I think it is extremely clever of Turbine to remain as closely linked to World of Warcraft as they can.
It has worked well for them so far and I think that for the first expansion it is another safe bet to try to emulate what World of Warcraft did but with slight (very slight) differences. It is never a shame to go after the market leader, I mean that's where the subscribers are, not in the niche markets.
Two new Classes to mimic the two new Races (and all classes shared now) in Burning Crusade.
10 new levels to mimic the 10 new levels in Burning Crusade.
New gaming area, but in the proud Lord of the Rings tradition, only Middle Earth areas that can be a staging ground for violence and conflict is really depicted, the rest is left (not important to the lore apparently). Also, they have apparently elected to remain faithful to their vision of maintaining the smallest AAA game world to make it accessible for young players as well - a hostile mob is never further away than an arrow's flight!
Legendary item system to mimic Slotting in Burning Crusade. World of Warcraft has a system for making items better and Lord of the Rings wisely choses to follow. Good move! Perhaps this will allow character differentiation? Definately a new direction for Turbine where you would normally know exactly how a given character performed based solely on their level and class!
And ofcourse, Mines of Moria will have several instance dungeons for various group sizes, just like Outlands in Burning Crusade. So far we haven't heard if Heroic (or something similar) is in the pipeline, only time will tell!
I can't wait!
Yes game expansion in one fantasy themed MMO has similarities with expansion in another fantasy themed MMO. I cannot say that surprises me but I see little similarities above the basic concept of the expansion. Personal opinion though.
I think it is extremely clever of Turbine to remain as closely linked to World of Warcraft as they can.
It has worked well for them so far and I think that for the first expansion it is another safe bet to try to emulate what World of Warcraft did but with slight (very slight) differences. It is never a shame to go after the market leader, I mean that's where the subscribers are, not in the niche markets.
Two new Classes to mimic the two new Races (and all classes shared now) in Burning Crusade.
10 new levels to mimic the 10 new levels in Burning Crusade.
New gaming area, but in the proud Lord of the Rings tradition, only Middle Earth areas that can be a staging ground for violence and conflict is really depicted, the rest is left (not important to the lore apparently). Also, they have apparently elected to remain faithful to their vision of maintaining the smallest AAA game world to make it accessible for young players as well - a hostile mob is never further away than an arrow's flight!
Legendary item system to mimic Slotting in Burning Crusade. World of Warcraft has a system for making items better and Lord of the Rings wisely choses to follow. Good move! Perhaps this will allow character differentiation? Definately a new direction for Turbine where you would normally know exactly how a given character performed based solely on their level and class!
And ofcourse, Mines of Moria will have several instance dungeons for various group sizes, just like Outlands in Burning Crusade. So far we haven't heard if Heroic (or something similar) is in the pipeline, only time will tell!
I can't wait!
And does WOW offer free content patches about every 3 months, with new areas etc. ... I think not. And you seem like a WOW fanbois, so why are you on the lotro forums?
I think it is extremely clever of Turbine to remain as closely linked to World of Warcraft as they can.
It has worked well for them so far and I think that for the first expansion it is another safe bet to try to emulate what World of Warcraft did but with slight (very slight) differences. It is never a shame to go after the market leader, I mean that's where the subscribers are, not in the niche markets.
Two new Classes to mimic the two new Races (and all classes shared now) in Burning Crusade.
10 new levels to mimic the 10 new levels in Burning Crusade.
New gaming area, but in the proud Lord of the Rings tradition, only Middle Earth areas that can be a staging ground for violence and conflict is really depicted, the rest is left (not important to the lore apparently). Also, they have apparently elected to remain faithful to their vision of maintaining the smallest AAA game world to make it accessible for young players as well - a hostile mob is never further away than an arrow's flight!
Legendary item system to mimic Slotting in Burning Crusade. World of Warcraft has a system for making items better and Lord of the Rings wisely choses to follow. Good move! Perhaps this will allow character differentiation? Definately a new direction for Turbine where you would normally know exactly how a given character performed based solely on their level and class!
And ofcourse, Mines of Moria will have several instance dungeons for various group sizes, just like Outlands in Burning Crusade. So far we haven't heard if Heroic (or something similar) is in the pipeline, only time will tell!
I can't wait!
Well clearly, LOTRO is like many products a "Me-too" product. Thats ok and quite common in different industries. The developers will by no chance risk anything to ruin such a "responsible name" Lord of the Rings. They are just going the safe way, watching what is successful copying and fine tuning it. Some "innovations" do exist, e.g. chicken quests
I think it is extremely clever of Turbine to remain as closely linked to World of Warcraft as they can.
