What I find humorous is that so many educated, sophisticated people can actually believe in a magical omnipotent being that has existed forever and created the entire universe but decided to focus all (or most) of his attention on our little planet. The Greeks thought similarly about their gods but we laugh at them now. Someday, people will also laugh at Christians, Jews, etc. for believing in God.
I don't know anyone that laughs at the Greek or Norse Gods anymore than they laugh at their own. You either know some incredibly ignorant people, or you're making gross generalisations based on yourself. There's no reason their religion is any more right than ours today, and I know very few 'believers' that would dispute that. Different times = different needs = different religions.
Do you actually know people who still worship Zeus? No, didn't think so. My point was the ancient Greeks, Romans, etc. truly believed in their gods and they turned out to be false.
So we should stop believing in God because Zeus fell out of fashion? Sorry, just trying to clarify what you're saying.
No, I don't believe that there is a god, but I'm not entirely sure there isn't one either. While I call myself an atheist, my world would not be shattered if it were somehow proven that there did exist a god.
The irony is that people are so obsessed with the answer to this question when they can't even grasp the foundations yet: It's like trying to see the entire picture without looking at, or even understanding what the pixels are.
I guess it's important to so many people, because of the triviality of making conjectures...
I've learned that the most important results are not based on intuitive conjecture, but creative logical manipulations of results.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
No, I don't believe that there is a god, but I'm not entirely sure there isn't one either. While I call myself an atheist, my world would not be shattered if it were somehow proven that there did exist a god. The irony is that people are so obsessed with the answer to this question when they can't even grasp the foundations yet: It's like trying to see the entire picture without looking at, or even understanding what the pixels are. I guess it's important to so many people, because of the triviality of making conjectures... I've learned that the most important results are not based on intuitive conjecture, but creative logical manipulations of results.
No, you're not atheist, you're agnostic, an atheist is 100% convinced that there is no existence of god, whereas you aren't sure either way, making you agnostic.
What I find humorous is that so many educated, sophisticated people can actually believe in a magical omnipotent being that has existed forever and created the entire universe but decided to focus all (or most) of his attention on our little planet. The Greeks thought similarly about their gods but we laugh at them now. Someday, people will also laugh at Christians, Jews, etc. for believing in God.
I don't know anyone that laughs at the Greek or Norse Gods anymore than they laugh at their own. You either know some incredibly ignorant people, or you're making gross generalisations based on yourself. There's no reason their religion is any more right than ours today, and I know very few 'believers' that would dispute that. Different times = different needs = different religions.
Do you actually know people who still worship Zeus? No, didn't think so. My point was the ancient Greeks, Romans, etc. truly believed in their gods and they turned out to be false.
Firstly, yes I do. I also know people who worship the Norse pantheon, and the Roman pantheon. So maybe your world is just a little too small compared to the real one.
Who has proven their Gods to be false? If their Gods are proven false then surely all Gods can be proven false, and yet we know that you cannot falsify the unfalsifiable. People converting to other belief systems does not mean the original ones were wrong, just that they prefer, or had better reason to align themselves with the new ones. A pluralist would even say they're worshipping exactly the same thing and it's totally irrelevant which Gods they pick.
I dont belive any religion is good, and i dont belive in any higher power. Coz i think the life is worth living not living it for death. If you get what i mean. If you walking around worried over death you are not livining your just worried over something in the end you do not control.
And why i think religion is bad is just that i havent seen anything good come out of it, just but hate and judgement.
Thats all i wanted to say, and yeah sorry for my bad english.
Wow, it's funny how everyone seems to believe Osama bin ladein was behind the 9/11 attacks so easily with hardly any evidence but when it comes to God..."where's the evidence? "
You do realize there is much more evidence for Osama bin laden's involvement in 9/11 then the existance of a deity, right?
in fact, you used a really, REALLY poor comparisson.
Do you know that there were actually 11 people suspected with the 9/11 attacks? Do you know that Bin Ladein has not been involved before 9/11 with a terrorist attack against innocent civilians? If there is more existence than what we know why did they produce a dubbed tape of Osama bin ladein saying he was behind 9/11? The more people look into 9/11 the more dubious one becomes, poor comparison...my ass.
There is plenty of reason to believe Osama Bin laden was involved with 9-11. There is not a SHRED of evidence for the existance of a deity, and that's why your comparison is bad.
So, they still used a dubbed tape. It means the evidence was no where near good enough to point the finger, end of story.
We're all Geniuses. Most of us just don't know it.
Wow, it's funny how everyone seems to believe Osama bin ladein was behind the 9/11 attacks so easily with hardly any evidence but when it comes to God..."where's the evidence? "
You do realize there is much more evidence for Osama bin laden's involvement in 9/11 then the existance of a deity, right?
in fact, you used a really, REALLY poor comparisson.
Do you know that there were actually 11 people suspected with the 9/11 attacks? Do you know that Bin Ladein has not been involved before 9/11 with a terrorist attack against innocent civilians? If there is more existence than what we know why did they produce a dubbed tape of Osama bin ladein saying he was behind 9/11? The more people look into 9/11 the more dubious one becomes, poor comparison...my ass.
