while, go learn to play the guitar or something, and when you come back you'll find all sorts of entertainment will be there to be had.
I agree. But I'm so tired of it that I don't even want to talk about it much anymore. I've waited for years, the future looks very dim. There are a few possibilities (Darkfall, Earthrise, Earth Eternal maybe, probably one or two more), but we'll have to wait and see. But the big money isn't going to give us anything different. I'm about tapped out on the whole thing.
Oh, I haven't bought a new game since City of Heroes. Beta'd LoTR, too much instancing and grind. Keep watching, keep waiting. But I'm not buying another one of the same lousy experience.
if you don't want to talk about it anymore, why are you on this forum talking about it?
add: as per last post, this came across wrong - what I mean is, if you are that tired, just give it a break for a while. These things are so much more fun after a breather. If you are tapped out, use it - change hobbies... this will be here when you come back, promise, and you'll enjoy it all the more.
Originally posted by Kyleran Lobo, I used to feel like you did. But more and more as I play EVE I find myself anticipating the new games less and less. Not sure I even care if AOC is released, I'll buy it so my 15 year old son can play. After a few slow months of Empire mission running, I joined a new corporation about 10 days ago, who suddenly joined a new, major alliance in 0.0 and we're all frantically mustering our gear and making ready for a jump back to the real fun part of EVE. I'm all excited once again, but much better prepared. When I first went out to 0.0, I had about 3 months training and could only tackle and rat drones. I soon learned to fly stealth bombers but that was pretty much all the action I saw before returning to empire for a variety of reasons. (computer hardware failures, had to do some Research, and my old corp was in the wrong time zone for me) Now I come back able to fly Sniping Battleships, man Deathstar guns, fly Heavy assault Cruisers, Interceptors, Recon and other ships, and this time, I promise, some folks are going to feel a lot of hurt when they attack us. Suddenly, its like a whole new game, and I control my own destiny. Its really a great feeling, and I'm happy the way its worked out. But also a word of caution, EVE isn't a game where you can easily control the flow of fun. There are just some months that sort of blow, and you have to ride them out and set in place plans that will let you have more fun down the road. More like real life I'm afraid, and not always full of fun 24/7.
I wish I could fly all those ships bro. I'm so immersed in this game its freaky. Like I'm living another life. Every death is terrible but real.
glad I listened to the eve players and gave the game a try. Now got a few others to play as well. Spread the word to all the ends of the galaxy! um, yeah better login for a min to get my fix....
Originally posted by GreenChaos In MUDs were they have always been. Shame on anyone who though MMOs were the next step for MUDs. They never had the pvp, roleplay and community MUDs have and they never will.
Yeppers.
Most extensive worlds; with mindblowing storylines and quests; adult PvP (not a place for kids and women who like to be alchemists!); shops and crafting that could put nearly all the MMOs together of their goods in ONE MUD game (plus offer your own names and descriptions of what you crafted). It's all in the MUDs, just kids can't stand reading a book, and need eye candy to fight and show off their epics.
It's a shame that a MUD couldn't be made into a MMO, despite MUDs have very tight communities and all the OP craves, even today.
Looking at the numbers, WoW more than doubled the genre. So it's safe to guess that half of the current MMO players on the planet today were introduced to MMOs with WoW. WoW is fast, intuitive, plays smooth and is not demanding on the hardware.
So eventually somebody is going to introduce sandbox elements, more role-playing elements, more dynamic of a world, and at the same time bring along all the good points of WoW. They will not get sidetracked by silly goals like visual realism resulting in an unplayable product (vanguard) and they will not create an MMO that has less customization, character uniqueness, and interesting pvp than WoW (lotro). But they will get everything that this new population of players enjoy and then add the virtual world to it.
I lost my interest in MMO's ... ... Where is the sandbox ? Where is community ? Where is roleplay ? Where is massive seamless world ? It is replaced by Instanced , battleground , grind , linear , limited , l337. ... Couple this with having no more than 10 hours to play weekly. When it seems to me that MMO design is targeted at population that has time and time on their hands...students, unemployed, stay home mom's.
Where is the world for us , the working class ? ...
