I do agree selling unlimited pre-orders and then delaying release is unethical. Profiting off the combination the hype machine and the lack of any decent mmos allows them to get money out of customers who really are just rolling the dice and hoping the game is as good as advertised with limited facts and no product testimonials.
"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." -Edmund Burke
Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?" (Psalm 94:16)
As opposed to what? Selling pre-orders and releasing the product no matter the issues with it, just so as to keep the release date in tact? I'm sure glad that Warhammer got delayed if the developers of said game believed that it could use the extra time. I'm also glad that the AoC developers feel that their game is ready, but an extra delay wouldn't bother me the least.
No-one is forcing you to pre-order. It may come as shocking but if you're not sure about the quality of the game, you better demonstrate some patience and constrain yourself from what amounts to reserving a game box. Since that's what you're basically doing. Since people are entitled to move their pre-order money anywhere they see fit, I don't think they can claim that the have paid anything for any particular game (until they actually receive their copy).
Games are not food. Nothing harmful will happen to you if you don't play this particular game or any game at all. Nothing harmful (well, unless some people have very fragile ego) will happen if somebody starts gaming a couple months later than the release time.
If people feel cheated is because they allowed themselves to be cheated.
Cheated? I personally feel fine. I think Funcom has done a decent job of keeping the fan base informed. I'm just glad they arn't like those tools over at Adventurine. They have cheated their player base.......for years now. ~Hairysun~
I would like to take this opportunity to recant the above post. I quite simply did not know what I was talking about.
That's a non-issue really. They have already announced the open beta months ago. Whether you believe them or not is another matter. In fact, lets scrap the "open beta" since it's totally inaccurate nowadays and call it marketing launch instead.
My concern is whether:
The marketing launch window will be big enough to expose as many people as possible to what the game has to offer at launch, and
They will use a big enough amount of servers to avoid the issues that the tech servers experience during the tech tests.
They are having a semi open beta, and you will be able to find out what you need to know. A horrible game will have people leaking regardless of the NDA. Especially if they bring in tens of thousands of people for some kind of open beta soon. Just relax and let's see what happens. Theres no need to get all worked up.
NDA is still in, no date for open beta. Will it be a lag-feast? Will my computer handle the graphics or do i need to buy a new one? Very little information about the game. Will i be able to try it out before they send my preorder box to me? If the game dont live up to the hype will you as a preordering customer feel cheated? And what negative impact will that have to the MMORPG genre? Is Funcoms treatment of their customers hurting the MMORPG genre? Are Funcom ripping preordering customers of their hard earned money by not delivering enough information?
No, I don't feel cheated. However, I refuse the buy the pre-order because I just don't know enough about the game and I don't have a real good feeling about the state it's going to be in upon release. I really hope the game is amazing, but I'm waiting for some real reviews before I lay down the money.
All this drama about Beta and the assumed right to try before you buy...
As has been said before, there is no implicit right to try a game before you buy it. Why the new generation of gamers think there is is beyond me... When you fancy a going to see a movie do you get to see the first 30mins of it to make sure it's gonna be good? No, of course not, you pays your moneys and takes your chances with the rest of us. A game is no different... read the info, watch the trailers, talk to the people around you, and make a personal choice.
I have been gaming a few years now, both on consoles from the Atari 2600 and the PC from my beloved Spectrum 48k (taking the term 'PC' in a loose sense that is... hehe), and I would say probably 90% of the games I have played I bought on the back of reviews and recommendations after the game was released.
Some of these games were great, some have been truly horrible, but thats just the way of things in this hobby. I never blamed a lack of Beta for me spending the money, even when the game was junk., even when I was a kid and didnt have any. I never even assumed there should even be a Beta. I just read info and previews, talked to my friends, and took the chance. More often then not it worked out.
Hell, some of my favourite ever games were just bought straight off the games shop shelf, Everquest included, that I had no info about past what was on the back of the box.
Like someone said before me, the OP is just obviously aggreived that he didnt get into Beta and has now taken it as a personal affront and now has a mission to make AoC look bad for whatever reason.