There is plenty of reason to believe Osama Bin laden was involved with 9-11. There is not a SHRED of evidence for the existance of a deity, and that's why your comparison is bad.
So, they still used a dubbed tape. It means the evidence was no where near good enough to point the finger, end of story.
the issue is that you're trying to compare something with evidence and where the culprit has actually confirmed to be involved to something that has zero evidence, therefore your comparisson was wrong there, NOW it's end of story
Wow, it's funny how everyone seems to believe Osama bin ladein was behind the 9/11 attacks so easily with hardly any evidence but when it comes to God..."where's the evidence? "
You do realize there is much more evidence for Osama bin laden's involvement in 9/11 then the existance of a deity, right?
in fact, you used a really, REALLY poor comparisson.
Do you know that there were actually 11 people suspected with the 9/11 attacks? Do you know that Bin Ladein has not been involved before 9/11 with a terrorist attack against innocent civilians? If there is more existence than what we know why did they produce a dubbed tape of Osama bin ladein saying he was behind 9/11? The more people look into 9/11 the more dubious one becomes, poor comparison...my ass.
There is plenty of reason to believe Osama Bin laden was involved with 9-11. There is not a SHRED of evidence for the existance of a deity, and that's why your comparison is bad.
So, they still used a dubbed tape. It means the evidence was no where near good enough to point the finger, end of story.
the issue is that you're trying to compare something with evidence and where the culprit has actually confirmed to be involved to something that has zero evidence, therefore your comparisson was wrong there, NOW it's end of story
Listen mate there's just as much evidence that 9/11 was conspired, Michael Moor made a friggin documentary about it. All you need to do is google it, we can send each other links all day supporting the event just like this topic itself, hence it was a good comparison. You are just like the other people who suddenly have a facial expression like this when you realise the government can actually NOT be telling the truth, American government is probably the most infamous with the Area 51 and War in Iraq fiasco which still makes me laugh to this day.
We're all Geniuses. Most of us just don't know it.
I think I am a GOD and that I created this world. You should all worship me.
It makes sense because everything is perceived, seen, felt from my perspective. The last thing I did before entering this world I created was to remove any knowledge of my GODliness and my having created this world so that I could truly experience living in it.
No, you're not atheist, you're agnostic, an atheist is 100% convinced that there is no existence of god, whereas you aren't sure either way, making you agnostic.
No, agnostics can also be convinced that there exists a god/gods. I doubt that there exists a god, but I don't accept that there necessarily is one.
I dont belive any religion is good, and i dont belive in any higher power. Coz i think the life is worth living not living it for death. If you get what i mean. If you walking around worried over death you are not livining your just worried over something in the end you do not control. And why i think religion is bad is just that i havent seen anything good come out of it, just but hate and judgement. Thats all i wanted to say, and yeah sorry for my bad english.
You can believe in God and not adhere to a religion or authority.
I dont belive any religion is good, and i dont belive in any higher power. Coz i think the life is worth living not living it for death. If you get what i mean. If you walking around worried over death you are not livining your just worried over something in the end you do not control. And why i think religion is bad is just that i havent seen anything good come out of it, just but hate and judgement. Thats all i wanted to say, and yeah sorry for my bad english.
You can believe in God and not adhere to a religion or authority.
SIgh, the principles within basically all religions only cause problems when misunderstood. Racism is easily the worst problem on this earth, just look at the middle passage, that was pathetic...Problems "caused" by religion are peanuts compared to problems created via discrimination of many sorts.
We're all Geniuses. Most of us just don't know it.
Hi, yes I do believe in god and in fact i'm a MUSLIM. When people see this, i always get insulted because of it but I think that they don't truly know what Islam is about. Most people get their info from the news, from which Islam gets a lot of bashing because of terrorism. What most people don't bother to find out is that what these terrorists do is completely against Islam because they kill innocent people. Also I never read about people disproving Islam. It's usually Christianity that gets bashed. Well...I challenge some one to disprove Islam. I am strong in my faith because science has not been able to prove it wrong yet. Many scientists have become muslims after attempting to disprove it because they realise that they can't and it must be in fact the divine word from god. The Qur'an (Islamic holy book similar to the bible) has been proven by science for example:
“Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse” “And the mountains as pegs?” [Al-Qur’an 78:6-7] Its has only been recently proved that mountains have deep roots shaped like pegs...how can a illiterate man know this?
"If they can make Penicillin out of mouldy bread, they can sure make something out of you," - Muhammed Ali
What I find humorous is that so many educated, sophisticated people can actually believe in a magical omnipotent being that has existed forever and created the entire universe but decided to focus all (or most) of his attention on our little planet. The Greeks thought similarly about their gods but we laugh at them now. Someday, people will also laugh at Christians, Jews, etc. for believing in God.
I don't know anyone that laughs at the Greek or Norse Gods anymore than they laugh at their own. You either know some incredibly ignorant people, or you're making gross generalisations based on yourself. There's no reason their religion is any more right than ours today, and I know very few 'believers' that would dispute that. Different times = different needs = different religions.