It has worked well for them so far and I think that for the first expansion it is another safe bet to try to emulate what World of Warcraft did but with slight (very slight) differences. It is never a shame to go after the market leader, I mean that's where the subscribers are, not in the niche markets.
Two new Classes to mimic the two new Races (and all classes shared now) in Burning Crusade.
10 new levels to mimic the 10 new levels in Burning Crusade.
New gaming area, but in the proud Lord of the Rings tradition, only Middle Earth areas that can be a staging ground for violence and conflict is really depicted, the rest is left (not important to the lore apparently). Also, they have apparently elected to remain faithful to their vision of maintaining the smallest AAA game world to make it accessible for young players as well - a hostile mob is never further away than an arrow's flight!
Legendary item system to mimic Slotting in Burning Crusade. World of Warcraft has a system for making items better and Lord of the Rings wisely choses to follow. Good move! Perhaps this will allow character differentiation? Definately a new direction for Turbine where you would normally know exactly how a given character performed based solely on their level and class!
And ofcourse, Mines of Moria will have several instance dungeons for various group sizes, just like Outlands in Burning Crusade. So far we haven't heard if Heroic (or something similar) is in the pipeline, only time will tell!
I can't wait!
Well clearly, LOTRO is like many products a "Me-too" product. Thats ok and quite common in different industries. The developers will by no chance risk anything to ruin such a "responsible name" Lord of the Rings. They are just going the safe way, watching what is successful copying and fine tuning it. Some "innovations" do exist, e.g. chicken quests
WOW didnt just re-define Fantasy..it IS fantasy now. A game with elfs and orcs and levels and loot is a fantasy game..or a WOW game. They are almost inseperable ATM. try to make one that isnt like WOW and your closed beta will become the WOWification period. see vanguard. Just the way its gonna be. Its hard to make one of any genre that isnt like WOW and be succesful. At least succesful as defined by todays developers. Maybe will get lucky after the next batch.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I think it is extremely clever of Turbine to remain as closely linked to World of Warcraft as they can.
It has worked well for them so far and I think that for the first expansion it is another safe bet to try to emulate what World of Warcraft did but with slight (very slight) differences. It is never a shame to go after the market leader, I mean that's where the subscribers are, not in the niche markets.
Two new Classes to mimic the two new Races (and all classes shared now) in Burning Crusade.
10 new levels to mimic the 10 new levels in Burning Crusade.
New gaming area, but in the proud Lord of the Rings tradition, only Middle Earth areas that can be a staging ground for violence and conflict is really depicted, the rest is left (not important to the lore apparently). Also, they have apparently elected to remain faithful to their vision of maintaining the smallest AAA game world to make it accessible for young players as well - a hostile mob is never further away than an arrow's flight!
Legendary item system to mimic Slotting in Burning Crusade. World of Warcraft has a system for making items better and Lord of the Rings wisely choses to follow. Good move! Perhaps this will allow character differentiation? Definately a new direction for Turbine where you would normally know exactly how a given character performed based solely on their level and class!
And ofcourse, Mines of Moria will have several instance dungeons for various group sizes, just like Outlands in Burning Crusade. So far we haven't heard if Heroic (or something similar) is in the pipeline, only time will tell!
I can't wait!
I think it was extremely clever of Blzzard to stick as closely to EQ as they can with BC. New races, level cap raise, new zones, new raids. It was a smart move on Blizzard's part to follow the tried an true formula that SOE has been using since 1999....
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I think it is extremely clever of Turbine to remain as closely linked to World of Warcraft as they can.
<snip>
I think it was extremely clever of Blzzard to stick as closely to EQ as they can with BC. New races, level cap raise, new zones, new raids. It was a smart move on Blizzard's part to follow the tried an true formula that SOE has been using since 1999....
I think it was extremely clever of the SOE developers to stick as closely to previous online and single-player RPGs. New races, level cap raise, new zones, new raids. It was a smart move on their part to follow the tried and true formula that other developers have been using since a long time...
I think it is extremely clever of Turbine to remain as closely linked to World of Warcraft as they can.
<snip>
I think it was extremely clever of Blzzard to stick as closely to EQ as they can with BC. New races, level cap raise, new zones, new raids. It was a smart move on Blizzard's part to follow the tried an true formula that SOE has been using since 1999....
I think it was extremely clever of the SOE developers to stick as closely to previous online and single-player RPGs. New races, level cap raise, new zones, new raids. It was a smart move on their part to follow the tried and true formula that other developers have been using since a long time...
I think it was extremely clever of the UO developers to stick as closely to previous single-player RPGs. Add the MMO concept was just icing on the cake. It was a smart move on their part to follow the tried and true formula that other developers have been using since a long time...