Rumours from NDA breakers mean nothing to me tbh... They have already proven themselves to be liars by breaking an agreed contract, so why would I trust them now?
Have I pre-ordered? Yep. Will I feel ripped off or betrayed if this games dosent happen to be what I want? Nope. Do I feel Funcom have somehow treated it's fanbase badly? Certainly not.
Assuming the OP was actually posting legitimate questions and not trolling, here is the reality --
Whenever a new product enters the market, there will always be early adopters. Early adopters either pay a premium to get this product, suffer through the first round of problems with it, watch as their product becomes defunct or experience some combination of the three. The point is, early adopters have enough money that they don't care about spending it and they derive tremendous satisfaction at being the first on the block to have the new toy. This doesn't matter if it's a new car, a fantastic keyboard with digital images on the keys, an HD-DVD player or an MMO.
If you're pre-ordering a game, you're throwing yourself in with the lot of people who have the money to burn or the fools who think they have the money to burn (yet complain about spending it afterwards or, worse, can't figure out where their money went). No one is twisting your arm to buy the product and there certainly will be professional reviews of the game as well as player reviews once it goes live. A smart consumer will gather information before making such a blind buy, especially with the history of this market.
Strange how some speculate the outcome of the game without the NDA lifted.
Sure some leaked reports do tell tales of certain aspects that might be a problem for the game but honestly is this the trend now that before a game is even launched that so many want to convince others not to even play?
Do I personally feel cheated?..Hell no... for the simple reason I haven't spent a dime on AOC.
It's like a fricken virus on these forums sometimes with players that don't even want anything to succeed.
If a game fails to live up to the hype so what.
If the gaming community would just allow some slack on these new titles. Maybe just maybe something will breakout and be that gem we all eagerly await.
Some of you people either need to relax and breathe or maybe just go get laid.
Its funny how people think that there's not going to be an "open" beta / "marketing" launch / final beta stage / stress test when the game still has about 5 weeks to go. if memory serves me rightly WoW had an open beta that lasted about 1 month. Same for Vanguard. So by my reckoning, we may just hear something in about 1 weeks time.
I didn't read all the posts except the OP.... and I just want to say, they aren't forcing you to pre-order it. Wait and hear what it's like at release if you don't get a chance to 'try' it.
NDA is still in, no date for open beta. Will it be a lag-feast? Will my computer handle the graphics or do i need to buy a new one? Very little information about the game. Will i be able to try it out before they send my preorder box to me? If the game dont live up to the hype will you as a preordering customer feel cheated? And what negative impact will that have to the MMORPG genre? Is Funcoms treatment of their customers hurting the MMORPG genre? Are Funcom ripping preordering customers of their hard earned money by not delivering enough information?
I feel great. Better than ever in fact. Glad I pre-ordered.
OP, how do you feel about your DF pre-order?
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Give a fish a man and he will eat for a month!
NDA is still in, no date for open beta. Will it be a lag-feast? Will my computer handle the graphics or do i need to buy a new one? Very little information about the game. Will i be able to try it out before they send my preorder box to me? If the game dont live up to the hype will you as a preordering customer feel cheated? And what negative impact will that have to the MMORPG genre? Is Funcoms treatment of their customers hurting the MMORPG genre? Are Funcom ripping preordering customers of their hard earned money by not delivering enough information?
I feel great. Better than ever in fact. Glad I pre-ordered.
OP, how do you feel about your DF pre-order?
I'd rather wait another year to play Darkfall than wait 1 day to play a nerfed AoC that clearly isn't ready for launch. The longer that NDA stays up the more it shows how badly this game is progressing.
You would think for a simple, linear, non-innovative game like AoC (which I was really excited about playing until recently) that the kinks might be worked out by now... but nope.
NDA is still in, no date for open beta. Will it be a lag-feast? Will my computer handle the graphics or do i need to buy a new one? Very little information about the game. Will i be able to try it out before they send my preorder box to me? If the game dont live up to the hype will you as a preordering customer feel cheated? And what negative impact will that have to the MMORPG genre? Is Funcoms treatment of their customers hurting the MMORPG genre? Are Funcom ripping preordering customers of their hard earned money by not delivering enough information?