Do you actually know people who still worship Zeus? No, didn't think so. My point was the ancient Greeks, Romans, etc. truly believed in their gods and they turned out to be false.
So we should stop believing in God because Zeus fell out of fashion? Sorry, just trying to clarify what you're saying.
Sigh...my point is that the current god will "fall out of fashion" just like the old ones.
What I find humorous is that so many educated, sophisticated people can actually believe in a magical omnipotent being that has existed forever and created the entire universe but decided to focus all (or most) of his attention on our little planet. The Greeks thought similarly about their gods but we laugh at them now. Someday, people will also laugh at Christians, Jews, etc. for believing in God.
I don't know anyone that laughs at the Greek or Norse Gods anymore than they laugh at their own. You either know some incredibly ignorant people, or you're making gross generalisations based on yourself. There's no reason their religion is any more right than ours today, and I know very few 'believers' that would dispute that. Different times = different needs = different religions.
Do you actually know people who still worship Zeus? No, didn't think so. My point was the ancient Greeks, Romans, etc. truly believed in their gods and they turned out to be false.
Firstly, yes I do. I also know people who worship the Norse pantheon, and the Roman pantheon. So maybe your world is just a little too small compared to the real one.
Who has proven their Gods to be false? If their Gods are proven false then surely all Gods can be proven false, and yet we know that you cannot falsify the unfalsifiable. People converting to other belief systems does not mean the original ones were wrong, just that they prefer, or had better reason to align themselves with the new ones. A pluralist would even say they're worshipping exactly the same thing and it's totally irrelevant which Gods they pick.
I'm sorry, I thought we were talking within the confines of the civilized world. I seriously doubt anyone on these forums believes the sun is pulled across the sky by a giant chariot...and I also thinks it's fair to say that particular god was proven false.
What I find humorous is that so many educated, sophisticated people can actually believe in a magical omnipotent being that has existed forever and created the entire universe but decided to focus all (or most) of his attention on our little planet. The Greeks thought similarly about their gods but we laugh at them now. Someday, people will also laugh at Christians, Jews, etc. for believing in God.
I don't know anyone that laughs at the Greek or Norse Gods anymore than they laugh at their own. You either know some incredibly ignorant people, or you're making gross generalisations based on yourself. There's no reason their religion is any more right than ours today, and I know very few 'believers' that would dispute that. Different times = different needs = different religions.
Do you actually know people who still worship Zeus? No, didn't think so. My point was the ancient Greeks, Romans, etc. truly believed in their gods and they turned out to be false.
So we should stop believing in God because Zeus fell out of fashion? Sorry, just trying to clarify what you're saying.
Sigh...my point is that the current god will "fall out of fashion" just like the old ones.
What is the current God?
I think that the current God is the same that was around when people were following the religion of Zeus. I think it will be the same God that is around when these current religions evaporate.
I think you are putting all believers in God in the same type of categorical philosophy. We're not. I know people who believe in God who hate me for what I believe God is.
I used to be really religious, ive been to countless churchs thru out my life, baptist, church of christ, jewish, and mormon. Everyone thinks they have the right answer. Someones going to be wrong and I think there all wrong. Im no longer religious and believe that there is no god. God was created by man as a form of control, do this and you goto heaven you dont do this you goto hell and burn. Man wrote the bible, the bible are storys nothing more. After 2,000 + years are society still believes in a god we have never seen. Also some questions to ask is, why does god let the things go on that happen in the world, like that earthquake in china that killed 80,000 people or what ever the ridiculous amount was. Why doesent god/jesus heal people today like with the miracles that were presented in the bible, in truth man heals man, science and technology pave the way for cures and discoveries. But I also think that some people couldnt handle not having religion in there life or some form of a higher power, they wouldnt be able to cope with life and they would wonder whats the purpose. Whats so hard to accept that your born, you live, and you die and I think most dont wanna accept that, because it gives them comfort that theres something at the end of this life.
A good documentary in my eyes to watch on christianity, that also talks about huge gaps in the biblical timeline.
Hi, yes I do believe in god and in fact i'm a MUSLIM. When people see this, i always get insulted because of it but I think that they don't truly know what Islam is about. Most people get their info from the news, from which Islam gets a lot of bashing because of terrorism. What most people don't bother to find out is that what these terrorists do is completely against Islam because they kill innocent people. Also I never read about people disproving Islam. It's usually Christianity that gets bashed. Well...I challenge some one to disprove Islam. I am strong in my faith because science has not been able to prove it wrong yet. Many scientists have become muslims after attempting to disprove it because they realise that they can't and it must be in fact the divine word from god. The Qur'an (Islamic holy book similar to the bible) has been proven by science for example: “Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse” “And the mountains as pegs?” [Al-Qur’an 78:6-7] Its has only been recently proved that mountains have deep roots shaped like pegs...how can a illiterate man know this?
I like Islam. You picked probably the weakest quote in there if I'm honest - I much prefer the one about the leech being the start of life.
Islam equally has some ****ing terrible quotes, even when in context within the Qur'an though, which is not a good thing, and i damn well hope those aren't ever 'proven' - it's worth mentioning, I have indeed read the Qur'an.