While I pretty much agree with your overall sentiment I believe there's something strange about your post. You rightly complain that current days MMOs are all about instances, battlegrounds, linear, limited and not about community and roleplaying anymore. Fully agree with you here.
But then you complain about the games not "casual" enough - while most of the above things, i.e. instances, battlegrounds, linear, limited have just been introduced into the genre to make it more appealing for the casual players. Compared to games pre-WoW current games are super-casual in fact where someone with max. 10 hours playtime per week can easily get to maximum level and can just jump into the action the second he logs on without "wasting" time to look for groups, to wait for the respawn of a boss mob, to talk to other players (shudder), to roleplay (more shudder).
Making games appealing to casual players (and the RTS-ers, and the FPS-ers, and the kids) is just the reason that MMOs are so stale these days. In the old day MMOs basically attracted a somewhat nerdy crowd (and a game with more than 100k subs would be considered a huge success) and the game companies did their best to broaden the appeal of MMOs. That's why the games currently are what they are.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Couple this with having no more than 10 hours to play weekly. When it seems to me that MMO design is targeted at population that has time and time on their hands...students, unemployed, stay home mom's.
once it was and games were great, now it is surly aiming at casuals like u and games suck.
u just have 10hrs a week? ok stick with SinglePlayer RPG there is some great stuff out there and with ur limited playtime u can have fun for month with em.
Originally posted by dawn3000 once it was and games were great, now it is surly aiming at casuals like u and games suck. u just have 10hrs a week? ok stick with SinglePlayer RPG there is some great stuff out there and with ur limited playtime u can have fun for month with em.
It don't work like that dawn, because working people are the ones helping the MMOs stay afloat. Got to have money to pay, and money doesn't grow on trees. So yes, the casual gamer is here to stay, and will be the main audience -- if a MMO that charges $$ a month is going to remain afloat.
If you want solid roleplaying and the hardcore RPG lifestyle, MUDs still exist (and 10x better than MMOs for content and community). Just MUDs aren't for kids -- average aged player there is in their mid 30s, and they're ultra strict with rules.
I lost my interest in MMO's ... there I said it.... Since 2004 I am regular member of this forums. I played and tried everything , and i followed and took part ( community wise ) in most of MMOs in development. I seen this form of gaming blossom and vain. And waited and waited and waited for the MMO messiah to come... but all what i seen was chain of disapointments. I am sure many of you feel this way... And now 2008 , on the edge of final release of AOC and WAR it hits me... This games are nothing like what 2004 mmo fan expected 2008 mmo would be
Where is the sandbox ? Where is community ? Where is roleplay ? Where is massive seamless world ? It is replaced by Instanced , battleground , grind , linear , limited , l337.
The new word is not community , group , simulation , open ended ... no The new word is how to bring singleplayer experience into multiplayer game.
But why do i need that ? Singleplayer RPG's allready give me that in better way. Minus grind and minus sub... Lack of content hidden by mandatory grind and raid...i am getting bored
Couple this with having no more than 10 hours to play weekly. When it seems to me that MMO design is targeted at population that has time and time on their hands...students, unemployed, stay home mom's.
Where is the world for us , the working class ?
And how about community ? From one side we have the PVP crowd - that for some unfortunate reason draws (among others) emotionally chalenged , social misfits - that find the MMO to be sole medium of exercising their frustration and hate. And on the otherside the PVE crowd - that for some reason attracts stay home mom and dad , emo poets and people that confuse MMOs with My Space ... And me ... for all my non-perfection , my visit to MMO community made me worse - bitter ...
And to make all this worse. Is there anything on horizon that will change MMOs for better ?
AOC ? WAR ? ... Aion ? Just a same ol'grind
Sandbox is abandoned concept. Virtual world is abandoned concept.
The mmo of the future are singleplayer games in multiplayer enviroment with added grind ...
I had enough ....
Maybe take a break , 6 months do some other stuff read some good books etc ?. I always have a break from Mmo's / games when I get a little jaded with stuff . I think out of WAR AoC and Aion that AoC will be the most promising and I am most certainly lookin forward to it ...... anyways Lobo I hope you dont think I'm being patronizing in anyway just a thought is all
I've been around since the beginning and I still feel this is all the fault of the original carebears. Had they not gotten OSI to change Ultima Online's game design with their incessant whining- Ultima Online would have continued to grow over the years. This would have caused there to be at least two very distinct and very different styles of MMOs today.