I feel great. Better than ever in fact. Glad I pre-ordered.
OP, how do you feel about your DF pre-order?
I'd rather wait another year to play Darkfall than wait 1 day to play a nerfed AoC that clearly isn't ready for launch. The longer that NDA stays up the more it shows how badly this game is progressing.
You would think for a simple, linear, non-innovative game like AoC (which I was really excited about playing until recently) that the kinks might be worked out by now... but nope.
What you don't understand is they have already stated there will be a form of Open Beta, there will be a large 15,000 player PVP weekend this weekend, and there are tons of places on the web where people are openly breaking the NDA. The problem they have is that they stated to their testers that the test build has a lot of debugging code, and that the performance of the engine should not be compared to one going out at release yet players still flock to the internet to say the performance is weak. The tests that many people are leaking poor information from are stress tests which may be three hours a week and test one specific function of the game, or maybe just some process surrounding the game and the goal is to break the system. So then when it reaches it's limits and breaks the testers go out and complain that it broke...
There is more good things going on surrounding the beta then anyone knows because most of these people won't break the NDA but there are those that are breaking it that weren't people just looking for a free finished game by going into beta.
NDA is still in, no date for open beta. Will it be a lag-feast? Will my computer handle the graphics or do i need to buy a new one? Very little information about the game. Will i be able to try it out before they send my preorder box to me? If the game dont live up to the hype will you as a preordering customer feel cheated? And what negative impact will that have to the MMORPG genre? Is Funcoms treatment of their customers hurting the MMORPG genre? Are Funcom ripping preordering customers of their hard earned money by not delivering enough information?
I feel great. Better than ever in fact. Glad I pre-ordered.
OP, how do you feel about your DF pre-order?
I'd rather wait another year to play Darkfall than wait 1 day to play a nerfed AoC that clearly isn't ready for launch. The longer that NDA stays up the more it shows how badly this game is progressing.
You would think for a simple, linear, non-innovative game like AoC (which I was really excited about playing until recently) that the kinks might be worked out by now... but nope.
Thats fine by me. I enjoy online gaming. You enjoy waiting, and fantasizing about games. The world is plenty big enough for us both.
I think your guess (because thats what it is) for just "one more year" until Darkfall is kind of sad really. I am sure many, many gamers said that about Darkfall over the years. I am betting at least a full decade of development before you see a Beta. Maybe? It's already been 7 years, thats only 3 away. I would say the odds are on my side.
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Give a fish a man and he will eat for a month!
Cheated.....no.Frustrated...very. I have been an active AOC board member for 2 1/2 years.Has Funcome kept their word about recognizing such loyalty.....NO. Will I play the game with out trying it...not unless I read extensive credible reviews.NET NET...we have all been down this "now you see it ,now you don't" road.My VG scars are still healing and Funcom will not have their chance to add others.
Maybe they will just run the closed beta untill a week up to releash and then let the thoese who has pre-ordered play
Actually their community manager or one of their devs put a post up on the site stating something along the lines of 'There seems to have been a misunderstanding and people think there will be no open beta. We will have an open beta, but it will still require some registration. Players won't simply be able to download and start playing the game.' .. If I have time to find the link this morning i'll add it to this post.
Cheated.....no.Frustrated...very. I have been an active AOC board member for 2 1/2 years.Has Funcome kept their word about recognizing such loyalty.....NO. Will I play the game with out trying it...not unless I read extensive credible reviews.NET NET...we have all been down this "now you see it ,now you don't" road.My VG scars are still healing and Funcom will not have their chance to add others.
NDA is still in, no date for open beta. Will it be a lag-feast? Will my computer handle the graphics or do i need to buy a new one? Very little information about the game. Will i be able to try it out before they send my preorder box to me? If the game dont live up to the hype will you as a preordering customer feel cheated? And what negative impact will that have to the MMORPG genre? Is Funcoms treatment of their customers hurting the MMORPG genre? Are Funcom ripping preordering customers of their hard earned money by not delivering enough information?
I feel great. Better than ever in fact. Glad I pre-ordered.
OP, how do you feel about your DF pre-order?