The Bible too has some pretty interesting 'prophetic' passages which have come to pass, though I don't have the bookmark for it anymore - I'll have a scrounge on google when I've got some more free time.
I stop liking Islam at the point where believers start to call this 'proof.' It's not proof, it's evidence, and quite circumstancial in the most part. I certainly think it means Islam has a LOT more weight to it than other religions, but I can't help think it still isn't irrefutable enough to justify belief in any particular deity. I've seen some pretty impressive feats with my own eyes, and I'm still not converted by them, so even a myriad of chance passages in a text proven right later by science are definately not enough to make me hop the fence just yet.
It's also worth mentioning, there's one very large problem with taking science from a holy book. Science can constantly change its substance based upon new evidence; a holy book cannot be updated, so whilst we may think we've got it all right at the moment, when we develop upon it and find we weren't 100% there in the first place, that's going to take a LOT of weight from Islam's claims.
My final point though, is you've once again applied the wrong burden of proof. No offence, but this is something I see muslims do A LOT, and i'm not sure why - I assume it's because of a common taught doctrine or something. You asked us to disprove Islam. Obviously this is impossible; you cannot falsify the unfalsifiable. The burden of proof is on you to prove Islam correct, as it is you who is making the unsubstantiated claim.
Hi, yes I do believe in god and in fact i'm a MUSLIM. When people see this, i always get insulted because of it but I think that they don't truly know what Islam is about. Most people get their info from the news, from which Islam gets a lot of bashing because of terrorism. What most people don't bother to find out is that what these terrorists do is completely against Islam because they kill innocent people. Also I never read about people disproving Islam. It's usually Christianity that gets bashed. Well...I challenge some one to disprove Islam. I am strong in my faith because science has not been able to prove it wrong yet. Many scientists have become muslims after attempting to disprove it because they realise that they can't and it must be in fact the divine word from god. The Qur'an (Islamic holy book similar to the bible) has been proven by science for example: “Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse” “And the mountains as pegs?” [Al-Qur’an 78:6-7] Its has only been recently proved that mountains have deep roots shaped like pegs...how can a illiterate man know this?
Exactly, religion misunderstood is a problem...not the religion itself. You have to be pretty stupid to blame the fundamentals of a religion for terrorism or other events which take place on this Earth.
We're all Geniuses. Most of us just don't know it.
Hi, yes I do believe in god and in fact i'm a MUSLIM. When people see this, i always get insulted because of it but I think that they don't truly know what Islam is about. Most people get their info from the news, from which Islam gets a lot of bashing because of terrorism. What most people don't bother to find out is that what these terrorists do is completely against Islam because they kill innocent people. Also I never read about people disproving Islam. It's usually Christianity that gets bashed. Well...I challenge some one to disprove Islam. I am strong in my faith because science has not been able to prove it wrong yet. Many scientists have become muslims after attempting to disprove it because they realise that they can't and it must be in fact the divine word from god. The Qur'an (Islamic holy book similar to the bible) has been proven by science for example: “Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse” “And the mountains as pegs?” [Al-Qur’an 78:6-7] Its has only been recently proved that mountains have deep roots shaped like pegs...how can a illiterate man know this?
Exactly, religion misunderstood is a problem...not the religion itself. You have to be pretty stupid to blame the fundamentals of a religion for terrorism or other events which take place on this Earth.
Of course Religion itself is a problem. It asks that you give your time (the only time you will ever have), your money, and your trust to something that is make-believe. In return, it gives, what?
A false sense of security and control over your life? Prayer in place of medical treatment. Prayer in place of elevating yourself through actual effort. Prayer in the belief that it is an actual safety net (Native Americans used to pray over their animal-skin covered shields in the belief that it would stop a bullet -- worked well. For the guy with the gun). Prayer is a wonderful way to do nothing and /feel/ like you've done something. And millions of people participate in it on a daily basis. What a waste of time. And, what a waste of a thank you. Thank the people who actually provide for you, not some invisible sky-daddy. "God, I'd like to thank you for this meal... not the people who grew the food and then cooked it and the employer who pays me so that I could buy it, and on and on and on..."
It lets you do bad things and 'ask for forgiveness', and just FEEL way down deep in your so-called-soul that yeah, everything is just fine with the world now. Once you're right with God you don't need to be right with your victim, right? God forgives you! All is well. Happens all the time, and it is pathetic and dodgy.
When you believe in something invisible and supernatural, then you can believe in anything. It is nearly a requirement. Magic? Sure! Ghosts? Sure! Hurricanes that wipe out evil, sinful gays? Sure! Laying on hands? Sure! Donating money for God's blessing? Sure! God killed your cat because you masturbated? Sure!
It is divisive. Period. It is another barrier for humans to overcome as they try and come together. It becomes another Us vs Them thing. "THEY believe <ridiculous thing>, while WE believe <ridiculous thing>! How can we possibly get along with them?!?" We already have racism, money, politics, patriotism, and a host of other divisions. We do not need religion to add to that list.