I think it is extremely clever of Turbine to remain as closely linked to World of Warcraft as they can.
<snip>
I think it was extremely clever of Blzzard to stick as closely to EQ as they can with BC. New races, level cap raise, new zones, new raids. It was a smart move on Blizzard's part to follow the tried an true formula that SOE has been using since 1999....
I think it was extremely clever of the SOE developers to stick as closely to previous online and single-player RPGs. New races, level cap raise, new zones, new raids. It was a smart move on their part to follow the tried and true formula that other developers have been using since a long time...
I think it was extremely clever of the UO developers to stick as closely to previous single-player RPGs. Add the MMO concept was just icing on the cake. It was a smart move on their part to follow the tried and true formula that other developers have been using since a long time...
That was sort of my point guys. Thanks for your show of support I suppose . . .
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I think it is extremely clever of Turbine to remain as closely linked to World of Warcraft as they can.
It has worked well for them so far and I think that for the first expansion it is another safe bet to try to emulate what World of Warcraft did but with slight (very slight) differences. It is never a shame to go after the market leader, I mean that's where the subscribers are, not in the niche markets.
Two new Classes to mimic the two new Races (and all classes shared now) in Burning Crusade. EQ, many DikuMUDS, and online/ offline CRPGs did something like this with expansions/ updates. It's pretty much standard practice in an expansion. To claim that Turbine is doing it "to be like the Burning Crusade" is just silly. 10 new levels to mimic the 10 new levels in Burning Crusade.
EQ, many DikuMUDS, and online/ offline CRPGs did something like this with expansions/ updates. It's pretty much standard practice in an expansion. To claim that Turbine is doing it "to be like the Burning Crusade" is just silly.
Legendary item system to mimic Slotting in Burning Crusade. No actually it's a lot more like the LoTRO trait system then gem slotting. World of Warcraft has a system for making items better and Lord of the Rings wisely choses to follow. It's actually much more extensive than anything WoW has done so far, at least based on previews. Good move! Perhaps this will allow character differentiation? Definately a new direction for Turbine where you would normally know exactly how a given character performed based solely on their level and class! WoW, so I guess I was hallucinating that I boosted the healing output on my LM by 50% using traits, or that my Minstral can't wear leather because he doesn't have the correct trait slotted. I guess every race gets faign death and stealth as their racial abilities.
And ofcourse, Mines of Moria will have several instance dungeons for various group sizes, just like Outlands in Burning Crusade. So far we haven't heard if Heroic (or something similar) is in the pipeline, only time will tell!
EQ, many DikuMUDS, and offline/ offline CRPGs did something like this with expansions/ updates. It's pretty much standard practice in an expansion. To claim that Turbine is doing it "to be like the Burning Crusade" is just silly.
And lets get real, what kind of expansion would it be if it didn't have new zones and dungeons. You were expecting a paid expansion where we keep adventuring in the same zones? Are you high?
I can't wait!
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
To claim that LotRO is copying EQ is a bit of a stretch. It is chronologically released after EQ but EQ is no longer the market leader, nor the major measuring stick of the MMO scene.
My point is that Turbine is continuing along a good venue they have going. They adopt as much as possible from the market leader (closed instance PvP, Reputation Grinds, Armor Sets, PvP Items, first was in at the start, the rest have been added to become more and more like WoW) and then make everything else simple and accessible. It might be a winning formula and since this is their chosen route, I think it is fair to applaud them for not trying to re-invent themselves or deter from the path.
It is not that WoW is original, it is not, they did the same thing, adopted a lot of existing elements and tried to give people what they wanted. You can't blame companies for that.
To claim that LotRO is copying EQ is a bit of a stretch. It is chronologically released after EQ but EQ is no longer the market leader, nor the major measuring stick of the MMO scene.
My point is that Turbine is continuing along a good venue they have going. They adopt as much as possible from the market leader (closed instance PvP, Reputation Grinds, Armor Sets, PvP Items, first was in at the start, the rest have been added to become more and more like WoW) and then make everything else simple and accessible. It might be a winning formula and since this is their chosen route, I think it is fair to applaud them for not trying to re-invent themselves or deter from the path.
It is not that WoW is original, it is not, they did the same thing, adopted a lot of existing elements and tried to give people what they wanted. You can't blame companies for that.
Why do you feel the necessity to try and imply that LotrO is some kind of "WoW Wannabe"? IMHO, LotrO is probably the most polished MMO on the market, with regular FREE content updates, a brilliant and almost flawless release and a strong and prospering community. Obviously LotrO is going to take pages out of the books of other MMOs. WoW did EXACTLY the same thing, dumbed down the playstyle so that it was accessible to everyone and used an engine that runs on even a low end PC.