I'd rather wait another year to play Darkfall than wait 1 day to play a nerfed AoC that clearly isn't ready for launch. The longer that NDA stays up the more it shows how badly this game is progressing.
You would think for a simple, linear, non-innovative game like AoC (which I was really excited about playing until recently) that the kinks might be worked out by now... but nope.
Thats fine by me. I enjoy online gaming. You enjoy waiting, and fantasizing about games. The world is plenty big enough for us both.
I think your guess (because thats what it is) for just "one more year" until Darkfall is kind of sad really. I am sure many, many gamers said that about Darkfall over the years. I am betting at least a full decade of development before you see a Beta. Maybe? It's already been 7 years, thats only 3 away. I would say the odds are on my side.
I wasn't guessing, more using that number as an example. AoC fans and MMO fans alike, especially those who thrive on PvP had better hope Darkfall or games like it doesn't launch in the coming years because it will simply make games like AoC/WAR obsolete.
Why would you play a game that restricts you in so many ways when you can PvP in a virtual world with full combat control? It would be like playing elder scrolls but in an MMO... I can see why the AoC fanbois really don't want Darkfall to launch.
The problem is that I would think that players everywhere would want the chance to play the absolute best games possible... I think Darkfall and Mortal Online will render current online gaming useless and offer something a lot of us really want -- Freedom.
Comments
I do agree selling unlimited pre-orders and then delaying release is unethical. Profiting off the combination the hype machine and the lack of any decent mmos allows them to get money out of customers who really are just rolling the dice and hoping the game is as good as advertised with limited facts and no product testimonials.
"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." -Edmund Burke
Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?"
(Psalm 94:16)
As opposed to what? Selling pre-orders and releasing the product no matter the issues with it, just so as to keep the release date in tact? I'm sure glad that Warhammer got delayed if the developers of said game believed that it could use the extra time. I'm also glad that the AoC developers feel that their game is ready, but an extra delay wouldn't bother me the least.
No-one is forcing you to pre-order. It may come as shocking but if you're not sure about the quality of the game, you better demonstrate some patience and constrain yourself from what amounts to reserving a game box. Since that's what you're basically doing. Since people are entitled to move their pre-order money anywhere they see fit, I don't think they can claim that the have paid anything for any particular game (until they actually receive their copy).
Games are not food. Nothing harmful will happen to you if you don't play this particular game or any game at all. Nothing harmful (well, unless some people have very fragile ego) will happen if somebody starts gaming a couple months later than the release time.
If people feel cheated is because they allowed themselves to be cheated.
It does make you wonder why there isnt open beta - hiding a stinker?
I won't be pre-ordering.
Account has been stolen, why would someone want to steal my account?
~Hairysun~
http://www.straightdope.com/
That's a non-issue really. They have already announced the open beta months ago. Whether you believe them or not is another matter.
In fact, lets scrap the "open beta" since it's totally inaccurate nowadays and call it marketing launch instead.
My concern is whether:
Time will tell I guess.
They are having a semi open beta, and you will be able to find out what you need to know. A horrible game will have people leaking regardless of the NDA. Especially if they bring in tens of thousands of people for some kind of open beta soon. Just relax and let's see what happens. Theres no need to get all worked up.
No, I don't feel cheated. However, I refuse the buy the pre-order because I just don't know enough about the game and I don't have a real good feeling about the state it's going to be in upon release. I really hope the game is amazing, but I'm waiting for some real reviews before I lay down the money.
All this drama about Beta and the assumed right to try before you buy...
As has been said before, there is no implicit right to try a game before you buy it. Why the new generation of gamers think there is is beyond me... When you fancy a going to see a movie do you get to see the first 30mins of it to make sure it's gonna be good? No, of course not, you pays your moneys and takes your chances with the rest of us. A game is no different... read the info, watch the trailers, talk to the people around you, and make a personal choice.
I have been gaming a few years now, both on consoles from the Atari 2600 and the PC from my beloved Spectrum 48k (taking the term 'PC' in a loose sense that is... hehe), and I would say probably 90% of the games I have played I bought on the back of reviews and recommendations after the game was released.