Did I mention the waste of time? How many man-hours have been wasted by the members of all of the religions of world? Billions? Trillions? I realize we're all masters of wasting time, but don't you think some of that might have led to an advance or two?
But what about all the good things religion has done? They feed the poor! They provide shelter for the homeless! They provide voting stations!
Fine. Those are great things. Now name something that only religion can do. Feed the poor? Provide shelter for the homeless? Give us a place for voting machines? Yeah, we don't need religion for that.
Religion does nothing but add to problems. We are better than any religion. I look forward to the day it is completely gone.
if you woke up on earth as an adult one day, alone except for the non-human life that surrounds you, and you had nothing but your vocabulary. no debates, discussions, society. no rememberance of yourself. it would be pretty easy to think that a God created everything you see. you might even call in instinctual.
be honest. giving the burden of proof i lay upon you holy bashers. what would you think if you woke up on earth, alone. what would you think of your surroundings? the sky, stars, sun, perfect eco-system? what would you think if you were alone?
religion gives God a bad name due to its man-made errors. religion is social engineering. one that i agree with.
who is to say that J.C. wasnt real? that he was not sent with a message that got skewered a bit by man? arent I the same as J.C. and he the same as God. Gods will and subsequently his message could have been placed in J.C. peace and understanding. I dont adhere to this paragraph nor do i distance myself from it.
if you woke up on earth as an adult one day, alone except for the non-human life that surrounds you, and you had nothing but your vocabulary. no debates, discussions, society. no rememberance of yourself. it would be pretty easy to think that a God created everything you see. you might even call in instinctual. be honest. giving the burden of proof i lay upon you holy bashers. what would you think if you woke up on earth, alone. what would you think of your surroundings? the sky, stars, sun, perfect eco-system? what would you think if you were alone? religion gives God a bad name due to its man-made errors. religion is social engineering. one that i agree with. who is to say that J.C. wasnt real? that he was not sent with a message that got skewered a bit by man? arent I the same as J.C. and he the same as God. Gods will and subsequently his message could have been placed in J.C. peace and understanding. I dont adhere to this paragraph nor do i distance myself from it. "Repugnant is a creature who would squander
the ability to lift an eye to heaven,
conscious of his fleeting time here."
Did you just say that if you woke up completely ignorant of everything that a person would believe in God? Wow, I totally agree.
Good thing we're out of the dark ages and... oh... who am I kidding? People are still ignorant twits who believe in fairy tales.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
yes. i did just say that. i believe it would be instinctual. did you just say your conscious was ignorant without any "outside influences"?
we seperate ourselves from most all other creatures in our world because of our brain and our ability to process thought and reason. if left alont and unfiltered, you would believe in god.
i think the only reason anyone bashes religion is due to its man made fallacies in the writings. humans always want a gold star on their papers for a job well done. a pat on the back. God on the other hand is in us all. where would you be without evolution I ask?
the argument is folly because God cannot be disproven. God has proven himself with your surroundings and your instincts.
God by definition is intelligent design in my books.
Comments
I don't know anyone that laughs at the Greek or Norse Gods anymore than they laugh at their own. You either know some incredibly ignorant people, or you're making gross generalisations based on yourself. There's no reason their religion is any more right than ours today, and I know very few 'believers' that would dispute that. Different times = different needs = different religions.
Do you actually know people who still worship Zeus? No, didn't think so. My point was the ancient Greeks, Romans, etc. truly believed in their gods and they turned out to be false.
So we should stop believing in God because Zeus fell out of fashion? Sorry, just trying to clarify what you're saying.
--------------------------------------
No, I don't believe that there is a god, but I'm not entirely sure there isn't one either. While I call myself an atheist, my world would not be shattered if it were somehow proven that there did exist a god.
The irony is that people are so obsessed with the answer to this question when they can't even grasp the foundations yet: It's like trying to see the entire picture without looking at, or even understanding what the pixels are.
I guess it's important to so many people, because of the triviality of making conjectures...
I've learned that the most important results are not based on intuitive conjecture, but creative logical manipulations of results.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
No, you're not atheist, you're agnostic, an atheist is 100% convinced that there is no existence of god, whereas you aren't sure either way, making you agnostic.
O_o o_O
I don't know anyone that laughs at the Greek or Norse Gods anymore than they laugh at their own. You either know some incredibly ignorant people, or you're making gross generalisations based on yourself. There's no reason their religion is any more right than ours today, and I know very few 'believers' that would dispute that. Different times = different needs = different religions.
Do you actually know people who still worship Zeus? No, didn't think so. My point was the ancient Greeks, Romans, etc. truly believed in their gods and they turned out to be false.
Firstly, yes I do. I also know people who worship the Norse pantheon, and the Roman pantheon. So maybe your world is just a little too small compared to the real one.
Who has proven their Gods to be false? If their Gods are proven false then surely all Gods can be proven false, and yet we know that you cannot falsify the unfalsifiable. People converting to other belief systems does not mean the original ones were wrong, just that they prefer, or had better reason to align themselves with the new ones. A pluralist would even say they're worshipping exactly the same thing and it's totally irrelevant which Gods they pick.