I think LotrO is a little more involving than WoW. Saying that, it is NO EQ1. I never liked WoW and that was more down to the graphical style which I could never embrace and the very young/immature people who populate the world. Again, you get that in EVERY game but it has always seemed more prevelant in WoW than any of the others. In all fairness, before I moved to an RP server in LotrO, there was a fair few kids/immature adults.
The perception that WoW is somehow the best game going in terms of quality because it has the highest number of subscribers is one of the stupidest assumptions around. Britney Spears sold MILLIONS of albums. Does that mean she is in the same class as Mozart musically? I think not. Good on you if you enjoy WoW but please stop trying to imply that any MMO that came after it owes it any kind of reverance.
To claim that LotRO is copying EQ is a bit of a stretch. It is chronologically released after EQ but EQ is no longer the market leader, nor the major measuring stick of the MMO scene.
My point is that Turbine is continuing along a good venue they have going. They adopt as much as possible from the market leader (closed instance PvP, Reputation Grinds, Armor Sets, PvP Items, first was in at the start, the rest have been added to become more and more like WoW) and then make everything else simple and accessible. It might be a winning formula and since this is their chosen route, I think it is fair to applaud them for not trying to re-invent themselves or deter from the path.
It is not that WoW is original, it is not, they did the same thing, adopted a lot of existing elements and tried to give people what they wanted. You can't blame companies for that.
Thanks for clarifying your point
My point wasn't so much that Turbine is copying EQ, but that a level cap raise, new adventuring areas, and a new class or race is pretty much standard procedure in an expansion for a CRP. Heck if you go back to the old goldbox games, look at the sequal to Pool of Radiance, Curse of the Azure Bonds, that's pretty much what they did. I don't remember any new classes, but they raised the level cap and expanded the adventuring area. Or look at the expansion to the original Diablo. I don't recall that they raised the level cap, but they did expand the adventuring area and add a new class.
I don't think Turbine, or Blizzard for that matter, is really copying anyone when an expansion comes out that has 1. a new class or race, 2. new adventruing areas, and 3. a level cap increase. They are just doing what is expected and obvious.
Ok, now I go off topic . . .
I think you are at least correct that the casual freindly design of modern MMOs (including LOTRO) does owe a lot to Blizzard demonstrating with WoW that "if you build it so that employed and married humans can play it, they will come." Before WoW, MMOs usually had few quests that were worth the trouble of doing (grinding was usually the quickest way to level), and were usually quite hard to solo in for the majority of classes.
My understanding is that AC II was also solo friendly and quest driven, so maybe Turbine would have designed LoTRO exactly the same way whether WoW ever came out or not. But at the very least, the success of WoW probably made it a lot easier for them to secure the funding they needed to keep going on LoTRO (especially since AC II was such a financial disaster).
Rampant speculation follows. . . .
However I think there is more to it than Turbine making a LoTR skinned sequal to AC II. Given certain inconsistencies with early interviews about LoTRO and what we ended up with, I suspect that there were some changes in the direction of development around the time WoW launched. I don't think Turbine really realized how many things they got right with AC II until WoW came out with a lot of the same design elements (right down to a very similar UI) and was a smash hit. And given that AC II completely tanked, how would they have known?
Even more off topic . . .
One thing that's cool about MMOs is that if one company has a really good idea, everyone else can retrofit it in to their existing game. That means an innovation in a game you don't even play might make your game better a few months down the road. For example, having quest givers be marked to stand out from other NPCs was added to EQ (in some areas), EQ II, and DAoC after WoW launched, and all three were the better for it, imo. (Though of course some old school folks that "liked going uphill both ways in the snow" complained about it in each game).
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Rampant speculation follows. . . . However I think there is more to it than Turbine making a LoTR skinned sequal to AC II. Given certain inconsistencies with early interviews about LoTRO and what we ended up with, I suspect that there were some changes in the direction of development around the time WoW launched. I don't think Turbine really realized how many things they got right with AC II until WoW came out with a lot of the same design elements (right down to a very similar UI) and was a smash hit. And given that AC II completely tanked, how would they have known?
Just one thing I want to point out. LOTRO switched companies. Turbine was not the first to start making it. I'm not terribly sure if you are refferring to the ME:O interviews and confusing them for Turbine ones. but I could be compleltly wrong and you have info that I have never seen as well. Just wanted to point it out anyway just in case.