Instead every older title was dealing with a split community, trying to segregate populations, basically shooting their business in the foot by never saying: "This is what we're going to be." They were always trying to be everything, ended up being nothing- and then WoW and the battlenet crowd came along and basically WTFPWNED all the weak.
So if some of you from those UO boards back in 98' are reading this right now, thanks a lot you jerks.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
Originally posted by dawn3000 once it was and games were great, now it is surly aiming at casuals like u and games suck. u just have 10hrs a week? ok stick with SinglePlayer RPG there is some great stuff out there and with ur limited playtime u can have fun for month with em.
It don't work like that dawn, because working people are the ones helping the MMOs stay afloat. Got to have money to pay, and money doesn't grow on trees. So yes, the casual gamer is here to stay, and will be the main audience -- if a MMO that charges $$ a month is going to remain afloat.
If you want solid roleplaying and the hardcore RPG lifestyle, MUDs still exist (and 10x better than MMOs for content and community). Just MUDs aren't for kids -- average aged player there is in their mid 30s, and they're ultra strict with rules.
actually i think MMORPGs are the cheapest gaming genre. 15$ a month is nothing if u compare it to the time u spend in em. u can beat almost every single player game in 2weeks and will never touch it again. online oriented FPS and RTS force u to buy add-on every 6month... i played l2 for 2 years and it was the time i spend the least money for gaiming didnt even have to upgrade hardware. since i quitted last year i bought 4 games and had to buy new GPU. the money argument doesnt count imo.
so i think that the hardcore crowd keeps mmorpgs afloat they play em for years have mostly several accounts and keep the community alive.
casuals hop in for 2month beat the game and are never seen again.
Lobo, I used to feel like you did. But more and more as I play EVE I find myself anticipating the new games less and less. Not sure I even care if AOC is released, I'll buy it so my 15 year old son can play.
After a few slow months of Empire mission running, I joined a new corporation about 10 days ago, who suddenly joined a new, major alliance in 0.0 and we're all frantically mustering our gear and making ready for a jump back to the real fun part of EVE.
I'm all excited once again, but much better prepared. When I first went out to 0.0, I had about 3 months training and could only tackle and rat drones. I soon learned to fly stealth bombers but that was pretty much all the action I saw before returning to empire for a variety of reasons. (computer hardware failures, had to do some Research, and my old corp was in the wrong time zone for me)
Now I come back able to fly Sniping Battleships, man Deathstar guns, fly Heavy assault Cruisers, Interceptors, Recon and other ships, and this time, I promise, some folks are going to feel a lot of hurt when they attack us.
Suddenly, its like a whole new game, and I control my own destiny. Its really a great feeling, and I'm happy the way its worked out.
But also a word of caution, EVE isn't a game where you can easily control the flow of fun. There are just some months that sort of blow, and you have to ride them out and set in place plans that will let you have more fun down the road. More like real life I'm afraid, and not always full of fun 24/7.
I wish I could fly all those ships bro. I'm so immersed in this game its freaky. Like I'm living another life. Every death is terrible but real.
glad I listened to the eve players and gave the game a try. Now got a few others to play as well. Spread the word to all the ends of the galaxy! um, yeah better login for a min to get my fix....
You and I actually started playing EVE about the same time I think Vaj, I've got 10 months in now, and I will confess, part of the variety of ships I have is due to fact I started a 2nd account a month later, also pvp spec'd, so he could follow a slightly different skill training path.
So one character can fly the smaller ships like covert ops, stealth bombers, force recon, and ceptors, which are all missile boats that enabled me to develop excellent shield skills that let the same character act as my primary PVE cash earner as he flys Battlecruisers (Drake) and Battleships (Raven) very well. So he serves a dual role, small ship/ewar specialist , large PVE Battleships/Cruisers for making cash.