I dont belive any religion is good, and i dont belive in any higher power. Coz i think the life is worth living not living it for death. If you get what i mean. If you walking around worried over death you are not livining your just worried over something in the end you do not control.
And why i think religion is bad is just that i havent seen anything good come out of it, just but hate and judgement.
Thats all i wanted to say, and yeah sorry for my bad english.
You do realize there is much more evidence for Osama bin laden's involvement in 9/11 then the existance of a deity, right?
in fact, you used a really, REALLY poor comparisson.
Do you know that there were actually 11 people suspected with the 9/11 attacks? Do you know that Bin Ladein has not been involved before 9/11 with a terrorist attack against innocent civilians? If there is more existence than what we know why did they produce a dubbed tape of Osama bin ladein saying he was behind 9/11? The more people look into 9/11 the more dubious one becomes, poor comparison...my ass.
everything2.com/e2node/Summary%2520of%2520evidence%2520against%2520Osama%2520bin%2520Laden%2520in%25209%252F11%2520terror%2520attacksThere is plenty of reason to believe Osama Bin laden was involved with 9-11. There is not a SHRED of evidence for the existance of a deity, and that's why your comparison is bad.
So, they still used a dubbed tape. It means the evidence was no where near good enough to point the finger, end of story.
We're all Geniuses. Most of us just don't know it.
You do realize there is much more evidence for Osama bin laden's involvement in 9/11 then the existance of a deity, right?
in fact, you used a really, REALLY poor comparisson.
Do you know that there were actually 11 people suspected with the 9/11 attacks? Do you know that Bin Ladein has not been involved before 9/11 with a terrorist attack against innocent civilians? If there is more existence than what we know why did they produce a dubbed tape of Osama bin ladein saying he was behind 9/11? The more people look into 9/11 the more dubious one becomes, poor comparison...my ass.
everything2.com/e2node/Summary%2520of%2520evidence%2520against%2520Osama%2520bin%2520Laden%2520in%25209%252F11%2520terror%2520attacksThere is plenty of reason to believe Osama Bin laden was involved with 9-11. There is not a SHRED of evidence for the existance of a deity, and that's why your comparison is bad.
So, they still used a dubbed tape. It means the evidence was no where near good enough to point the finger, end of story.
the issue is that you're trying to compare something with evidence and where the culprit has actually confirmed to be involved to something that has zero evidence, therefore your comparisson was wrong there, NOW it's end of story
You do realize there is much more evidence for Osama bin laden's involvement in 9/11 then the existance of a deity, right?
in fact, you used a really, REALLY poor comparisson.
Do you know that there were actually 11 people suspected with the 9/11 attacks? Do you know that Bin Ladein has not been involved before 9/11 with a terrorist attack against innocent civilians? If there is more existence than what we know why did they produce a dubbed tape of Osama bin ladein saying he was behind 9/11? The more people look into 9/11 the more dubious one becomes, poor comparison...my ass.
There is plenty of reason to believe Osama Bin laden was involved with 9-11. There is not a SHRED of evidence for the existance of a deity, and that's why your comparison is bad.
So, they still used a dubbed tape. It means the evidence was no where near good enough to point the finger, end of story.
the issue is that you're trying to compare something with evidence and where the culprit has actually confirmed to be involved to something that has zero evidence, therefore your comparisson was wrong there, NOW it's end of story
Listen mate there's just as much evidence that 9/11 was conspired, Michael Moor made a friggin documentary about it. All you need to do is google it, we can send each other links all day supporting the event just like this topic itself, hence it was a good comparison. You are just like the other people who suddenly have a facial expression like this
when you realise the government can actually NOT be telling the truth, American government is probably the most infamous with the Area 51 and War in Iraq fiasco which still makes me laugh to this day.
We're all Geniuses. Most of us just don't know it.
I think I am a GOD and that I created this world. You should all worship me.
It makes sense because everything is perceived, seen, felt from my perspective. The last thing I did before entering this world I created was to remove any knowledge of my GODliness and my having created this world so that I could truly experience living in it.
No, you're not atheist, you're agnostic, an atheist is 100% convinced that there is no existence of god, whereas you aren't sure either way, making you agnostic.
No, agnostics can also be convinced that there exists a god/gods. I doubt that there exists a god, but I don't accept that there necessarily is one.
That makes me a weak atheist, but an atheist nonetheless, or an agnostic atheist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism
But yeah, nice try...
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
You can believe in God and not adhere to a religion or authority.
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You can believe in God and not adhere to a religion or authority.
SIgh, the principles within basically all religions only cause problems when misunderstood. Racism is easily the worst problem on this earth, just look at the middle passage, that was pathetic...Problems "caused" by religion are peanuts compared to problems created via discrimination of many sorts.
We're all Geniuses. Most of us just don't know it.