Rampant speculation follows. . . . However I think there is more to it than Turbine making a LoTR skinned sequal to AC II. Given certain inconsistencies with early interviews about LoTRO and what we ended up with, I suspect that there were some changes in the direction of development around the time WoW launched. I don't think Turbine really realized how many things they got right with AC II until WoW came out with a lot of the same design elements (right down to a very similar UI) and was a smash hit. And given that AC II completely tanked, how would they have known?
Just one thing I want to point out. LOTRO switched companies. Turbine was not the first to start making it. I'm not terribly sure if you are refferring to the ME:O interviews and confusing them for Turbine ones. but I could be compleltly wrong and you have info that I have never seen as well. Just wanted to point it out anyway just in case.
Actually I was referring to this preview. Turbine had been developing it for a while at this point, but they were still calling it Middle Earth online at the time:
What I think is particularly intersting about the interview is that some of the elements that they originally planned but dropped are coming back in the Fall expansion. They obviously have some assets for Moria that they had to shelve, and they originally intended for there be a way to customize weapons.
If you read through later previews, you can also see that at some point they had a system where your lineage (e.g., whether your dwarf is from the blue mountains or not) actually affacted your character's traits, and were planning some sort of system where fellowships could compete whith eachother (?!). From a 2005 E3 preview:
Aside from gender, race, and class, you'll be able to select your lineage, which can effect special bonuses on your character and maybe even unlock special skills.
There will be no traditional player-versus-player action in LOTR Online. But the development team is working on a special mode that involves competition between parties, or "fellowships" as they're called in the game.
You are welcome. Thanks for not just taking the easy "Lord of the Rings is Bestest of them all!" approach in answering. I enjoyed reading your post and not having tried Asheron's Call 2 I have no way of commenting on it in a meaningful way. Even more off topic . . . One thing that's cool about MMOs is that if one company has a really good idea, everyone else can retrofit it in to their existing game. That means an innovation in a game you don't even play might make your game better a few months down the road. For example, having quest givers be marked to stand out from other NPCs was added to EQ (in some areas), EQ II, and DAoC after WoW launched, and all three were the better for it, imo. (Though of course some old school folks that "liked going uphill both ways in the snow" complained about it in each game). This is very true. In Lord of the Rings: Online you have the possibility of tracking various elements on your MiniMap, that is now adopted by World of Warcraft. So inspiration is (naturally) going in all directions.
Part of my point is also that people will tire of their chosen MMO. World of Warcraft has more players than any other MMO on the Western market, which means that this is also the obvious source for jaded players who are looking for a new passtime. If you create something that is very similar you are more likely to attract these potential new subscribers. And that's what I think Turbine is doing, and that's what I find that they simply keep doing with their expansion. Like I wrote, you can't really blame Turbine for doing that.
I would be VERY SURPRISED if all future or present players in the MMO development field isn't watching the market leader, which right now is World of Warcraft. If something is a success, why not use it as inspiration?
BTW, nitefly, what game are you currently playing? I would really like to try out the most perfect MMO on the market, and using your current game as the standard, might be worth a try.
Sadly there is no such thing. You have to form your own opinion and ultimately that's also the only thing you can really express on a forum.
I currently beta Age of Conan but I also have open subscriptions for City of Heroes, Dungeons & Dragons Online, World of Warcraft, and EverQuest2. I like games with a big world or with a very involving character development system (preferably both).
I have played quite a lot of Saga of Ryzom due to the fun you can have with the responding world, but lately most of my RL friends and co-players have abandoned that game and that makes it a bit less alluring.
I clock about 7 to 18 hours a week in MMOs. Yeah, I know, that's a lot of subscriptions for very little gaming but I don't mind so neither should anybody else, Hehe.
So when exactly was the last time you played LoTRO?
I currently have an open subscription to WoW. three level 70's, but I have not even logged on for two weeks. Just tired of the same ole, same ole grind for th end game that is a hurry up and wait, rinse and repeat, 100 times. I got all the that in the military to last a lifetime.
And while I have issues with WoW they are not groundbreaking enough to post on their boards, because with all the innovation that Blizzard does do, and the attempts to fix issues, all in all I feel it is a good game. Yet since I have played on a regular basis, I could justify posting on their boards regularly, because I know the state of the game currently.
I guess my question is you have open subscriptions to four different MMO's, yet have the need to post here where you do not have an open subscription. What did LoTRO do to you that made you feel the need to sit the gaming community and LoTRO straight on how they failed? Did you feel mislead on the hype prior to game release? Did someone mislead you into believing you could be the bad guy and defeat Strider and his merry fellowship? Did you believe that game was going to based on a movie, rather than the book (remember the movie left tons of content out)?