But as we all know, missile boats are never the most optimal in pvp, especially in fleet actions when you have primary being called and 50 or more people shoot the target at the same time. The beam/projectile weapon folks kill the ship long before your missiles get there, especially when sniping from 150km +
So my second character took a different path. He trained up all manner of projectile guns, and despite being caldari trained up Minmitar ships so he can fly HAC's (Vagabond), and within 13 more days will have Tech 2 guns on a Sniper Battleship. He also can fly Tech 1 Sniper Rokhs, (Caldari track) but I switched over to Mim because I wanted to fly the nano-HAC.
But, back to the subject. To anyone who feels they are truly tired of MMORPG games (and especially if you have never given a sandbox game a trial) come try EVE for a few months (15 days won't be enough). What have you got to lose? You might find some new excitement in your gaming future. And no, you don't need a humanoid avatar jumping around in a station to have fun, trust me on this, time to change your thinking and broaden your horizons. No one really thinks you are really an elf, so it doesn't matter what the avatar really is. In fact, its actually easier to visualize yourself as the pilot of a pod than a female dwarf IMO.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Problem is people getting the wrong idea of the casual player! i'm a casual player and i dont want the game to be easy to level! i want it more difficult, to last longer to be a challenge. i play casual only a few hours a time at most. but do i want to be able to come on and jump straight into a fight? no not really, i want an adventure. thats why i play mmorg'g. do i want to solo all the time? no, but i want to be able to if i need to or if i dont have much time.
Why can't i go through the same dungeon a group can? i dont care if it takes me 5 times as long to get the same reward, that's my choice. i can group if i want and get it faster. but if i dont have a group i want to be able to struggle through slowly, like Everquest used to be maybe!
Casual does not mean players who want to level up to max level in little time. Hell whoever said mmorg's were about levelling? that's why there is low level content, to play it. bring back games where max level seems unreachable.
Yep. You forgot to add players who have played these games for 10-15 YEARS and who still keep playing today having returned to MUDs after forays into graphical MMOs. Sorry about the blatant promotion of the genre here, but just have a look at these to get an idea:
Originally posted by GreenChaos In MUDs were they have always been. Shame on anyone who though MMOs were the next step for MUDs. They never had the pvp, roleplay and community MUDs have and they never will.
Yeppers.
Most extensive worlds; with mindblowing storylines and quests; adult PvP (not a place for kids and women who like to be alchemists!); shops and crafting that could put nearly all the MMOs together of their goods in ONE MUD game (plus offer your own names and descriptions of what you crafted). It's all in the MUDs, just kids can't stand reading a book, and need eye candy to fight and show off their epics.
It's a shame that a MUD couldn't be made into a MMO, despite MUDs have very tight communities and all the OP craves, even today.
I agree. But I'm so tired of it that I don't even want to talk about it much anymore. I've waited for years, the future looks very dim. There are a few possibilities (Darkfall, Earthrise, Earth Eternal maybe, probably one or two more), but we'll have to wait and see. But the big money isn't going to give us anything different. I'm about tapped out on the whole thing.
Oh, I haven't bought a new game since City of Heroes. Beta'd LoTR, too much instancing and grind. Keep watching, keep waiting. But I'm not buying another one of the same lousy experience.
if you don't want to talk about it anymore, why are you on this forum talking about it?
You wasted your time posting that just to show everyone you're a smart ass?
"I don't even want to talk about it much anymore."
If I wanted to really talk about it, you'd still be reading.
Comments
You people pretty much nail it on the head.
I know that i am not the only mmorpg genre fan , feeling this way.
But i am genuinely getting sick and tired. As poster above me said : It would be all good , if at least they tried to make gameplay fun. But they are not even trying.
Instead the game is about spamming the same set of skills in exact same sequence against exactly the same enemies (with worse AI of any other game type) , and repeating this 10.000 times x 10 for each level.
And this is nothing AOC or WAR will change.
I will still buy both of this games and play them for duration of complementary month. Just so i dont feel i wasted all these years debating over them. But I expect them to be the same all *** in bit different package , with just a bit more instancing added over their predecessors
My 1st MMO was WoW. Everything else seemed to me 2nd rate untill i played LOTRO. I dont play any right now due to wife and previous mmo addiction.
Im just waiting for WAR due to x-treme wife aggro! LOL
Played : WOW, LOTRO, COH/COV, EQ2, SWG, and WAR.
