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NO OPEN WORLD IN AOC!!!!
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Which are?
Smaller worlds. Visually pre-loading worlds could never look like AOC without them performing very badly like Vanguard. There is also a reduction in performance around pre-loading points, try having a large PVP battle in WoW on a pre-load point and you'll see a large drop in performance on a average machine. There is no such thing as a open world, some MMOs just go out of their way to make it seem that way.
Smaller worlds? Smaller than AoC, you gotta be kiddin, you obviously have no idea. AoC has the smallest world of all major mmoprg i played.
I'm not going to argue with you, I knew as soon as you said "which are" that you where looking for an argument about things you clearly don't understand. I said smaller worlds as bait and you took it, I could go into detail as to what I mean but I don't see any point, you've made your mind up.
Yeah 'cus no successful MMOs ever use this method. OH wait, they do...
Did I miss something? I've read every post in this thread and, until yours, no one mentioned WoW.
Where does the OP say anything about being a WoW look-alike? Or about them wanting it to be a WoW Look-alike? Or... could it be that you invoked that completely out of the blue simply so you could counter and/or dismiss the OP's argument outright?
Someone else threw out the over-rated and over-used "Well what level did you get to?" argument. Again... another attempt to dismiss the OP's opinion based on some arbitrary "bar" conveniently contrived to disqualify it. They've earned their right to an opinion, just like anyone else by having bought and played the game.
Does it matter what level they got to? Especially when others are saying it's the same even beyond level 20 or whatever? It's no different than how people will use post count to quality or disqualify someone's opinion when they disagree with it.
That said... It's not a "WoW" thing. It's a MMO thing. What the OP is missing in AoC is a seamless, contiguous world where everyone coexists in the same area, at the same time - not in instances. I, for one, agree with him because that drives me nuts as well. It drove me nuts in Guild Wars when in the "hub" areas, it annoyed me "back in the day" when Anarchy Online was more populated and there were multiple instances of a given area.
It's the OP's right to dislike it as much as it is others' right to think it's fine. Don't have to agree with them, but for cryin' out loud... would you people learn to simply disagree with an opinion you don't share, and stop trying to shoot it out of the water, or discredit the person voicing it?
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Which are?
Smaller worlds. Visually pre-loading worlds could never look like AOC without them performing very badly like Vanguard. There is also a reduction in performance around pre-loading points, try having a large PVP battle in WoW on a pre-load point and you'll see a large drop in performance on a average machine. There is no such thing as a open world, some MMOs just go out of their way to make it seem that way.
Smaller worlds? Smaller than AoC, you gotta be kiddin, you obviously have no idea. AoC has the smallest world of all major mmoprg i played.
I'm not going to argue with you, I knew as soon as you said "which are" that you where looking for an argument about things you clearly don't understand. I said smaller worlds as bait and you took it, I could go into detail as to what I mean but I don't see any point, you've made your mind up.
LOL, yeah, exactly my point, you have no arguments at all to back up your bold statements.
Which are?
Smaller worlds. Visually pre-loading worlds could never look like AOC without them performing very badly like Vanguard. There is also a reduction in performance around pre-loading points, try having a large PVP battle in WoW on a pre-load point and you'll see a large drop in performance on a average machine. There is no such thing as a open world, some MMOs just go out of their way to make it seem that way.
Smaller worlds? Smaller than AoC, you gotta be kiddin, you obviously have no idea. AoC has the smallest world of all major mmoprg i played.
Smallest World? Are you kidding me? What level have you gotten to? If you haven't gotten over level 20 yet, you ain't seen nothing to base that statement on.
Kopshef and Connells Valley are huge alone. Each are about the size of 1/2 of Qalia in Vanguard. And that is ignoring all the other zones.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Which are?
Bad graphics...
Which are?
Smaller worlds. Visually pre-loading worlds could never look like AOC without them performing very badly like Vanguard. There is also a reduction in performance around pre-loading points, try having a large PVP battle in WoW on a pre-load point and you'll see a large drop in performance on a average machine. There is no such thing as a open world, some MMOs just go out of their way to make it seem that way.
Smaller worlds? Smaller than AoC, you gotta be kiddin, you obviously have no idea. AoC has the smallest world of all major mmoprg i played.
I'm not going to argue with you, I knew as soon as you said "which are" that you where looking for an argument about things you clearly don't understand. I said smaller worlds as bait and you took it, I could go into detail as to what I mean but I don't see any point, you've made your mind up.
LOL, yeah, exactly my point, you have no arguments at all to back up your bold statements.