I guess I would just like to know why deep down you have issues about a game you don't even play.
So when exactly was the last time you played LoTRO? I currently have an open subscription to WoW. three level 70's, but I have not even logged on for two weeks. Just tired of the same ole, same ole grind for th end game that is a hurry up and wait, rinse and repeat, 100 times. I got all the that in the military to last a lifetime. And while I have issues with WoW they are not groundbreaking enough to post on their boards, because with all the innovation that Blizzard does do, and the attempts to fix issues, all in all I feel it is a good game. Yet since I have played on a regular basis, I could justify posting on their boards regularly, because I know the state of the game currently. I guess my question is you have open subscriptions to four different MMO's, yet have the need to post here where you do not have an open subscription. What did LoTRO do to you that made you feel the need to sit the gaming community and LoTRO straight on how they failed? Did you feel mislead on the hype prior to game release? Did someone mislead you into believing you could be the bad guy and defeat Strider and his merry fellowship? Did you believe that game was going to based on a movie, rather than the book (remember the movie left tons of content out)? I guess I would just like to know why deep down you have issues about a game you don't even play.
Interesting, your top paragraph is precisely how I felt, down to military experience. I stopped logging, left WoW for three months, played it for another three and finally left for good. LOTRO works perfectly for me because it is more casual friendly and has better lore.
So when exactly was the last time you played LoTRO? I currently have an open subscription to WoW. three level 70's, but I have not even logged on for two weeks. Just tired of the same ole, same ole grind for th end game that is a hurry up and wait, rinse and repeat, 100 times. I got all the that in the military to last a lifetime. And while I have issues with WoW they are not groundbreaking enough to post on their boards, because with all the innovation that Blizzard does do, and the attempts to fix issues, all in all I feel it is a good game. Yet since I have played on a regular basis, I could justify posting on their boards regularly, because I know the state of the game currently. I guess my question is you have open subscriptions to four different MMO's, yet have the need to post here where you do not have an open subscription. What did LoTRO do to you that made you feel the need to sit the gaming community and LoTRO straight on how they failed? Did you feel mislead on the hype prior to game release? Did someone mislead you into believing you could be the bad guy and defeat Strider and his merry fellowship? Did you believe that game was going to based on a movie, rather than the book (remember the movie left tons of content out)? I guess I would just like to know why deep down you have issues about a game you don't even play.
My Lord of the Rings: Online subscription ran out (last time) February 13th 2008. I often open my subscriptions for a month in the various games I have played, run the content, and then if something new has happened that kindles my interest it might remain open. Otherwise I just let it die for the time being again.
That it is the above mentioned four that I have open at the moment is a coincidence.
Comments
Yes game expansion in one fantasy themed MMO has similarities with expansion in another fantasy themed MMO. I cannot say that surprises me but I see little similarities above the basic concept of the expansion. Personal opinion though.
Btw, nobody forces you to buy it or play it.
And does WOW offer free content patches about every 3 months, with new areas etc. ... I think not. And you seem like a WOW fanbois, so why are you on the lotro forums?
Well clearly, LOTRO is like many products a "Me-too" product. Thats ok and quite common in different industries. The developers will by no chance risk anything to ruin such a "responsible name" Lord of the Rings. They are just going the safe way, watching what is successful copying and fine tuning it. Some "innovations" do exist, e.g. chicken quests
Well clearly, LOTRO is like many products a "Me-too" product. Thats ok and quite common in different industries. The developers will by no chance risk anything to ruin such a "responsible name" Lord of the Rings. They are just going the safe way, watching what is successful copying and fine tuning it. Some "innovations" do exist, e.g. chicken quests
WOW didnt just re-define Fantasy..it IS fantasy now. A game with elfs and orcs and levels and loot is a fantasy game..or a WOW game. They are almost inseperable ATM. try to make one that isnt like WOW and your closed beta will become the WOWification period. see vanguard. Just the way its gonna be. Its hard to make one of any genre that isnt like WOW and be succesful. At least succesful as defined by todays developers. Maybe will get lucky after the next batch.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I think it was extremely clever of Blzzard to stick as closely to EQ as they can with BC. New races, level cap raise, new zones, new raids. It was a smart move on Blizzard's part to follow the tried an true formula that SOE has been using since 1999....
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I think it was extremely clever of Blzzard to stick as closely to EQ as they can with BC. New races, level cap raise, new zones, new raids. It was a smart move on Blizzard's part to follow the tried an true formula that SOE has been using since 1999....
I think it was extremely clever of the SOE developers to stick as closely to previous online and single-player RPGs. New races, level cap raise, new zones, new raids. It was a smart move on their part to follow the tried and true formula that other developers have been using since a long time...