Playing EVE Online and AOC.
Wtg for SW:TOR and WOD
Instances, Battlegrounds, Faction grinds, no death penalty, you can't have that cool stuff happen if you have these things. Most of the time I look back on playing wow it involves me riding around azshara mining thorium for some strange reason. I am the type though that preemptivly mutes teamspeak before first boss kills cause to me it's a bunch of cromags cheering about figuring out how to beat a computer.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it.
Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro
if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
That's why I have fallen madly in love with EVE. It has given me the same feeling and excitement you have as well. There is nothing the in the MMO world like EVE. It is a game in which players themselves can control their own destiny and in terms of what they become and what they do. The universe and it's major events and conflicts are totally player driven. Sure there is a rather large hill to climb to get past the n00b portions of EVE but once you reach the crest of that hill it's all smooth sailing from there on IMHO. As for Empire vs 0.0 in EVE..well Empire is nice because you don't have to look over your back but 0.0 is better because you do have to look over your back.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
companies and devs dont listen and continue to shove this crap on us but until we stand up and stop buying these games even to try out of desperation and stop going back to whats out there just because theres nothing else to play nothing is gonna change
That's current science applied to gaming now - conform to the status quo, and damn if you question the Establishment!
I actually prefer SP gaming to online gaming, because I don't have to deal with the crap from 15 year-old sociopaths (especially the $5,000 bought PvP axe tankers). I'd play a MMO every once in a while when the game selection looks dull, only to find myself sick of not only the grinding level based concept, but the item stores where anyone can buy stuff to level quicker or gain better equipment.
Love to play Eve, but it had not only unethical management, it's a game designed for who-the-most-pays-wins. Other MMOs push grouping/joining guilds, when I prefer to play a game for a personal challenge, not let someone else cover weaknesses. If I get killed in a SP game, I get killed because something I missed, or not equipped to handle -- no one else to blame but myself. Come online, it's no longer about poor preparation or oversight making me lose, it's because some store bought wimp thinks it's fun to not only kill you in a city, without a weapon -- even from behind!
Then on top of all of that misery is games that if you don't bind items or pick them up within a certain time (i.e., if you're a farmer planting), you will lose it all. Doesn't matter if their server crashes, or if a main pipe of a major ISP goes down. The game devs are never responsible for such stupid conditions. So you wasted an hour of your life or more, so they can sit smug (and/or their minions of paid supporters trashing you on their forum, because you're damn frustrated in losing RL time over something beyond your control, and state so on their playground of a forum).
Like to like MMOs, as much as I liked early gaming. But if any two-bit dev can make and market a MMO and can be as sociopathic as the players they can attract, it'll be very difficult for me to play this genre more than a passing interest. Heck, can't even mod the game to change ridiculious looking graphics, even!
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
I agree. But I'm so tired of it that I don't even want to talk about it much anymore. I've waited for years, the future looks very dim. There are a few possibilities (Darkfall, Earthrise, Earth Eternal maybe, probably one or two more), but we'll have to wait and see. But the big money isn't going to give us anything different. I'm about tapped out on the whole thing.
Oh, I haven't bought a new game since City of Heroes. Beta'd LoTR, too much instancing and grind. Keep watching, keep waiting. But I'm not buying another one of the same lousy experience.
Once upon a time....
so... go do something else then
add: don't mean to be an ass on this, but you are a regular poster here and it strikes me - just empty your head of this genre for a while, go learn to play the guitar or something, and when you come back you'll find all sorts of entertainment will be there to be had.
a watched kettle never boils.
if you don't want to talk about it anymore, why are you on this forum talking about it?
add: as per last post, this came across wrong - what I mean is, if you are that tired, just give it a break for a while. These things are so much more fun after a breather. If you are tapped out, use it - change hobbies... this will be here when you come back, promise, and you'll enjoy it all the more.
I wish I could fly all those ships bro. I'm so immersed in this game its freaky. Like I'm living another life. Every death is terrible but real.
glad I listened to the eve players and gave the game a try. Now got a few others to play as well. Spread the word to all the ends of the galaxy! um, yeah better login for a min to get my fix....
darkfall/earthrise or bust =(
Remember Old School Ultima Online
Yeppers.