Other than a PhD in Computer Science. It's a simple trade off, a HUGE open world will have to pre-load more and more and more than a smaller one, Vanguard is the perfect example of this. The larger the world and more detailed it looks the more of a drain on performance you'll see because the game never really knows which direction you might go in so it ends up pre-loading a lot and chugging along. WoW deals with this by using small zones that have set cut of points between each area, Vanguard is the prefect example of it all going wrong. Zoned games don't have this sort of problem, the down side is of course loading screens and the bigger a zone the longer the load but no reduction in performance while you play. Both methods are viable, both have up and down sides. It doesn't matter how small you think AOC is right now, it has the potential to be huge in size. You sir, are a waste of my time.
Did I miss something? I've read every post in this thread and, until yours, no one mentioned WoW.
Where does the OP say anything about being a WoW look-alike? Or about them wanting it to be a WoW Look-alike? Or... could it be that you invoked that completely out of the blue simply so you could counter and/or dismiss the OP's argument outright?
Someone else threw out the over-rated and over-used "Well what level did you get to?" argument. Again... another attempt to dismiss the OP's opinion based on some arbitrary "bar" conveniently contrived to disqualify it. They've earned their right to an opinion, just like anyone else by having bought and played the game.
Does it matter what level they got to? Especially when others are saying it's the same even beyond level 20 or whatever? It's no different than how people will use post count to quality or disqualify someone's opinion when they disagree with it.
That said... It's not a "WoW" thing. It's a MMO thing. What the OP is missing in AoC is a seamless, contiguous world where everyone coexists in the same area, at the same time - not in instances. I, for one, agree with him because that drives me nuts as well. It drove me nuts in Guild Wars when in the "hub" areas, it annoyed me "back in the day" when Anarchy Online was more populated and there were multiple instances of a given area.
It's the OP's right to dislike it as much as it is others' right to think it's fine. Don't have to agree with them, but for cryin' out loud... would you people learn to simply disagree with an opinion you don't share, and stop trying to shoot it out of the water, or discredit the person voicing it?
Look around you. Everyone is comparing AoC to WoW.. Maybe it isnt mentioned by name, but its prette clear that people are thinking of WoW, when you red their arguments for AoC beeing bad.
So, by YOUR definition (not the official one mind you) EQ2 was an SMOIGHT CORPG?
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Can somebody confirm (or deny) the existence of instanced zones outside the Tortage island complex and the starter cities? It should vary per server population, but it'll be interesting to identify whether we're arguing over the theoretical existence of the system as opposed to a real impact on players.
For example, anyone been on a second instance of 'Wild Lands', or 'Khopsef' etc?
Well the Hyboria bit, After lvl 20 or so is ALWAYS Multiplayer, i dont think its instanced at that bit..
Please try to back your arguments with more than unsubstanciated misinformation.
I'm running the game at full max with an (expensive) system I made last summer. There is nothing prerendered about the high resolution graphics. I didn't bother with low resolution graphics but from other posters it seems that they don't agree with you.
Ok, heres the low down:
Yes there are zones that require loading times (about 10 - 20 seconds...wow!). HOWEVER, and I must stress this. They are approximately the size of 1/2 of Qalia in Vanguard so you can get the idea of size. PLUS they aren't just for you and your group. EVERYONE is in them.
Just like in EQ2.
Now, heres the second bit...
Instancing: Yes there CAN be multiple copies of such zones. BUT they are only created dynamically should the population reach a certain point. They aren't always available for that reason. Therefore, as much of the population of each zone stays in the same "copy" as possible.
Just like in EQ2.
Dungeons: Again, not just created for you and your group. Others are also in there with you.
Again, just like EQ2.
Yes, I've been to Kopshef AND Connells Valley (both of which are levels 20 - 30). Both are bloody enormous.
So.....think of AoC like EQ2 in those respects, but with:
Better graphics,
Kick ass sound effects
Better combat system,
More in-depth lore driven quest system.
Btw. don't listen to Zorf. The game DOESN'T lag out the moment you see more than one person. Want lag? Play Vanguard or Anarchy Online, then you'll know lag.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
everyone with at least 1 working braincell knew AoC wouldnt be immersive, that it would have more instances then other mmos... u call it fraud
lol. everyone who doesnt like it wont play it or will cancel after 30 days, and thats that. funcom knew very well there were ppl who would hate this system. i dont know what u are complaining about.. honestly... u are not playing it so why do you continue to complain? its not like u wasted money on it. useless post
MMOs currently playing: -
About to play: Lord of the Rings Online
Played: Anarchy Online (alltime favorite) and lots of f2p titles (honorable mentions: 9Dragons, Martial Heroes, Dekaron, Atlantica Online)
everyone with at least 1 working braincell knew AoC wouldnt be immersive, that it would have more instances then other mmos... u call it fraud
lol. everyone who doesnt like it wont play it or will cancel after 30 days, and thats that. funcom knew very well there were ppl who would hate this system. i dont know what u are complaining about.. honestly... u are not playing it so why do you continue to complain? its not like u wasted money on it. useless post
Immersion is a subjective term. One persons immersion is another persons game-breaking design.