Some of these games were great, some have been truly horrible, but thats just the way of things in this hobby. I never blamed a lack of Beta for me spending the money, even when the game was junk., even when I was a kid and didnt have any. I never even assumed there should even be a Beta. I just read info and previews, talked to my friends, and took the chance. More often then not it worked out.
Hell, some of my favourite ever games were just bought straight off the games shop shelf, Everquest included, that I had no info about past what was on the back of the box.
Like someone said before me, the OP is just obviously aggreived that he didnt get into Beta and has now taken it as a personal affront and now has a mission to make AoC look bad for whatever reason.
Rumours from NDA breakers mean nothing to me tbh... They have already proven themselves to be liars by breaking an agreed contract, so why would I trust them now?
Have I pre-ordered? Yep. Will I feel ripped off or betrayed if this games dosent happen to be what I want? Nope. Do I feel Funcom have somehow treated it's fanbase badly? Certainly not.
Quite the opposite tbh.
If you buy an locked version from US, expecting it to work everywhere in Europe, you might feel even more cheated
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
Assuming the OP was actually posting legitimate questions and not trolling, here is the reality --
Whenever a new product enters the market, there will always be early adopters. Early adopters either pay a premium to get this product, suffer through the first round of problems with it, watch as their product becomes defunct or experience some combination of the three. The point is, early adopters have enough money that they don't care about spending it and they derive tremendous satisfaction at being the first on the block to have the new toy. This doesn't matter if it's a new car, a fantastic keyboard with digital images on the keys, an HD-DVD player or an MMO.
If you're pre-ordering a game, you're throwing yourself in with the lot of people who have the money to burn or the fools who think they have the money to burn (yet complain about spending it afterwards or, worse, can't figure out where their money went). No one is twisting your arm to buy the product and there certainly will be professional reviews of the game as well as player reviews once it goes live. A smart consumer will gather information before making such a blind buy, especially with the history of this market.
So this is what the the future of MMO's are?
They can get judged before they actually go live?
Strange how some speculate the outcome of the game without the NDA lifted.
Sure some leaked reports do tell tales of certain aspects that might be a problem for the game but honestly is this the trend now that before a game is even launched that so many want to convince others not to even play?
Do I personally feel cheated?..Hell no... for the simple reason I haven't spent a dime on AOC.
It's like a fricken virus on these forums sometimes with players that don't even want anything to succeed.
If a game fails to live up to the hype so what.
If the gaming community would just allow some slack on these new titles. Maybe just maybe something will breakout and be that gem we all eagerly await.
Some of you people either need to relax and breathe or maybe just go get laid.
/rant off
Its funny how people think that there's not going to be an "open" beta / "marketing" launch / final beta stage / stress test when the game still has about 5 weeks to go. if memory serves me rightly WoW had an open beta that lasted about 1 month. Same for Vanguard. So by my reckoning, we may just hear something in about 1 weeks time.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Simple answer: no
-Jive
I didn't read all the posts except the OP.... and I just want to say, they aren't forcing you to pre-order it. Wait and hear what it's like at release if you don't get a chance to 'try' it.
I feel great. Better than ever in fact. Glad I pre-ordered.
OP, how do you feel about your DF pre-order?
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Give a fish a man and he will eat for a month!
No way.
I feel great. Better than ever in fact. Glad I pre-ordered.
OP, how do you feel about your DF pre-order?
I'd rather wait another year to play Darkfall than wait 1 day to play a nerfed AoC that clearly isn't ready for launch. The longer that NDA stays up the more it shows how badly this game is progressing.
You would think for a simple, linear, non-innovative game like AoC (which I was really excited about playing until recently) that the kinks might be worked out by now... but nope.
Tecmo Bowl.
I feel great. Better than ever in fact. Glad I pre-ordered.
OP, how do you feel about your DF pre-order?
I'd rather wait another year to play Darkfall than wait 1 day to play a nerfed AoC that clearly isn't ready for launch. The longer that NDA stays up the more it shows how badly this game is progressing.
You would think for a simple, linear, non-innovative game like AoC (which I was really excited about playing until recently) that the kinks might be worked out by now... but nope.