Most extensive worlds; with mindblowing storylines and quests; adult PvP (not a place for kids and women who like to be alchemists!); shops and crafting that could put nearly all the MMOs together of their goods in ONE MUD game (plus offer your own names and descriptions of what you crafted). It's all in the MUDs, just kids can't stand reading a book, and need eye candy to fight and show off their epics.
It's a shame that a MUD couldn't be made into a MMO, despite MUDs have very tight communities and all the OP craves, even today.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Looking at the numbers, WoW more than doubled the genre. So it's safe to guess that half of the current MMO players on the planet today were introduced to MMOs with WoW. WoW is fast, intuitive, plays smooth and is not demanding on the hardware.
So eventually somebody is going to introduce sandbox elements, more role-playing elements, more dynamic of a world, and at the same time bring along all the good points of WoW. They will not get sidetracked by silly goals like visual realism resulting in an unplayable product (vanguard) and they will not create an MMO that has less customization, character uniqueness, and interesting pvp than WoW (lotro). But they will get everything that this new population of players enjoy and then add the virtual world to it.
It just hasn't happened yet.
and also; maybe they really prepared for it ... no one wants play a junk MMO right?
But then you complain about the games not "casual" enough - while most of the above things, i.e. instances, battlegrounds, linear, limited have just been introduced into the genre to make it more appealing for the casual players. Compared to games pre-WoW current games are super-casual in fact where someone with max. 10 hours playtime per week can easily get to maximum level and can just jump into the action the second he logs on without "wasting" time to look for groups, to wait for the respawn of a boss mob, to talk to other players (shudder), to roleplay (more shudder).
Making games appealing to casual players (and the RTS-ers, and the FPS-ers, and the kids) is just the reason that MMOs are so stale these days. In the old day MMOs basically attracted a somewhat nerdy crowd (and a game with more than 100k subs would be considered a huge success) and the game companies did their best to broaden the appeal of MMOs. That's why the games currently are what they are.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
once it was and games were great, now it is surly aiming at casuals like u and games suck.
u just have 10hrs a week? ok stick with SinglePlayer RPG there is some great stuff out there and with ur limited playtime u can have fun for month with em.
It don't work like that dawn, because working people are the ones helping the MMOs stay afloat. Got to have money to pay, and money doesn't grow on trees. So yes, the casual gamer is here to stay, and will be the main audience -- if a MMO that charges $$ a month is going to remain afloat.
If you want solid roleplaying and the hardcore RPG lifestyle, MUDs still exist (and 10x better than MMOs for content and community). Just MUDs aren't for kids -- average aged player there is in their mid 30s, and they're ultra strict with rules.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Maybe take a break , 6 months do some other stuff read some good books etc ?. I always have a break from Mmo's / games when I get a little jaded with stuff . I think out of WAR AoC and Aion that AoC will be the most promising and I am most certainly lookin forward to it ...... anyways Lobo I hope you dont think I'm being patronizing in anyway just a thought is all
I've been around since the beginning and I still feel this is all the fault of the original carebears. Had they not gotten OSI to change Ultima Online's game design with their incessant whining- Ultima Online would have continued to grow over the years. This would have caused there to be at least two very distinct and very different styles of MMOs today.
Instead every older title was dealing with a split community, trying to segregate populations, basically shooting their business in the foot by never saying: "This is what we're going to be." They were always trying to be everything, ended up being nothing- and then WoW and the battlenet crowd came along and basically WTFPWNED all the weak.
So if some of you from those UO boards back in 98' are reading this right now, thanks a lot you jerks.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
It don't work like that dawn, because working people are the ones helping the MMOs stay afloat. Got to have money to pay, and money doesn't grow on trees. So yes, the casual gamer is here to stay, and will be the main audience -- if a MMO that charges $$ a month is going to remain afloat.