I think it was extremely clever of Blzzard to stick as closely to EQ as they can with BC. New races, level cap raise, new zones, new raids. It was a smart move on Blizzard's part to follow the tried an true formula that SOE has been using since 1999....
I think it was extremely clever of the SOE developers to stick as closely to previous online and single-player RPGs. New races, level cap raise, new zones, new raids. It was a smart move on their part to follow the tried and true formula that other developers have been using since a long time...
I think it was extremely clever of the UO developers to stick as closely to previous single-player RPGs. Add the MMO concept was just icing on the cake. It was a smart move on their part to follow the tried and true formula that other developers have been using since a long time...
I think it was extremely clever of Blzzard to stick as closely to EQ as they can with BC. New races, level cap raise, new zones, new raids. It was a smart move on Blizzard's part to follow the tried an true formula that SOE has been using since 1999....
I think it was extremely clever of the SOE developers to stick as closely to previous online and single-player RPGs. New races, level cap raise, new zones, new raids. It was a smart move on their part to follow the tried and true formula that other developers have been using since a long time...
I think it was extremely clever of the UO developers to stick as closely to previous single-player RPGs. Add the MMO concept was just icing on the cake. It was a smart move on their part to follow the tried and true formula that other developers have been using since a long time...
That was sort of my point guys. Thanks for your show of support I suppose . . .
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
To claim that LotRO is copying EQ is a bit of a stretch. It is chronologically released after EQ but EQ is no longer the market leader, nor the major measuring stick of the MMO scene.
My point is that Turbine is continuing along a good venue they have going. They adopt as much as possible from the market leader (closed instance PvP, Reputation Grinds, Armor Sets, PvP Items, first was in at the start, the rest have been added to become more and more like WoW) and then make everything else simple and accessible. It might be a winning formula and since this is their chosen route, I think it is fair to applaud them for not trying to re-invent themselves or deter from the path.
It is not that WoW is original, it is not, they did the same thing, adopted a lot of existing elements and tried to give people what they wanted. You can't blame companies for that.
Why do you feel the necessity to try and imply that LotrO is some kind of "WoW Wannabe"? IMHO, LotrO is probably the most polished MMO on the market, with regular FREE content updates, a brilliant and almost flawless release and a strong and prospering community. Obviously LotrO is going to take pages out of the books of other MMOs. WoW did EXACTLY the same thing, dumbed down the playstyle so that it was accessible to everyone and used an engine that runs on even a low end PC.
I think LotrO is a little more involving than WoW. Saying that, it is NO EQ1. I never liked WoW and that was more down to the graphical style which I could never embrace and the very young/immature people who populate the world. Again, you get that in EVERY game but it has always seemed more prevelant in WoW than any of the others. In all fairness, before I moved to an RP server in LotrO, there was a fair few kids/immature adults.
The perception that WoW is somehow the best game going in terms of quality because it has the highest number of subscribers is one of the stupidest assumptions around. Britney Spears sold MILLIONS of albums. Does that mean she is in the same class as Mozart musically? I think not. Good on you if you enjoy WoW but please stop trying to imply that any MMO that came after it owes it any kind of reverance.
S
Thanks for clarifying your point
My point wasn't so much that Turbine is copying EQ, but that a level cap raise, new adventuring areas, and a new class or race is pretty much standard procedure in an expansion for a CRP. Heck if you go back to the old goldbox games, look at the sequal to Pool of Radiance, Curse of the Azure Bonds, that's pretty much what they did. I don't remember any new classes, but they raised the level cap and expanded the adventuring area. Or look at the expansion to the original Diablo. I don't recall that they raised the level cap, but they did expand the adventuring area and add a new class.
I don't think Turbine, or Blizzard for that matter, is really copying anyone when an expansion comes out that has 1. a new class or race, 2. new adventruing areas, and 3. a level cap increase. They are just doing what is expected and obvious.
Ok, now I go off topic . . .
I think you are at least correct that the casual freindly design of modern MMOs (including LOTRO) does owe a lot to Blizzard demonstrating with WoW that "if you build it so that employed and married humans can play it, they will come." Before WoW, MMOs usually had few quests that were worth the trouble of doing (grinding was usually the quickest way to level), and were usually quite hard to solo in for the majority of classes.
My understanding is that AC II was also solo friendly and quest driven, so maybe Turbine would have designed LoTRO exactly the same way whether WoW ever came out or not. But at the very least, the success of WoW probably made it a lot easier for them to secure the funding they needed to keep going on LoTRO (especially since AC II was such a financial disaster).
Rampant speculation follows. . . .