What you don't understand is they have already stated there will be a form of Open Beta, there will be a large 15,000 player PVP weekend this weekend, and there are tons of places on the web where people are openly breaking the NDA. The problem they have is that they stated to their testers that the test build has a lot of debugging code, and that the performance of the engine should not be compared to one going out at release yet players still flock to the internet to say the performance is weak. The tests that many people are leaking poor information from are stress tests which may be three hours a week and test one specific function of the game, or maybe just some process surrounding the game and the goal is to break the system. So then when it reaches it's limits and breaks the testers go out and complain that it broke...
There is more good things going on surrounding the beta then anyone knows because most of these people won't break the NDA but there are those that are breaking it that weren't people just looking for a free finished game by going into beta.
It is still a beta.
Actually, I'm really surprised they haven't started the open beta already. They are definitely more than ready.
you cant be sure they will do a open beta..
Maybe they will just run the closed beta untill a week up to releash and then let the thoese who has pre-ordered play
What Happend to Sex, Drugs And Rock'n'Roll?
Now we only have Aids, Crak and Techno
I feel great. Better than ever in fact. Glad I pre-ordered.
OP, how do you feel about your DF pre-order?
I'd rather wait another year to play Darkfall than wait 1 day to play a nerfed AoC that clearly isn't ready for launch. The longer that NDA stays up the more it shows how badly this game is progressing.
You would think for a simple, linear, non-innovative game like AoC (which I was really excited about playing until recently) that the kinks might be worked out by now... but nope.
Thats fine by me. I enjoy online gaming. You enjoy waiting, and fantasizing about games. The world is plenty big enough for us both.I think your guess (because thats what it is) for just "one more year" until Darkfall is kind of sad really. I am sure many, many gamers said that about Darkfall over the years. I am betting at least a full decade of development before you see a Beta. Maybe? It's already been 7 years, thats only 3 away. I would say the odds are on my side.
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Give a fish a man and he will eat for a month!
Cheated.....no.Frustrated...very. I have been an active AOC board member for 2 1/2 years.Has Funcome kept their word about recognizing such loyalty.....NO. Will I play the game with out trying it...not unless I read extensive credible reviews.NET NET...we have all been down this "now you see it ,now you don't" road.My VG scars are still healing and Funcom will not have their chance to add others.
Actually their community manager or one of their devs put a post up on the site stating something along the lines of 'There seems to have been a misunderstanding and people think there will be no open beta. We will have an open beta, but it will still require some registration. Players won't simply be able to download and start playing the game.' .. If I have time to find the link this morning i'll add it to this post.
Edit**
http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=51002&highlight=open+beta
Are you mad because you didn't get into beta?
I feel great. Better than ever in fact. Glad I pre-ordered.
OP, how do you feel about your DF pre-order?
I'd rather wait another year to play Darkfall than wait 1 day to play a nerfed AoC that clearly isn't ready for launch. The longer that NDA stays up the more it shows how badly this game is progressing.
You would think for a simple, linear, non-innovative game like AoC (which I was really excited about playing until recently) that the kinks might be worked out by now... but nope.
Thats fine by me. I enjoy online gaming. You enjoy waiting, and fantasizing about games. The world is plenty big enough for us both.I think your guess (because thats what it is) for just "one more year" until Darkfall is kind of sad really. I am sure many, many gamers said that about Darkfall over the years. I am betting at least a full decade of development before you see a Beta. Maybe? It's already been 7 years, thats only 3 away. I would say the odds are on my side.
I wasn't guessing, more using that number as an example. AoC fans and MMO fans alike, especially those who thrive on PvP had better hope Darkfall or games like it doesn't launch in the coming years because it will simply make games like AoC/WAR obsolete.
Why would you play a game that restricts you in so many ways when you can PvP in a virtual world with full combat control? It would be like playing elder scrolls but in an MMO... I can see why the AoC fanbois really don't want Darkfall to launch.
The problem is that I would think that players everywhere would want the chance to play the absolute best games possible... I think Darkfall and Mortal Online will render current online gaming useless and offer something a lot of us really want -- Freedom.
Tecmo Bowl.