However I do agree on the most part. Just like EVERY other MMO, there will be some who like AoC, and some who don't. Funcom expects this. Just as Blizzard and SOE expected it before them.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
It's not the game silly, it's your gaming rig. Don't tell me you have a good system either if you have to run it on low settings. If you wish to play the game with better graphics, then maybe it is time for an upgrade. Most people knew this game was going to be system hog - hell I was breaking the NDA on that 6 months ago trying to warn people what to expect - as were many others. This game runs very smoothly and the graphics are gorgeous and I have no problem when I encounter lots of people...and we're talking a couple of dozen or more and the games FPS doesn't even drop.
My toon is level 60, and I"ll say that world design is a major weakness of the game. It's not so much the reason that I won't be resubscribing as that I just couldn't convince any of my RL friends to play.
But, I hope to never see another online MMO game take AoC's approach. The world feels small. The zones are small. The only reason it takes along time to run back and forth between areas is because they make you corkscrew around the terrain. Quests have to send you back and forth to the same camps at least twice. There's one quest in the Field of the Dead that sent you back to ALL of the other camps you had already visited.
Vanir are spitting distance from packs of wolves and bandits. NPCs are camping by packs of cannibals. They seemed to use very little logic when they distributed the mob population, and usually the only thing keeping cats and dogs from living together is a piece of jagged, impassible terrain. It has way too much artificial sandbox feel to it.
The design of the zones feel like they were built for a single player game. You don't even need to explore because you just follow the on map icons to your quest objectives. I don't want to discourage anyone from trying the game because it's decent, but the world design is bad for a MMORPG. There is no argueing that.
Anyways, I'm still not a big fan on the instancing zone, ok for exmaple lets look at lotro the game looks fantastic is you ask me and they manage to do it open world.
I'm only level 35 - but I agree
EQ2 fan sites
ohh what a bummer to read all these posts
Instanced world sounds bad...
Now that you mention single player game, they did say the game was coming to xbox360 later in 2009
I wonder if that is one of the reason why the game feels that way.
It's not as bad as the haters make it sound (aka, instancing outside Tortage islands doesn't seem to exist) but it's not roses either (the world would feel a lot better if there was some sort of mechanic that would imply travel, instead of making it instant. I say this because the territories presented in the game are not physically connected together in the game world map).
That's exactly the point. I I don't want to SEE the zoning as a player.
As as for the instancinng, people will say that it's not a big deal, but for a PvP game, it is. I don't want to chase people accross different instances. I don't want people to be able to jump to a different instance to get away.
Competition over quest mobs? Solve it with PvP, not with magical parallel dimensions.
As someone who have worked as a programmer on AoC for a while (my name ended up in "additional programmers" in the credits, along with all the others who left before the end :O), I can explain why things are that way.
The reason is legacy code, legacy content development tools, and legacy content management systems. AoC wasn't quite built from scratch. Anarchy Online's code and tools were used as the starting point.
Most of the subsystems and tools were rewritten over the years of development of AoC. But when you rewrite things piecemeal like that, you never have a chance to break the mold and rethink the overall architecture of the engine.
And going from a zoning system like in AO to an open world like in WoW would have required some fundamental redesign of the engine, as well as the tools and content development processes.
This is a huge step backwards indeed, though.
I'm only level 35 - but I agree
I, on my level 30 toon, also agree. The mob placement is quite poor, white sands for example. However Funcom have proved in the past that they listen to player feedback, and it is highly possible that this will be changed.
HOWEVER. The game is awesome. The graphics are fantastic (even on my laptop with an 8400M GT). The gameplay is brilliant, and Funcoms little tweaks and characteristic events and jokes give it that little bit more. The zoning really doesn't affect you in any noticeable way after level 20, in fact as it will reduce lag in busy areas, prevent over crowding, and allow superior graphics, I actually welcome it.
Currently looking for core members, feel free to visit http://www.aoc-dynasty.webs.com/ for more info, and forums link.
Also, someone said that dungeons were shared. Not so. Many (most that I''ve seen through level 40) are individual or party shared only.