Hi, yes I do believe in god and in fact i'm a MUSLIM. When people see this, i always get insulted because of it but I think that they don't truly know what Islam is about. Most people get their info from the news, from which Islam gets a lot of bashing because of terrorism. What most people don't bother to find out is that what these terrorists do is completely against Islam because they kill innocent people. Also I never read about people disproving Islam. It's usually Christianity that gets bashed. Well...I challenge some one to disprove Islam. I am strong in my faith because science has not been able to prove it wrong yet. Many scientists have become muslims after attempting to disprove it because they realise that they can't and it must be in fact the divine word from god. The Qur'an (Islamic holy book similar to the bible) has been proven by science for example:
“Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse” “And the mountains as pegs?” [Al-Qur’an 78:6-7] Its has only been recently proved that mountains have deep roots shaped like pegs...how can a illiterate man know this?
"If they can make Penicillin out of mouldy bread, they can sure make something out of you," - Muhammed Ali
Finally, someone who believes what I do.
Praise the almighty cheese!
I don't know anyone that laughs at the Greek or Norse Gods anymore than they laugh at their own. You either know some incredibly ignorant people, or you're making gross generalisations based on yourself. There's no reason their religion is any more right than ours today, and I know very few 'believers' that would dispute that. Different times = different needs = different religions.
Do you actually know people who still worship Zeus? No, didn't think so. My point was the ancient Greeks, Romans, etc. truly believed in their gods and they turned out to be false.
So we should stop believing in God because Zeus fell out of fashion? Sorry, just trying to clarify what you're saying.
Sigh...my point is that the current god will "fall out of fashion" just like the old ones.
I don't know anyone that laughs at the Greek or Norse Gods anymore than they laugh at their own. You either know some incredibly ignorant people, or you're making gross generalisations based on yourself. There's no reason their religion is any more right than ours today, and I know very few 'believers' that would dispute that. Different times = different needs = different religions.
Do you actually know people who still worship Zeus? No, didn't think so. My point was the ancient Greeks, Romans, etc. truly believed in their gods and they turned out to be false.
Firstly, yes I do. I also know people who worship the Norse pantheon, and the Roman pantheon. So maybe your world is just a little too small compared to the real one.
Who has proven their Gods to be false? If their Gods are proven false then surely all Gods can be proven false, and yet we know that you cannot falsify the unfalsifiable. People converting to other belief systems does not mean the original ones were wrong, just that they prefer, or had better reason to align themselves with the new ones. A pluralist would even say they're worshipping exactly the same thing and it's totally irrelevant which Gods they pick.
I'm sorry, I thought we were talking within the confines of the civilized world. I seriously doubt anyone on these forums believes the sun is pulled across the sky by a giant chariot...and I also thinks it's fair to say that particular god was proven false.
I don't know anyone that laughs at the Greek or Norse Gods anymore than they laugh at their own. You either know some incredibly ignorant people, or you're making gross generalisations based on yourself. There's no reason their religion is any more right than ours today, and I know very few 'believers' that would dispute that. Different times = different needs = different religions.
Do you actually know people who still worship Zeus? No, didn't think so. My point was the ancient Greeks, Romans, etc. truly believed in their gods and they turned out to be false.
So we should stop believing in God because Zeus fell out of fashion? Sorry, just trying to clarify what you're saying.
Sigh...my point is that the current god will "fall out of fashion" just like the old ones.
What is the current God?I think that the current God is the same that was around when people were following the religion of Zeus. I think it will be the same God that is around when these current religions evaporate.
I think you are putting all believers in God in the same type of categorical philosophy. We're not. I know people who believe in God who hate me for what I believe God is.
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I used to be really religious, ive been to countless churchs thru out my life, baptist, church of christ, jewish, and mormon. Everyone thinks they have the right answer. Someones going to be wrong and I think there all wrong. Im no longer religious and believe that there is no god. God was created by man as a form of control, do this and you goto heaven you dont do this you goto hell and burn. Man wrote the bible, the bible are storys nothing more. After 2,000 + years are society still believes in a god we have never seen. Also some questions to ask is, why does god let the things go on that happen in the world, like that earthquake in china that killed 80,000 people or what ever the ridiculous amount was. Why doesent god/jesus heal people today like with the miracles that were presented in the bible, in truth man heals man, science and technology pave the way for cures and discoveries. But I also think that some people couldnt handle not having religion in there life or some form of a higher power, they wouldnt be able to cope with life and they would wonder whats the purpose. Whats so hard to accept that your born, you live, and you die and I think most dont wanna accept that, because it gives them comfort that theres something at the end of this life.
A good documentary in my eyes to watch on christianity, that also talks about huge gaps in the biblical timeline.
www.thegodmovie.com/
I like Islam. You picked probably the weakest quote in there if I'm honest - I much prefer the one about the leech being the start of life.
Islam equally has some ****ing terrible quotes, even when in context within the Qur'an though, which is not a good thing, and i damn well hope those aren't ever 'proven' - it's worth mentioning, I have indeed read the Qur'an.
The Bible too has some pretty interesting 'prophetic' passages which have come to pass, though I don't have the bookmark for it anymore - I'll have a scrounge on google when I've got some more free time.
I stop liking Islam at the point where believers start to call this 'proof.' It's not proof, it's evidence, and quite circumstancial in the most part. I certainly think it means Islam has a LOT more weight to it than other religions, but I can't help think it still isn't irrefutable enough to justify belief in any particular deity. I've seen some pretty impressive feats with my own eyes, and I'm still not converted by them, so even a myriad of chance passages in a text proven right later by science are definately not enough to make me hop the fence just yet.