However I think there is more to it than Turbine making a LoTR skinned sequal to AC II. Given certain inconsistencies with early interviews about LoTRO and what we ended up with, I suspect that there were some changes in the direction of development around the time WoW launched. I don't think Turbine really realized how many things they got right with AC II until WoW came out with a lot of the same design elements (right down to a very similar UI) and was a smash hit. And given that AC II completely tanked, how would they have known?
Even more off topic . . .
One thing that's cool about MMOs is that if one company has a really good idea, everyone else can retrofit it in to their existing game. That means an innovation in a game you don't even play might make your game better a few months down the road. For example, having quest givers be marked to stand out from other NPCs was added to EQ (in some areas), EQ II, and DAoC after WoW launched, and all three were the better for it, imo. (Though of course some old school folks that "liked going uphill both ways in the snow" complained about it in each game).
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Just one thing I want to point out. LOTRO switched companies. Turbine was not the first to start making it. I'm not terribly sure if you are refferring to the ME:O interviews and confusing them for Turbine ones. but I could be compleltly wrong and you have info that I have never seen as well. Just wanted to point it out anyway just in case.
Just one thing I want to point out. LOTRO switched companies. Turbine was not the first to start making it. I'm not terribly sure if you are refferring to the ME:O interviews and confusing them for Turbine ones. but I could be compleltly wrong and you have info that I have never seen as well. Just wanted to point it out anyway just in case.
Actually I was referring to this preview. Turbine had been developing it for a while at this point, but they were still calling it Middle Earth online at the time:ttp://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/middleearthonline/news.html
What I think is particularly intersting about the interview is that some of the elements that they originally planned but dropped are coming back in the Fall expansion. They obviously have some assets for Moria that they had to shelve, and they originally intended for there be a way to customize weapons.
If you read through later previews, you can also see that at some point they had a system where your lineage (e.g., whether your dwarf is from the blue mountains or not) actually affacted your character's traits, and were planning some sort of system where fellowships could compete whith eachother (?!). From a 2005 E3 preview:
Aside from gender, race, and class, you'll be able to select your lineage, which can effect special bonuses on your character and maybe even unlock special skills.
There will be no traditional player-versus-player action in LOTR Online. But the development team is working on a special mode that involves competition between parties, or "fellowships" as they're called in the game.
You can read the whole thing here:
ttp://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/middleearthonline/news.html
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
BTW, nitefly, what game are you currently playing?
I would really like to try out the most perfect MMO on the market, and using your current game as the standard, might be worth a try.
I currently beta Age of Conan but I also have open subscriptions for City of Heroes, Dungeons & Dragons Online, World of Warcraft, and EverQuest2. I like games with a big world or with a very involving character development system (preferably both).
I have played quite a lot of Saga of Ryzom due to the fun you can have with the responding world, but lately most of my RL friends and co-players have abandoned that game and that makes it a bit less alluring.
I clock about 7 to 18 hours a week in MMOs. Yeah, I know, that's a lot of subscriptions for very little gaming but I don't mind so neither should anybody else, Hehe.
So when exactly was the last time you played LoTRO?
I currently have an open subscription to WoW. three level 70's, but I have not even logged on for two weeks. Just tired of the same ole, same ole grind for th end game that is a hurry up and wait, rinse and repeat, 100 times. I got all the that in the military to last a lifetime.
And while I have issues with WoW they are not groundbreaking enough to post on their boards, because with all the innovation that Blizzard does do, and the attempts to fix issues, all in all I feel it is a good game. Yet since I have played on a regular basis, I could justify posting on their boards regularly, because I know the state of the game currently.
I guess my question is you have open subscriptions to four different MMO's, yet have the need to post here where you do not have an open subscription. What did LoTRO do to you that made you feel the need to sit the gaming community and LoTRO straight on how they failed? Did you feel mislead on the hype prior to game release? Did someone mislead you into believing you could be the bad guy and defeat Strider and his merry fellowship? Did you believe that game was going to based on a movie, rather than the book (remember the movie left tons of content out)?
I guess I would just like to know why deep down you have issues about a game you don't even play.
Interesting, your top paragraph is precisely how I felt, down to military experience. I stopped logging, left WoW for three months, played it for another three and finally left for good. LOTRO works perfectly for me because it is more casual friendly and has better lore.
Each to its own.
My Lord of the Rings: Online subscription ran out (last time) February 13th 2008. I often open my subscriptions for a month in the various games I have played, run the content, and then if something new has happened that kindles my interest it might remain open. Otherwise I just let it die for the time being again.
That it is the above mentioned four that I have open at the moment is a coincidence.