If you want solid roleplaying and the hardcore RPG lifestyle, MUDs still exist (and 10x better than MMOs for content and community). Just MUDs aren't for kids -- average aged player there is in their mid 30s, and they're ultra strict with rules.
actually i think MMORPGs are the cheapest gaming genre. 15$ a month is nothing if u compare it to the time u spend in em. u can beat almost every single player game in 2weeks and will never touch it again. online oriented FPS and RTS force u to buy add-on every 6month...
i played l2 for 2 years and it was the time i spend the least money for gaiming didnt even have to upgrade hardware. since i quitted last year i bought 4 games and had to buy new GPU. the money argument doesnt count imo.
so i think that the hardcore crowd keeps mmorpgs afloat they play em for years have mostly several accounts and keep the community alive.
casuals hop in for 2month beat the game and are never seen again.
I have to agree, that which I thought would be inspiring in the future is almost upon us and it's the same old crap repackaged and tarted up a bit.
I wish I could fly all those ships bro. I'm so immersed in this game its freaky. Like I'm living another life. Every death is terrible but real.
glad I listened to the eve players and gave the game a try. Now got a few others to play as well. Spread the word to all the ends of the galaxy! um, yeah better login for a min to get my fix....
You and I actually started playing EVE about the same time I think Vaj, I've got 10 months in now, and I will confess, part of the variety of ships I have is due to fact I started a 2nd account a month later, also pvp spec'd, so he could follow a slightly different skill training path.
So one character can fly the smaller ships like covert ops, stealth bombers, force recon, and ceptors, which are all missile boats that enabled me to develop excellent shield skills that let the same character act as my primary PVE cash earner as he flys Battlecruisers (Drake) and Battleships (Raven) very well. So he serves a dual role, small ship/ewar specialist , large PVE Battleships/Cruisers for making cash.
But as we all know, missile boats are never the most optimal in pvp, especially in fleet actions when you have primary being called and 50 or more people shoot the target at the same time. The beam/projectile weapon folks kill the ship long before your missiles get there, especially when sniping from 150km +
So my second character took a different path. He trained up all manner of projectile guns, and despite being caldari trained up Minmitar ships so he can fly HAC's (Vagabond), and within 13 more days will have Tech 2 guns on a Sniper Battleship. He also can fly Tech 1 Sniper Rokhs, (Caldari track) but I switched over to Mim because I wanted to fly the nano-HAC.
But, back to the subject. To anyone who feels they are truly tired of MMORPG games (and especially if you have never given a sandbox game a trial) come try EVE for a few months (15 days won't be enough). What have you got to lose? You might find some new excitement in your gaming future. And no, you don't need a humanoid avatar jumping around in a station to have fun, trust me on this, time to change your thinking and broaden your horizons. No one really thinks you are really an elf, so it doesn't matter what the avatar really is. In fact, its actually easier to visualize yourself as the pilot of a pod than a female dwarf IMO.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Problem is people getting the wrong idea of the casual player! i'm a casual player and i dont want the game to be easy to level! i want it more difficult, to last longer to be a challenge. i play casual only a few hours a time at most. but do i want to be able to come on and jump straight into a fight? no not really, i want an adventure. thats why i play mmorg'g. do i want to solo all the time? no, but i want to be able to if i need to or if i dont have much time.
Why can't i go through the same dungeon a group can? i dont care if it takes me 5 times as long to get the same reward, that's my choice. i can group if i want and get it faster. but if i dont have a group i want to be able to struggle through slowly, like Everquest used to be maybe!
Casual does not mean players who want to level up to max level in little time. Hell whoever said mmorg's were about levelling? that's why there is low level content, to play it. bring back games where max level seems unreachable.
Why MUD?
Mudconnector
Yeppers.
Most extensive worlds; with mindblowing storylines and quests; adult PvP (not a place for kids and women who like to be alchemists!); shops and crafting that could put nearly all the MMOs together of their goods in ONE MUD game (plus offer your own names and descriptions of what you crafted). It's all in the MUDs, just kids can't stand reading a book, and need eye candy to fight and show off their epics.
It's a shame that a MUD couldn't be made into a MMO, despite MUDs have very tight communities and all the OP craves, even today.
if you don't want to talk about it anymore, why are you on this forum talking about it?
You wasted your time posting that just to show everyone you're a smart ass?"I don't even want to talk about it much anymore."
If I wanted to really talk about it, you'd still be reading.
Once upon a time....