It's also worth mentioning, there's one very large problem with taking science from a holy book. Science can constantly change its substance based upon new evidence; a holy book cannot be updated, so whilst we may think we've got it all right at the moment, when we develop upon it and find we weren't 100% there in the first place, that's going to take a LOT of weight from Islam's claims.
My final point though, is you've once again applied the wrong burden of proof. No offence, but this is something I see muslims do A LOT, and i'm not sure why - I assume it's because of a common taught doctrine or something. You asked us to disprove Islam. Obviously this is impossible; you cannot falsify the unfalsifiable. The burden of proof is on you to prove Islam correct, as it is you who is making the unsubstantiated claim.
Exactly, religion misunderstood is a problem...not the religion itself. You have to be pretty stupid to blame the fundamentals of a religion for terrorism or other events which take place on this Earth.
We're all Geniuses. Most of us just don't know it.
Exactly, religion misunderstood is a problem...not the religion itself. You have to be pretty stupid to blame the fundamentals of a religion for terrorism or other events which take place on this Earth.
Of course Religion itself is a problem. It asks that you give your time (the only time you will ever have), your money, and your trust to something that is make-believe. In return, it gives, what?
A false sense of security and control over your life? Prayer in place of medical treatment. Prayer in place of elevating yourself through actual effort. Prayer in the belief that it is an actual safety net (Native Americans used to pray over their animal-skin covered shields in the belief that it would stop a bullet -- worked well. For the guy with the gun). Prayer is a wonderful way to do nothing and /feel/ like you've done something. And millions of people participate in it on a daily basis. What a waste of time. And, what a waste of a thank you. Thank the people who actually provide for you, not some invisible sky-daddy. "God, I'd like to thank you for this meal... not the people who grew the food and then cooked it and the employer who pays me so that I could buy it, and on and on and on..."
It lets you do bad things and 'ask for forgiveness', and just FEEL way down deep in your so-called-soul that yeah, everything is just fine with the world now. Once you're right with God you don't need to be right with your victim, right? God forgives you! All is well. Happens all the time, and it is pathetic and dodgy.
When you believe in something invisible and supernatural, then you can believe in anything. It is nearly a requirement. Magic? Sure! Ghosts? Sure! Hurricanes that wipe out evil, sinful gays? Sure! Laying on hands? Sure! Donating money for God's blessing? Sure! God killed your cat because you masturbated? Sure!
It is divisive. Period. It is another barrier for humans to overcome as they try and come together. It becomes another Us vs Them thing. "THEY believe <ridiculous thing>, while WE believe <ridiculous thing>! How can we possibly get along with them?!?" We already have racism, money, politics, patriotism, and a host of other divisions. We do not need religion to add to that list.
Did I mention the waste of time? How many man-hours have been wasted by the members of all of the religions of world? Billions? Trillions? I realize we're all masters of wasting time, but don't you think some of that might have led to an advance or two?
But what about all the good things religion has done? They feed the poor! They provide shelter for the homeless! They provide voting stations!
Fine. Those are great things. Now name something that only religion can do. Feed the poor? Provide shelter for the homeless? Give us a place for voting machines? Yeah, we don't need religion for that.
Religion does nothing but add to problems. We are better than any religion. I look forward to the day it is completely gone.
- LC
if you woke up on earth as an adult one day, alone except for the non-human life that surrounds you, and you had nothing but your vocabulary. no debates, discussions, society. no rememberance of yourself. it would be pretty easy to think that a God created everything you see. you might even call in instinctual.
be honest. giving the burden of proof i lay upon you holy bashers. what would you think if you woke up on earth, alone. what would you think of your surroundings? the sky, stars, sun, perfect eco-system? what would you think if you were alone?
religion gives God a bad name due to its man-made errors. religion is social engineering. one that i agree with.
who is to say that J.C. wasnt real? that he was not sent with a message that got skewered a bit by man? arent I the same as J.C. and he the same as God. Gods will and subsequently his message could have been placed in J.C. peace and understanding. I dont adhere to this paragraph nor do i distance myself from it.
"Repugnant is a creature who would squander
the ability to lift an eye to heaven,
conscious of his fleeting time here."
-I will subtlety invade your psyche-
Good thing we're out of the dark ages and... oh... who am I kidding? People are still ignorant twits who believe in fairy tales.
- LC
I bereave in God.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
yes. i did just say that. i believe it would be instinctual. did you just say your conscious was ignorant without any "outside influences"?
we seperate ourselves from most all other creatures in our world because of our brain and our ability to process thought and reason. if left alont and unfiltered, you would believe in god.
i think the only reason anyone bashes religion is due to its man made fallacies in the writings. humans always want a gold star on their papers for a job well done. a pat on the back. God on the other hand is in us all. where would you be without evolution I ask?
the argument is folly because God cannot be disproven. God has proven himself with your surroundings and your instincts.
God by definition is intelligent design in my books.
-I will subtlety invade your psyche-